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View Full Version : Why do Sparano's Miami Dolphins match up so well against Rex Ryan's NY Jets?



SkapePhin
05-05-2011, 07:45 PM
Rex Ryan is 1-3 vs. Sparano. His only victory came down to the wire.

Ryan's team seems to perform pretty well in the playoffs, but struggles against the 7-9 Dolphins? What gives?

endorPHINS72
05-05-2011, 07:46 PM
Tony Sparano is just that good.

JC
05-05-2011, 08:02 PM
Because he's the most interesting man in the world.

Built2Win
05-05-2011, 08:14 PM
Because our corners can shut them down and we have wake and dansby..
One game last year Ted Ginn single hand-idly won the game for the fins!
The week b4 that game bob Kuchenberg ignited a big spark underneath the kid saying
he has no heart is a wuss and then he catches the prettiest bomb of hennes career for a touchdown!
and runs in 2 touch backs for touchdowns..
see criticism is a good thing some people need it to be better
constant cheer leading isn't going to make this a better team.

dolpns13
05-05-2011, 08:33 PM
Give it time.

Kistner10
05-05-2011, 08:40 PM
For as much as everyone hates Sparano's 3 yards and a cloud of dust, the Jets are built the same way. Both are defenses are built to stop the run with strong pass rushes to stop teams on 3rd down(Wake for us, Ryan's blitzes for the Jets), Strong rushing attacks with inexpierenced turnover prone QB's. The Jets are built to physically manhandle teams but they have a hard time doing that against us. Jet Dolphin games usually can turn on one or two big plays(Ted Ginn both games two years ago, Braylon Edwards catch against Jason Allen). We just match up well against them.

Xeticus
05-05-2011, 09:09 PM
The other thing is that the Dolphins don't always play up to their talent level. The Dolphins have a lot of talented players, definitely more than their record suggests. Sparano is a mediocre coach who can't always get the best out of his players.

Our guys HATE the Jets though and they always, always play all out against them. Our guys do well despite Sparano not because of him. I'm not hating on Sparano but he hasn't proven to be the world's greatest coach yet. I think he's good but not great and I think this franchise isn't going any further with his as HC.

67Stang
05-05-2011, 09:37 PM
It's the AFC East, we all play each other tough!

Dolphins101
05-05-2011, 09:49 PM
Rex can't handel Tony's fist pumps.

DolfanISS
05-05-2011, 10:05 PM
Well we used to even match up well vs NE but they handed us our ***** twice last year.

Namor
05-05-2011, 10:45 PM
The Jets can't handle field goals?

JC
05-05-2011, 11:06 PM
I can't believe nobody has said this, but because the Jets are overrated?

NYPhinzFan
05-05-2011, 11:17 PM
I can't believe nobody has said this, but because the Jets are overrated?

I don't entirely agree with you on this. As someone said above, we are built almost identical to each other in terms of style of play (up through last year), but here's the biggest difference between the two teams: the Jets almost always find a way to win close games. We had 4 close games this season that we lost, we win those games, we're 11-5 and a playoff team; The Jets find a way to win those games.

Ruby2
05-05-2011, 11:18 PM
Divisional games are usually tough, outside of having to play the Bills.

JC
05-05-2011, 11:28 PM
I don't entirely agree with you on this. As someone said above, we are built almost identical to each other in terms of style of play (up through last year), but here's the biggest difference between the two teams: the Jets almost always find a way to win close games. We had 4 close games this season that we lost, we win those games, we're 11-5 and a playoff team; The Jets find a way to win those games.

With how stacked that team was, not winning a super bowl was underachieving.

MisiDressing
05-05-2011, 11:28 PM
Why???????

Two words: Fist Pumps!!!!

Ruby2
05-05-2011, 11:31 PM
With how stacked that team was, not winning a super bowl was underachieving.

Really?

Packers and Steelers had just as much talent imo.

NYPhinzFan
05-05-2011, 11:38 PM
With how stacked that team was, not winning a super bowl was underachieving.

That's a far different tune from being overrated. I'm by far pro-jets, but despite their young erratic QB, they have had back to back AFC championship appearances. Credit is due even tho I'm a fins fan. But in regards to the topic, we still own the record against them even though the rest of the AFC can't seem to keep them out of the conf championship game. We're not as far away as people make it seem. If we can win the close games the way the Jets can, we can make a push for the playoffs.

Kistner10
05-06-2011, 12:26 AM
I don't entirely agree with you on this. As someone said above, we are built almost identical to each other in terms of style of play (up through last year), but here's the biggest difference between the two teams: the Jets almost always find a way to win close games. We had 4 close games this season that we lost, we win those games, we're 11-5 and a playoff team; The Jets find a way to win those games.

I think we are close though, We're pretty solid across the board. I wouldn't be surprised if we swapped places with the Jets.

JB1089
05-06-2011, 12:28 AM
The first game the Dolphins just outplayed the Jets.

The second game was decided by poor tackling and kick coverage by the Jets and some nice moves by Ginn.

The 3rd game the Jets outplayed the Dolphins for most of the game and the Dolphins failed to capitalize on some opportunities to steal a win late.

The 4th game, both teams were terrible. The Jets had twice as many 1st downs, twice as many yards, and fewer turnovers, but couldn't make the key plays. Your punter won the game for you by continually booming punt after punt from deep in your own territory and not allowing the Jets to get good field position. Also, there was this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BggMrISdRIo

I know, drops happen, but that one was one of the worst I can remember.

jtsacksyou
05-06-2011, 12:48 AM
Divisional games are usually tough, outside of having to play the Bills.

In 2 games we outscored the bills by a combined total of 2 points. Against them we were 1-1. Lets not act like we sweep them every year or something, we haven't swept the bills for the last 2 or 3 years.

CusePhinFan
05-06-2011, 01:17 AM
The first game the Dolphins just outplayed the Jets.

The second game was decided by poor tackling and kick coverage by the Jets and some nice moves by Ginn.

The 3rd game the Jets outplayed the Dolphins for most of the game and the Dolphins failed to capitalize on some opportunities to steal a win late.

The 4th game, both teams were terrible. The Jets had twice as many 1st downs, twice as many yards, and fewer turnovers, but couldn't make the key plays. Your punter won the game for you by continually booming punt after punt from deep in your own territory and not allowing the Jets to get good field position. Also, there was this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BggMrISdRIo

I know, drops happen, but that one was one of the worst I can remember.

So what you are saying is that your offense isn't that good either when the opposing team defends the run well.

Predaphin
05-06-2011, 01:27 AM
Rex Ryan is scared of Fist pumps

Travis34
05-06-2011, 03:01 AM
It's the AFC East, we all play each other tough!

This sums it up well!

sm0kinfins
05-06-2011, 03:54 AM
24 posts and still no sign of junc?

Where's the spin?

Jetsfan0099
05-06-2011, 06:55 AM
Rex Ryan is 1-3 vs. Sparano. His only victory came down to the wire.

Ryan's team seems to perform pretty well in the playoffs, but struggles against the 7-9 Dolphins? What gives?


Why say that Rex's only win came down to the wire when all the games that were played came down to the wire between the Jets and Dolphins? They had bad luck vs the Dolphins though, like Ted Ginn actually catching a long TD to beat them one time, then the next time Ginn running back 2 KR for TDs and then a defensive TD return. Then the next loss Holmes dropping an easy TD. But I always expect a close game when the Jets/Dolphins play each other.

Valandui
05-06-2011, 07:14 AM
24 posts and still no sign of junc?

Where's the spin?
Scratching my head at that a little myself.

Nublar7
05-06-2011, 07:36 AM
But I always expect a close game when the Jets/Dolphins play each other.Close game, but the Dolphins win.

Sparano owns Ryan, and the Jets for that matter. Sparano is 3-1 against Ryan and 4-2 against the Jets.

Akronfinfan36
05-06-2011, 09:12 AM
Where's 'junc'?

Jetsfan0099
05-06-2011, 09:24 AM
Close game, but the Dolphins win.

Sparano owns Ryan, and the Jets for that matter. Sparano is 3-1 against Ryan and 4-2 against the Jets.


Sparano doesn't really own Ryan... Rex is a much better football coach than Sparano is, just that Sparano has gotten some lucky breaks in these close games to win. If he actually had brilliant game plans and out coaches Rex, then he owns him.

The Dolphins are not a team that is going to get blown out much because they play conservative not to lose style, so they keep turnovers down and don't beat themselves much. And now the Dolphins defense is pretty good.

The Jets/Dolphins will probably split again this season between the 2 games.

DisturbedShifty
05-06-2011, 09:52 AM
This thread is just troll bait. Pure and simple.

Nublar7
05-06-2011, 09:58 AM
Sparano doesn't really own Ryan... Rex is a much better football coach than Sparano is, just that Sparano has gotten some lucky breaks in these close games to win. If he actually had brilliant game plans and out coaches Rex, then he owns him. Ryan is better? Maybe, but it is debatable. You have to remember that Ryan inherited a 9-7 team, while Sparano inherited a 1-15 team, with one of the least talented rosters in NFL history. Ryan has taken them to the AFC Championship game(both losses), but lets not forget he had a lot more to work with since day one. Head to head Miami does have the upper hand on the Jets. Whether it be talent, coaching, confidence, etc., that is up for debate. All we do know is that four of the past five games have gone the way of the Dolphins. At what point does a streak like that get credit instead of picking excuses to cover it up?



The Jets/Dolphins will probably split again this season between the 2 games.Maybe, but if any team has a chance at sweeping the other, Miami is more likely to sweep the Jets. Recent history points to that.

rev kev
05-06-2011, 10:15 AM
Sparano doesn't really own Ryan... Rex is a much better football coach than Sparano is, just that Sparano has gotten some lucky breaks in these close games to win. If he actually had brilliant game plans and out coaches Rex, then he owns him.

The Dolphins are not a team that is going to get blown out much because they play conservative not to lose style, so they keep turnovers down and don't beat themselves much. And now the Dolphins defense is pretty good.

The Jets/Dolphins will probably split again this season between the 2 games. Henne was TO machine what you taklkin bout Willis?

nyjunc
05-06-2011, 10:19 AM
Rex Ryan is 1-3 vs. Sparano. His only victory came down to the wire.

Ryan's team seems to perform pretty well in the playoffs, but struggles against the 7-9 Dolphins? What gives?

If you are going to note the only win came down to the wire you must also not that all 3 of Miami's wins have come down to the wire and the largest margin of victory in the 4 games was the Jets 8 pt win last year.

Miami is not a bad team, they can play w/ pretty much anyone. They had some breaks go their way and capitalized in those 3 wins. All 4 games btw the 2 could have gone either way, one of the wins Miami had THREE non offensive TDs and won by just 5, last year in a game that set offesinsive football back 100 years they won by 4 and Holmes dropped a wide open TD pass. The Jets are clearly the better team but Miami can play w/ anyone for a game, their problems have been focusing against the average/bad teams.

rev kev
05-06-2011, 10:21 AM
Both teams are set up identically but the Jets can run the ball with anyone back there - we cannot and that impacts QB play - Mark didn't pay for his poor throws last year - Henne was a TO machine and paid dearly and Mark's errant throws weren't picked off all season let alone us

The kicking game is however ours - woo -hoo!!

nyjunc
05-06-2011, 10:22 AM
Ryan is better? Maybe, but it is debatable. You have to remember that Ryan inherited a 9-7 team, while Sparano inherited a 1-15 team, with one of the least talented rosters in NFL history. Ryan has taken them to the AFC Championship game(both losses), but lets not forget he had a lot more to work with since day one. Head to head Miami does have the upper hand on the Jets. Whether it be talent, coaching, confidence, etc., that is up for debate. All we do know is that four of the past five games have gone the way of the Dolphins. At what point does a streak like that get credit instead of picking excuses to cover it up?


Maybe, but if any team has a chance at sweeping the other, Miami is more likely to sweep the Jets. Recent history points to that.

Rex inherited a team that was 9-7 against one of the easiest scheds that has ever been assembled and he lost a HOF QB.

We all know Miami had much more talent than 1-15.

It's not even debateable who the better coach is. rex in 2 years as a HC has 2 title game trips and 4 road playoff wins, Sparano has never been part of a playoff win EVER whether as a HC or ***'t.


4 of 5 is nice but there's just the one sweep in there preventing the series from being 3-3 the past 3 years instead of 4-2 Miami.

Tunaphish429
05-06-2011, 10:48 AM
Matchups, Any given sunday.....

ROADRUNNER
05-06-2011, 11:25 AM
Just god dam luck................

Nublar7
05-06-2011, 11:27 AM
Just god dam luck................
One game is luck, heck I will give you two games. Four out of five? There is much more to it than just luck.

DphinBillkiller
05-06-2011, 11:28 AM
The force is with the Phins!

ROADRUNNER
05-06-2011, 11:44 AM
One game is luck, heck I will give you two games. Four out of five? There is much more to it than just luck.

Im not down on phins..........im just saying.

Locke
05-06-2011, 11:46 AM
Chad Henne's one strength is playing against blitz-happy defenses, especially those that play single-high looks. That is Rex Ryan's defense to a T. For as much of a defensive genius as everyone claims Rex to be, you would think he would have learned that and played the bracket coverages that Henne struggles with. But he doesn't, he is too stubborn for that. Especially last year, there was absolutely no reason for him to pull that safety down into the box; our run game was atrocious. He did it anyways, and Henne torched that defense. If Henning didn't go super conservative with his playcalling whenever we were in the Meadowlands, we'd probably put up a lot more points in those meetings. Not saying we would have for sure, but anyone who didn't see a difference in aggressiveness at home and when we were in NY wasn't watching the games.

Defensively, our defense matches up very well with their offense. They are a run-first team that thrives off of the play action. That first game we were missing Crowder and Smith was out, and whether people like it or not, that is why their offense was able to move the ball so well. That second game, Crowder was in and Smith was actually playing well and they couldn't get much of anything going. We shut down their run, which took away the threat of the playaction. It's no surprise the entire offense stalled. That first game they were the running the ball pretty well, which made the play action pretty effective. That and Jason Allen was a joke of a corner. If you shut down the Jet's run, you take away the most dangerous part of that offense. The Phin's defense is one of the few that is able to do that without bringing a safety down into the box.

All of you guys saying blaming that loss to the Phins on the Santonio Holmes drop are completely forgetting that it happened early in the third quarter if I remember right. It would have been a COMPLETELY different game if we were down. We went into retard-conservative mode with Henning's playcalling because we were up. If we were down, it still would have been retard-conservative mode, but he would have actively been trying to get some points. You guys lost that game because Sanchez played like sh*t against our defense, bottom line.

hemidemon
05-06-2011, 11:54 AM
If you are going to note the only win came down to the wire you must also not that all 3 of Miami's wins have come down to the wire and the largest margin of victory in the 4 games was the Jets 8 pt win last year.

Miami is not a bad team, they can play w/ pretty much anyone. They had some breaks go their way and capitalized in those 3 wins. All 4 games btw the 2 could have gone either way, one of the wins Miami had THREE non offensive TDs and won by just 5, last year in a game that set offesinsive football back 100 years they won by 4 and Holmes dropped a wide open TD pass. The Jets are clearly the better team but Miami can play w/ anyone for a game, their problems have been focusing against the average/bad teams.

Everything you said is correct except the part about the Jets clearly being the better team. I'd say they are pretty even. The Jets overachieved making the AFC Championship. Sanchez is way over-rated. I'm not saying the Jets suck, b/c they don't. Thank Rex for getting you there. I can't stand Rex, but I have to give credit where credit is due. He is a very good coach. He has that team believing.

nyjunc
05-06-2011, 11:55 AM
Chad Henne's one strength is playing against blitz-happy defenses, especially those that play single-high looks. That is Rex Ryan's defense to a T. For as much of a defensive genius as everyone claims Rex to be, you would think he would have learned that and played the bracket coverages that Henne struggles with. But he doesn't, he is too stubborn for that. Especially last year, there was absolutely no reason for him to pull that safety down into the box; our run game was atrocious. He did it anyways, and Henne torched that defense. If Henning didn't go super conservative with his playcalling whenever we were in the Meadowlands, we'd probably put up a lot more points in those meetings. Not saying we would have for sure, but anyone who didn't see a difference in aggressiveness at home and when we were in NY wasn't watching the games.

Defensively, our defense matches up very well with their offense. They are a run-first team that thrives off of the play action. That first game we were missing Crowder and Smith was out, and whether people like it or not, that is why their offense was able to move the ball so well. That second game, Crowder was in and Smith was actually playing well and they couldn't get much of anything going. We shut down their run, which took away the threat of the playaction. It's no surprise the entire offense stalled. That first game they were the running the ball pretty well, which made the play action pretty effective. That and Jason Allen was a joke of a corner. If you shut down the Jet's run, you take away the most dangerous part of that offense. The Phin's defense is one of the few that is able to do that without bringing a safety down into the box.

All of you guys saying blaming that loss to the Phins on the Santonio Holmes drop are completely forgetting that it happened early in the third quarter if I remember right. It would have been a COMPLETELY different game if we were down. We went into retard-conservative mode with Henning's playcalling because we were up. If we were down, it still would have been retard-conservative mode, but he would have actively been trying to get some points. You guys lost that game because Sanchez played like sh*t against our defense, bottom line.

You aren't 3-1 against s b/c of Henne. In the last 2 wins against us henne has thrown for a combined 17-39, 167 yds, 2, TDs, 0 INTs, led his O to 19 pts total. The only positive was that he didn't turn it over but in most games performances like he had would not be enough to beat anyone let alone a team as good as the Jets.

As far as your D vs. our O, our O dominated your D in the 1st game and your D dominated our O in the rematch. In 3 of the 4 games Sanchez has had big games. The biggest reason you shut us down in that rematch was b/c our O was still in a 3 week long funk that we wouldn't start to break out of until the following week at Pitt.

You couldn't move the ball all game long, if Holmes hangs on and we go ahead we are likely winning that game. Miami had 131 net yds and 6 1st downs, both of your scores were ste up by turnovers in jets territory including getting the ball at the NYJ 26 to set up the TD. Your O couldn't do anything all game, it wasn't about being conservative. If Holmes holds on to that TD(which was in the 2nd qtr) the chances are that we at the very least see OT.

nyjunc
05-06-2011, 11:57 AM
Everything you said is correct except the part about the Jets clearly being the better team. I'd say they are pretty even. The Jets overachieved making the AFC Championship. Sanchez is way over-rated. I'm not saying the Jets suck, b/c they don't. Thank Rex for getting you there. I can't stand Rex, but I have to give credit where credit is due. He is a very good coach. He has that team believing.

You can say Sanchez is overrated and we overachieved but the proof is in the record. We have 6 more wins in the reg season the last 2 years and 4 more in postseason- that's 10 more wins than Miami. We have been significantly better. That doesn;t mean going forward Miami doesn't have a chance to compete w/ us for postseason but there's no doubt who the better team has been despite the head to head record.

Jetsfan0099
05-06-2011, 12:05 PM
Chad Henne's one strength is playing against blitz-happy defenses, especially those that play single-high looks. That is Rex Ryan's defense to a T. For as much of a defensive genius as everyone claims Rex to be, you would think he would have learned that and played the bracket coverages that Henne struggles with. But he doesn't, he is too stubborn for that. Especially last year, there was absolutely no reason for him to pull that safety down into the box; our run game was atrocious. He did it anyways, and Henne torched that defense. If Henning didn't go super conservative with his playcalling whenever we were in the Meadowlands, we'd probably put up a lot more points in those meetings. Not saying we would have for sure, but anyone who didn't see a difference in aggressiveness at home and when we were in NY wasn't watching the games.

Defensively, our defense matches up very well with their offense. They are a run-first team that thrives off of the play action. That first game we were missing Crowder and Smith was out, and whether people like it or not, that is why their offense was able to move the ball so well. That second game, Crowder was in and Smith was actually playing well and they couldn't get much of anything going. We shut down their run, which took away the threat of the playaction. It's no surprise the entire offense stalled. That first game they were the running the ball pretty well, which made the play action pretty effective. That and Jason Allen was a joke of a corner. If you shut down the Jet's run, you take away the most dangerous part of that offense. The Phin's defense is one of the few that is able to do that without bringing a safety down into the box.

All of you guys saying blaming that loss to the Phins on the Santonio Holmes drop are completely forgetting that it happened early in the third quarter if I remember right. It would have been a COMPLETELY different game if we were down. We went into retard-conservative mode with Henning's playcalling because we were up. If we were down, it still would have been retard-conservative mode, but he would have actively been trying to get some points. You guys lost that game because Sanchez played like sh*t against our defense, bottom line.


Lets not act like Henne plays great against the Jets every time. He did good the first time because they didn't game plan for him and the defense played like trash with the miss tackles. And the other game he played good against the Jets was when Revis didn't play and Marshall had a huge game. The Jets tried playing too much zone, when they had Cromartie playing up in press with Marshall he was able to cover him, but when he was playing back in zone he looked lost.

Chad Henne had 55 yards and completed 27% of his passes the 2nd game, don't act like he played great against the Jets in the meadowlands and that it was because they went conservative and if we had scored they would have moved it awesomingly. Henne played like **** that game too. Revis blanketed Bess and Cromartie blanketed Marshall.

And the other game Henne had at the meadowlands he had 112 yards and sacked 5 times, played like **** but was lucky that Ginn had 2 KR for TDs against usually a great kick coverage team and Jason Taylor returning a fumble for a TD.

Jetsfan0099
05-06-2011, 12:06 PM
Everything you said is correct except the part about the Jets clearly being the better team. I'd say they are pretty even. The Jets overachieved making the AFC Championship. Sanchez is way over-rated. I'm not saying the Jets suck, b/c they don't. Thank Rex for getting you there. I can't stand Rex, but I have to give credit where credit is due. He is a very good coach. He has that team believing.

So if the Jets had won the SB you would still be saying that they aren't better than the Dolphins and that they are even. ok

sn9ke.eyes
05-06-2011, 12:07 PM
You can say Sanchez is overrated and we overachieved but the proof is in the record. We have 6 more wins in the reg season the last 2 years and 4 more in postseason- that's 10 more wins than Miami. We have been significantly better. That doesn;t mean going forward Miami doesn't have a chance to compete w/ us for postseason but there's no doubt who the better team has been despite the head to head record.

You are right, the proof is in the record. Sparano 3 Rex 1

Ruby2
05-06-2011, 12:54 PM
In 2 games we outscored the bills by a combined total of 2 points. Against them we were 1-1. Lets not act like we sweep them every year or something, we haven't swept the bills for the last 2 or 3 years.

Im a Jets fans

Of course the Bills are hard for you guys :):):P

Phin-o-rama
05-06-2011, 01:00 PM
jets mad

Ruby2
05-06-2011, 01:01 PM
jets mad

So mad

Grrrr

tay0365
05-06-2011, 01:17 PM
Im a Jets fans

Of course the Bills are hard for you guys :):):P

Absolutely, we want to play the Jets more....:up:

Statler Waldorf
05-06-2011, 01:55 PM
We've actually beaten the Jets 4 out of the last 5 games (one when they had Mangenius at the helm). If we go 2-14 next year but both wins are against the Jets I'd be bummed out but would still have something to smile about before bed everynight.

Locke
05-06-2011, 02:22 PM
Lets not act like Henne plays great against the Jets every time. He did good the first time because they didn't game plan for him and the defense played like trash with the miss tackles. And the other game he played good against the Jets was when Revis didn't play and Marshall had a huge game. The Jets tried playing too much zone, when they had Cromartie playing up in press with Marshall he was able to cover him, but when he was playing back in zone he looked lost.

Chad Henne had 55 yards and completed 27% of his passes the 2nd game, don't act like he played great against the Jets in the meadowlands and that it was because they went conservative and if we had scored they would have moved it awesomingly. Henne played like **** that game too. Revis blanketed Bess and Cromartie blanketed Marshall.

And the other game Henne had at the meadowlands he had 112 yards and sacked 5 times, played like **** but was lucky that Ginn had 2 KR for TDs against usually a great kick coverage team and Jason Taylor returning a fumble for a TD.

This is why I normally ignore you Jet fans. I specifically said that had we lost the lead, we still would have been conservative. Do you need me to repeat it again for you? Or did you catch it that time? Good grief. It's like the second someone looks at a computer monitor, their reading comprehension skills go down to down syndrome level...

King Dingaling
05-06-2011, 03:02 PM
1. We always get pumped up to play those A$$holes
2. We are not intimidated by trash talk.
3. the Jets aren't that good.

hemidemon
05-06-2011, 05:55 PM
So if the Jets had won the SB you would still be saying that they aren't better than the Dolphins and that they are even. ok

What if the moon was made of green cheese. I don't know what I'd be saying. Win a Super Bowl first.

Rex
05-06-2011, 06:47 PM
Lmao at the guy who said that it's debatable whether Rex is better than Sparano... that's why Woody flew to Frisco to throw a duffle bag full of cash at a college coach, right? Like it or not, but Jet fans measure our team with wins against the Patriots. Your team and Bills are games we feel we should win. When we lose to you, it's because something BAD happened. Either ST coverage was messed up, WRs dropping wide open TDs or Mark Sanchez throwing 5 INTs. Yes, you read that right. No matter how good you may think your team is, you're closer to the Bills in term of talent + coaching than your are to us and the Pats.

sm0kinfins
05-07-2011, 03:49 AM
If you are going to note the only win came down to the wire you must also not that all 3 of Miami's wins have come down to the wire and the largest margin of victory in the 4 games was the Jets 8 pt win last year.

Miami is not a bad team, they can play w/ pretty much anyone. They had some breaks go their way and capitalized in those 3 wins. All 4 games btw the 2 could have gone either way, one of the wins Miami had THREE non offensive TDs and won by just 5, last year in a game that set offesinsive football back 100 years they won by 4 and Holmes dropped a wide open TD pass. The Jets are clearly the better team but Miami can play w/ anyone for a game, their problems have been focusing against the average/bad teams.

There's that spin we've come to expect. :rolleyes2:

All is right in the world again... :D

hab321
05-07-2011, 07:35 AM
If you are going to note the only win came down to the wire you must also not that all 3 of Miami's wins have come down to the wire and the largest margin of victory in the 4 games was the Jets 8 pt win last year.

Miami is not a bad team, they can play w/ pretty much anyone. They had some breaks go their way and capitalized in those 3 wins. All 4 games btw the 2 could have gone either way, one of the wins Miami had THREE non offensive TDs and won by just 5, last year in a game that set offesinsive football back 100 years they won by 4 and Holmes dropped a wide open TD pass. The Jets are clearly the better team but Miami can play w/ anyone for a game, their problems have been focusing against the average/bad teams.

While I am a die hard Phins fan and really can't stand the Jets, he makes a good point here. To expand further, all the teams in the AFC east prepare/draft/gameplan for each other. This breeds parity (somewhat) in the division. Shoot, even the Bills play the Pats tough. I think back to the Shula years and the Jets always played Miami tough (winning most of the time it seems like), yet the Jets were avg. to below avg. most of those years.
The only point I don't agree with him on is saying Miami is not a bad team. I think they are a bad team. They don't seem to gameplan well against anyone (save the Jets and Pats) and they don't make any real in game adjustments. We shall see if the new coaches will have a change on this, but I'm not really sold yet. We do have some tools (players), just not a carpenter (coaches) to work with them.
All in all I'd have to say that Miami has been plain lucky against the Jets the last couple of years. Eventually the luck will run out.

phinking
05-07-2011, 09:39 AM
The Dolphins match up very well with the Jets. Our Corners dominated their wideouts thereby making Sanchez ineffective. Pauls Soliai dominates Kris Mangoll every time they play. and there is always one player on this team that takes his game to another level when he plays the Jets. In 2008 it was Chad Pennington and Philip Merling, in 2009 it was Ted Ginn Jr. and last season it was Sean Smith and Brandon Fields who had the greatest game any Punter has ever had for the Dolphins.

Phinatic8u
05-07-2011, 10:08 AM
Well the most important thing is well were built the same.

Run first with some passing. They just have the better QB.

If we can somehow strike gold with a QB in next years draft then we'll be battling for division titles & SBs

Rex
05-07-2011, 10:37 AM
The Dolphins match up very well with the Jets. Our Corners dominated their wideouts thereby making Sanchez ineffective. Pauls Soliai dominates Kris Mangoll every time they play. and there is always one player on this team that takes his game to another level when he plays the Jets. In 2008 it was Chad Pennington and Philip Merling, in 2009 it was Ted Ginn Jr. and last season it was Sean Smith and Brandon Fields who had the greatest game any Punter has ever had for the Dolphins.

Santonio Holmes was wide open in the end zone without a defender within 10 yards of him. He dropped the easiest pass an NFL WR can hope for. Also, it would help your argument if you'd at least know the name of the best C in the NFL.

spydertl79
05-07-2011, 11:28 AM
Mark Sanchez gives us the ball 3-5 times/ game. That helps.

mfish41
05-07-2011, 01:27 PM
we're pretty much the same team, and i hate to say this but i think the difference is their coach will take risks and play for the throat if the opportunity arises and our coach would rather just play it safe and play not to lose.

Rex
05-07-2011, 06:01 PM
we're pretty much the same team, and i hate to say this but i think the difference is their coach will take risks and play for the throat if the opportunity arises and our coach would rather just play it safe and play not to lose.

How are we the same team if three of your starters on the OL would not even be backups on our team? You're right, although our OC leaves A LOT to be desired, we do have faith in Rex Ryan.

TKAllDay
05-07-2011, 08:03 PM
The Jets aren't that good. To add to that, the fins are very familiar with the Jets. The fins always keep the Jets on their toes :-)

josekareh
05-07-2011, 10:52 PM
You can say Sanchez is overrated and we overachieved but the proof is in the record. We have 6 more wins in the reg season the last 2 years and 4 more in postseason- that's 10 more wins than Miami. We have been significantly better. That doesn;t mean going forward Miami doesn't have a chance to compete w/ us for postseason but there's no doubt who the better team has been despite the head to head record.

and that means????

josekareh
05-07-2011, 10:55 PM
How are we the same team if three of your starters on the OL would not even be backups on our team? You're right, although our OC leaves A LOT to be desired, we do have faith in Rex Ryan.


Keep the faith pal...LMFAO :lol2: I wish you had Henning last year.... and still beat the crap out of those jests

nyjunc
05-09-2011, 08:41 AM
Santonio Holmes was wide open in the end zone without a defender within 10 yards of him. He dropped the easiest pass an NFL WR can hope for. Also, it would help your argument if you'd at least know the name of the best C in the NFL.

Not to mention our offense has dominated their D 3 of 4 games agsinst them so to say their corners dominated our wideouts as the reason they have had success against us is beyond comical.


Mark Sanchez gives us the ball 3-5 times/ game. That helps.

ONE interception and ONE lost fumble in FOUR games is giving you the ball 3-5 times a game?


The Jets aren't that good. To add to that, the fins are very familiar with the Jets. The fins always keep the Jets on their toes :-)

We suck, it was pure luck that we are the ONLY team to make the conf title game each of the last 2 years.:lol:

PhinzN703
05-09-2011, 10:38 AM
It is pretty funny how Dolfans here still like to say the Jets aren't that good. Sure they haven't won the SB since the late 60s but since the Phins haven't either, what else is there to go on? The Jets being a half away from the Super Bowl two straight years negates anything the Dolphins have done since 1984.

This is a fact.

jw0119
05-09-2011, 04:05 PM
Why are we so obsessed with the Jets? They made back to back AFC title games, and I'd switch places with them in a heartbeat. It makes us seem so petty that beating the jets is like our superbowl.

We haven't won a playoff game in over a decade...I don't give a **** about the Jets, I want to win.

nyjunc
05-10-2011, 09:08 AM
Why are we so obsessed with the Jets? They made back to back AFC title games, and I'd switch places with them in a heartbeat. It makes us seem so petty that beating the jets is like our superbowl.

We haven't won a playoff game in over a decade...I don't give a **** about the Jets, I want to win.

I somewhat agree but to be fair we are heated rivals and it is fun to beat the other. If you have a bad year and beat the other team it makes the sting a little less painful but I'd much rather lose to Miami evrey game and have chances to reach the SB than beat Miami and not make the playoffs.

NY8123
05-10-2011, 09:53 AM
Well the most important thing is well were built the same.

Run first with some passing. They just have the better QB.

If we can somehow strike gold with a QB in next years draft then we'll be battling for division titles & SBs

But they don't.

nyjunc
05-10-2011, 10:04 AM
But they don't.

Yes we do and it's not really debateable at this point.

PhinzN703
05-10-2011, 10:24 AM
But they don't.

How can you say they don't? He's their franchise QB. The Dolphins are still looking for theirs.

NY8123
05-10-2011, 11:29 AM
Yes we do and it's not really debateable at this point.



How can you say they don't? He's their franchise QB. The Dolphins are still looking for theirs.

Glad he is theirs, it makes Miami's job easier going forward. The Jets have made two consecutive playoff runs by rushing their way into the playoffs and playing great defense.

When Pitt shut the rush down in the championship game and made the Jets one dimensional they lost. The same thing happened the year before against the Colts in the championship game.

That's really not debatable at this point.

Joe W. Namath
05-10-2011, 12:38 PM
The answer:

Jets have overlooked the inferior, crappy Dolphins. Dolphins treat this game like it is the super bowl while the jets treat it as a bye week.

nyjunc
05-10-2011, 12:40 PM
Glad he is theirs, it makes Miami's job easier going forward. The Jets have made two consecutive playoff runs by rushing their way into the playoffs and playing great defense.

When Pitt shut the rush down in the championship game and made the Jets one dimensional they lost. The same thing happened the year before against the Colts in the championship game.

That's really not debatable at this point.

Our D and run game was very inconsistent last year and our QB/passing game won many games. In postseason the run game led the O in the Colts game but we won b/c of the passing game at NE. The Colts game last year we lost our best RB in the 2nd half and had a rookie QB, this year we came all the way back on the arm of mark and had a chance if our D could have stopped Pitt but they couldn't. We lost the last 2 years in the title game b/c of the defense NOT b/c of the QB.

2 years in the league, 2 title game apps. Spin it any way you want. 4 road playoff wins for Mark- tied for the ALL TIME record in just 2 seasons in the league hwile your QB has yet to win a big reg season game.

tay0365
05-10-2011, 03:08 PM
Yes we do and it's not really debateable at this point.

Your right, if you look at the QB ratings the last two years....Not debatable

If you take the running game from both QBs.....Not debatable

If you put both on teams with no defense......Not debatable

If you put both on teams with good not great WR......Not debatable

Henne has looked better and had a better rating when he had a Running game but no defense (Compared to Sanchez with good Running and D) in 09

Henne has looked better and had a better rating, when he had no Running game but a defense (Compared to Sanchez with good Running and D) in 10

But lets not believe our eyes, Sanchez must be better because the Jets made it to the Championship 2 year in a row. :rolleyes2:

whizafriz
05-10-2011, 03:09 PM
the Jets are us with a worse version of Henne, but with the chains off. They also thrived without having to deal with an OC like Henning.

nyjunc
05-10-2011, 03:21 PM
Your right, if you look at the QB ratings the last two years....Not debatable

If you take the running game from both QBs.....Not debatable

If you put both on teams with no defense......Not debatable

If you put both on teams with good not great WR......Not debatable

Henne has looked better and had a better rating when he had a Running game but no defense (Compared to Sanchez with good Running and D) in 09

Henne has looked better and had a better rating, when he had no Running game but a defense (Compared to Sanchez with good Running and D) in 10

But lets not believe our eyes, Sanchez must be better because the Jets made it to the Championship 2 year in a row. :rolleyes2:

Your first mistake is judging QBs using QB ratings.

Both QBs had similar running games the last 2 years

Your D was on par w/ our D last year

Sanchez was 3-1 w/ Chansi Stuckey as a starting WR

I like you tay but you clearly do not know how to evaluate QBs. The two aren't even close right now and it doesn't matter what the ratings say. Sanchez makes plays when his team needs him most, when the running game did struggle, when the D did struggle it was mark and the passing game there to pick up the slack. he won 4-5-6 games w/ excellent play late in games, Henne has NEVER won a big game- not in college or in the NFL. You can keep your slight statistical edge, I'll keep the guy who makes plays to win games. The job of the QB is to win real games not fantasy games.

Vaark
05-10-2011, 03:49 PM
Everything's relative. Sanchez is closer right now looking below toward Henne than he is reaching up toward Fitzpatrick. This time last year who'd have thought that Chad and Ryan would have flip flopped divisional rankings :idk:

nyjunc
05-10-2011, 03:55 PM
The QB rankings in the division go like this:

1. Brady
2. Sanchez
3. Fitz
4. Henne

This also isn't really debateable even though Mark outplayed Brady in the biggest game of the year.

mrodriguez4096
05-10-2011, 04:08 PM
Your first mistake is judging QBs using QB ratings.

Both QBs had similar running games the last 2 years

Your D was on par w/ our D last year

Sanchez was 3-1 w/ Chansi Stuckey as a starting WR

I like you tay but you clearly do not know how to evaluate QBs. The two aren't even close right now and it doesn't matter what the ratings say. Sanchez makes plays when his team needs him most, when the running game did struggle, when the D did struggle it was mark and the passing game there to pick up the slack. he won 4-5-6 games w/ excellent play late in games, Henne has NEVER won a big game- not in college or in the NFL. You can keep your slight statistical edge, I'll keep the guy who makes plays to win games. The job of the QB is to win real games not fantasy games.

I've always enjoyed reading the debates when it has to do with the Jets/Fins. Especially now with nothing else to talk about and being bored to death about all this labor bs, this is something I can actually enjoy.

Now, I made a couple of bold points because they caught my attention.

Both qb did NOT have similar running games the last two years, I will give you the first year it was good, but I will argue that it was as good as the Jets. Your offensive line has been much better then ours for those two years and don't let me get started on last year's line. It was piss poor.

Our D was very good last season, as I thought it could be with Nolan as a D cord. It's up for debate as to who has a total better D (you could say both do well at certain things that the other doesn't). Rex has great schemes and gets the most out of the talent you have there.

Sanchez being 3-1 with Stuckey has less to do about Stuckey and more to do with the running game and the defense. You want to talk about the ratings don't mean anything when talking about a qb? Then don't think that wins is a direct result of the qb alone.

Sanchez was picked how high in the draft? You expect him to make the throws he has during clutch moments. He has performed very well for you in those situations. Whether that has to do with D, running game, game situation is up for debate because some can look at those situations and come away with different opinions.

Your happy with Sanchez and the Dolphins are struggling to figure out who their qb is gonna be. Personally, while others argue, I think that Henne can be a good qb. I believe that his struggles last season were more due to the OC then it was to do with him. Did he struggle? Yes. Did he make great throws at times? Yes.

Depending on what happens this off-season I believe that you will see Henne do better. Some people say he isn't smart enough or can't do certain things. I sure hope that he does improve and proves those doubters wrong because I don't believe he was given the proper tools (coaching) to properly correct things when they started going south for him.

tay0365
05-10-2011, 04:10 PM
Your first mistake is judging QBs using QB ratings.

Nope, I Judged both on who had more weapons?... Who had a better O-coordinator?......Who was more dominant when there was no running games? Then I checked QB rating. I instead of going with other people's opinion, or watching stats, I did my homework, I have seen both in action, and it really is a joke people think of Henne as a struggling QB, and Sanchez as a franchise QB.



Both QBs had similar running games the last 2 years





Really?

2009: Running yards and average per run

Jets- 2756 yards (1st in NFL).....4.5 per attempt
Dolphins-2231 yards (4th)..........4.4 per attempt


2010: Running yards and average per run

Jets- 2374 Yards(ranked 4th in NFL) .....4.4 per attempt
Dolphins- 1643 yards(Ranked 21st in NFL)....3.9 attempt


Your D was on par w/ our D last year

But not in 09, a running game is what we lacked in 2010 (Check stats on top) and yet both years Chad ended with stats.


Sanchez was 3-1 w/ Chansi Stuckey as a starting WR

And the great WR Henne had for most of the season in 09 was?



I like you tay but you clearly do not know how to evaluate QBs. The two aren't even close right now and it doesn't matter what the ratings say. Sanchez makes plays when his team needs him most, when the running game did struggle, when the D did struggle it was mark and the passing game there to pick up the slack. he won 4-5-6 games w/ excellent play late in games, Henne has NEVER won a big game- not in college or in the NFL. You can keep your slight statistical edge, I'll keep the guy who makes plays to win games. The job of the QB is to win real games not fantasy games.

Actually I evaluate by watching the two player I am comparing, I don't go with who's team went further, or which team scored more points. I am comparing two QBs, so in the last 2 years, who has been the more accurate? Who in the last 2 years has been more effective when there was no running game? Who has come back more times in the final minutes of a game? Who has worked better when you D was not there to help you? Who of the two has been most dominant (most 300yrd games/ multi TD games)? Who has a better TD/INT ration? Then after that I look at which QB has had better talent around him, and finally who had a better O-coordinator.

How do you evaluate QBs?

Nublar7
05-10-2011, 04:11 PM
The QB rankings in the division go like this:

1. Brady
2. Sanchez
3. Fitz
4. Henne

This also isn't really debateable even though Mark outplayed Brady in the biggest game of the year.If we take off the homer goggles and really look at the AFC East Quarterbacks the ranking is like this:

1. Brady
2. Fitzpatrick
3a. Henne
3b: Sanchez

Henne and Sanchez are really very even after two years of starting.

1. Henne has thrown for over 500 more yards.
2. Sanchez has two more passing touchdowns (29 to 27)
3. They are tied with 33 interceptions.
4. Henne has a higher completion percentage (61.1% to 54.5%).
5. Henne has a higher QB rating (75.3 to 70.2)

While Henne leads in almost every aspect of their games, I do consider them pretty even. Only difference is that Sanchez has had a better supporting cast on offense to help cover up his limitations. Yes he was part of four road playoff wins, but those wins were not because of him, they were in spite of him. Sure he had some games during the season he won, but so did Henne.

Both QBs have limitations and big question marks. Both also have great potential and will continue to grow. The other main difference is Miami is looking to upgrade the position while the Jets are not even entertaining the idea of upgrading the position, which might backfire on them. The running game and defense can't carry Sanchez his entire career.

Vaark
05-10-2011, 04:22 PM
If we take off the homer goggles and really look at the AFC East Quarterbacks the ranking is like this:

1. Brady
2. Fitzpatrick
3a. Henne
3b: Sanchez

Henne and Sanchez are really very even after two years of starting.

1. Henne has thrown for over 500 more yards.
2. Sanchez has two more passing touchdowns (29 to 27)
3. They are tied with 33 interceptions.
4. Henne has a higher completion percentage (61.1% to 54.5%).
5. Henne has a higher QB rating (75.3 to 70.2)

While Henne leads in almost every aspect of their games, I do consider them pretty even. Only difference is that Sanchez has had a better supporting cast on offense to help cover up his limitations. Yes he was part of four road playoff wins, but those wins were not because of him, they were in spite of him. Sure he had some games during the season he won, but so did Henne.

Both QBs have limitations and big question marks. Both also have great potential and will continue to grow. The other main difference is Miami is looking to upgrade the position while the Jets are not even entertaining the idea of upgrading the position, which might backfire on them. The running game and defense can't carry Sanchez his entire career.

to be fair, i'd have to rank Henne a little lower, at least for now than Sanchez.. (just as Henne was the slightly superior QB this time last year) However regretably for both teams, Fitz right now ranks a helluva lot higher than both of them

Phinatic8u
05-10-2011, 04:23 PM
But they don't.

But they do.

Yeah Henne may have better numbers, but who ****ing cares about numbers.

Vaark
05-10-2011, 04:24 PM
Brady





Fitzpatrick






Sanchez

Henne

Phinatic8u
05-10-2011, 04:26 PM
The answer:

Jets have overlooked the inferior, crappy Dolphins. Dolphins treat this game like it is the super bowl while the jets treat it as a bye week.

:lol:

Not by your coach.

Nublar7
05-10-2011, 04:26 PM
But they do.

Yeah Henne may have better numbers, but who ****ing cares about numbers.

If you put Henne on the Jets and Sanchez on the Dolphins, the team results would be exactly the same.

nyjunc
05-10-2011, 04:27 PM
I've always enjoyed reading the debates when it has to do with the Jets/Fins. Especially now with nothing else to talk about and being bored to death about all this labor bs, this is something I can actually enjoy.

Now, I made a couple of bold points because they caught my attention.

Both qb did NOT have similar running games the last two years, I will give you the first year it was good, but I will argue that it was as good as the Jets. Your offensive line has been much better then ours for those two years and don't let me get started on last year's line. It was piss poor.

Our D was very good last season, as I thought it could be with Nolan as a D cord. It's up for debate as to who has a total better D (you could say both do well at certain things that the other doesn't). Rex has great schemes and gets the most out of the talent you have there.

Sanchez being 3-1 with Stuckey has less to do about Stuckey and more to do with the running game and the defense. You want to talk about the ratings don't mean anything when talking about a qb? Then don't think that wins is a direct result of the qb alone.

Sanchez was picked how high in the draft? You expect him to make the throws he has during clutch moments. He has performed very well for you in those situations. Whether that has to do with D, running game, game situation is up for debate because some can look at those situations and come away with different opinions.

Your happy with Sanchez and the Dolphins are struggling to figure out who their qb is gonna be. Personally, while others argue, I think that Henne can be a good qb. I believe that his struggles last season were more due to the OC then it was to do with him. Did he struggle? Yes. Did he make great throws at times? Yes.

Depending on what happens this off-season I believe that you will see Henne do better. Some people say he isn't smart enough or can't do certain things. I sure hope that he does improve and proves those doubters wrong because I don't believe he was given the proper tools (coaching) to properly correct things when they started going south for him.

I believe our top 2 RBs avreaged 4.1 YPC while yours averaged 3.9, there wasn't a big difference.

When we had Stuckey our running game was struggling big time. Our D played great those first 4 games but the run game was struggling. If not for a garbage time run by Thomas Jones late in the 1st game our rushing #s would have been pretty bad.

Regardless of where a guy is drafted he is paid to perform. Sanchez didn't have the luxury to sit and watch a vet like Chad P, he had pressure from day 1. Chad H never really had pressure until late in 2009 and he folded.

I don't think henne is done, I think he can play in this league and maybe he turns out better than Mark? But based on the most recent season where our QB took a major step forward and yours went backwards mark is comfortably ahead of Henne.

Phinatic8u
05-10-2011, 04:28 PM
If you put Henne on the Jets and Sanchez on the Dolphins, the team results would be exactly the same.

While that is true, Sanchez has a important part of a QB

The swagger and the want to get better, Henne not so much IMO

Phinatic8u
05-10-2011, 04:29 PM
I believe our top 2 RBs avreaged 4.1 YPC while yours averaged 3.9, there wasn't a big difference.

When we had Stuckey our running game was struggling big time. Our D played great those first 4 games but the run game was struggling. If not for a garbage time run by Thomas Jones late in the 1st game our rushing #s would have been pretty bad.

Regardless of where a guy is drafted he is paid to perform. Sanchez didn't have the luxury to sit and watch a vet like Chad P, he had pressure from day 1. Chad H never really had pressure until late in 2009 and he folded.

I don't think henne is done, I think he can play in this league and maybe he turns out better than Mark? But based on the most recent season where our QB took a major step forward and yours went backwards mark is comfortably ahead of Henne.

& what was Mark's major step forward? Less than 20 interceptions?

Fintastic2124
05-10-2011, 04:41 PM
Man, I hardly have enough time in the day to get on my own teams forums.... Let alone troll on others.

tay0365
05-10-2011, 04:50 PM
If you put Henne on the Jets and Sanchez on the Dolphins, the team results would be exactly the same.

Actually I believe Henne's stats would end up being even better then Sanchez. I believe neither has proven anything, but with Henne, if not for the way Henning has handled him, he would right now be a very serviceable to good QB.

mrodriguez4096
05-10-2011, 04:55 PM
Actually I believe Henne's stats would end up being even better then the Sanchez. I believe neither has proven anything, but with Henne, if not for the way Henning has handled him, he would right now be a very serviceable to good QB.


I SO AGREE with this. I HATE HENNING. His play calling was unreal. I hated seeing it. I am so hoping this new OC calls better plays. I mean, he can't do worse.

sharp
05-10-2011, 04:59 PM
& what was Mark's major step forward? Less than 20 interceptions?

LOL

Also Henne was having a year where, like the fins as a whole, James Harrison blatantly knocks a pass down and falls on it. Ruled incomplete. NFL reviews it and calls it an INT LOL WTF? Sanchez might have had atleast 10 dropped picks. I can count 5 from sean smith and 2 from jason allen. Henne wasn't getting lucky there, Sanchez was. Overall I didn't see much progression from either.

nyjunc
05-10-2011, 05:03 PM
Nope, I Judged both on who had more weapons?... Who had a better O-coordinator?......Who was more dominant when there was no running games? Then I checked QB rating. I instead of going with other people's opinion, or watching stats, I did my homework, I have seen both in action, and it really is a joke people think of Henne as a struggling QB, and Sanchez as a franchise QB.








Really?

2009: Running yards and average per run

Jets- 2756 yards (1st in NFL).....4.5 per attempt
Dolphins-2231 yards (4th)..........4.4 per attempt


2010: Running yards and average per run

Jets- 2374 Yards(ranked 4th in NFL) .....4.4 per attempt
Dolphins- 1643 yards(Ranked 21st in NFL)....3.9 attempt



But not in 09, a running game is what we lacked in 2010 (Check stats on top) and yet both years Chad ended with stats.



And the great WR Henne had for most of the season in 09 was?


I like you tay but you clearly do not know how to evaluate QBs. The two aren't even close right now and it doesn't matter what the ratings say. Sanchez makes plays when his team needs him most, when the running game did struggle, when the D did struggle it was mark and the passing game there to pick up the slack. he won 4-5-6 games w/ excellent play late in games, Henne has NEVER won a big game- not in college or in the NFL. You can keep your slight statistical edge, I'll keep the guy who makes plays to win games. The job of the QB is to win real games not fantasy games.

Actually I evaluate by watching the two player I am comparing, I don't go with who's team went further, or which team scored more points. I am comparing two QBs, so in the last 2 years, who has been the more accurate? Who in the last 2 years has been more effective when there was no running game? Who has come back more times in the final minutes of a game? Who has worked better when you D was not there to help you? Who of the two has been most dominant (most 300yrd games/ multi TD games)? Who has a better TD/INT ration? Then after that I look at which QB has had better talent around him, and finally who had a better O-coordinator.

How do you evaluate QBs?[/QUOTE]

Again, Mark was 3-1 w/ Chansi Stuckey as a starting WR, he was also 3-1 last year before he got Santonio Holmes.

Jet fans whines about our OC as much as dolphin fans whined about henning.

Sanchez won many games late when our run game struggled, did henne?

if you are doing your homework and understand what you are watching you'd know why one is considered a franchise QB and the other is playing for his dolphin life in 2011.

Yes really. You are inclduing WRs running the ball, that doesn't help a QB w/ playaction.

Ricky/Ronnie in 2009: 4.56 YPC
Jones/Green in 2009: 4.42 YPC

Ricky/Ronnie 2010: 3.92 YPC
LT/Green 2010: 4.16 YPC

The production over 2 years was almost identical.


The WR was better than Stcukey, right?

You evaluate strictly by looking at fantasy #s, you don't take into account how those #s were accumulated. If a guy throws 2 TDs in a blowout loss that doesn't impress me but if a guy makes plays down the stretch to win games that does impress me.

Again, the Jets run game and D were inconsistent in 2010 yet mark pulled out many games late through the air. That doesn't show up in a stat sheet.

300 yd games do not indicate dominance, Henne has 6 career 300 yd agmes and has lost 4 of them. It's not impressive to pile up yards w/o putting poitns up and w/o winning. Sanchez has two 300 yd games(and a 299 yd game) and has won all of them.

Isn't +4 TDs to INTs better than -4? I'm confused?


But I was told each of the last 2 offseasons how Miami had a better OL, better RBs and better WRs but now when Mark outplays henne it's b/c he has more talent. Interesting.


I evelaute QBs based on how they lead, on how they perform when their teams need them most and how often they find ways to win. A QBs job is to win not to post great fantasy #s. mark is a young, developing QB. he'll post better #s in the coming years but he already knows how to win which is most important. he's not intimidated to play in big games or big moments like Chad henne appears to be,


If we take off the homer goggles and really look at the AFC East Quarterbacks the ranking is like this:

1. Brady
2. Fitzpatrick
3a. Henne
3b: Sanchez

Henne and Sanchez are really very even after two years of starting.

1. Henne has thrown for over 500 more yards.
2. Sanchez has two more passing touchdowns (29 to 27)
3. They are tied with 33 interceptions.
4. Henne has a higher completion percentage (61.1% to 54.5%).
5. Henne has a higher QB rating (75.3 to 70.2)

While Henne leads in almost every aspect of their games, I do consider them pretty even. Only difference is that Sanchez has had a better supporting cast on offense to help cover up his limitations. Yes he was part of four road playoff wins, but those wins were not because of him, they were in spite of him. Sure he had some games during the season he won, but so did Henne.

Both QBs have limitations and big question marks. Both also have great potential and will continue to grow. The other main difference is Miami is looking to upgrade the position while the Jets are not even entertaining the idea of upgrading the position, which might backfire on them. The running game and defense can't carry Sanchez his entire career.

:lol2::lol2: You want to talk about homers?

Another person just looking at fantasy #s, name me the big game Fitz has EVER played in and ever executed in? I don't care that he put up some #s for a dead team in meaningless games. Same thing w/ henne.

After 2 years starting henne has better #s but what does that tell us toher than henne put up better #s in garbage time? in meaningful moments and meaningful games where was Henne? There's a reason why Miami is looking for a QB and the Jets are not.


Which is more important? TDs or yards? scoring points is most important. Henne has 82 more attempts and 2 less TDs, henne also had the luxury of learning behind a good vet while Sanchez was thrown into the fire as a rookie.

Not one of those playoff wins was in spite of Mark. he may not have been reason #1 we won but he made plays to win every single one of those games and the 2 we lost we lost b/c our D crumbled not b/c our QB crumbled.

I just wonder what some of you guys watched in the 2010 season? He was not carried by our running game and D. he was a major reason why we won 11 games. As a rookie he was carried by our running game and D but not in year 2 where he took major steps forward while henne too major steps backwards- that is why the jets are set at QB and Miami is looking.

tay0365
05-10-2011, 05:03 PM
I SO AGREE with this. I HATE HENNING. His play calling was unreal. I hated seeing it. I am so hoping this new OC calls better plays. I mean, he can't do worse.

Exactly, Henne did not have a good year in 2010, but it really drove me nuts, every time Henne was finally showing confidence, and on a roll completing 4, 5, 6 in row, to take him out the moment they reached the redzone in favor of the wildcat or to play for better FG position.

Nublar7
05-10-2011, 05:04 PM
LOL

Also Henne was having a year where, like the fins as a whole, James Harrison blatantly knocks a pass down and falls on it. Ruled incomplete. NFL reviews it and calls it an INT LOL WTF? Sanchez might have had atleast 10 dropped picks. I can count 5 from sean smith and 2 from jason allen. Henne wasn't getting lucky there, Sanchez was. Overall I didn't see much progression from either.

I think I remember reading that Sanchez actually had the most dropped interceptions in the entire league, while Henne had the fewest.

nyjunc
05-10-2011, 05:08 PM
& what was Mark's major step forward? Less than 20 interceptions?

Apparently you didn't watch him. Statistically he threw 5 more TDs and 7 less INts than his rookie year- that is a HUGE improvement but it's about more than the stats. His play in big moments in games, leading us back in many games late is where he took that biggest steps. he never led a real comeback win in 2009, in 2010 he led 4 or 5 of them.


Man, I hardly have enough time in the day to get on my own teams forums.... Let alone troll on others.

Yet you have enough time in your busy day to post nonsense like that.


Actually I believe Henne's stats would end up being even better then Sanchez. I believe neither has proven anything, but with Henne, if not for the way Henning has handled him, he would right now be a very serviceable to good QB.

Yes, the same Dan henning who once had jake Delhomme run his offense top the SB but it was all Henning's fault why henne stunk. I guess that's why Chad P stunk in 2008- oh wait, he was 2nd in MVP voting.


LOL

Also Henne was having a year where, like the fins as a whole, James Harrison blatantly knocks a pass down and falls on it. Ruled incomplete. NFL reviews it and calls it an INT LOL WTF? Sanchez might have had atleast 10 dropped picks. I can count 5 from sean smith and 2 from jason allen. Henne wasn't getting lucky there, Sanchez was. Overall I didn't see much progression from either.

Sanchez threw TWO "INTs" against GB, neither was an interception. On both our receivers caught and went down only to have the ball ripped out after they were down. Should have been Jets ball but at the very least they should have been fumbles.

If you didn't see progress from sanchez you just don't have any idea what you are watching.

nyjunc
05-10-2011, 05:09 PM
I think I remember reading that Sanchez actually had the most dropped interceptions in the entire league, while Henne had the fewest.

You can believe that nonsense all you want, EVERY QB has dropped INTs. Do we now award "what if" stats? b/c Sanchez lost 2 INTs that weren't INTs and he lost numerous Tds to drops including two by Holmes that probably cost us 2 wins.

Nublar7
05-10-2011, 05:15 PM
You can believe that nonsense all you want, EVERY QB has dropped INTs. Do we now award "what if" stats? b/c Sanchez lost 2 INTs that weren't INTs and he lost numerous Tds to drops including two by Holmes that probably cost us 2 wins.

Sanchez had 15 dropped interceptions while Henne only had one, I wouldn't call that nonsense, that is just pure luck. If you think Sanchez will be that lucky again, or that Henne will be that unlucky, you are kidding yourself. It is a problem Sanchez has that should scare the living hell out of you.

nyjunc
05-10-2011, 05:18 PM
Sanchez had 15 dropped interceptions while Henne only had one, I wouldn't call that nonsense, that is just pure luck. If you think Sanchez will be that lucky again, or that Henne will be that unlucky, you are kidding yourself. It is a problem Sanchez has that should scare the living hell out of you.

Those are subjective stats that mean absolutely nothing. Does he get credot for TDs dropped? does he get credit for the INTs that shouldn't have been INTs? These are garbage what if stats.

I have zero worries about our QB, we are set for the next decade barring disastrous injury.

Phinatic8u
05-10-2011, 05:55 PM
Apparently you didn't watch him. Statistically he threw 5 more TDs and 7 less INts than his rookie year- that is a HUGE improvement but it's about more than the stats. His play in big moments in games, leading us back in many games late is where he took that biggest steps. he never led a real comeback win in 2009, in 2010 he led 4 or 5 of them.



Yet you have enough time in your busy day to post nonsense like that.



Yes, the same Dan henning who once had jake Delhomme run his offense top the SB but it was all Henning's fault why henne stunk. I guess that's why Chad P stunk in 2008- oh wait, he was 2nd in MVP voting.



Sanchez threw TWO "INTs" against GB, neither was an interception. On both our receivers caught and went down only to have the ball ripped out after they were down. Should have been Jets ball but at the very least they should have been fumbles.

If you didn't see progress from sanchez you just don't have any idea what you are watching.

Below 60 completion % is horrible no matter how you slice it.

Sanchez is a average QB no matter what. Throw up bull**** like "Henne never won anything meaningful" **** what has Sanchez won? Nothing. Look at his numbers during the playoffs, there ****ing horrid.

Phinatic8u
05-10-2011, 05:56 PM
Those are subjective stats that mean absolutely nothing. Does he get credot for TDs dropped? does he get credit for the INTs that shouldn't have been INTs? These are garbage what if stats.

I have zero worries about our QB, we are set for the next decade barring disastrous injury.

:lol: decade of average QB play. I can't wait for this decade

Phinatic8u
05-10-2011, 06:00 PM
Fitz is a better QB than Sanchez & Henne. **** playoff wins or like you call them junc, "meaningful" games :lol:

He's a better QB. Better everything on a worse team. Less talent, better #s, better everything. I don't need a website to tell me that I use my eye.

Sanchez isn't a elite Qb or will he ever be a elite QB.

sharp
05-10-2011, 06:03 PM
I'm saying what Nublar is saying. Also the claims you made on two of Sanchez's INTs are subjective. It goes either way. When I complain about James Harrison dropping the ball on the ground, it being called incomplete.. Then reversed by the NFL to an INT, when its clearly not nor was it called that, reflects on stats and looks worst for a QB who throws a couple more INTs than TDs.

Also Sanchez throwing a 70 yard TD pass to Braylon Edwards and Jason Allen falling down, doesn't make me say, "Hey look man Sanchez looks great, he couldn't have done that last year."

I see that you don't like luck being a part of football but it is, or maybe you do believe luck plays a role, just not for your team. Sanchez didn't do anything special this past season for me. Makes a good couple of plays here, makes a bad couple there, and basically just nothing great. Last year those were picks for Sanchez, this past year they weren't.

Is it superbowl or fail this year? Just wondering, not harping. Two straight AFC championships, both losses, you would have to say atleast a superbowl apperance needs to happen this year to mark progression.

Vaark
05-10-2011, 07:05 PM
The irony is that while it still appears Sanchez was a reach at 5, had they stayed at 17, just about where Josh Freeman was predicted to go, they could have ended up with a real franchise QB and for the Fins it would be "woe is me" :idk:

catapano
05-10-2011, 07:10 PM
Because Rex knows what Sparanos wifes feet look like in open top shoes.

Ruby2
05-10-2011, 09:32 PM
lol @ the homers who continue to think that Henne is even in the same stratosphere as Sanchez.

Sanchez isn't great (yet) but shows tremendous leadership, the ability to lead a team to victory in the 4th quarter, and has come up big time and time again.

Throw your stupid passer rating away, Henne has done none of that.

Henne might not even be a starter after this year. Sanchez, baring injury is locked in at the helm for the next 5 years.

You guys need to wake up.

whizafriz
05-10-2011, 11:36 PM
Those are subjective stats that mean absolutely nothing. Does he get credot for TDs dropped? does he get credit for the INTs that shouldn't have been INTs? These are garbage what if stats.

I have zero worries about our QB, we are set for the next decade barring disastrous injury.

I think what it comes down to is, most of the reasons Henne stinks is more because of the system hes been under, while the reasons Sanchez stinks is because of...Sanchez. And yet theyre similar in statistics? I wouldnt sit well with that.

One thing I will give Sanchez over Henne any day of the week is that he def plays with more passion. Just be careful when that passion is a very raw, int-prone, win by the skin of your teeth passion.

sm0kinfins
05-11-2011, 12:35 AM
How can you say they don't? He's their franchise QB. The Dolphins are still looking for theirs.

They're willing to settle for mediocrity at the QB position. Hell, to them it's a good thing. We had the greatest pure passer of all time and therefore have higher expectations.

In their sad little world, Dirty Sanchez is considered a great QB.

BlueFin
05-11-2011, 02:08 AM
Why are the Jets in the AFC Championship game the last two years and the Dolphins a losing team?

JC
05-11-2011, 03:17 AM
To say that Mark Sanchez is a good quarterback is laughable. An opportunist, maybe, but good? Come on, anybody that watches football can tell you that Sanchez is average, inconsistent, and if not for a few stellar plays that he pulls out of his ***, he would quickly be on the unemployment line. Put him in a situation like Matt Schaub (no defense), Sam Bradford (not a good team), or Josh Freeman (a team that isn't ready to contend yet), and he would be quickly kicked to the curb. Given all of Henne's blunders, he's at least been able to have some great passing days. Henne's rating is higher than Sanchez's so far.

Henne: 61.1% completions
Sanchez: 54.4% completions

With the same averages per attempt, Henne manages to complete almost 7% more passes than Sanchez.

Henne's career: 27TD 33INT
Sanchez's career: 29TD 33INT

Not only does Henne complete more passes than Sanchez with the same YPA, his TD and INT totals are very similar to Sanchez, the so-called "superstar quarterback."

Henne: 6 career 300-yard games
Sanchez: 2 career 300-yard games

Henne: 15 games completing over 60% of his passes
Sanchez: 7 games completing over 60% of his passes

Another stat to add about Henne is that he has completed a higher percentage than Sanchez while also throwing nearly 100 more passes.

Henne: 9 fumbles in 2 years
Sanches: 19 fumbles in 2 years

Sanchez is a bigger liability in the pocket than Henne is.

So what does Sanchez have over Henne? A better defense, more offensive weapons, a better offensive line, and a better running game.

There is no way that a guy like Sanchez should even be considered as a reason why the Jets win. Has Sanchez been adequate for having a great defense and a reliable rushing attack? Absolutely. Is he a leader? Quite possibly. Is he a good quarterback? Maybe some day, but certainly not now.

Mark Sanchez = Immensely Overrated

nyjunc
05-11-2011, 08:43 AM
Below 60 completion % is horrible no matter how you slice it.

Sanchez is a average QB no matter what. Throw up bull**** like "Henne never won anything meaningful" **** what has Sanchez won? Nothing. Look at his numbers during the playoffs, there ****ing horrid.

His comp % was bad w/o a doubt but would you rather have a QB that dumps the ball off on 3rd and 8 to get his comp % up or a guy who will take shots downfield? There was another thread posted this morning about deep passes, Sanchez attempted 34 more deep throws than Henne(and still completed a higher % on those deep throws). As Sanchez develops his comp % will climb up to respectable percentages but in the meantime as he is developing he has shown an ability to make plays when they matter most and that means more than comp %.

What has Sanchez won? He's won 4 ROAD playoff games, no one in NFL HISTORY has won more.

His #s during postseason are horrid? Really?

It's still about more than the #s but he has good playoff #s:

95-157, 61%, 1155 yds, 9 TDs, 3 INTs, 94.3 rating, 4-2 record

This is horrid?

This is one area he compares to Dan Marino(again, this is why we don't just look at stats. I am just posting these b/c of the "horrid" #s you say he has in postseason).

Dan's postseason history(18 games): 385-687, 4510 yds, 32 TDs, 24 INTs, 77.1 rating, 8-10 record


:lol: decade of average QB play. I can't wait for this decade

I can't either, we are off to a great start. It's going to be fun as you guys keep watching Sanchez winning in January.


Fitz is a better QB than Sanchez & Henne. **** playoff wins or like you call them junc, "meaningful" games :lol:

He's a better QB. Better everything on a worse team. Less talent, better #s, better everything. I don't need a website to tell me that I use my eye.

Sanchez isn't a elite Qb or will he ever be a elite QB.

Get Buddy Nix on the phone and ask him if he'd trade Sanchez for Fitz.

You are just looking at meaningles sats from meaningless games. The man played under no pressure and put up some decent #s. It amazes me how people can watch as much football as they do and still not know how to evaluate a QB.

Sanchez isn't elite, we'll see how that goes. He may never be elite but you don't have to be elite to win SBs.


I'm saying what Nublar is saying. Also the claims you made on two of Sanchez's INTs are subjective. It goes either way. When I complain about James Harrison dropping the ball on the ground, it being called incomplete.. Then reversed by the NFL to an INT, when its clearly not nor was it called that, reflects on stats and looks worst for a QB who throws a couple more INTs than TDs.

Also Sanchez throwing a 70 yard TD pass to Braylon Edwards and Jason Allen falling down, doesn't make me say, "Hey look man Sanchez looks great, he couldn't have done that last year."

I see that you don't like luck being a part of football but it is, or maybe you do believe luck plays a role, just not for your team. Sanchez didn't do anything special this past season for me. Makes a good couple of plays here, makes a bad couple there, and basically just nothing great. Last year those were picks for Sanchez, this past year they weren't.

Is it superbowl or fail this year? Just wondering, not harping. Two straight AFC championships, both losses, you would have to say atleast a superbowl apperance needs to happen this year to mark progression.

I brought up the GB examples after the whining about the Pitt example.

I love hearing about how jason Allen "fell down", he was completely fakes out. It was a perfect throw to allow his WR to make a play. I always laugh when I hear about Allen falling down as if Jets defenders weren't falling down all night as well.

Didn't do anything special other than leading his team to the conf title game AGAIN, beating the hottest team in the div rd on the road AGAIN, leading 5 late game drives for wins but other than that he did nothing special- he was just along for the ride:lol:

Anything short of the SB will be a disappointment but making the playoffs and advancing would not be a failure. Isn't it interesting how you think if we make the title game again and lose it will be a failure while you guys haven't been to a title game since 1992 and haven't even been close to one since 1994?


The irony is that while it still appears Sanchez was a reach at 5, had they stayed at 17, just about where Josh Freeman was predicted to go, they could have ended up with a real franchise QB and for the Fins it would be "woe is me" :idk:

It is woe is me for the phins fans, you guys are scared to death and you know it. Freeman is a good QB and I would have been happy w/ him if we didn't get sanchez but let's see what josh can do when he plays in a meaningful game. he lost his biggest game as a starter last year- the only one that could be considered big in losing to the Lions at home late in the year giving Detroit their first road win in 3 years.


They're willing to settle for mediocrity at the QB position. Hell, to them it's a good thing. We had the greatest pure passer of all time and therefore have higher expectations.

In their sad little world, Dirty Sanchez is considered a great QB.

Marino is an all time great but had 1 SB app in 20 years to show for it. I'd rather have a lesser stat QB that wins and Sanchez will have that opportunity in the coming years. mark will never be close to Dan as a passer(not many are) but w/ 1 ring he'll surpass him and that will be good enough for me.


To say that Mark Sanchez is a good quarterback is laughable. An opportunist, maybe, but good? Come on, anybody that watches football can tell you that Sanchez is average, inconsistent, and if not for a few stellar plays that he pulls out of his ***, he would quickly be on the unemployment line. Put him in a situation like Matt Schaub (no defense), Sam Bradford (not a good team), or Josh Freeman (a team that isn't ready to contend yet), and he would be quickly kicked to the curb. Given all of Henne's blunders, he's at least been able to have some great passing days. Henne's rating is higher than Sanchez's so far.

Henne: 61.1% completions
Sanchez: 54.4% completions

With the same averages per attempt, Henne manages to complete almost 7% more passes than Sanchez.

Henne's career: 27TD 33INT
Sanchez's career: 29TD 33INT

Not only does Henne complete more passes than Sanchez with the same YPA, his TD and INT totals are very similar to Sanchez, the so-called "superstar quarterback."

Henne: 6 career 300-yard games
Sanchez: 2 career 300-yard games

Henne: 15 games completing over 60% of his passes
Sanchez: 7 games completing over 60% of his passes

Another stat to add about Henne is that he has completed a higher percentage than Sanchez while also throwing nearly 100 more passes.

Henne: 9 fumbles in 2 years
Sanches: 19 fumbles in 2 years

Sanchez is a bigger liability in the pocket than Henne is.

So what does Sanchez have over Henne? A better defense, more offensive weapons, a better offensive line, and a better running game.

There is no way that a guy like Sanchez should even be considered as a reason why the Jets win. Has Sanchez been adequate for having a great defense and a reliable rushing attack? Absolutely. Is he a leader? Quite possibly. Is he a good quarterback? Maybe some day, but certainly not now.

Mark Sanchez = Immensely Overrated

More fantasy #s, it's so sad that football fans do not have a clue what they are watching.

How many of those fumbles were lost? That means more than fumbling and not losing it, right?

It's funny how how you say he has a better D, more offensive weapons, a better OL and better Running game. All offseason I heard how Miami's D would be better w/ Nolan, how your OL was better, how your WRs were better, how your RBs were better and how your QB was better but when sanchez outperforms henne and our team outperforms your team(again) I hear these excuses.

The biggest difference btw our 2 teams is we have a better HC and coaching staff and our QB ca play under prressure.

JC
05-11-2011, 06:14 PM
Young quarterbacks that are better than Sanchez: Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford.

Other quarterbacks that are better than Sanchez: Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tom Brady, Kyle Orton, Joe Flacco, Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Schaub, David Garrard, Matt Cassel, Jason Campbell, Philip Rivers, Tony Romo, Eli Manning, Michael Vick, Jay Cutler, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Matt Hasselbeck, Shaun Hill.

Maybe Sanchez didn't hurt the Jets any, but he certainly didn't carry the team with his arm. Many would pick Sanchez over Henne, and I probably would too, but to tell me that Sanchez is far ahead of Henne is garbage; to tell me that Sanchez has done enough to remove doubt about his ability to play quarterback is also garbage.

I give him credit for leading his team, but don't talk him up like he is anything special, because he really isn't.

Rex
05-11-2011, 06:27 PM
LMAO @ Dolphin fans hating on Sanchez. It's all good. I still hate on Brady. Good luck with your QB, you're going to need it.

Enjoy rooting against sanchez in the playoffs for the forseeable future.

Ruby2
05-11-2011, 06:44 PM
Young quarterbacks that are better than Sanchez: Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford.

Other quarterbacks that are better than Sanchez: Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tom Brady, Kyle Orton, Joe Flacco, Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Schaub, David Garrard, Matt Cassel, Jason Campbell, Philip Rivers, Tony Romo, Eli Manning, Michael Vick, Jay Cutler, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Matt Hasselbeck, Shaun Hill.

Maybe Sanchez didn't hurt the Jets any, but he certainly didn't carry the team with his arm. Many would pick Sanchez over Henne, and I probably would too, but to tell me that Sanchez is far ahead of Henne is garbage; to tell me that Sanchez has done enough to remove doubt about his ability to play quarterback is also garbage.

I give him credit for leading his team, but don't talk him up like he is anything special, because he really isn't.

Carson Palmer, Garrard, Campbell, Hasselbeck, Shaun Hill

Wow, talk about denial

Good stuff man.

Kistner10
05-11-2011, 06:47 PM
I'd agree that Palmer and Garrard are better than Sanchez. The other 3 no way.

Valandui
05-11-2011, 07:10 PM
lol @ the homers who continue to think that Henne is even in the same stratosphere as Sanchez.

Sanchez isn't great (yet) but shows tremendous leadership, the ability to lead a team to victory in the 4th quarter, and has come up big time and time again.

Throw your stupid passer rating away, Henne has done none of that.

Henne might not even be a starter after this year. Sanchez, baring injury is locked in at the helm for the next 5 years.

You guys need to wake up.

That's just because you used a top ten pick on him and want to prove that he doesn't suck. It's like the girl who sleeps with a guy on the first date but wants to prove to everyone that she isn't a slut so she stays with the guy even though it's an abusive situation. That's the Jest relationship with Sanchez.

Dolfan2364
05-11-2011, 07:11 PM
Tony has a wallet made of Chupacabra leather

Ricky_Fan34
05-11-2011, 08:27 PM
Main reason is QB play. Henne choked down the stretch in games. Sanchez either managed the game to the point that they weren't in position to lose in the end or else he put together a game winning drive. That's the main difference.

JC
05-11-2011, 10:03 PM
I'd agree that Palmer and Garrard are better than Sanchez. The other 3 no way.

Shaun Hill has a career quarterback rating above 84. Hasselbeck, if he can stay healthy, is still better than Sanchez. Campbell has 68 touchdowns in his career compared to 46 interceptions.

So yes, I would still take Hasselbeck, Hill, and Campbell over Mark Sanchez. All of them are better passers than Sanchez.

JC
05-11-2011, 10:05 PM
That's just because you used a top ten pick on him and want to prove that he doesn't suck. It's like the girl who sleeps with a guy on the first date but wants to prove to everyone that she isn't a slut so she stays with the guy even though it's an abusive situation. That's the Jest relationship with Sanchez.

So true. It is risky for him to start but also risky for him to sit because he was a first round pick. The Jets are a very good team, but quarterback is not one of their strongest positions.

sm0kinfins
05-11-2011, 10:38 PM
Marino is an all time great but had 1 SB app in 20 years to show for it. I'd rather have a lesser stat QB that wins and Sanchez will have that opportunity in the coming years. mark will never be close to Dan as a passer(not many are) but w/ 1 ring he'll surpass him and that will be good enough for me.

So becasue he has no ring he's not a winner and just a glorified stat padder? I guess the supporting cast means nothing in football... Come on man, this isn't the NBA. One man, regardless of the position, cannot turn a team around.

Did you seriously say that 1 ring and Sanchez is a better QB than Dan Marino? Just like Dilfer? Or Brad Johnson? Howzabout Mark Rypien? Or Jeff Hostetler? Maybe Doug Williams? What about Phil Simms?

Rings are a reflection of a team. Not 1 man.

And you claim to know football... :rolleyes2:

SR 7
05-11-2011, 10:56 PM
It's the AFC East, we all play each other tough!

lol when do we play the Pats tough? I can remember more blow outs on us than close games.

Ricky_Fan34
05-11-2011, 11:23 PM
So becasue he has no ring he's not a winner and just a glorified stat padder? I guess the supporting cast means nothing in football... Come on man, this isn't the NBA. One man, regardless of the position, cannot turn a team around.

Did you seriously say that 1 ring and Sanchez is a better QB than Dan Marino? Just like Dilfer? Or Brad Johnson? Howzabout Mark Rypien? Or Jeff Hostetler? Maybe Doug Williams? What about Phil Simms?

Rings are a reflection of a team. Not 1 man.

And you claim to know football... :rolleyes2:
I think he was saying with one ring he'll surpass him in number of rings. Not sure, but I think so. It's absurd to say that everyone with a superbowl ring is a better QB than Dan Marino...

Vaark
05-11-2011, 11:24 PM
jesthomers are duped into believing Sanchez is better than he is since their only real point of delusional reference is a grossly overreated mediocre career QB who once made a typical prediction that ended up coming true in the 2nd game of a 2 game post season..

SoCal Finatic
05-12-2011, 08:10 AM
lol when do we play the Pats tough? I can remember more blow outs on us than close games.

Sidenote SR-7, You're the only person I know with the exact same favorite teams, creepy!

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 08:51 AM
Young quarterbacks that are better than Sanchez: Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford.

Other quarterbacks that are better than Sanchez: Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tom Brady, Kyle Orton, Joe Flacco, Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Schaub, David Garrard, Matt Cassel, Jason Campbell, Philip Rivers, Tony Romo, Eli Manning, Michael Vick, Jay Cutler, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Matt Hasselbeck, Shaun Hill.

Maybe Sanchez didn't hurt the Jets any, but he certainly didn't carry the team with his arm. Many would pick Sanchez over Henne, and I probably would too, but to tell me that Sanchez is far ahead of Henne is garbage; to tell me that Sanchez has done enough to remove doubt about his ability to play quarterback is also garbage.

I give him credit for leading his team, but don't talk him up like he is anything special, because he really isn't.

:lol2::lol2:

The only young QB I'd put ahead of him is Bradford and I think Bradford is going to be a top 3 QB some day. Freeman and sanchez are on a similar level and Stafford actually has to play to be compared to him.

vets:

Sanchez is better than Fitz, Orton, Palmer, Schaub(just a stat guy), Garrard, Cassell, Campbell, Hasslebeck(at this stage of his career) and Hill.

He is on par w/ Flacco, Eli(threw away his teams season last year), Romo, Cutler,

Well below: Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Ben, Rivers


That's just because you used a top ten pick on him and want to prove that he doesn't suck. It's like the girl who sleeps with a guy on the first date but wants to prove to everyone that she isn't a slut so she stays with the guy even though it's an abusive situation. That's the Jest relationship with Sanchez.

It's more about a jealous rivals fans that have been waiting for a franchise QB for 12 years now while we found one who has helped lead us to 2 titlew games in his first 2 years.


So becasue he has no ring he's not a winner and just a glorified stat padder? I guess the supporting cast means nothing in football... Come on man, this isn't the NBA. One man, regardless of the position, cannot turn a team around.

Did you seriously say that 1 ring and Sanchez is a better QB than Dan Marino? Just like Dilfer? Or Brad Johnson? Howzabout Mark Rypien? Or Jeff Hostetler? Maybe Doug Williams? What about Phil Simms?

Rings are a reflection of a team. Not 1 man.

And you claim to know football... :rolleyes2:

I figured it was too comlicated for some of you guys to understand what I wrote. I have Marino in my all time top 5 so that's all I really have to respond to this nonsensical post.

fin13
05-12-2011, 11:04 AM
:lol2::lol2:

The only young QB I'd put ahead of him is Bradford and I think Bradford is going to be a top 3 QB some day. Freeman and sanchez are on a similar level and Stafford actually has to play to be compared to him.

vets:

Sanchez is better than Fitz, Orton, Palmer, Schaub(just a stat guy), Garrard, Cassell, Campbell, Hasslebeck(at this stage of his career) and Hill.

He is on par w/ Flacco, Eli(threw away his teams season last year), Romo, Cutler,

Well below: Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Ben, Rivers



It's more about a jealous rivals fans that have been waiting for a franchise QB for 12 years now while we found one who has helped lead us to 2 titlew games in his first 2 years.



I figured it was too comlicated for some of you guys to understand what I wrote. I have Marino in my all time top 5 so that's all I really have to respond to this nonsensical post.

If you watched Sanchez in the AFC title game, as soon as the Steelers took the running game away, Sanchez was done.
Hell Henne played the steelers better.
I'm not buying the Sanchez Kool-aid and I don't buy the Jets superbowl bound crap.
When the chips are down the Jets loose and against the Fins the Jets loose.

NY8123
05-12-2011, 11:13 AM
jesthomers are duped into believing Sanchez is better than he is since their only real point of delusional reference is a grossly overreated mediocre career QB who once made a typical prediction that ended up coming true in the 2nd game of a 2 game post season..

Which is subsequent proof that "even a blind Squirrel finds a nut once in awhile!"

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 11:17 AM
If you watched Sanchez in the AFC title game, as soon as the Steelers took the running game away, Sanchez was done.
Hell Henne played the steelers better.
I'm not buying the Sanchez Kool-aid and I don't buy the Jets superbowl bound crap.
When the chips are down the Jets loose and against the Fins the Jets loose.

I guess that's why he brought them back to w/in 5 in the title game?

Henne lost at HOME in a meaningless reg season game, Henne had the ball in his hands w/ a chance to get into FG range on the last possession and he couldn't get a 1st down.

Clearly the Jets have been losing when the chips have been down which is why they made the title game each of the last 2 years unlike Henne and Miami who have won big game after big game:lol:

Locke
05-12-2011, 11:22 AM
Did I honestly just read that Sanchez is on par with Jay Cutler, Tony Romo, and is better than Matt Schaub...?

:rimshot:

Good joke man. You should start doing stand up...

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 11:27 AM
Did I honestly just read that Sanchez is on par with Jay Cutler, Tony Romo, and is better than Matt Schaub...?

:rimshot:

Good joke man. You should start doing stand up...

All stat guys who cannot play under pressure, if you want to win fantasy leagues you take those 3, if you want to win real games you take Sanchez who does not melt under pressure. Those 3 QBs have a combined 2 playoff wins both at home against inferior teams. Sanchez has 4 playoff wins all on the road. That means more than some silly fantasy #s.

Dolphasaur
05-12-2011, 11:37 AM
Those 3 QBs have a combined 2 playoff wins both at home against inferior teams. Sanchez has 4 playoff wins all on the road. That means more than some silly fantasy #s.

I'd just like to point out that, although four road playoff victories is impressive, that stat alone does not really mean a whole lot. I'm sure that Manning would have 4+ victories as well had his team not generally clinched home-field advantage for the majority of their playoff appearances. Mark Sanchez was put in a position to acquire 4 playoff road victories; a lot of QB's do not get a similar chance.

To summarize: It is an impressive stat, but it is also context-dependent.

BlueFin
05-12-2011, 11:40 AM
If you put Henne on the Jets and Sanchez on the Dolphins, the team results would be exactly the same.

Wow, you actually believe that don't you?

I remember being at a Dolphins practice in the early 00's, and a reporter came in the stands to interview fans and interviewed this guy next to me about Jay Fiedler, the fan was insistent that Jay Fiedler could lead this team to a championship, I chimed in from behind that Fiedler would NEVER lead this team anywhere....and the guy nearly wanted to fight over it.

I can understand the optimism of wanting to believe in your team, I even bought a Henne jersey last year when I went down there for the Jet game, but at some point you have to recognize whats right in front of you.

Sanchez is far better than Henne.

Vaark
05-12-2011, 11:50 AM
Wow, you actually believe that don't you?

I remember being at a Dolphins practice in the early 00's, and a reporter came in the stands to interview fans and interviewed this guy next to me about Jay Fiedler, the fan was insistent that Jay Fiedler could lead this team to a championship, I chimed in from behind that Fiedler would NEVER lead this team anywhere....and the guy nearly wanted to fight over it.

I can understand the optimism of wanting to believe in your team, I even bought a Henne jersey last year when I went down there for the Jet game, but at some point you have to recognize whats right in front of you.

Sanchez is far better than Henne.

Dysentery is better than colitis but if you're suffering through either of them, doesn't matter since they both suck :idk:

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 11:51 AM
I'd just like to point out that, although four road playoff victories is impressive, that stat alone does not really mean a whole lot. I'm sure that Manning would have 4+ victories as well had his team not generally clinched home-field advantage for the majority of their playoff appearances. Mark Sanchez was put in a position to acquire 4 playoff road victories; a lot of QB's do not get a similar chance.

To summarize: It is an impressive stat, but it is also context-dependent.

Peyton is 2-5 on the road in postseason w/ a team that should have been a dynasty team. I'm not comparing Sanchez to Peyton I'm just showing how hard it is to win on the road in January.

Put in a position? He's beaten the 2 hottest teams in the NFL entering postseason on the road in the last 2 postseasons and has beaten teams led by Philip Rivers, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. I don't think people understand just how impressive the Jets run has been the past 2 years.

SkapePhin
05-12-2011, 12:36 PM
Peyton is 2-5 on the road in postseason w/ a team that should have been a dynasty team. I'm not comparing Sanchez to Peyton I'm just showing how hard it is to win on the road in January.

Put in a position? He's beaten the 2 hottest teams in the NFL entering postseason on the road in the last 2 postseasons and has beaten teams led by Philip Rivers, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. I don't think people understand just how impressive the Jets run has been the past 2 years.

It ain't impressive unless it ends in a Superbowl victory...

NY8123
05-12-2011, 12:47 PM
Peyton is 2-5 on the road in postseason w/ a team that should have been a dynasty team. I'm not comparing Sanchez to Peyton I'm just showing how hard it is to win on the road in January.

Put in a position? He's beaten the 2 hottest teams in the NFL entering postseason on the road in the last 2 postseasons and has beaten teams led by Philip Rivers, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. I don't think people understand just how impressive the Jets run has been the past 2 years.

The Jets running game and defense beat these teams not Sanchez.

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 12:59 PM
The Jets running game and defense beat these teams not Sanchez.

Many teams have had Ds as good or better paired w/ running games as good or better and not won as much in January. If Sanchez doesn't play well we aren't going 4-2 in postseason. The only bad game he had was at Indy in the WC rd and he played well in the 2nd half making some big throws to win that game.

Locke
05-12-2011, 01:15 PM
All stat guys who cannot play under pressure, if you want to win fantasy leagues you take those 3, if you want to win real games you take Sanchez who does not melt under pressure. Those 3 QBs have a combined 2 playoff wins both at home against inferior teams. Sanchez has 4 playoff wins all on the road. That means more than some silly fantasy #s.

If you want to win games, you pick the guy who throws TDs and avoids INTs, period. You put Jay Cutler or Tony Romo on the Jets, and you guys are in the Super Bowl the last two seasons. I can't believe you are putting team achievements, like having a top 5 defense cover up a mediocre offense, into consideration when ranking QBs. You make a living on this site calling everyone homers, and here you are trying to justify your average QB by saying "he doesn't fold under pressure." Who gives a sh*t that he doesn't throw TDs, right? As long as he doesn't throw the back-breaking INT he is a top QB in this league. You know who else didn't fold under pressure but did not throw TDs? Jay Fiedler. No one in their right mind would ever accuse Fiedler of being a top QB in this league. Fiedler was a offensive care-taker, living off the success of a strong defense. Sounds familiar if you ask me.

You try to discount stats by trivializing them with the term fantasy. That is extremely disingenuous at best, downright deceitful at worst. A QB's worth is DETERMINED by his ability to put up those stats. By your QB ranking system, Pat Devlin should have been a day 1-2 pick. The guy didn't fold under pressure. He didn't have the greatest stats, but he didn't lose his team games. But he went undrafted. Why? It couldn't be that NFL teams didn't think he had the ability to put up those stats since they are nothing but fantasy numbers anyways. This is a great mystery. I mean, he didn't really fold under pressure, so he should have gone somewhere on day 1 or 2 of the draft. Guess we'll never know.

I'm not saying Sanchez sucks like a bunch of posters here like to say. He is an average QB taking advantage of being on a very talented team. However, trying to say that Sanchez is better than Tony Romo or Jay Cutler, former Probowl and All-Pro QBs, is simple homerism. We get it, you like your team, you guys were in the AFC championship twice in a row, blah blah blah. Take off the green-colored shades though...

JC
05-12-2011, 01:36 PM
Peyton is 2-5 on the road in postseason w/ a team that should have been a dynasty team. I'm not comparing Sanchez to Peyton I'm just showing how hard it is to win on the road in January.

Put in a position? He's beaten the 2 hottest teams in the NFL entering postseason on the road in the last 2 postseasons and has beaten teams led by Philip Rivers, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. I don't think people understand just how impressive the Jets run has been the past 2 years.

I don't think you understand this fully. The difference between Tom Brady/Peyton Manning is that they are great quarterbacks, and Mark Sanchez is not. I can't tell you the last time that Peyton had a lock down defense, while Tom Brady won a lot of his playoff games with a no-name group of receivers. If you put the receivers that Miami had in 2007 with New England or Indianapolis, and they will still flourish. You put that same group of receivers with Mark Sanchez, and they do not.

Mark Sanchez does not command an offense; he doesn't even command the field. I guarantee you, of the quarterbacks I listed ahead of Sanchez (there were a lot of them), defenses would much rather play Mark Sanchez than many or all of those quarterbacks.

Sanchez behind center does not scare anybody. He doesn't impress many. He has weapons, which give him suitable means for doing what he is supposed to do. He does not go above and beyond his calling as a quarterback, where a guy like Tom Brady does, and a guy like Peyton Manning does. He has a better team in place around him (on paper) than those teams do. What those teams have that Sanchez and the Jets do not is continuity, composure, class, professionalism, intelligence, and any other adjective you can think of that describes a functional team.

And by bringing out that Peyton is 2-5 in the playoffs is comparing him to Sanchez. You think that playoff wins makes the quarterback, whereas they just make a football player. The quarterback position demands more than Mark Sanchez has given it, and he will probably never be a dominant passer in this league.

If a good quarterback was actually on your team, you would have won two Super Bowls by now. If Manning or Brady had that defense and that running attack, they would have been a bonafide dynasty.

JC
05-12-2011, 01:45 PM
Many teams have had Ds as good or better paired w/ running games as good or better and not won as much in January. If Sanchez doesn't play well we aren't going 4-2 in postseason. The only bad game he had was at Indy in the WC rd and he played well in the 2nd half making some big throws to win that game.

Some people think stats are meaningless numbers for fantasy football. Better stats = more scoring. Sanchez hasn't been forced to put up remotely decent stats because his defense holds their opponents to such low totals.

More points being scored translates to more wins.

Better passer rating translates to more wins.

Higher completion percentage leads to more wins.

Low interception total leads to more wins.

Stats are a very big part of football, and though they might not always tell the story, the majority of the time stats will paint a picture of a game or a season. Like a team that dominates time of possession will win a lot of games. A team that is +4 in a game for turnovers will win most of those games.

It even takes stats to get the final score.
Quarterback #1: 3 TD, Kicker #1: 4/4 PAT 1/2 FG, RB#1: Rush TD
Quarterback #2: 1TD 2 INT, Kicker #2: 2/2 PAT 2/2 FG, RB#1: Rush TD

Team 1: 31
Team 2: 20

In your disdain for stats, you even mention another stat, which is the number of wins. While yes, Sanchez was the quarterback during those wins, the average NFL watcher can tell that if not for a complete team around him, Sanchez would not have carried that team remotely close to the AFC Championship game.

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 02:00 PM
If you want to win games, you pick the guy who throws TDs and avoids INTs, period. You put Jay Cutler or Tony Romo on the Jets, and you guys are in the Super Bowl the last two seasons. I can't believe you are putting team achievements, like having a top 5 defense cover up a mediocre offense, into consideration when ranking QBs. You make a living on this site calling everyone homers, and here you are trying to justify your average QB by saying "he doesn't fold under pressure." Who gives a sh*t that he doesn't throw TDs, right? As long as he doesn't throw the back-breaking INT he is a top QB in this league. You know who else didn't fold under pressure but did not throw TDs? Jay Fiedler. No one in their right mind would ever accuse Fiedler of being a top QB in this league. Fiedler was a offensive care-taker, living off the success of a strong defense. Sounds familiar if you ask me.

You try to discount stats by trivializing them with the term fantasy. That is extremely disingenuous at best, downright deceitful at worst. A QB's worth is DETERMINED by his ability to put up those stats. By your QB ranking system, Pat Devlin should have been a day 1-2 pick. The guy didn't fold under pressure. He didn't have the greatest stats, but he didn't lose his team games. But he went undrafted. Why? It couldn't be that NFL teams didn't think he had the ability to put up those stats since they are nothing but fantasy numbers anyways. This is a great mystery. I mean, he didn't really fold under pressure, so he should have gone somewhere on day 1 or 2 of the draft. Guess we'll never know.

I'm not saying Sanchez sucks like a bunch of posters here like to say. He is an average QB taking advantage of being on a very talented team. However, trying to say that Sanchez is better than Tony Romo or Jay Cutler, former Probowl and All-Pro QBs, is simple homerism. We get it, you like your team, you guys were in the AFC championship twice in a row, blah blah blah. Take off the green-colored shades though...

You pick the guy who makes plays when it matters most, it does nothing for me if a Cutler is putting up #s and losing. if he is throwing TDs in blowout games then he's nowhere to be found in crunchtime.

Put Cutler or Romo on the Jets and we don't make the title game either of the last 2 years, those guys try to do too much and will make mistakes to cost their team. Cutler has one playoff app w/ his lone playoff win being at home over a 7-9 team, Romo has 3 playoff apps w/ one playoff win at home over a decent team. They both had teams capable of getting to the playoffs more and winning more once in the playoffs.

The position is about winning not about fantasy #s. Cutler has thrown more TDs, he's also thrown more INTs. The last 2 years were Cutlers 4th and 5th seasons in the league and he has thrown 9 more INTs than Sanchez in his 1st and 2nd years as he is developing.

Jay Fiedler was very underarted by spoiled dolphin fans who got used to Marino BUT he also didn't play well in postseason games like sanchez has.

A QBs worth is leading their team, it's not about fantasy #s. Do you think the Chiefs were happy w/ Matt Cassell in 2010? Great stats reg in season but he was brutal at home in the WC rd.

Don't bring up college QBs, it's a different beast in this league. There have been a million great college QBs that couldn't play in the NFL.

Neither Cutler or Romo have ever been all-pro. They have been pro bowlers b/c of some meaningless fantasy #s. You want to know the most meaningful #s?

Postseason:

Sanchez: 95-157, 61%, 1155 yds, 9 TDs, 3 INTs, 94.3 rating, 4-2 record, led O's to average of 20 PPG(never less than 17)

Cutler: 21-42, 50%, 354 yds, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 85 rating, 1-1 record, led O to 18 PPG(35 vs. 7-9 seattle, 0 vs. GB)

Romo: 80-135, 59%, 832 yds, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, 81 rating, 1-3 record, led O to 17 PPG(led O to 3 pts in a playoff game once)


I don't think you understand this fully. The difference between Tom Brady/Peyton Manning is that they are great quarterbacks, and Mark Sanchez is not. I can't tell you the last time that Peyton had a lock down defense, while Tom Brady won a lot of his playoff games with a no-name group of receivers. If you put the receivers that Miami had in 2007 with New England or Indianapolis, and they will still flourish. You put that same group of receivers with Mark Sanchez, and they do not.

Mark Sanchez does not command an offense; he doesn't even command the field. I guarantee you, of the quarterbacks I listed ahead of Sanchez (there were a lot of them), defenses would much rather play Mark Sanchez than many or all of those quarterbacks.

Sanchez behind center does not scare anybody. He doesn't impress many. He has weapons, which give him suitable means for doing what he is supposed to do. He does not go above and beyond his calling as a quarterback, where a guy like Tom Brady does, and a guy like Peyton Manning does. He has a better team in place around him (on paper) than those teams do. What those teams have that Sanchez and the Jets do not is continuity, composure, class, professionalism, intelligence, and any other adjective you can think of that describes a functional team.

And by bringing out that Peyton is 2-5 in the playoffs is comparing him to Sanchez. You think that playoff wins makes the quarterback, whereas they just make a football player. The quarterback position demands more than Mark Sanchez has given it, and he will probably never be a dominant passer in this league.

If a good quarterback was actually on your team, you would have won two Super Bowls by now. If Manning or Brady had that defense and that running attack, they would have been a bonafide dynasty.

Mark Sanchez is NOT a great QB, nowhere will you find me calling him a great QB. He is a GOOD QB right now.

Peyton has had good defenses around him his entire career and the most talent on offense any QB in the history of the game has had over the course of their career.

Mark sanchez was 3-1 w/ Chansi Stuckey as a starting WR in 2009 before they traded for Braylon Edwards- when has Peyton ever played w/ a starting WR the caliber of Chansi Stuckey?

Apparently you missed my point, I never compared Sanchez to Manning. I was pointing out how difficult it is to win on the road and despite having more talented teams Manning is 2-5 vs. 4-2 for Sanchez.

If we had Brady we'd have 2 SBs but there is only one Tom Brady.

Manning has had more talented teams his entire career and has just one SB, this also furthers the point. It's not about stats, those that think that think manning has had a better career than Brady. Same thing on a smaller scale w/ Sanchez against stat guys like Cutler or Romo. The position is about winning.

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 02:06 PM
Some people think stats are meaningless numbers for fantasy football. Better stats = more scoring. Sanchez hasn't been forced to put up remotely decent stats because his defense holds their opponents to such low totals.

More points being scored translates to more wins.

Better passer rating translates to more wins.

Higher completion percentage leads to more wins.

Low interception total leads to more wins.

Stats are a very big part of football, and though they might not always tell the story, the majority of the time stats will paint a picture of a game or a season. Like a team that dominates time of possession will win a lot of games. A team that is +4 in a game for turnovers will win most of those games.

It even takes stats to get the final score.
Quarterback #1: 3 TD, Kicker #1: 4/4 PAT 1/2 FG, RB#1: Rush TD
Quarterback #2: 1TD 2 INT, Kicker #2: 2/2 PAT 2/2 FG, RB#1: Rush TD

Team 1: 31
Team 2: 20

In your disdain for stats, you even mention another stat, which is the number of wins. While yes, Sanchez was the quarterback during those wins, the average NFL watcher can tell that if not for a complete team around him, Sanchez would not have carried that team remotely close to the AFC Championship game.

More points does not always translate to more wins. Stats are based on averages, if team A beats team B 41-10 then the next week loses to team C 10-6 they are averaging 26 PPG but that is deceiving. Look at SD they were ranked 1st and O and 1st in D and they missed the playoffs playing in a weak division. It's not about scoring as much as it is when you are scoring or when you are letting up points. You can win games 41-38 or 10-6, they are still wins. Some games you will have to score 30+, others you may need 10-14 pts.

Stats are useful but you cannot just look at stats w/o the other factors involved, this is why certain fans look foolish bashing sanchez or comparing henne to Sanchez b/c he has similar #s.

Our defense and running game were very inconsistent this year, sanchez and the passing game pulled out 4-5-6 games this season, w/o his stellar play late in games we may have been 7-9 and missing the playoffs.

BlueFin
05-12-2011, 02:09 PM
Dysentery is better than colitis but if you're suffering through either of them, doesn't matter since they both suck :idk:

Well one lead his team to the conference championship game and the cusp of a superbowl in back to back years, the other can't lead a top 5 defense to a winning season.

I'd trade Henne for Sanchez any day of the week, and throw in Jay Fiedler.

Vaark
05-12-2011, 02:15 PM
Well one lead his team to the conference championship game and the cusp of a superbowl in back to back years, the other can't lead a top 5 defense to a winning season.

I'd trade Henne for Sanchez any day of the week, and throw in Jay Fiedler.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Personally I'd package Henne with Sanchez and throw in a 1st rounder for Josh Freeman by comparison

greenandwhite80
05-12-2011, 02:58 PM
Well in my opinion,as a jet fan cannot believe that the fins are the same in anyway as the jets.We are in the same division and in a league where every team has talent,we play each other twice every year.Look at the nfc east one year the giants sweep the boys and get sweeped by the eagles.The next year the boys take one.The eagles split.It happens in every division.The difference is rex looks at the big picture and the dolfans look at the jets as there super bowl!

Ricky_Fan34
05-12-2011, 03:28 PM
Well in my opinion,as a jet fan cannot believe that the fins are the same in anyway as the jets.We are in the same division and in a league where every team has talent,we play each other twice every year.Look at the nfc east one year the giants sweep the boys and get sweeped by the eagles.The next year the boys take one.The eagles split.It happens in every division.The difference is rex looks at the big picture and the dolfans look at the jets as there super bowl!
Like I said, only real difference is that the Jets have a better QB, one who can manage the game and put together a game winning drive if necessary. Miami has just the opposite.

JC
05-12-2011, 03:35 PM
You pick the guy who makes plays when it matters most, it does nothing for me if a Cutler is putting up #s and losing. if he is throwing TDs in blowout games then he's nowhere to be found in crunchtime.

Put Cutler or Romo on the Jets and we don't make the title game either of the last 2 years, those guys try to do too much and will make mistakes to cost their team. Cutler has one playoff app w/ his lone playoff win being at home over a 7-9 team, Romo has 3 playoff apps w/ one playoff win at home over a decent team. They both had teams capable of getting to the playoffs more and winning more once in the playoffs.

The position is about winning not about fantasy #s. Cutler has thrown more TDs, he's also thrown more INTs. The last 2 years were Cutlers 4th and 5th seasons in the league and he has thrown 9 more INTs than Sanchez in his 1st and 2nd years as he is developing.

Jay Fiedler was very underarted by spoiled dolphin fans who got used to Marino BUT he also didn't play well in postseason games like sanchez has.

A QBs worth is leading their team, it's not about fantasy #s. Do you think the Chiefs were happy w/ Matt Cassell in 2010? Great stats reg in season but he was brutal at home in the WC rd.

Don't bring up college QBs, it's a different beast in this league. There have been a million great college QBs that couldn't play in the NFL.

Neither Cutler or Romo have ever been all-pro. They have been pro bowlers b/c of some meaningless fantasy #s. You want to know the most meaningful #s?

Postseason:

Sanchez: 95-157, 61%, 1155 yds, 9 TDs, 3 INTs, 94.3 rating, 4-2 record, led O's to average of 20 PPG(never less than 17)

Cutler: 21-42, 50%, 354 yds, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 85 rating, 1-1 record, led O to 18 PPG(35 vs. 7-9 seattle, 0 vs. GB)

Romo: 80-135, 59%, 832 yds, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, 81 rating, 1-3 record, led O to 17 PPG(led O to 3 pts in a playoff game once)



Mark Sanchez is NOT a great QB, nowhere will you find me calling him a great QB. He is a GOOD QB right now.

Peyton has had good defenses around him his entire career and the most talent on offense any QB in the history of the game has had over the course of their career.

Mark sanchez was 3-1 w/ Chansi Stuckey as a starting WR in 2009 before they traded for Braylon Edwards- when has Peyton ever played w/ a starting WR the caliber of Chansi Stuckey?

Apparently you missed my point, I never compared Sanchez to Manning. I was pointing out how difficult it is to win on the road and despite having more talented teams Manning is 2-5 vs. 4-2 for Sanchez.

If we had Brady we'd have 2 SBs but there is only one Tom Brady.

Manning has had more talented teams his entire career and has just one SB, this also furthers the point. It's not about stats, those that think that think manning has had a better career than Brady. Same thing on a smaller scale w/ Sanchez against stat guys like Cutler or Romo. The position is about winning.

The only time you would talk down the rest of your team is when you try to talk highly of Sanchez. The Colts and Patriots defense has never been as good as the Jets defense. Peyton has made guys like Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon, and Jacob Tammie relevant, where they would not be relevant anywhere else. Brady has made guys like Deion Branch and Wes Welker relevant, where they would not have been near that caliber anywhere else.

Apart from having one of the best offensive lines in football, the Jets have Santonio Holmes, Braylon Edwards, Jerricho Cotchery, Dustin Keller, Ladainian Tomlinson, and Shonn Greene. Cotchery could be the Dolphins number 2 receiver. Tomlinson was just one year removed from a pro bowl when he went to the Jets. Shonn Greene is a more than suitable running back.

Apart from having suitable offensive weapons, the Jets had a top-5 defense.

Sanchez looks better than he actually is because of his supporting cast. Period.

The fact that you even mention Sanchez in the same sentence as Manning and Brady just shows how big of a bias you have for your Jets. Sanchez is average at best.

CChambers84
05-12-2011, 03:46 PM
I havent read a single word in this thread..but let me guess, most of this thread features junc whining and whining about how much better the jets are?

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 03:47 PM
The only time you would talk down the rest of your team is when you try to talk highly of Sanchez. The Colts and Patriots defense has never been as good as the Jets defense. Peyton has made guys like Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon, and Jacob Tammie relevant, where they would not be relevant anywhere else. Brady has made guys like Deion Branch and Wes Welker relevant, where they would not have been near that caliber anywhere else.

Apart from having one of the best offensive lines in football, the Jets have Santonio Holmes, Braylon Edwards, Jerricho Cotchery, Dustin Keller, Ladainian Tomlinson, and Shonn Greene. Cotchery could be the Dolphins number 2 receiver. Tomlinson was just one year removed from a pro bowl when he went to the Jets. Shonn Greene is a more than suitable running back.

Apart from having suitable offensive weapons, the Jets had a top-5 defense.

Sanchez looks better than he actually is because of his supporting cast. Period.

The fact that you even mention Sanchez in the same sentence as Manning and Brady just shows how big of a bias you have for your Jets. Sanchez is average at best.

I'm not quite sure where you get this notion that we had the '85 Bears defense. Our D is good to very good but NOT great.

Peyton has played his entire career w/ top 2-3 talent on offense, this year they had some ionjuries and he "only" had top 10 talent. Let's not pretend like he is tkaing untalented players and winning. W/ that elite talent he has only been to 2 SBs and only won one.

Brady has taken average offensive talent and won but where have i compared Sanchez to Brady or Peyton anyway?

We have talent no doubt but let's not forget for the 2nd staright year we had our best WR miss the first 4 games.

I think it's funny how you are saying Cotch could be your #2 when all last offseason I heard how Cotch and Edwards were not as good as bess.

Really? LT was one year removed from a PB? You are using that(it was 2 years removed anyway as his last PB was 2007). I was told how LT was done and though he wasn't done he wasn't LT of 5 years ago and he hit a wall at midseason.

I was also told how Miami had the better OL and you had the better RBs, how come after our guys perform now the excuse is we were better everywhere?

Sanchez is still DEVELOPING, this is something that gets lost on this board and while he is developing he has shown the ability to play big in big moments- that's a good sign.

The fact that you are struggling to read baffles me, I NEVER said he was anywhere near Manning and Brady. Manning got brought up as an example of hos difficlut it is to win road playoff games when another poster tried to pretend like beaing tied for the all time lead in road playoff wins is not a big deal.

Ruby2
05-12-2011, 03:57 PM
I'm not quite sure where you get this notion that we had the '85 Bears defense. Our D is good to very good but NOT great.

Peyton has played his entire career w/ top 2-3 talent on offense, this year they had some ionjuries and he "only" had top 10 talent. Let's not pretend like he is tkaing untalented players and winning. W/ that elite talent he has only been to 2 SBs and only won one.

Brady has taken average offensive talent and won but where have i compared Sanchez to Brady or Peyton anyway?

We have talent no doubt but let's not forget for the 2nd staright year we had our best WR miss the first 4 games.

I think it's funny how you are saying Cotch could be your #2 when all last offseason I heard how Cotch and Edwards were not as good as bess.

Really? LT was one year removed from a PB? You are using that(it was 2 years removed anyway as his last PB was 2007). I was told how LT was done and though he wasn't done he wasn't LT of 5 years ago and he hit a wall at midseason.

I was also told how Miami had the better OL and you had the better RBs, how come after our guys perform now the excuse is we were better everywhere?

Sanchez is still DEVELOPING, this is something that gets lost on this board and while he is developing he has shown the ability to play big in big moments- that's a good sign.

The fact that you are struggling to read baffles me, I NEVER said he was anywhere near Manning and Brady. Manning got brought up as an example of hos difficlut it is to win road playoff games when another poster tried to pretend like beaing tied for the all time lead in road playoff wins is not a big deal.

You are arguing with a guy who "writes" for bleacher report.

It's not even worth it.

Nublar7
05-12-2011, 03:58 PM
Well in my opinion,as a jet fan cannot believe that the fins are the same in anyway as the jets.We are in the same division and in a league where every team has talent,we play each other twice every year.Look at the nfc east one year the giants sweep the boys and get sweeped by the eagles.The next year the boys take one.The eagles split.It happens in every division.The difference is rex looks at the big picture and the dolfans look at the jets as there super bowl!
What do Jets fans look at as their Super Bowl? The Divisional round of the playoffs?

Ricky_Fan34
05-12-2011, 04:01 PM
I'm not quite sure where you get this notion that we had the '85 Bears defense. Our D is good to very good but NOT great.

Peyton has played his entire career w/ top 2-3 talent on offense, this year they had some ionjuries and he "only" had top 10 talent. Let's not pretend like he is tkaing untalented players and winning. W/ that elite talent he has only been to 2 SBs and only won one.

Brady has taken average offensive talent and won but where have i compared Sanchez to Brady or Peyton anyway?

We have talent no doubt but let's not forget for the 2nd staright year we had our best WR miss the first 4 games.

I think it's funny how you are saying Cotch could be your #2 when all last offseason I heard how Cotch and Edwards were not as good as bess.

Really? LT was one year removed from a PB? You are using that(it was 2 years removed anyway as his last PB was 2007). I was told how LT was done and though he wasn't done he wasn't LT of 5 years ago and he hit a wall at midseason.

I was also told how Miami had the better OL and you had the better RBs, how come after our guys perform now the excuse is we were better everywhere?

Sanchez is still DEVELOPING, this is something that gets lost on this board and while he is developing he has shown the ability to play big in big moments- that's a good sign.

The fact that you are struggling to read baffles me, I NEVER said he was anywhere near Manning and Brady. Manning got brought up as an example of hos difficlut it is to win road playoff games when another poster tried to pretend like beaing tied for the all time lead in road playoff wins is not a big deal.
That's because Bess is a natural slot reciever and that's where he does the most damage. A guy like Cotchery can and has played #2 WR for the majority of his career.

Vaark
05-12-2011, 04:03 PM
What do Jets fans look at as their Super Bowl? The Divisional round of the playoffs?

Well that kind of makes sense, doesn't it considering their only Superbowl Appearance was the 2nd of a 2game post season :idk:

fin13
05-12-2011, 04:18 PM
I guess that's why he brought them back to w/in 5 in the title game?

Henne lost at HOME in a meaningless reg season game, Henne had the ball in his hands w/ a chance to get into FG range on the last possession and he couldn't get a 1st down.

Clearly the Jets have been losing when the chips have been down which is why they made the title game each of the last 2 years unlike Henne and Miami who have won big game after big game:lol:

Forever a bridesmaid never a bride you sound like your coach you haven't won anything but you keep talking.
If there is a season in 2011 the Jets will not make the playoffs

fin13
05-12-2011, 04:26 PM
Well in my opinion,as a jet fan cannot believe that the fins are the same in anyway as the jets.We are in the same division and in a league where every team has talent,we play each other twice every year.Look at the nfc east one year the giants sweep the boys and get sweeped by the eagles.The next year the boys take one.The eagles split.It happens in every division.The difference is rex looks at the big picture and the dolfans look at the jets as there super bowl!

we look at how easy we took out of the playoffs 2 years ago, you back into the playoffs a year ago , the guy looking at the big picture thought you were out of the playoffs, as a matter of fact because of the game against Cincinnati they change the rules so the last games are now divisional games.

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 04:30 PM
Forever a bridesmaid never a bride you sound like your coach you haven't won anything but you keep talking.
If there is a season in 2011 the Jets will not make the playoffs

I guess it's better to be a bridsemaid than the the one who didn't get invited to the wedding, right? I love this talk from a team that has not won a postseason game in over 10 years.

We won't make the playoffs in 2011 just like we wouldn't make it in '09 or '10.


we look at how easy we took out of the playoffs 2 years ago, you back into the playoffs a year ago , the guy looking at the big picture thought you were out of the playoffs, as a matter of fact because of the game against Cincinnati they change the rules so the last games are now divisional games.

Yep and that will change things like when Indy rested starters against div rival tennessee in 2007:lol:

You can make all the excuses you want- we made the AFC Championship game each of the last 2 years, a place your team hasn't been to since 1992.

PhinzN703
05-12-2011, 04:42 PM
They're willing to settle for mediocrity at the QB position. Hell, to them it's a good thing. We had the greatest pure passer of all time and therefore have higher expectations.

In their sad little world, Dirty Sanchez is considered a great QB.

Even if that was true, the rest of their team is good enough (with said mediocrity at QB) that they can advance to the playoffs deeper than we as Dolfans could've dreamed of since 1990.

tay0365
05-12-2011, 04:56 PM
lol @ the homers who continue to think that Henne is even in the same stratosphere as Sanchez.

You and Junc are in for such an ugly, disappointing let down, I feel for you guys.


Sanchez isn't great (yet) but shows tremendous leadership, the ability to lead a team to victory in the 4th quarter, and has come up big time and time again.

You do realize Henne has more come from behind drives in the 4th quarter in the last 2 years then Sanchez, right?


Throw your stupid passer rating away, Henne has done none of that.

:lol: Unless it was Sanchez that had the higher rating the last 2 years, then it would be more proof you guys would continually bring up.

Right now:

1. Henne has had the higher rating.
2. Sanchez did benifit last year that a great deal of his possible INTs were dropped, while Henne was not so lucky.
3. Henne has taken over games where he had no runing game or defense to help him, Sanchez.....not so much.
4. Sanchez had a better OC the last 2 years.
5. Sanchez had Edwards for 2 years, and two top Receivers last year, Henne had a top Receiver finally last year (But no OC to help him use him)


Henne might not even be a starter after this year. Sanchez, baring injury is locked in at the helm for the next 5 years.

I hope so :lol:, can't ride the running game and defense too much longer, and opponants will eventually start holding on to the gifts Sanchez loves to pass out most games.


You guys need to wake up.

Someone will wake up soon into reality.

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 05:18 PM
You and Junc are in for such an ugly, disappointing let down, I feel for you guys.



You do realize Henne has more come from behind drives in the 4th quarter in the last 2 years then Sanchez, right?



:lol: Unless it was Sanchez that had the higher rating the last 2 years, then it would be more proof you guys would continually bring up.

Right now:

1. Henne has had the higher rating.
2. Sanchez did benifit last year that a great deal of his possible INTs were dropped, while Henne was not so lucky.
3. Henne has taken over games where he had no runing game or defense to help him, Sanchez.....not so much.
4. Sanchez had a better OC the last 2 years.
5. Sanchez had Edwards for 2 years, and two top Receivers last year, Henne had a top Receiver finally last year (But no OC to help him use him)



I hope so :lol:, can't ride the running game and defense too much longer, and opponants will eventually start holding on to the gifts Sanchez loves to pass out most games.



Someone will wake up soon into reality.

I heard that last year and the year before too.

No Henne does not have more 4th qtr comebacks- legit 4th qtr comebacks.

Sanchez has 5 4th qtr comebacks and 7 GW drives, Henne has 3 4th qtr comenacks and 4 GW drives
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=SancMa00
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=HennCh01

Let's look at these comebacks.

Henne led his team all the way back from a 3 pt deficit entering the 4th vs. the Jets in 2009
Henne led his team all the way back from a 1 pt deficit in the 4th qtr vs/ TB in 2009(down 1 b/c of Henne INT by the way)
Henne led his team all the way back from a 2 pt deficit vs. NE in 2009

Wow! what a comeback resume!

Sanchez has nothing on him-

-Down 10 w/ 3 mins left at detroit, win in OT
-Down by 4 vs. Hou w/ :49 secs left at the NYJ 28 and NO timeouts

We can stop there, those are 2 games that needed big time plays to win.


Who cares about passer ratings? One guy makes plays when his team needs him most, the other guy does not.

Stop w/ the dropped INTs, every QB has them. Sanchez has 2 bogus INts go against him and lost multiple TDs b/c of drops- do we count those too?

what games did he take over? Our run game struggled many times this past season and we needed Mark and the passing game to carry us to wins.

jet fans whine as much about our OC as you did about yours. Only one of the 2 was an OC for a SB team though and it wasn't Brian Schottenheimer. Isn't it amazing that w/ a real QB in 2008 you won the division w/ that same crappy OC?

Sanchez got Edwards after 4 games in 2009, he got Holmes after 4 games in '10. Henne had Marshall all season.

JC
05-12-2011, 05:32 PM
You are arguing with a guy who "writes" for bleacher report.

It's not even worth it.

And who do you write for? Hate all you want, doesn't change anything.

Rex
05-12-2011, 05:52 PM
This is hilarious. Your QB is going to be a career back up. Your HC is going to be unemployed in December. You had to draft a G in the 1st round because your OL has more holes than swiss cheese and your only RB is an untested rookie who runs straight up. On top of that, your "Top 10" WR was stabbed by his wife and your solution to the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" offense is to go and sign the OC from the... wait for it... BROWNS!

Yea, you guys are on par with the Jets. All you need is someone to call plays, someone to throw the ball, someone to block and someone to run. Otherwise, you're right there.

Nublar7
05-12-2011, 06:14 PM
This is hilarious. Your QB is going to be a career back up. Your HC is going to be unemployed in December. You had to draft a G in the 1st round because your OL has more holes than swiss cheese and your only RB is an untested rookie who runs straight up. On top of that, your "Top 10" WR was stabbed by his wife and your solution to the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" offense is to go and sign the OC from the... wait for it... BROWNS!

Yea, you guys are on par with the Jets. All you need is someone to call plays, someone to throw the ball, someone to block and someone to run. Otherwise, you're right there.

All those problems yet the Dolphins still own the Jets and will continue to. :)

Vaark
05-12-2011, 06:20 PM
This is hilarious. Your QB is going to be a career back up. Your HC is going to be unemployed in December. You had to draft a G in the 1st round because your OL has more holes than swiss cheese and your only RB is an untested rookie who runs straight up. On top of that, your "Top 10" WR was stabbed by his wife and your solution to the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" offense is to go and sign the OC from the... wait for it... BROWNS!

Yea, you guys are on par with the Jets. All you need is someone to call plays, someone to throw the ball, someone to block and someone to run. Otherwise, you're right there.

speaking of dysfunctional issues (Cromartie and Edwards not withstanding)

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

Finland
05-12-2011, 07:23 PM
I heard that last year and the year before too.

No Henne does not have more 4th qtr comebacks- legit 4th qtr comebacks.

Sanchez has 5 4th qtr comebacks and 7 GW drives, Henne has 3 4th qtr comenacks and 4 GW drives
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=SancMa00
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=HennCh01

Let's look at these comebacks.

Henne led his team all the way back from a 3 pt deficit entering the 4th vs. the Jets in 2009
Henne led his team all the way back from a 1 pt deficit in the 4th qtr vs/ TB in 2009(down 1 b/c of Henne INT by the way)
Henne led his team all the way back from a 2 pt deficit vs. NE in 2009

Wow! what a comeback resume!

Sanchez has nothing on him-

-Down 10 w/ 3 mins left at detroit, win in OT
-Down by 4 vs. Hou w/ :49 secs left at the NYJ 28 and NO timeouts

We can stop there, those are 2 games that needed big time plays to win.


Who cares about passer ratings? One guy makes plays when his team needs him most, the other guy does not.

Stop w/ the dropped INTs, every QB has them. Sanchez has 2 bogus INts go against him and lost multiple TDs b/c of drops- do we count those too?

what games did he take over? Our run game struggled many times this past season and we needed Mark and the passing game to carry us to wins.

jet fans whine as much about our OC as you did about yours. Only one of the 2 was an OC for a SB team though and it wasn't Brian Schottenheimer. Isn't it amazing that w/ a real QB in 2008 you won the division w/ that same crappy OC?

Sanchez got Edwards after 4 games in 2009, he got Holmes after 4 games in '10. Henne had Marshall all season.

While 4th QTR comebacks is a great skill and attribute, it is not that important. Marino was great at it. I would much rather not have to "comeback" and rather have a gainful lead. Who has the most gainful leads? Who was throwing KO's earlier than the 4 QTR?

greenandwhite80
05-12-2011, 08:07 PM
All i am saying is that some people posted that the jets and fins have the same difference and thats totally not true..Rex has used some of nolans schemes,But even phil sims says that rex likes toswitch it up and run the 86 bears package and alot of cover packages against the colts....So to say they are the same is not really true..And this topic is about our coaches and sanchez always gets thrown under the bus.He aint no montana but his last five games of last year he put up great numbers.Is not that what u want from a young QB? He showed progression towards the end of the year.He beat the steelers at home than a crapy buffalo team and then put up huge numbers in the playoffs.Just look at his last five games and then look at henne's.Sanchez always starts slow and we broughtin a coach from indy to help him with his red zone passing.He still gets one more year before the book is out.Ans so does henne now that it looks like he is gonna play next year.And BTW.Why not go after mallet who is 6 foot 7 and a beast?

Ruby2
05-12-2011, 10:20 PM
And who do you write for? Hate all you want, doesn't change anything.

The same could be said for you hating on Sanchez :P

And I'm sorry, but Bleacher Report simply can not be taken seriously.

Ruby2
05-12-2011, 10:24 PM
It is going to be fun bumping this thread after Sanchez leads the Jets into the playoffs for the third year in a row.

I can already hear the excuses now:

Joe McKnight is an up and coming all pro, Ladanian is still really good, your 3rd string right guard is a beast, lol.

BlueFin
05-13-2011, 02:44 AM
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Personally I'd package Henne with Sanchez and throw in a 1st rounder for Josh Freeman by comparison



Thats another subject, and yes so would I. Too bad we didn't draft him.

NY8123
05-13-2011, 07:34 AM
This is hilarious. Your QB is going to be a career back up. Your HC is going to be unemployed in December. You had to draft a G in the 1st round because your OL has more holes than swiss cheese and your only RB is an untested rookie who runs straight up. On top of that, your "Top 10" WR was stabbed by his wife and your solution to the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" offense is to go and sign the OC from the... wait for it... BROWNS!

Yea, you guys are on par with the Jets. All you need is someone to call plays, someone to throw the ball, someone to block and someone to run. Otherwise, you're right there.

Sanchez has done nothing but demonstrate his fondness for wieners and goobers. The Jets had to draft two D-tackles with their first two picks because the D-line is eligible for AARP this season. Your beloved Rexie has about as much cooth and class as a drunken sailor on short leave and Cormartie has enough ******* children to field a baseball team.

Yeah the Jet are the class of the NFL. I roll model for what teams should look like.

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2011/05/imagesqtbnANd9GcRaa_5jRgwDzCJNJmNRDFl_U_-1.jpg

nyjunc
05-13-2011, 08:12 AM
All those problems yet the Dolphins still own the Jets and will continue to. :)

If we never beat Miami again and we keep making the playoffs w/ a chance to reach the SB I'll be very happy.

I love the "own" comments too, you won 3 games against us in the last 2 years by an average of 4 PPG, every single one of the games the last 2 years could have gone either way.


While 4th QTR comebacks is a great skill and attribute, it is not that important. Marino was great at it. I would much rather not have to "comeback" and rather have a gainful lead. Who has the most gainful leads? Who was throwing KO's earlier than the 4 QTR?

Absolutely, I'd much rather win comfortably and not have to sweat games out but not every game goes that way and to have a QB that can play under pressure is a huge advantage for teams.


speaking of dysfunctional issues (Cromartie and Edwards not withstanding)




I am not going to lie, that is disturbing but it doesn't affect him at his job, he has done nothing illegal. The fact that he is into some weird stuff w/ his wife is up to them.

I like how you bring up Cro and Edwards, yes they have issues(along w/ holmes) but we didn't lead the league in arrests, our best player didn't just get stabbed in ANOTHER domestic dispute. All teams have issues w/ players, it's foolish to make fun of another team when your team has as many, if not more, issues.

Nublar7
05-13-2011, 08:34 AM
If we never beat Miami again and we keep making the playoffs w/ a chance to reach the SB I'll be very happy.

I love the "own" comments too, you won 3 games against us in the last 2 years by an average of 4 PPG, every single one of the games the last 2 years could have gone either way.But they didn't. Dolphins have won four of the five past meetings. Doesn't matter if it is by 40 points or 1 point, the Dolphins typically come out on top.

The Jets are more consistent than the Dolphins and get a lot more lucky breaks(like Sanchez leading the league in dropped interceptions with 15) during the course of the season. Head to head though, on the field at the same time, the Dolphins ARE the better team.

nyjunc
05-13-2011, 08:54 AM
But they didn't. Dolphins have won four of the five past meetings. Doesn't matter if it is by 40 points or 1 point, the Dolphins typically come out on top.

The Jets are more consistent than the Dolphins and get a lot more lucky breaks(like Sanchez leading the league in dropped interceptions with 15) during the course of the season. Head to head though, on the field at the same time, the Dolphins ARE the better team.

4 of the last 5 and 4 of the last 6, 4 of the last 7, 4 of the last 8, 4 of the last 9, 4 of the last 10.

Yes we got so many lucky breakes like the awful calls that got us behind in Denver, losing TWO INTs to GB in a 3 pt game that weren't INTs, the fumble in the title game that could have gone either way, Holmes dropping a sure TD that would have led to us beating Miami. Our season was full of lucky breaks and that's why we made the title game AGAIN. I hope we get lucky again this year, if nto we'll sweep the phins and go 7-9 and our season will be a failure.

JC
05-13-2011, 01:41 PM
The same could be said for you hating on Sanchez :P

And I'm sorry, but Bleacher Report simply can not be taken seriously.

I'm sorry, but seeing how much time that has to be put into sports writing without being paid, I'll take what I can get. Even Dan Marino (or Mark Sanchez) started off playing pee wee football. Five years down the road after a double major and a few more years of experience, my plan is to be writing for a much more noteworthy publication.

PhinzN703
05-13-2011, 02:32 PM
Not sure why you guys still antagonize the guy about the Jets. Nothing will ever change

jw0119
05-16-2011, 02:11 PM
What do Jets fans look at as their Super Bowl? The Divisional round of the playoffs?

Whats ours? Beating the Jets?

Seriously, we're so obsessed with them...who cares. I'd lose to them every year, if that guaranteed me a playoff win and a chance to win a title.

Say what you want, they're closer than we are.

SabanHater
05-16-2011, 03:29 PM
Whats ours? Beating the Jets?

Seriously, we're so obsessed with them...who cares. I'd lose to them every year, if that guaranteed me a playoff win and a chance to win a title.

Say what you want, they're closer than we are.

I agree. say what you want, but they are closer. maybe not by much, but they are....
and to compare Sanchez to Henne is so ridiculous.... that's like comparing a bag of $#!t to a bucket of p!$$.
Pointless.

nyjunc
05-16-2011, 03:37 PM
I agree. say what you want, but they are closer. maybe not by much, but they are....
and to compare Sanchez to Henne is so ridiculous.... that's like comparing a bag of $#!t to a bucket of p!$$.
Pointless.

Not by much? We have been on the doorstep of the SB the last 2 years, you guys haven't even been near the doorstep of postseason play.

I dodn't think there is a huge gap, if you make good decisions this offseason you can close the gap but it was fairly wide the last 2 years and a big reason is b/c of the teams QB situations.

SabanHater
05-17-2011, 02:27 PM
are you still counting the year the Colts let you in to the playoffs?

nyjunc
05-17-2011, 02:37 PM
are you still counting the year the Colts let you in to the playoffs?

Yes. I thank the Colts for that, too bad 4 teams couldn't have done that for you then maybe you could have made the playoffs too?

sm0kinfins
05-18-2011, 02:57 AM
I'm sorry, but seeing how much time that has to be put into sports writing without being paid, I'll take what I can get. Even Dan Marino (or Mark Sanchez) started off playing pee wee football. Five years down the road after a double major and a few more years of experience, my plan is to be writing for a much more noteworthy publication.

Don't apologize to that clown. If anyone should be sorry, it's these a-hole jest fans that keep showing up on our site.

That and anyone who's received "thanks" from junc. That's like having the scarlet letter tattooed on your forehead.

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 08:23 AM
Don't apologize to that clown. If anyone should be sorry, it's these a-hole jest fans that keep showing up on our site.

That and anyone who's received "thanks" from junc. That's like having the scarlet letter tattooed on your forehead.

Don't worry smokeinfins, you are welcome at OUR site any time you want to post.

fin13
05-18-2011, 10:07 AM
The Jets haven't won anything, not even the division but keep on talking and assume that things are going to be the same and you are close to SB but truth be told you and the Jets are only close to BS

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 10:11 AM
Obviously we haven't won an AFC Title or a SB but we are really close. Outside of Pitt, Indy, NO and GB every other team wishes they could have done what the Jets did the last 2 years.

NY8123
05-18-2011, 11:31 AM
Obviously we haven't won an AFC Title or a SB but we are really close. Outside of Pitt, Indy, NO and GB every other team wishes they could have done what the Jets did the last 2 years.

With Matt Ryan!

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 11:49 AM
With Matt Ryan!

What does that mean?

NY8123
05-18-2011, 01:37 PM
What does that mean?

Every other team wishes they could have done what the Jets the last two years but with Matt Ryan.

Sanchez held them back.

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 01:47 PM
Every other team wishes they could have done what the Jets the last two years but with Matt Ryan.

Sanchez held them back.

Matt Ryan couldn't win a playoff game at home, Sanchez has won 4 on the road. The Jets are a top team and mark sanchez is one of the many reasons.

NY8123
05-18-2011, 01:59 PM
Matt Ryan couldn't win a playoff game at home, Sanchez has won 4 on the road. The Jets are a top team and mark sanchez is one of the many reasons.

Not really. If it wasn't for the Jets top 5 Defense and top 5 rushing attack the past two seasons ol' dirty sits at home for the playoffs and even if they manage to squeak in without it they lose in the wild card to Cincy in 09 and to Indy in the wild card round in 10.

You give Matt Ryan a top 5 D and a top 5 rushing attack instead of the average ones he plays with and he wins those playoff games.

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 02:29 PM
Not really. If it wasn't for the Jets top 5 Defense and top 5 rushing attack the past two seasons ol' dirty sits at home for the playoffs and even if they manage to squeak in without it they lose in the wild card to Cincy in 09 and to Indy in the wild card round in 10.

You give Matt Ryan a top 5 D and a top 5 rushing attack instead of the average ones he plays with and he wins those playoff games.

Do people think you could just win w/ any QB if you have a good D and running game? There have been much better defenses and much better running games that have struggled to win in january. Going into 4 road Stadiums(inclduing the 2 SB favorites and 2 hottest teams in the NFL in SD and NE) and coming out w/ playoff wins is incredible. Let's put this in some perspective.

Miami has 3 road wins in their history(3-9), the Jets have 4 the last 2 years. It's not easy to win on the road and you aren't doing so w/o a competent QB so either you think the Jets are the most talented team in NFL history outside of the QB or you'll have to acknowledge Sanchez is much better than you give him credit for.

Matt Ryan had the #1 seed in the NFC last year, he had the #5 D(Jets had #6). His rushing attack averaged 4.6 YPC, the Jets averaged 4.4 so he had a better D, better running game AND homefield advantage. What happened?

Ruby2
05-18-2011, 02:31 PM
Do people think you could just win w/ any QB if you have a good D and running game? There have been much better defenses and much better running games that have struggled to win in january. Going into 4 road Stadiums(inclduing the 2 SB favorites and 2 hottest teams in the NFL in SD and NE) and coming out w/ playoff wins is incredible. Let's put this in some perspective.

Miami has 3 road wins in their history(3-9), the Jets have 4 the last 2 years. It's not easy to win on the road and you aren't doing so w/o a competent QB so either you think the Jets are the most talented team in NFL history outside of the QB or you'll have to acknowledge Sanchez is much better than you give him credit for.

Matt Ryan had the #1 seed in the NFC last year, he had the #5 D(Jets had #6). His rushing attack averaged 4.6 YPC, the Jets averaged 4.4 so he had a better D, better running game AND homefield advantage. What happened?

The Jets had the best Run D and Run O of all time last year. Zomg!

NY8123
05-18-2011, 02:44 PM
Do people think you could just win w/ any QB if you have a good D and running game? There have been much better defenses and much better running games that have struggled to win in january. Going into 4 road Stadiums(inclduing the 2 SB favorites and 2 hottest teams in the NFL in SD and NE) and coming out w/ playoff wins is incredible. Let's put this in some perspective.

Miami has 3 road wins in their history(3-9), the Jets have 4 the last 2 years. It's not easy to win on the road and you aren't doing so w/o a competent QB so either you think the Jets are the most talented team in NFL history outside of the QB or you'll have to acknowledge Sanchez is much better than you give him credit for.

Matt Ryan had the #1 seed in the NFC last year, he had the #5 D(Jets had #6). His rushing attack averaged 4.6 YPC, the Jets averaged 4.4 so he had a better D, better running game AND homefield advantage. What happened?

No. Slowly you will realize this. I have already accepted it with Henne.

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 02:53 PM
No. Slowly you will realize this. I have already accepted it with Henne.

Henne and Sanchez are two totally different QBs, we KNOW we have the answer at QB for the next decade(barring injury of course), you guys are still looking.

NY8123
05-18-2011, 02:59 PM
Henne and Sanchez are two totally different QBs, we KNOW we have the answer at QB for the next decade(barring injury of course), you guys are still looking.

You hope.

He has demonstrated nothing to make that statement.

mrodriguez4096
05-18-2011, 03:22 PM
Since stats are what a qb brings to the table when it comes to negotiating a contract and since someone here cannot get off of Dirty's stick about how good a qb he and giving him credit for all the playoff wins. Let's take a look at those individual stats during those playoff games and see how well he did.

'09
01/09 - W24-14 12comp 15att 80.0pct 182yds 12.1avg 1TD 0INT 139.4Rate (Rushing plays 41. Rushing net yards - 171. Defense - 3sacks, 1Int and 2FF)
01/17 - W17-14 12comp 23att 52.2pct 100yds 4.3avg 1TD 1INT 60.1Rate (Rushing plays 39. Rushing net yards - 169. Defense - 2sacks, 2Int and 1FF)

'10
01/08 - W17-16 18comp 31att 58.1pct 189yds 6.1avg 0TD 1INT 62.4Rate (Rushing plays 38. Rushing net yards - 169. Defense - 1sack, 0Int and 0FF)
01/16 - W28-21 16comp 25att 64.0pct 194yds 7.8avg 3TD 0INT 127.3Rate (Rushing plays 29. Rushing net yards - 120. Defense - 5sacks, 1Int and 2FF)

I got these stats off of NFL.com. So if anyone wants to check it to make sure they are correct please have at it. So besides being bored at work I actually wanted to see what the actual numbers had to say regarding how much credit Sanchez gets for these wins. Only a true homer of the Jets would try and give credit to Sanchez for these playoff wins. These stats show it more that it's a true team effort to get the win.

According to these numbers, in the playoffs, he had ONE GAME, where you could say his team counted on him to perform and that was against NE. The Jets have minimized Sanchez handling the ball and depended on defense and running. PERIOD. How can anyone argue that? And please, I know there will be one spin doctor who will try. I don't want to hear it. Your opinion is that, yours. It isn't fact like you try to make it sound. These are the numbers. You cannot argue them.

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 03:31 PM
You hope.

He has demonstrated nothing to make that statement.

Of course he has, he's helped lead teams to the title game in each of his first 2 seasons.


Since stats are what a qb brings to the table when it comes to negotiating a contract and since someone here cannot get off of Dirty's stick about how good a qb he and giving him credit for all the playoff wins. Let's take a look at those individual stats during those playoff games and see how well he did.

'09
01/09 - W24-14 12comp 15att 80.0pct 182yds 12.1avg 1TD 0INT 139.4Rate (Rushing plays 41. Rushing net yards - 171. Defense - 3sacks, 1Int and 2FF)
01/17 - W17-14 12comp 23att 52.2pct 100yds 4.3avg 1TD 1INT 60.1Rate (Rushing plays 39. Rushing net yards - 169. Defense - 2sacks, 2Int and 1FF)

'10
01/08 - W17-16 18comp 31att 58.1pct 189yds 6.1avg 0TD 1INT 62.4Rate (Rushing plays 38. Rushing net yards - 169. Defense - 1sack, 0Int and 0FF)
01/16 - W28-21 16comp 25att 64.0pct 194yds 7.8avg 3TD 0INT 127.3Rate (Rushing plays 29. Rushing net yards - 120. Defense - 5sacks, 1Int and 2FF)

I got these stats off of NFL.com. So if anyone wants to check it to make sure they are correct please have at it. So besides being bored at work I actually wanted to see what the actual numbers had to say regarding how much credit Sanchez gets for these wins. Only a true homer of the Jets would try and give credit to Sanchez for these playoff wins. These stats show it more that it's a true team effort to get the win.

According to these numbers, in the playoffs, he had ONE GAME, where you could say his team counted on him to perform and that was against NE. The Jets have minimized Sanchez handling the ball and depended on defense and running. PERIOD. How can anyone argue that? And please, I know there will be one spin doctor who will try. I don't want to hear it. Your opinion is that, yours. It isn't fact like you try to make it sound. These are the numbers. You cannot argue them.

First off when have I ever said Mark carried us to those playoff wins? Of course they were team wins but he did his part and then some.

Second, stats tell part of the story. His #s at SD look bad while his #s at Indy('09) look really good but he played much better at SD than at Indy. He made huge plays to help us beat SD and int he title game after Greene went down w/ the injury he struggled.

You should really try to watch the games rather than just use a boxscore. The man was near flawless at Cincy, he threw just 3 incompletions and 2 of them were easy drops. At SD he made at least 3 huge plays to help us win, at Pitt he brough us back from 24-0 down and if our D could have made one stop we would have had a chance to win.

His #s in 6 playoff games: 95-157, 61%, 1155 yds, 9 TDs, 3 INTs

Outstanding especially when you consider all 6 games have been on the road and he has been a rookie and 2nd year QB in those 6 games. Only jealous div rivals could make excuses about his performance to make it look like he hasn't perfoemed.

mrodriguez4096
05-18-2011, 03:41 PM
Of course he has, he's helped lead teams to the title game in each of his first 2 seasons.



First off when have I ever said Mark carried us to those playoff wins? Of course they were team wins but he did his part and then some.

Second, stats tell part of the story. His #s at SD look bad while his #s at Indy('09) look really good but he played much better at SD than at Indy. He made huge plays to help us beat SD and int he title game after Greene went down w/ the injury he struggled.

You should really try to watch the games rather than just use a boxscore. The man was near flawless at Cincy, he threw just 3 incompletions and 2 of them were easy drops. At SD he made at least 3 huge plays to help us win, at Pitt he brough us back from 24-0 down and if our D could have made one stop we would have had a chance to win.

His #s in 6 playoff games: 95-157, 61%, 1155 yds, 9 TDs, 3 INTs

Outstanding especially when you consider all 6 games have been on the road and he has been a rookie and 2nd year QB in those 6 games. Only jealous div rivals could make excuses about his performance to make it look like he hasn't perfoemed.

And only homers like you would say "stats only tell part of the story". You are so hell bent on wanting people to believe you that when the stats aren't there for you to put it out there to show people you come up with other things to say.

Yep. I should have sat there and watched the games. Cause I would have come away with the same perception you did of Sanchez, right?

At the end of the day, you are happy with Sanchez and believes he is the answer. CONGRATULATIONS. Stop trying to make people believe what you and other Jet homers think of Sanchez. He is what he has shown and your perception is what you have said here like a broken record. Doesn't make it true no matter how often you repeat the same thing.

Without a running game and a defense Sanchez does not carry a team to a win. That is fact and until he has a game that says otherwise then it'll only be in your head that Sanchez "made plays" to win the game or "without Sanchez we wouldn't have gone x games"

dlockz
05-18-2011, 03:41 PM
I think the jets have confidence in Sanchez and he has done a solid job but he is far from a franchise qb at this time. A 75 qb rating and 17 td and 13 int is far from a stellar year. I personally dont think he is that much better than Henne at this point he just has a better cast around him although I would put him above Henne for sure at this point.

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 03:55 PM
And only homers like you would say "stats only tell part of the story". You are so hell bent on wanting people to believe you that when the stats aren't there for you to put it out there to show people you come up with other things to say.

Yep. I should have sat there and watched the games. Cause I would have come away with the same perception you did of Sanchez, right?

At the end of the day, you are happy with Sanchez and believes he is the answer. CONGRATULATIONS. Stop trying to make people believe what you and other Jet homers think of Sanchez. He is what he has shown and your perception is what you have said here like a broken record. Doesn't make it true no matter how often you repeat the same thing.

Without a running game and a defense Sanchez does not carry a team to a win. That is fact and until he has a game that says otherwise then it'll only be in your head that Sanchez "made plays" to win the game or "without Sanchez we wouldn't have gone x games"

Only people who know the game will tell you stats tell part of the story. SD was ranked 1st in O and D and they have one of the supposed best QBs in the game- how did they go 9-7 and miss the playoffs in that crappy division? Stats tell us they should have been 14-2. get my point?

Every playoff game is televised nationally, you should have watched to form your opinion rather than just use the boxscore. if you did you may have a better understanding of what you are talking about.

Our D was inconsistent as was our running game last year yet we won 11 games. we had no run game at all in the title game and it was sanchez's arm that brought us back. It amazes me how people can spout off about things they just don't have a clue about.


I think the jets have confidence in Sanchez and he has done a solid job but he is far from a franchise qb at this time. A 75 qb rating and 17 td and 13 int is far from a stellar year. I personally dont think he is that much better than Henne at this point he just has a better cast around him although I would put him above Henne for sure at this point.

He's vastly superior to Henne RIGHT NOW. That doesn't mean he'll end up better than him, we'll find out in the coming years but sanxchez took a major step forward and henne a major step backwards last year. he's much better than his #s show, he won 4-5 games late in gameslast year w/ his arm and you don't go 4-2 in the road in postseason w/o having a quality QB. he's not intimidated by any situation- that's a great quality to have. He has a ton of room for improvement, he's far from a finished product but he has tools that you cannot teach and he is one of the reasons we have one of the best teams in the NFL.

fin13
05-18-2011, 04:19 PM
Henne and Sanchez are two totally different QBs, we KNOW we have the answer at QB for the next decade(barring injury of course), you guys are still looking.

What was the question?

Jetsfan0099
05-18-2011, 04:20 PM
You hope.

He has demonstrated nothing to make that statement.

Garbage QBs don't play better in the playoffs against the top competition...


4-2 record in the playoffs in his first 2 seasons in the league, that is the most playoff wins in Jets history for any starting QB.


95/157 60 completion percentage

1,155 yards

9 TDs 3 INTs

94 QB rating 7.36 YPA


Better playoff numbers than any other young QB in the game, out of all the young QBs he has been the only one that has shown he can pick up his play in the biggest games. Joe Flacco has playoff wins but his numbers are horrible.


And for Rex Ryan and Tony Sparano, the Dolphins organization already admitted that Sparano is not their long term answer and he had lost the team last year... They tried to get Jim Harbaugh but failed, it was the most classless thing a organization could do, go out and try to get a HC while you still had a HC under contract.

The Jets moral has never been higher, the team loves Rex Ryan and the organization loves him. He has lifted this entire organization up, they were low before he came.

And the Jets defense was not top 5 in the most important defensive stat, points allowed. The Falcons were top 5 in that. And the rushing attack wasn't explosive or game changing and at times during the season it wasn't there. The Jets are just committed towards running the ball. Matt Ryan has a way better RB than the Jets have in Michael Turner.

dlockz
05-18-2011, 05:15 PM
Only people who know the game will tell you stats tell part of the story. SD was ranked 1st in O and D and they have one of the supposed best QBs in the game- how did they go 9-7 and miss the playoffs in that crappy division? Stats tell us they should have been 14-2. get my point?

Every playoff game is televised nationally, you should have watched to form your opinion rather than just use the boxscore. if you did you may have a better understanding of what you are talking about.

Our D was inconsistent as was our running game last year yet we won 11 games. we had no run game at all in the title game and it was sanchez's arm that brought us back. It amazes me how people can spout off about things they just don't have a clue about.



He's vastly superior to Henne RIGHT NOW. That doesn't mean he'll end up better than him, we'll find out in the coming years but sanxchez took a major step forward and henne a major step backwards last year. he's much better than his #s show, he won 4-5 games late in gameslast year w/ his arm and you don't go 4-2 in the road in postseason w/o having a quality QB. he's not intimidated by any situation- that's a great quality to have. He has a ton of room for improvement, he's far from a finished product but he has tools that you cannot teach and he is one of the reasons we have one of the best teams in the NFL.


You say he vastly superior, superior at this point yes but of course u think Sanchez is a better qb than Matt Cassel at this point. Sanchez is a good young qb that has done well for his time in the league but he does have a much better offense around him than Henne. Ol much better, Te much better rb's better. receivers about even

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 05:20 PM
You say he vastly superior, superior at this point yes but of course u think Sanchez is a better qb than Matt Cassel at this point. Sanchez is a good young qb that has done well for his time in the league but he does have a much better offense around him than Henne. Ol much better, Te much better rb's better. receivers about even

The problem I have w/ those excuses is that I was told how much better Miami was at every position last year but now it's b/c of your WRs, RBs, OL. We had the better OL, we have a better group of WRs but you have the best WR and the RBs were similar.

Sanchez is better than Cassell, would you trust Cassell in a big game?

Vaark
05-18-2011, 05:30 PM
Regardless of where anyone comes out in the pro or anti Orton debates there is a general agreement that at best he'd be a stop gap solution for us. Be that as it may, if we went ahead and traded for him, it's likely he'd immediately end up the second best QB in our division. Just some food for thought. :idk:

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 05:33 PM
Regardless of where anyone comes out in the pro or anti Orton debates there is a general agreement that at best he'd be a stop gap solution for us. Be that as it may, if we went ahead and traded for him, it's likely he'd immediately end up the second best QB in our division. Just some food for thought. :idk:

I agree he'd be a stopgap but he wouldn't be the #2 QB in the division, he'd battle for # 3 w/ Fitz. 2 similar QBs that seem to play well when under no pressure to win.

dlockz
05-18-2011, 07:19 PM
The problem I have w/ those excuses is that I was told how much better Miami was at every position last year but now it's b/c of your WRs, RBs, OL. We had the better OL, we have a better group of WRs but you have the best WR and the RBs were similar.

Sanchez is better than Cassell, would you trust Cassell in a big game?

I dont give excuses I just give my take. Your rbs played better than ours the past two seasons and that is a fact. We are not better than the jets at any position on offense now maybe this season at Wr because we have no clue who u will have.

sm0kinfins
05-19-2011, 12:59 AM
Don't worry smokeinfins, you are welcome at OUR site any time you want to post.

Good greief man learn a new tune already. You've said this very thing to damn near every poster on this site. It's FINheaven sir, not F**heaven, the only site you're welcome on.

Give it a break and get a life.

JC
05-19-2011, 01:39 AM
Why is this conversation still happening? Compared to Henne, Sanchez may look good, but compared to the rest of the NFL, Sanchez is nothing more than an average QB AT BEST

sm0kinfins
05-19-2011, 03:59 AM
Why is this conversation still happening? Compared to Henne, Sanchez may look good, but compared to the rest of the NFL, Sanchez is nothing more than an average QB AT BEST

This pretty well sums it up.

nyjunc
05-19-2011, 10:40 AM
I dont give excuses I just give my take. Your rbs played better than ours the past two seasons and that is a fact. We are not better than the jets at any position on offense now maybe this season at Wr because we have no clue who u will have.

The facts are that our RBs have produced similar results the last 2 years.

Our group of WRs were better last year but you still have the best WR.


Good greief man learn a new tune already. You've said this very thing to damn near every poster on this site. It's FINheaven sir, not F**heaven, the only site you're welcome on.

Give it a break and get a life.

What do you post that is new? You are barely on here and when you do post it is usually just whing about me and you are talking about getting a life? I'll sned you a signed 8x10 if you want.


Why is this conversation still happening? Compared to Henne, Sanchez may look good, but compared to the rest of the NFL, Sanchez is nothing more than an average QB AT BEST

That would be the opinion of most who do not have a clue what they are talking about. The average fan who uses fantasy #s to make judgements on players.

NY8123
05-19-2011, 10:56 AM
Of course he has, he's helped lead teams to the title game in each of his first 2 seasons.



First off when have I ever said Mark carried us to those playoff wins? Of course they were team wins but he did his part and then some.

Second, stats tell part of the story. His #s at SD look bad while his #s at Indy('09) look really good but he played much better at SD than at Indy. He made huge plays to help us beat SD and int he title game after Greene went down w/ the injury he struggled.

You should really try to watch the games rather than just use a boxscore. The man was near flawless at Cincy, he threw just 3 incompletions and 2 of them were easy drops. At SD he made at least 3 huge plays to help us win, at Pitt he brough us back from 24-0 down and if our D could have made one stop we would have had a chance to win.

His #s in 6 playoff games: 95-157, 61%, 1155 yds, 9 TDs, 3 INTs

Outstanding especially when you consider all 6 games have been on the road and he has been a rookie and 2nd year QB in those 6 games. Only jealous div rivals could make excuses about his performance to make it look like he hasn't perfoemed.

Didn't you just say he lead the team to wins and follow it by when did I say he carried the team to wins?

What the hell is the deference beside contradicting yourself in the same post?

nyjunc
05-19-2011, 11:05 AM
Didn't you just say he lead the team to wins and follow it by when did I say he carried the team to wins?

What the hell is the deference beside contradicting yourself in the same post?

"he helped lead" means He carried us? Huh?

Vaark
05-19-2011, 11:07 AM
I dont give excuses I just give my take. Your rbs played better than ours the past two seasons and that is a fact. We are not better than the jets at any position on offense now maybe this season at Wr because we have no clue who u will have.



there you go again with "if it's another team we'll cut em slack, if it involves the Fins club or players, they're ****" shtick. Factually, there ain't a player on the jest offense who comes close to playing their position as well as Jake plays his. And I'd take the Orton and Cutler Marshall vs Edwards or Holmes in a heartbeat also, thus so much for that anti-anything-Fins myopia too. (Then of course there's the FG kickers.. but we'll let you slide on that one. )You really need to calm the **** down dude.

DANTODUPER
05-19-2011, 11:44 AM
Rex Ryan is 1-3 vs. Sparano. His only victory came down to the wire.

Ryan's team seems to perform pretty well in the playoffs, but struggles against the 7-9 Dolphins? What gives?

The question should be.... Why do we almost won (should have won) against the Steelers, and we won against Packers, (the two superbowl teams), and we were beaten by the Lions, the Bills and the Browns?

Answer: Inconsistency, poor coaching, fist pumps and no leadership on the sidelines!!!

NY8123
05-19-2011, 11:57 AM
"he helped lead" means He carried us? Huh?

I am just reading what is in front of me and asking a question. I made no statement all about it.

Luck is a factor in every teams season and always overlooked from the Super Bowl winner down to the last place team. The year Miami won the division they were incredibly health and didn't tun the ball over.

The Jet the past two seasons have been healthier across the board then Miami and they took the ball away on Defense much better then Miami.

nyjunc
05-19-2011, 12:19 PM
I am just reading what is in front of me and asking a question. I made no statement all about it.

Luck is a factor in every teams season and always overlooked from the Super Bowl winner down to the last place team. The year Miami won the division they were incredibly health and didn't tun the ball over.

The Jet the past two seasons have been healthier across the board then Miami and they took the ball away on Defense much better then Miami.

The last 2 years we have lost Kris Jenkins both years, damien Woody, Brad Smith, Jerricho Cotchery, Darrelle Revis, Leon Washington, Shonn Greene, Calvin Pace, Shaun Ellis, Santonio Holmes, Braylond Edwatds(wasn't hurt or suspended but he wasn't w/ us for 4 games), Jim leonhard, Mark Sanchez, ... All these guys missed time due to injuries or suspension. Sure we've had some good breaks but also some bad ones as well. Our guys have overcome alto to be an elite team in this league.

JC
05-19-2011, 01:26 PM
That would be the opinion of most who do not have a clue what they are talking about. The average fan who uses fantasy #s to make judgements on players.

Good Lord you really can't fix stupid. Even comparing Sanchez to any of the top 20 quarterbacks (yes, you guessed it, he is not in the top 20) is absolutely ridiculous.

Based on your "Stupid Model of Great QB Play" Trent Dilfer was a great quarterback.

Also, you are on a Dolphins forum calling us average fans? I'm pretty sure most of us would agree that we are as hardcore as it gets as far as being fans is concerned. That little "average fan" you put in your posts is an attempt to make yourself appear credible, which is obviously not true.

The "average football fan" would agree that Sanchez is not a good QB compared to the rest of the talent currently in the NFL. Put him next to Henne, and he looks like he is well on his way. Put him next to even Kyle Orton, and he doesn't look so special.

It is like the average looking girl that surrounds herself with ugly girls just so she looks better, but in reality, when she is surrounding those who are better than her, she looks like ****.

nyjunc
05-19-2011, 01:38 PM
Good Lord you really can't fix stupid. Even comparing Sanchez to any of the top 20 quarterbacks (yes, you guessed it, he is not in the top 20) is absolutely ridiculous.

Based on your "Stupid Model of Great QB Play" Trent Dilfer was a great quarterback.

Also, you are on a Dolphins forum calling us average fans? I'm pretty sure most of us would agree that we are as hardcore as it gets as far as being fans is concerned. That little "average fan" you put in your posts is an attempt to make yourself appear credible, which is obviously not true.

The "average football fan" would agree that Sanchez is not a good QB compared to the rest of the talent currently in the NFL. Put him next to Henne, and he looks like he is well on his way. Put him next to even Kyle Orton, and he doesn't look so special.

It is like the average looking girl that surrounds herself with ugly girls just so she looks better, but in reality, when she is surrounding those who are better than her, she looks like ****.

Nice reply.

If you don't think he is a top 20 QB you have less credibility than that site you write for.

Dilfer wasn't a great QB but he is a very underarted QB. people that don't truly understand the game think fantasy #s are evrything for a QB. Notice how bal has great defenses year after year after year? Notcie how many times thety've been to the SB w/o Dilfer?


I'm not talking about the dolphin fans as average fans I'm talking fans of all times. I see it on all boards, too many people put too much stock in meaningless fantasy #s.

Sanchez is better than Kyle orton. This is a perfect example, you guys see good fantasy #s and assume a QB is good. orton isn't a bad QB but he put up those #s in mostly garbage time. That doesn't impress me but it impresses the average fan.

Nowhere did I call Sanchez special, he has a long way to go to ever get to that point. The problem w/ many of you guys is you gusy to extremes. If I say Don Shula isn't a top 5 all time coach you guys act like I say he's Rich Kotite even though I called Shul an all time great. If I say Sanchez is a good QB you act like I am saying he's Tom Brady. He's good w/ a long way to go to get to the top. I don't know if he will ever be in the discussion for top 5 in the league but I know he's already good, was much better in year 2 than he was in year 1 and isn't intimidated by big games or big moments which is a good sign.

mrodriguez4096
05-19-2011, 03:14 PM
Nice reply.

If you don't think he is a top 20 QB you have less credibility than that site you write for.

Dilfer wasn't a great QB but he is a very underarted QB. people that don't truly understand the game think fantasy #s are evrything for a QB. Notice how bal has great defenses year after year after year? Notcie how many times thety've been to the SB w/o Dilfer?


I'm not talking about the dolphin fans as average fans I'm talking fans of all times. I see it on all boards, too many people put too much stock in meaningless fantasy #s.

Sanchez is better than Kyle orton. This is a perfect example, you guys see good fantasy #s and assume a QB is good. orton isn't a bad QB but he put up those #s in mostly garbage time. That doesn't impress me but it impresses the average fan.

Nowhere did I call Sanchez special, he has a long way to go to ever get to that point. The problem w/ many of you guys is you gusy to extremes. If I say Don Shula isn't a top 5 all time coach you guys act like I say he's Rich Kotite even though I called Shul an all time great. If I say Sanchez is a good QB you act like I am saying he's Tom Brady. He's good w/ a long way to go to get to the top. I don't know if he will ever be in the discussion for top 5 in the league but I know he's already good, was much better in year 2 than he was in year 1 and isn't intimidated by big games or big moments which is a good sign.

- You seriously need to quit that sh*t and posting things like that when someone doesn't agree with what you have written. You consistently say that people here attack you and all that usual junk. What do you expect when you try and discredit someone that isn't agreeing with what your view is? It is YOUR VIEW and YOUR OPINION. NOTHING MORE.

Unless the numbers support your theory they are "fantasy". However, you will attribute wins to Sanchez because YOU believe he helped in those winnings. Again, that is YOUR OPINION. Stop trying to bring down or discredit someone because they do not agree with what you said.

You love to argue and post things to get a rise out of people. It's extremely annoying to come to just about any thread that has to do with the Dolphins and see your there putting in your "facts" and when someone comes along that doesn't agree with them they "aren't knowledgeable fans" or "only see fantasy #'s".

If you want to argue, argue, this is a message board but stop trying to come on here and tell people they aren't true fans or don't know what they are talking about when they aren't agreeing with your post.

nyjunc
05-19-2011, 03:57 PM
- You seriously need to quit that sh*t and posting things like that when someone doesn't agree with what you have written. You consistently say that people here attack you and all that usual junk. What do you expect when you try and discredit someone that isn't agreeing with what your view is? It is YOUR VIEW and YOUR OPINION. NOTHING MORE.

Unless the numbers support your theory they are "fantasy". However, you will attribute wins to Sanchez because YOU believe he helped in those winnings. Again, that is YOUR OPINION. Stop trying to bring down or discredit someone because they do not agree with what you said.

You love to argue and post things to get a rise out of people. It's extremely annoying to come to just about any thread that has to do with the Dolphins and see your there putting in your "facts" and when someone comes along that doesn't agree with them they "aren't knowledgeable fans" or "only see fantasy #'s".

If you want to argue, argue, this is a message board but stop trying to come on here and tell people they aren't true fans or don't know what they are talking about when they aren't agreeing with your post.

I understand why I get attacked but if you come at me I'll come right back at you. There's nothing personal, I don't hold grudges and those offended by comments shouldn't hold a grudge either.

I KNOW sanchez helped us win.

I don't argue to get a rise out of anyone, I post my honest, fact based opinions. I enjoy trying to "win" arguments, it's fun.

mrodriguez4096
05-19-2011, 04:24 PM
I understand why I get attacked but if you come at me I'll come right back at you. There's nothing personal, I don't hold grudges and those offended by comments shouldn't hold a grudge either.

I KNOW sanchez helped us win.

I don't argue to get a rise out of anyone, I post my honest, fact based opinions. I enjoy trying to "win" arguments, it's fun.

The most sensible thing I have read from you :D. Thank you.

JC
05-19-2011, 06:42 PM
I understand why I get attacked but if you come at me I'll come right back at you. There's nothing personal, I don't hold grudges and those offended by comments shouldn't hold a grudge either.

I KNOW sanchez helped us win.

I don't argue to get a rise out of anyone, I post my honest, fact based opinions. I enjoy trying to "win" arguments, it's fun.

You did fight fire with fire, no harm there. As far as the other Jets fan here that ripped me for ****s and gigs, he can get the hell off of this board.

Sanchez is still a POS though... :up:

sm0kinfins
05-19-2011, 10:42 PM
What do you post that is new? You are barely on here and when you do post it is usually just whing about me and you are talking about getting a life? I'll sned you a signed 8x10 if you want.

Almost 18,000 posts on a site that noone wants to hear from you on. Sorry I can't spend my evenings draining the wi-fi at the local gay bar just to annoy another teams fans like you. :limp:I have a wife and kid that consume most of my free time. You should try it sometime... Females I mean... They're really a lot of fun.

Phinatic8u
05-20-2011, 12:48 AM
Almost 18,000 posts on a site that noone wants to hear from you on. Sorry I can't spend my evenings draining the wi-fi at the local gay bar just to annoy another teams fans like you. :limp:I have a wife and kid that consume most of my free time. You should try it sometime... Females I mean... They're really a lot of fun.

:lol:

nyjunc
05-20-2011, 08:24 AM
Almost 18,000 posts on a site that noone wants to hear from you on. Sorry I can't spend my evenings draining the wi-fi at the local gay bar just to annoy another teams fans like you. :limp:I have a wife and kid that consume most of my free time. You should try it sometime... Females I mean... They're really a lot of fun.

Do you see me here at night or on weekends? I don't have time for that b/c I have a wife and 2 young kids(you think one takes up your life wait until you have 2 and I'm sure those w/ more than 2 can say the same to me).

Something tells me a guy that has to conatsntly post half naked pictures in his sig and avatar struggles to actually meet such ladies in real life.

If I didn't post here the rest of the board would be subjected to more posts from you so consider this community service.