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JCane
05-12-2011, 04:53 AM
What a classy, classy guy. Dude owed the city of Cleveland NOTHING and yet he apologized to the city for "The Decision."

I was never a big fan of "The Decision" and felt like he went about the whole departure the wrong way, but he didn't HAVE to apologize for doing the right thing.

I wonder if Cleveland will apologize to LeBron for wasting seven good years of his career.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/213659/LeBron_Apologizes_To_Cleveland

Tunaphish429
05-12-2011, 08:15 AM
Go heat!!!

SpurzN703
05-12-2011, 10:47 AM
Any coincidence he only does this after the Heat are four games away from the Finals?

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 10:53 AM
:lol2::lol2: He's all class acting like he won the NBA title last night beating a old, broken down Celtics team that he could have beaten w/ Cleveland.

Congrats to the heat, I told you guys at midseason when you were slumping this team would be fine but please don't act like all is rightr w/ his decision to try to hop on wade's back for a championship.

jree
05-12-2011, 11:50 AM
Lord almighty junc, let it go. Dan Gilbert wasn't doing anything to make any situation better or easier for him. He said, this was a once in a lifetime oppurtunity for him. Him nor D-Wade ever denied that they were put together just to beat Boston. Thats exactly why this team was built. They finally got outta the shadow of Boston. They finally stopped beating themselves. Their one step closer to the O'Brien trophy and just got rid of the biggest obstacle that was in their way. People are allowed to have emotions. If all you take from this series is something that you call over-celebration then you already have your reservations with LBJ, Wade, and the Heat and there is absolutley no other reason to talk about this with you.

The biggest road block for both teams was the Celtics. If you really think that last years Cavs team could've beat this Celtics team then I have lost all faith in thinking that you know anything about basketball. Cleveland never played the type of intense D that Miami plays and although the win/loss column in this series doesn't suggest it, watching it tells a different story. The Celtics were the team to beat in the east and just like your Jets and the Pats, if Miami didn't play them to get to the Finals, it wouldn't have been right.

Its not like Lebron or Wade patented a catch phrase after this series

jree
05-12-2011, 11:52 AM
Any coincidence he only does this after the Heat are four games away from the Finals?

absolutley not cause he probably would have done the same thing if they played the Celts in the first round. This was their obstacle that they needed to overcome

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 12:04 PM
Lord almighty junc, let it go. Dan Gilbert wasn't doing anything to make any situation better or easier for him. He said, this was a once in a lifetime oppurtunity for him. Him nor D-Wade ever denied that they were put together just to beat Boston. Thats exactly why this team was built. They finally got outta the shadow of Boston. They finally stopped beating themselves. Their one step closer to the O'Brien trophy and just got rid of the biggest obstacle that was in their way. People are allowed to have emotions. If all you take from this series is something that you call over-celebration then you already have your reservations with LBJ, Wade, and the Heat and there is absolutley no other reason to talk about this with you.

The biggest road block for both teams was the Celtics. If you really think that last years Cavs team could've beat this Celtics team then I have lost all faith in thinking that you know anything about basketball. Cleveland never played the type of intense D that Miami plays and although the win/loss column in this series doesn't suggest it, watching it tells a different story. The Celtics were the team to beat in the east and just like your Jets and the Pats, if Miami didn't play them to get to the Finals, it wouldn't have been right.

Its not like Lebron or Wade patented a catch phrase after this series

He could ahve beaten this Boston w/ any of his Cle teams the past 3-4 years and he would have looked like a hero, instead he chose the easy way out. Again, congrats to all you Heat fans, this has nothing to do w/ you but to act liek lebron is all class now is beyond hysterical. He's getting what he wanted which was an easy way to a title.

They beat a broken down Celtics team, this was not some huge accomplishment. Sure it was nice to beat Boston(I was rooting for them b/c I hate Boston more) but this was not Boston from last year or a few years ago. They may not have gotten by a mediocre Knicks team if Billups and Stoudemire were healthy.

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 12:09 PM
Watching the highlights it was embarrassing the way they acted. You brought up the Jets but they beat a team that was the best team in the NFL in the reg season w/ a QB who had 4 SB apps and 3 SB titles. The broken down Celtics have won just ONE NBA title(3 years ago) in 24 years and they were th 3rd best team in the EAST! What a pathetic celebration for a man who couldn't beat them w/ his team.

jree
05-12-2011, 12:28 PM
Whats your point about them being ranked the 3rd best team? The Celts are built for the playoffs, not the regular season. Regular season records are jokes. Chicago is going almost the distance with Atlanta and was in a dog fight with the Pacers and they have the best record in the NBA. If Chicago faces Boston in the second round, the Bulls woulda probably got bounced. The team with the second best record in the NBA was bounced by a team that never won a series. Two time reigning NBA champs get swept. Regular season means nothing but seeding.

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 12:57 PM
Whats your point about them being ranked the 3rd best team? The Celts are built for the playoffs, not the regular season. Regular season records are jokes. Chicago is going almost the distance with Atlanta and was in a dog fight with the Pacers and they have the best record in the NBA. If Chicago faces Boston in the second round, the Bulls woulda probably got bounced. The team with the second best record in the NBA was bounced by a team that never won a series. Two time reigning NBA champs get swept. Regular season means nothing but seeding.

This is not the Boston team from last year or a few years ago is the point. It's nice to beat them but this is not some multi championship team that needed to be slayed. This is the Lakers of the 00s, the Spurs of the 00s, the Bulls of the 90s,... Like I said all last offseason there aren't any great teams, Mimai is building towards one and as these guys play together longer and add some better complimentary pieces they have a great shot to be a truly great team butThe Celtics, Lakers of recent years won championships but weren't truly great teams.

tylerdolphin
05-12-2011, 01:04 PM
but please don't act like all is rightr w/ his decision to try to hop on wade's back for a championship.

lolwut?

Did you even watch the last two games? Lebron was clearly the best player on the court. He took over the 4th quarter in both games. I love how when Kobe loses, its because he doesnt have any help (and that was true. His team played like ****). When Lebron teams up with good players to try win though, he is piggy-backing his way to a title.

SpurzN703
05-12-2011, 01:05 PM
absolutley not cause he probably would have done the same thing if they played the Celts in the first round. This was their obstacle that they needed to overcome

So the Bulls are going to be a pushover?

Ferretsquig
05-12-2011, 01:50 PM
The Bulls will certainly be no pushover but this was the team the individuals on this team and the team as a whole had to overcome. The whole reason they got together is because the Celtics proved that no one man show was going to ever beat a dominant defensive team in their repeated beatdowns of Lebron's Cavs and Wade's Heat. The same thing the Bulls are going to find out unless Boozer suddenly becomes a dominant force.

jree
05-12-2011, 02:07 PM
So the Bulls are going to be a pushover?

absolutley not but the Bulls weren't the team that repeatedly eliminated the Heat or Cavs. Paul Pierce doesn't play for the Bulls and last time I checked, nobody on the Bulls team poked at James as much as Pierce has.

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 02:07 PM
So the Bulls are going to be a pushover?

Too many dookies on the Bulls, it's a proven fact that if you have a duke player on your roster your odds of winning an NBA Title decrease by 2,000%:D

jree
05-12-2011, 02:08 PM
lolwut?

Did you even watch the last two games? Lebron was clearly the best player on the court. He took over the 4th quarter in both games. I love how when Kobe loses, its because he doesnt have any help (and that was true. His team played like ****). When Lebron teams up with good players to try win though, he is piggy-backing his way to a title.

Aren't you anti-Heat also?

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 02:08 PM
absolutley not but the Bulls weren't the team that repeatedly eliminated the Heat or Cavs. Paul Pierce doesn't play for the Bulls and last time I checked, nobody on the Bulls team poked at James as much as Pierce has.

The Celtics teams that beat the heat and Cavs while not great were still MUCH better than this current edition. You guys are acting like this is 2008 or 1986.

jree
05-12-2011, 02:17 PM
This is not the Boston team from last year or a few years ago is the point. It's nice to beat them but this is not some multi championship team that needed to be slayed. This is the Lakers of the 00s, the Spurs of the 00s, the Bulls of the 90s,... Like I said all last offseason there aren't any great teams, Mimai is building towards one and as these guys play together longer and add some better complimentary pieces they have a great shot to be a truly great team butThe Celtics, Lakers of recent years won championships but weren't truly great teams.

You are so perplexing. Of course this isn't the same team. Everybody knew that but this was still the team to beat and before this season started, everybody was already pinning Boston up against Chicago. Just cause of their seeding doesn't make them the 3rd best team in the east. If you still can't understand the emotions that were displayed by Miami last night then I guess you've never ever in your life have been through any adversity or challenged.

My favorite thing about the Celts, Lakers, Spurs, or whatever is how if they beat a young run and gun team then their experienced. But if they lose, their old.

jree
05-12-2011, 02:24 PM
The Celtics teams that beat the heat and Cavs while not great were still MUCH better than this current edition. You guys are acting like this is 2008 or 1986.


And your acting like you they just faced the Nets.

And I refer to this over and over again


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH5YA5qJnpo

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 02:39 PM
You are so perplexing. Of course this isn't the same team. Everybody knew that but this was still the team to beat and before this season started, everybody was already pinning Boston up against Chicago. Just cause of their seeding doesn't make them the 3rd best team in the east. If you still can't understand the emotions that were displayed by Miami last night then I guess you've never ever in your life have been through any adversity or challenged.

My favorite thing about the Celts, Lakers, Spurs, or whatever is how if they beat a young run and gun team then their experienced. But if they lose, their old.

Alot can change during a season. Boston aged rapidly and had a terrible deadline trade(terrible in the short term). I expected Miami to winn this series, I expected it to go 6 or 7 not 5 but I did expect Miami to win.

I don't get the emotions of beating a 3 seed that has won ONE title in 24 years. Dallas beating a team that has 5 titles in the last decade showed less emotion.

I don't know about the old excuse for the Lakers, I think they had more problems besides age but for SA and Boston they were w/o a doubt old teams.

As a basketball fan it's fun to watch Miami, I think this team over the next couple of year will evolve into a truly great team I just hate the way they were put together. I hated seeing a superstar leave his team to try to guarantee a title w/ other players. If lebron stuck it out and was as great as we believe he is then he was going to win it in Cleveland at some point.


And your acting like you they just faced the Nets.

And I refer to this over and over again


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH5YA5qJnpo

Seriously? You point to that game? winning a series at the buzzer is cause for celebration. Beating an old beat up team in 5 games comfortably(In knw it was close until a few mins but the game wasn't in doubt in the final minute) is not cause for the celebration they had.

That celebration by the Bulls WINNING a series on a last second shot waqs tamer than Miami's last night.

jree
05-12-2011, 02:46 PM
So your basing what the fans at the tripple A did than what LBJ and Wade did? What did LBJ and Wade do that was more outrageous than Jordans celebration? You really think that this was an easy victory for them? Seriously? They didn't take the lead until 2 minutes left in the game and were down almost the entire game. If they didn't win game 5 than this thing is going to 7. It took a Herculean effort from Wade in the first half and James in the second half to finish them off and you don't think they should have celebrated?

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 02:54 PM
So your basing what the fans at the tripple A did than what LBJ and Wade did? What did LBJ and Wade do that was more outrageous than Jordans celebration? You really think that this was an easy victory for them? Seriously? They didn't take the lead until 2 minutes left in the game and were down almost the entire game. If they didn't win game 5 than this thing is going to 7. It took a Herculean effort from Wade in the first half and James in the second half to finish them off and you don't think they should have celebrated?

The Bulls won a series on a last second shot and the celebration wasn't as great as what Miami did last night.

Miami should celebrate, any time you win a series you should celebrate to some degree but they acted like they won the NBA Title the way they celebrated winning a series in 5 games over the 3 seed who has 1 title in 24 years.

jree
05-12-2011, 03:22 PM
The Bulls won a series on a last second shot and the celebration wasn't as great as what Miami did last night.

Miami should celebrate, any time you win a series you should celebrate to some degree but they acted like they won the NBA Title the way they celebrated winning a series in 5 games over the 3 seed who has 1 title in 24 years.

You keep on saying 1 title in 3 years and you keep calling them the 3 seed. What was Cleveland when Jordan played that Cavs team? How many championships did they have?

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 03:30 PM
You keep on saying 1 title in 3 years and you keep calling them the 3 seed. What was Cleveland when Jordan played that Cavs team? How many championships did they have?

They won on a LAST SECOND SHOT TO WIN A SERIES! Do you not see the difference?

and that last second SERIES win wasn't celebrated as big as Lebron's game winner against orlando in game 2 two years ago.

jree
05-12-2011, 03:48 PM
They won on a LAST SECOND SHOT TO WIN A SERIES! Do you not see the difference?

and that last second SERIES win wasn't celebrated as big as Lebron's game winner against orlando in game 2 two years ago.

Of course I see a difference but Jordan faced a Cavs team that has never won a thing ever but they still took the best player to ever play the game to a full best of 5 series. But yet you rationalize how Lebron scored the final 10 points of this game, throttled the reigning EC champs the final 2 minutes and completely shut them down in the final 4 minutes of the game. And to top it off, Jordan has never been criticized, scrutinized, judged, or villafied in one single season the way Lebron did this season. Seriously, if you don't realize that hiim beating the Celtics was the equivalent of sutting up some of his critics then I dont know what else there is to talk about. I will guarantee that if the Heat beat the Bulls or Hawks, they won't celebrate as hard

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 04:16 PM
Of course I see a difference but Jordan faced a Cavs team that has never won a thing ever but they still took the best player to ever play the game to a full best of 5 series. But yet you rationalize how Lebron scored the final 10 points of this game, throttled the reigning EC champs the final 2 minutes and completely shut them down in the final 4 minutes of the game. And to top it off, Jordan has never been criticized, scrutinized, judged, or villafied in one single season the way Lebron did this season. Seriously, if you don't realize that hiim beating the Celtics was the equivalent of sutting up some of his critics then I dont know what else there is to talk about. I will guarantee that if the Heat beat the Bulls or Hawks, they won't celebrate as hard

They won a SERIES on a last second, amazing shot- is there anything more exciting other than clinching the conf or winning it all?

If Lebron wins 5 titles it won't shut up the critics b/c he will still have slithered away from Cle in hopes of hopping on to a title contender rather than sticking it out. Jordan never got that scrutiny(though he was scrutinized as he was compared to 2 NBA legends in magic and Bird) b/c he never quit and went to another loaded team in hopes of being handed a title. he earned it on the court getting better every year and making his team better.

If Miami beats Chi/Atl they should celebrate much more than last night. They beat an old, beat up Boston team in 5 games. That celebration was over the top acting like they won a title.

SpurzN703
05-12-2011, 04:51 PM
absolutley not but the Bulls weren't the team that repeatedly eliminated the Heat or Cavs. Paul Pierce doesn't play for the Bulls and last time I checked, nobody on the Bulls team poked at James as much as Pierce has.

I'd take Derrick Rose over anyone the Celtics have. Chicago-Miami would be a good series

jree
05-12-2011, 04:55 PM
But Jordan didn't have to do it alone either. Chicago was ran alot better than Cleveland is now and the draft back in those days meant alot more than it does these days. Lebron knew that there was absolutley no help coming any time soon. And Miami wasn't a title contendor before he got there even with Bosh coming on board. Cleveland is a joke of franchise which is why that team has never won anything.

tylerdolphin
05-12-2011, 05:18 PM
Aren't you anti-Heat also?

Something like that. I root against them just because my brother and J are die-hards and I like poking at them. This is especially true for my brother who really gets worked up about sports :lol:. I thought Lebron was wrong for HOW he left Cleveland, but actually leaving made a lot of sense to me.

nyjunc
05-12-2011, 05:23 PM
But Jordan didn't have to do it alone either. Chicago was ran alot better than Cleveland is now and the draft back in those days meant alot more than it does these days. Lebron knew that there was absolutley no help coming any time soon. And Miami wasn't a title contendor before he got there even with Bosh coming on board. Cleveland is a joke of franchise which is why that team has never won anything.

Miami was an instant title contender the day all 3 signed w/ the Heat(Wade re-signed).

Look at those Bulls rosters, especially the first 3-peat teams. Those teams weren't littered w/ top tier talent. They had talent but nothing close to the Lakers, Celtics or Sixers of the 80s. He led his teams to championships, Lebron couldn't do that in Cleveland so he pulled an Alonzo.

jree
05-12-2011, 07:24 PM
Something like that. I root against them just because my brother and J are die-hards and I like poking at them. This is especially true for my brother who really gets worked up about sports :lol:. I thought Lebron was wrong for HOW he left Cleveland, but actually leaving made a lot of sense to me.

Got 'cha. And yes, I agree with you about how he left, not why he left

Vaark
05-12-2011, 07:39 PM
It's just outright laughably disingenuous how some haters want to discredit the Heats handily vanquishing of a team that would probably have beaten Atlanta in 5 - yet cling to the delusion that beating The Bengals, an absolutely dead team walking and a Colts team fielding an inept Curtis Painter and his fellow scrubs - was in reality anything other than a disgraceful act of charity and an embarrasment to the League.. Go know :idk:

jree
05-12-2011, 07:55 PM
Miami was an instant title contender the day all 3 signed w/ the Heat(Wade re-signed).

Look at those Bulls rosters, especially the first 3-peat teams. Those teams weren't littered w/ top tier talent. They had talent but nothing close to the Lakers, Celtics or Sixers of the 80s. He led his teams to championships, Lebron couldn't do that in Cleveland so he pulled an Alonzo.

This isn't a debate about who was better cause we all know Jordan is. Its the fact that he didn't do anything by himself even though he was the greatest. But I keep forgetting that you don't think that Pippen was a top 50 talent. All those teams that were Jordans roadblocks to get his 3peats were also filled with players who weren't the same as they were the prior year. Name one player on the Cavs that played with Lebron in any year that would even be considered a top 50 talent in todays game let alone all time. On second thought, don't bother cause your reasoning of him not being able to do it alone is ridiculous cause no one person can beat a whole team.

JCane
05-13-2011, 05:56 AM
As a basketball fan it's fun to watch Miami, I think this team over the next couple of year will evolve into a truly great team I just hate the way they were put together.

Yeah, they were put together like every other team that puts pieces together.

Free agency and such.

Just a bunch of AWFUL human beings doing what they want with their careers.

:lol:

nyjunc
05-13-2011, 08:19 AM
It's just outright laughably disingenuous how some haters want to discredit the Heats handily vanquishing of a team that would probably have beaten Atlanta in 5 - yet cling to the delusion that beating The Bengals, an absolutely dead team walking and a Colts team fielding an inept Curtis Painter and his fellow scrubs - was in reality anything other than a disgraceful act of charity and an embarrasment to the League.. Go know :idk:

It's worse when a jealous football fan will make fun of a team for beating Indy w/ a qtr and a half of backups then whipping Cincy's starters beofre they pulled them while the year before their team had an easier road to postseason only to get humiliated at home in the WC rd.


This isn't a debate about who was better cause we all know Jordan is. Its the fact that he didn't do anything by himself even though he was the greatest. But I keep forgetting that you don't think that Pippen was a top 50 talent. All those teams that were Jordans roadblocks to get his 3peats were also filled with players who weren't the same as they were the prior year. Name one player on the Cavs that played with Lebron in any year that would even be considered a top 50 talent in todays game let alone all time. On second thought, don't bother cause your reasoning of him not being able to do it alone is ridiculous cause no one person can beat a whole team.

Jordan carried those teams to titles. Pippen was very good, I think he was overrated b/c of playing next to Michael.

Talent level is not the same today, Lebron didn't have to beat Magic's lakers, those good Bulls teams, the Jazz w/ Malone and Stockton. All those teams would be winning championships in today's NBA. Lebron had a chance to win, he chose the easy way out to a championship. We know he's going to win multiple titles over the next few years, he could have earned them in Cleveland.

This is a Lebron issue not a Heat issue. Pat Riley did a great job (BS he didn't solely win exec of the year), you guys should be excited but I hated seeing an all time great player take the easy way out.


Yeah, they were put together like every other team that puts pieces together.

Free agency and such.

Just a bunch of AWFUL human beings doing what they want with their careers.

:lol:

Adding possibly the best player in the sport to a top 3-4 player is not how other teams have built. The best guys usually stay and teams build around them. You guys can rationalize it all you want, he chose to be handed a title rather than build and work for it. There's not a doubt in my mind that if he stayed in Cleveland they would have beat this broken down Boston team and he would have been a hero for doing so. His emotions could have been real, a real accomplishment rather than the phony emotions the other night acting like they won an NBA title- acting like they beat the 60s or 80s Celtics.

JCane
05-13-2011, 08:23 AM
Cool. He beats a busted Boston team and loses to Chicago.

Still gets bashed for winning nothing.

Still playing with a garbage team that NO ONE WAS BUILDING AROUND.

THAT'S THE ****ING PROBLEM.

You want to win, you want to matter, you want to make your time and devotion to the game of basketball matter to YOU, then you get the **** out of Cleveland where you'd never win a Goddamn thing.

LeBron isn't being handed ANYTHING.

nyjunc
05-13-2011, 08:30 AM
Cool. He beats a busted Boston team and loses to Chicago.

Still gets bashed for winning nothing.

Still playing with a garbage team that NO ONE WAS BUILDING AROUND.

THAT'S THE ****ING PROBLEM.

You want to win, you want to matter, you want to make your time and devotion to the game of basketball matter to YOU, then you get the **** out of Cleveland where you'd never win a Goddamn thing.

LeBron isn't being handed ANYTHING.

If they don't beat Chicago he will get roasted but reagrdless what happens this year they are winning titles in the coming years. I think we all know that. He took the easy way out and will get his rings.

JCane
05-13-2011, 08:37 AM
I'm saying had he stayed in Cleveland, MAYBE they beat Boston but they get slammed by Chicago. Had LeBron gone and played with Derrick Rose you'd have no problem. Had LeBron gone and played with Amar'e in New York you wouldn't have a problem. But for some reason, because it's Wade and Miami, somehow he doesn't get credit for whatever he wins.

You keep blabbering about staying and building and other nonsense. You do realize that LeBron isn't capable of building, correct? He wasn't the owner or the GM. Those dudes built trash around him.

You stay with a company for seven years and you get garbage benefits and no raise...I don't know about you but I'm gonna go look for another company to work for. A company where I can get some perks, a raise I deserve, and a chance to matter.


"But...but...loyalty and building....and...and....I want my sports to be ideal because everything else in life isn't."

Get ****ing real.

:lol: :lol:

nyjunc
05-13-2011, 08:48 AM
I'm saying had he stayed in Cleveland, MAYBE they beat Boston but they get slammed by Chicago. Had LeBron gone and played with Derrick Rose you'd have no problem. Had LeBron gone and played with Amar'e in New York you wouldn't have a problem. But for some reason, because it's Wade and Miami, somehow he doesn't get credit for whatever he wins.

You keep blabbering about staying and building and other nonsense. You do realize that LeBron isn't capable of building, correct? He wasn't the owner or the GM. Those dudes built trash around him.

You stay with a company for seven years and you get garbage benefits and no raise...I don't know about you but I'm gonna go look for another company to work for. A company where I can get some perks, a raise I deserve, and a chance to matter.


"But...but...loyalty and building....and...and....I want my sports to be ideal because everything else in life isn't."

Get ****ing real.

:lol: :lol:

Who knows what moves they make? Maybe they could have beaten Chicago? It's not all about THIS YEAR, he's still a player years away from his 30s.

Had he gone to NY and played w/ Amar'e I would be saying the same thing, just like if he went to Chi and played w/ Rose. It's not about Miami, it's about pairing up w/ another superstar and another AS player.

He wasn't the owner or GM but he ran that franchise, maybe if they didn't do everything to cater to him he would have had more talent around him?

yes, making hundreds of millios is comparable to getting garbage benefits in a regular job:lol: Every day he stepped on the court in Cleveland he had a chance to win b/c he was the best player on the Court. He managed to win 60+ games every year but couldn't deliver when it mattered most b/c he couldn't take the presure of being the go to guy.

It's even about loyalty, as a basketball fan it's disappoitning a player as great as him would slink away to want to be handed a championship. Great players should feel they can win w/ anybody. That is the attitude I want to see from an all time great. It's one thing if he's 35 and nearing the end and it hasn't worked out but in his mid 20s giving up already? It's disappointing as a fan of the game. You'd be disappointed too if he went anywhere but Miami.

SpurzN703
05-13-2011, 10:18 AM
Cool. He beats a busted Boston team and loses to Chicago.

Still gets bashed for winning nothing.

Still playing with a garbage team that NO ONE WAS BUILDING AROUND.

THAT'S THE ****ING PROBLEM.

You want to win, you want to matter, you want to make your time and devotion to the game of basketball matter to YOU, then you get the **** out of Cleveland where you'd never win a Goddamn thing.

LeBron isn't being handed ANYTHING.

Does Miami win their lone title without Shaq being on the team?

SpurzN703
05-13-2011, 10:20 AM
You stay with a company for seven years and you get garbage benefits and no raise...I don't know about you but I'm gonna go look for another company to work for. A company where I can get some perks, a raise I deserve, and a chance to matter.

You forgot to mention the fantastic endorsements he got b/c of that job. Hell they might even pay more than his contract :)

jree
05-13-2011, 10:25 AM
You forgot to mention the fantastic endorsements he got b/c of that job. Hell they might even pay more than his contract :)

Lebrons Nike contract went from $90 mil with the Cavs being a small market to around $125 mil for being in Miami's big market

nyjunc
05-13-2011, 10:39 AM
Lebrons Nike contract went from $90 mil with the Cavs being a small market to around $125 mil for being in Miami's big market

If he did it for that reason he would have went to the #1 market.

jree
05-13-2011, 10:39 AM
Does Miami win their lone title without Shaq being on the team?

As much as I hate to say it, no they don't. I will say that Alonzo had more to do with the title in the finals than Shaq did. I hated every second that Shaq was down here.

And junc, who are you to say that Lebron or Wades emotions weren't real? These two teams genuinley hate each other and I don't think you watched any interviews that James or Wade said about them. They respect the hell outta that team and old and busted or not, if you sleep on them they will crush you. After game 1 of the season the Heat were crucified and all the haters(and some heat fans) came outta the woodworks spouting off at the mouth with their predictions and declared the season over the Heat.

Say what you want about their predicitons before the season started or the fact that they held that party to celebrate them coming together but that wasn't meant for anybody else but us Heat fans.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1paU0yjjFyc

jree
05-13-2011, 10:41 AM
If he did it for that reason he would have went to the #1 market.

Thats not why he did it but I believe thats what happened as soon as he went to a big market

nyjunc
05-13-2011, 10:50 AM
As much as I hate to say it, no they don't. I will say that Alonzo had more to do with the title in the finals than Shaq did. I hated every second that Shaq was down here.

And junc, who are you to say that Lebron or Wades emotions weren't real? These two teams genuinley hate each other and I don't think you watched any interviews that James or Wade said about them. They respect the hell outta that team and old and busted or not, if you sleep on them they will crush you. After game 1 of the season the Heat were crucified and all the haters(and some heat fans) came outta the woodworks spouting off at the mouth with their predictions and declared the season over the Heat.

Say what you want about their predicitons before the season started or the fact that they held that party to celebrate them coming together but that wasn't meant for anybody else but us Heat fans.



Alonzo was along for the ride, they aren't close to the Finals w/o Shaq. They won the Finals b/c wade was trated better than Michael ever was and lived at the FT line but they aren't there w/o Shaq.

Anyone who watches the sport knows Miami was a work in progress, they couldn't be expected to be at their peak game 1 or even a few months in. heck, they won'tpeak for another couple of years. I told you guys a few months back when everyone was jumping off a bridge b/c they lost a few games that they would be fine.

Now you are going to compare the Jets reactions? Football is played once a week. it is a more emotional game. The Jets and Pats have been rivals for a LONG time, the Pats are considered the premiere franchise in the sport, the Pats were 14-2, the Pats had just whooped the Jets a month earlier. The Pats were far and away the favorites to win it all, very different than beating a team that just became a rival, that is old and broken down, that was a 3 seed, that has 1 title in 25 seasons.

jree
05-13-2011, 11:06 AM
Unlike football all it takes is two guys to not like eachother for a rivalry to be born. In the Boston/Miami series, 4 guys hated eachother, Wade/James and Garnett/Pierce. Not to mention all the **** that was talked during the AllStar game about how the Celtics knew all of Miamis set play and how Rivers left Bosh in to play with the other Celts just to show they know Miami's playbook.

And most of us reasonable Heat fans knew that the season wasn't over after game one or even 20 games into the season. Regular season is a joke.
Oh, and the Jets played the Pats without Randy Moss if you really wanna rationalize the Heat beating the Celtics

Ricky_Fan34
05-13-2011, 11:08 AM
Unlike football all it takes is two guys to not like eachother for a rivalry to be born. In the Boston/Miami series, 4 guys hated eachother, Wade/James and Garnett/Pierce. Not to mention all the **** that was talked during the AllStar game about how the Celtics knew all of Miamis set play and how Rivers left Bosh in to play with the other Celts just to show they know Miami's playbook.

And most of us reasonable Heat fans knew that the season wasn't over after game one or even 20 games into the season. Regular season is a joke.
Oh, and the Jets played the Pats without Randy Moss if you really wanna rationalize the Heat beating the Celtics
Particularly in the East. You have to be terrible to miss the playoffs in the East. If Phoenix was in the East, we would've made it in as the 8 and been 1 game back on the 7 seed. Pretty pathetic. In the West though they finished 10th I believe.

BARF
05-13-2011, 11:11 AM
who cares

nyjunc
05-13-2011, 11:15 AM
Unlike football all it takes is two guys to not like eachother for a rivalry to be born. In the Boston/Miami series, 4 guys hated eachother, Wade/James and Garnett/Pierce. Not to mention all the **** that was talked during the AllStar game about how the Celtics knew all of Miamis set play and how Rivers left Bosh in to play with the other Celts just to show they know Miami's playbook.

And most of us reasonable Heat fans knew that the season wasn't over after game one or even 20 games into the season. Regular season is a joke.
Oh, and the Jets played the Pats without Randy Moss if you really wanna rationalize the Heat beating the Celtics

Celts/Heat isn't close to the rivalry of the Jets/Pats.

NE became a MUCH better team w/o Randy Moss. Randy quit, did you notice he played on 3 teams and didn't help one of them? That's a pretty poor excuse.

nyjunc
05-13-2011, 12:54 PM
Now the Heat react to beating the Boston Celtics in the second round as if they had exorcised some terrible demons. As only James could sum it up: "Finally getting past this team, everything I went through this summer. All the backlash ... very emotional."

Finally? Did I miss some kind of storied rivalry?

Again, the Heat celebrate nothing. Or rather, they celebrate the relief of not losing to guys they should beat. That’s all that happened: The Three Kings and their supporting cast beat an old team with no center and a one-armed point guard.



http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/lebron-james-chris-bosh-dwyane-wade-have-no-excuses-for-not-winning-nba-title-051211

tylerdolphin
05-13-2011, 01:05 PM
Yea the Celtics were slouches. Whats the rationalization gonna be if they beat the Bulls?

jree
05-13-2011, 03:04 PM
Celts/Heat isn't close to the rivalry of the Jets/Pats.

NE became a MUCH better team w/o Randy Moss. Randy quit, did you notice he played on 3 teams and didn't help one of them? That's a pretty poor excuse.

This isn't just a rivalry of the Heat and Celts. This was about 60% of our team actually hating 60% of their team. Earlier in the season Pierce took his talents to South Beach and then went to Memphis. This time after he came here he went fishing. They don't like each other, it has nothing to do with history. How can you not understand that?

nyjunc
05-13-2011, 03:09 PM
That's great but it's not Jets/Pats and Miami didn't slay the dragon, they beat an old, beaten down team. Great win as they are one step closer to a title but this was not some monumental win. This wasn't the Bulls beating detroit in the early 90s, this wasn't det beating Boston in the late 80s.

jree
05-13-2011, 03:19 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/lebron-james-chris-bosh-dwyane-wade-have-no-excuses-for-not-winning-nba-title-051211

What the hell is your point




But it was just the second round! Why would you celebrate like that for getting out of the second round against an old, injured team?! This is the grasping lament of a laughing-but-now-more-scared America as it slinks over to the Chicago Bulls today, rooting and hoping and praying that Derrick Rose can do what all of those Hall of Fame Celtics could not.
Give the Heat hater enough time, and back the Heat hater into a corner, and he will figure out a way to make even Zach Randolph the lovable rooting interest against this team.
But you might celebrate like James did, too, if you had spent so many months listening to so many angry American voices — fans, media, former players, former legends — mock and shred a decision you made about where to work. It is an extraordinary weight he has carried all year, as the radioactive symbol for a team that might be rooted against as much as any in the history of American sports, so there is going to be a disproportionate bliss attached to the rewards, too.


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/12/2214823/a-slice-of-vindication-for-miami.html#ixzz1MGGdkQQW


And that pep rally when they got signed was for us, not anybody else. It was no different when Shaq got traded here and they had a parade with him hanging out of a gian truck squirting a super soaker at people. Thats how we do things down here. We celebrate, we're happy, we party, we show emotion. Thats why people vacation down here and not in doom and gloom Cleveland

This thread sucks, I'm out. And junc, it feels like its been forever since we talked sports. Good to have you back in this forum. Seriously.

nyjunc
05-13-2011, 03:52 PM
What the hell is your point



And that pep rally when they got signed was for us, not anybody else. It was no different when Shaq got traded here and they had a parade with him hanging out of a gian truck squirting a super soaker at people. Thats how we do things down here. We celebrate, we're happy, we party, we show emotion. Thats why people vacation down here and not in doom and gloom Cleveland

This thread sucks, I'm out. And junc, it feels like its been forever since we talked sports. Good to have you back in this forum. Seriously.

The homer Heat writers are playing the "everyone hates the Heat" card:lol2:

The thing for Shaq was silly too.


Have fun w/ all of this, we all root for many teams and it's hard to win championships. Enjoy the ride and don't worry about people saying bad things about lebron.

JCane
05-13-2011, 04:10 PM
Does Miami win their lone title without Shaq being on the team?

Absolutely not.

JCane
05-13-2011, 04:17 PM
junk, EVERYONE goes to play with other superstars IF the team doesn't surround him with superstars first.

Cleveland didn't do it despite having every opportunity. It's not "who knows what they would have done." We DO KNOW what they wouldn't have done. They showed us for seven years what they wouldn't do.

Catered to LeBron? He's your superstar franchise player . Yes, by all means, cater to HIM if you want to keep him. Miami caters to LeBron AND puts superstars around him.

Carmelo ran off to New York. Kevin Garnett ran off to Boston. Barkley ran off here and there. It goes on and on. Garnett knew he wouldn't win anything in Minnesota lol. Carmelo wouldn't win anything in Denver and probably still won't in New York but I applaud the guy for making career moves to help benefit HIMSELF.

You do things that benefit YOU but for some reason it's different if you're an athlete. You guys look at athletes like they should he perfect and above everyone else. They're nothing more than regular dudes with regular lives and families like you and I. LeBron is being handed NOTHING. Some damn good teams out there we need to beat.

nyjunc
05-13-2011, 04:31 PM
junk, EVERYONE goes to play with other superstars IF the team doesn't surround him with superstars first.

Cleveland didn't do it despite having every opportunity. It's not "who knows what they would have done." We DO KNOW what they wouldn't have done. They showed us for seven years what they wouldn't do.

Catered to LeBron? He's your superstar franchise player . Yes, by all means, cater to HIM if you want to keep him. Miami caters to LeBron AND puts superstars around him.

Carmelo ran off to New York. Kevin Garnett ran off to Boston. Barkley ran off here and there. It goes on and on. Garnett knew he wouldn't win anything in Minnesota lol. Carmelo wouldn't win anything in Denver and probably still won't in New York but I applaud the guy for making career moves to help benefit HIMSELF.

You do things that benefit YOU but for some reason it's different if you're an athlete. You guys look at athletes like they should he perfect and above everyone else. They're nothing more than regular dudes with regular lives and families like you and I. LeBron is being handed NOTHING. Some damn good teams out there we need to beat.

Barkley, Garnett and 'Melo were not stars on the level of Lebron and none were FAs though obviously Melo forced Denvers hand.

Carmelo had better chance to win in Denver, him leaving wasn't about winning so I respect him less than Lebron though again melo is nowhere near the level of player that Lebron is.

There's nothing about these guys that are regular, they don't have a regular job. You started this stuff last summer, there is no connection btw the average person and what these guys have gone through or are going through. You cannot compare what they have gone through to what the average working man/woman goes through.

jree
05-13-2011, 04:34 PM
The homer Heat writers are playing the "everyone hates the Heat" card:lol2:

The thing for Shaq was silly too.


Have fun w/ all of this, we all root for many teams and it's hard to win championships. Enjoy the ride and don't worry about people saying bad things about lebron.

Well what about Collin Cowherd, Jalen Rose, Chris Mullen, or any of those guys that are supporters and not homers?

I'm not worried about people saying bad things about Lebron. Thats why I was saying this thread sucks, I'm not changing your opinion and your not changing mine. Thats the great thing about debating sports, you can't take things personal

nyjunc
05-13-2011, 04:46 PM
Well what about Collin Cowherd, Jalen Rose, Chris Mullen, or any of those guys that are supporters and not homers?

I'm not worried about people saying bad things about Lebron. Thats why I was saying this thread sucks, I'm not changing your opinion and your not changing mine. Thats the great thing about debating sports, you can't take things personal

All of this stuff is nonsense, all the debates on here are. None of it is changing our lives, I love debating this stuff and it's fun to debate w/ knowledgeable fans like you guys.

JCane
05-13-2011, 05:43 PM
Barkley, Garnett and 'Melo were not stars on the level of Lebron and none were FAs though obviously Melo forced Denvers hand.

Carmelo had better chance to win in Denver, him leaving wasn't about winning so I respect him less than Lebron though again melo is nowhere near the level of player that Lebron is.

There's nothing about these guys that are regular, they don't have a regular job. You started this stuff last summer, there is no connection btw the average person and what these guys have gone through or are going through. You cannot compare what they have gone through to what the average working man/woman goes through.

These are regular guys. Maybe they don't have regular jobs like you and I but they are regular people. People are people and just because you're some superstar athlete it doesn't mean that you're more of a person than everyone else. YOU have made them into more than they really are. That's a YOU problem.

Carmelo and Garnett both forced their team's hand. Both held their franchises hostage and got what they wanted. Same with LeBron only he stuck out his contracts and then moved on.

LeBron is more than a basketball player in the NBA. He's a brand. He's changing the game from a business perspective. No one else is doing that. Kobe didn't. Rose isn't. Wade isn't. LeBron is. And Cleveland wouldn't have traded him and Cleveland wasn't putting a winning product around him.

What should he have done, junk? Hope?

nyjunc
05-16-2011, 08:33 AM
These are regular guys. Maybe they don't have regular jobs like you and I but they are regular people. People are people and just because you're some superstar athlete it doesn't mean that you're more of a person than everyone else. YOU have made them into more than they really are. That's a YOU problem.

Carmelo and Garnett both forced their team's hand. Both held their franchises hostage and got what they wanted. Same with LeBron only he stuck out his contracts and then moved on.

LeBron is more than a basketball player in the NBA. He's a brand. He's changing the game from a business perspective. No one else is doing that. Kobe didn't. Rose isn't. Wade isn't. LeBron is. And Cleveland wouldn't have traded him and Cleveland wasn't putting a winning product around him.

What should he have done, junk? Hope?

They are not regular people, they have been coddled since they were very little b/c they had a gift that very few people have. They worked on their gift to make them great players as they continued to rise through each level. Thir situations are nothing like that of the average working person.

Garnett wante to stay in Minneosota so he didn't force anything, Barkely I don't recall but he had some off court issues and I think Philly had enough.

That's probably why lebron hasn't won, b/c he is more concerned w/ his brand rather than winning and this FA allowed him the easiest path to start winning. he thought he would be handed titles.

SpurzN703
05-16-2011, 09:04 AM
Absolutely not.

Every team that has won the NBA title won it on a little good fortune. That goes without saying. You guys with Shaq and now Bosh/LBJ. My guys with drafting Duncan. The Lakers with Shaq. The Celtics with Allen/Garnett.

This year might be different though if OKC or Chicago win it all. Most (not all) of their guys (main stars) have come up through their system.

JCane
05-16-2011, 08:04 PM
Who seen LeBron James and the Heat get handed a title last night?

I mean, that's the whole reason LeBron came to Miami, right?

:lol:

nyjunc
05-17-2011, 09:01 AM
Who seen LeBron James and the Heat get handed a title last night?

I mean, that's the whole reason LeBron came to Miami, right?

:lol:

The series is over after one game? and that was his thinking, he didn't accept the challenge of trying to win w/ a team built around him so he went to a ready made team. This team is going to win multiple championships whether that starts this year or not is irrlevant. if they lose this year it will be funny b/c he thought he was guaranteed a title and to watch him choke again would be enjoyable but this series is far from over.

j-off-her-doll
05-17-2011, 03:31 PM
The series is over after one game? and that was his thinking, he didn't accept the challenge of trying to win w/ a team built around him so he went to a ready made team. This team is going to win multiple championships whether that starts this year or not is irrlevant. if they lose this year it will be funny b/c he thought he was guaranteed a title and to watch him choke again would be enjoyable but this series is far from over.

Lebron would have been guaranteed multiple titles in Chicago - a much better fit for him than Miami.

His signing with Miami tells me one of three things:

1. His basketball IQ is average at best.
2. He couldn't handle Jordan's shadow in Chicago.
3. He'd rather hang out with his friends than win titles.

. . .

Before the season, I was professing my love for Thibbs and how perfect a fit it'd be for him in Chicago. If James went to the Bulls I would have guaranteed a title for the Bulls - assuming the health of James and Rose. Boozer (by the way, I didn't love the Boozer signing) isn't even playing at 100% right now. He's a guy that is a legitimate 22 and 10 kind of player. Now, he's playing more like a 17 and 8 kind of player. When/if he gets his legs back next year, the Bulls should look a lot better.

I'd like to see the Bulls add some scoring at the wing - even if it's just in the form of a 6th man kind of player.

But, the point I'm trying to make here:

The Bulls are built like a team. The Heat are not. The Heat won't be guaranteed any titles as long as Thibbs, Roe, and Noah are in Chicago.

JCane
05-17-2011, 11:20 PM
The series is over after one game? and that was his thinking, he didn't accept the challenge of trying to win w/ a team built around him so he went to a ready made team. This team is going to win multiple championships whether that starts this year or not is irrlevant. if they lose this year it will be funny b/c he thought he was guaranteed a title and to watch him choke again would be enjoyable but this series is far from over.

No, YOU thought he was guaranteed a title this season.

DLC didn't walk into the season thinking they were going to destroy all opposition. Titles are still earned on the floor. YOU bought into the media hype of guaranteeing championships. DLC never came out and said they had one in the bag like so many Heat haters wish to believe.

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 08:42 AM
No, YOU thought he was guaranteed a title this season.

DLC didn't walk into the season thinking they were going to destroy all opposition. Titles are still earned on the floor. YOU bought into the media hype of guaranteeing championships. DLC never came out and said they had one in the bag like so many Heat haters wish to believe.

I never said that, I said they are going to win titles int he coming years whether that starts this year or not I don't know.

I don't buy into any media hype, I form my own opinions. It's easy to see what he has done, he's not the competitor most great players are. he took the easy way out- if you weren't a Heat fan you'd be able to see it. I don't have a stake in this, I'm not a big NBA fan but I appreciate greatness when I do watch the NBA. As a fan it's disappointing a player as great as he is would take the easy way out.

tylerdolphin
05-18-2011, 11:17 AM
The series is over after one game? and that was his thinking, he didn't accept the challenge of trying to win w/ a team built around him so he went to a ready made team. This team is going to win multiple championships whether that starts this year or not is irrlevant. if they lose this year it will be funny b/c he thought he was guaranteed a title and to watch him choke again would be enjoyable but this series is far from over.

Do you feel the same way about Pierce and Garnett?

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 11:27 AM
Do you feel the same way about Pierce and Garnett?

First off neither of those players are on the level of Lebron and 2nd Pierce didn't go anywhere and garnett didn't want to leave Minnesota- they trdaed him.

This would be like Michael Jordan leaving Chicago or Magic leaving LA. lebron is on that level, those other players are not.

SpurzN703
05-18-2011, 11:54 AM
First off neither of those players are on the level of Lebron and 2nd Pierce didn't go anywhere and garnett didn't want to leave Minnesota- they trdaed him.

This would be like Michael Jordan leaving Chicago or Magic leaving LA. lebron is on that level, those other players are not.

I agree with Junc. I do wonder though how all of this would be viewed if LBJ and his 'Decision' had occurred in the 70s or 80s. The media overexposure of today certainly has played into the hands of the negative-minded fans that dislike LBJ for how he handled choosing his next destination.

SpurzN703
05-18-2011, 11:56 AM
Do you feel the same way about Pierce and Garnett?

Pierce has been a Celtic his whole career. I don't see the connection. Did you mean Ray Allen? Him and Garnett were both traded to Boston

tylerdolphin
05-18-2011, 12:51 PM
First off neither of those players are on the level of Lebron and 2nd Pierce didn't go anywhere and garnett didn't want to leave Minnesota- they trdaed him.

This would be like Michael Jordan leaving Chicago or Magic leaving LA. lebron is on that level, those other players are not.

But surely their championship is tainted. Same with Kobe's 3 rings with Shaq and Shaqs 4 with Kobe/Wade. None of them accepted the challenge of winning a ring by themselves.

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 01:51 PM
But surely their championship is tainted. Same with Kobe's 3 rings with Shaq and Shaqs 4 with Kobe/Wade. None of them accepted the challenge of winning a ring by themselves.

Shaq went to LA when the Lakers had nothing, he had a better chance to win in orlando through the 90s but he went to LA. They traded for Kobe on draft day the year they signed Shaq but no one knew what kobe would become. LA built around them for years before finally breaking through 4 years later.

As far as Boston, they acquired some vets heading towards the end of their careers seeking a title but last I checked none of them begged out, none were FAs and had a TV show to humiliate their former team.

Every team will have traded players and FAs on their teams, only one has a superstar FA who was afraid to put in the work to win one w/ his original team.

tylerdolphin
05-18-2011, 03:05 PM
Shaq went to LA when the Lakers had nothing, he had a better chance to win in orlando through the 90s but he went to LA. They traded for Kobe on draft day the year they signed Shaq but no one knew what kobe would become. LA built around them for years before finally breaking through 4 years later.

As far as Boston, they acquired some vets heading towards the end of their careers seeking a title but last I checked none of them begged out, none were FAs and had a TV show to humiliate their former team.

Every team will have traded players and FAs on their teams, only one has a superstar FA who was afraid to put in the work to win one w/ his original team.

OK. So its OK if you win championships with other good players as long as you didnt specifically plan it that way. Do you even hear yourself? Whats the difference between intentionally pairing up with a great player and accidentally teaming up with a great player?

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 03:26 PM
OK. So its OK if you win championships with other good players as long as you didnt specifically plan it that way. Do you even hear yourself? Whats the difference between intentionally pairing up with a great player and accidentally teaming up with a great player?

This is about Lebron w/ me. A guy who could be a top 5/top 10 all time player taking the easy way out to go to a ready made team. That is my problem. I have no probelm w/ Wade or Bosh, I have no problem w/ Riley or the Heat it's about lebron and as a basketball fan how disappointing it is to see such a great player take the easy way out to a title.

Shaq didn't leave Orlando b/c he was afraid to lead a team, he went to a team that was worse than the one he left. Lebron left b/c he was scare dhe'd never win in Cleveland which is an attitude a great player should never have.

jree
05-18-2011, 03:34 PM
Whats going to be the over/under of this thread

tylerdolphin
05-18-2011, 03:41 PM
This is about Lebron w/ me. A guy who could be a top 5/top 10 all time player taking the easy way out to go to a ready made team. That is my problem. I have no probelm w/ Wade or Bosh, I have no problem w/ Riley or the Heat it's about lebron and as a basketball fan how disappointing it is to see such a great player take the easy way out to a title.

Shaq didn't leave Orlando b/c he was afraid to lead a team, he went to a team that was worse than the one he left. Lebron left b/c he was scare dhe'd never win in Cleveland which is an attitude a great player should never have.

And he was never gonna win in Cleveland. Just look at the team they managed to assemble around him after SEVEN years. It was a joke. He gave them two contracts to give him some reliable help. They gave Lebron nothing. Nobody can win by themselves. Where was LeBron's Pippen in Cleveland?

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 03:48 PM
And he was never gonna win in Cleveland. Just look at the team they managed to assemble around him after SEVEN years. It was a joke. He gave them two contracts to give him some reliable help. They gave Lebron nothing. Nobody can win by themselves. Where was LeBron's Pippen in Cleveland?

They won 60 games a year, they didn't win in postseason b/c Lebron couldn't handle the pressure. He didn't have great teams around him but he had teams good enough to win if he showed up when it mattered most.

Jorsan made Pippen, Pippen was only in his early 30s when he left Chicago and how much did he win w/o Michael? Heck, that Portland team was immensely talented- how come they didn't win? There are no great teams today, Lebron didn't need a Pippen against these watered down "great" teams. he just needed to be Lebron in big spots.

tylerdolphin
05-18-2011, 03:55 PM
They won 60 games a year, they didn't win in postseason b/c Lebron couldn't handle the pressure. He didn't have great teams around him but he had teams good enough to win if he showed up when it mattered most.

Jorsan made Pippen, Pippen was only in his early 30s when he left Chicago and how much did he win w/o Michael? Heck, that Portland team was immensely talented- how come they didn't win? There are no great teams today, Lebron didn't need a Pippen against these watered down "great" teams. he just needed to be Lebron in big spots.

The playoffs are a different animal and you know this. A one man show was never going to beat the Celtics or any legitimate team with multiple stars. Never. Lebrons next best player was Delonte West lol. Just think about that. The same dude Coming off the bench for Boston this year.

Do you think Kobe is a top 10 all time player? WTF has he ever accomplished without another star by his side?

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 03:58 PM
The playoffs are a different animal and you know this. A one man show was never going to beat the Celtics or any legitimate team with multiple stars. Never. Lebrons next best player was Delonte West lol. Just think about that. The same dude Coming off the bench for Boston this year.

Do you think Kobe is a top 10 all time player? WTF has he ever accomplished without another star by his side?

They are, the best players step up. Lebron failed to step up last year and facing another "one man team" in orlando 2 years ago he failed to step up as he celebrated prematurely like he won an NBA title again after hitting the last second shot in game 2.

The Celtics of the past few years were not GREAT teams, they were really good but far from unbeatable. There haven't been any truly great teams in a years- MAYBE SA, the Lakers in the early 00s. The quality of play in the Finals last year was brutal. he had chances to win in Cleveland, he failed to step up and put his team on his back.

tylerdolphin
05-18-2011, 04:06 PM
They are, the best players step up. Lebron failed to step up last year and facing another "one man team" in orlando 2 years ago he failed to step up as he celebrated prematurely like he won an NBA title again after hitting the last second shot in game 2.

The Celtics of the past few years were not GREAT teams, they were really good but far from unbeatable. There haven't been any truly great teams in a years- MAYBE SA, the Lakers in the early 00s. The quality of play in the Finals last year was brutal. he had chances to win in Cleveland, he failed to step up and put his team on his back.

Im out. Get back to me when someone wins a title when their right hand man is Delonte West. I dont even know what to tell you if you look at Boston's roster last year, look at Clevelands last year and expected a different result. You are expecting LeBron to do something nobody in history has ever done. He isnt God.

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 04:13 PM
Im out. Get back to me when someone wins a title when their right hand man is Delonte West. I dont even know what to tell you if you look at Boston's roster last year, look at Clevelands last year and expected a different result. You are expecting LeBron to do something nobody in history has ever done. He isnt God.

He didn't even make the Finals the last couple of years when he had top seeded teams. Tell me all the great players dwight Howard had around him 2 years ago?

I'm expecting Lebron to do what I expect top 5 type players to do and that's will their teams to titles. He took the easy way out, all time talent but CBA type competitor.

JCane
05-18-2011, 05:02 PM
OK. So its OK if you win championships with other good players as long as you didnt specifically plan it that way. Do you even hear yourself? Whats the difference between intentionally pairing up with a great player and accidentally teaming up with a great player?


Game. Set. Match.

Give it up junk. You're the only person who believes this dribble you're spewing.

Da **** has Dwight Howard ever won? He knows he can't win in Orlando. And he'll either force a trade or Blane more teammates next season to make it look like it isn't his fault he bolted.

You can will people to certain things but greatness is not one of them. This is a team sport and you're demanding that one man do it all. Get real.

nyjunc
05-18-2011, 05:17 PM
Game. Set. Match.

Give it up junk. You're the only person who believes this dribble you're spewing.

Da **** has Dwight Howard ever won? He knows he can't win in Orlando. And he'll either force a trade or Blane more teammates next season to make it look like it isn't his fault he bolted.

You can will people to certain things but greatness is not one of them. This is a team sport and you're demanding that one man do it all. Get real.

Game. set. match? that's nonsense, you are taking totally different situations. Lebron is on a level much greater than those other players besides Shaq and Shaq left a BETTER team, he wasn't scared to win in orlando but he had other reasons for leaving. I didn't like it for the league but it was very different from Lebron.

Dwight beat Lebron and his better Cle team 2 years ago. Just like Lebron celebrated beating an old, beat Boston team like he won the title he celebrated the GW shot in game 2of that series like he won the title. He doesn't understand what winning is about, that's why he was talking 5,6,7 titles at that ridiclous celebration last summer. he wants it handed to him.

JCane
05-18-2011, 06:00 PM
If LeBron is on a completely different level than all of the others, then that right there should tell you how difficult it is for just one superstar to win it all in any given season. You have to be surrounded by a great team and have a great coach. LeBron had neither. LeBron had maybe one other AVERAGE player in Cleveland. And he didn't have a great coach.

Shaq left a better team lol? Orlando was good because of Shaq. All they really had was Hardaway. And we ALL knew what Kobe was going to be. Lakers had Phil Jackson. Talk about a dream team lol. Shaq knew what he was doing by going to a place he wanted to be AND be surrounded by another superstar and superstar head coach.

The years LeBron was in Cleveland was a fluke and everyone could see it. No one really thought Cleveland was going to win titles with those awful teams. I was ****ing stunned they even made the Finals. When they made the Finals, that's when I decided that LeBron was the best in the world. For him to take that trash to the Finals was just incredible. Talk about will power. It must really suck to go to work everyday knowing you work with a bunch of baboons and still get to the Finals.

nyjunc
05-19-2011, 09:34 AM
If LeBron is on a completely different level than all of the others, then that right there should tell you how difficult it is for just one superstar to win it all in any given season. You have to be surrounded by a great team and have a great coach. LeBron had neither. LeBron had maybe one other AVERAGE player in Cleveland. And he didn't have a great coach.

Shaq left a better team lol? Orlando was good because of Shaq. All they really had was Hardaway. And we ALL knew what Kobe was going to be. Lakers had Phil Jackson. Talk about a dream team lol. Shaq knew what he was doing by going to a place he wanted to be AND be surrounded by another superstar and superstar head coach.

The years LeBron was in Cleveland was a fluke and everyone could see it. No one really thought Cleveland was going to win titles with those awful teams. I was ****ing stunned they even made the Finals. When they made the Finals, that's when I decided that LeBron was the best in the world. For him to take that trash to the Finals was just incredible. Talk about will power. It must really suck to go to work everyday knowing you work with a bunch of baboons and still get to the Finals.

Kobe has not been surroudned by a great team w/ the recent titles, some of the years Duncan won he wsn't surrpunded by great teams. Howard had veyr little around him whe he beat lebron and the Cavs, hakeem didn't have much around him. These are all excuses, he would have won in Cleveland at some point and would alreayd have a title if he had stepped up his game when it mattered most.

Shaq and Penny were better than sahq and anyone LA had at the time.

Kobe was the first non big man to go straight from HS to the NBA. No one knew he'd be as greata s he has been. if that was the case why did he fall so low int he draft? why did Charlotte trade him?

Kdawg954
05-19-2011, 12:50 PM
Junc, you really need to give it a rest. This is professional basketball not politics. Yea, Lebron could have gone down as a Cleveland legend, I mean a city could have been named in his honor when it was all said and done, but the man played out his contract and he wanted to play ball somewhere else. I don't see what the problem is. Yea if he held his team hostage then I could see a more justified criticism, but because in your opinion he is this almighty god, he should have stayed, but yet we see future HOF's like Garnett and Melo demand trades pretty much and that gets swept under the rug . . . I am not following. He was not obligated to stay. Didn't the man have like a 26 point quarter in the playoffs and still lose? Lebron is such a complete player, to have a sidekick like Wade next to him, it allows him to become a better defender, passer and rebounder.

IMO Wade is a much more natural scorer than Lebron . . . but Lebron is such a more complete player that it fits his game to have a guy like Wade next to him. I know people don't want to believe that, but it's true. This all sounds like a cryfest to be honest with you . . . do you really think the WAY he left Cleveland is gonna effect his legacy if he wins 5 rings in a row? Hell even if he only wins 3? Trust me it won't. He has the opportunity to create a dynasty here in Miami, something he will be remembered for much more than grinding out a ring in Cleveland, if that thought was even possible.


He apologized to Cleveland because he knows he let down alot of fans by not returning, but he isn't obligated to return once his contract is up. Pairing up 2 stars is the way of getting it done in the NBA in this day and age. The fans that now dislike him in Cleveland have been replaced by ones who LOVE him in Miami. It is just the way things go.

You of all people know that Dan Marino is the greatest QB of all time, but gets overlooked because he "stuck it out" and could never win that ring . . . just how Malone will start getting overlooked, just how Barkley gets overlooked and how Pat Ewing gets overlooked. Lebron faced a similar fate if he stayed in Cleveland and whether "his brand" required a change of venue or not, he played his contract out, giving him the opportunity to do whatever the **** he wanted. There won't be any asterisks in the record book saying "won title with Wade" . . . it will say "Miami Heat" won a title, its a TEAM sport, no matter how great you think one individual player is.

tylerdolphin
05-19-2011, 01:00 PM
Kobe has not been surroudned by a great team w/ the recent titles, some of the years Duncan won he wsn't surrpunded by great teams.

I said I was out of this thread but god damn...I cant read something that monumentally stupid and let it fly. The Lakers had at least 4, probably 5 players aside from Kobe that were better than anyone on the Cavs roster other than Lebron. Thats a FACT. I honestly dont see how it can be argued. The Spurs teams had Ginobli, Parker, Horry, Robinson, and Bowen. The first two and Robinson were head and shoulders better than anything on the Cavs roster. The others you can make a case that they were.

nyjunc
05-19-2011, 01:41 PM
I said I was out of this thread but god damn...I cant read something that monumentally stupid and let it fly. The Lakers had at least 4, probably 5 players aside from Kobe that were better than anyone on the Cavs roster other than Lebron. Thats a FACT. I honestly dont see how it can be argued. The Spurs teams had Ginobli, Parker, Horry, Robinson, and Bowen. The first two and Robinson were head and shoulders better than anything on the Cavs roster. The others you can make a case that they were.

They didn't have a grea team around Kobe, Kone makes all those castoffs from other teams look better which is what lebron did w/ his cast.

David Robinson was on his last legs when they won in 2003, SA loved Tony parker so much they wanted to replace him w/ Jason Kidd, Ginobolli was a rookie and yet Duncan still managed to lead them to the title.

There aren't any great teams in the NBA anymore(until the Heat learn how to play together), he could have and should have won in Cleveland. Cleveland didn't win b/c of their star not b/c of their supporting cast.

tylerdolphin
05-19-2011, 01:57 PM
They didn't have a grea team around Kobe, Kone makes all those castoffs from other teams look better which is what lebron did w/ his cast.

David Robinson was on his last legs when they won in 2003, SA loved Tony parker so much they wanted to replace him w/ Jason Kidd, Ginobolli was a rookie and yet Duncan still managed to lead them to the title.

There aren't any great teams in the NBA anymore(until the Heat learn how to play together), he could have and should have won in Cleveland. Cleveland didn't win b/c of their star not b/c of their supporting cast.

Whatever their faults are, the fact remains that the Lakers had at a minimum 4 players better than every other player on the Cavs roster. You cant deny that. Great? Other than Gasol and Ginobli to an extent, no. But they are more than good enough to complement the stars. That Cleveland roster was/is horrible.

nyjunc
05-19-2011, 02:03 PM
The Cle roster was good enough to win 60+ games w/, good enough to get to a Finals and mult conf finals. They weren't far off based on how great Lebron is but he couldn't step up when his team needed him most.

Obviously he didn't have a great team around him but I really feel he could have won in Cleveland. That's how great of a player I think he is.

JCane
05-19-2011, 02:14 PM
They didn't have a grea team around Kobe, Kone makes all those castoffs from other teams look better which is what lebron did w/ his cast.


The Cle roster was good enough to win 60+ games w/, good enough to get to a Finals and mult conf finals. They weren't far off based on how great Lebron is but he couldn't step up when his team needed him most.

Ok, which is it? Either the Cleveland team was good...or LeBron was the one making all of those castoffs look better?

You're pissing all over yourself at this point.

Kobe was on a "good" team and Kobe was a "great" player. But Kobe wasn't winning anything without Shaq. LeBron wasn't winning anything with Antwan Jamison.

Fact is, Cleveland SUCKED and it was blatantly obvious to anyone with eyeballs. I don't care how many games they won. Never mattered because the great teams (Boston and Los Angeles) would flip switches when the playoffs began.

nyjunc
05-19-2011, 02:26 PM
Ok, which is it? Either the Cleveland team was good...or LeBron was the one making all of those castoffs look better?

You're pissing all over yourself at this point.

Kobe was on a "good" team and Kobe was a "great" player. But Kobe wasn't winning anything without Shaq. LeBron wasn't winning anything with Antwan Jamison.

Fact is, Cleveland SUCKED and it was blatantly obvious to anyone with eyeballs. I don't care how many games they won. Never mattered because the great teams (Boston and Los Angeles) would flip switches when the playoffs began.

Good enough and good are 2 different things, wouldn't you agree?

Kobe won w/o Shaq.

Lebron could have won w/ an AS player like Antawn but Lebron didn't do his part. he was more concerned w/ "The Decision".

The great teams like the celtics who have 1 title in 24 years?

JCane
05-19-2011, 02:41 PM
Didn't do his part??

LeBron was responsible for at least 42 of the 60 wins.

:lol:

Antwan didn't do HIS part. Neither did JJ Hickson or the rest of that trash around him. Christ, just admit that you hate LeBron more than any other human being in the history of ever and end all of this.

And Kobe didn't win **** without Shaq. Once Shaq left and came to Miami, Kobe floundered in Los Angeles. And Kobe KNEW he wasn't going to win a damn thing if he didn't get some help. So he began complaining (like he should have) that Buss either needed to get him some legit help, or he's gonna bail. Nothing wrong with Kobe's "plan" though right? You don't have a problem with that for some reason lol.

And what does Los Angeles do? Everything that Cleveland never did for LeBron. They went out and landed Pau Gasol who was an A player when they landed him. I think he's still an A player if he isn't dealing with off the court bull**** but he's soft so everything affects him. Then Los Angeles realized they weren't physical enough, so they go out and get Ron Artest and then win again.

This is the difference between winners and losers. You're placing all of the blame on LeBron and none of it on Cleveland. EVERYONE but you could see that Cleveland wasn't good enough. Analysts and experts kept saying that LeBron needed help...so Gilbert goes out and gets Antwan Jamison, who is a B player on his best day, and someone called Jamario Moon.

:bobdole:

And just ****ing stop it with the 1 title in 24 years. I'm not trying to place Boston in a class with the all-time great teams. I'm talking on a year-to-year basis. The Celtics have been a great team. This season, Chicago, Miami, Oklahoma City and Dallas...these are the great, elite teams in the league this season.

nyjunc
05-19-2011, 04:01 PM
Didn't do his part??

LeBron was responsible for at least 42 of the 60 wins.

:lol:

Antwan didn't do HIS part. Neither did JJ Hickson or the rest of that trash around him. Christ, just admit that you hate LeBron more than any other human being in the history of ever and end all of this.

And Kobe didn't win **** without Shaq. Once Shaq left and came to Miami, Kobe floundered in Los Angeles. And Kobe KNEW he wasn't going to win a damn thing if he didn't get some help. So he began complaining (like he should have) that Buss either needed to get him some legit help, or he's gonna bail. Nothing wrong with Kobe's "plan" though right? You don't have a problem with that for some reason lol.

And what does Los Angeles do? Everything that Cleveland never did for LeBron. They went out and landed Pau Gasol who was an A player when they landed him. I think he's still an A player if he isn't dealing with off the court bull**** but he's soft so everything affects him. Then Los Angeles realized they weren't physical enough, so they go out and get Ron Artest and then win again.

This is the difference between winners and losers. You're placing all of the blame on LeBron and none of it on Cleveland. EVERYONE but you could see that Cleveland wasn't good enough. Analysts and experts kept saying that LeBron needed help...so Gilbert goes out and gets Antwan Jamison, who is a B player on his best day, and someone called Jamario Moon.

:bobdole:

And just ****ing stop it with the 1 title in 24 years. I'm not trying to place Boston in a class with the all-time great teams. I'm talking on a year-to-year basis. The Celtics have been a great team. This season, Chicago, Miami, Oklahoma City and Dallas...these are the great, elite teams in the league this season.

Yep, Lebron did his part shooting 18-53(34%) over the last 3 games of the east Semi's last year:lol:


The Celtics have not been a great team, there are no great teams in today's NBA. The Celts made 2 freakin' NBA Finals and won only one of them. You act like they were some great dynasty. The year they won they went 7 games in the qtrs and semis in the East. That was not a great team, just better than the rest of the mediocre teams in the NBA.

SpurzN703
05-19-2011, 04:47 PM
This is about Lebron w/ me. A guy who could be a top 5/top 10 all time player taking the easy way out to go to a ready made team. That is my problem. I have no probelm w/ Wade or Bosh, I have no problem w/ Riley or the Heat it's about lebron and as a basketball fan how disappointing it is to see such a great player take the easy way out to a title.

Shaq didn't leave Orlando b/c he was afraid to lead a team, he went to a team that was worse than the one he left. Lebron left b/c he was scare dhe'd never win in Cleveland which is an attitude a great player should never have.

How is Miami a ready-made team? LBJ was the first to sign with them right? I thought Bosh came next. Then they signed a bunch of guys to minimum contracts just to round out the roster. There was no guarantee Bosh would sign there.

I have no problem with LBJ going to Miami as a free agent, that's the point of free agency. His TV special and all that **** is what I dislike the guy for. You'll never win the fight with these Heat-hens :)

nyjunc
05-19-2011, 04:49 PM
How is Miami a ready-made team? LBJ was the first to sign with them right? I thought Bosh came next. Then they signed a bunch of guys to minimum contracts just to round out the roster. There was no guarantee Bosh would sign there.

I have no problem with LBJ going to Miami as a free agent, that's the point of free agency. His TV special and all that **** is what I dislike the guy for. You'll never win the fight with these Heat-hens :)

They all signed together, he went to Miami knowing Wade and Bosh would be there. It was a ready made team.

As a FA he had the right to go where he wanted to but it's still disappointing such a great player would take the easy way out to a title.

SpurzN703
05-19-2011, 04:55 PM
They all signed together, he went to Miami knowing Wade and Bosh would be there. It was a ready made team.

As a FA he had the right to go where he wanted to but it's still disappointing such a great player would take the easy way out to a title.

It seems to be the thing to do in the league now. With Carmelo going to NY, Chris Paul in all likelihood going to NY, Howard to L.A., why not right? Pretty soon you're going to have a few dominant teams and a bunch of middle-tier teams who aren't close to competing.

nyjunc
05-19-2011, 04:59 PM
It seems to be the thing to do in the league now. With Carmelo going to NY, Chris Paul in all likelihood going to NY, Howard to L.A., why not right? Pretty soon you're going to have a few dominant teams and a bunch of middle-tier teams who aren't close to competing.

I know and I hate it all around not just in Miami though the Knicks being good is good for business so I'm more ok w/ that:D

tylerdolphin
05-19-2011, 05:21 PM
Yep, Lebron did his part shooting 18-53(34%) over the last 3 games of the east Semi's last year:lol:


The Celtics have not been a great team, there are no great teams in today's NBA. The Celts made 2 freakin' NBA Finals and won only one of them. You act like they were some great dynasty. The year they won they went 7 games in the qtrs and semis in the East. That was not a great team, just better than the rest of the mediocre teams in the NBA.

And his team helped him out like the Lakers did when Kobe shot poorly in a few finals games amirite?

CedarPhin
05-19-2011, 09:35 PM
If LeBron is on a completely different level than all of the others, then that right there should tell you how difficult it is for just one superstar to win it all in any given season. You have to be surrounded by a great team and have a great coach. LeBron had neither. LeBron had maybe one other AVERAGE player in Cleveland. And he didn't have a great coach.

Shaq left a better team lol? Orlando was good because of Shaq. All they really had was Hardaway. And we ALL knew what Kobe was going to be. Lakers had Phil Jackson. Talk about a dream team lol. Shaq knew what he was doing by going to a place he wanted to be AND be surrounded by another superstar and superstar head coach.

The years LeBron was in Cleveland was a fluke and everyone could see it. No one really thought Cleveland was going to win titles with those awful teams. I was ****ing stunned they even made the Finals. When they made the Finals, that's when I decided that LeBron was the best in the world. For him to take that trash to the Finals was just incredible. Talk about will power. It must really suck to go to work everyday knowing you work with a bunch of baboons and still get to the Finals.

Del Harris was the Lakers coach when Shaq went there, and IIRC, they had just gotten Kobe in a draft day trade with Charlotte. Shaq wanted the exposure of playing in LA. Phil Jackson was still in Chicago at that time.

CedarPhin
05-19-2011, 09:52 PM
Cleveland always seemed to pick the "Plan B" option up every time, either because a FA spurned them, or through the ineptness of their front office. Could have gotten Amare last year in a trade, they ****ed that one up. When they got Jamison, he was the fallback option.

Cleveland was a team of fallbacks, all players who were flawed in various parts of their game. Had LeBron had another good player playing with him in Cleveland, he may have very well been there today, so Cleveland's ineptness at acquisitions was their loss and ultimately, Miami's gain. There are times when he becomes a ghost, but now he's got someone (or several people) to help him should he go cold for a night. I don't blame him for leaving Cleveland, I would too.

No state income tax, better weather, better market, etc. It was a no-brainer.

JCane
05-20-2011, 12:27 AM
They all signed together, he went to Miami knowing Wade and Bosh would be there. It was a ready made team.

Still pissing all over yourself I see.

He went to a ready-made team in one sentence...then you say they have to learn to play together.

Which is it? Are they ready-made? Or do they have to learn how to play together which would mean the title was earned in your opinion.

No matter what your opinion, titles are earned at every level in every sport in every championship game.

The 2001 Miami Hurricanes were the GREATEST college football team in the history of ever. But you don't get handed title shots. That team still had to work hard and go out there every single week with a bullseye on their chest and take every opponent's best shot. Not one team brought their B game against the 2001 team.

It's really no different for the Heat.

82 games this season the opponent came out and gave it everything just because it was the big bad superpower that the media had built up and sold to you. If this team wins it all, they've EARNED it on the floor.

jree
05-20-2011, 01:44 AM
A) I'm taking your reference of The Canes being the greatest in the history of ever cause thats just an awesome sentence

and

B) Before a rebuttal about LDC putting their backs before the season started with the announcements of their ring promises and what not, that was meant for us Heat fans, not anybody else. I don't believe any other media outlet was called to their welcoming party excet Sun Sports. It wasn't like he went onto Letterman or Conan or ESPN and declared us the Champs. The Heat did it for their fans, not the nation. This is why I hate how Barkley chimes in and says they did it to themselves starting with the pep rally. What was Lebron supposed to tell us, "I just hope we stay above .500"

Fact of the matter is, everybody had somebody to help alleviate the pressure and i don't know why you and so many others are so quick to dismiss that notion. When Krause traded for Pippen, it was one of the greatest draft day trades to ever happen. Jordan was very lucky that that deal went down. I said it in a previous thread, Jordan is the greatest to ever play but he didn't exactly have the most talented of rosters to compete against. The Celtics, Pistons, and Lakers were all done by the time he won his first title. Detroit didn't make it back to the finals until this past decade.

Check this video out and if your still willing to dispute that Jordan didn't have that much help and that Scottie shouldn't be considered a top 50 player or that the 90's competition was really that tough then this thread is most definitley dead. I just found this vid but please focus more on minute 3:30 mark cause that goes with everything that I and many others have been saying about needing help.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p57WjbKSoJ0

nyjunc
05-20-2011, 08:21 AM
The 90s was watered down compared to the 80s which was the best decade ever in NBA history but the 00s were even worse than the 90s. Chicago would humilate any of these champions from this past decade w/ the exception of the eary 00s Lakers b/c they'd have no answer for Shaq. Those teams were nowhere near as talented as the Lakers, Celtics, Sixers or Psitons from the 80s but they had the greatest player of all time to carry them. Pippen would not be a 50 greatest player if he didn't play w/ Michael.

Kdawg954
05-20-2011, 09:26 AM
Pippen was one of the greatest defender's I ever saw hit the court. If they do a 75 year anniversary, it wouldn't surprise me if he isn't on the 50 greatest players list, and I do think playing with Jordan definitely helped his legacy . . . but that won't be the case with Lebron. Lebron already has his legacy . . . winning multiple titles, whether with the "Heatles" or solo in Cleveland won't make a difference.

JCane
05-20-2011, 09:27 AM
Jordan doesn't win **** without Pippen.

nyjunc
05-20-2011, 09:32 AM
Pippen was one of the greatest defender's I ever saw hit the court. If they do a 75 year anniversary, it wouldn't surprise me if he isn't on the 50 greatest players list, and I do think playing with Jordan definitely helped his legacy . . . but that won't be the case with Lebron. Lebron already has his legacy . . . winning multiple titles, whether with the "Heatles" or solo in Cleveland won't make a difference.

Lebron's legacy is going to be taking the easy way out to a championship. Had he stayed and won in Cleveland he'd be almost on a level w/ Michael but that will never happen now. he'll win, he'll be an all time great but his legacy took a major hit last summer. he can rehab his legacy a bit depending upon how he wins these titles but it will be difficult.

nyjunc
05-20-2011, 09:34 AM
Jordan doesn't win **** without Pippen.

Yes he does, he still would have won multiple titles w/o a doubt and he'd have 2 more if he didn't leave for the year and a half.

JCane
05-20-2011, 09:37 AM
:lol:

Let me guess...he would have WILLED his team to victory!

SpurzN703
05-20-2011, 09:45 AM
Jordan doesn't win **** without Pippen.

Since it's a team game, I don't see anything wrong in that statement. It isn't 5 on 1 so having help is what's supposed to happen

Kdawg954
05-20-2011, 09:48 AM
Lebron's legacy is going to be taking the easy way out to a championship. Had he stayed and won in Cleveland he'd be almost on a level w/ Michael but that will never happen now. he'll win, he'll be an all time great but his legacy took a major hit last summer. he can rehab his legacy a bit depending upon how he wins these titles but it will be difficult.

But what you are failing to realize is, Lebron doesn't give a **** about what you think his legacy is. You don't think he knew he was gonna go thru this when he made the decision to go to Miami? Lebron WANTS TO WIN, and he gave himself the best chance of doing that by leaving Cleveland. Nothing else is relevant. The only way he was going to even enter the Jordan stratasphere is by winning "multiple" championships and he wasn't guaranteed that with Cleveland, now who knows how many he will win in Miami, if any, but atleast I respect the guy for playing out his contract and making a decision evolved around winning.

nyjunc
05-20-2011, 09:54 AM
But what you are failing to realize is, Lebron doesn't give a **** about what you think his legacy is. You don't think he knew he was gonna go thru this when he made the decision to go to Miami? Lebron WANTS TO WIN, and he gave himself the best chance of doing that by leaving Cleveland. Nothing else is relevant. The only way he was going to even enter the Jordan stratasphere is by winning "multiple" championships and he wasn't guaranteed that with Cleveland, now who knows how many he will win in Miami, if any, but atleast I respect the guy for playing out his contract and making a decision evolved around winning.

Lebron wants to win the easy way, I don't think he expected the backlash he got. If he did he never would have put on that dopey TV show to announce it.

---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 AM ----------


:lol:

Let me guess...he would have WILLED his team to victory!

That's what he did w/ Pippen so why couldn't he do it w/o him? He had no help at all in the late 80s pre-Pippen become a productive starter and he still had his teams competitive w/ some great teams.

Kdawg954
05-20-2011, 09:54 AM
Jordan doesn't win **** without Pippen.

To take that even further, I don't think they win 3 straight w/o Rodman either. All the great teams had great role players, hell just go back to the 94-95 Rockets . . . yea they had Drexler and Olajuawon, but they had guys like Sam Cassell and Robert Horry, guys who if not on that team don't win those rings. The Spurs teams always had good role players in addition to Duncan/Parker. Hell the Heat had Zo and Posey doing damage off the bench, they don't win that series w/o those players. Yes the superstars can lead you to the playoffs, even get you into the finals, but you need role players to win that ring, and there isn't a team in history that won a championship w/o significant contributions/plays made by teammates.

nyjunc
05-20-2011, 10:04 AM
To take that even further, I don't think they win 3 straight w/o Rodman either. All the great teams had great role players, hell just go back to the 94-95 Rockets . . . yea they had Drexler and Olajuawon, but they had guys like Sam Cassell and Robert Horry, guys who if not on that team don't win those rings. The Spurs teams always had good role players in addition to Duncan/Parker. Hell the Heat had Zo and Posey doing damage off the bench, they don't win that series w/o those players. Yes the superstars can lead you to the playoffs, even get you into the finals, but you need role players to win that ring, and there isn't a team in history that won a championship w/o significant contributions/plays made by teammates.

Zo was along for the ride, a lebron type ona a much lower scale. he hopped on Shaq and wade's back after he stole money from the Nets and Raptors.

They win '96-'98 w/ or w/o Pippen. They may not have been as dominant but they would have found ways to win like they always did no matter who the surrounding cast was in the 90s.

You can't win by yourself no matter hown great you are but Michael made players around him so much better and while the cast changed on the 2 3peat teams they kept winning b/c of Michael.

Arsenal WV
05-20-2011, 06:44 PM
You're a Yankees, Tar Holes and Jets fan?

No wonder you suck.

That's my only input on this thread. Goodnight.

Joe from WY
05-20-2011, 07:47 PM
luuks lyk a brookn rkrrrd tuu...lol