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SR 7
11-24-2011, 08:57 PM
NOT! lmaoo where are the Matt Moore lovers? Where is Finatic, he thought we had found our franchise QB after 3 games against 3 ****ty teams.

He cost us the game literally wiht all those errand behind the WR throws. 1 TD, 1 First down, that alone could have sealed the game BUT STOP, WAIT A MINUTE, dun dun, hes a franchise QB!

**** SUCK FOR LUCK, not like he is accurate like Moore.

LMAO you fans are so easy to please, like i said, win 1 game, we talk franchise QB, win 2 games we talk playoffs.

RonBrown
11-24-2011, 08:58 PM
not sure if serious

CalDolFan10x14
11-24-2011, 08:58 PM
What's the point of this thread, seriously? Bash the team, the coaches, etc....NOT THE FANS!

Ilovemyfins4eva
11-24-2011, 09:01 PM
its so funny how the people who hate moore were prob so happy when the cowboys were driving down the field to win the game.

moore played far from a perfect game, but in the 2nd half was much better. we lost because of a lot of things, but one of the bigger issues was all these missed sacks which we had romo for turning into big gains and keeping drives alive.

that is what killed us. moore was not his best, but he played alright against a pretty tough team in their building. if u ( op) expect moore to throw for 350 yds and 3 tds a game, well ull be dissapointed. hes not perfect and today he was far from it, but if u think we lost souly due to moore, guess u missed the game.

SR 7
11-24-2011, 09:03 PM
point was to all the fans here who thought they HAD their franchise QB.

Some people, not mentioning names even called him the best QB since marino in miami. WTF?!?! lmao.

CalDolFan10x14
11-24-2011, 09:05 PM
point was to all the fans here who thought they HAD their franchise QB.

Some people, not mentioning names even called him the best QB since marino in miami. WTF?!?! lmao.

So calling out fans does what, necessarily? :idk:

It's not going to make Matt Moore better. It's not going to help us win more games. It's not going to give us a better draft pick. It's not going to make this team better.

TheWarriorFins
11-24-2011, 09:05 PM
we dont have a franchise QB but moore also doesnt suck like sanchez we should of won this game but overall i agree with you we need a franchise qb if we ever want to go to the playoffs (my vote goes to matt barkley) happy thanksgiving anyway

67Stang
11-24-2011, 09:06 PM
Moore is great, if you want to go .500 and keep picking #15 in the draft!

jacquesstrap
11-24-2011, 09:07 PM
No matter how good you are, there will be days when you are not your best. This happened to be one of them. I did not think Moore had a bad game, it could have been better, but he isn't the reason why the dolphins lost.

das8929
11-24-2011, 09:11 PM
Nobody thought Moore was our franchise QB, I sure as hell didn't. I think he's a significant upgrade from Henne though. We obviously need to draft a QB with our top 10 pick and let them battle it out in camp.

Ilovemyfins4eva
11-24-2011, 09:11 PM
point was to all the fans here who thought they HAD their franchise QB.

Some people, not mentioning names even called him the best QB since marino in miami. WTF?!?! lmao.first of all let me say this. i was on the moore bandwagon, i like what i had seen from him, and honestly not much has changed. he was far from great today, but he played much better in the 2nd half. remember, this is a guy who has what, 20 starts total in his career? people must have extremely high expectations from him right away. Today was not his best game, but he was not the main reason we lost.

as for being the franchise qb, as much as i like what hes done, never did i, or most people who like him for that matter, say he was our franchise qb.

we said, lets see what we have in him, he has been playing well so far. no one ever said lets sign him to a long term contract and name him our franchise qb now.

as for the qb situation going forward, i will say what i said all along. if we have a chance at luck or barkley,then ya, obviously we take them, but right now lets be honest, that chance is looking very dim. i also have stated that i am not a big fan of landry jones and would not take him. if we can get griffin i would not mind that after those top 2 guys. o and i gotta say this because i have seen it brought up before, no to matt flynn. im not sure if u r on the flynn bandwagon, but he ****ing blows, so i hope ur not one of those guys that thinks flynn is an upgrade over moore.

bottom line. moore was ok today, tough environment, i think he handled himself pretty well, especially in the 2nd half. he was far from perfect, but hes not going to be every week.


it is all but for certainty that moore will deff be back next year on this team as our main backup, we r not going to resign henne, and moore will battle it out in tc with the rookie for the starting job.

mega-fin-love
11-24-2011, 09:11 PM
You guys are silly. Matt moore has 7 touchdowns and 1 pick in the last four games. He didn't play perfect but he did play pretty well. Those snaps from pouncey were way off. We have not seen a qb play this well in a long time and you guys wanna cry....lame

Benzhiyi
11-24-2011, 09:13 PM
'Fans' who enjoy seeing us lose in order to prove a point on an Internet message board are truly pathetic.

Still believe in Moore. He's no Marino but he can be an asset to this franchise.

Willing our own players to fail is a total disgrace.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.384296,-0.195170

Kthurmus23
11-24-2011, 09:14 PM
Shame on Moore for giving us the lead in the 4th quarter and expecting our D to deliver us the win. Also shame on more for going into turtle mode with the lead and just handing it off at the end.

2413fanphins
11-24-2011, 09:15 PM
its so funny how the people who hate moore were prob so happy when the cowboys were driving down the field to win the game.

moore played far from a perfect game, but in the 2nd half was much better. we lost because of a lot of things, but one of the bigger issues was all these missed sacks which we had romo for turning into big gains and keeping drives alive.

that is what killed us. moore was not his best, but he played alright against a pretty tough team in their building. if u ( op) expect moore to throw for 350 yds and 3 tds a game, well ull be dissapointed. hes not perfect and today he was far from it, but if u think we lost souly due to moore, guess u missed the game.

1. this first sentence in bold probably doesn't happen or at the very least is made quite a bit harder if we get a first down and dallas has to burn timeouts. moore throws a horrible pass two yards behind davone bess that would have been a first down.

i think it's really convenient for you to point to the defense as a major problem in the second half. missed sacks... no doubt, romo makes a living on making guys miss and making plays happen when they shouldn't. moore was content to just take sacks. throw it out of the back of the endzone when he could have ran for a td, than at the end of the half with 11 seconds left, run out of the pocket and take it to four seconds instead of throwing it away and maybe having one more shot in the endzone instead of settling on a field goal.

i can hear it now... henne drives us down the field and we always settle for field goals. henne is a 20 to 20 yard line qb... with henne he misses the throws in the endzone that he should make... OH oops... matt moore was that guy today.

Today was a perfect chance for moore to showcase he's the man. But his drives stalled in the redzone and we kicked field goals. He evidently was so nervous we had to abandon the shotgun formation in the second half because he couldn't even field a snap. Unless of course your going to suddenly tell me our rookie center who has received nothing but praise to this point all of a sudden can't snap a football, or is snapping it differently. With a chance to seal the game, one throw to bess to prove matt moore had that killer instinct to put teams away everyone wanted to see, we saw a very poorly thrown pass behind davone bess....

we don't have our franchise qb... unless a franchise qb, is a .500 qb. we can beat on all the poor teams we want... that's just not going to cut it.

FinSince1971
11-24-2011, 09:16 PM
A.We played a top 10 team
B. We played with a grade B QB ( who played an overall average game )
C The better team made more big plays in big moments. I.e.Romo avoiding three sacks to throw completions and then the TD



Since 1971

2413fanphins
11-24-2011, 09:19 PM
first of all let me say this. i was on the moore bandwagon, i like what i had seen from him, and honestly not much has changed. he was far from great today, but he played much better in the 2nd half. remember, this is a guy who has what, 20 starts total in his career? people must have extremely high expectations from him right away. Today was not his best game, but he was not the main reason we lost.

as for being the franchise qb, as much as i like what hes done, never did i, or most people who like him for that matter, say he was our franchise qb.

we said, lets see what we have in him, he has been playing well so far. no one ever said lets sign him to a long term contract and name him our franchise qb now.

as for the qb situation going forward, i will say what i said all along. if we have a chance at luck or barkley,then ya, obviously we take them, but right now lets be honest, that chance is looking very dim. i also have stated that i am not a big fan of landry jones and would not take him. if we can get griffin i would not mind that after those top 2 guys. o and i gotta say this because i have seen it brought up before, no to matt flynn. im not sure if u r on the flynn bandwagon, but he ****ing blows, so i hope ur not one of those guys that thinks flynn is an upgrade over moore.

bottom line. moore was ok today, tough environment, i think he handled himself pretty well, especially in the 2nd half. he was far from perfect, but hes not going to be every week.


it is all but for certainty that moore will deff be back next year on this team as our main backup, we r not going to resign henne, and moore will battle it out in tc with the rookie for the starting job.


dude this is BS... find me a thread where you came on here after the san diego game, or the jets game, or the giants game and praised matt moore for his play and declared you wanted to see what he had. NOBODY was saying **** about matt moore until after his 3 td game against kansas city and you know it. your first paragraph reeks of the henne camp and all their excuses... not enough career starts, not enough practice with the starters.. others have claimed poor play calling and turtle mode in the last drive... HE HAD A CHANCE TO MAKE A THROW TO KEEP THE BALL AND HE FAILED.

i do completley agree with your middle paragraph that we need to take a qb. BUT I am going to get real tired of the moore supporters falling back on the same, defense didn't show up, OL didn't block, too many penalties, bad snaps, bad playcalling excuses that were unacceptable when henne was running the show.

mega-fin-love
11-24-2011, 09:19 PM
I'm am super excited to see what moore does for the rest of the season. Nobody including myself is saying he is the definate answer. If you will open your eyes you will see the it is possible though. Give this guy 1/10 of the chance you gave crappy henne. More has played way better than henn ever has. Let's see what happens

2413fanphins
11-24-2011, 09:20 PM
Shame on Moore for giving us the lead in the 4th quarter and expecting our D to deliver us the win. Also shame on more for going into turtle mode with the lead and just handing it off at the end.


do you remember the cleveland game. henne and the dolphins had the lead 13-10 in the 4th quarter... this is different how???

FinSince1971
11-24-2011, 09:21 PM
Oh and one more thing. They targeted Sean Smith with some success.

We're just not quite talented enough to win those close games against better teams. But there's still a few wins left, for what its worth

Since 1971

Phinatic8u
11-24-2011, 09:21 PM
:lol:

Phinatic8u
11-24-2011, 09:22 PM
Well to be fair he did have a couple badass throws, but when we needed him to kill the clock & score he failed.

FinSince1971
11-24-2011, 09:23 PM
You are totally right. Matt Moore starting doesn't bother me as much as shoring up the o line and getting a better GM

Since 1971

Kthurmus23
11-24-2011, 09:23 PM
do you remember the cleveland game. henne and the dolphins had the lead 13-10 in the 4th quarter... this is different how???

Exactly my point it is more on the D then the Offence. You wont get me hating on Henne or Moore in those situations. Both had the team ahead and the D just had to come up with one stop to win. Same with Denver, and the G men.

Ilovemyfins4eva
11-24-2011, 09:24 PM
do you remember the cleveland game. henne and the dolphins had the lead 13-10 in the 4th quarter... this is different how???r u really comparing the browns to the cowboys?

could u please admit that u hate moore and love henne. i admit that i like moore, just please admit that u do not like moore. its not that u just want to see more from him, u hate him. please admit it, i beg u.its ok if u do, but just say the words.

Phinatic8u
11-24-2011, 09:26 PM
He also had a badsaa stat line aswell, but he failed to put the game away.

hooshoops
11-24-2011, 09:27 PM
yeah he had issues catching snaps no doubt but he threw too many balls with guys open that were errant...he's just not all that accurate a qb...and on the td marshall did catch you got to lay that ball out in front and let him run under it...if you do thats an easy 6 and newman never gets a hand on marshall...i mean marshall had newman beat anytime he wanted to vertical drop those balls in out in front...

and the throw in the red zone on 3rd down to clay where he was wide open and if he catches and even turns his body its a 1st down...that throw was horrid...how the hell do you miss that throw under no pressure as a pro starting qb...give me a damn break...

3rd down late in the game bess comes across throw it out in front he throws it 2 steps behind him...marshall on a post earlier in the game he makes a good read but the throws too far out in front almost picked by newman but marshall got a finger tip on it...

taking sacks he can't take...not a bad stop gap but not the answer

beanh8er
11-24-2011, 09:28 PM
Those sacks he took killed us. He missed easy receivers at the most inopportune times (Clay on 3rd and 5). He has a great deep ball that much is certain, but when he is pressured he is like a deer in headlights.

2413fanphins
11-24-2011, 09:29 PM
r u really comparing the browns to the cowboys?

could u please admit that u hate moore and love henne. i admit that i like moore, just please admit that u do not like moore. its not that u just want to see more from him, u hate him. please admit it, i beg u.its ok if u do, but just say the words.

please tell me how it's different... I'm begging you. the scenario was our defense blew it. "it's not matt moores fault he gave us the lead, etc etc etc...."

now tell me how it's different. I bet I can go find some threads about how the cleveland loss was all hennes fault. even though he had the team in the lead in the 4th qtr.

I'm not going to tell you I hate matt moore because I don't. I've told you in other threads that I dont' hate him... can you not read or do you have trouble making sense of what I type when I write... " I don't hate matt moore"...

I'm pretty sure I said something to the extent of I want to see moore close a game out, or bring us back from behind to see if he's got what it takes. Today I got my first glimpse of that. Maybe in his next chance, the outcome will be different.

furthermore.. I have told you that I have moved on from chad henne. I only brought up the cleveland game because some folks on here who have an obvious love affair with the guy, after proclaiming him best since marino, after our three game streak... have already started in with the same excuses the henne folks used, and everyone said it was BS...

beanh8er
11-24-2011, 09:30 PM
yeah he had issues catching snaps no doubt but he threw too many balls with guys open that were errant...he's just not all that accurate a qb...and on the td marshall did catch you got to lay that ball out in front and let him run under it...if you do thats an easy 6 and newman never gets a hand on marshall...i mean marshall had newman beat anytime he wanted to vertical drop those balls in out in front...

and the throw in the red zone on 3rd down to clay where he was wide open and if he catches and even turns his body its a 1st down...that throw was horrid...how the hell do you miss that throw under no pressure as a pro starting qb...give me a damn break...

3rd down late in the game bess comes across throw it out in front he throws it 2 steps behind him...marshall on a post earlier in the game he makes a good read but the throws too far out in front almost picked by newman but marshall got a finger tip on it...

taking sacks he can't take...not a bad stop gap but not the answer
This throw killed me. That's a throw a lot of people could make, and he misses it. Horribly missed it. He threw way too far to the outside when he needed to throw it to the inside. It would've given Clay another couple yards and the potential for a TD if he could've made the CB miss.

Phinatic8u
11-24-2011, 09:30 PM
Well to be fair, he was getting pressured all game, Columvo & Carey ****ing sucked tonight, but he did throw some WTF balls, like hoops said, great stopgap, not the answer.

2413fanphins
11-24-2011, 09:31 PM
Well to be fair, he was getting pressured all game, Columvo & Carey ****ing sucked tonight, but he did throw some WTF balls, like hoops said, great stopgap, not the answer.


agreed.

Phinatic8u
11-24-2011, 09:32 PM
This throw killed me. That's a throw a lot of people could make, and he misses it. Horribly missed it. He threw way too far to the outside when he needed to throw it to the inside. It would've given Clay another couple yards and the potential for a TD if he could've made the CB miss.

He had a couple of those though.

The saddest thing is, if Henne had a game and/or last 4 games that Moore had, this fourm would be praising his ***. Moore's bad day is a great day for Henne, and it's not even close

2413fanphins
11-24-2011, 09:32 PM
This throw killed me. That's a throw a lot of people could make, and he misses it. Horribly missed it. He threw way too far to the outside when he needed to throw it to the inside. It would've given Clay another couple yards and the potential for a TD if he could've made the CB miss.

I agree with you but please get ready for some members to ask you specifically WHO could make that throw, and what NFL team they play for...

I made this comparison a few days ago, about my highschool quarterback being able to make a similar throw and a couple guys came unglued....

beanh8er
11-24-2011, 09:34 PM
He had a couple of those though.

The saddest thing is, if Henne had a game and/or last 4 games that Moore had, this fourm would be praising his ***. Moore's bad day is a great day for Henne, and it's not even close
That throw was by far the worst though. Some of the other throws the receiver was 10-15 yards down the field and he had to get it in front of the guy. This throw was a stationary target, and Clay was 10 yards away. I can forgive those other throws (to an extent) because they actually had some degree of difficulty; this throw was quite possibly the easiest throw he had all night.

phins_4_ever
11-24-2011, 09:35 PM
NOT! lmaoo where are the Matt Moore lovers? Where is Finatic, he thought we had found our franchise QB after 3 games against 3 ****ty teams.

He cost us the game literally wiht all those errand behind the WR throws. 1 TD, 1 First down, that alone could have sealed the game BUT STOP, WAIT A MINUTE, dun dun, hes a franchise QB!

**** SUCK FOR LUCK, not like he is accurate like Moore.

LMAO you fans are so easy to please, like i said, win 1 game, we talk franchise QB, win 2 games we talk playoffs.

Wow. Aren't you pathetic? You must have been elated that we lost. You probably rooted for the Cowboys on their last drive.

Honestly, there weren't many errand throws by Moore. The last one to Bess certainly hurt. But he did not make game changing mistakes (INTs, TOs etc). He was quite on fire in the second half and making throws which we as Dolfans haven't seen that often in the past.

Losing 20-19 in Dallas on T-Day is not Armageddon. The team fought and gave us all an exciting afternoon.
Fans like you who are actually happy about a Dolphins loss is Armageddon. A team is worth nothing with a fan base who roots against their 'favorite' team because of ..... [explain to me why]

If Moore continues to play the way he did in the last 4 games you may want to switch allegiance (I'll suggest that to you anyways) because Moore is here to stay.

Now on to another 3 game winning streak.

Phinatic8u
11-24-2011, 09:35 PM
That throw was by far the worst though. Some of the other throws the receiver was 10-15 yards down the field and he had to get it in front of the guy. This throw was a stationary target, and Clay was 10 yards away. I can forgive those other throws (to an extent) because they actually had some degree of difficulty; this throw was quite possibly the easiest throw he had all night.

The one to bess on our last drive was worse, that 1st down would've sealed the win.

beanh8er
11-24-2011, 09:36 PM
I agree with you but please get ready for some members to ask you specifically WHO could make that throw, and what NFL team they play for...

I made this comparison a few days ago, about my highschool quarterback being able to make a similar throw and a couple guys came unglued....
I remember that :lol:. I could make that throw. I will put that out there. I may not be able to make some of the other throws (although I think I can sling the rock pretty well), but that was just inexcusable, and no professional QB should ever miss that throw.

beanh8er
11-24-2011, 09:38 PM
The one to bess on our last drive was worse, that 1st down would've sealed the win.Worse timing? Yes. Worse of a miss? No. The one to Bess required some skill. He had to lead the receiver, and with some zip on the ball. The one to Clay was shorter than a bubble screen pass, and he missed it, and (I can't stress this enough) Clay was stationary.

SuperBowlDream
11-24-2011, 09:38 PM
Well to be fair, he was getting pressured all game, Columvo & Carey ****ing sucked tonight, but he did throw some WTF balls, like hoops said, great stopgap, not the answer.

Dont forget Moore's "Blind Side" protector Mr Jake Long who was beat on almost every play and just looked slow & man-handled.
Moore played a good game...well enough to win at his position. We lost in the coaching area (should have gone for it on 4th and should have gone for 2) and the defense let down at the end.

rev kev
11-24-2011, 09:38 PM
5 times in the red zone - 1 TD some pure gifts by the D - 5 freakin times 1 TD - and some of you guys bust Henne's balls

Johnny O
11-24-2011, 09:41 PM
Played poorly no doubt but "lmao" at fans after a tough loss is classless.

hooshoops
11-24-2011, 09:42 PM
The one to bess on our last drive was worse, that 1st down would've sealed the win.

nah...had we converted we would have run bush up the middle 2 times and then threw short of the sticks or ran it a 3rd time before punting...we have no idea how to play aggressive under sparano...guaranteed we would have gone the ballless play not to loose than play to win route...guaranteed

2413fanphins
11-24-2011, 09:43 PM
5 times in the red zone - 1 TD some pure gifts by the D - 5 freakin times 1 TD - and some of you guys bust Henne's balls


my point exactly... be nice to see all the moore lovers who busted on henne for poor redzone performance come on here and say " hey, my guy moore stepped on his dick in the redzone most of the game today"... instead we get, the defense blew it, jake long is't worth the #1 overall pick, WR's drop too many balls, the play calling was horrible in the 4th quarter, the center can't snap, and the OL can't block....

hooshoops
11-24-2011, 09:44 PM
would you guys get off the going for 2 thing...you don't go for 2 when going for the extra point still leaves you the opportunity of a fg or a td should the opposition score either still wins it for ya...thats just dumb

2413fanphins
11-24-2011, 09:45 PM
nah...had we converted we would have run bush up the middle 2 times and then threw short of the sticks or ran it a 3rd time before punting...we have no idea how to play aggressive under sparano...guaranteed we would have gone the ballless play not to loose than play to win route...guaranteed

this leads me to my thoughts on your next regime... I've said it a million times over the past five years in regards to the patriots... every team gets a lead on them, and punts it back to brady with time left on the clock and loses. This team needs a coach who will ****ing be aggressive and go for the jugular... it needs to come as second nature. not just against the pats, but against everyone... this team just isn't good enough to sit on any lead less than 10 points in my opinion.

Phinatic8u
11-24-2011, 09:46 PM
my point exactly... be nice to see all the moore lovers who busted on henne for poor redzone performance come on here and say " hey, my guy moore stepped on his dick in the redzone most of the game today"... instead we get, the defense blew it, jake long is't worth the #1 overall pick, WR's drop too many balls, the play calling was horrible in the 4th quarter, the center can't snap, and the OL can't block....

The past 4 games, Moore has been more succsesful than Henne in redzone. Ever. 11 TDs on 14 trips is amazingly good.

Phinatic8u
11-24-2011, 09:47 PM
But like I said earlier, if Henne had a stretch of games or even a game that Moore just had, he would be being praised as the next Marino, especially with this board.

beanh8er
11-24-2011, 09:50 PM
But like I said earlier, if Henne had a stretch of games or even a game that Moore just had, he would be being praised as the next Marino, especially with this board.
We were doing that after his first start. Oh how long ago that game feels like.

hooshoops
11-24-2011, 09:51 PM
The past 4 games, Moore has been more succsesful than Henne in redzone. Ever. 11 TDs on 14 trips is amazingly good.

imo a lot of that though has been scheme driven success...yeah moore has made the throws but a lot of our success of late has been some damn intuitive play design...other than the run reggie bush up the middle in the tight red zone repeatedly which baffles the mind but whatev

Phinatic8u
11-24-2011, 09:51 PM
We were doing that after his first start. Oh how long ago that game feels like.

Moore's bad day, is a great day for Henne

Phinatic8u
11-24-2011, 09:53 PM
imo a lot of that though has been scheme driven success...yeah moore has made the throws but a lot of our success of late has been some damn intuitive play design...other than the run reggie bush up the middle in the tight red zone repeatedly which baffles the mind but whatev

To me IMO that shows that the staff trusts Moore a hell of alot more than they did Henne.

Henne never was succseful in the redzone, now all a sudden Moore comes in and we strat scoring alot more TDs than FGs, shows alot about how much better Moore is than Henne

FinHopeful
11-24-2011, 09:53 PM
point was to all the fans here who thought they HAD their franchise QB.

Some people, not mentioning names even called him the best QB since marino in miami. WTF?!?! lmao.

He has not proven anything, but this is his fourth game with a QB rating of 99 or more. He did not play badly, but he did not play well enough to win. This is one of those rare occasions were the team with a negative QB rating differential actually wins. Moore missed two big throws near the end of the game. His accuracy problems prevented a potential touchdown to Hartline and the game winning third down to Bess. I have no problems with him as the starting QB next year. Do not confuse this endorsement as a belief that he is the franchise QB. It just means he should be a winning QB for us next year.

GRYPHONK
11-24-2011, 10:03 PM
I knew there would be these knee-jerk reactions. The sad thing is Moore played a solid game. It was a total team loss.

I just knew though some of you would come in here after 1 game and all of a sudden denounce him when he actually played a decent game.

He didn't play good bad enough to lose. But the fact remains, when he needed to make a clutch throw on that last drive he missed it.

It's a shame, because a solid performance has some believing this is proof that he stinks.

hooshoops
11-24-2011, 10:05 PM
i thought moore was ok...nothing special...i mean you can't miss some of those throws at this level...you can't...they're the difference between winning and losing...and maybe i'm the only one but i've seen evidence of him missing easy throws each of the last 3 games...i don't care what the qb rating or whatever that garbage was you get an easy completion and can move the chains you need to stick it...

and you can't take some of those sacks either...i know he's mobile and all but when the floodgates open and you have time you need to throw the ball into the endzone stands

GRYPHONK
11-24-2011, 10:11 PM
i thought moore was ok...nothing special...i mean you can't miss some of those throws at this level...you can't...they're the difference between winning and losing...and maybe i'm the only one but i've seen evidence of him missing easy throws each of the last 3 games...i don't care what the qb rating or whatever that garbage was you get an easy completion and can move the chains you need to stick it...

and you can't take some of those sacks either...i know he's mobile and all but when the floodgates open and you have time you need to throw the ball into the endzone stands

I can agree with that.

But every QB has games like that. The question is whether this is the norm or not. We can't have a QB missing plays like that that would seal the game. BUt at the same time, a QB will miss those throws from time to time. They all do. They just don't do it on a weekly basis.

So I can live with this 1 game in an overall impressive 4 game span, because he did lead what should have been the game winning scoring drive. He just couldn't kill the clock. So to me, his play didn't cost us the game. It's just a shame he had to be in that position. Regardless, he didn't make the throw at the most important time in the game.

DolfanISS
11-24-2011, 10:12 PM
This thread, and whole message forum at times, is stupid. Why anyone would thump their chests for being right about what they post on a silly fan message board is beyond me. Most reasonable fans think Matt Moore is better than Chad Henne, anyone who does not think that is an idiot. Most fans like what they've seen from Moore to the point where they'd like to see him as the backup next year or maybe the guy who starts until the GUY WE DRAFT is ready. For some reason to other fans those guys have already bought tickets to Matt Moore's hall of fame induction. The extremes are ridiculous. I'm willing to bet 95% of this site wold love to see Andrew Luck in a fins uniform next season but getting excited about 0 - 16 at 0 - 7 is dumb, especially if you've seen the Colts play this year. Us getting the #1 overall pick was a pipe dream and I'm shocked that all the extremely smart posters here really thought that was a realistic possiblity, that is laughable.

Now call me delusional, and I'm sure most will, but I saw 2 playoff teams battling it out there today and we just came up short. The gift TD (Moore fumble) and the failure to capitalize on the early INT's were the killers. Those 2 INT's should have been back breakers. We blew those oppurtunities big time. Back to what I said, did anyone watch the early game? That looked a lot more like a playoff team and a ****ty team facing off then our game did. It's a shame this team got off to such a slow start this year and obviously many people will have to pay for that. I just love how the Moore haters were in hibernation for 3 weeks and now they have pounced. Being right is soooo exhilerating.

Bonedoc7777
11-24-2011, 10:13 PM
tony did not let moore play when it was time to kill

hooshoops
11-24-2011, 10:16 PM
I can agree with that.

But every QB has games like that. The question is whether this is the norm or not. We can't have a QB missing plays like that that would seal the game. BUt at the same time, a QB will miss those throws from time to time. They all do. They just don't do it on a weekly basis.

So I can live with this 1 game in an overall impressive 4 game span, because he did lead what should have been the game winning scoring drive. He just couldn't kill the clock. So to me, his play didn't cost us the game. It's just a shame he had to be in that position. Regardless, he didn't make the throw at the most important time in the game.

i think the ball placement and accuracy issues with moore is just a part of the package...as in over the long haul they'll be here to stay...too much evidence already for me to think anything different

that said barring a luck or barkley i would go into 2012 with him as my starter...no doubt

2413fanphins
11-24-2011, 11:00 PM
To me IMO that shows that the staff trusts Moore a hell of alot more than they did Henne.

Henne never was succseful in the redzone, now all a sudden Moore comes in and we strat scoring alot more TDs than FGs, shows alot about how much better Moore is than Henne


or is shows a lot about how our defense can shut down offenses that are sliding and struggling or coming off big monday night wins, and our offense can put up points on average or below average teams. we faced a team today that was above average, and we couldn't score touchdowns. thats really the bottom line.

DolfanISS
11-24-2011, 11:05 PM
or is shows a lot about how our defense can shut down offenses that are sliding and struggling or coming off big monday night wins, and our offense can put up points on average or below average teams. we faced a team today that was above average, and we couldn't score touchdowns. thats really the bottom line.

It was a tough defensive game vs a likely playoff team who also had a tough time scoring Td's vs us. At least Moore scored Td's vs lesser teams, Henne couldn't even do that much. I'm willing to concede Moore probably isn't our franchise qb but I'm 100% sure hes better than Henne.

FinHopeful
11-24-2011, 11:05 PM
Moore is great, if you want to go .500 and keep picking #15 in the draft!

I have a different opinion.

FinHopeful
11-24-2011, 11:12 PM
Exactly my point it is more on the D then the Offence. You wont get me hating on Henne or Moore in those situations. Both had the team ahead and the D just had to come up with one stop to win. Same with Denver, and the G men.

We do not have a championship defense, but this loss is not their fault. The offense needed to play better to win this game.

fin-atic
11-24-2011, 11:13 PM
NOT! lmaoo where are the Matt Moore lovers? Where is Finatic, he thought we had found our franchise QB after 3 games against 3 ****ty teams.

He cost us the game literally wiht all those errand behind the WR throws. 1 TD, 1 First down, that alone could have sealed the game BUT STOP, WAIT A MINUTE, dun dun, hes a franchise QB!

**** SUCK FOR LUCK, not like he is accurate like Moore.

LMAO you fans are so easy to please, like i said, win 1 game, we talk franchise QB, win 2 games we talk playoffs.

Hey buddy I am right here.

First of all I never said he was our franchise QB. I said if he kept playing the way he had he should be considered. So if you want to throw down smack come with the truth.

Secondly the offense gave the defense the lead. Twice all the defense had to do was make a stop and we win. I am NOT saying Moore played great. He missed some throws and the dropped snaps are inexcusable. But still he made some great throws also. The TD to Marshall was dropped in perfectly.
Look in the end we played tough. We got beat by Romo who made ridiculous play after ridiculous play. But I put this on the defense just as much. Will Allen missed a sack. Sean Smith got beat several times. Missed tackles.
So take your hate elsewhere. I'm not buying it here. Suck for Luck is dead. Get over it and move on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FinHopeful
11-24-2011, 11:18 PM
I knew there would be these knee-jerk reactions. The sad thing is Moore played a solid game. It was a total team loss.

I just knew though some of you would come in here after 1 game and all of a sudden denounce him when he actually played a decent game.

He didn't play good bad enough to lose. But the fact remains, when he needed to make a clutch throw on that last drive he missed it.

It's a shame, because a solid performance has some believing this is proof that he stinks.

I hoped he would play better, but he played better than an average NFL QB.

nyashfan
11-24-2011, 11:44 PM
Why does it feel, because Moore could've made a few more plays today, that the common opinion is that he has already reached his ceiling? Chad Henne had 30 starts. Where would Moore be after 30 starts? His need to throw the ball away or run when the opportunity is there is certainly coachable. He certainly doesn't take the bait and throw games away. Romo made some amazing plays today, but doesn't any one remember the multiple boneheaded plays he made that cost Dallas wins against the Jets and Lions?

fin-atic
11-24-2011, 11:53 PM
Why does it feel, because Moore could've made a few more plays today, that the common opinion is that he has already reached his ceiling? Chad Henne had 30 starts. Where would Moore be after 30 starts? His need to throw the ball away or run when the opportunity is there is certainly coachable. He certainly doesn't take the bait and throw games away. Romo made some amazing plays today, but doesn't any one remember the multiple boneheaded plays he made that cost Dallas wins against the Jets and Lions?

Because all the Luck Suckers are still pouting we are not winless. They would rather be the embarrassment of the league. Now they are knee jerk reacting because we barely lost one game to a team that will be a division winner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 12:44 AM
Because all the Luck Suckers are still pouting we are not winless. They would rather be the embarrassment of the league. Now they are knee jerk reacting because we barely lost one game to a team that will be a division winner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i wanna say i recall you being a suck for lucker til the first win...and then you goin belly up and in a different direction...just sayin

dolpns13
11-25-2011, 12:55 AM
point was to all the fans here who thought they HAD their franchise QB.

Some people, not mentioning names even called him the best QB since marino in miami. WTF?!?! lmao.

Pretty myopic post on your part SR.. Are you saying in all the years of being a Miami fan, you were never, ever, not once, wrong about a player you thought could be good and then turned out to be a bust? Also I am not a proponent of Moore being our franchise QB, but the thread is pretty hypocritical by you calling out those fans. This thread should be sent to the depths.

Moore is also much better than Henne, so for those that want success, be happy Henne isnt our starting QB any longer, because Moore gives the team a better chance to win than Henne ever did.

realdolphin
11-25-2011, 02:02 AM
Moore is better than henne and sanchez. he must stay with this team for a long time. back up or starter i dont know but i want him around here.

J. David Wannyheimer
11-25-2011, 02:08 AM
Matt Moore is better than Chad Henne, but he still has deficiencies as a QB. As you saw tonight, the guy just can't feel pressure at all. You get a decent pass rush on him, the ball's going to be on the ground. Sometimes he misses open guys. Sometimes he doesn't see open guys. Just because we've been served dog food for twelve years doesn't mean that we should suddenly look at a Hungry Man Salisbury Steak dinner and pretend it's a filet mignon from a five star restaurant.

Matt Moore's the best QB on the roster and better than anyone who is going to be available in free agency (Jason Campbell, Chad Henne). But if you think this team shouldn't draft a QB? Yowza.

fin-atic
11-25-2011, 03:38 AM
i wanna say i recall you being a suck for lucker til the first win...and then you goin belly up and in a different direction...just sayin

Once again inaccurate. I NEVER advocated losing on purpose for Luck. I was on the bandwagon to draft him if we ended up that way. And at that point Henne was playing and I was very vocal we needed a different QB. But Moore had never played at that point. My two points are and have been:

1. This team needs several more pieces. If Matt Moore does not play better than he did today, then I say we get the best QB possible in the draft.
2. If he continues to play as well the remainder of the way as he has prior to today, I think he is a solid starter you can win with. You still draft a QB though for the future and if Moore backslides.
3. This team does not have to lose to get one of the coveted QBs. Its called TRADE. It happens all the time. Jets did it for Sanchez, Giants did it for Eli. If this team wants one of those QBs they will go get them.
4. I do not think you THROW games or route for the team to lose to get ONE player. The other players on this team have to be measured and judged. You can not do that unless you play them hard and to win. Unless you think Luck is also going to block, tackle, catch the ball and run the ball.

.....I'm just sayin

newlife2788
11-25-2011, 03:59 AM
I like Moore I'm not gonna say he's our future until week 17 is over. But I can say this we look way better with him as our QB!

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 04:13 AM
The insanity of this board. Wow. We use to have a QB's that couldn't string together one decent game. Moore has now strung together 4 straight decent games. Had a Rating of 99.5 on the road against the hot team in the league. Wow. I'm just completely dumbfounded..

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 04:18 AM
Did Moore have one of the greatest months for a QB in franchise history???

67Stang
11-25-2011, 05:33 AM
r u really comparing the browns to the cowboys?

could u please admit that u hate moore and love henne. i admit that i like moore, just please admit that u do not like moore. its not that u just want to see more from him, u hate him. please admit it, i beg u.its ok if u do, but just say the words.
Ya, before you go spouting nonsense, you might want to look at who has the best Pass D in the league and 5th best D overall.....and it ain't the Cowboys or any other team Moore has played.

67Stang
11-25-2011, 05:36 AM
The insanity of this board. Wow. We use to have a QB's that couldn't string together one decent game. Moore has now strung together 4 straight decent games. Had a Rating of 99.5 on the road against the hot team in the league. Wow. I'm just completely dumbfounded..
So 0-4 in the Redzone, inability to take advantage of turnovers and fumbling inside your own 10 to give the other team a TD with a minute to go in the half is decent? Ya, ok.

Benzhiyi
11-25-2011, 06:02 AM
The insanity of this board. Wow. We use to have a QB's that couldn't string together one decent game. Moore has now strung together 4 straight decent games. Had a Rating of 99.5 on the road against the hot team in the league. Wow. I'm just completely dumbfounded..

Depressing isn't it?


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.384373,-0.195103

67Stang
11-25-2011, 06:31 AM
We played a team that didn't suck today, even though they are far from elite and lost. The biggest problem and reason we lost was because of the QB..... one making a huge mistake and 2 inability to convert in the redzone.

67Stang
11-25-2011, 06:43 AM
Funny all the people that are Moore fans keep bringing up Henne when it has nothing to do with Henne at all. That is the only thing they have to fall back on. Ironic thing is the same thing they bash Henne for (inability to convert in the redzone, batted balls, mistakes, and inability to close a game) they are making excuses for Moore today. Makes me laugh. Then they try to blame the D, LMAO. Someone brings up the Browns game and Mr. Moore's #1 supporter asks if he is really comparing the Cowboys and the Browns, when it is the Browns who have the best pass D in the league and the 5th best over all D.

Moore will impress me, when he can beat a team that is even mediocre and has a half way decent defense.

Benzhiyi
11-25-2011, 08:40 AM
Moore will impress me, when he can beat a team that is even mediocre and has a half way decent defense.

So if the ST unit blocks Bailey's kick last night, it completely changes your (and other critics') opinion of Moore's QB abilities because in that scenario 'he' beat the Cowboys?

There's some real nutty logic on these forums sometimes.

He did enough to win us the game last night. Yes he made mistakes, but he also gave us a very good shot on the road against a side who are play-offs bound.

It amazes me that so many 'fans' are desperate to see someone in a Phins uni fail. If we draft, say, Barkley and he goes 0-4 in his first few games will we be equally quick to chuck him on the bonfire too?

67Stang
11-25-2011, 08:57 AM
So if the ST unit blocks Bailey's kick last night, it completely changes your (and other critics') opinion of Moore's QB abilities because in that scenario 'he' beat the Cowboys?

There's some real nutty logic on these forums sometimes.

He did enough to win us the game last night. Yes he made mistakes, but he also gave us a very good shot on the road against a side who are play-offs bound.

It amazes me that so many 'fans' are desperate to see someone in a Phins uni fail. If we draft, say, Barkley and he goes 0-4 in his first few games will we be equally quick to chuck him on the bonfire too?
So you ask a question and then you insinuate how people are going to answer. LMAO. No he didn't do enough to win, that much is pretty obvious to most. He didn't take advantage of early turnovers and great field posistion, then he turns the ball over inside our 10 with a minute to go. We should have been up between 17-21 points at the half and had them by the balls, instead we were losing because of Moore. We were 0-4 in the redzone, that is not playing well enough to win. Then he couldn't make the plays to close the game and run the clock. Matt Moore in no way, shape, or form played well enough to win this game. The D gave him multiple opportunities to put this game away, and he payed them back by giving Dallas the ball with plenty of time needing only a field goal to win. Pretty simple and straight forward.

Phinatic8u
11-25-2011, 09:07 AM
So 0-4 in the Redzone, inability to take advantage of turnovers and fumbling inside your own 10 to give the other team a TD with a minute to go in the half is decent? Ya, ok.

This is the first time I've ever seen you put up redzone stats up for a qb, yet you were the biggest Henne supporter on this site. Atleast stay consistent

:lol:

Vaark
11-25-2011, 09:08 AM
Because all the Luck Suckers are still pouting we are not winless. They would rather be the embarrassment of the league. Now they are knee jerk reacting because we barely lost one game to a team that will be a division winner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually all the Luck slurping is the result of getting drunk off the media Koolaid... as he beat the equivalent of cupcake teams having 2nd and 3rd tier h.s. recruits with a combined sub .400 winning record. If anything if we're talking about symbolic homosexual acts to get a QB, it should have been "Blow for Barkley" as he beat a better quality of opponents including Oregon and ND with a combined approximate .450 winning record. Hell, Luck's own dad, who's partial managed to concede that they're about equal.

I'm wondering if Baltimore is ready to look at Tyrod Taylor after Flacco even in a win, more or less crapped the bed again. Surely the other Harbaugh has to be ready to take a look at Colin Kaepernick since Smith with a lot more starts than Moore's 20 really crapped the bed. Matt Stafford? Hope Drew Stanton's warming up in the bull pen.

67Stang
11-25-2011, 09:42 AM
This is the first time I've ever seen you put up redzone stats up for a qb, yet you were the biggest Henne supporter on this site. Atleast stay consistent

:lol:
Yet another guy who brings up Henne, when Henne is not a part of this equation....but thanks for making my point yet again that this is all you have to fall back on.

DolfanISS
11-25-2011, 10:02 AM
We played a team that didn't suck today, even though they are far from elite and lost. The biggest problem and reason we lost was because of the QB..... one making a huge mistake and 2 inability to convert in the redzone.

The Patriots lost in week 3 to Buffalo becuase their QB threw 4 picks.
The 2004 Patriots were 10-2 and they lost to a 2-10 Miami team because their QB threw 4 picks.
The 2009 Colts lost the Super Bowl becuase their QB threw an untimely INT.

I agree with you 100% when you say you'd like to see Moore beat a playoff team before you can believe in him fully. But even the best of the best have games where the loss is on them. The gift TD and not jumping out to an early lead following the INT's were back breakers today I'm with you there. Moore did make plays and got us the lead despite of his mistakes. At the end of the day we lost to a playoff team in their house by 1 point and finheaven wants to change everything. The first 7 games were a disaster, I blame the coaching staff for not having the team ready and not starting Moore from week one because even with his deficiencies only an idiot wouldn't be able to see he's the best QB we have on our roster.

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 10:09 AM
Actually all the Luck slurping is the result of getting drunk off the media Koolaid... as he beat the equivalent of cupcake teams having 2nd and 3rd tier h.s. recruits with a combined sub .400 winning record. If anything if we're talking about symbolic homosexual acts to get a QB, it should have been "Blow for Barkley" as he beat a better quality of opponents including Oregon and ND with a combined approximate .450 winning record. Hell, Luck's own dad, who's partial managed to concede that they're about equal.

I'm wondering if Baltimore is ready to look at Tyrod Taylor after Flacco even in a win, more or less crapped the bed again. Surely the other Harbaugh has to be ready to take a look at Colin Kaepernick since Smith with a lot more starts than Moore's 20 really crapped the bed. Matt Stafford? Hope Drew Stanton's warming up in the bull pen.



flacco did not crap the bed yesterday...that san fran d is legit and he made some plays...enough to win the game...he's got a little more check down in him than i like in my qb but ray rice destroys people underneath in the short dump off passing game...flacco was solid yesterday...threw a seed to pitta in the red zone that was a beautiful td

and had kaepernick gotten run under that awful pass pro yesterday given the way he holds the ball out in traffic that game would have been a blow out...kaep would have fumbled the rock at least 3 times given that pressure...kaep blows

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 10:14 AM
Once again inaccurate. I NEVER advocated losing on purpose for Luck. I was on the bandwagon to draft him if we ended up that way. And at that point Henne was playing and I was very vocal we needed a different QB. But Moore had never played at that point. My two points are and have been:

1. This team needs several more pieces. If Matt Moore does not play better than he did today, then I say we get the best QB possible in the draft.
2. If he continues to play as well the remainder of the way as he has prior to today, I think he is a solid starter you can win with. You still draft a QB though for the future and if Moore backslides.
3. This team does not have to lose to get one of the coveted QBs. Its called TRADE. It happens all the time. Jets did it for Sanchez, Giants did it for Eli. If this team wants one of those QBs they will go get them.
4. I do not think you THROW games or route for the team to lose to get ONE player. The other players on this team have to be measured and judged. You can not do that unless you play them hard and to win. Unless you think Luck is also going to block, tackle, catch the ball and run the ball.

.....I'm just sayin

well then my apologies...

but i think there's a point here that many of you guys are missing...you make it sound like to trade up and get our qb is gonna be so damn easy...well i got news for you guys to trade up for a barkley if he comes out there is gonna be competition...and plenty of it...so you'll be in a bidding war...the teams that can't get a sniff on luck are gonna immediately turn their attention to barkley and what it takes to getting up to where they can land him...the higher we pick in this draft the better our chances to put together a package that a team in trade will accept and the less resources we have to part with to get there...

i'm just sayin...

Vaark
11-25-2011, 10:15 AM
flacco did not crap the bed yesterday...that san fran d is legit and he made some plays...enough to win the game...he's got a little more check down in him than i like in my qb but ray rice destroys people underneath in the short dump off passing game...flacco was solid yesterday...threw a seed to pitta in the red zone that was a beautiful td

and had kaepernick gotten run under that awful pass pro yesterday given the way he holds the ball out in traffic that game would have been a blow out...kaep would have fumbed the rock at least 3 times given that pressure...kaep blows

Well Moore did leave points on the table, as did Romo, but if factoring in quality of opponent, specifically a team that's peaking and is more than a cut above average, he came back to put his team in a position to win if our vaunted D would have held. Also, he's not the one who missed that FG. No debating that.

2413fanphins
11-25-2011, 10:17 AM
Why does it feel, because Moore could've made a few more plays today, that the common opinion is that he has already reached his ceiling? Chad Henne had 30 starts. Where would Moore be after 30 starts? His need to throw the ball away or run when the opportunity is there is certainly coachable. He certainly doesn't take the bait and throw games away. Romo made some amazing plays today, but doesn't any one remember the multiple boneheaded plays he made that cost Dallas wins against the Jets and Lions?

I'm not sure if you know this or not, but matt moore played in his 30th game yesterday, and while I'm not sure he started all of them, I think he has. Unless of course you are going to tell me he needs 30 starts as a dolphin for us to see what he can do, to which I would ask... why?

2413fanphins
11-25-2011, 10:19 AM
Well Moore did leave points on the table, as did Romo, but if factoring in quality of opponent, specifically a team that's peaking and is more than a cut above average, he came back to put his team in a position to win if our vaunted D would have held. Also, he's not the one who missed that FG. No debating that.

I will get behind that logic, if you are willing to agree we than have to take into consideration that the bills were a team that definately was NOT peaking, losing 3 or 4 straight or whatever it was.

We lost the game in the first half in my opinion. We were +2 on the turnover battle, had multiple possessions with excellent field position, and we absolutely dominated the time of possession. that game should have been put away in the first half. no question.

DolfanISS
11-25-2011, 10:21 AM
I'm not sure if you know this or not, but matt moore played in his 30th game yesterday, and while I'm not sure he started all of them, I think he has. Unless of course you are going to tell me he needs 30 starts as a dolphin for us to see what he can do, to which I would ask... why?

He's 10-10 as a stater, 10+10!=30. It's easy to see in those 20 games he'll make a better backup than Henne. At least we are all set at qb2.

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 10:25 AM
Well Moore did leave points on the table, as did Romo, but if factoring in quality of opponent, specifically a team that's peaking and is more than a cut above average, he came back to put his team in a position to win if our vaunted D would have held. Also, he's not the one who missed that FG. No debating that.

i'm lost on your point here...i was responding to what you said regarding flacco and kaep...not the dallas miami game

Vaark
11-25-2011, 10:29 AM
He's 10-10 as a stater, 10+10!=30. It's easy to see in those 20 games he'll make a better backup than Henne. At least we are all set at qb2.

He's 10-10 as a starter including coming in in 09 when the Panthers were 4-7 to salvage a .500 season. He was 1-4 in 2010 for a team that finished 2-14.. just about the same record as the great Cam Newton's 2-8 for an upgraded team and coach who wasn't a lame duck. He was pressed into service with little preseason or 1st team reps for a winless team in 2011.

Bottom Line: he's 10-10 for a team that went 10-32 in 2 years and another that was 0-4 when he was pressed into service . So let's just put some of that into perspective here, okay?

67Stang
11-25-2011, 10:30 AM
The Patriots lost in week 3 to Buffalo becuase their QB threw 4 picks.
The 2004 Patriots were 10-2 and they lost to a 2-10 Miami team because their QB threw 4 picks.
The 2009 Colts lost the Super Bowl becuase their QB threw an untimely INT.

I agree with you 100% when you say you'd like to see Moore beat a playoff team before you can believe in him fully. But even the best of the best have games where the loss is on them. The gift TD and not jumping out to an early lead following the INT's were back breakers today I'm with you there. Moore did make plays and got us the lead despite of his mistakes. At the end of the day we lost to a playoff team in their house by 1 point and finheaven wants to change everything. The first 7 games were a disaster, I blame the coaching staff for not having the team ready and not starting Moore from week one because even with his deficiencies only an idiot wouldn't be able to see he's the best QB we have on our roster.

Brady has won superbowls and beat good teams, Matt Moore has not. You are right, even the best have bad days. I am looking for Moore to have 1 good one against a good team. That has yet to happen. Also, since Henne was brought in it is easy to say that Moore is better when he is playing in an offense that is fully installed, on a team (especially on D) that is playing much better. However, when Moore has an 0-4 redzone TD day, gets balls batted down, fumbles inside the 10 (now 9 fumbles, with 3 lost in 8 games), and can't deliver at the end to put the game away these guys have all of the excuses in the world. Also look at who Henne played, 2 teams leading their division, and a Browns team that is #1 in pass D, and the #5 over all D. Moore is not better, it is actually a coin flip in my eys and they are both 2nd stringers.

Vaark
11-25-2011, 10:34 AM
Brady has won superbowls and beat good teams, Matt Moore has not. You are right, even the best have bad days. I am looking for Moore to have 1 good one against a good team. That has yet to happen. Also, since Henne was brought in it is easy to say that Moore is better when he is playing in an offense that is fully installed, on a team (especially on D) that is playing much better. However, when Moore has an 0-4 redzone TD day, gets balls batted down, fumbles inside the 10 (now 9 fumbles, with 3 lost in 8 games), and can't deliver at the end to put the game away these guys have all of the excuses in the world. Also look at who Henne played, 2 teams leading their division, and a Browns team that is #1 in pass D, and the #5 over all D. Moore is not better, it is actually a coin flip in my eys and they are both 2nd stringers.

Hey bro, I know this isn't about Henne, but you'd come across as more objective with no not-so-hidden agenda if you had started even one such similar thread over the last 2 seasons dogging Chad. Sorry but it is what it is, whether you realize your biases or not.

67Stang
11-25-2011, 10:40 AM
Hey bro, I know this isn't about Henne, but you'd come across as more objective with no not-so-hidden agenda if you had started even one such similar thread over the last 2 seasons dogging Chad. Sorry but it is what it is, whether you realize your biases or not.
Vaark, I never have a thread in the last 2 years praising Henne either....We all know the challenges the offense faced as a whole with Henning as the OC. All of my Henne posts were less support and more I want to see what he can do in a real offense. Also, how can I have a hidden agenda when I am saying neither Henne or Moore are starters? Just curious? Also, my latest Henne posts are not a support of Henne, they are facts backing up MHO that Matt Moore is simply not better, not a praise of Henne. Once again, neither are starters IMO. I think today's game against a solid but far from elite Cowboys team further demonstrates that.

2413fanphins
11-25-2011, 10:41 AM
He's 10-10 as a starter including coming in in 09 when the Panthers were 4-7 to salvage a .500 season. He was 1-4 in 2010 for a team that finished 2-14.. just about the same record as the great Cam Newton's 2-8 for an upgraded team and coach who wasn't a lame duck. He was pressed into service with little preseason or 1st team reps for a winless team in 2011.

Bottom Line: he's 10-10 for a team that went 10-32 in 2 years and another that was 0-4 when he was pressed into service . So let's just put some of that into perspective here, okay?

here it sounds like sarcasm regarding cam newton, but in another thread you defend last years qb prospects in the draft with andy dalton, and the same cam newton you just seemingly dissed.

Vaark
11-25-2011, 10:45 AM
here it sounds like sarcasm regarding cam newton, but in another thread you defend last years qb prospects in the draft with andy dalton, and the same cam newton you just seemingly dissed.

yes I did, and my point is if you're gonna dog Moore in Carolina for what he had to work with, it's disingenuous to praise Cam at the same time.. or vice versa. Cam at 2-8 shows as much promise as Moore did coming in at 4-7 and ending up .500.

Ilovemyfins4eva
11-25-2011, 10:46 AM
]Ya, before you go spouting nonsense, you might want to look at who has the best Pass D in the league and 5th best D overall.....and it ain't the Cowboys or any other team Moore has played.[/B]o that hatred continues. stop going by only stats. last year our defense was 6th overall statistically, but anyone who watched the games and saw for themselves, that defense last year was no way that dominant as it showed statistically.

lets see what great qbs the browns have played so far to skew their stats.

here are the list of teams the browns played so far.

week 1- cincy- dalton who has turned out to be pretty good, they put up 27 pts.

week 2- indy- curtis painter

week 3-miami- chad henne

week 4- tennessee- hasselbeck

week 5-oakland- campbell

week 6 -seattle- i forgot if it was jackson or whitehurst, either way both blow

week 7- houston- schaub- best qb they faced by a landslide, and that game was over by the 1st half, schaub i think attempted 15 passes the whole game or something

week 8- st louis- bradford

week 9- jacksonville- gabbert

not exactly the great offenses the nfl has seen, specifically qbs.

i agree dallas secondary is far from elite, and that is why moore had some big plays against it. however, ill take dallas d any day over cleveland, due to dallas very good pass rush. cleveland has faced arguably the worst set of qbs in the league. they should be top 2 with that list.

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 10:48 AM
yes I did, and my point is if you're gonna dog Moore in Carolina for what he had to work with, it's disingenuous to praise Cam at the same time.. or vice versa. Cam at 2-8 shows as much promise as Moore did coming in at 4-7 and ending up .500.

thats way off...cam the same promise as matt moore...what rock did you pull that one out of...you kidding me...the panthers have promise with cam newton despite that record this year...matt moore didn't and doesn't bring anywhere near the same level of upside and promise for the future as cam newton...i hope i'm just misreading you here cause otherwise that is just utter nonsense

Cumar
11-25-2011, 10:48 AM
NOT! lmaoo where are the Matt Moore lovers? Where is Finatic, he thought we had found our franchise QB after 3 games against 3 ****ty teams.

He cost us the game literally wiht all those errand behind the WR throws. 1 TD, 1 First down, that alone could have sealed the game BUT STOP, WAIT A MINUTE, dun dun, hes a franchise QB!

**** SUCK FOR LUCK, not like he is accurate like Moore.

LMAO you fans are so easy to please, like i said, win 1 game, we talk franchise QB, win 2 games we talk playoffs.

Moore has in-accuracy issues, no question and that is why it's imperative to draft a QB in the 1st next year. I'm fine keeping Moore as a back-up or as the starter for 2012 if the rookie is not ready, but he is not a long term answer.

By the way, that throw to Bess at the end of their last drive was down right attrocious and had he made that throw, our chances to win that game go up by about 60%. Take another 1:45 off the clock or some of the Cowboy's timeouts. 2 more first downs after that would have sealed it. This guy made some nice throws yesterday but way too many errant ones.

Ilovemyfins4eva
11-25-2011, 10:51 AM
yes I did, and my point is if you're gonna dog Moore in Carolina for what he had to work with, it's disingenuous to praise Cam at the same time.. or vice versa. Cam at 2-8 shows as much promise as Moore did coming in at 4-7 and ending up .500. hey vaark, being that we both seem to defend moore and see something in him, how would u say he played yesterday?

i think in the 1st half the entire offense, including moore was out of sync, our o line stunk it up, moore made some bad decisions, took to many sacks, didnt real the blitzes as well.

however in the 2nd half, i think he played a lot better. it was disappointing how he didnt convert those tds in the redzone, but for a road game in dallas, a place that was rocking, vs a very good pass rush, although far from perfect yesterday compared to the recent games, i dont think he played that bad.

the way many people bash his nit pick every mistake he makes, as much as we like him, these people must have expectations through the roof for him. i guess these guys think so highly of him, that if he does not have an aaron rodgers type performance, they bash him to death.

Vaark
11-25-2011, 10:52 AM
thats way off...cam the same promise as matt moore...what rock did you pull that one out of...you kidding me...the panthers have promise with cam newton despite that record this year...matt moore didn't and doesn't bring anywhere near the same level of upside and promise for the future as cam newton...i hope i'm just misreading you here cause otherwise that is just utter nonsense

Cam at 2-8 with upgraded TEs and healthy Steve Smith and a HC who actually gives a **** about the future has done much better than a concussed Moore at 1-4 with none of those things? Really? What's so hard to understand about that? If you're gonna hold Moore's suckage at Carolina against him in the big picture, or that Moore now only beats weak teams, Gabbert's not getting a pass, why should Cam.. just because his numbers in losing are flashier?

2413fanphins
11-25-2011, 10:53 AM
just from an arguments stanpoint fellas... we can't really dogg the browns defense because they have played poor qb's and than say cam newton sucks... the panthers have the hardest S.O.S, according to

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/35095/2011-strength-of-schedule

I think if everybody just conceeds the fact that we are winning games with matt moore, and henne is done we can all talk about something else. It's pretty obvious to me, and I'm not sure why it's not obvious to just about everyone, we have a bad backup qb, and one decent backup qb... we still need a franchise guy next year.

2413fanphins
11-25-2011, 10:56 AM
Moore has in-accuracy issues, no question and that is why it's imperative to draft a QB in the 1st next year. I'm fine keeping Moore as a back-up or as the starter for 2012 if the rookie is not ready, but he is not a long term answer.

By the way, that throw to Bess at the end of their last drive was down right attrocious and had he made that throw, our chances to win that game go up by about 60%. Take another 1:45 off the clock or some of the Cowboy's timeouts. 2 more first downs after that would have sealed it. This guy made some nice throws yesterday but way too many errant ones.

for a guy with only 5 posts this is quite refreshing...

this has been my point.

Vaark
11-25-2011, 10:56 AM
hey vaark, being that we both seem to defend moore and see something in him, how would u say he played yesterday?

i think in the 1st half the entire offense, including moore was out of sync, our o line stunk it up, moore made some bad decisions, took to many sacks, didnt real the blitzes as well.

however in the 2nd half, i think he played a lot better. it was disappointing how he didnt convert those tds in the redzone, but for a road game in dallas, a place that was rocking, vs a very good pass rush, although far from perfect yesterday compared to the recent games, i dont think he played that bad.

the way many people bash his nit pick every mistake he makes, as much as we like him, these people must have expectations through the roof for him. i guess these guys think so highly of him, that if he does not have an aaron rodgers type performance, they bash him to death.

Barkley has beaten Oregon and 8-3 ND at least playing in a cupcake division. Luck beat 6 teams with 3 or less wins, yet the suckage goes to Luck while even his own partial dad concedes that they're about equal. It's funny how Moore's play vs the big boys who actually made the cut in the NFL gets sliced and diced while Luck's victories against 2nd and 3rd tier H.S. recruits on teams with a combined .400 winning record gets exhalted. Too much Koolaid inebriation :idk:

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 10:56 AM
the accuracy issues are a definite concern and they're drive killers...i don't buy the with more reps moore will become more accurate...i guess the people who believe that also believe in time tim tebow will be a much more accurate passer...balogna...accuracy and ball placement issues will always be a part of tim tebow just like they'll always be a part of matt moore...same for mark sanchez... when you see guys spraying the ball all over the field its a red flag and a long term concern...

moores accuracy will hold him back in this league...just like it will tebow and is mark sanchez

67Stang
11-25-2011, 10:58 AM
This guy has 1....ONE 300 yard game in his career and the vast majority are under 200 yards. WOW!

Ilovemyfins4eva
11-25-2011, 10:58 AM
just from an arguments stanpoint fellas... we can't really dogg the browns defense because they have played poor qb's and than say cam newton sucks... the panthers have the hardest S.O.S, according to

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/35095/2011-strength-of-schedule

I think if everybody just conceeds the fact that we are winning games with matt moore, and henne is done we can all talk about something else. It's pretty obvious to me, and I'm not sure why it's not obvious to just about everyone, we have a bad backup qb, and one decent backup qb... we still need a franchise guy next year.ok, thats a fair argument. may i ask u though, aside from luck and barkley, do you really think that any of these guys are sure ''franchise'' guys?

i mean, i would love barkley or luck, but lets be honest. luck is going to indy, hes off the table, and barkley i feel will end up with the skins. snyder,if not given the chance to draft him, will prob offer a team like 5 first round picks,lol.

i like griffin so hes an option, im just not sold on jones though, and i dont want to take jones, just to say we took a ''1st round qb''. i want to take the right qb. i like griffin, but not sold on jones ( im not really sold on oklahoma qbs in general, and watching him play, i feel hes more of a college qb, maybe he can be average at the nfl, but far from a franchise qb)

whoever we bring in, let moore and that guy battle it out.

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 10:59 AM
Cam at 2-8 with upgraded TEs and healthy Steve Smith and a HC who actually gives a **** about the future has done much better than a concussed Moore at 1-4 with none of those things? Really? What's so hard to understand about that? If you're gonna hold Moore's suckage at Carolina against him in the big picture, or that Moore now only beats weak teams, Gabbert's not getting a pass, why should Cam.. just because his numbers in losing are flashier?

i think you need to watch more cam newton...thats what i think...and i think your take is bananas...to be honest

2413fanphins
11-25-2011, 11:01 AM
Barkley has beaten Oregon and 8-3 ND at least playing in a cupcake division. Luck beat 6 teams with 3 or less wins, yet the suckage goes to Luck while even his own partial dad concedes that they're about equal. It's funny how Moore's play vs the big boys who actually made the cut in the NFL gets sliced and diced while Luck's victories against 2nd and 3rd tier H.S. recruits on teams with a combined .400 winning record gets exhalted. Too much Koolaid inebriation :idk:

I kind of think it's funny that people on here compare matt moore to tom brady one day, and andrew luck, a guy who isn't even in the league yet, the next day.

furthermore whats even funnier, is that when matt moore throws 3 tds against kansas city, and brady only throws 2 against them, matt moore is somehow better.

as for barkley... I can only hope we land him.

Vaark
11-25-2011, 11:02 AM
i think you need to watch more cam newton...thats what i think...and i think your take is bananas...to be honest

I can respect that, especially since you qualified that as your opinion. It's the mindless bashing that's proferred up as fact by junior GMs who've formed their opinions remotely while holding their own remotes nestled in their easy chairs that I take most issue to.

I can't see where holding Moore responsible for 2010, yet ignoring 2009 is anything but self-serving when it comes to making an argument considering both versions of Carolina were inferior in many ways to the 2011 Cam Newton version. Can't you see that?

67Stang
11-25-2011, 11:03 AM
Cam Newton is a BEAST!!!!! He has surprised the heck out of me!

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 11:08 AM
I can respect that, especially since you qualified that as your opinion. It's the mindless bashing that's proferred up as fact by junior GMs who've formed their opinions remotely while holding their own remotes nestled in their easy chairs that I take most issue to.

I can't see where holding Moore responsible for 2010, yet ignoring 2009 is anything but self-serving when it comes to making an argument considering both versions of Carolina were inferior in many ways to the 2011 Cam Newton version. Can't you see that?

first off why in the hell is anyone comparing matt moore at any time to cam newton as a rookie...the difference in talent level and nfl play to date is night and day...i mean for real...thats a waste of time exercise on anyones part...

second the part i bolded reads like a jab at me...

2413fanphins
11-25-2011, 11:10 AM
ok, thats a fair argument. may i ask u though, aside from luck and barkley, do you really think that any of these guys are sure ''franchise'' guys?

i mean, i would love barkley or luck, but lets be honest. luck is going to indy, hes off the table, and barkley i feel will end up with the skins. snyder,if not given the chance to draft him, will prob offer a team like 5 first round picks,lol.

i like griffin so hes an option, im just not sold on jones though, and i dont want to take jones, just to say we took a ''1st round qb''. i want to take the right qb. i like griffin, but not sold on jones ( im not really sold on oklahoma qbs in general, and watching him play, i feel hes more of a college qb, maybe he can be average at the nfl, but far from a franchise qb)

whoever we bring in, let moore and that guy battle it out.

I'm not sure anybody is a franchise quarterback. You know, they don't have it tattooed on their forehead!!! hahaha... the point is, you never know til you find out??!! what? LOL

you have to do your research on a guy, and if he's there when it's your pick you pull the trigger. If he's your guy, and he might come off the board, you better be trading up.
I actually like landry jones, I seem to be in a minority with that lately. But living in the midwest I have watched him throw the ball all over the place. He has areas of his game that need work, and will take some polishing, but I still like him as a prospect. RG 3, I have seen just a small sampling. As a matter of fact I think I have only seen one game, but he was very intriguing. Barkley is the guy for me, that game against stanford was EPIC.. from both qb's I thought.. one of the old dan marino esque games where, the QB who has the ball last is going to win type feelings... that to me is a franchise quarterback.. with marino, you always knew you had a chance, IF the ball was in his hands.

That game between standord and USC, showed me that both those guys have the ability to effiiciently run a 2 min offense, bring their team from behind, and those two things I think will ultimately lead a qb to that killer instinct to put teams away.

to matt moore... I think yesterday told a lot for me... i have reserved full judgement til week 17.. but yesterday was a stage for matt moore to show EVERYONE he could do it.

the first half, the dallas team tried to give us the ****in game, and he didnt' take advantage of it. He looked nervous as hell to me, very tight. I thought it may have been too big of stage for him. thanksgiving day, on the road at dallas... I think we were 4-1 all time against them on turkey day.. I think we have had three different qbs win there as well. the second half he seemed to calm down a little, but not enough I didn't think. had a chance to keep a drive alive and burn clock, I think he had to connect on a pass less than ten yards, and threw it horribly behind bess.... One game is but a sample of the body of work, which is what I have tried to get across to you in regards to the KC and buffalo games.... but it does still show signs he may not have it against teams that are above average

rev kev
11-25-2011, 11:13 AM
Cam Newton is gonna beat teams a number of ways in the future - at the same time I don't expect him to lead his team to 35 pts a game on a regular basis... Newton is gonna win the ugly way

Newton was the only QB i would have traded up for and he is showing why

nyashfan
11-25-2011, 11:14 AM
And don't forget that last year he had a concussion and a significant shoulder injury. Cam Newton has played well and made a lot of ESPN highlights. But he also has made a lot of mistakes e.g. threw 4 picks last week. I just think that Matt Moore has a lot of positive intangibles and that if given some better protection and good coaching could be really effective. But if our QB doesn't have the pedigree of being a 1st round draft pick from the Pac-12 or Big-12, then I guess some aren't interested. Please tell me what amazing pedigree Tony Romo has?


He's 10-10 as a starter including coming in in 09 when the Panthers were 4-7 to salvage a .500 season. He was 1-4 in 2010 for a team that finished 2-14.. just about the same record as the great Cam Newton's 2-8 for an upgraded team and coach who wasn't a lame duck. He was pressed into service with little preseason or 1st team reps for a winless team in 2011.

Bottom Line: he's 10-10 for a team that went 10-32 in 2 years and another that was 0-4 when he was pressed into service . So let's just put some of that into perspective here, okay?

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 11:16 AM
newton is one of those rare talents who can throw 4 picks in a game but still give you 21 points on 3 tds 2 rushing and 1 passing cause he's such a rediculous duel threat talent...he did it just last sunday...a bad game by all accounts but still 21 points he accounted for...how often do we get 21 points in a game from a qb??? once a damn season...if that maybe

like i said any exercise regarding newton and matt moore is a failure

GRYPHONK
11-25-2011, 11:20 AM
first off why in the hell is anyone comparing matt moore at any time to cam newton as a rookie...the difference in talent level and nfl play to date is night and day...i mean for real...thats a waste of time exercise on anyones part...

second the part i bolded reads like a jab at me...

I know this didn't involve me.

BUt I will just say, I think the poster was saying to you that you weren't one of those mindless junior GM'S. He even stated that you stated it was your opinion.

So don't take it personally it didn't read as a jab or an attack on you. It read exactly how it wrote, I don't mind what you are saying it's the other people that are doing it this way.

I would say in all the times I debated with you I concur with what he said. Though you may have been head strong, you always admitted it was your opinion and you were able to debate it with substance. So even though I didn't agree with you, I respected your opposing views.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 11:22 AM
I find it really funny the nitpicking going on with Moore right now. Yes, he missed a few passes. But how about throwing for almost 300 yds in-spite the struggles. Almost 300 yds and it was not garbage yards, we were not trailing by two scores, those yards came when we needed them the most. Moore got us the lead with less than 5 minutes to go? Where the **** was the D when we needed it most? Oh yeah that's right, having to deal that ****ing magician name Tony Romo. The lack of football I/Q on this site is repulsive.

GRYPHONK
11-25-2011, 11:22 AM
newton is one of those rare talents who can throw 4 picks in a game but still give you 21 points on 3 tds 2 rushing and 1 passing cause he's such a rediculous duel threat talent...he did it just last sunday...a bad game by all accounts but still 21 points he accounted for...how often do we get 21 points in a game from a qb??? once a damn season...if that maybe

like i said any exercise regarding newton and matt moore is a failure

Yes and no.

If you are comparing talent and style you are 100% correct.

If you are talking about surronding talent I would disagree.

Regardless, Newton does look like one of those rare talents you mentioned.

67Stang
11-25-2011, 11:25 AM
Nothing would please me more than for Matt Moore to start playing better against the better teams, stop fumbling the damn ball, and to finish strong as to where we didn't need to spend our #1 on a QB as we need help in a lot of places (QB right now is most important). However, with basically half a season under his belt as a starter, he is not even close to a guy that I think can help us make the playoffs. I can say the same for Henne. That leaves us either drafting a QB, or maybe landing Brees or Manning, which would be hard but not impossible with upcoming scenarios.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 11:27 AM
And look who just cracked the top ten in passer rating ? Let me guess that don't matter either. LMAO.

Vaark
11-25-2011, 11:27 AM
first off why in the hell is anyone comparing matt moore at any time to cam newton as a rookie...the difference in talent level and nfl play to date is night and day...i mean for real...thats a waste of time exercise on anyones part...

second the part i bolded reads like a jab at me...

No! I apologize if that's the impression I gave as yours in one of the few informed opinions I do respect around here as I know it's backed up by a lot of background research and film review. It was definitely a jab but not at you, okay?

GRYPHONK
11-25-2011, 11:28 AM
I find it really funny the nitpicking going on with Moore right now. Yes, he missed a few passes. But how about throwing for almost 300 yds in-spite the struggles. Almost 300 yds and it was not garbage yards, we were not trailing by two scores, those yards came when we needed them the most. Moore got us the lead with less than 5 minutes to go? Where the **** was the D when we needed it most? Oh yeah that's right, having to deal that ****ing magician name Tony Romo. The lack of football I/Q on this site is repulsive.

I agree. I am one of the biggest Moore supporters and wanted him to start since we got him.

However, had he made that completion to Clay or that completion to Bess we aren't having this ridiculous nitpicking thread.

Overall good game. That's what the stats show. But he had 2 chances to seal the game, and he couldn't make relatively easy throws.

I am still on the Moore train. I want us to draft a 1st round QB and start Moore next season. It's just a shame how set in their ways people are to not realize how good Moore has been playing. He had a typical Joe Flacco type game yesterday. I wonder how many of these Moore haters would love to have Flacco on this team?

The Moore hates will find every little ridiculous thing they can to negate the good he does. Even Rodgers and Brees and Brady miss easy throws. But peoples opinions on Moore are already made up. He is horrible and we need to draft a franchise QB. So if they don't like the way he sat down after scoring a TD they would critiscize him.

I would lmost guarantee there are about 15 teams that wish their QB was playing as well as Moore lately and especially yesterday.

But in fairness. The stats didn't tell the whole story yesterday.

2413fanphins
11-25-2011, 11:30 AM
And look who just cracked the top ten in passer rating ? Let me guess that don't matter either. LMAO.


why would it matter? honestly if his qb rating is 99 for a game and we lose the game... why would it matter?

67Stang
11-25-2011, 11:31 AM
I find it really funny the nitpicking going on with Moore right now. Yes, he missed a few passes. But how about throwing for almost 300 yds in-spite the struggles. Almost 300 yds and it was not garbage yards, we were not trailing by two scores, those yards came when we needed them the most. Moore got us the lead with less than 5 minutes to go? Where the **** was the D when we needed it most? Oh yeah that's right, having to deal that ****ing magician name Tony Romo. The lack of football I/Q on this site is repulsive.
HAHA, nitpicking!!! That is funny! We should have NEVER been in a position where a FG could beat us. We were because Matt Moore failed to capitalize on early turn overs and awesome field position, failed to score TDs in 4 trips to the redzone, fumbled (again) with a minute to go in the half gift wrapping a Dallas TD to take the lead going into the half, and couldn't make the plays to seal the deal at the end of the game. If I was the D, I would be a little frustrated to be put in that position after the game they played.

GRYPHONK
11-25-2011, 11:32 AM
Nothing would please me more than for Matt Moore to start playing better against the better teams, stop fumbling the damn ball, and to finish strong as to where we didn't need to spend our #1 on a QB as we need help in a lot of places (QB right now is most important). However, with basically half a season under his belt as a starter, he is not even close to a guy that I think can help us make the playoffs. I can say the same for Henne. That leaves us either drafting a QB, or maybe landing Brees or Manning, which would be hard but not impossible with upcoming scenarios.

Not even close? I don't get that.

We were in position to beat the Giants, Broncos and Cowboys. If the defense does their jobs he is 6-2 as a starter. Granted, he wasn't stellar in those games. But he didn't lose those games, played good enough to win.

So i just don't get how you can say he can't help us make the playoffs.

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 11:32 AM
Yes and no.

If you are comparing talent and style you are 100% correct.

If you are talking about surronding talent I would disagree.

Regardless, Newton does look like one of those rare talents you mentioned.

steve smith last year in carolina everyone thought was on his death bed as a impact nfl player...they draft cam newton and steve smith has a major resurgence this season...thats not a coincidence...thats cam newton

and i don't but the surrounding talent argument...the talent that makes everything go in that carolina o is cam newton...he's the straw that stirs the drink...period...the panthers have little to no running game from the rbs and rely on cam newton to make plays run and pass...and he's been making them all season...jeremy shockey blows the te from the bears is a nice player yes and he does have deangelo williams but they're not uber loaded with talent like some want to make them out to be...not by a long shot...the premium talent is cam newton

miami doesn't play this weekend i encourage all of you who have the sunday ticket to take in the colts panthers game this sunday...you'll get a good look at the talent that is cam newton...

67Stang
11-25-2011, 11:39 AM
Not even close? I don't get that.

We were in position to beat the Giants, Broncos and Cowboys. If the defense does their jobs he is 6-2 as a starter. Granted, he wasn't stellar in those games. But he didn't lose those games, played good enough to win.

So i just don't get how you can say he can't help us make the playoffs.

Why do you think the D is losing at the end of games? Are they just giving up? They are tired, due to the O's inability to string drives together. We are not going to win a lot of games with Moores pedestrian numbers.

GRYPHONK
11-25-2011, 11:40 AM
HAHA, nitpicking!!! That is funny! We should have NEVER been in a position where a FG could beat us. We were because Matt Moore failed to capitalize on early turn overs and awesome field position, failed to score TDs in 4 trips to the redzone, fumbled (again) with a minute to go in the half gift wrapping a Dallas TD to take the lead going into the half, and couldn't make the plays to seal the deal at the end of the game. If I was the D, I would be a little frustrated to be put in that position after the game they played.

I can agree with that.

But don't forget. The 2nd half Moore played great. He started the half with a 7 minute scoring drive. Then he went out and lead a crucial drive late in the 4th to get us the go ahead potential winning FG.

It is nitpicking. But, to be fair again, it is understandable nitpicking.

This is a tough one for me. There is a huge difference between this one and Cleveland. Moore already helped get the game leading FG. He was then asked to ICE the game and get a 1st down. He wasn't able to ICE the game. Hwever, he did help get the game LEADING FG drive.

So the defense has no right to be frustated since with less then 5 mins to play, Moore helped get them the lead.

I would say Moore has the right to be upset with the defense for allowing Murray to continously get 5 extra yards after initial contact.

Neither side should hang their heads low. Both played a solid game. Dallas was just in position to have the ball last. That's all.

We can't pick and choose what we want to look at. Yes Moore missed throws. Yes Moore blew a chance to seal the victory. However, he with his 2nd half play gave the team what should have been the game winning FG.

I could just as easily say the defense didn't ice the game and seal the game. It's not like Dallas had GREAT field position on that last drive. What was it the 34? The defense had many chances to stop Dallas on that drive but couldn't.

So why are we blaming a QB who couldn't ice the game, but got us the lead and not the defense who twice in the 4th quarter gave up the lead?

You really think the defense should be frustrated with a QB who gave the Dolphins the lead twice in the 2nd half?

tylerdolphin
11-25-2011, 11:42 AM
I find it really funny the nitpicking going on with Moore right now. Yes, he missed a few passes. But how about throwing for almost 300 yds in-spite the struggles. Almost 300 yds and it was not garbage yards, we were not trailing by two scores, those yards came when we needed them the most. Moore got us the lead with less than 5 minutes to go? Where the **** was the D when we needed it most? Oh yeah that's right, having to deal that ****ing magician name Tony Romo. The lack of football I/Q on this site is repulsive.

Wait.

The offense did nothing all day but kick FGs despite the defense repeatedly setting them up in prime position. Matt Moore repeatedly missed throws and repeatedly failed to finish drives. Matt Moore fumbled the snaps and gave Dallas 7 plus stalled another drive.

The defense plays well all day. Forces 2 turnovers and in general holds an explosive offense in check. They allowed 13 points all day.

In your mind its the defense's fault? Look in the mirror before you start talking about football IQ.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 11:45 AM
This is the Passer rating for all the qb's Dallas has faced this year.

Mike Vick 129.9
Matt Moore 99.5
Mark Sanchez 88.7
Rex Grossman 86.6
Tom Brady 82.3
Matt Stafford 71.8
A.J. Feeley 65.7
Tarvris Jackson 40.4




Ryan Fitzpatrick 46.6

Moore, has the highest rating in Dallas stadium, so chew on that for a minute. But this is finheaven, numbers don't lie. After tough effort, against the second best team in the NFC in my humble opinion, we still think clearly.

And did anyone pay attention to what he said after the game?? "I will get better in those situations in the future". "We didn't score in the red zone, so put it all on me". "We could run out the clock, so but it all on me"

I know this is not saying much, but right now Moore is playing like the second best QB to play here since Marino retired. And I got fact to back me up.

67Stang
11-25-2011, 11:47 AM
I can agree with that.

But don't forget. The 2nd half Moore played great. He started the half with a 7 minute scoring drive. Then he went out and lead a crucial drive late in the 4th to get us the go ahead potential winning FG.

It is nitpicking. But, to be fair again, it is understandable nitpicking.

This is a tough one for me. There is a huge difference between this one and Cleveland. Moore already helped get the game leading FG. He was then asked to ICE the game and get a 1st down. He wasn't able to ICE the game. Hwever, he did help get the game LEADING FG drive.

So the defense has no right to be frustated since with less then 5 mins to play, Moore helped get them the lead.

I would say Moore has the right to be upset with the defense for allowing Murray to continously get 5 extra yards after initial contact.

Neither side should hang their heads low. Both played a solid game. Dallas was just in position to have the ball last. That's all.

We can't pick and choose what we want to look at. Yes Moore missed throws. Yes Moore blew a chance to seal the victory. However, he with his 2nd half play gave the team what should have been the game winning FG.

I could just as easily say the defense didn't ice the game and seal the game. It's not like Dallas had GREAT field position on that last drive. What was it the 34? The defense had many chances to stop Dallas on that drive but couldn't.

So why are we blaming a QB who couldn't ice the game, but got us the lead and not the defense who twice in the 4th quarter gave up the lead?

You really think the defense should be frustrated with a QB who gave the Dolphins the lead twice in the 2nd half?

Yes because he also gave up 7 points on yet another fumble (9 this season) and after a nearly perfect half of defensive football to include 2 picks, trailed at half time. Also, the 34 is pretty freaking good field posistion, especially when you only need a FG.

GRYPHONK
11-25-2011, 11:47 AM
Why do you think the D is losing at the end of games? Are they just giving up? They are tired, due to the O's inability to string drives together. We are not going to win a lot of games with Moores pedestrian numbers.

Oh I see. That's the excuse we are going with now. I was with you till you threw that excuse out there.

I guess you missed the 2nd half opening drive that went 7+ minutes. I guess you missed the 2 leads Moore got this defense in the 2nd half and the 2 blown leads by the defense in the 4th.

You do realize the offense kept the ball 18 minutes out of 30 second half minutes right?

The facts disprove what you just said. 18 minutes TOP to 12 in the 2nd half. The offense had 2, 7 minute drives in the 2nd half.

Sorry to burst your bubble. Horrible excuse you just gave.

Won't win with Moore's pedestrian #'s. Yet the fact remains that in 3 of our losses with him as QB we had 4th quarter leads. Looks to me like his pedestrian #'s were good enough for us to be 6-2 right now with him as a starter.

I know what side of the fence you are clearly on with Moore. No point in even trying to debate with you anymore on this if this is the type of stuff you are going to throw out there

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 11:47 AM
Wait.

The offense did nothing all day but kick FGs despite the defense repeatedly setting them up in prime position. Matt Moore repeatedly missed throws and repeatedly failed to finish drives. Matt Moore fumbled the snaps and gave Dallas 7 plus stalled another drive.

The defense plays well all day. Forces 2 turnovers and in general holds an explosive offense in check. They allowed 13 points all day.

In your mind its the defense's fault? Look in the mirror before you start talking about football IQ.

I never said it was the defenses fault, comprehend better, what I said was despite all of Matt Struggles, we still had the lead with under 5 Minutes to go, that's when we need the Defense to step up and it clearly didn't it. I'm not blaming the D, it played a great game, up until the time when we need them the most. But why does it matter what the **** I say, you will never see it from my point of few any dam ways, so this is pointless.

Cumar
11-25-2011, 11:48 AM
I can agree with that.

But don't forget. The 2nd half Moore played great. He started the half with a 7 minute scoring drive. Then he went out and lead a crucial drive late in the 4th to get us the go ahead potential winning FG.

It is nitpicking. But, to be fair again, it is understandable nitpicking.

This is a tough one for me. There is a huge difference between this one and Cleveland. Moore already helped get the game leading FG. He was then asked to ICE the game and get a 1st down. He wasn't able to ICE the game. Hwever, he did help get the game LEADING FG drive.

So the defense has no right to be frustated since with less then 5 mins to play, Moore helped get them the lead.

I would say Moore has the right to be upset with the defense for allowing Murray to continously get 5 extra yards after initial contact.

Neither side should hang their heads low. Both played a solid game. Dallas was just in position to have the ball last. That's all.

We can't pick and choose what we want to look at. Yes Moore missed throws. Yes Moore blew a chance to seal the victory. However, he with his 2nd half play gave the team what should have been the game winning FG.

I could just as easily say the defense didn't ice the game and seal the game. It's not like Dallas had GREAT field position on that last drive. What was it the 34? The defense had many chances to stop Dallas on that drive but couldn't.

So why are we blaming a QB who couldn't ice the game, but got us the lead and not the defense who twice in the 4th quarter gave up the lead?
You really think the defense should be frustrated with a QB who gave the Dolphins the lead twice in the 2nd half?

Why do we have to pick a side. They both failled when given the opportunity to seal the game. Defense couldn't make a stop and the offense couldn't get a first down. Fail on both ends. Agreed they played well despite the failures, but neither played well enough.

tylerdolphin
11-25-2011, 11:48 AM
This is the Passer rating for all the qb's Dallas has faced this year.

Mike Vick 129.9
Matt Moore 99.5
Mark Sanchez 88.7
Rex Grossman 86.6
Tom Brady 82.3
Matt Stafford 71.8
A.J. Feeley 65.7
Tarvris Jackson 40.4




Ryan Fitzpatrick 46.6

Moore, has the highest rating in Dallas stadium, so chew on that for a minute. But this is finheaven, numbers don't lie. After tough effort, against the second best team in the NFC in my humble opinion, we still think clearly.

And did anyone pay attention to what he said after the game?? "I will get better in those situations in the future". "We didn't score in the red zone, so put it all on me". "We could run out the clock, so but it all on me"

I know this is not saying much, but right now Moore is playing like the second best QB to play here since Marino retired. And I got fact to back me up.

You clearly didnt watch the game. Was Moore unspeakably horrible? No. But he also was nowhere near as good as you are making him out to be. He blew numerous opportunities and failed to fully capitalize on many others. If you have 5 FG tries, you didnt get it done as a QB that week. You just arent gonna win many games where you consistently fail to reach the endzone.

GRYPHONK
11-25-2011, 11:49 AM
Yes because he also gave up 7 points on yet another fumble (9 this season) and after a nearly perfect half of defensive football to include 2 picks, trailed at half time. Also, the 34 is pretty freaking good field posistion, especially when you only need a FG.

Yet, due to his play in the 2nd half, gave this team 2 leads. 2 leads that the defense BLEW in the 4th.

67Stang
11-25-2011, 11:50 AM
This is the Passer rating for all the qb's Dallas has faced this year.

Mike Vick 129.9
Matt Moore 99.5
Mark Sanchez 88.7
Rex Grossman 86.6
Tom Brady 82.3
Matt Stafford 71.8
A.J. Feeley 65.7
Tarvris Jackson 40.4




Ryan Fitzpatrick 46.6

Moore, has the highest rating in Dallas stadium, so chew on that for a minute. But this is finheaven, numbers don't lie. After tough effort, against the second best team in the NFC in my humble opinion, we still think clearly.

And did anyone pay attention to what he said after the game?? "I will get better in those situations in the future". "We didn't score in the red zone, so put it all on me". "We could run out the clock, so but it all on me"

I know this is not saying much, but right now Moore is playing like the second best QB to play here since Marino retired. And I got fact to back me up.

Who cares about QB rating? You can throw 1 TD, no ints and bust 100. Zero, none, notta TD's in 4 trips to the redzone and 7 points are on him. That is not reflected in said QBR.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 11:51 AM
Oh I see. That's the excuse we are going with now. I was with you till you threw that excuse out there.

I guess you missed the 2nd half opening drive that went 7+ minutes. I guess you missed the 2 leads Moore got this defense in the 2nd half and the 2 blown leads by the defense in the 4th.

You do realize the offense kept the ball 18 minutes out of 30 second half minutes right?

The facts disprove what you just said. 18 minutes TOP to 12 in the 2nd half. The offense had 2, 7 minute drives in the 2nd half.

Sorry to burst your bubble. Horrible excuse you just gave.

Won't win with Moore's pedestrian #'s. Yet the fact remains that in 3 of our losses with him as QB we had 4th quarter leads. Looks to me like his pedestrian #'s were good enough for us to be 6-2 right now with him as a starter.

I know what side of the fence you are clearly on with Moore. No point in even trying to debate with you anymore on this if this is the type of stuff you are going to throw out there

You can't be logical with these people, they threw the white flag on this entire organization long time ago.

tylerdolphin
11-25-2011, 11:51 AM
I never said it was the defenses fault, comprehend better, what I said was despite all of Matt Struggles, we still had the lead with under 5 Minutes to go, that's when we need the Defense to step up and it clearly didn't it. I'm not blaming the D, it played a great game, up until the time when we need them the most. But why does it matter what the **** I say, you will never see it from my point of few any dam ways, so this is pointless.

Yeah. The D didnt step up. All the did was provided two turnovers and gave the offense good field to work with and held Dallas in check all night only to have it squandered by the offense that was failing and producing points.

GRYPHONK
11-25-2011, 11:52 AM
You clearly didnt watch the game. Was Moore unspeakably horrible? No. But he also was nowhere near as good as you are making him out to be. He blew numerous opportunities and failed to fully capitalize on many others. If you have 5 FG tries, you didnt get it done as a QB that week. You just arent gonna win many games where you consistently fail to reach the endzone.

Yes I agree. Statistially a good game. However, he didn't make the throw when we needed him to. He didn't lose this game for us, however, he didn't do what he needed to win it either.

Hopefully it is a 1 week thing. If he does this every week or more often, then we will see that he is nothing more then an average starting QB and a great backup. Which isn't enough for me at the position

67Stang
11-25-2011, 11:53 AM
Yet, due to his play in the 2nd half, gave this team 2 leads. 2 leads that the defense BLEW in the 4th.
Dallas is going to score points, unfortunately we didn't when given ample oppertunities and actually gave up 7 points. His fumble alone cost us the game.

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 11:53 AM
I know this didn't involve me.

BUt I will just say, I think the poster was saying to you that you weren't one of those mindless junior GM'S. He even stated that you stated it was your opinion.

So don't take it personally it didn't read as a jab or an attack on you. It read exactly how it wrote, I don't mind what you are saying it's the other people that are doing it this way.

I would say in all the times I debated with you I concur with what he said. Though you may have been head strong, you always admitted it was your opinion and you were able to debate it with substance. So even though I didn't agree with you, I respected your opposing views.

ha ha...head strong...you and the blue man are getting no chistmas card from hoops this year...:lol:

J. David Wannyheimer
11-25-2011, 11:53 AM
I think everyone here is giving Matt Moore credit for doing a great job coming in as a backup and beating up on the teams that we should beat. And he does deserve credit for that. He is a better QB than Chad Henne, period.

I only caught glimpses of the game, but I did see him miss Bess on third down, make a bad throw in the end zone, fumble a snap that turned into a touchdown, etc. Now, you can look at that and say "Of course he will correct all of those issues, let's sign him to a huge contract!" or you can look at that and think that maybe Miami should hedge its bets.

Also, the passer rating system is pretty flawed. Tim Tebow had a great passer rating in that game when he completed just two passes, but you certainly wouldn't call that a great passing performance. It doesn't factor in stuff like fumbles, and if a receiver drops an easy completion, it has the same weight in the system as an awful throw by the QB.

I would look at the game and ask, did Moore leave points on the board? Did Moore make some bad plays that cost us points? And I would definitely say that he did. So some criticism is certainly warranted.

GRYPHONK
11-25-2011, 11:54 AM
Yeah. The D didnt step up. All the did was provided two turnovers and gave the offense good field to work with and held Dallas in check all night only to have it squandered by the offense that was failing and producing points.

Be fair though. He gave this team the lead twice in the 2nd half with drive of 6:57 and 7:17. Twice the defense gave the lead away in the 4th.

So yes, the D played an overall good game, but didn't make the big play when they needed to. It's almost like Matt Moore exactly. Overall played well, but couldn't ice the game when we needed them to. Defense was great 1st half, average to below average the 2nd.

tylerdolphin
11-25-2011, 11:54 AM
You can't be logical with these people, they threw the white flag on this entire organization long time ago.

Yeah, youre pretty much a bastion of logic and objectivity. :rolleyes:

You were still posting about playoffs a few days ago :lol:

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 11:58 AM
Who cares about QB rating? You can throw 1 TD, no ints and bust 100. Zero, none, notta TD's in 4 trips to the redzone and 7 points are on him. That is not reflected in said QBR.

Wow, who cares about QB rating hunh? LMAO. You do realize QB rating directly results into winning right? You do know the top 9 highest rate QB right now all having winning records or leading their division right ?

This has to be the dumbness **** I ever read. Who cares about QB rating, if this wasn't so funny I would almost feel bad for you.

Cumar
11-25-2011, 11:59 AM
Oh I see. That's the excuse we are going with now. I was with you till you threw that excuse out there.

I guess you missed the 2nd half opening drive that went 7+ minutes. I guess you missed the 2 leads Moore got this defense in the 2nd half and the 2 blown leads by the defense in the 4th.

You do realize the offense kept the ball 18 minutes out of 30 second half minutes right?

The facts disprove what you just said. 18 minutes TOP to 12 in the 2nd half. The offense had 2, 7 minute drives in the 2nd half.

Sorry to burst your bubble. Horrible excuse you just gave.

Won't win with Moore's pedestrian #'s. Yet the fact remains that in 3 of our losses with him as QB we had 4th quarter leads. Looks to me like his pedestrian #'s were good enough for us to be 6-2 right now with him as a starter.

I know what side of the fence you are clearly on with Moore. No point in even trying to debate with you anymore on this if this is the type of stuff you are going to throw out there

I would be happy to debate with you on this topic. I happen to like Matt Moore. I think he is and will be a solid starter in this league. The crux of it all is that he's not elite. He has too many deficiencies that cannot be developed. He has accuracy issues and his arm isn't that strong. He does have some type of "IT" factor though which is something Chad Henne obviously lacked. In the end, Moore has played well since taking over but he has still shown the deficiencies that to me make me want to look elsewhere for our future at QB. That pass to Bess on 3rd and 8 that would have given us a 1st down is a prime example of my outlook for Matt Moore in this league. The guy can absolutely put your team on his back and win games for you. He can absolutely make some nice throws. Unfortunately he can also have accuracy issues that don't span to just 1 or 2 mis-cues a game (yesterday it was 4+ poorly thrown balls).

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 12:00 PM
Yeah, youre pretty much a bastion of logic and objectivity. :rolleyes:

You were still posting about playoffs a few days ago :lol:

See how much of a liar you are? Please show me one post where I mentioned **** about the ****ing playoffs? Show me? It's sad you have to result to making **** up when you have nothing to say.

And show me where I've not been logical or objective please do?

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 12:00 PM
nothing more worthless imo than quoting a qbr number for assessing a qbs worth...yeah matt moore may have had a higher rating than some of the opposition qbs vs dallas this year but i can damn well guarantee that some of those qbs made plays in the clutch to move the chains hang tds on the board that matt moore missed yesterday...

just a worthless exercise...different games play out different ways...if you wanna argue something bring something more to the table

67Stang
11-25-2011, 12:07 PM
Wow, who cares about QB rating hunh? LMAO. You do realize QB rating directly results into winning right? You do know the top 9 highest rate QB right now all having winning records or leading their division right ?

This has to be the dumbness **** I ever read. Who cares about QB rating, if this wasn't so funny I would almost feel bad for you.
Tony Romo 78.8 Matt Moore 99.5, who got the win? Who gives a flying crap about a stupid number that is effected more by not throwing a pic, then inability to score TD's in 4 trips in the redzone and gift wrapping 7 points for the other team. That sure is a pretty number though, it served him well.

67Stang
11-25-2011, 12:12 PM
By the way Dan Marino has a career 86.4 QBR, man he sucked!

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 12:14 PM
nothing more worthless imo than quoting a qbr number for assessing a qbs worth...yeah matt moore may have had a higher rating than some of the opposition qbs vs dallas this year but i can damn well guarantee that some of those qbs made plays in the clutch to move the chains hang tds on the board that matt moore missed yesterday...

just a worthless exercise...different games play out different ways...if you wanna argue something bring something more to the table

Jesus Christ. If he's rating is better, it means he mad more clutch throws, than all that other QB's. My god. It really can't be this bad.

Did you see the throw's to HArtline? How bout the one to Marshall that wasn't clutch? Or the one to Fasano? So in 4 quarters you didn't see any clutch throws from MAtt is that what you are going to sit here and tell me ?

---------- Post added at 11:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------


By the way Dan Marino has a career 86.4 QBR, man he sucked!

And I'm the one that's not logical? You can't possibly be serious. This is one of the most childish points to ever bring up. Cuz everyone in the grandma's know better and you should to, before even making that point. That's the best you got? Nothing else?

I never once brought on Dan's name. But I guess you always have that card in your pocket, throw it out when ever you deemed fit.

Phinatic8u
11-25-2011, 12:16 PM
steve smith last year in carolina everyone thought was on his death bed as a impact nfl player...they draft cam newton and steve smith has a major resurgence this season...thats not a coincidence...thats cam newton

and i don't but the surrounding talent argument...the talent that makes everything go in that carolina o is cam newton...he's the straw that stirs the drink...period...the panthers have little to no running game from the rbs and rely on cam newton to make plays run and pass...and he's been making them all season...jeremy shockey blows the te from the bears is a nice player yes and he does have deangelo williams but they're not uber loaded with talent like some want to make them out to be...not by a long shot...the premium talent is cam newton

miami doesn't play this weekend i encourage all of you who have the sunday ticket to take in the colts panthers game this sunday...you'll get a good look at the talent that is cam newton...

I see Cam every weekend. He is a good rookie, but he isnt a winner. He cares to much about the camara or his stupid *** TD celebration.

He needs to get his *** back to the bench and stop throwing ******* INTs. Cant stand when losers celebrate.

RobertHorry
11-25-2011, 12:17 PM
The throws to hartline and Marshall were Terrible throws that our wrs managed to make spectacular catches on

J. David Wannyheimer
11-25-2011, 12:17 PM
Jesus Christ. If he's rating is better, it means he mad more clutch throws, than all that other QB's. My god. It really can't be this bad.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't mean that at all. The passer rating statistic is a FORMULA that does not factor in ANYTHING except for the raw numbers. Dropped passes? Errant throws? Sacks? Fumbles? Not accounted for.

Against Kansas City three weeks ago, Tim Tebow completed just 2 of 8 passes for 69 yards and a touchdown. His passer rating was over 100. Do you think he played better than Matt Moore did yesterday? Because I sure don't. I saw that game, and Tebow was absolutely brutal. Three of those eight pass attempts sailed off about ten yards away from his receiver.

And correlation does not equal causation. Teams don't win games because their QB has a higher passer rating, that's just silly. Tom Brady's passer rating against Dallas wasn't as good as Matt Moore's, but the Patriots won that game because Tom Brady led his team down the field and threw a nice touchdown pass at the end of the game.

You're just completely wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. Here's a hint, if you're arguing with everyone else in the world, you might be the person who is wrong.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 12:18 PM
Tony Romo 78.8 Matt Moore 99.5, who got the win? Who gives a flying crap about a stupid number that is effected more by not throwing a pic, then inability to score TD's in 4 trips in the redzone and gift wrapping 7 points for the other team. That sure is a pretty number though, it served him well.

So you think Romo is going to get far if he continues to have a 78.8 rating ? You are missing the point completely, but I'm not surprised.

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 12:19 PM
By the way Dan Marino has a career 86.4 QBR, man he sucked!

and boom goes the dynamite...argument over

Phinatic8u
11-25-2011, 12:20 PM
And by no means is the best rookie qb ever.

Stupid Panther fans.

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 12:20 PM
No, it doesn't. It doesn't mean that at all. The passer rating statistic is a FORMULA that does not factor in ANYTHING except for the raw numbers. Dropped passes? Errant throws? Sacks? Fumbles? Not accounted for.

Against Kansas City three weeks ago, Tim Tebow completed just 2 of 8 passes for 69 yards and a touchdown. His passer rating was over 100. Do you think he played better than Matt Moore did yesterday? Because I sure don't. I saw that game, and Tebow was absolutely brutal. Three of those eight pass attempts sailed off about ten yards away from his receiver.

And correlation does not equal causation. Teams don't win games because their QB has a higher passer rating, that's just silly. Tom Brady's passer rating against Dallas wasn't as good as Matt Moore's, but the Patriots won that game because Tom Brady led his team down the field and threw a nice touchdown pass at the end of the game.

You're just completely wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. Here's a hint, if you're arguing with everyone else in the world, you might be the person who is wrong.

ouch...

67Stang
11-25-2011, 12:21 PM
Jesus Christ. If he's rating is better, it means he mad more clutch throws, than all that other QB's. My god. It really can't be this bad.

Did you see the throw's to HArtline? How bout the one to Marshall that wasn't clutch? Or the one to Fasano? So in 4 quarters you didn't see any clutch throws from MAtt is that what you are going to sit here and tell me ?

---------- Post added at 11:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------



And I'm the one that's not logical? You can't possibly be serious..

No it doesn't. QBR is a formula based on completion %, passing yardage, TD's, and ints. It has nothing to do with the style of play. It does not factor in clutch plays, gift wrapped TDs off of fumbles, lack of TDs in trips to the redzone....ect. Man, bashing people when you need to get eductated!

Limitations As mentioned, both the NFL and NCAA passer rating formulae are only based on completion percentage, passing yardage, touchdowns, and interceptions. As the NFL notes, "It is important to remember that the system is used to rate passers, not quarterbacks. Statistics do not reflect leadership, play-calling, and other intangible factors that go into making a successful professional quarterback."[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passer_rating#cite_note-NFLQBRating-2) For example, it does not factor in rushing yards gained by such quarterbacks as Randall Cunningham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Cunningham), Steve Young (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Young), Michael Vick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Vick), and John Elway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Elway), who were also known for their running ability. Nor does it measure a quarterback's win-loss record, how many times he has fumbled or been sacked, or evaluate his leadership and performance during different situations.
In 2011, the American sports network ESPN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN) developed an alternative statistic called the total quarterback rating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_quarterback_rating) which purports to more accurately measure quarterbacks' contribution to their teams' winning.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passer_rating#cite_note-4)

Ilovemyfins4eva
11-25-2011, 12:21 PM
So you think Romo is going to get far if he continues to have a 78.8 rating ? You are missing the point completely, but I'm not surprised.not that i think qbr rating means that u had a great game, but its funny how he thinks that does not matter ( and he may be right to an extent with that) but earlier in the thread hes ripping on moore for only having 1 300 yard game in his career, indicating he thinks that is a big factor in whether u win games or not throwing for 300 yds.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 12:24 PM
No, it doesn't. It doesn't mean that at all. The passer rating statistic is a FORMULA that does not factor in ANYTHING except for the raw numbers. Dropped passes? Errant throws? Sacks? Fumbles? Not accounted for.

Against Kansas City three weeks ago, Tim Tebow completed just 2 of 8 passes for 69 yards and a touchdown. His passer rating was over 100. Do you think he played better than Matt Moore did yesterday? Because I sure don't. I saw that game, and Tebow was absolutely brutal. Three of those eight pass attempts sailed off about ten yards away from his receiver.

And correlation does not equal causation. Teams don't win games because their QB has a higher passer rating, that's just silly. Tom Brady's passer rating against Dallas wasn't as good as Matt Moore's, but the Patriots won that game because Tom Brady led his team down the field and threw a nice touchdown pass at the end of the game.

You're just completely wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. Here's a hint, if you're arguing with everyone else in the world, you might be the person who is wrong.

I never once said the QBR is the only reason teams win. I said it has a direct correlation to winning. If you ask any body the direct effects of Long-Term good QB rating, they will tell you how important it is. Most of the Elite Qb's have good to great QB ratings. Is that end all be all? no? But it's an important factor. And how do you figure I'm arguing with everyone? And I never once said I couldn't be wrong. I'm posting on this thread about Moore and making my argument as to why I don't think he played that poorly.

And while we are it, you do realize when they had to have Tebow throw towards the end how well he threw the ball to lead that come back right? You do realize he was completing those passes right? And you don't think those complete passes were going to count? Or because he played so poorly before, let's just not counted to good passes to help is overall rating. It's a 60 minute game. He's rating sucked up until that point, but it was increased because of how well he played at the end.

Etuoo33
11-25-2011, 12:24 PM
Just in case anybody thinks Moore is the answer, just review the game tape from the Dallas game and see the throws he missed that could have given us the win. I rest my case.

Vaark
11-25-2011, 12:24 PM
and boom goes the dynamite...argument over

Not necessarily when you consider that Dan played when men were men, before WRs were hog tied and QBs cordoned off and put into skirts :idk: Dan playing in "the modern era" with the Marks would have been good for another 15QBRs easy.

J. David Wannyheimer
11-25-2011, 12:25 PM
You would think that Dolphins fans of all people would understand that passer rating doesn't really measure everything that a QB brings to the table. Chad Pennington's career passer rating was higher than Dan Marino's. Was Chad Pennington a better QB?

Beep boop, does not compute.



I never once said the QBR is the only reason teams win. I said it has a direct correlation to winning. If you ask any body the direct effects of Long-Term good QB rating, they will tell you how important it is. Most of the Elite Qb's have good to great QB ratings. Is that end all be all? no? But it's an important factor. And how do you figure I'm arguing with everyone? And I never once said I couldn't be wrong. I'm posting on this thread about Moore and making my argument as to why I don't think he played that poorly.

Keep digging. NFL's gonna be big in China in 30 years.

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 12:25 PM
I see Cam every weekend. He is a good rookie, but he isnt a winner. He cares to much about the camara or his stupid *** TD celebration.

He needs to get his *** back to the bench and stop throwing ******* INTs. Cant stand when losers celebrate.

sorry but this reeks of an agenda on your part...

Ilovemyfins4eva
11-25-2011, 12:27 PM
why do all these moronic threads go so many pages?

one thread a few weeks ago after just 5 games had been started by him as a fin titled '' moore is horrible'' goes like 40 pages, and now another thread ''matt moore is easily the mvp'' when ya even the people who love moore including myself ever said he was mvp caliber, will prob go 25 plus. boy do people need attention this badly.

67Stang
11-25-2011, 12:27 PM
not that i think qbr rating means that u had a great game, but its funny how he thinks that does not matter ( and he may be right to an extent with that) but earlier in the thread hes ripping on moore for only having 1 300 yard game in his career, indicating he thinks that is a big factor in whether u win games or not throwing for 300 yds.
There you go again turning other peoples posts into something they aren't saying at all. You need to move the ball to win, especially with the game on the line. 3/4 of his games are less than 200 yards. That is not a Franchise QB, that is a QB who needs a consistent help and near perfect play every game to win, especially against better teams.

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 12:28 PM
Not necessarily when you consider that Dan played when men were men, before WRs were hog tied and QBs cordoned off and put into skirts :idk: Dan playing in "the modern era" with the Marks would have been good for another 15QBRs easy.

no doubt...everythings catered to the qbs now a days...no doubt...from the no touch rules to the hands off the pass receivers

but someone quotes chad pennington as having a better qb rating than marino career wise and i think that just puts in perspective how little value a qbr really is in the overall grand scheme of things...

if it doesn't it should...

tylerdolphin
11-25-2011, 12:32 PM
See how much of a liar you are? Please show me one post where I mentioned **** about the ****ing playoffs? Show me? It's sad you have to result to making **** up when you have nothing to say.

And show me where I've not been logical or objective please do?


Seek help. lmao. Something is really wrong with you.


And you absolutely have that right. But I caution you to temper your enthusiam because. Its only a quarter of the season so far. And when we beat San Diego, than the Jets than the Broncos, just please come back.


Wow, who cares about QB rating hunh? LMAO. You do realize QB rating directly results into winning right? You do know the top 9 highest rate QB right now all having winning records or leading their division right ?


Anyways, this is how I look at it. After Sunday when we beat the Bolts. We get a bye week before we go up to NY to kick the Jets Arses. Than we come home to face the Broncos. That would put us at 3-3 with 10 games to go.

Now, looking at the rest of our division. I think the schedules gets pretty difficult for the JEts, NE and Bills. So in three weeks we can be right back in the thick of things.

Totally objective and rational.

Ilovemyfins4eva
11-25-2011, 12:32 PM
There you go again turning other peoples posts into something they aren't saying at all. You need to move the ball to win, especially with the game on the line. 3/4 of his games are less than 200 yards. That is not a Franchise QB, that is a QB who needs a consistent help and near perfect play every game to win, especially against better teams.wow, just wow. 2 of his most efficent games as a fin, vs the bills he threw for only 160 but 3 tds, and went 14-20. vs the chiefs he threw for 244 yds and 3 tds. both not 300 yd games. does that mean he didnt move the ball well?

geez, would u rather a qb throw for 350 yds 2 tds and 2 int and lose, or throw for 170 yds 3 tds and win? our former qb had a chunk of 300 plus yd games, how many of those ended in wins?

Jersey DolFan
11-25-2011, 12:33 PM
i dont really understand dolphins fans.

i love dan marino. what dolphins fan doesnt? BUT my prized throwback is a bob greise jersey!

Dan is the apitome (sp?) of what you all call out as not good enough on this board. great stats, flashy numbers, no championships. only went to one super bowl.

you would think dolphins fans would like game managing type qbs given our history. but i guess not. im not saying moore is "the answer" but what the heck constitutes the "answer" different formulas work for different teams. this season has been a wash. but even with the kid we draft, you act like anyone we draft is going to be a gun slinger, what if they are actually more of a game manager type themselves?

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 12:34 PM
crazys argument got shot full of holes and now he's looking for a way out by trying to take the topic in a different direction...sorry but thats how this whole thing reads to me

67Stang
11-25-2011, 12:36 PM
wow, just wow. 2 of his most efficent games as a fin, vs the bills he threw for only 160 but 3 tds, and went 14-20. vs the chiefs he threw for 244 yds and 3 tds. both not 300 yd games. does that mean he didnt move the ball well?

geez, would u rather a qb throw for 350 yds 2 tds and 2 int and lose, or throw for 170 yds 3 tds and win? our former qb had a chunk of 300 plus yd games, how many of those ended in wins?
Waiting for you to list a good team, and one of those wins came with how many turnovers in the opponents territory? Ya thanks.

J. David Wannyheimer
11-25-2011, 12:40 PM
i dont really understand dolphins fans.

i love dan marino. what dolphins fan doesnt? BUT my prized throwback is a bob greise jersey!

Dan is the apitome (sp?) of what you all call out as not good enough on this board. great stats, flashy numbers, no championships. only went to one super bowl.

you would think dolphins fans would like game managing type qbs given our history. but i guess not. im not saying moore is "the answer" but what the heck constitutes the "answer" different formulas work for different teams. this season has been a wash. but even with the kid we draft, you act like anyone we draft is going to be a gun slinger, what if they are actually more of a game manager type themselves?

It's almost as if the game has changed significantly since the 1970s and teams now utilize the passing game differently, particularly the short passing game. It's almost as if there have been significant rule changes that make it impossible for defensive backs to actually play defense past five yards. And if I didn't know better, I'd think that the rule change that makes it illegal to hit a defenseless receiver means that guys are actually able to go over the middle of the field with near impunity these days.

It's almost as if the Bears have the most productive tailback in the NFL and they won't pay him more than the league minimum because they know that they can just plug in another guy to do about the same thing once they've used that guy up. If I didn't know better, I'd think they could get away with that because they have Jay Cutler, a legitimately good QB who can win games for them with 'flashy stats' and a cannon arm.

Game manager QB = caveman football mentality.

tylerdolphin
11-25-2011, 12:40 PM
And I'm the one that's not logical? You can't possibly be serious. This is one of the most childish points to ever bring up. Cuz everyone in the grandma's know better and you should to, before even making that point. That's the best you got? Nothing else?

I never once brought on Dan's name. But I guess you always have that card in your pocket, throw it out when ever you deemed fit.

Youre the one whos throwing out QB Rating as the end all be all stat...

Ilovemyfins4eva
11-25-2011, 12:42 PM
Waiting for you to list a good team, and one of those wins came with how many turnovers in the opponents territory? Ya thanks.wow, good comeback. look, we should just stop arguing because u wont admit that u hate moore. i went back today and looked at some henne threads and after games ( like a game like yesterday for example where we may have not lit the scoreboard up but the defense had a chance to make a stand and win) u were defending henne for the same exact thing u r bashing moore on. and please dont respond " this isnt about henne" because the fact of the matter is it seems like you want moore to fail so badly, and whenever he fails u r happy. u may deny it, but just reading what you write, although u dont actually state the words '' i want moore to fail'' u deff seem happy when he does not have his best game.

this whole argument never would have started if all u did was rather than create ur own thread to let everyone know ur agenda about how '' moore is horrible'', which by the way, whether u think hes not the franchise qb or not, hes deff not horrible, far from horrible actually, instead just stating how moore has played well vs poor teams, but i want to see what he can do vs a good team. that is all u needed to do, but when u took it so far to go specifically out of ur way to bash moore, u cant say that u want him to succeed, because everything points to the opposite.

P.S, its funny how u always bring up i want to see him face a good team. first of all, he does not make the schedule, this is not college football.

secondly, by your account then its a lose lose for more. either a- he plays well vs a bad team, which he is, but he beat a bad team so it does not show anything, or B- He plays below average vs a bad team and he sucks because of it. lose lose for moore.

tylerdolphin
11-25-2011, 12:42 PM
i dont really understand dolphins fans.

i love dan marino. what dolphins fan doesnt? BUT my prized throwback is a bob greise jersey!

Dan is the apitome (sp?) of what you all call out as not good enough on this board. great stats, flashy numbers, no championships. only went to one super bowl.

you would think dolphins fans would like game managing type qbs given our history. but i guess not. im not saying moore is "the answer" but what the heck constitutes the "answer" different formulas work for different teams. this season has been a wash. but even with the kid we draft, you act like anyone we draft is going to be a gun slinger, what if they are actually more of a game manager type themselves?

Different times. Nowadays its much harder to win with a game manager and running the ball 30 or 40 times.

Vaark
11-25-2011, 12:47 PM
Either way Stang, as a litmus test on your objectivity, hopefully you would concede that unlike his predecessor, at the least Moore has played well-enough to earn him the 2012 back up position. Correct? :up:

tylerdolphin
11-25-2011, 12:51 PM
Honestly, I wouldnt even mind seeing Moore start out next year assuming we address the QB position long term in the first. He has done better than any of us probably expected.

67Stang
11-25-2011, 12:56 PM
wow, good comeback. look, we should just stop arguing because u wont admit that u hate moore. i went back today and looked at some henne threads and after games ( like a game like yesterday for example where we may have not lit the scoreboard up but the defense had a chance to make a stand and win) u were defending henne for the same exact thing u r bashing moore on. and please dont respond " this isnt about henne" because the fact of the matter is it seems like you want moore to fail so badly, and whenever he fails u r happy. u may deny it, but just reading what you write, although u dont actually state the words '' i want moore to fail'' u deff seem happy when he does not have his best game.

this whole argument never would have started if all u did was rather than create ur own thread to let everyone know ur agenda about how '' moore is horrible'', which by the way, whether u think hes not the franchise qb or not, hes deff not horrible, far from horrible actually, instead just stating how moore has played well vs poor teams, but i want to see what he can do vs a good team. that is all u needed to do, but when u took it so far to go specifically out of ur way to bash moore, u cant say that u want him to succeed, because everything points to the opposite.

P.S, its funny how u always bring up i want to see him face a good team. first of all, he does not make the schedule, this is not college football.

secondly, by your account then its a lose lose for more. either a- he plays well vs a bad team, which he is, but he beat a bad team so it does not show anything, or B- He plays below average vs a bad team and he sucks because of it. lose lose for moore.

You seriously have no idea what you are talking about, none.

Nothing would please me more than for Matt Moore to start playing better against the better teams, stop fumbling the damn ball, and to finish strong as to where we didn't need to spend our #1 on a QB as we need help in a lot of places (QB right now is most important). However, with basically half a season under his belt as a starter, he is not even close to a guy that I think can help us make the playoffs. I can say the same for Henne. That leaves us either drafting a QB, or maybe landing Brees or Manning, which would be hard but not impossible with upcoming scenarios.

Ya, I hate Moore alright. There is a HUGE difference between hating a guy and knowing he is not a starting caliber QB. I was pulling for him today and if you read my posts you will see that instead of spouting psycho babble!

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 12:59 PM
No it doesn't. QBR is a formula based on completion %, passing yardage, TD's, and ints. It has nothing to do with the style of play. It does not factor in clutch plays, gift wrapped TDs off of fumbles, lack of TDs in trips to the redzone....ect. Man, bashing people when you need to get eductated!

Mark Sanchez 88.7 (Had less completions, no TD against Dallas Moore didn't have a better game then him?

Limitations As mentioned, both the NFL and NCAA passer rating formulae are only based on completion percentage, passing yardage, touchdowns, and interceptions. As the NFL notes, "It is important to remember that the system is used to rate passers, not quarterbacks. Statistics do not reflect leadership, play-calling, and other intangible factors that go into making a successful professional quarterback."[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passer_rating#cite_note-NFLQBRating-2) For example, it does not factor in rushing yards gained by such quarterbacks as Randall Cunningham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Cunningham), Steve Young (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Young), Michael Vick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Vick), and John Elway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Elway), who were also known for their running ability. Nor does it measure a quarterback's win-loss record, how many times he has fumbled or been sacked, or evaluate his leadership and performance during different situations.
In 2011, the American sports network ESPN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN) developed an alternative statistic called the total quarterback rating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_quarterback_rating) which purports to more accurately measure quarterbacks' contribution to their teams' winning.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passer_rating#cite_note-4)

I know how the QBR rating is calculated. And you didn't have to bring Wikepedia to tell me. But MAtt Moore had a better game against the cowboys, Than Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, Tavaris, A.j Jeffeley, and Grossman,. That's my argument.

Ilovemyfins4eva
11-25-2011, 01:01 PM
You seriously have no idea what you are talking about, none.


Ya, I hate Moore alright. There is a HUGE difference between hating a guy and knowing he is not a starting caliber QB. I was pulling for him today and if you read my posts you will see that instead of spouting psycho babble!yup, none,no idea. get ****ing real, u bring up one quote u said and that is ur argument?


as i said, we had plenty of games like yesterday with henne, and when i went back and read ur thoughts after those games, all i read was, our oc sucks, its not all hennes faults, etc. when moore has the same exact situation for a game, its on to bashing moore. u ****ing hate moore, get over it. its not that u just dont want him to be our starting qb, u wish henne was prob playing now instead of moore.

then again why am i arguing with someone who all he did was defend henne to death while he was playing for us.

btw, if we do have a new starter next year, how many games does he have to play poorly until u start a thread '' blank is horrible''?

67Stang
11-25-2011, 01:05 PM
These dudes crack me up on here. We have a QB who is 3-5 in games he started or played almost the whole game, has yet to beat a solid team, was 0 for 4 in the redzone today, fumbled (9 times in 8 games) leading to an easy TD for Dallas with less than a minute to go in the half, can't score off of 2 ints and great field posistion, missed easy throws all over the place that could have won the game, and couldn't sustain a drive with the game on the line. With that, there are many that question his ability to be a consistent starter, and for that we have to hate him right? It has to be we hate him, it can't be his losing record or the fact he can't beat a good team. No, it just has to be because we hate him. LMAO!

67Stang
11-25-2011, 01:09 PM
I am done dealing with this silliness for one night, may your day be as good as Matt Moore's QBR!

Ilovemyfins4eva
11-25-2011, 01:18 PM
I am done dealing with this silliness for one night, may your day be as good as Matt Moore's QBR!good, i was just going to say, its not even worth getting into arguments anymore, because i feel one way, u feel another, its not going anywhere.

i feel u have hate for the guy, u say otherwise, its the same thing between me and u back and fourth, its just not worth it anymore on this topic specifically because we are not getting anywhere.

have a good day sir.

JCane
11-25-2011, 01:23 PM
I know how the QBR rating is calculated. And you didn't have to bring Wikepedia to tell me. But MAtt Moore had a better game against the cowboys, Than Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, Tavaris, A.j Jeffeley, and Grossman,. That's my argument.

Mark Sanchez
Tavaris Jackson
AJ Feeley
Rex Grossman

All NFL MVP caliber and Super Bowl contending QB's.

rent this space
11-25-2011, 01:26 PM
Mark Sanchez
Tavaris Jackson
AJ Feeley
Rex Grossman

All NFL MVP caliber and Super Bowl contending QB's.
lol, that's what I was thinking. maybe we should aim higher?

JCane
11-25-2011, 01:33 PM
I mean don't get me wrong, Matt Moore has played WORLDS better than I ever expected him to. I mean this dude looks like he actually knows how to play football. He still has his "moments" and if we stuck with him rather than drafting a QB then to me, he looks like a duplicate of Jay Fiedler. And if you guys are fine with that then that's your problem. But don't expect Matt Moore to go out and beat dudes like Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger...or even Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley. He's not going to take us to a Super Bowl.

hooshoops
11-25-2011, 01:39 PM
damn...moores got 9 fumbles in 8 games??? another issue...ball handling and security

Phinatic8u
11-25-2011, 01:41 PM
sorry but this reeks of an agenda on your part...

Agenda? Not at all. I just hate when players, especially on a losing team celebrate a TD.

Cams an amazing talent, not doubting that. But sometimes he just needs to chill out with all the celbrating ****. There 2-8, he has more ints than passing TDs. I know he has 9 rushing TDs but that doesnt mean he is a great qb. And I live in Panther country all i here about is how he is the best rookie QB ever. Dont buy it, and Panther fans dont know good qb oplay.

J. David Wannyheimer
11-25-2011, 01:59 PM
damn...moores got 9 fumbles in 8 games??? another issue...ball handling and security

How many of those are from blind side hits? It's got to be most of them. The guy just can't feel the rush.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 02:17 PM
Mark Sanchez
Tavaris Jackson
AJ Feeley
Rex Grossman

All NFL MVP caliber and Super Bowl contending QB's.

That's not the point. Considering how much of an unknown commodity Matt Moore is, all those Qb's are starting NFL qb's at one point or another. I just giving some points as to his performance. I know those Qb's are not that good, I'm just saying he didnt play as bad as them.

I swear, sometimes you act like a little child. You know damn well, I that's not the argument I was trying to make..

JCane
11-25-2011, 02:41 PM
That's not the point. Considering how much of an unknown commodity Matt Moore is, all those Qb's are starting NFL qb's at one point or another. I just giving some points as to his performance. I know those Qb's are not that good, I'm just saying he didnt play as bad as them.

I swear, sometimes you act like a little child. You know damn well, I that's not the argument I was trying to make..

You should probably relax.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 02:44 PM
You should probably relax.

Want me to relax? Really? Everything I say you have to come back with some stupid ****ing rant. Every ****ing time and you want me to relax? Yeah that's fair..

JCane
11-25-2011, 02:48 PM
What I posted was hardly a rant.

Matt Moore is essentially Mark Sanchez, Tavaris Jackson, AJ Feeley, etc.

J. David Wannyheimer
11-25-2011, 02:54 PM
Want me to relax? Really? Everything I say you have to come back with some stupid ****ing rant. Every ****ing time and you want me to relax? Yeah that's fair..

Dude, it's a message board. When you post things, other people, who disagree with you, post things to the contrary.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 02:56 PM
What I posted was hardly a rant.

Matt Moore is essentially Mark Sanchez, Tavaris Jackson, AJ Feeley, etc.

Well, right now the facts, are that he his clearly playing better then them right now, how long will that continue, not sure. But I've watched enough QB's to know, Moore is probably only going to get better. I think he has a higher ceiling than the qb's mentioned above. I'll be in the minority on that one.

And I like the fact, how no one is even mentioning the short week he had to deal with. But it's cool we have Oakland in two weeks, we shall see how he performs. And I'm going to look forward to all the excuses that's going to be made about his performances if he continues to play well.

And I can't make this up. I know some don't want to believe passer rating really means ****. But if someone would have told me at the beginning of the season, Moore would have a better rating than M.Vick, M.Ryan, P. Rives, Cutler, M.Sanchez, J Flacco, while throwing for less interceptions, higher completion percentage, Just as much or not more YPA, as well as to being sacked just as much. Have two games where he threw 3td's to no INt. 3 games of at least 4 games of a 90 or higher Passer rating, I would have thought they were crazy.

I'm believing in what me eyes are seeing, the stats back me up as validation to how well mad as perform so far.

JCane
11-25-2011, 03:00 PM
Dallas had a short week to deal with as well. Plus they were coming off an overtime game with a division rival.

But you knew that being into gambling and all.

;)

theguy
11-25-2011, 03:09 PM
Well, right now the facts, are that he his clearly playing better then them right now, how long will that continue, not sure. But I've watched enough QB's to know, Moore is probably only going to get better. I think he has a higher ceiling than the qb's mentioned above. I'll be in the minority on that one.

And I like the fact, how no one is even mentioning the short week he had to deal with. But it's cool we have Oakland in two weeks, we shall see how he performs. And I'm going to look forward to all the excuses that's going to be made about his performances if he continues to play well.

What does this even mean? We're suppose to be excited that Moore is playing better than the bottom rung of the league? How long will Moores play continue to be better than Tavaris Jackson? No one needs to watch other QB's to know that you can play better than the QB's mentioned above. I'd say 75% of the league is better than the QB's mentioned above. Basically you're saying Moore will not be among the worst in the league. I also saw that you removed Sexy Rexy from the list of QB's. It's sad that we have to hide Rex Grossman from a list of QB's we hope our own would play better than or have a higher ceiling in comparison.

No one is mentioning the short week because both teams had a short week. Matt Moore can't deal with a short week like Romo can deal with it? Well hopefully we never get scheduled on thursdays again. That would be an automatic L...

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 04:23 PM
What does this even mean? We're suppose to be excited that Moore is playing better than the bottom rung of the league? How long will Moores play continue to be better than Tavaris Jackson? No one needs to watch other QB's to know that you can play better than the QB's mentioned above. I'd say 75% of the league is better than the QB's mentioned above. Basically you're saying Moore will not be among the worst in the league. I also saw that you removed Sexy Rexy from the list of QB's. It's sad that we have to hide Rex Grossman from a list of QB's we hope our own would play better than or have a higher ceiling in comparison.

No one is mentioning the short week because both teams had a short week. Matt Moore can't deal with a short week like Romo can deal with it? Well hopefully we never get scheduled on thursdays again. That would be an automatic L...

What I'm trying to say is Dallas Defense has been pretty good. Looking at how the other QB's fared against their Defense, Moore performance was not that bad. That's what I'm saying. all that other **** you screaming about, I can't help you on that. Yeah Dallas O has been together for almost 4 years now, so the short week, would have have the same negative effect it would have on Moore, who's only been in this offense for a very short time.

2413fanphins
11-25-2011, 04:34 PM
What I'm trying to say is Dallas Defense has been pretty good. Looking at how the other QB's fared against their Defense, Moore performance was not that bad. That's what I'm saying. all that other **** you screaming about, I can't help you on that. Yeah Dallas O has been together for almost 4 years now, so the short week, would have have the same negative effect it would have on Moore, who's only been in this offense for a very short time.

ya but dude... the problem with your argument is your comparing our team/quarterback to teams that are the likes of washington, st.louis, buffalo, seattle.... these teams are not good. and their quarterbacks aren't all that good. hell even sanchez's team found a way to win. those four teams are the teams who played similar to ours yesterday. The teams that beat dallas, have quarterbacks who take advantage of turnovers and put points up is who WE WANT/NEED to start being compared too.. teams like philly 34-7,detroit 34-30. san fransisco, 27-24although dallas won..

and just how many weeks does this ****in moore guy need to get comfortable with this offense... he's seen the playbook all year, and has been the starter for 8 games... do we run a complicated *** system that nobody can pick up on or what.

IluvJuMiami
11-25-2011, 05:10 PM
We lost on Thursday because of Matt Moore and we won 3 games solely because of Matt Moore? And it's either one or the other or both? And your either elated that your team is suffering or ecstatic that we may have a service able QB?

Our record could never be MOORE embarrassing than this fanbase. I know it's called the jungle but even a monkey f@$%ing a football looks better than the majority of posts in this thread.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 07:03 PM
Dude, it's a message board. When you post things, other people, who disagree with you, post things to the contrary.

I know that. But to post things like write things up to prove a point that has no direct corelation to the point I'm trying to make make it right?.

theguy
11-25-2011, 07:52 PM
We lost on Thursday because of Matt Moore and we won 3 games solely because of Matt Moore? And it's either one or the other or both? And your either elated that your team is suffering or ecstatic that we may have a service able QB?

Our record could never be MOORE embarrassing than this fanbase. I know it's called the jungle but even a monkey f@$%ing a football looks better than the majority of posts in this thread.

What's embarrassing isn't how the fans fervently defend their positions (it shows we have great passion for this team), but that once we've made up our minds we are unable to see the contrary. When someone decided they were a Henne supporter, they defended him despite his lack of on field production. When Tony Sporano was labeled a conservative coach, he would never be able to change that despite his best efforts. Matt Moore is developing a similar faction of fanatical phin supporters. Arguments against Moore aren't anti dolphins, but are trying to curb expectations and not lose sight that we're facing a draft with one of the deepest QB classes coming up in years.

I personally have been impressed with Moore's play recently, but to say he was not a large factor in why we lost against Dallas means you've already become a fanatical Moore supporter or you don't care to see the facts.

Matt Moore was directly involved in 3 plays that had scoring implications. I posted this in another thread, but I feel it's a significant point that it needs to be reiterated.

He botched a snap that took us out of FG range. He botched a snap that led to the turnover that gifted Dallas 7 pts. He took a sack for a loss of 8 yards that set up the missed 47yard fg attempt. It's no guarantee, but a 39 yard attempt probably goes through the uprights. Here are the links to see that the snaps were chest level and hit him in the hands:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8246f149/No-field-goal-for-you
(http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8246f149/No-field-goal-for-you)http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8246faa4/Another-bad-snap
(http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8246faa4/Another-bad-snap)
13 points. These weren't "make an accurate throw!" or "hit the wide open wr! can't you see him!" plays. These were keep your eye on the ball and know your situation plays. I don't want to make this game about 3 plays, but the scoring implications are hard to ignore. There was also all the inaccurate throws, missed running lanes, etc. but we seem to dance circles around those arguments. Matt Didn't lose the game by himself, but he had a large hand in why we lost.

BTW, I just read this thread front to back and the fanatical supporters that are spouting Matt stats are out of control lol.

"The past 4 games, Moore has been more succsesful than Henne in redzone. Ever. 11 TDs on 14 trips is amazingly good."
This is impossible considering we were 0-4 yesterday.

"7TDs to 1INT. Matt can ball!"
Tim Tebow.

retarmyfinfan
11-25-2011, 07:53 PM
an average QB.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 08:08 PM
[QUOTE=2413fanphins;1064113429]ya but dude... the problem with your argument is your comparing our team/quarterback to teams that are the likes of washington, st.louis, buffalo, seattle.... these teams are not good. and their quarterbacks aren't all that good. hell even sanchez's team found a way to win. those four teams are the teams who played similar to ours yesterday. The teams that beat dallas, have quarterbacks who take advantage of turnovers and put points up is who WE WANT/NEED to start being compared too.. teams like philly 34-7,detroit 34-30. san fransisco, 27-24although dallas won..

Who's comparing teams, I'm simply comparing a young Qb with just 21 games under his belt performance against past performance by other qb's playing the exact same Defense. All I'm saying is the Moore, didn't fare as bad as the Qb's that played Cowboys before him. How many more times do you want me to say that...

Am I ****ing making up the fact he ended up having the second highest rated game for a quarterback against the Rob Ryan Defense all year ?

Did I Once compare the Dolphins to the Redskins or any other team???

tylerdolphin
11-25-2011, 09:01 PM
ya but dude... the problem with your argument is your comparing our team/quarterback to teams that are the likes of washington, st.louis, buffalo, seattle.... these teams are not good. and their quarterbacks aren't all that good. hell even sanchez's team found a way to win. those four teams are the teams who played similar to ours yesterday. The teams that beat dallas, have quarterbacks who take advantage of turnovers and put points up is who WE WANT/NEED to start being compared too.. teams like philly 34-7,detroit 34-30. san fransisco, 27-24although dallas won..

Who's comparing teams, I'm simply comparing a young Qb with just 21 games under his belt performance against past performance by other qb's playing the exact same Defense. All I'm saying is the Moore, didn't fare as bad as the Qb's that played Cowboys before him. How many more times do you want me to say that...

Am I ****ing making up the fact he ended up having the second highest rated game for a quarterback against the Rob Ryan Defense all year ?

Did I Once compare the Dolphins to the Redskins or any other team???

QB rating doesnt account for fumbles and sacks. Takes those into account and add the red zone failures and Moore really didnt have a great day at all.

tylerdolphin
11-25-2011, 09:06 PM
I know that. But to post things like write things up to prove a point that has no direct corelation to the point I'm trying to make make it right?.

He pointed out that the bar you were using to measure the performance was very low. Thats irrelevant? lol ok.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 09:25 PM
QB rating doesnt account for fumbles and sacks. Takes those into account and add the red zone failures and Moore really didnt have a great day at all.

He didn't make up for that by completing key passes in key situations to give us the lead with less than five minutes to go? How bout that bomb he perfectly threw to Marshall For the Touchdown, that doesn't count as overcoming the fumble he had. Did he just completely melted after that fumble ? Or did Moore bounce back and made key completions to give us the lead?

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 09:28 PM
He pointed out that the bar you were using to measure the performance was very low. Thats irrelevant? lol ok.

What bar ? Who's setting a bar. I just looked at the performances by the Quaterbacks that Dallas faced this year and compared it to Moore. Brady and had a worst rating the Moore, but I didn't bring that up, cuz if I did I would get blame for comparing Moore to Brady..

houtz
11-25-2011, 09:30 PM
He didn't make up for that by completing key passes in key situations to give us the lead with less than five minutes to go? How bout that bomb he perfectly threw to Marshall For the Touchdown, that doesn't count as overcoming the fumble he had. Did he just completely melted after that fumble ? Or did Moore bounce back and made key completions to give us the lead?

Perfectly thrown bomb to Marshall? He under threw him terribly as if he was Chad Pennington. Marshall had the corner beat bad and Marshall had to slow down and come back for the ball. Far from a perfectly thrown ball.

Moore missed several intermediate passes that 99% of the QBs in the NFL would've made. He's a average QB that looks good when compared to the terrible QBs we've had since #13.

houtz
11-25-2011, 09:31 PM
What bar ? Who's setting a bar. I just looked at the performances by the Quaterbacks that Dallas faced this year and compared it to Moore. Brady and had a worst rating the Moore, but I didn't bring that up, cuz if I did I would get blame for comparing Moore to Brady..

Did Brady win? Did he set the Cowboys up for a TD because he cant handle a snap? Didn't think so.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 09:54 PM
Did Brady win? Did he set the Cowboys up for a TD because he cant handle a snap? Didn't think so.

Um I know I watch almost every NFL game, I know exactly how that game unfold. I didn't bring Brady name up just for this particular comment, and it still came up. LMAO. Boy when yall trying to prove ya point. And no Brady didn't fumble, but he did throw to costly INT in that game..

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 09:56 PM
Perfectly thrown bomb to Marshall? He under threw him terribly as if he was Chad Pennington. Marshall had the corner beat bad and Marshall had to slow down and come back for the ball. Far from a perfectly thrown ball.

Moore missed several intermediate passes that 99% of the QBs in the NFL would've made. He's a average QB that looks good when compared to the terrible QBs we've had since #13.

LMAO, that pass didn't fall right in Marshall bread basket ? Yeah I never said he didn't miss throws in that game. In the 99% comment is wrong because I just listed a few QB that didn't make those throw you are referring to against the Cowboys..

houtz
11-25-2011, 09:57 PM
Um I know I watch almost every NFL game, I know exactly how that game unfold. I didn't bring Brady name up just for this particular comment, and it still came up. LMAO. Boy when yall trying to prove ya point. And no Brady didn't fumble, but he did throw to costly INT in that game..

But he won the game.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-25-2011, 09:57 PM
But he won the game.

Oh my ****ing god!!!

67Stang
11-25-2011, 10:57 PM
Matt Moore's new nickname "Sir Fumbles-alot".

67Stang
11-25-2011, 10:58 PM
He has more fumbles than TDs.

Benzhiyi
11-25-2011, 11:13 PM
Still amazes me that so many are taking so much glee in one of their own players' perceived failure.

Distressing.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.384157,-0.195187

2413fanphins
11-25-2011, 11:24 PM
well at the end of the day I guess we can all take solace in the fact that we LOST the ****in game, but our very own matt moore had a better qbr than tony romo and tom brady when he played dallas....

Benzhiyi
11-26-2011, 05:28 AM
Perfectly thrown bomb to Marshall? He under threw him terribly as if he was Chad Pennington. Marshall had the corner beat bad and Marshall had to slow down and come back for the ball. Far from a perfectly thrown ball.

Moore missed several intermediate passes that 99% of the QBs in the NFL would've made. He's a average QB that looks good when compared to the terrible QBs we've had since #13.

99%? In a league in which last week's 28 starters included such names as John Skelton, Rex Grossman, Mark Sanchez, Joe Flacco (who've both been all over the shop all season)?

Come on now.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.384226,-0.195167

Benzhiyi
11-26-2011, 05:33 AM
well at the end of the day I guess we can all take solace in the fact that we LOST the ****in game, but our very own matt moore had a better qbr than tony romo and tom brady when he played dallas....

I'm not pleased we lost, but I'm equally proud of the performance on the road against a team headed to the play-offs when ours could have quit on the season long ago. (See Redskins, Colts, Rams etc.)

What bugs me is there are people on here watching games and clearly willing Moore to fail just so they can bleat about it on here. I'll never comprehend that.

And if we draft a QB and he has a handful of bad games to start out with, you can be damn sure the same thing will happen next year.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.384278,-0.195077

Shouright
11-26-2011, 06:07 AM
What bugs me is there are people on here watching games and clearly willing Moore to fail just so they can bleat about it on here. I'll never comprehend that.Comprehend this:

If intelligence and maturity are normally distributed in the population, that means 50% of people are below average in both.

How many of those folks do you think are represented on this message board, where the only requirement for membership is having the ability to register a username and password?

This is why in a forum this big, your "ignore" list should contain no fewer than about a hundred people: the ones who post frequently and exhibit both very poor intelligence and maturity. And unfortunately there are many.

My advice: as soon as you see a post that illustrates the disturbing qualities you're talking about, place that user on "ignore." At that point you'll never have to read anything he or she says again.

You will have also done your part to diminish useless conflict (as opposed to useful conflict) on the board, since people with poor intelligence and maturity are very unlikely to respond to reason in a discussion.

Shouright
11-26-2011, 06:11 AM
well at the end of the day I guess we can all take solace in the fact that we LOST the ****in game, but our very own matt moore had a better qbr than tony romo and tom brady when he played dallas....Actually if you like the idea that Matt Moore is performing in a way that's very strongly correlated with winning, indeed you can take solace in that.

Shouright
11-26-2011, 06:36 AM
No, it doesn't. It doesn't mean that at all. The passer rating statistic is a FORMULA that does not factor in ANYTHING except for the raw numbers. Dropped passes? Errant throws? Sacks? Fumbles? Not accounted for.Actually dropped passes and errant throws are factored in, in that they diminish one's completion percentage, which is part of the QB rating formula.

Also, there is no reason to think that significant differences exist among quarterbacks in the frequency of sacks and fumbles over the long haul. Consequently, the fact that they aren't accounted for by QB rating is meaningless in terms of its ability to distinguish among quarterbacks in a meaningful way.


And correlation does not equal causation. Teams don't win games because their QB has a higher passer ratingSure they do, insofar as QB rating is a measure of how well the quarterback plays the game. Winning and losing the vast majority of the time do depend on how the quarterback plays.


You're just completely wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. Here's a hint, if you're arguing with everyone else in the world, you might be the person who is wrong.And you might not be.

Bottom line: although Matt Moore's team may not have won the game Thursday, he personally played in a way that would typically be associated with a record somewhere between 10-6 and 13-3 over the course of a season.

In other words, if you're interested in this team's having a quarterback who can play well enough for the team to one day attain a playoff-caliber record, you can feel good about how Matt Moore played Thursday.

I could be wrong, but I'm personally convinced of my perspective on this issue, so I won't be posting in this thread after this point.

2413fanphins
11-26-2011, 10:15 AM
Actually if you like the idea that Matt Moore is performing in a way that's very strongly correlated with winning, indeed you can take solace in that.


i don't ever take solace in losing. dude had over a 90 rating in two games now that we lost. 92.6 against denver, 99.2 against dallas.

we've only won two games out of 8 where he has played lights out, and the defense played lights out. if we have to play lights out across the board, in every game, we aren't going anywhere. it just doesn't happen in the nfl where every unit dominates for a whole game.
also the 140 yards lost on sacks, and 9 fumbles is certainly a huge stumbling block, and certainly not included in the QBR. but as we've already discussed I don't give a rip about QBR.

rent this space
11-26-2011, 11:38 AM
Actually dropped passes and errant throws are factored in, in that they diminish one's completion percentage, which is part of the QB rating formula.

Also, there is no reason to think that significant differences exist among quarterbacks in the frequency of sacks and fumbles over the long haul. Consequently, the fact that they aren't accounted for by QB rating is meaningless in terms of its ability to distinguish among quarterbacks in a meaningful way.

Sure they do, insofar as QB rating is a measure of how well the quarterback plays the game. Winning and losing the vast majority of the time do depend on how the quarterback plays.

And you might not be.

Bottom line: although Matt Moore's team may not have won the game Thursday, he personally played in a way that would typically be associated with a record somewhere between 10-6 and 13-3 over the course of a season.

In other words, if you're interested in this team's having a quarterback who can play well enough for the team to one day attain a playoff-caliber record, you can feel good about how Matt Moore played Thursday.

I could be wrong, but I'm personally convinced of my perspective on this issue, so I won't be posting in this thread after this point.
So, teams that win usually have QBs with higher QBRs? Thanks for that profound thought.
Please don't leave the thread, there is so much we can learn from your incredible intelligence... lol

CRAZYDOLFAN305
11-26-2011, 02:17 PM
Actually dropped passes and errant throws are factored in, in that they diminish one's completion percentage, which is part of the QB rating formula.

Also, there is no reason to think that significant differences exist among quarterbacks in the frequency of sacks and fumbles over the long haul. Consequently, the fact that they aren't accounted for by QB rating is meaningless in terms of its ability to distinguish among quarterbacks in a meaningful way.

Sure they do, insofar as QB rating is a measure of how well the quarterback plays the game. Winning and losing the vast majority of the time do depend on how the quarterback plays.

And you might not be.

Bottom line: although Matt Moore's team may not have won the game Thursday, he personally played in a way that would typically be associated with a record somewhere between 10-6 and 13-3 over the course of a season.

In other words, if you're interested in this team's having a quarterback who can play well enough for the team to one day attain a playoff-caliber record, you can feel good about how Matt Moore played Thursday.

I could be wrong, but I'm personally convinced of my perspective on this issue, so I won't be posting in this thread after this point.

I'm glad i'm not the only sane one here on this message board. But don't worry they will come out and tell you QB rating is pointless and it doesn't matter, although the rest of the universe uses it as a measuring barometer for how a QB is playing the position.

And even if they don't like those numbers, Moore is currently #11 in ESPN Total QB rating which factors in everything. I want to hear their ****ing excuse now.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7278156/nfl-week-12-total-qbr-season-leaders

tylerdolphin
11-26-2011, 05:05 PM
Actually dropped passes and errant throws are factored in, in that they diminish one's completion percentage, which is part of the QB rating formula.

Also, there is no reason to think that significant differences exist among quarterbacks in the frequency of sacks and fumbles over the long haul. Consequently, the fact that they aren't accounted for by QB rating is meaningless in terms of its ability to distinguish among quarterbacks in a meaningful way.

Sure they do, insofar as QB rating is a measure of how well the quarterback plays the game. Winning and losing the vast majority of the time do depend on how the quarterback plays.

And you might not be.

Bottom line: although Matt Moore's team may not have won the game Thursday, he personally played in a way that would typically be associated with a record somewhere between 10-6 and 13-3 over the course of a season.

In other words, if you're interested in this team's having a quarterback who can play well enough for the team to one day attain a playoff-caliber record, you can feel good about how Matt Moore played Thursday.

I could be wrong, but I'm personally convinced of my perspective on this issue, so I won't be posting in this thread after this point.

I get what youre saying and actually agree with you to an extent. Over the long run, QBs with good ratings are generally good QBs and those guys win games. We are only talking about one game though. Its retarded to break down a QBs performace based on just QB rating for one game. There are so many factors it doesnt account for that the eye can in those 4 quarters. I can hold the botched snaps against him. I can hold the red zone failures against him. I know his play didnt reflect his QB rating. Its a direct reason we lost.

Now if Moore put up a 90.0 QBR for the season, I think thats a big enough sample size to where you arent gonna have weird fumbles and such skewing his performace much more than the average QB, so you can use QBR as more of a measuring stick. For one game though...its not all that great. Moore did not have a great game. Not sure how this argument is even going on. He wasnt horrible...but lets be real...he aquandered quite a few opportunities.

tylerdolphin
11-26-2011, 05:10 PM
I'm glad i'm not the only sane one here on this message board. But don't worry they will come out and tell you QB rating is pointless and it doesn't matter, although the rest of the universe uses it as a measuring barometer for how a QB is playing the position.

And even if they don't like those numbers, Moore is currently #11 in ESPN Total QB rating which factors in everything. I want to hear their ****ing excuse now.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7278156/nfl-week-12-total-qbr-season-leaders

Thats great...Matt moor has been playing well this season for the most part. Ill gladly admit that. And over a multiple game stretch, QBR is a pretty good barometer for how well he is playing. For one game though, its much better to use your eyes and realize he missed a lot of chances this game and had a very costly turnover. Thats just what happened man. I dont hate Matt Moore at all. Just pointing out that Thursday he was not was good as his QBR indicates for pretty obvious reasons.

Shouright
11-26-2011, 05:24 PM
I get what youre saying and actually agree with you to an extent. Over the long run, QBs with good ratings are generally good QBs and those guys win games. We are only talking about one game though. Its retarded to break down a QBs performace based on just QB rating for one game. There are so many factors it doesnt account for that the eye can in those 4 quarters. I can hold the botched snaps against him. I can hold the red zone failures against him. I know his play didnt reflect his QB rating. Its a direct reason we lost.

Now if Moore put up a 90.0 QBR for the season, I think thats a big enough sample size to where you arent gonna have weird fumbles and such skewing his performace much more than the average QB, so you can use QBR as more of a measuring stick. For one game though...its not all that great. Moore did not have a great game. Not sure how this argument is even going on. He wasnt horrible...but lets be real...he aquandered quite a few opportunities.I'll post again since someone is showing some flexibility in their thinking on the issue and is demonstrating the kind of attitude that leads to a productive discussion. That wasn't present prior to my last post.

I agree that if you restrict your analysis to one game, QB rating is much less an indicator of the quality of a QB.

However, if Matt Moore plays the way he did against Dallas for an entire season, the team is still going to lose games that are not unlike the Dallas game.

Again, the QB rating he had against Dallas is associated with a 10-6 to 13-3 record (i.e., 3 to 6 losses), not perfection.

The good thing is that he played in a way that's associated with a playoff-caliber record for a season. I don't think we need to hold him to the standard of playing in a way that's associated with an undefeated season.

If he had a 99.5 QB rating for an entire season, we would still be likely to lose 3 to 6 games, possibly because he would make the same kinds of mistakes he made against Dallas.

But we would also likely WIN 10 to 13 games that season.

My only point is that there was nothing about the Dallas game that should make one think Matt Moore can't be our quarterback of the future.

You may think that for other reasons, but you shouldn't think that based on the Dallas game alone in my opinion.

tylerdolphin
11-26-2011, 05:53 PM
I'll post again since someone is showing some flexibility in their thinking on the issue and is demonstrating the kind of attitude that leads to a productive discussion. That wasn't present prior to my last post.

I agree that if you restrict your analysis to one game, QB rating is much less an indicator of the quality of a QB.

However, if Matt Moore plays the way he did against Dallas for an entire season, the team is still going to lose games that are not unlike the Dallas game.

Again, the QB rating he had against Dallas is associated with a 10-6 to 13-3 record (i.e., 3 to 6 losses), not perfection.

The good thing is that he played in a way that's associated with a playoff-caliber record for a season. I don't think we need to hold him to the standard of playing in a way that's associated with an undefeated season.

If he had a 99.5 QB rating for an entire season, we would still be likely to lose 3 to 6 games, possibly because he would make the same kinds of mistakes he made against Dallas.

But we would also likely WIN 10 to 13 games that season.

My only point is that there was nothing about the Dallas game that should make one think Matt Moore can't be our quarterback of the future.

You may think that for other reasons, but you shouldn't think that based on the Dallas game alone in my opinion.

Yea, generally speaking, a guy with a 90 QBR rating will get a few more TDs given the same scenarios. Matt Moore himself has proven that he is capable of that in other games...he just didnt get it done for whatever reason on Thursday (maybe coaching, missed a receiver, just had one of those days, who knows). But yeah, youre right that this game by itself doesnt say much about his future. Honestly, the guy has far exceeded just about everyones expectations this year. Im hoping we address QB early in the draft and give Matt moore another whirl at least until the young guy is ready. If Moore shows that he can be the guy, thats great. Great problem to have. If he shows himself to be average, ride him for a while until the young guy is ready then trade him. Its a win/win. Honestly, Im not sure he can sustain the QBR he has been putting up the last 4 weeks, but if he does then thats great.

Vaark
11-26-2011, 06:01 PM
Well for the time being he's done considerably better than Henne has performed and better than Orton (god forbid Ross hadn't stepped in on that fiasco). Whether MM gets better or worse, remains to be seen, but personally I'd rather have him starting than the above 2 and Sanchez ... and maybe even Ryan Fitz for starters.

Everyone can piss and moan about him, lamenting the passing of their heartthrob Henne, but the fact is undeniable that at the end of the day, Moore provides the best opportunity to win (although I suspect some of the pissers&moaners are complaining exactly on account of that reality.

tylerdolphin
11-26-2011, 06:11 PM
Well for the time being he's done considerably better than Henne has performed and better than Orton (god forbid Ross hadn't stepped in on that fiasco). Whether MM gets better or worse, remains to be seen, but personally I'd rather have him starting than the above 2 and Sanchez ... and maybe even Ryan Fitz for starters.

Everyone can piss and moan about him, lamenting the passing of their heartthrob Henne, but the fact is undeniable that at the end of the day, Moore provides the best opportunity to win (although I suspect some of the pissers&moaners are complaining exactly on account of that reality.

Absolutely Moore gives us our best shot. Hes been pretty damn good the last 4 weeks when you add everything up.

And I pretty much gave up on Luck after the 1st win. Zero chance that sorry *** Colts team wins 2 games.At this point Im just hoping Matt Moor has another Chiefs/Bills level game against the Jests and puts the last nail in their playoff run. That will somewhat salvage the season for me.

rent this space
11-26-2011, 06:22 PM
Has any QB available in the offseason had a better year than Moore?

Vaark
11-26-2011, 06:23 PM
Has any QB available in the offseason had a better year than Moore?

the only one I can think of is Hasselbeck... now that you mention it... and that includes Kolb.

rent this space
11-26-2011, 06:30 PM
the only one I can think of is Hasselbeck... now that you mention it... and that includes Kolb.Funny because if I remember right, the basic consensus on the board when Moore was signed was a face palm

Shouright
11-26-2011, 06:40 PM
Yea, generally speaking, a guy with a 90 QBR rating will get a few more TDs given the same scenarios. Matt Moore himself has proven that he is capable of that in other games...he just didnt get it done for whatever reason on Thursday (maybe coaching, missed a receiver, just had one of those days, who knows). But yeah, youre right that this game by itself doesnt say much about his future. Honestly, the guy has far exceeded just about everyones expectations this year. Im hoping we address QB early in the draft and give Matt moore another whirl at least until the young guy is ready. If Moore shows that he can be the guy, thats great. Great problem to have. If he shows himself to be average, ride him for a while until the young guy is ready then trade him. Its a win/win. Honestly, Im not sure he can sustain the QBR he has been putting up the last 4 weeks, but if he does then thats great.Heck if he put up a QB rating that was 15 points less than what he has the past four weeks, that would be great.

That QB rating would be about 97, which is what Chad Pennington had when we were 11-5 and he finished second in the MVP voting.

Vaark
11-26-2011, 06:44 PM
Funny because if I remember right, the basic consensus on the board when Moore was signed was a face palm

Welcome to FH where you get dug into a position and find it impossible to admit you're wrong ("the Junk Principle"). Hell there are still a few who're arguing that the 90% of the fan base wanting the guy now bounced out of Denver with the 61 lifetime 3rd down QBR rating who won 4 out of his last 14 didn't know what they were talking about (vs the 80% who wanted Henne gone). Go figure :idk:

2413fanphins
11-26-2011, 06:57 PM
QBR would all be fine and dandy if indeed he played an entire season at a 90 QBR clip... I would also agree that if he did so, we would win 10-13 games as another poster said.

fact of the matter is he has played 8 games, and 4 of them have been over a 75 QBR some as high as 147, and 133, and the other half (4)... have been under 75 QBR.. some as low as 41 and 58......


IF he had been playing at the aforementioned 90QBR clip, we wouldn't have this thread. but he hasnt' been. and we are.

2413fanphins
11-26-2011, 06:59 PM
Welcome to FH where you get dug into a position and find it impossible to admit you're wrong ("the Junk Principle"). Hell there are still a few who're arguing that the 90% of the fan base wanting the guy now bounced out of Denver with the 61 lifetime 3rd down QBR rating who won 4 out of his last 14 didn't know what they were talking about (vs the 80% who wanted Henne gone). Go figure :idk:

is this somehow different than matt moores career 4th quarter, 54.5 QBR???? just curious.

Vaark
11-26-2011, 07:40 PM
is this somehow different than matt moores career 4th quarter, 54.5 QBR???? just curious.

well considering one guy's started 66 games with 33 of those games on a champion contender while the other less than 1/3rd of that for sub .500 teams, I'd say the former is considerably more statistically meaningful than the latter

although I'd still like to see a cite on the latter.

The Orton delusions die hard, it's amazing

2413fanphins
11-26-2011, 08:55 PM
I'm not an orton advocate at all... I know of him and I'm pretty sure he went to south east polk high school which is right down the road. Not a orton fan at all.

I got my info straight from yahoo if your wondering.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8544/situational;_ylt=Aiq7z2HcSJtJQrLR9YGr7OP.uLYF?year=career

I'm not sure why you would think I just make stats up... and I can't help the fact that one guys career is longer than the others dude... I really can't. I just got curious when you came out with a situational stat and looked up moores career numbers. I'm particularly unimpressed with his 3rd down and 3-7 yards to go QBR since QBR is the new big thing around here. Furthermore, I am underwhelmed with how he starts a game, 77.2 QBR and how he finishes a game 54.5 QBR... further cementing my opinion that we still need to fix the qb position. he's a much better qb from a QBR standpoint, when ahead than when trailing... also another redflag when talking Franchise guys...

If you look at his interception breakdown, he throws most of his int's on 1st and 3rd down. His 2 minute drill numbers are particularly underwhelming as well. Much of the reasons why a lot of guys aren't exclaiming the long term answer at qb for the franchise.

If you really look at those career numbers, I can't possibly see how any rational dude, can say, he's got it... Maybe he CAN do it, but than at the same time, you could have that opinion with just about anybody couldn't you? additionally, I don't see how anyone can say he has Earned the right to start next year... I don't think he has earned ****. 3-5?? since when does that garner a guy a promotion?
I think he should compete legitamately next year for a starters spot, and I think with a new regime that isn't tied to any one guy, he'll get a fair shake at competition.

2413fanphins
11-26-2011, 08:59 PM
taking it a step further just to point it out, for a guy who hasn't played much he sure does take a lot of sacks and fumble a ton... most of his sacks all come on 1, 2, and 3rd down with 6+ yards to go.

jury is still out though I guess. I already said I'd give him the rest of the season to judge, but I'm left very underwhelmed to this point. that 3 game stretch was nice, but as his career numbers show, he's a much better qb with a lead, and we don't have a defense that is going to pitch a shutout or hold opponents to 10 points or less all season... we just don't.

fin-atic
11-27-2011, 01:32 AM
I love how everyone is focused on the QB for this loss. Seems that defense and coaching got a free pass. I think the defense is as much to blame as anything.

Also, I think that by the time we end this season after playing the tough schedule ahead, we will know all we need to know about Matt Moore. We won't have to have 24 page debates. He will either prove himself or not.