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View Full Version : "Draft edge is not in Miami Dolphins’ favor" "Marshall Factor"



Skree
04-18-2011, 10:46 AM
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/04/18/2172622/draft-edge-is-not-in-miami-dolphins.html

The 1st thing that came to mind while reading this was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ5ob9B9yD4

NY8123
04-18-2011, 10:57 AM
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/04/18/2172622/draft-edge-is-not-in-miami-dolphins.html

The 1st thing that came to mind while reading this was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ5ob9B9yD4

Another Armando gem [sarcastic text, font size 3].

NYPhin24
04-18-2011, 11:04 AM
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/04/18/2172622/draft-edge-is-not-in-miami-dolphins.html#storylink=omni_popular

Does Armando ever write anything positive about the Dolphins? Not that anything he writes is good or accurate anyway.....case and point below

"By the time the Dolphins get to their second scheduled pick, the third-rounder that represents the 74th overall selection, the Patriots already could have picked five times, adding five players to Miami’s two."

I could be wrong but arent the Dolphins picking 79th in the 3rd round??


"The Dolphins will go to this coming draft with very little in the form of ammunition. They have one draft pick in the first round. They have one pick in the third round. And they have an appointment with their chiropractor in the second round." :ponder::err: just another ignorant and useless sentence

"The troubling thing is the outgunned Dolphins are expected to somehow make up ground on the Patriots in the standings while having half as many draft picks. Hey, it can happen. Don’t bicycles pass Ninja motorcycles on I-95 all the time?" this guy is a clown....


Armando even goes on to bring up the Marshall trade, get over it Armando two 2nd round picks for a top 10 WR (Top 5 with a good QB) is a steal, the chances of finding a Brandon Marshall type player and production in the 2nd round is slim so to give up even two 2nd's for a guarntee is worth it

Marshall factor
It could be argued the Dolphins invested wisely in surrendering their second-round picks last year. Marshall, after all, was solid in 2010 with 86 receptions for 1,014 yards and three touchdowns.

The only factor that decides whether the trade is holding its value today is whether the Dolphins could pick up equal value for Marshall. Would some team give the Dolphins two second-round picks for the receiver today?

And would the Dolphins hold Marshall in such high esteem as to never consider giving him up for multiple second-round picks in the first place?

NY8123
04-18-2011, 11:22 AM
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/04/18/2172622/draft-edge-is-not-in-miami-dolphins.html#storylink=omni_popular

Does Armando ever write anything positive about the Dolphins? Not that anything he writes is good or accurate anyway.....case and point below

"By the time the Dolphins get to their second scheduled pick, the third-rounder that represents the 74th overall selection, the Patriots already could have picked five times, adding five players to Miami’s two."

I could be wrong but arent the Dolphins picking 79th in the 3rd round??


"The Dolphins will go to this coming draft with very little in the form of ammunition. They have one draft pick in the first round. They have one pick in the third round. And they have an appointment with their chiropractor in the second round." :ponder::err: just another ignorant and useless sentence

"The troubling thing is the outgunned Dolphins are expected to somehow make up ground on the Patriots in the standings while having half as many draft picks. Hey, it can happen. Don’t bicycles pass Ninja motorcycles on I-95 all the time?" this guy is a clown....


Armando even goes on to bring up the Marshall trade, get over it Armando two 2nd round picks for a top 10 WR (Top 5 with a good QB) is a steal, the chances of finding a Brandon Marshall type player and production in the 2nd round is slim so to give up even two 2nd's for a guarntee is worth it

Marshall factor
It could be argued the Dolphins invested wisely in surrendering their second-round picks last year. Marshall, after all, was solid in 2010 with 86 receptions for 1,014 yards and three touchdowns.

The only factor that decides whether the trade is holding its value today is whether the Dolphins could pick up equal value for Marshall. Would some team give the Dolphins two second-round picks for the receiver today?

And would the Dolphins hold Marshall in such high esteem as to never consider giving him up for multiple second-round picks in the first place?

Do what I do and stop reading Armando's coulombs.

I hit my thumb with a hammer once and now I try not to do that anymore.

Skree
04-18-2011, 12:29 PM
Another Armando gem [sarcastic text, font size 3].No doubt.

Mod plz merge that other thread.

flynryan15
04-18-2011, 12:56 PM
Armando is a clown not the *** clown Omar is, but close! Marshall was a no brainer and I still make that trade, it is not the WRs fault his QB sucks in the redzone and still has no clue hoe to throw a back shoulder fade!

flynryan15
04-18-2011, 12:59 PM
This just in HackMando our second round picks have been Merling, Henne, White, Smith, and Misi. All of them together can't tie B Marsh's shoes.

j-off-her-doll
04-18-2011, 02:53 PM
Speaking of the draft, the Patriots are the most overrated team in the NFL.

normaniii
04-18-2011, 03:03 PM
Speaking of the draft, the Patriots are the most overrated team in the NFL.

Totally agree!

The biggest difference has been Bill & Brady......forget the draft.

bigvince75
04-18-2011, 03:16 PM
Speaking of the draft, the Patriots are the most overrated team in the NFL.

06-08 was a bad run outside of Mayo, Gostkowski and maybe Meriweather, althought the past 2 drafts have been much improved, and overall the Patriots were one of the better drafting teams of the past decade. If I had to go with the most overrated drafting team it would be Baltimore.

HurriPhin
04-18-2011, 03:20 PM
If I had to go with the most overrated drafting team it would be Baltimore.

? explain.

bigvince75
04-18-2011, 03:28 PM
? explain.

For all the hype Ozzie's drafting has gotten, his team is still second fiddle to Pittsburgh after all these years and he's not even the best GM in the AFCN. His drafts during the mid 2000s were mediocre and his 2010 draft doesn't look all that good, which is ironic considering how pretty much every analyst said the Ravens had the best draft last year. He's a good, quality GM, but not anywhere near the best imo.

flynryan15
04-18-2011, 03:34 PM
For all the hype Ozzie's drafting has gotten, his team is still second fiddle to Pittsburgh after all these years and he's not even the best GM in the AFCN. His drafts during the mid 2000s were mediocre and his 2010 draft doesn't look all that good, which is ironic considering how pretty much every analyst said the Ravens had the best draft last year. He's a good, quality GM, but not anywhere near the best imo.

So other NFL teams draft class het one year to pan out and if they don't it is not that good? The Dolphins draft classes however get 3-5 years before they are written off!

Face it if we had Ozzie pulling the trigger in our war room over the last decade we would have a franchise QB, a dominant oline and a nasty D! Instead we have a 3 ring circus.

bigvince75
04-18-2011, 04:25 PM
What I meant to say was that his most recent draft class hasn't lived up to the hype it received. Right after the draft ended everyone annointed them draft champs because they got 2 supposed first round talents in the second round, who were both non-factors this past season, although that whole class could definitely step up and improve. My main point was that for all the hype Ozzie's drafting has gotten, his team has under-achieved for the past decade. He's not a bad GM by any means, but he's not even the best GM in his own division. There are a several GMs who I would consider better than him at the moment.

bigvince75
04-18-2011, 04:28 PM
I've changed my mind, it's a tie between the Colts or Chargers for the most overrated drafting team. Polian has ignored the teams' needs for years now and AJ Smith hasn't put together a good draft since the mid 2000s.

Wildbill3
04-18-2011, 04:52 PM
wow who would think we don't have as much of an edge in this draft as say the patsies or any other team that has at least 1 pick in each of the first 3 rounds. what utter garbage and just shows how slow news is right now.

flynryan15
04-18-2011, 04:57 PM
wow who would think we don't have as much of an edge in this draft as say the patsies or any other team that has at least 1 pick in each of the first 3 rounds. what utter garbage and just shows how slow news is right now.

Just another Pulitzer worthy piece written by our very own Armando.

fin13
04-18-2011, 05:16 PM
Keep in mind that the Fins recovered their 2nd pick last year, so, so far the cost of Marshall is a second round pick.
Now you could use a 1st rounder to pick Ginn, oops we did that.
Miami will contend soon enough it's not just draft picks that you can build a team with and besides the Pats with all those picks haven't done so well either.
Take a look at the Jets

miamiz19d
04-18-2011, 05:48 PM
i wish i had the vikings gm, he really knows how to draft.... /wrist
(jumping out the building before the flames)

normaniii
04-18-2011, 06:29 PM
Most underrated GM is .....Gene Smith Jacksonville Jags.

Spesh
04-18-2011, 07:52 PM
Speaking of the draft, the Patriots are the most overrated team in the NFL.

Completely agree. And Armando continues to do enhance his reputation as an idiot.




The truth is the Patriots, known for making better draft choices than most teams, must make twice as many mistakes while the Dolphins are perfect in their selections. That’s the only way for Miami to simply maintain status quo.



Huh? The Patriots get heaped undeserved praise because they win games using veterans while having alot of draft picks. Their draft picks are quantity over quality. Sorry, but that doesnt scream "better draft choices". The teams that have the best drafts(and lead to the best results) are ones that balance quality and quantity. The Packers are a great example of it. They usually grab the best player available to them, but they do not rule out trading up. Heck, they traded with New England in '09. Who got the better deal: Packers acquired Clay Matthews, New England acquired Darius Butler and Brandon Tate. Number of players wise, New England came out on top. Green Bay got an impact player who directly helped them win a superbowl.

New England finally got a kind of impact player last year in Devin McCourty. Yet, it took them 3 tries to lock down a single position. Butler in '09 and Terrence Wheatley in '08. Had Miami burned 3 first and second round picks on a single position, we would be called the Lions. Instead, the Patriots are praised.

Last 5 drafts for New England's first and second round picks(the rounds Armando is bemoaning):
2006: Laurence Maroney, Chad Jackson.
2007: Brandon Meriweather.
2008: Jarod Mayo, Terrence Wheatley.
2009: Pat Chung, Ron Brace, Darius Butler, Sebastian Vollmer.
2010: Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Jermaine Cunningham, Brandon Spikes.

'06 was a complete bust. Meriweather was benched. Wheatley is on the cutting block(if he hasnt been cut already). Brace and Butler have been invisible(at least i haven't seen them at all). Spikes and Cunningham a decent amount of tackles, but were hardly impact players. No one on that lists jumps out and screams "we gotta watch out for this guy!".
The Patriots offensive line disintegrated this offseason. Their defensive line was already thin. They have no outside linebackers(pass rushers). Alot of those problems have been around for years. None of them have been fixed. Oh, and they are already talking about trading away more picks. Personally, i love it.

The minute Brady is out, that team falls apart. Side note, for my underrated GM: Mark Dominik of the Bucs, though he is now getting some well deserved credit.

bigvince75
04-18-2011, 09:36 PM
Completely agree. And Armando continues to do enhance his reputation as an idiot.




Huh? The Patriots get heaped undeserved praise because they win games using veterans while having alot of draft picks. Their draft picks are quantity over quality. Sorry, but that doesnt scream "better draft choices". The teams that have the best drafts(and lead to the best results) are ones that balance quality and quantity. The Packers are a great example of it. They usually grab the best player available to them, but they do not rule out trading up. Heck, they traded with New England in '09. Who got the better deal: Packers acquired Clay Matthews, New England acquired Darius Butler and Brandon Tate. Number of players wise, New England came out on top. Green Bay got an impact player who directly helped them win a superbowl.

New England finally got a kind of impact player last year in Devin McCourty. Yet, it took them 3 tries to lock down a single position. Butler in '09 and Terrence Wheatley in '08. Had Miami burned 3 first and second round picks on a single position, we would be called the Lions. Instead, the Patriots are praised.

Last 5 drafts for New England's first and second round picks(the rounds Armando is bemoaning):
2006: Laurence Maroney, Chad Jackson.
2007: Brandon Meriweather.
2008: Jarod Mayo, Terrence Wheatley.
2009: Pat Chung, Ron Brace, Darius Butler, Sebastian Vollmer.
2010: Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Jermaine Cunningham, Brandon Spikes.

'06 was a complete bust. Meriweather was benched. Wheatley is on the cutting block(if he hasnt been cut already). Brace and Butler have been invisible(at least i haven't seen them at all). Spikes and Cunningham a decent amount of tackles, but were hardly impact players. No one on that lists jumps out and screams "we gotta watch out for this guy!".
The Patriots offensive line disintegrated this offseason. Their defensive line was already thin. They have no outside linebackers(pass rushers). Alot of those problems have been around for years. None of them have been fixed. Oh, and they are already talking about trading away more picks. Personally, i love it.

The minute Brady is out, that team falls apart. Side note, for my underrated GM: Mark Dominik of the Bucs, though he is now getting some well deserved credit.

what? Sebastian Vollmer was an all-pro last year and one of the biggest steals of the 2009 draft. He's had a better career than Michael Oher with a fraction of the hype. Light will most likely be back and I'm hopeful they can work things out with Mankins. Regardless of that, the team had found success with olinemen in later rounds and obviously protecting Brady is a top priority of the coaching staff. As for problems being around for years, OLB became apparent during the 09 season and dline in 2010; and both will continue to be addressed in the upcoming draft.

As for Brady leaving and the future of the team, as long as the Krafts run the Patriots NE will field a competitive football squad. It's been that way for nearly 2 decades.

CANDolphan
04-18-2011, 11:34 PM
Uh wow

Let's see... Ron Brace has looked really good when he's gotten the chance to play. Brandon Spikes has looked really, really good. Gronkowski is a stud. Mayo... nothing needs to be said. He's an awesome ILB. Sebastian Volmer is an awesome RT and a really good LT. He's probably a better LT than Matt Light to be honest. Meriweather and Chung are very good young safeties...

They are definitely one of the better drafting teams in the NFL year in and year out.

ChambersWI
04-19-2011, 10:18 AM
Merriweather is good, but a tad overrated right now. Even the most hardcore Pat fans admit he shouldn't have been a pro bowler. The Pats last 2 drafts have been solid. They may not be drafting a lot of pro bowlers, but they are drafting guys that will keep them in the top half of the league for a long time (that is not to say that some of these guys aren't pro bowlers, point I'm making is when you draft somebody they don't all have to be all-pros).

As for overrated draft teams. I don't really consider the Colts that good. They'll strike gold with a few picks that nobody really thought about (Bethea, Sessions, to a lesser extent Freeney who was considered a reach, ect), but they really just keep drafting their strengths.

Ravens aren't really overrated when it comes to drafting defense (they are always getting solid young defensive players) and are decent at drafting OL, but other skills positions they have struggled to fill via draft.

I'll agree with the Chargers being overrated. They had a great draft in 04 getting Rivers,Olshanksy, Hardwick, Phillips,Turner, and Kaeding and getting Merriman (for a few years he was dominant), Castillo, Jackson, and Sproles. But since then his drafts haven't been that good. He's drafted some solid players in Antoine Cason and Erin Weddle, but haven't done much since.

As for crappy drafting teams? Denver has struggled for awhile, Washington is pretty bad, Carolina is hit or miss.

IMO we are a middle of the pack drafting team. We draft good players, and we draft duds. Aside from Jake Long we haven't drafted top notch players in awhile (though Langford and Solia are top notch 3-4 players IMO, and Vontae could be elite) but we've drafted some solid contributors. The only really bad pick we've made recently is Pat White.

Now before the Trifecta got here we were probably one of, if not the, worst drafting teams in the league.

enJeppesen
04-19-2011, 11:27 AM
Merriweather sucks

Spesh
04-19-2011, 12:24 PM
what? Sebastian Vollmer was an all-pro last year and one of the biggest steals of the 2009 draft. He's had a better career than Michael Oher with a fraction of the hype. Light will most likely be back and I'm hopeful they can work things out with Mankins. Regardless of that, the team had found success with olinemen in later rounds and obviously protecting Brady is a top priority of the coaching staff. As for problems being around for years, OLB became apparent during the 09 season and dline in 2010; and both will continue to be addressed in the upcoming draft.

As for Brady leaving and the future of the team, as long as the Krafts run the Patriots NE will field a competitive football squad. It's been that way for nearly 2 decades.

Stephen Neal retired, Logan Mankins has flat refused to resign with the Patriots and skipped a chunk of last season(was prepared to sit the entire season before the NFLPA talked him out of it), and Matt Light is a free agent. There are questions at left tackle and both guard spots. How any of that could be considered a good thing is beyond me. Vollmer is a fine player, i never said otherwise, but one guy cannot play 3(or 4) positions.

The article spoke about how amazing the Patriots are at drafting. If those problems "became apparent" so recently, shouldn't your amazing front office have already had young talent waiting and ready? Part of a GM's(or whatever title) job is to have fixes ready for tommorows problems. The Patriots certainly haven't lacked the draft picks or the solid foundation. Its not like they haven't taken players for those spots. Those players just haven't worked out. I didnt even post the 3rd rounders such as Kevin O'Connell. We can knitpick the word "years" if you would like, but the facts remain.

For the last 5 or 6 years, the strength of the Patriots has been there offense. The almost historic 2007 was clearly a product of that offense, with some good play by a handful of defense players. Since losing Asante Samuel, Vrabel, Seymour(and a few others) that defense, that was already looking old and shakey, has steadily slipped up. So who has replaced some of those mentioned players? I posted the draft picks, which one would you say dominates your defense and makes the offense dictate to what you do? Which one has had a Clay Matthews type of impact? I maintain none of them. The proof is in the pudding.

The Patriots are who they have been for the last decade. Great quarterback play with key veterans brought in to a flexible system. 3 superbowl rings shows youve had success. Belicheat has done a fine job bringing in cast off players and giving them a jump start. But to sit here and suggest they are masters of the draft is absurd at this point. At the start of the season it will be 7 seasons since the last Patriots ring. Part of that is due to the inability to bring in fresh blood. And again, its not like you guys haven't had enough chances.
2 decades ago the Patriots were one of the worst teams in the NFL. Worst results, worst run, you name it. It took Bill Parcells to turn it around...after which your owner ran him off. You then had a 4 year stretch with each year worst then the last, despite having 2 later proven good coaches(Pete Carroll and Bill Belicheat). Tom Brady took over in the 5th year of that stretch and suddenly you were superbowl contenders. So yeah, color me skeptical when it comes to success after Brady leaves.

Spesh
04-19-2011, 12:29 PM
Uh wow

Let's see... Ron Brace has looked really good when he's gotten the chance to play. Brandon Spikes has looked really, really good. Gronkowski is a stud. Mayo... nothing needs to be said. He's an awesome ILB. Sebastian Volmer is an awesome RT and a really good LT. He's probably a better LT than Matt Light to be honest. Meriweather and Chung are very good young safeties...

They are definitely one of the better drafting teams in the NFL year in and year out.

Yes, everything the Patriots touch turns to gold and no draft pick has ever turned out bad after they drafted them.

Now, back to reality, i highlighted the part that shows you to be mistaken. Meriweather was not only benched multiple times last year, he was on the cutting block before the lockout. Its really not a stretch to say the dispute between the owners and players saved his job. Taken from a Patriots site:



Peacemaker or not, Meriweather should be on his way out of New England.
For next season, Meriweather’s salary will jump from $650,000 to $1.65 million.
Sure, Meriweather’s salary is pretty low for a Pro Bowler, but that $1 million could definitely be used somewhere else.
Over Meriweather’s four year career, he has made the Pro Bowl twice. But, allow me to break the news to you: the Pro Bowl is a joke and on top of it, he was only named to the roster due to injuries to players ahead of him.
Meriweather was benched multiple times last season, and has seen his playing time fall dramatically over the past two seasons. With so much talent, you’d expect the player to have been on a steady incline with production, but it seems that Meriweather has just plateaued.
He is not a feared safety, like many fans think. He is not a head-hunter.
He is just careless, reckless, and overall, for a lack of a better term, football stupid.


http://www.patriotsplus.net/?p=1089

bigvince75
04-19-2011, 01:13 PM
Kraft didn't "run"Parcells out. Parcells quit on the team when Kraft tried to reign in his draft power. Parcells was opposed to drafting Terry Glenn and had the famous "groceries" speech after that. The reason the team declined in the late 90s was because they were in cap hell. and Pete Carrol definitely isn't a good coach by any means.

as for the drafts and filling needs, it sucks that players like wheatley and butler didn't pan out, but they found the replacement for Asante with McCourty this past year and with Leigh Bodden returning the CB position will be much improved, as it would have been in 2010 had Bodden been healthy. They went from the worst CB tandem in the league back in 08 to a having a chance at one of the best in the league this coming season. They ignored the olb position for a while due to the veteran presence, but I believe that and the dline will continue to be addressed in this upcoming draft.

I agree that NE was an overrated drafting team from 06-08, but in the early part of the decade they were one of the best in the business and their past 2 drafts have looked very promising so far.

Spesh
04-19-2011, 02:37 PM
Kraft didn't "run"Parcells out. Parcells quit on the team when Kraft tried to reign in his draft power. Parcells was opposed to drafting Terry Glenn and had the famous "groceries" speech after that. The reason the team declined in the late 90s was because they were in cap hell. and Pete Carrol definitely isn't a good coach by any means.

as for the drafts and filling needs, it sucks that players like wheatley and butler didn't pan out, but they found the replacement for Asante with McCourty this past year and with Leigh Bodden returning the CB position will be much improved, as it would have been in 2010 had Bodden been healthy. They went from the worst CB tandem in the league back in 08 to a having a chance at one of the best in the league this coming season. They ignored the olb position for a while due to the veteran presence, but I believe that and the dline will continue to be addressed in this upcoming draft.

I agree that NE was an overrated drafting team from 06-08, but in the early part of the decade they were one of the best in the business and their past 2 drafts have looked very promising so far.

And Parcells was brought in to build a winning team. The team was in chaos, they brought in Parcells, he built a team that went to the Superbowl. After they showed success, Kraft tried to rein him in and alienated him in the process. How is that not running him off? "Oh hey, thanks for saving my team, now get out of the way". Call it what you will, Parcells left the Patriots because of Kraft.
Pete Carroll has won more playoff games in a single season then the Patriots have since losing the 2007 Superbowl. This was after his success in college. While im not the biggest Carroll fan, he has made the Seahawks better then what they were. Then again, i shouldnt be surprised that Carroll, who has had more success then the Pats when it matters recently, is considered a bad coach while Bilichick is still considered a genius.

Again, any other team burning a first and 2 second round picks on a single position three years in a row would be crucified. You yourself brought up how they needed to bring in a free agent(actually 2 free agents, but Shawn Springs is gone). Miami was mocked after we drafted Jared Odrick 2 years after Philip Merling. Thats with the fact that the Odrick pick was very clearly a "best player available" type of selection. Yet the Patriots are not only excused for busting on players, but praised. But yes, they eventually replaced Samuel. 3 years later. Again, this is suppose to impress me? 3 or 4 years down the road they will hit on a player for a position that needs help immediately? They deserve to be called great for that? "Hey, this team has a very glaring need, so 4 years down the line they will fix it. Brilliant! A+ draft!".

With the exception of possibly Vollmer, New England hasn't drafted a player I'd personally worry about in years. Perhaps since Vince Wilfork. Getting a "quality" player or two once in a draft class(in which you have many, many more picks then other teams) is not something that screams "dominate". Teams like the Steelers and Packers have shown you can alternate between quantity of picks and quality players. Even Miami has gotten some impact players in the first round. Yet, New England lands a "solid" prospect(all the while missing on their other picks) and they are considered among the best in the NFL. No thanks.

bigvince75
04-19-2011, 02:53 PM
Kraft tried to reign in Parcells before the 1996 season. Parcells wanted anyone but Terry Glenn but ended up not getting his way. Had Parcells gotten his wish the team wouldn't have made the SB that year because Glenn became a huge factor in the offense.