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WesternNYDolfan
11-25-2011, 07:19 PM
Let's take a look at some "genius" head coaches:

Bill Belichick
Record before Tom Brady 41-56 0 Super Bowls
Record after Tom Brady 125-37 3 Super Bowl Championships 4 Appearances

Mike Shanahan
Record with John Elway 46-10 7-1 in the playoffs 2 Super Bowl Championships
Record without John Elway 100-95 1-4 in the playoffs

Bill Cowher (one of our supposed "saviors")
Record before Roethlisberger (I'll even count the seasons he was getting good QB play between O' Donnell and Kordell Stewart) 115-75 Playoff Record 7-8 1 Super Bowl Appearence
Record with Roethlisberger 34-14 Playoff Record 5-1 1 Super Bowl Championship
(Another factor you must consider is that Pittsburgh has retained the same philosophy in the front office for the entirety of their existence and out of their 3 Head Coaches they have never had a losing record, another check in the box of what really matters in the NFL CONTINUITY! But also notice Cowher could never get over the hump until he got Big Ben)

John Gruden (Another so called "savior")
Record with Rich Gannon and 1 Pro Bowl year from Brad Johnson 42- 22 Playoff Record 5-2 1 Super Bowl Championship
Record without either 45-51 Playoff Record 0-2


Now let's look at Tony Sparano
Record with Chad Pennington 11-5 1 AFC East Championship
Record without Chad Pennington 17-24


So do you guys still think head coach is what we need to change?? I believe he's proven he can do a good job with a good QB. Even with a weak roster that was coming off a 1-15 season, he was able to lead us to the playoffs.

So "why hasn't he or Ireland got a QB to follow up Penny??"
Well they drafted Chad Henne, who was brought into action in his second year. Henne had a winning record in his first year as a starter, and showed a ton of promise. Last year, Henne struggled, and alot of his struggles could be chalked up to a terrible offensive system. So coming into this year there was uncertainty surrounding Henne. This was his make or break year, and unfortunately despite showing a ton of promise, he broke his collarbone and probably lost any shot of ever being the Dolphins starting QB ever again.

Henne probably isn't the answer, despite his improvement this year he still showed he had trouble converting touchdowns in the red zone. He's a great 20-20 QB, but those guys don't win you games. You can bet our front office, and Sparano know this too.

So now let's look at where we stand, we're having a losing season this year despite playing highly competitive football on a week to week basis. Many of you want to chalk the losses up to Sparano, I'd say a good QB would solve our problems.

KEEP Sparano, DRAFT one of the stud QBs coming out, RESIGN Matt Moore, transition from him to the rookie QB whenever we feel the rookie is ready...that could be week 1 of next year, it could be week 1 of 2013.

The players have bought into Sparano, and our team is well coached despite what many of you think.

Look, I understand alot of you are pissed and hate losing; trust me I do too. You all feel someone needs to pay for this, and I get it. But that person shouldn't be Sparano, despite being undercut by Parcells last year, and Ross this year his players still play hard for him and that's all you can ask for in a head coach; I believe now that he's in charge of hiring coordinators he has the right people in place w/ Daboll and Nolan. Get him a QB, and we'll be in a Super Bowl, I guarantee it.

endorPHINS72
11-25-2011, 07:21 PM
Since you mentioned this in another thread, you really didn't need to start another.

WesternNYDolfan
11-25-2011, 07:24 PM
Well I delved far deeper into the thought on this thread because it is a huge point that deserves its own thread

Vaark
11-25-2011, 07:31 PM
Sorry, but I was on the ropes as soon as seeing that you've already made your point elsewhere but decided to start still another thread on the self-perception of important, novel and original content.

.. as if that wasn't enough, I bailed out after reading that Sparano is the best coach for this team :idk:

WesternNYDolfan
11-25-2011, 07:36 PM
Sorry, but I was on the ropes as soon as seeing that you've already made your point elsewhere but decided to start still another thread on the self-perception of important, novel and original content.

.. as if that wasn't enough, I bailed out after reading that Sparano is the best coach for this team :idk:

Oh I see, so you conveniently avoid reading the real substance in the post because you don't have a good argument against it, so instead you try to attack me for holding an opinion that's inconsistent with yours. You could be a politician.

BG12DM13CP10
11-25-2011, 07:38 PM
Matt Moore? I thought you said we need a QB. Just great! 2011 all over again. Sparoano has to win again, and trying to transition to the rookie oxymoron.

WesternNYDolfan
11-25-2011, 07:44 PM
Matt Moore? I thought you said we need a QB. Just great! 2011 all over again. Sparoano has to win again, and trying to transition to the rookie oxymoron.

The reason I brought up Matt Moore is because he seems to be a serviceable QB who will be a great backup, and can probably lead us to a winning season just in case the rookie we draft isn't ready next year. Now that our roster is as good as it is, we could still make the playoffs with a guy like Matt Moore...

RZA
11-25-2011, 07:48 PM
I'm reluctant to buy into this but I'm also very reluctant to blow everything up and start over.

The problems this season have been compounded by the lock-out and the transition to a new offensive scheme under Brian Daboll but the roster is deep and talented.

I agree we need a new QB and it must be a 1st round or even trade up to get our guy. The running game looks promising but we need Thomas to be the between the tackles and use Bush properly (which we have started to do)

The Defence needs another pass rusher opposite Wake and Safety help and maybe another corner but it is a good if not great.

The biggest problems to fix are QB, RG and RT and a legitimate deep threat at WR. I like Clay and think he can be our seam guy.

A good draft and FA this offseason can address all of these holes and another year of familiarity with Dabolls system and a full offseason program will help hugely.

The players seem to love Tony and whilst I concede he probably needs to go I do not advocate getting a new guy who wants to rebuild and do it his way. Tony has suspect time management and plays not to lose which will not change because he is too old school. Wake, Dansby, Starks, Burnett & co are in their prime and if we start over these guys will be over the hill before we are ready to roll thus creating new holes.

Its a patch up we need, not a rebuild, all of which can be overseen by a more aggressive HC but I am for retaing Daboll, Nolan and maybe even Ireland.

Vaark
11-25-2011, 07:49 PM
Oh I see, so you conveniently avoid reading the real substance in the post because you don't have a good argument against it, so instead you try to attack me for holding an opinion that's inconsistent with yours. You could be a politician.

For the record, what I attacked was your post, but the fact that you're taking it personally just confirms my first impressions. I've said time and again how Tony is beyond redemption as he's defended an awful OC by throwing his players under the bus for poor execution, that it takes nationally televised humiliations to goad hiim into firing his coaches, that he makes the same boneheaded field management and judgment mistakes over again which would suggest he's far from the sharpest tool in the shed and that he' reeks from the stench of spoiled Tuna which needs to be fumigated. But relevantly, you don't see me starting superfluous, redundant threads spouting what most everyone knows to be true especially considering there are ample existing ones to jump onto without being the center of attention.

WesternNYDolfan
11-25-2011, 08:04 PM
I'm reluctant to buy into this but I'm also very reluctant to blow everything up and start over.

The problems this season have been compounded by the lock-out and the transition to a new offensive scheme under Brian Daboll but the roster is deep and talented.

I agree we need a new QB and it must be a 1st round or even trade up to get our guy. The running game looks promising but we need Thomas to be the between the tackles and use Bush properly (which we have started to do)

The Defence needs another pass rusher opposite Wake and Safety help and maybe another corner but it is a good if not great.

The biggest problems to fix are QB, RG and RT and a legitimate deep threat at WR. I like Clay and think he can be our seam guy.

A good draft and FA this offseason can address all of these holes and another year of familiarity with Dabolls system and a full offseason program will help hugely.

The players seem to love Tony and whilst I concede he probably needs to go I do not advocate getting a new guy who wants to rebuild and do it his way. Tony has suspect time management and plays not to lose which will not change because he is too old school. Wake, Dansby, Starks, Burnett & co are in their prime and if we start over these guys will be over the hill before we are ready to roll thus creating new holes.

Its a patch up we need, not a rebuild, all of which can be overseen by a more aggressive HC but I am for retaing Daboll, Nolan and maybe even Ireland.

Here's my point, without Parcells Tony's team has been aggressive this year...and no matter who you hire they will inevitably have a different philosophy and we will be starting over

WesternNYDolfan
11-25-2011, 08:06 PM
For the record, what I attacked was your post, but the fact that you're taking it personally just confirms my first impressions. I've said time and again how Tony is beyond redemption as he's defended an awful OC by throwing his players under the bus for poor execution, that it takes nationally televised humiliations to goad hiim into firing his coaches, that he makes the same boneheaded field management and judgment mistakes over again which would suggest he's far from the sharpest tool in the shed and that he' reeks from the stench of spoiled Tuna which needs to be fumigated. But relevantly, you don't see me starting superfluous, redundant threads spouting what most everyone knows to be true especially considering there are ample existing ones to jump onto without being the center of attention.

Tony's mistakes are on par with the type of judgement errors Belichick makes, but the difference is of course he has a QB to win the games they need so those mistakes aren't amplified as much.

Stefins
11-25-2011, 09:53 PM
Nice post. I dont view EVERY post, so, I liked the records of these coaches.
Although, I do not agree with keeping Tony.

Jersey DolFan
11-25-2011, 10:08 PM
Let's take a look at some "genius" head coaches:

Bill Belichick
Record before Tom Brady 41-56 0 Super Bowls
Record after Tom Brady 125-37 3 Super Bowl Championships 4 Appearances

Mike Shanahan
Record with John Elway 46-10 7-1 in the playoffs 2 Super Bowl Championships
Record without John Elway 100-95 1-4 in the playoffs

Bill Cowher (one of our supposed "saviors")
Record before Roethlisberger (I'll even count the seasons he was getting good QB play between O' Donnell and Kordell Stewart) 115-75 Playoff Record 7-8 1 Super Bowl Appearence
Record with Roethlisberger 34-14 Playoff Record 5-1 1 Super Bowl Championship
(Another factor you must consider is that Pittsburgh has retained the same philosophy in the front office for the entirety of their existence and out of their 3 Head Coaches they have never had a losing record, another check in the box of what really matters in the NFL CONTINUITY! But also notice Cowher could never get over the hump until he got Big Ben)

John Gruden (Another so called "savior")
Record with Rich Gannon and 1 Pro Bowl year from Brad Johnson 42- 22 Playoff Record 5-2 1 Super Bowl Championship
Record without either 45-51 Playoff Record 0-2


Now let's look at Tony Sparano
Record with Chad Pennington 11-5 1 AFC East Championship
Record without Chad Pennington 17-24


So do you guys still think head coach is what we need to change?? I believe he's proven he can do a good job with a good QB. Even with a weak roster that was coming off a 1-15 season, he was able to lead us to the playoffs.

So "why hasn't he or Ireland got a QB to follow up Penny??"
Well they drafted Chad Henne, who was brought into action in his second year. Henne had a winning record in his first year as a starter, and showed a ton of promise. Last year, Henne struggled, and alot of his struggles could be chalked up to a terrible offensive system. So coming into this year there was uncertainty surrounding Henne. This was his make or break year, and unfortunately despite showing a ton of promise, he broke his collarbone and probably lost any shot of ever being the Dolphins starting QB ever again.

Henne probably isn't the answer, despite his improvement this year he still showed he had trouble converting touchdowns in the red zone. He's a great 20-20 QB, but those guys don't win you games. You can bet our front office, and Sparano know this too.

So now let's look at where we stand, we're having a losing season this year despite playing highly competitive football on a week to week basis. Many of you want to chalk the losses up to Sparano, I'd say a good QB would solve our problems.

KEEP Sparano, DRAFT one of the stud QBs coming out, RESIGN Matt Moore, transition from him to the rookie QB whenever we feel the rookie is ready...that could be week 1 of next year, it could be week 1 of 2013.

The players have bought into Sparano, and our team is well coached despite what many of you think.

Look, I understand alot of you are pissed and hate losing; trust me I do too. You all feel someone needs to pay for this, and I get it. But that person shouldn't be Sparano, despite being undercut by Parcells last year, and Ross this year his players still play hard for him and that's all you can ask for in a head coach; I believe now that he's in charge of hiring coordinators he has the right people in place w/ Daboll and Nolan. Get him a QB, and we'll be in a Super Bowl, I guarantee it.

i agree with you completly . you should do a break down of the "hard-nose" type coaches who have won superbowls - there are a ton.

i also think tony tried to change his philosophy this year in more ways than one which is why players had too much "fun" at practice early in the year. just alot of things stacked against the guy.

and while i completely agree with you - and wish we could keep sparano etc. i think blood is in the water and he is def gone right after the last game. that being said, i think we can still do well with a hungry young coach who demands accountability and brings a new energy to the team. just dont "blow it up"

MiZFiT
11-25-2011, 10:31 PM
Jim harbaugh says otherwise. Alex smith is a good QB but Jim harbaugh is a great coach

CaSh
11-25-2011, 11:20 PM
Your right. If we had a QB that can produce 25-40 points a game like Rodgers, our CURRENT defense would be enough to take us deep into the playoffs THIS year. Unfortunately, there are very few QBs in the league than can do that. This offense has so many weapons its unreal... Any above average coaching staff (this coaching staff is certainly in the bottom 5) could have this team a serious contender... That's how much talent this team has. Our D can hold a team to a small number of points consistently, our offense just doesn't produce enough. Been like this for a long time....

Without a doubt a top QB puts this team seriously over the top even with Sparano as the coach.

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 05:04 AM
Your right. If we had a QB that can produce 25-40 points a game like Rodgers, our CURRENT defense would be enough to take us deep into the playoffs THIS year. Unfortunately, there are very few QBs in the league than can do that. This offense has so many weapons its unreal... Any above average coaching staff (this coaching staff is certainly in the bottom 5) could have this team a serious contender... That's how much talent this team has. Our D can hold a team to a small number of points consistently, our offense just doesn't produce enough. Been like this for a long time....

Without a doubt a top QB puts this team seriously over the top even with Sparano as the coach.

We don't need that many points...in fact you know we have scored 5 more points than our opposition this year, we've just been unlucky, i think a better QB would change that luck...no pun intended

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 05:05 AM
Jim harbaugh says otherwise. Alex smith is a good QB but Jim harbaugh is a great coach

let's see what happens I guarantee he won't win a super bowl w/ alex smith...the Ravens exposed the SF offense thursday night

gofins60
11-26-2011, 12:07 PM
Miami went 11-5 because of an easy 1-15 schedule and the fact that the Wildcat took a lot of teams by surprise. Pennington was a decent game manager, but not a franchise QB. How did the WC go over in 2009? Hah! Three WC plays in the red zone for no yards and a FG... that was our offensive strategy. Now we have a different OC and what's the result? Reggie Bush up the middle twice for a loss in the red zone, a sack, and then a FG. Why can't we use our power running game to score on the goal line? Because Ireland/Sparano still can't put together a dominant o-line after 4 years. Well, surely a top-notch QB can score in the red zone against a good defense? Sure, but this team has had no interest in using top draft picks on a QB, ever. This is a mediocre team led by mediocre leadership that will never go beyond the occasional first round playoff loss. I blame Parcells, and anyone associated with, or brought in by him needs to be replaced.

samikit13
11-26-2011, 12:18 PM
First, no need to resign Moore. He is signed through the 2012 season. Second, no way Miami should keep Tony. He's a good person just not an ideal head coach. This team NEEDS a franchise QB. It's time they stop messing around.

rent this space
11-26-2011, 12:27 PM
They need more than a QB but they should do everything possible to get one of those top QBs this year including trading picks/players to move up

Spesh
11-26-2011, 12:51 PM
Tony's mistakes are on par with the type of judgement errors Belichick makes, but the difference is of course he has a QB to win the games they need so those mistakes aren't amplified as much.

Hilarious.

Dont fire a proven bad coach, instead just go out and find a hall of fame quarterback! Why didnt we see it all sooner! I see no holes in this plan.

SebasMiamiFan
11-26-2011, 01:05 PM
You've been on a roll lately. :tubes:

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 04:28 PM
Miami went 11-5 because of an easy 1-15 schedule and the fact that the Wildcat took a lot of teams by surprise. Pennington was a decent game manager, but not a franchise QB. How did the WC go over in 2009? Hah! Three WC plays in the red zone for no yards and a FG... that was our offensive strategy. Now we have a different OC and what's the result? Reggie Bush up the middle twice for a loss in the red zone, a sack, and then a FG. Why can't we use our power running game to score on the goal line? Because Ireland/Sparano still can't put together a dominant o-line after 4 years. Well, surely a top-notch QB can score in the red zone against a good defense? Sure, but this team has had no interest in using top draft picks on a QB, ever. This is a mediocre team led by mediocre leadership that will never go beyond the occasional first round playoff loss. I blame Parcells, and anyone associated with, or brought in by him needs to be replaced.

Such a BS reply, who cares if we had a easy schedule you do realize your record only determines 3 of the games you play that season, the rest of the season is the same as everyone else; we went to the playoffs. How is the Wildcat a knock on Tony? I'd say that shows a coach willing to think outside of the box to maximize his offense.

Dan Henning's ****ty offense the following seasons is not Sparano's fault, Parcells kept him on.

We won't use a top pick on a QB EVER???? are you f'ing serious, out of the 4 drafts they've had they've picked 2 QB's and those QB's were the Tuna's choice. Do you honestly think they won't be picking a QB first this year???

God, some of you are so blinded by hate you can't see beyond your own ***.

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 04:30 PM
Hilarious.

Dont fire a proven bad coach, instead just go out and find a hall of fame quarterback! Why didnt we see it all sooner! I see no holes in this plan.

He's not a proven bad coach. He's proven he can lead this team to the playoffs.

Gonzo
11-26-2011, 04:42 PM
Teflon Tony. The guy isn't responsible for a single bad thing on this 3-8 team, or the back-to-back 7-9 teams before it.

Each year it's been a different coordinator's fault. This year he need a QB, because apparently he's the only head coach in the NFL that has zero say in personnel decisions...unless they're good personnel decisions of course, I bet his name was written all over bringing in Cam Wake.

Next year, if he's still around (which he won't be), what will the excuse be? Needs a different chewing gum? Needs a new fist pump coordinator?

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 04:52 PM
Teflon Tony. The guy isn't responsible for a single bad thing on this 3-8 team, or the back-to-back 7-9 teams before it.

Each year it's been a different coordinator's fault. This year he need a QB, because apparently he's the only head coach in the NFL that has zero say in personnel decisions...unless they're good personnel decisions of course, I bet his name was written all over bringing in Cam Wake.

Next year, if he's still around (which he won't be), what will the excuse be? Needs a different chewing gum? Needs a new fist pump coordinator?

You guys are missing the entire point because your hate for this man is so seething. The guy has had nothing but odds stacked against him the entire time he's been in Miami, and he has remained a strong leader throughout the entire ordeal. Give the ****ing guy a QB and watch how good this team is.

The problem is you retard fans always need someone to lynch for bad luck. You do realize we have outscored our opponents by 5 points this year. I doubt there's ever been another 3-8 team in the league that's ever done that. If we get a QB that can consistently make plays we will do well.

All firing Sparano will do is set us back another 3 years so that some other ******* can come in here and lose until he gets a QB.

Learn from the most successful teams in the NFL, Continuity wins, Pittsburgh Steelers, New England Patriots, Philadelphia Eagles.

****, look at Gary Kubiak this year, everyone was up in arms that he wasn't fired in Houston, and now, since the GM allowed his system to develop, they are having their best season.

Say YES to Continuity.

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 04:54 PM
You guys are missing the entire point because your hate for this man is so seething. The guy has had nothing but odds stacked against him the entire time he's been in Miami, and he has remained a strong leader throughout the entire ordeal. Give the ****ing guy a QB and watch how good this team is.

The problem is you retard fans always need someone to lynch for bad luck. You do realize we have outscored our opponents by 5 points this year. I doubt there's ever been another 3-8 team in the league that's ever done that. If we get a QB that can consistently make plays we will do well.

All firing Sparano will do is set us back another 3 years so that some other ******* can come in here and lose until he gets a QB.

Learn from the most successful teams in the NFL, Continuity wins, Pittsburgh Steelers, New England Patriots, Philadelphia Eagles.

****, look at Gary Kubiak this year, everyone was up in arms that he wasn't fired in Houston, and now, since the GM allowed his system to develop, they are having their best season.

Say YES to Continuity

Another point I'd like to make is how much better Matt Moore is doing in our system than he did in Carolina's

TonyGsharp
11-26-2011, 05:02 PM
More retarded replies. You guys are missing the entire point because your hate for this man is so seething. The guy has had nothing but odds stacked against him the entire time he's been in Miami, and he has remained a strong leader throughout the entire ordeal. Give the ****ing guy a QB and watch how good this team is.

The problem is you retard fans always need someone to lynch for bad luck. You do realize we have outscored our opponents by 5 points this year. I doubt there's ever been another 3-8 team in the league that's ever done that. If we get a QB that can consistently make plays we will do well.

All firing Sparano will do is set us back another 3 years so that some other ******* can come in here and lose until he gets a QB.

Learn from the most successful teams in the NFL, Continuity wins, Pittsburgh Steelers, New England Patriots, Philadelphia Eagles.

****, look at Gary Kubiak this year, everyone was up in arms that he wasn't fired in Houston, and now, since the GM allowed his system to develop, they are having their best season.

Say YES to Continuity, No to the retards!

You criticized Vaark earlier for attacking your post because it was a different opinion than yours. Now, you call someone a retard for having a different opinion than yours. Hypocrite much?

Also, can you really say with a straight face that the mistakes Sparano makes are similar to the ones that Belichick makes? Is Belichick constantly outcoached in the second half of games like Sparano is? We must be watching two different NFLs.

For every team you mentioned that has stayed consistent with their coaches, I can name a team that improved after firing their coaches for another.

Gonzo
11-26-2011, 05:03 PM
You guys are missing the entire point because your hate for this man is so seething. The guy has had nothing but odds stacked against him the entire time he's been in Miami, and he has remained a strong leader throughout the entire ordeal. Give the ****ing guy a QB and watch how good this team is.

The problem is you retard fans always need someone to lynch for bad luck. You do realize we have outscored our opponents by 5 points this year. I doubt there's ever been another 3-8 team in the league that's ever done that. If we get a QB that can consistently make plays we will do well.

All firing Sparano will do is set us back another 3 years so that some other ******* can come in here and lose until he gets a QB.

Learn from the most successful teams in the NFL, Continuity wins, Pittsburgh Steelers, New England Patriots, Philadelphia Eagles.

****, look at Gary Kubiak this year, everyone was up in arms that he wasn't fired in Houston, and now, since the GM allowed his system to develop, they are having their best season.

Say YES to Continuity.I thought all he needed was a new special teams coordinator?

Here's a quote from you October of last year:

...we'll be fine once we fire our special teams coach.

Yep, that's all we needed...to go 3-8.

Spesh
11-26-2011, 05:21 PM
He's not a proven bad coach. He's proven he can lead this team to the playoffs.

He's also proven he can lead this team to failure. 7-9, 7-9, now 3-8. Thats a bad coach. 1 decent season(which ended in a first round playoff blowout) does not mean he can have 3 horrible seasons.

As far as the quarterback excuse is being thrown around: Tony Sparano decided that Chad Henne was his franchise quarterback. He was wrong. He deserves to lose his job based on that if nothing else. The losing seasons, horrible starting line-up decisions, and horrific game day mistakes are simply icing on the cake.

Tony Sparano opened this season with a handpicked coaching staff, with a draft and free agent period that he had say over(he had say in previous years to, but this was more official as it was written into his contract), and started the season with "his guy" at quarterback. The result was an 0-7 start and a 3-8 record. The man has had 4 years to clean up this mess. He has failed to do so.

Any excuse you want to throw up is completely undermined by the fact that we are 3-8. There are no moral victories in the NFL. We are a bad team being lead by a bad coach. You have provided no proof that Sparano can succeed on this team other then stating "other bad coaches have had success in the past with good quarterbacks". Fact is, Sparano had multiple chances to get a good quarterback. In usual fashion, he couldn't evaluate the talent on his team or in the draft correctly and it lead to failure.

Gonzo
11-26-2011, 05:26 PM
He's also proven he can lead this team to failure. 7-9, 7-9, now 3-8. Thats a bad coach. 1 decent season(which ended in a first round playoff blowout) does not mean he can have 3 horrible seasons.

As far as the quarterback excuse is being thrown around: Tony Sparano decided that Chad Henne was his franchise quarterback. He was wrong. He deserves to lose his job based on that if nothing else. The losing seasons, horrible starting line-up decisions, and horrific game day mistakes are simply icing on the cake.

Tony Sparano opened this season with a handpicked coaching staff, with a draft and free agent period that he had say over(he had say in previous years to, but this was more official as it was written into his contract), and started the season with "his guy" at quarterback. The result was an 0-7 start and a 3-8 record. The man has had 4 years to clean up this mess. He has failed to do so.

Any excuse you want to throw up is completely undermined by the fact that we are 3-8. There are no moral victories in the NFL. We are a bad team being lead by a bad coach. You have provided no proof that Sparano can succeed on this team other then stating "other bad coaches have had success in the past with good quarterbacks". Fact is, Sparano had multiple chances to get a good quarterback. In usual fashion, he couldn't evaluate the talent on his team or in the draft correctly and it lead to failure.But he's 3-0 in games where we ended up with more points than the opponent!

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 05:28 PM
You criticized Vaark earlier for attacking your post because it was a different opinion than yours. Now, you call someone a retard for having a different opinion than yours. Hypocrite much?

Also, can you really say with a straight face that the mistakes Sparano makes are similar to the ones that Belichick makes? Is Belichick constantly outcoached in the second half of games like Sparano is? We must be watching two different NFLs.

For every team you mentioned that has stayed consistent with their coaches, I can name a team that improved after firing their coaches for another.

If you can than do it, in most arguments it takes solid evidence to prove your stance

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 05:32 PM
He's also proven he can lead this team to failure. 7-9, 7-9, now 3-8. Thats a bad coach. 1 decent season(which ended in a first round playoff blowout) does not mean he can have 3 horrible seasons.

As far as the quarterback excuse is being thrown around: Tony Sparano decided that Chad Henne was his franchise quarterback. He was wrong. He deserves to lose his job based on that if nothing else. The losing seasons, horrible starting line-up decisions, and horrific game day mistakes are simply icing on the cake.

Tony Sparano opened this season with a handpicked coaching staff, with a draft and free agent period that he had say over(he had say in previous years to, but this was more official as it was written into his contract), and started the season with "his guy" at quarterback. The result was an 0-7 start and a 3-8 record. The man has had 4 years to clean up this mess. He has failed to do so.

Any excuse you want to throw up is completely undermined by the fact that we are 3-8. There are no moral victories in the NFL. We are a bad team being lead by a bad coach. You have provided no proof that Sparano can succeed on this team other then stating "other bad coaches have had success in the past with good quarterbacks". Fact is, Sparano had multiple chances to get a good quarterback. In usual fashion, he couldn't evaluate the talent on his team or in the draft correctly and it lead to failure.

This is a tough season to judge by, the owner went and courted another coach in the offseason, and another QB, so basically Sparano and Henne were undermined coming into the season; then we had a short offseason to put in a brand new offense; with 2 new RBs and a whole new starting right side of the O line. Henne showed signs in his first year and even last year that he could be our franchise QB...and Tony did not pick him.

Vaark
11-26-2011, 05:34 PM
Bottom-line for me: if Tony took the Wonderlic, I'd be surprised if he ended up doing any better than 50% of his players and coaches. Now Cowher, Gruden, Belicheat, the Harbaughs, Tomlin etc, would more likely net out in the upper quartile. Do you really want a HC who's not much sharper than most of his players aside from Marshall and Incognito? Not me!

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 05:39 PM
You criticized Vaark earlier for attacking your post because it was a different opinion than yours. Now, you call someone a retard for having a different opinion than yours. Hypocrite much?

Also, can you really say with a straight face that the mistakes Sparano makes are similar to the ones that Belichick makes? Is Belichick constantly outcoached in the second half of games like Sparano is? We must be watching two different NFLs.

For every team you mentioned that has stayed consistent with their coaches, I can name a team that improved after firing their coaches for another.
.

Another thing, I back up all of my posts with real evidence that makes sense, and not just heresay. I was mad at Vaark because he attacked my original thesis without reading the supporting evidence

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 05:41 PM
Bottom-line for me: if Tony took the Wonderlic, I'd be surprised if he ended up doing any better than 50% of his players and coaches. Now Cowher, Gruden, Belicheat, the Harbaughs, Tomlin etc, would more likely net out in the upper quartile. Do you really want a HC who's not much sharper than most of his players aside from Marshall and Incognito? Not me!

Where do you get this? Tony's players, and colleagues have all mentioned how smart of a football guy he is. I think your being racist against italians, which is not very nice. Just because his last name is Sparano doesn't mean he shares the intelligence level of a Jersey Shore cast member. Grow up

Vaark
11-26-2011, 05:46 PM
Where do you get this? Tony's players, and colleagues have all mentioned how smart of a football guy he is. I think your being racist against italians, which is not very nice. Just because his last name is Sparano doesn't mean he shares the intelligence level of a Jersey Shore cast member. Grow up

that's very interesting since half my family is.. but if the truth be told: If not wanting short bus head coaches on my favorite team, then definitely call me a racist. :idk:

TonyGsharp
11-26-2011, 05:47 PM
If you can than do it, in most arguments it takes solid evidence to prove your stance

Oh, I'm sorry, I just assumed you followed the NFL.

In the past 5 years alone off the top of my head:

Jets (Rex Ryan)
49ers (Jim Harbaugh)
Falcons (Mike Smith) * Who started the same year as Sparano. Now compare the Falcons and Dolphins success.
Lions (Jim Shwartz)
Cowboys (Jason Garret)

These teams had poor records before being taken over. And if you tell me they had a QB and we need one too, well then, you might as well state that water is a liquid. All the great teams have good head coach/QB combos.

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 05:58 PM
[QUOTE=TonyGsharp;1064114172]Oh, I'm sorry, I just assumed you followed the NFL.

In the past 5 years alone off the top of my head:

Jets (Rex Ryan)
Started off with a playoff caliber roster, and they might not make the playoffs in year 3

49ers (Jim Harbaugh)
Let the season end before you crown him, just as much as we've gotten unlucky they've gotten lucky. Remember when Josh McDaniels started hot with Denver, and then lost most of the rest of his games? San Fran is a one and done playoff team at best. Again, he took over a extremely talented roster as well.

Falcons (Mike Smith) * Who started the same year as Sparano. Now compare the Falcons and Dolphins success.
Matt Ryan. Period. Matt Ryan isn't the greatest, and I'm glad we took Jake Long ahead of him. But he has been a great game manager.

Lions (Jim Shwartz)
Last I checked Jim Shwartz hasn't even been to the playoffs? Probably wont' go this year either.

Cowboys (Jason Garret)
Again, last I checked he hasn't done **** yet. But, assuming he does this year, he does have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL.

These teams had poor records before being taken over. And if you tell me they had a QB and we need one too, well then, you might as well state that water is a liquid. All the great teams have good head coach/QB combos.

Uruguayfinfan
11-26-2011, 05:58 PM
I thought all we need is love. Apart from that, i think a new coach will give us a nice push if we can get a competent one. I don't hate sparano, in fact i think he's a fine guy, but he's been too many years without showing anything that may lead us to win a superbowl.

A QB would be a good addition as well obviously, we should be wise when picking though.

flynryan15
11-26-2011, 06:07 PM
So for the record how many more seasons, QBs, coordinators, assistants, scouts, personnel, players, ball boys, cheerleaders, etc do we have to go through before you decide Sparano is a bad coach?

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 06:10 PM
One more QB, this will be his choice. If it doesn't work out then he has to go. I still don't think he's a bad coach regardless. He's shown me enough to prove that he is a good coach.

flynryan15
11-26-2011, 06:14 PM
One more QB, this will be his choice. If it doesn't work out then he has to go. I still don't think he's a bad coach regardless. He's shown me enough to prove that he is a good coach.

So a rookie QB with a average of a 3yr development window?

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 06:18 PM
So a rookie QB with a average of a 3yr development window?

You and I both know 1st round QBs don't take 3 years anymore, we'll have a good idea midway through year 2, maybe even year 1.

tylerdolphin
11-26-2011, 06:22 PM
If coaches dont matter, why the hard on for Tony and why care if we can him?

TonyGsharp
11-26-2011, 06:26 PM
[QUOTE=TonyGsharp;1064114172]Oh, I'm sorry, I just assumed you followed the NFL.

In the past 5 years alone off the top of my head:

Jets (Rex Ryan)
Started off with a playoff caliber roster, and they might not make the playoffs in year 3

Playoff caliber because they acquired a bunch of good free agents after his arrival, and the fact that they might not make the playoffs this year is a moot point, because they still were vastly improved after a head coaching change which is the point you're not understanding.

49ers (Jim Harbaugh)
Let the season end before you crown him, just as much as we've gotten unlucky they've gotten lucky. Remember when Josh McDaniels started hot with Denver, and then lost most of the rest of his games? San Fran is a one and done playoff team at best. Again, he took over a extremely talented roster as well.

A talented roster that couldn't have a winning season with a crappy head coach...hmm...reminds me of Tony Sparano. Still missing the point -- they are much improved with a new head coach and they've only lost two games.

Falcons (Mike Smith) * Who started the same year as Sparano. Now compare the Falcons and Dolphins success.
Matt Ryan. Period. Matt Ryan isn't the greatest, and I'm glad we took Jake Long ahead of him. But he has been a great game manager.

LOL. Yeah, don't give any credit to the coach who also inherited a mess, just like Sparano, except placed more importance on the QB position. Smith has succeeded where Sparano has failed.

Lions (Jim Shwartz)
Last I checked Jim Shwartz hasn't even been to the playoffs? Probably wont' go this year either.

Again, the point has been missed by you. Not saying they are a Super Bowl caliber team, but they are much improved, because like Smith, Shwartz doesn't get out coached as much as Sparano and he also placed importance on the QB position. An important thing that again, Sparano has failed to do.

Cowboys (Jason Garret)
Again, last I checked he hasn't done **** yet. But, assuming he does this year, he does have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL.

Again, you miss the point. They are better now after making a coaching change. What, did you expect me to list 30 teams that have a good head coach but no talent whatsoever? Good talent and good head coaches are correlated. I hope I don't need to explain that one to you.These teams had poor records before being taken over. And if you tell me they had a QB and we need one too, well then, you might as well state that water is a liquid. All the great teams have good head coach/QB combos.

Geez. You're an excuse machine, just like Sparano.

TonyGsharp
11-26-2011, 06:28 PM
One more QB, this will be his choice. If it doesn't work out then he has to go. I still don't think he's a bad coach regardless. He's shown me enough to prove that he is a good coach.

You must not have high expectations then.

flynryan15
11-26-2011, 06:30 PM
You and I both know 1st round QBs don't take 3 years anymore, we'll have a good idea midway through year 2, maybe even year 1.

Aaron Rodgers?

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 06:31 PM
If coaches dont matter, why the hard on for Tony and why care if we can him?

I never said coaches don't matter. You need a coach that can get his players to play for him, and Tony does that.

My biggest reason for being so passionate about this subject is the fact that we need CONTINUITY! Period.

The more you switch your systems and overhaul your roster, you end up being like the Redskins, or the Raiders, or the Lions were

Look at Coughlin, the year they won the Super Bowl everyone was calling for him to be fired, but with Eli he got there and won it.

Look at Marvin Lewis this year. Finally got rid of the scrub that is Carson Palmer, drafted a good QB, and they are playing well, and look set up for years to come.

Continuity doesn't grab headlines, but it wins championships

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 06:48 PM
Jets (Rex Ryan)
Started off with a playoff caliber roster, and they might not make the playoffs in year 3

Playoff caliber because they acquired a bunch of good free agents after his arrival, and the fact that they might not make the playoffs this year is a moot point, because they still were vastly improved after a head coaching change which is the point you're not understanding.
David Harris was already there, Thomas Jones, Nick Mangold, Damion Woody, D’Brickshaw Ferguson, Darrell Revis, Kris Jenkins…Mangini got tossed because of the Favre fiasco. The real star of the Jets is their GM Tannebaum, that’s who’s acquired the talent. Rex Ryan continues to do everything he can to **** it up.

49ers (Jim Harbaugh)
Let the season end before you crown him, just as much as we've gotten unlucky they've gotten lucky. Remember when Josh McDaniels started hot with Denver, and then lost most of the rest of his games? San Fran is a one and done playoff team at best. Again, he took over a extremely talented roster as well.

A talented roster that couldn't have a winning season with a crappy head coach...hmm...reminds me of Tony Sparano. Still missing the point -- they are much improved with a new head coach and they've only lost two games.
Oh were doing the first season with an underperforming team bump? Kinda like how Tony came to Miami and brought a 1-15 team to 11-5 and a playoff birth. I’m more impressed with that than Harbaugh’s horseshoe up his *** season.

Falcons (Mike Smith) * Who started the same year as Sparano. Now compare the Falcons and Dolphins success.
Matt Ryan. Period. Matt Ryan isn't the greatest, and I'm glad we took Jake Long ahead of him. But he has been a great game manager.

LOL. Yeah, don't give any credit to the coach who also inherited a mess, just like Sparano, except placed more importance on the QB position. Smith has succeeded where Sparano has failed.


Smith, much like Sparano had little to no say on those decisions. BUT MIKE SMITH IS A CONSERVATIVE COACH WHO PLAYS NOT TO LOSE! You guys would hate him.

Lions (Jim Shwartz)
Last I checked Jim Shwartz hasn't even been to the playoffs? Probably wont' go this year either.

Again, the point has been missed by you. Not saying they are a Super Bowl caliber team, but they are much improved, because like Smith, Shwartz doesn't get out coached as much as Sparano and he also placed importance on the QB position. An important thing that again, Sparano has failed to do.


The Dolphins are more improved under Sparano than the Lions are under Shwartz. Period. The Lions are free falling right now and will continue because Shwartz’s team is undisciplined. Line up his record and Sparano’s record if you will. Thanks.

Cowboys (Jason Garret)
Again, last I checked he hasn't done **** yet. But, assuming he does this year, he does have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL.

Again, you miss the point. They are better now after making a coaching change. What, did you expect me to list 30 teams that have a good head coach but no talent whatsoever? Good talent and good head coaches are correlated. I hope I don't need to explain that one to you.These teams had poor records before being taken over. And if you tell me they had a QB and we need one too, well then, you might as well state that water is a liquid. All the great teams have good head coach/QB combos.
Yea, but the Dolphins had a poor record before Sparano took them over, and I’d argue that the Dolphins are more improved than any of these teams….Oh and the Jets didn’t have a poor record before Rex got there, The Cowboys were a year removed from the playoffs.
BTW these aren’t excuses I’m just poking the obvious holes in your weak arguement

---------- Post added at 05:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:47 PM ----------


Aaron Rodgers?

Aaron Rodgers didn't need to sit, he sat because Favre was there. If you didn't notice we don't really have someone to keep a stud QB on the bench

Spesh
11-26-2011, 06:59 PM
This is a tough season to judge by, the owner went and courted another coach in the offseason, and another QB, so basically Sparano and Henne were undermined coming into the season; then we had a short offseason to put in a brand new offense; with 2 new RBs and a whole new starting right side of the O line. Henne showed signs in his first year and even last year that he could be our franchise QB...and Tony did not pick him.

So wait, your suggesting that Tony Sparano might have had some adversity before the season began? Whoa! He should totally be off the hook! I mean, no other coach in the league had to deal with anything adverse.

And by new offense, you mean the offense that Tony Sparano hand picked? The offensive coordinator that he interviewed and gave the job to? The 2 running backs that he traded for and drafted? The whole new starting right side of the offensive line that he decided on?
The same offensive line that he hasn't been able to pick consistent starters for in 4 years?

Virtually every coach in the national football league had to deal with the NFL lockout. Tony was put into the same situation as every other team in the league...and he has won 3 games. Teams with completely new coaching staffs are putting together winning seasons with just a handful of weeks to introduce new systems. This is Sparano's 4th year....and the team was still under prepared.

Oh, and Sparano did pick Henne. His assistant coaches(some of whom he hired) sold him on Chad Henne in that draft. After picking him, Sparano kept him on for 4 years, with 4 offseasons to replace him. Sparano did not. Even this past offseason, in a quarterback heavy draft, with a contract that stated he had power over personel moves, Sparano passed on good quarterback prospects and refused to trade up for others. Why did he do so? Because he thought he had better in Henne. And he was wrong.

The only person who is having a "tough" time judging the season is you. Others see that 3 wins is not acceptable. Others see that Tony Sparano making the same mistakes he did 4 years ago is not acceptable. Good coaches rise up against adversity. Good coaches win games with the odds stacked against them. Good coaches properly evaluate talent and take steps to correct positions of weakness. Good coaches do not let their boss's misadventures distract them from winning games. Tony Sparano does not fill any of those requirements. Tony Sparano is not a good coach.

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 07:09 PM
So wait, your suggesting that Tony Sparano might have had some adversity before the season began? Whoa! He should totally be off the hook! I mean, no other coach in the league had to deal with anything adverse.

No other coach had his owner and GM court another coach this offseason, no.

And by new offense, you mean the offense that Tony Sparano hand picked? The offensive coordinator that he interviewed and gave the job to? The 2 running backs that he traded for and drafted? The whole new starting right side of the offensive line that he decided on?
The same offensive line that he hasn't been able to pick consistent starters for in 4 years?

My point is it took time for it to gel. Now that it is clicking, the offensive coordinator looks like the right move, the RBs look way better than Ricky and Ronnie this season.

Virtually every coach in the national football league had to deal with the NFL lockout. Tony was put into the same situation as every other team in the league...and he has won 3 games. Teams with completely new coaching staffs are putting together winning seasons with just a handful of weeks to introduce new systems. This is Sparano's 4th year....and the team was still under prepared.

Oh, and Sparano did pick Henne. His assistant coaches(some of whom he hired) sold him on Chad Henne in that draft. After picking him, Sparano kept him on for 4 years, with 4 offseasons to replace him. Sparano did not. Even this past offseason, in a quarterback heavy draft, with a contract that stated he had power over personel moves, Sparano passed on good quarterback prospects and refused to trade up for others. Why did he do so? Because he thought he had better in Henne. And he was wrong.

No he didn't pick Henne....also, if Henne was here for 4 years than he didn't have 4 offseasons to replace him. Henne had a great first season in the starting role in year 2, so you don't replace him that year; he slumped in year 3 but much of it could be attributed to a bad offensive scheme; he changed the coordinator. This year to open the season Henne was much improved over last year before being injured.

The only person who is having a "tough" time judging the season is you. Others see that 3 wins is not acceptable. Others see that Tony Sparano making the same mistakes he did 4 years ago is not acceptable. Good coaches rise up against adversity. Good coaches win games with the odds stacked against them. Good coaches properly evaluate talent and take steps to correct positions of weakness. Good coaches do not let their boss's misadventures distract them from winning games. Tony Sparano does not fill any of those requirements. Tony Sparano is not a good coach.

I agree good coaches win games with the odds stacked against them, take a look at the past 4 games we've played after our season was supposedly over and Sparano was called a dead man walking

This is why I'm so sure I'm right, is because your arguements are so childish and whiny...there is no substance to them whatsoever

Sarnics13
11-26-2011, 07:21 PM
They need more than a QB but they should do everything possible to get one of those top QBs this year including trading picks/players to move up

So we need more....but your answer is to trade away what we DO have?? Then we need even more than we do now......

tylerdolphin
11-26-2011, 07:27 PM
No substance? Youre the one clinging to specific like "No other coach had his owner and GM court another coach this offseason, no." and such just to try invalidate his argument. Thats crazy. If I have a worker who is below average in his results, and he tells me that he has family issues, does that get him off the hook? I can say that Jim is going through a divorce and Judy's dad just died and they are still productive despite family issues. Can my worker then say "Well, neither of their children is in trouble with the law"? No...its the same damn thing. No excuses. Yes...no other coach was openly shopped around on this offseason. Other doaches did have major issues that they overcame though. Stop with the bull**** excuses. And stop projecting YOUR lack of an argument onto Spesh and discounting his point by being intentionally over-specific.

tylerdolphin
11-26-2011, 07:28 PM
So we need more....but your answer is to trade away what we DO have?? Then we need even more than we do now......

We do need more, but QB is by far the most important position to fill and other positions are more easily filled by other means than a high draft pick.

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 07:32 PM
No substance? Youre the one clinging to specific like "No other coach had his owner and GM court another coach this offseason, no." and such just to try invalidate his argument. Thats crazy. If I have a worker who is below average in his results, and he tells me that he has family issues, does that get him off the hook? I can say that Jim is going through a divorce and Judy's dad just died and they are still productive despite family issues. Can my worker then say "Well, neither of their children is in trouble with the law"? No...its the same damn thing. No excuses. Yes...no other coach was openly shopped around on this offseason. Other doaches did have major issues that they overcame though. Stop with the bull**** excuses. And stop projecting YOUR lack of an argument onto Spesh and discounting his point by being intentionally over-specific.

Name an issue another coach dealt with this season that was tougher to over come then?

See this is what I mean, you guys don't have substance, you just see things, say "me no likey" and then scream that the coach is an idiot

I'm not the only person on here who thinks Sparano is the best coach for this team. I just seem to be the only one with enough energy and time to refute all your bull**** arguments. And that's only because I have a long weekend w/ nothing to do; and somehow haven't been kicked off of here yet.

So go ahead, give me evidence to support your arguement or STFU

TonyGsharp
11-26-2011, 07:39 PM
Jets (Rex Ryan)
Started off with a playoff caliber roster, and they might not make the playoffs in year 3
Playoff caliber because they acquired a bunch of good free agents after his arrival, and the fact that they might not make the playoffs this year is a moot point, because they still were vastly improved after a head coaching change which is the point you're not understanding.
David Harris was already there, Thomas Jones, Nick Mangold, Damion Woody, D’Brickshaw Ferguson, Darrell Revis, Kris Jenkins…Mangini got tossed because of the Favre fiasco. The real star of the Jets is their GM Tannebaum, that’s who’s acquired the talent. Rex Ryan continues to do everything he can to **** it up.
Yet somehow they managed to make the AFC championship game two years in a row after a coaching change. LOL. All of the studs Sanchez throws to have come in free agency, and they also got Pace which is a key part of that defense. Not to mention Bart Scott.

49ers (Jim Harbaugh)
Let the season end before you crown him, just as much as we've gotten unlucky they've gotten lucky. Remember when Josh McDaniels started hot with Denver, and then lost most of the rest of his games? San Fran is a one and done playoff team at best. Again, he took over a extremely talented roster as well. A talented roster that couldn't have a winning season with a crappy head coach...hmm...reminds me of Tony Sparano. Still missing the point -- they are much improved with a new head coach and they've only lost two games.
Oh were doing the first season with an underperforming team bump? Kinda like how Tony came to Miami and brought a 1-15 team to 11-5 and a playoff birth. I’m more impressed with that than Harbaugh’s horseshoe up his *** season.
Except that Harbaugh has beaten GOOD teams in playoff contention (Giants, Bengals, Lions) while we beat crappy teams in 2008 with an extremely easy SOS, and he has done it with a bust at QB, Sparano did it with Pennington. Convenient how everyone can agree that he is a good coach except you because it doesn't fit your argument and you ignore facts surrounding both seasons. Harbaughs's 49ers will finish better than the 2008 Dolphins and against better teams.

Falcons (Mike Smith) * Who started the same year as Sparano. Now compare the Falcons and Dolphins success.
Matt Ryan. Period. Matt Ryan isn't the greatest, and I'm glad we took Jake Long ahead of him. But he has been a great game manager.

LOL. Yeah, don't give any credit to the coach who also inherited a mess, just like Sparano, except placed more importance on the QB position. Smith has succeeded where Sparano has failed.


Smith, much like Sparano had little to no say on those decisions. BUT MIKE SMITH IS A CONSERVATIVE COACH WHO PLAYS NOT TO LOSE! You guys would hate him.
Except he is a smarter coach than Sparano, and he's been a winner these past 4 years. I think it's just you who hates being shown a valid argument.

Lions (Jim Shwartz)
Last I checked Jim Shwartz hasn't even been to the playoffs? Probably wont' go this year either.

Again, the point has been missed by you. Not saying they are a Super Bowl caliber team, but they are much improved, because like Smith, Shwartz doesn't get out coached as much as Sparano and he also placed importance on the QB position. An important thing that again, Sparano has failed to do.


The Dolphins are more improved under Sparano than the Lions are under Shwartz. Period. The Lions are free falling right now and will continue because Shwartz’s team is undisciplined. Line up his record and Sparano’s record if you will. Thanks.
Shwartz: 15-28 (3 years)
Sparano: 28-31 (4 years)

Sparano has lost more games, and most importantly, the Dolphins record with him being our head coach has gotten worse each year. The Lions record with Shwartz has improved every year. By the time Shwartz has his fourth year like Sparano, he will most likely have won more, and lost less. Thanks for playing.

Cowboys (Jason Garret)
Again, last I checked he hasn't done **** yet. But, assuming he does this year, he does have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL.

Again, you miss the point. They are better now after making a coaching change. What, did you expect me to list 30 teams that have a good head coach but no talent whatsoever? Good talent and good head coaches are correlated. I hope I don't need to explain that one to you.These teams had poor records before being taken over. And if you tell me they had a QB and we need one too, well then, you might as well state that water is a liquid. All the great teams have good head coach/QB combos.
Yea, but the Dolphins had a poor record before Sparano took them over, and I’d argue that the Dolphins are more improved than any of these teams….Oh and the Jets didn’t have a poor record before Rex got there, The Cowboys were a year removed from the playoffs.
BTW these aren’t excuses I’m just poking the obvious holes in your weak arguement
The Jets HAD a losing record in 2007 and failed to reach the playoffs in 2008. Weak argument? LOL, good way to counter valid points with your excuse machine. The Dolphins are SO much improved that we are sitting at 3-8, lost 11 straight home games, and Sparano started his 4th year 0-7. What a great coach. He definitely deserves another chance. You are making excuses, just like Sparano does every press conference. Your arguments are not facts, nor are they rational. You are definitely making excuses to hold up your end of an illogical argument, and you sound like Sparano making excuses after every press conference. "Oh, but we gave great effort..." Too bad they don't give championships to losers who gave a great effort.

---------- Post added at 05:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:47 PM ----------



Aaron Rodgers didn't need to sit, he sat because Favre was there. If you didn't notice we don't really have someone to keep a stud QB on the bench

Thankfully you will NOT get your way. Sparano will be fired at the end of the year and rightfully so.

Spesh
11-26-2011, 07:50 PM
No other coach had his owner and GM court another coach this offseason, no.

My point is it took time for it to gel. Now that it is clicking, the offensive coordinator looks like the right move, the RBs look way better than Ricky and Ronnie this season.

No he didn't pick Henne....also, if Henne was here for 4 years than he didn't have 4 offseasons to replace him. Henne had a great first season in the starting role in year 2, so you don't replace him that year; he slumped in year 3 but much of it could be attributed to a bad offensive scheme; he changed the coordinator. This year to open the season Henne was much improved over last year before being injured.

I agree good coaches win games with the odds stacked against them, take a look at the past 4 games we've played after our season was supposedly over and Sparano was called a dead man walking

This is why I'm so sure I'm right, is because your arguements are so childish and whiny...there is no substance to them whatsoever

Other coaches had to walk into locker rooms with no knowledge of the personel and slap together a coaching staff, playbook, and game plans. And yet...they are winning games. Id say thats more adverse then an owner speaking to a coach. They handled it, Sparano didn't. Other coaches have been doubted and threatened to be fired and went on to winning seasons. Sparano hasn't.
And "the time to gel" part, virtually every team in the league had that same problem. And yet Miami is the one that has a completely trashed season. Other teams with new coaching staffs have injured players and are still winning more games. And honestly, is it to much to ask for an offense that could win us a single game out of their first 7? Apparently so. Winning 3 games and losing 8 does not equal "the plan is working and the new coach is awesome". It means something is extremely wrong.

Sparano could have cut Henne was a rookie. Hence 4 years. Should he have? No. But then again, should he have replaced him during a very deep and talented quarterback draft? Yup. But he didn't. Much like he should have cut Bobby Carpenter but didnt until other teams coaches pointed out the flaw to him. Much like he should have benched Gibril Wilson but didnt. Much like he shouldnt have signed Marc Colombo. Much like he shouldnt have blamed every offensive player for Dan Henning's mistakes. Tony Sparano should be held accountable for each of those mistakes. Tony Sparano had chances to get competant play at the quarterback position. He did not. He should be fired.

So wait, odds stacked against Tony Sparano during the first 7 games: dont count. Odds stacked against him during the last 4(against some of the worst teams in the league): totally killing it! Its arguments like this that are so hilarious. Praise be to Tony Sparano for winning 3 games when he loses 8! 3 wins totally justifies everything Tony Sparano has every done, just ignore the other 8!

Your argument is beyond amusing yet absolutely absurd. You pick and choose which parts of a season to pay attention to, you justify any fault, and the solutions that you raise are beyond rational. And when people do not agree with you, you try and take personal shots. And yet...my discussion is the one lacking substance. Right.

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 07:52 PM
Jets (Rex Ryan)
Started off with a playoff caliber roster, and they might not make the playoffs in year 3

Playoff caliber because they acquired a bunch of good free agents after his arrival, and the fact that they might not make the playoffs this year is a moot point, because they still were vastly improved after a head coaching change which is the point you're not understanding.
David Harris was already there, Thomas Jones, Nick Mangold, Damion Woody, D’Brickshaw Ferguson, Darrell Revis, Kris Jenkins…Mangini got tossed because of the Favre fiasco. The real star of the Jets is their GM Tannebaum, that’s who’s acquired the talent. Rex Ryan continues to do everything he can to **** it up.
Yet somehow they managed to make the AFC championship game two years in a row after a coaching change. LOL. All of the studs Sanchez throws to have come in free agency, and they also got Pace which is a key part of that defense. Not to mention Bart Scott.
Their receivers suck so does Sanchez so does their passing game, Bart Scott isn’t any good he’s just Rex’s guy, and talks a lot of ****; same with Calvin Pace, overpaid.

49ers (Jim Harbaugh)
Let the season end before you crown him, just as much as we've gotten unlucky they've gotten lucky. Remember when Josh McDaniels started hot with Denver, and then lost most of the rest of his games? San Fran is a one and done playoff team at best. Again, he took over a extremely talented roster as well.

A talented roster that couldn't have a winning season with a crappy head coach...hmm...reminds me of Tony Sparano. Still missing the point -- they are much improved with a new head coach and they've only lost two games.
Oh were doing the first season with an underperforming team bump? Kinda like how Tony came to Miami and brought a 1-15 team to 11-5 and a playoff birth. I’m more impressed with that than Harbaugh’s horseshoe up his *** season.
Except that Harbaugh has beaten GOOD teams in playoff contention (Giants, Bengals, Lions) while we beat crappy teams in 2008 with an extremely easy SOS, and he has done it with a bust at QB, Sparano did it with Pennington. Convenient how everyone can agree that he is a good coach except you because it doesn't fit your argument and you ignore facts surrounding both seasons. Harbaughs's 49ers will finish better than the 2008 Dolphins and against better teams.
I’m not saying Harbaugh isn’t a good coach, I’m just saying I think Sparano is just as good. The Dolphins beat plenty of good teams in 08, the Patriots, the Jets, Chargers, and a good Broncos team. SF had no business winning that Philly game that Ronnie Brown threw away; so give Sparano an assist on that win; they should’ve lost to Seattle if Ted Ginn doesn’t pull a kick return out of his *** . But I’m not even going to argue that Harbaugh isn’t good, I’m saying Sparano is just as good.

Falcons (Mike Smith) * Who started the same year as Sparano. Now compare the Falcons and Dolphins success.
Matt Ryan. Period. Matt Ryan isn't the greatest, and I'm glad we took Jake Long ahead of him. But he has been a great game manager.

LOL. Yeah, don't give any credit to the coach who also inherited a mess, just like Sparano, except placed more importance on the QB position. Smith has succeeded where Sparano has failed.


Smith, much like Sparano had little to no say on those decisions. BUT MIKE SMITH IS A CONSERVATIVE COACH WHO PLAYS NOT TO LOSE! You guys would hate him.
Except he is a smarter coach than Sparano, and he's been a winner these past 4 years. I think it's just you who hates being shown a valid argument.
Again I already explained why he’s been a winner. You’re arguing a moot point here.

Lions (Jim Shwartz)
Last I checked Jim Shwartz hasn't even been to the playoffs? Probably wont' go this year either.

Again, the point has been missed by you. Not saying they are a Super Bowl caliber team, but they are much improved, because like Smith, Shwartz doesn't get out coached as much as Sparano and he also placed importance on the QB position. An important thing that again, Sparano has failed to do.


The Dolphins are more improved under Sparano than the Lions are under Shwartz. Period. The Lions are free falling right now and will continue because Shwartz’s team is undisciplined. Line up his record and Sparano’s record if you will. Thanks.
Shwartz: 15-28 (3 years)
Sparano: 28-31 (4 years)
Oh so Sparano lost 3 more games, but you conveniently leave out the fact he won 13 more games LMFAO! Are you serious? You made my argument for me.
Sparano has lost more games, and most importantly, the Dolphins record with him being our head coach has gotten worse each year. The Lions record with Shwartz has improved every year. By the time Shwartz has his fourth year like Sparano, he will most likely have won more, and lost less. Thanks for playing.
Stafford was finally healthy this year. But again, they will continue to fade down the stretch with no running game and a weak defense.

Cowboys (Jason Garret)
Again, last I checked he hasn't done **** yet. But, assuming he does this year, he does have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL.

Again, you miss the point. They are better now after making a coaching change. What, did you expect me to list 30 teams that have a good head coach but no talent whatsoever? Good talent and good head coaches are correlated. I hope I don't need to explain that one to you.These teams had poor records before being taken over. And if you tell me they had a QB and we need one too, well then, you might as well state that water is a liquid. All the great teams have good head coach/QB combos.
Yea, but the Dolphins had a poor record before Sparano took them over, and I’d argue that the Dolphins are more improved than any of these teams….Oh and the Jets didn’t have a poor record before Rex got there, The Cowboys were a year removed from the playoffs.
BTW these aren’t excuses I’m just poking the obvious holes in your weak arguement
The Jets HAD a losing record in 2007 and failed to reach the playoffs in 2008. Weak argument? LOL, good way to counter valid points with your excuse machine. The Dolphins are SO much improved that we are sitting at 3-8, lost 11 straight home games, and Sparano started his 4th year 0-7. What a great coach. He definitely deserves another chance. You are making excuses, just like Sparano does every press conference. Sparano will be fired at the end of the year and rightfully so.
You are flat out wrong, there’s no other way I can say it; you have been proven wrong every step of the way, and just won’t admit it. It’s infuriating

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 07:55 PM
Other coaches had to walk into locker rooms with no knowledge of the personel and slap together a coaching staff, playbook, and game plans. And yet...they are winning games. Id say thats more adverse then an owner speaking to a coach. They handled it, Sparano didn't. Other coaches have been doubted and threatened to be fired and went on to winning seasons. Sparano hasn't.
And "the time to gel" part, virtually every team in the league had that same problem. And yet Miami is the one that has a completely trashed season. Other teams with new coaching staffs have injured players and are still winning more games. And honestly, is it to much to ask for an offense that could win us a single game out of their first 7? Apparently so. Winning 3 games and losing 8 does not equal "the plan is working and the new coach is awesome". It means something is extremely wrong.

Sparano could have cut Henne was a rookie. Hence 4 years. Should he have? No. But then again, should he have replaced him during a very deep and talented quarterback draft? Yup. But he didn't. Much like he should have cut Bobby Carpenter but didnt until other teams coaches pointed out the flaw to him. Much like he should have benched Gibril Wilson but didnt. Much like he shouldnt have signed Marc Colombo. Much like he shouldnt have blamed every offensive player for Dan Henning's mistakes. Tony Sparano should be held accountable for each of those mistakes. Tony Sparano had chances to get competant play at the quarterback position. He did not. He should be fired.

So wait, odds stacked against Tony Sparano during the first 7 games: dont count. Odds stacked against him during the last 4(against some of the worst teams in the league): totally killing it! Its arguments like this that are so hilarious. Praise be to Tony Sparano for winning 3 games when he loses 8! 3 wins totally justifies everything Tony Sparano has every done, just ignore the other 8!

Your argument is beyond amusing yet absolutely absurd. You pick and choose which parts of a season to pay attention to, you justify any fault, and the solutions that you raise are beyond rational. And when people do not agree with you, you try and take personal shots. And yet...my discussion is the one lacking substance. Right.

I'm going to leave before my head explodes....but I'll leave you with this. You still gave me no examples of a coach overcoming tougher odds than what Ross did to him this offseason. so until you do I"m not gonna justify a response to the rest of your ignorant bull****

TonyGsharp
11-26-2011, 08:06 PM
LOL, I stopped reading your post after you said the Jet's receivers suck, which include Santonio Holmes and Plaxico Burress. Sanchez is the one who sucks. There is no point in wasting my time if you don't include any substance in your "arguments" whatsoever.

The loss argument is the same as the win argument for Shwartz-Sparano, Sparano had one more year to accumulate those numbers, and you ignored the rest of the post that clearly showed the Lions are getting better with Shwartz and the Dolphins worse under Sparano. Excuses for Smith, excuses for Ryan, excuses for Garret, and ultimately excuses for Sparano.

Since you know you make no sense, the only thing you can resort to is saying "I'm wrong" and it's "infuriating" while providing no useful information. I'm glad your getting so worked up while I'm just having a blast. It's like arguing with a child :lol:

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 08:10 PM
LOL, I stopped reading your post after you said the Jet's receivers suck, which include Santonio Holmes and Plaxico Burress. Sanchez is the one who sucks. There is no point in wasting my time if you don't include any substance in your "arguments" whatsoever.

The loss argument is the same as the win argument for Shwartz-Sparano, Sparano had one more year to accumulate those numbers, and you ignored the rest of the post that clearly showed the Lions are getting better with Shwartz and the Dolphins worse under Sparano. Excuses for Smith, excuses for Ryan, excuses for Garret, and ultimately excuses for Sparano.

Since you know you make no sense, the only thing you can resort to is saying "I'm wrong" and it's "infuriating" while providing no useful information. I'm glad your getting so worked up while I'm just having a blast. It's like arguing with a child :lol:

Plaxico is terrible, watch the games, you will see that he is terrible; yea, so with one more season that Shwartz he is up a 13-3 record; and I won't concede that the Lions are much better; the largest difference has been Stafford being healthy period

it's infuriating because you don't seem to see this

tylerdolphin
11-26-2011, 08:14 PM
Name an issue another coach dealt with this season that was tougher to over come then?

See this is what I mean, you guys don't have substance, you just see things, say "me no likey" and then scream that the coach is an idiot

I'm not the only person on here who thinks Sparano is the best coach for this team. I just seem to be the only one with enough energy and time to refute all your bull**** arguments. And that's only because I have a long weekend w/ nothing to do; and somehow haven't been kicked off of here yet.

So go ahead, give me evidence to support your arguement or STFU

How about Harbaugh? Dude installed an entirely new system in a few weeks.

The evidence to support my argument is all through this thread. You just choose to blame everything on someone else. Thats a you problem, not an info problem. Hey, Im a nice guy though. Ill humor you just to prove my point.

1. Why is our Oline still **** after 4 years when Sparano is an Oline guru? Furthermore, why is Columbo starting?

2. How do you rationalize his clock management and his in game decisions. They, especially the clock management, are deplorable and announcers have pointed it out multiple times, as have many posters on here after multiple games.

3. Why do we so often outplay teams and lose? Ill tell you why...Tony Sparano. We consistently play not to lose and consistently fall just short or barely scrape a win out. Often it doesnt matter when we outplay teams. We settle for FGs and play a soft defense in the last few minutes and allow teams we should have put away a quarter ago to come back and win last second. Tell Tony to grow a pait of balls and put a team away instead of playing it safe.

4. Have you noticed we are often outcoached in the second half? You probably havent, but only because you dont want to.

5. Tony Sparano has fired all 3 of his coordinators since he has been here. First it was all Pasqualoni's fault. Then it was Bonemego or whoevers fault. Then it was all Henning's fault. Then you hear people complain about the OL coach. What exactly does Tony do? What does he bring to the table? Its always someone elses fault. The buck stops at the HC. If you have had all 3 of your coordinators fired in the last few years, something is wrong. You know that.

6. Theres the whole losing record as a HC thing...and please save me the bull**** about other great coaches who had losing records at some point. GMAFB. This Dolphins team is worlds more talented that Bill B's Browns team. Get real. When Sparano gets canned, wait and see how many teams line up to sign him as HC. Its gonna be none.

7. We have had ONE winning season in the 4 years he has been here and have gotten progressively worse each year. Tell me it isnt true. I thought we were supposed to be improving, not heading to the ****ter even faster.

8. I was at the Bill game and a Bills fan and a Bears fan were near me. The Bears fan joked with the Bills fan that at least this game might keep Sparano around. They both laughed and joked about how they hoped he wouldnt be fired and how the Dolphins will never be a consistently good team with him. Yeah...opposing fans love your boy.

Thats just off the top of my head. I didnt even talk about player acquisitions which he no doubt had some influence in. Im sure Ill think of more stuff later and add on. Feel free to defend him all you like. Just know that NOBODY shares your opinion. Not even NFL guys as will be evidenced by him not getting another HC job. Youre probably the only right person in the world though. Everyone else on earth is probably wrong. Carry on.

tylerdolphin
11-26-2011, 08:20 PM
9. he is 100% REACTIVE and never PROACTIVE. Spesh's bobby Carpenter example reminded me and there are many more examples. Henning was not replaced until it was a glaring need. He didnt realize Columbo was shot until other teams exploited him and now Fasano has to help out every damn play. He addresses issues after they manifest themselves as bleeding, infected puss filled gouges instead of taking measure to ensure we dont get cut.

Anyone feel free to add to my running list. I want this thing to hit about 20 points.

tylerdolphin
11-26-2011, 08:23 PM
Plaxico is terrible, watch the games, you will see that he is terrible; yea, so with one more season that Shwartz he is up a 13-3 record; and I won't concede that the Lions are much better; the largest difference has been Stafford being healthy period<br>
<br>
it's infuriating because you don't seem to see this

Its infuriating that you refuse to realize that Sparano would be up in Detroit running Jahvid best up the gut 20 times a game making sure that no scoring is done by his team in the last 3:00 of either half.

tylerdolphin
11-26-2011, 08:25 PM
Would tony be better with an awesome QB? Yes. Thats obvious. That still doesnt change his flaws. That still wont make him have a winning mentality. That still wont make him proactive. That still wont change his clock management. Your argument is **** my man.

Spesh
11-26-2011, 08:32 PM
I'm going to leave before my head explodes....but I'll leave you with this. You still gave me no examples of a coach overcoming tougher odds than what Ross did to him this offseason. so until you do I"m not gonna justify a response to the rest of your ignorant bull****

:lol2:

I love it. So you cannot fault what i say(because its fairly irrefutable, Sparano had chances and failed where other coaches succeeded) so you will wait until I bring up specific cases that you will try your best to oppose. You, unable to compete in this arguments much like Sparano is unable to compete on gamedays, have decided to wait until I provide you with things to reactively argue against. Sadly, there is no field goal option for this forum.

Remember, my side is the one that supposedly has no substance.

tylerdolphin
11-26-2011, 08:38 PM
:lol2:

I love it. So you cannot fault what i say(because its fairly irrefutable, Sparano had chances and failed where other coaches succeeded) so you will wait until I bring up specific cases that you will try your best to oppose. You, unable to compete in this arguments much like Sparano is unable to compete on gamedays, have decided to wait until I provide you with things to reactively argue against. Sadly, there is no field goal option for this forum.

Remember, my side is the one that supposedly has no substance.

Not to mention he asked for other examples of coaches overcoming adversity and we provided him with Harbaugh barely even having TC and not having player contact his first year as a rookie HC and somehow that not good enough. Apparently we need an example of a guy getting mauled by a bear and coaching from his hospital bed all year.

Also he fails to understand the reason Sparano was in that position of being shopped around was because he wasnt doing a good enough job in the first place. Great thread all around.

houtz
11-26-2011, 08:44 PM
I look at it this way, if Sparano didn't have his mouth around the Tuna's wiener would he have ever been a HC? Doubt it.

TonyGsharp
11-26-2011, 09:02 PM
Plaxico is terrible, watch the games, you will see that he is terrible; yea, so with one more season that Shwartz he is up a 13-3 record; and I won't concede that the Lions are much better; the largest difference has been Stafford being healthy period

it's infuriating because you don't seem to see this

It seems you won't concede anything that is correct.

No one shares your point of view and after being provided numerous rational arguments, you are infuriated because you are reaching. Really bad.

Spesh
11-26-2011, 09:27 PM
Not to mention he asked for other examples of coaches overcoming adversity and we provided him with Harbaugh barely even having TC and not having player contact his first year as a rookie HC and somehow that not good enough. Apparently we need an example of a guy getting mauled by a bear and coaching from his hospital bed all year.

Also he fails to understand the reason Sparano was in that position of being shopped around was because he wasnt doing a good enough job in the first place. Great thread all around.

Indeed. The examples of coaches having it harder then Sparano are legion. Just off the top of my head:

10) Pat Shurmur: inherits a less talented team with no offseason to not only install a West Coast offense, but also a new defense. He then quickly has to coach up a second year quarterback(who is changing offenses) but then loses his best player to injury and apparent insanity. Despite this, he has a better record than Sparano...and has also beaten him in a head to head contest.

11) Marvin Lewis: refused to resign his contract unless Mike Brown gave into his "demands" for a practice facility and more scouts(ESPN has a larger scouting department). As is his way, Brown refused and Lewis eventually gave in...only to lose his franchise quarterback. At that point Lewis reshuffles his offensive coaching staff and hires Jay Gruden, a first time coordinator at any level. On top of all that he then is forced to start a rookie quarterback. Despite all this, his team is in the playoff hunt.

12) Jack Del Rio: his owner publically announced that he will be fired unless he makes the playoffs. On top of this, their is a major shake up in the front office as their GM refuses to sign a contract extension because the owner refuses to resign anyone who works under the GM. Despite all this, they do whats right for the teams future(though they probably wont be around to enjoy the payoff) and draft a quarterback. Del Rio has been told point blank he will be fired, and yet his team is still playing hard and has the same record as we do. With a rookie quarterback.

13) Hue Jackson: gets promoted to Head Coach after a single season as their coordinator, then loses his quarterback and his pro-bowl running back has missed time due to injury. Oh, and the guy who ran the team died in the middle of the season. Despite that adversity, Jackson rolled with the punches(something Sparano has never accomplished) secured another quarterback(again, never accomplished) and is now in position to win his division.

But hey! Our owner actually spoke to another coach! My god, do you have any idea what could have happened had he spoke to 2 coaches...the insanity! The mind breaking pressure of the situation! How could this all happen to one so young!?!?!?!

Edit: added in numbers for the running list. The Op asked for examples of other coaches succeeding where Sparano has failed, and each of those situations were more adverse than anything Sparano dealt with.

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 10:53 PM
Indeed. The examples of coaches having it harder then Sparano are legion. Just off the top of my head:

10) Pat Shurmur: inherits a less talented team with no offseason to not only install a West Coast offense, but also a new defense. He then quickly has to coach up a second year quarterback(who is changing offenses) but then loses his best player to injury and apparent insanity. Despite this, he has a better record than Sparano...and has also beaten him in a head to head contest.

Shurmur had no pressure, the Browns are terrible, they've had an incredibly easy schedule and don't have a quality win...next

11) Marvin Lewis: refused to resign his contract unless Mike Brown gave into his "demands" for a practice facility and more scouts(ESPN has a larger scouting department). As is his way, Brown refused and Lewis eventually gave in...only to lose his franchise quarterback. At that point Lewis reshuffles his offensive coaching staff and hires Jay Gruden, a first time coordinator at any level. On top of all that he then is forced to start a rookie quarterback. Despite all this, his team is in the playoff hunt.

Marvin Lewis got lucky that Carson Palmer decided not to play, Andy Dalton is a much better player than Palmer (One of the many ****ty USC QBs for all you Barkley fans) and the real reason they've been winning is because of their strong defense. I think Marvin Lewis is a great coach, and he is doing a good job this year because despite a lack of success the owner has stuck with him. If he was in Miami you'dve called for him to be fired years ago. Here's an example of continuity winning out. Still don't believe his offseason was tougher.

12) Jack Del Rio: his owner publically announced that he will be fired unless he makes the playoffs. On top of this, their is a major shake up in the front office as their GM refuses to sign a contract extension because the owner refuses to resign anyone who works under the GM. Despite all this, they do whats right for the teams future(though they probably wont be around to enjoy the payoff) and draft a quarterback. Del Rio has been told point blank he will be fired, and yet his team is still playing hard and has the same record as we do. With a rookie quarterback.

Del Rio is a bad coach, Jacksonville is a terrible place to play, they arguably have the only fan base in the NFL worse than Miami's. Not to mention this is an example of a coach NOT succeeding because his owner showed a lack of support in the offseason. Next...

13) Hue Jackson: gets promoted to Head Coach after a single season as their coordinator, then loses his quarterback and his pro-bowl running back has missed time due to injury. Oh, and the guy who ran the team died in the middle of the season. Despite that adversity, Jackson rolled with the punches(something Sparano has never accomplished) secured another quarterback(again, never accomplished) and is now in position to win his division.

The Raiders aren't that good, and we'll prove that when we beat them next week. They mortgaged their future (2 1st rounders) for a terrible QB (Carson Palmer) although they're 6-4 right now I highly doubt they make the playoffs and they will continue to get worse as Palmer's arm strength deteriorates even further and they miss out on picking up 1st round talent for 2 years. His offseason was still not as tough as Sparano's because he was a first year coach with no expectations or pressure playing in the worst division in football the AFC West.

But hey! Our owner actually spoke to another coach! My god, do you have any idea what could have happened had he spoke to 2 coaches...the insanity! The mind breaking pressure of the situation! How could this all happen to one so young!?!?!?!

So basically none of these examples are tougher offseason situations than Sparano faced. Nice try, but all wrong nonetheless.

Edit: added in numbers for the running list. The Op asked for examples of other coaches succeeding where Sparano has failed, and each of those situations were more adverse than anything Sparano dealt with.

Look Sparano has made great decisions when necessary, whenever we've had a problem he's fixed it and done a great job. D coordinator (Nolan) O coordinator (Daboll) need a #1 WR (Marshall) need athletic LBs (Dansby, Wake, Burnett) need a seam threat at TE opposite Fasano (Clay) Need big playmakers (Bush, Gates)

So now that Henne hasn't worked out, it's obvious our glaring need is QB, I want the guy who has done a great job fixing problems to be in charge of that search.

Phinatic8u
11-26-2011, 11:00 PM
People really need to stop comparing Barkley to the other USC QBs. Its a stupid uneducated argument.

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 11:14 PM
How about Harbaugh? Dude installed an entirely new system in a few weeks.

The evidence to support my argument is all through this thread. You just choose to blame everything on someone else. Thats a you problem, not an info problem. Hey, Im a nice guy though. Ill humor you just to prove my point.

1. Why is our Oline still **** after 4 years when Sparano is an Oline guru? Furthermore, why is Columbo starting?

Our O-Line isn't ****ty, Jake Long and Pouncy are pillars for years to come, and Columbo is obviously a stop gap until we find a suitable replacement. If our o-line was so terrible Reggie Bush wouldn't be having the best season he's ever had. I will contend that a majority of the sacks we've taken have been the QB's fault. Listen this is the NFL, you have to get the ball out on time. The only person who can stand back there untouched is Tom Brady because the refs allow the Patriots to hold.

2. How do you rationalize his clock management and his in game decisions. They, especially the clock management, are deplorable and announcers have pointed it out multiple times, as have many posters on here after multiple games.

He's had a few major clock gaffs I'll grant you, the most egregious was against the Saints a couple of years ago, where he called the timeout at the end of the first half allowing the Saints to score. He hasn't made any major clock management gaffs this year though.

3. Why do we so often outplay teams and lose? Ill tell you why...Tony Sparano. We consistently play not to lose and consistently fall just short or barely scrape a win out. Often it doesnt matter when we outplay teams. We settle for FGs and play a soft defense in the last few minutes and allow teams we should have put away a quarter ago to come back and win last second. Tell Tony to grow a pait of balls and put a team away instead of playing it safe.

You guys are still holding on to this idea that we play "not to lose" still. Listen that was the first 3 years when Henning was our coordinator. We got rid of him, and have been much more aggressive this year. How else do you explain us blowing 2 teams out by 30 points?? That would've never happened with Henning at coordinator. The players have not executed well at the end of close games. Case and point, 3rd and 7 this past Thursday night, when Matt Moore threw it behind a wide open Bess. Not to mention, if he doesn't miss the open recievers in the end zone earlier in the game, we're never in that position


4. Have you noticed we are often outcoached in the second half? You probably havent, but only because you dont want to.

That's bull****, I simply don't agree with this statement.

5. Tony Sparano has fired all 3 of his coordinators since he has been here. First it was all Pasqualoni's fault. Then it was Bonemego or whoevers fault. Then it was all Henning's fault. Then you hear people complain about the OL coach. What exactly does Tony do? What does he bring to the table? Its always someone elses fault. The buck stops at the HC. If you have had all 3 of your coordinators fired in the last few years, something is wrong. You know that.

All 3 coordinators who were handpicked by one Bill Parcells. Every single hire that Sparano has made to replace the coordinators has been the right hire. You know that!

6. Theres the whole losing record as a HC thing...and please save me the bull**** about other great coaches who had losing records at some point. GMAFB. This Dolphins team is worlds more talented that Bill B's Browns team. Get real. When Sparano gets canned, wait and see how many teams line up to sign him as HC. Its gonna be none.

Bill B's Browns aren't the only team with a losing record w/ out a solid starting QB. My whole point is give him a QB and we'll be winning championships.

7. We have had ONE winning season in the 4 years he has been here and have gotten progressively worse each year. Tell me it isnt true. I thought we were supposed to be improving, not heading to the ****ter even faster.

Our team hasn't been progressively worse, the rest of our team has gotten better while the QB position has become progressively worse. So if that is fixed next year we will be much better. You can't look at our roster now vs. 08 and say we're not much better. You can't watch our team play and tell me we're not a better team. Give him a QB and watch what happens.

8. I was at the Bill game and a Bills fan and a Bears fan were near me. The Bears fan joked with the Bills fan that at least this game might keep Sparano around. They both laughed and joked about how they hoped he wouldnt be fired and how the Dolphins will never be a consistently good team with him. Yeah...opposing fans love your boy.

Oh yea cuz Bills fans and Bears fans are the smartest people around :rolleyes2: please. I'm assuming they are from the South Florida and read the dribble your ****ty columnists write. Omar, mando, etc. have NO football knowledge whatsoever, they were the nerds that didn't make the football team, and think they know what's going on because they watch the games and talking head shows. Please, if you can't tell I'm not a big believer in following sheep to the slaughter. And that's the main problem with this board. There's a few people who make legitimate arguments/ points (i'll include you as one of those) and then everyone else jumps on the bandwagon, makes stupid quips, but when it comes time to explain their reasoning they are at a loss for words. They say Tony ****** because it's fashionable, they're the idiots at the cocktail party desperate for approval.

Thats just off the top of my head. I didnt even talk about player acquisitions which he no doubt had some influence in. Im sure Ill think of more stuff later and add on. Feel free to defend him all you like. Just know that NOBODY shares your opinion. Not even NFL guys as will be evidenced by him not getting another HC job. Youre probably the only right person in the world though. Everyone else on earth is probably wrong. Carry on.

While some of your points are valid, I believe he's addressed all of his problems. I think everyone is entitled to mistakes, the fact is everyone makes em, people who succeed are excellent at correcting these mistakes, and I believe Tony has proved he excels at it.

---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 PM ----------


People really need to stop comparing Barkley to the other USC QBs. Its a stupid uneducated argument.

How so?

Gonzo
11-26-2011, 11:43 PM
While some of your points are valid, I believe he's addressed all of his problems. I think everyone is entitled to mistakes, the fact is everyone makes em, people who succeed are excellent at correcting these mistakes, and I believe Tony has proved he excels at it.

---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 PM ----------



How so?It's a totally legitimate comparison. I can't tell you how happy I am that we didn't draft the next Kyle Boller: Aaron Rodgers.

WesternNYDolfan
11-26-2011, 11:52 PM
It's a totally legitimate comparison. I can't tell you how happy I am that we didn't draft the next Kyle Boller: Aaron Rodgers.

Listen, as I explained earlier, no other school has provided a sample size of overhyped QB's than USC, and it makes sense, it has to do with their piss poor attitudes and lack of leadership qualities. Their growth and ability to lead by example is stunted by the Hollywood like campus they grow in.

Gonzo
11-26-2011, 11:57 PM
Listen, as I explained earlier, no other school has provided a sample size of overhyped QB's than USC, and it makes sense, it has to do with their piss poor attitudes and lack of leadership qualities. Their growth and ability to lead by example is stunted by the Hollywood like campus they grow in.Cool. I'll exclude Kyle Boller then. How about the next Pat Barnes? Dave Barr? Mike Pawlawski? Troy Taylor? Ken O'Brien?

No worries KC, Palko is definitely the next Marino.

WesternNYDolfan
11-27-2011, 12:05 AM
Cool. I'll exclude Kyle Boller then. How about the next Pat Barnes? Dave Barr? Mike Pawlawski? Troy Taylor? Ken O'Brien?

No worries KC, Palko is definitely the next Marino.

Listen man, your grasping at straws to make me look like an idiot, but you're making yourself look like one.

The similarities in Palmer, Booty, Leinart, and Sanchez are undeniable; particularly Palmer, Leinart, and Sanchez, as overhyped QB prospects who benefited from being on supremely talented football teams. Leinart and Sanchez both exhibited the same type of attitudes that Barkley has, and both of their attitudes have proved to be their undoing in the NFL.

Spesh
11-27-2011, 12:08 AM
Look Sparano has made great decisions when necessary, whenever we've had a problem he's fixed it and done a great job. D coordinator (Nolan) O coordinator (Daboll) need a #1 WR (Marshall) need athletic LBs (Dansby, Wake, Burnett) need a seam threat at TE opposite Fasano (Clay) Need big playmakers (Bush, Gates)

So now that Henne hasn't worked out, it's obvious our glaring need is QB, I want the guy who has done a great job fixing problems to be in charge of that search.

Welcome back, glad your head didnt explode, though it is amusing that you could not stand up with your own argument and had to do exactly what i suggested: wait until i provide you with examples that you will attempt to refute. Your response was very creative and impressive: "They suck, they got lucky and you would have rooted against him anyways, they suck, they aren't that good". Amazing! How can i stand up against such adversity?!?! Suppose i could be like Sparano and lay down on the job...but alas, here i go.

I listed 2 examples of an owner directly causing damage to their team, another example of their owner dying on the job, and an example of a rookie coach rebuilding the entire team and losing his best player. And yet, all those things don't equal the emotional heart ache that poor old Tony Sparano had to go through because his owner actually, incrediably, spoke to another human being that just so happened to be a coach. OH THE HUMANITY!
Despite the outstanding counter argument you provided, you missed one thing: all those teams are doing better or as good as Miami. The coach you called "bad"(Del Rio) literally has the same record as Miami despite having a worse team and using a rookie quarterback. Del Rio was given an ultimatium by his owner and that was because(like Sparano) he has had extremely little success in previous seasons. And yet, Del Rio still did the right thing by trying to secure the quarterback position then coaching up that player. What did Sparano do in the face of adversity? Draft a center and continued kicking field goals. Hue Jackson? Only has his team in first place of his division despite the death of his owner. Can you say the same about Miami?

Sparano has not made "great decisions when necessary". How in gods name do you call supporting Henning and bashing our offensive players a "great decision"? How do you call hiring Daboll a "great job" when we have lost 8 out of 11 games? It honestly doesn't matter what holes Sparano has filled(hilarious that you credit Sparano with Cameron Wake...especially when Sparano himself admitted he made a mistake by benching Wake so much during his first season) since he hasnt fixed the biggest one: quarterback. By the way, when was Gates labeled a playmaker this season? Must have missed that.

"So now that Henne hasn't worked out, its obvious our glaring need is QB"........Freaking really? This must be a Tony Sparano thing, because people on this forum figured this out a year ago. How is it, as Sparano is some superior genius coaching material, that we now need a quarterback? How was this problem not glaring obvious a year ago? How come it takes a total train wreck to point out to our coaching staff which position is a weakness?
Andy Reid has made a science of trading away players before they fall apart. Even Belicheat has figured out when to get rid of players(Randy Moss for a 3rd rounder in the middle of the season?). And yet, this amazingly awesome head coach that we currently have cannot figure out that "hey, i might not have a quarterback". This inspirational source of coaching guru-ness cant figure out that Bobby Carpenter and Marc Colombo might not be the best fit for his team until weeeeell after other teams blow those players up.

Yeah, new coaches that had no offseason, owners admitting they would fire them, coaches that lost franchise quarterbacks, and coaches who's owner died while running the team all faced less adversity than Tony Sparano. Why? Because our owner actually spoke to another coach. And that means Sparano shouldnt be faulted for a 3-8 record. Because, like, he has totally done alot of good before. You can tell that by the multiple losing seasons in the past.

Spesh
11-27-2011, 12:13 AM
Listen man, your grasping at straws to make me look like an idiot, but you're making yourself look like one.

The similarities in Palmer, Booty, Leinart, and Sanchez are undeniable; particularly Palmer, Leinart, and Sanchez, as overhyped QB prospects who benefited from being on supremely talented football teams. Leinart and Sanchez both exhibited the same type of attitudes that Barkley has, and both of their attitudes have proved to be their undoing in the NFL.

If he is, it isnt that difficult of a task.

There is very little comparability between Barkley and John David Booty. To judge quarterbacks because they go to the same school is the same as comparing coaches because they lack franchise quarterbacks at times......Whoops!

For the record, you do know that while Leinhart was obsessed with partying it up and stayed in school to get trashed and hit on cheerleaders Matt Barkley was busy spending his time as quarterback going to help run orphanages in South Africa...right?

Spesh
11-27-2011, 12:22 AM
Each year it's been a different coordinator's fault. This year he need a QB, because apparently he's the only head coach in the NFL that has zero say in personnel decisions...unless they're good personnel decisions of course, I bet his name was written all over bringing in Cam Wake.



he's fixed it and done a great job. D coordinator (Nolan) O coordinator (Daboll) need a #1 WR (Marshall) need athletic LBs (Dansby, Wake, Burnett)

You called it, so im bringing up the quote from 5 pages ago. Well played sir.

WesternNYDolfan
11-27-2011, 12:30 AM
Welcome back, glad your head didnt explode, though it is amusing that you could not stand up with your own argument and had to do exactly what i suggested: wait until i provide you with examples that you will attempt to refute. Your response was very creative and impressive: "They suck, they got lucky and you would have rooted against him anyways, they suck, they aren't that good". Amazing! How can i stand up against such adversity?!?! Suppose i could be like Sparano and lay down on the job...but alas, here i go.

I listed 2 examples of an owner directly causing damage to their team, another example of their owner dying on the job, and an example of a rookie coach rebuilding the entire team and losing his best player. And yet, all those things don't equal the emotional heart ache that poor old Tony Sparano had to go through because his owner actually, incrediably, spoke to another human being that just so happened to be a coach. OH THE HUMANITY!

AGAIN, none of these scenerios are as bad. Imagine you are in a marriage and your wife started talking to other possible husbands while you were still married and you had to find out about it through the news???? This would probably effect you more than if your wife told you, I'm going to divorce you at the end of the year if you don't get your **** together! To further explain this through marriage analogies, the Marvin Lewis situation is like you asking your wife for a boob job, and if you can go play poker with your friends every saturday, she says no; and you decide since it'll probably be tough to get a wife as good as her, you'll stay in the relationship. Again, not tougher than your wife courting other prospective husbands behind your back. Hue Jackson, and Shurmur were both first year coaches with no pressure. The owner dying during the season has nothing to do with the offseason, and again the Raiders are in first place in the WORST division in football.
Despite the outstanding counter argument you provided, you missed one thing: all those teams are doing better or as good as Miami. The coach you called "bad"(Del Rio) literally has the same record as Miami despite having a worse team and using a rookie quarterback. Del Rio was given an ultimatium by his owner and that was because(like Sparano) he has had extremely little success in previous seasons. And yet, Del Rio still did the right thing by trying to secure the quarterback position then coaching up that player. What did Sparano do in the face of adversity? Draft a center and continued kicking field goals. Hue Jackson? Only has his team in first place of his division despite the death of his owner. Can you say the same about Miami?

Oh yea, Del Rio seems to have drafted a real gem too! Thank god we didn't try to draft Gabbert, he's terrible. Instead we got a future all pro at center. QB was not a GLARING need, Henne was a question mark, but if you draft a QB in the first round you totally ruin him, and he'll never be good. So you give him a season, with a wide open offense to prove his meddle. Up until the injury he was playing the best football of his career.

Sparano has not made "great decisions when necessary". How in gods name do you call supporting Henning and bashing our offensive players a "great decision"? How do you call hiring Daboll a "great job" when we have lost 8 out of 11 games? It honestly doesn't matter what holes Sparano has filled(hilarious that you credit Sparano with Cameron Wake...especially when Sparano himself admitted he made a mistake by benching Wake so much during his first season) since he hasnt fixed the biggest one: quarterback. By the way, when was Gates labeled a playmaker this season? Must have missed that.

"So now that Henne hasn't worked out, its obvious our glaring need is QB"........Freaking really? This must be a Tony Sparano thing, because people on this forum figured this out a year ago. How is it, as Sparano is some superior genius coaching material, that we now need a quarterback? How was this problem not glaring obvious a year ago? How come it takes a total train wreck to point out to our coaching staff which position is a weakness?
Andy Reid has made a science of trading away players before they fall apart. Even Belicheat has figured out when to get rid of players(Randy Moss for a 3rd rounder in the middle of the season?). And yet, this amazingly awesome head coach that we currently have cannot figure out that "hey, i might not have a quarterback". This inspirational source of coaching guru-ness cant figure out that Bobby Carpenter and Marc Colombo might not be the best fit for his team until weeeeell after other teams blow those players up.

You keep bringing up two terrible personale decisions, like no one in the NFL makes mistakes. Let's take Belicheat for instance who gave up draft picks for Haynesworth and Ochocinco; cut both starting safties in the offseason, now he has a receiver playing DB, yet it's all covered up by Tom Brady!
Look at the Colts without Peyton Manning? Jesus. Fact is, you need a QB to win. That's what we're looking for now.
Plus if you're going to discredit him for those decisions, why don't you credit him for the good ones? Getting rid of players in time i.e. Joey Porter, Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams. Good draft picks, Vontae Davis, Jake Long, Pouncy, Clay, Thomas, K. Langford, Odrick, Hartline....UFA's like Davone Bess Great FA Acquisitions, B Marshall, Dansby, R. Bush, Fasano, Randy Starks. Keeping the right guys: B Fields, Y Bell....No one since Jimmy Johnson has been better with personal decisions. The good far outweighs the bad.
Yeah, new coaches that had no offseason, owners admitting they would fire them, coaches that lost franchise quarterbacks, and coaches who's owner died while running the team all faced less adversity than Tony Sparano. Why? Because our owner actually spoke to another coach. And that means Sparano shouldnt be faulted for a 3-8 record. Because, like, he has totally done alot of good before. You can tell that by the multiple losing seasons in the past.

Listen, I'm fighting every urge in my soul to not tell you EXACTLY like it is. But the fact of the matter is you are wrong, as I continue to refute everything you say.

Spesh
11-27-2011, 12:43 AM
Listen, I'm fighting every urge in my soul to not tell you EXACTLY like it is. But the fact of the matter is you are wrong, as I continue to refute everything you say.

:lol2::lol2::lol2:

So now MARRIAGE is involved! I LOVE IT. You mean the same kind of marriage like when you marry a woman and then she decides to sell her stake in the stadium and leaves you with her really incompetant and vicious sister but your suppose to stay in that relationship? That marriage?

Man, you are hilarious. I mean it, i really want to nominate you for poster of the year(and i probably will). You cannot sell people on the idea of staying with Sparano. Your reasonable expected course of action is for us to go out and find a hall of fame quarterback. You expect us to ignore the 8 losses in favor of the 3 wins.

But, oh wait! We have a future all pro center! THANK GOD! That will certainly assure of us more wins!........oh wait. We have just seen what competant center play will get us. I'm more focused on competant quarterback play.

You jump from comparison to comparison and only look at the good ones to support your argument, all the while ignoring the bad ones unless they lead to what you suggest. Matt Barkley(continuously contributes to charities) is the next Matt Leinhart(hasn't been sober since his 15th birthday). I mean, my god, you just brought up a marriage comparison. Please keep posting, i cant stop laughing.

edit: either i missed it(was laughing pretty hard) or you edited it in, but "getting rid of players in time"? Porter was kept to long and Sparano benched Wake in his favor, only got rid of him after Joey went public multiple times...and even then our front office screwed up by trying to cut him when we didn't have the cap space, took us 2 tries. Ronnie had the last year of his contract extended(due to a deal in his rookie contract). Ricky kept getting extension offers and only stopped receiving them after he went public with his problems with Sparano.

Vaark
11-27-2011, 12:52 AM
Actually there are more successes of USC QBs (Carson Palmer) transitioning to the NFL than there are of Dallas OL Position Coaches (or any OL position coach) being leapfrogged 2 levels up directly to HC. It was a bad idea for Tony who from an experience background was over his head as he was from an intellectual capacity. Not to suggest that all OL position coaches are too dense to be HCs, more that even the more astute ones need to prove themselves in a coordinator capacity first. From an empirical basis, promoting OL position coaches directly to HC breeds failure.

It wasn't satisfying enough to become this thread's pin cushion, so you had to offer yourself up also as the Barkley poll thread pinata, eh?

WesternNYDolfan
11-27-2011, 01:01 AM
:lol2::lol2::lol2:

So now MARRIAGE is involved! I LOVE IT. You mean the same kind of marriage like when you marry a woman and then she decides to sell her stake in the stadium and leaves you with her really incompetant and vicious sister but your suppose to stay in that relationship? That marriage?

Man, you are hilarious. I mean it, i really want to nominate you for poster of the year(and i probably will). You cannot sell people on the idea of staying with Sparano. Your reasonable expected course of action is for us to go out and find a hall of fame quarterback. You expect us to ignore the 8 losses in favor of the 3 wins.

But, oh wait! We have a future all pro center! THANK GOD! That will certainly assure of us more wins!........oh wait. We have just seen what competant center play will get us. I'm more focused on competant quarterback play.

You jump from comparison to comparison and only look at the good ones to support your argument, all the while ignoring the bad ones unless they lead to what you suggest. Matt Barkley(continuously contributes to charities) is the next Matt Leinhart(hasn't been sober since his 15th birthday). I mean, my god, you just brought up a marriage comparison. Please keep posting, i cant stop laughing.


Say whatever the **** you want about the marriage comparison. You know I'm right.

Let's take it to your job.

Say at the local McDonalds you flip burgers at, your boss tells you you'll be fired by the end of the year if you don't start getting better at building your burgers , that's the Jack Del Rio scenario.

Now say at this same McDonalds you've been working at for years, with average results at best, sometimes customers complain; but the resturaunt isn't going out of business. So you decide to ask your manager for a better spatula, and cashiers to help during your shift. Your manager says no. But since you haven't graduated high school and you know the local Burger King and Wendy's aren't hiring you decide to stay...that's the Marvin Lewis scenerio.

Now let's say when you first started working at your Micky D's it was known as one of the worst in the country; so you come in to flip burgers and actually start doing okay? That's the Pat Shurmur scenerio.

Now take that same scenario, except, the manager was once considered one of the best McDonalds managers in the country back in the late 70s and early 80s, yet his age and ineptness led to the current state of the McDonalds; and then your manager chokes on a french fry and dies, yet you still do okay flipping burgers....that's the Hue Jackson scenario.

Now imagine, you've been working at the Micky D's for a couple years, the first year you turned around the location after the resturaunt nearly went without a sale the year before you got there. Despite overbearing fry cooks, and senior citizen cashiers, your burger flipping helped bring in respectable returns. Then one day before your fourth year with the company, the fry cook from the night shift tells you he saw the owner interviewing new burger flippers??? The Sparano scenario.

Out of all these situations, which one would upset you most? Probably the one where the owner is interviewing to replace your job without even letting you know. At least in the Del Rio scenario, you know you can save your job by flipping burgers better. In the Shurmur and Jackson scenarios, you've only been working there for a short time so there's not a lot expected of you and in the Lewis scenario, you probably knew you weren't gonna get the spatula and cashiers, but figured it was worth a try.

There can you relate to that a bit better?

WesternNYDolfan
11-27-2011, 01:02 AM
Actually there are more successes of USC QBs (Carson Palmer) transitioning to the NFL than there are of Dallas OL Position Coaches (or any OL position coach) being leapfrogged 2 levels up directly to HC. It was a bad idea for Tony who from an experience background was over his head as he was from an intellectual capacity. Not to suggest that all OL position coaches are too dense to be HCs, more that even the more astute ones need to prove themselves in a coordinator capacity first. From an empirical basis, promoting OL position coaches directly to HC breeds failure.

It wasn't satisfying enough to become this thread's pin cushion, so you had to offer yourself up also as the Barkley poll thread pinata, eh?

Somebody has to be the voice of reason on this board full of cynical blowhards

BobDole
11-27-2011, 01:07 AM
Somebody has to be the voice of reason on this board full of cynical blowhards

well ... it isn't you.

Spesh
11-27-2011, 01:17 AM
Out of all these situations, which one would upset you most? Probably the one where the owner is interviewing to replace your job without even letting you know. At least in the Del Rio scenario, you know you can save your job by flipping burgers better. In the Shurmur and Jackson scenarios, you've only been working there for a short time so there's not a lot expected of you and in the Lewis scenario, you probably knew you weren't gonna get the spatula and cashiers, but figured it was worth a try.

There can you relate to that a bit better?

None of those at all. As ive been in a similar situation id tell the owner(or in this case, what, day manager?) if he could find someone better then by all means do so. But good "freaking" luck, as im not easily replacable and my work shows that.

Id understand(much like Zach Thomas did during his retirement speech) that the game is bigger then me and it owes me nothing. Id understand that if i didnt get results my *** would be on the street. And Tony Sparano has not gotten results. Well, he has, but they have been awful.

Much like i indicated above, i never feel i "deserve" special exceptions. Either i do what i need to do to have a job or i do not deserve that job. You are indicating that Tony Sparano deserves that job because........well....just because he deserves it. He certainly hasn't proved that. He certainly hasn't shown he can handle adversity. He certainly hasnt shown that he can pull it together and do a damn good job later. But according to you the fact that he is around and he has collected a paycheck and he will collect a paycheck is deserving enough. He has had very bad results but given enough surrounding burger flipping talent he might turn out a profit...eventually.

Yeah, not very convincing. Go back to the marriage comparisons.

Phinatic8u
11-27-2011, 01:21 AM
God. This is the thread of the year. Im literally laughing my *** off. Dude you are ****ing hilarious.

Phinatic8u
11-27-2011, 01:30 AM
If you want to use "real life" comparisions. Here's one.

I started my carrer at 17 1/2 years old, I am now 22 years old and running a office making $125,000 a year. Wanna know how? By working my ****ing *** and and improving myself in everything we do at work, I was once a ******* 18 year old that got chewed out by my boss, which happend to be my father at the time, ****ing off, being the "boss's son". You know what happend, I almost got fired, by being a blowhard at work, they gave me 6 months to be a man and prove to them I was worthy of learning the craft of NDT. Since then I have learned from my mistakes, grew as a inspector, started being wanted all over the country & even the world, supervising jobs, and now I chew people out and fire people who don't perform to expectations, and Its usally alot less than the 4 years Tony has had.

Point is, if you don't perform at your craft, you shouldn't be employed anymore.

Vaark
11-27-2011, 01:30 AM
The Yin to NYjunk's yang. I think junky may be in danger of relinquishing his "spin meister" badge, eh?

WesternNYDolfan
11-27-2011, 01:36 AM
None of those at all. As ive been in a similar situation id tell the owner(or in this case, what, day manager?) if he could find someone better then by all means do so. But good "freaking" luck, as im not easily replacable and my work shows that.

Id understand(much like Zach Thomas did during his retirement speech) that the game is bigger then me and it owes me nothing. Id understand that if i didnt get results my *** would be on the street. And Tony Sparano has not gotten results. Well, he has, but they have been awful.

Much like i indicated above, i never feel i "deserve" special exceptions. Either i do what i need to do to have a job or i do not deserve that job. You are indicating that Tony Sparano deserves that job because........well....just because he deserves it. He certainly hasn't proved that. He certainly hasn't shown he can handle adversity. He certainly hasnt shown that he can pull it together and do a damn good job later. But according to you the fact that he is around and he has collected a paycheck and he will collect a paycheck is deserving enough. He has had very bad results but given enough surrounding burger flipping talent he might turn out a profit...eventually.

Yeah, not very convincing. Go back to the marriage comparisons.


Are you a female? Serious question. Because this is a respect issue and I find females tend not to grasp that concept. Doing what Ross did shows a complete lack of respect for Sparano. Sparano's players see this and are at first skeptical that he deserves their respect. As the season progresses they see despite the screams for his head are getting louder Sparano is giving his 110%, so the team follows suit and plays their *** off for him over the past 6-7 weeks. The type of respect Sparano's earned this season with his players is invaluable. If you can't see that, then I guess you don't know much about A) team sports or B) and this is the important part being a man...which is why I prefaced this post with the original question pertaining to your sex.

WesternNYDolfan
11-27-2011, 01:46 AM
If you want to use "real life" comparisions. Here's one.

I started my carrer at 17 1/2 years old, I am now 22 years old and running a office making $125,000 a year. Wanna know how? By working my ****ing *** and and improving myself in everything we do at work, I was once a ******* 18 year old that got chewed out by my boss, which happend to be my father at the time, ****ing off, being the "boss's son". You know what happend, I almost got fired, by being a blowhard at work, they gave me 6 months to be a man and prove to them I was worthy of learning the craft of NDT. Since then I have learned from my mistakes, grew as a inspector, started being wanted all over the country & even the world, supervising jobs, and now I chew people out and fire people who don't perform to expectations, and Its usally alot less than the 4 years Tony has had.

Point is, if you don't perform at your craft, you shouldn't be employed anymore.

Well youngin' I'm 27 and I have a great career in the financial world. I have been in the professional world for 8 years, I know how things work on both sides of the coin. So I can relate.

Point is, your father told you to stop ****ing off; he didn't start looking for your replacement while you were still employed did he?

Now I will agree that performances is key in business. I get that excuses are like *******s, everyone has one and most of em stink; however I don't believe Sparano's performance warrants him being fired if you compare his performance to other "businesses" fact is, he has a great product, but his pitchman sucks. The first 'pitchman' he had showed promise, but then he got all ****ed up on pain killers this season. You don't want to fully blame him for the pitchman, as the board of directors forced this guy down his throat. So, you give him a chance to hire a new pitchman, because he's done such a good job with the product. It would be cheaper and more efficient than going out and hiring a new guy to redevelop the product which would set the company back years!

EmperorPhin
11-27-2011, 01:48 AM
Are you a female? Serious question. Because this is a respect issue and I find females tend not to grasp that concept. Doing what Ross did shows a complete lack of respect for Sparano. Sparano's players see this and are at first skeptical that he deserves their respect. As the season progresses they see despite the screams for his head are getting louder Sparano is giving his 110%, so the team follows suit and plays their *** off for him over the past 6-7 weeks. The type of respect Sparano's earned this season with his players is invaluable. If you can't see that, then I guess you don't know much about A) team sports or B) and this is the important part being a man...which is why I prefaced this post with the original question pertaining to your sex.
While your trying to get a date from a female finheaven member Barkley just threw his 6td and broke the pac 12 season record for tds

Phinatic8u
11-27-2011, 01:52 AM
Well youngin' I'm 27 and I have a great career in the financial world. I have been in the professional world for 8 years, I know how things work on both sides of the coin. So I can relate.

Point is, your father told you to stop ****ing off; he didn't start looking for your replacement while you were still employed did he?

Now I will agree that performances is key in business. I get that excuses are like *******s, everyone has one and most of em stink; however I don't believe Sparano's performance warrants him being fired if you compare his performance to other "businesses" fact is, he has a great product, but his pitchman sucks. The first 'pitchman' he had showed promise, but then he got all ****ed up on pain killers this season. You don't want to fully blame him for the pitchman, as the board of directors forced this guy down his throat. So, you give him a chance to hire a new pitchman, because he's done such a good job with the product. It would be cheaper and more efficient than going out and hiring a new guy to redevelop the product which would set the company back years!

No, but in my career, we need all the help we can get, nobody really nows about NDT unless you need it, we don't have people lining up to do this ****.

Phinatic8u
11-27-2011, 01:53 AM
And that I can agree with, his pitchman does suck. Ireland really needs to go.

WesternNYDolfan
11-27-2011, 01:56 AM
While your trying to get a date from a female finheaven member Barkley just threw his 6td and broke the pac 12 season record for tds

OMG!!! Really??? HOLD THE PHONE!!! Get the **** out of Dodge!!!!! 6 TDS!!!!! U freaking CLA!!!! Their Vaunted DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow PAC 12 Record, all those tough defenses!!!!!! You never see anyone score that much in the Pac 12!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOLY ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I take back everything I said!!!!!!!!!

OH, wait, so TD passes against weak defenses are exciting now.......so let's trade our whole entire draft and pick up Case Keenum or Kellen Moore!

WesternNYDolfan
11-27-2011, 01:58 AM
No, but in my career, we need all the help we can get, nobody really nows about NDT unless you need it, we don't have people lining up to do this ****.

What the hell is NDT??? and my condolences on Clemson tonight, must be a rough a weekend for you...I really thought Clemson was gonna win the National 'ship about 4 weeks ago; hopefully they can knock of Va Tech again. Rough year for you overall, Atlanta! wow nice September...well on the bright side the Heat are gonna start playing again and LeBron will be able to choke something away...I joke I kid...I was serious about the Clemson thing tho, I do like Sammy Watkins

Phinatic8u
11-27-2011, 01:59 AM
OMG!!! Really??? HOLD THE PHONE!!! Get the **** out of Dodge!!!!! 6 TDS!!!!! U freaking CLA!!!! Their Vaunted DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow PAC 12 Record, all those tough defenses!!!!!! You never see anyone score that much in the Pac 12!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOLY ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I take back everything I said!!!!!!!!!

OH, wait, so TD passes against weak defenses are exciting now.......so let's trade our whole entire draft and pick up Case Keenum or Kellen Moore!

You do know Andrew Luck plays in the Pac-12 to right?

Spesh
11-27-2011, 02:01 AM
Are you a female? Serious question. Because this is a respect issue and I find females tend not to grasp that concept. Doing what Ross did shows a complete lack of respect for Sparano. Sparano's players see this and are at first skeptical that he deserves their respect. As the season progresses they see despite the screams for his head are getting louder Sparano is giving his 110%, so the team follows suit and plays their *** off for him over the past 6-7 weeks. The type of respect Sparano's earned this season with his players is invaluable. If you can't see that, then I guess you don't know much about A) team sports or B) and this is the important part being a man...which is why I prefaced this post with the original question pertaining to your sex.

So you cannot compete with the argument so you question my gender. Hilarious!!!! This thread is the best thing to happen to finheaven since the "fake jersey" thread.

You cannot figure out that "those who deserve their job will keep their job".

For the record, i am a man. The fact that i have previous posted concerning information from the Tampa Bay Bucs, who i had close friends working in(and Cincy Reds, and a few minor league hockey teams...but thats baseball/hockey and therefore inferior) should prove that i...well, understand team sports.

You seriously cannot come up with a legitimate argument can you? You cannot prove a single point of positive information concerning Tony Sparano? Instead you try and jump onto a logic fallacy called "Ad Hominem". You cannot dispute anything i say, so you go for the poster himself.

Nothing you can come up with overcomes the fact that this team is 3-8. Tony Sparano has proven he cannot win games. And in the NFL thats all that matters. Not some moral victory about "lack of respect".

WesternNYDolfan
11-27-2011, 02:03 AM
And that I can agree with, his pitchman does suck. Ireland really needs to go.

Eh, I think the real problem with the "board" is already gone. Ireland's done well in his first offseason.

WesternNYDolfan
11-27-2011, 02:04 AM
You do know Andrew Luck plays in the Pac-12 to right?

Yea, but Luck isn't a USC QB, Luck's team runs more of a ball control offense, and his stats aren't really what people are drooling over

WesternNYDolfan
11-27-2011, 02:12 AM
So you cannot compete with the argument so you question my gender. Hilarious!!!! This thread is the best thing to happen to finheaven since the "fake jersey" thread.

You cannot figure out that "those who deserve their job will keep their job".

For the record, i am a man. The fact that i have previous posted concerning information from the Tampa Bay Bucs, who i had close friends working in(and Cincy Reds, and a few minor league hockey teams...but thats baseball/hockey and therefore inferior) should prove that i...well, understand team sports.

You seriously cannot come up with a legitimate argument can you? You cannot prove a single point of positive information concerning Tony Sparano? Instead you try and jump onto a logic fallacy called "Ad Hominem". You cannot dispute anything i say, so you go for the poster himself.

Nothing you can come up with overcomes the fact that this team is 3-8. Tony Sparano has proven he cannot win games. And in the NFL thats all that matters. Not some moral victory about "lack of respect".

I'm not attacking you at all. The female question was a real question.

Still you seem not to grasp the importance of respect.

Nor does having friends who work for sports teams qualify you to speak on the coach/ player dynamics in team sports. That's like me saying a friend of mine works at the museum, so I can speak intelligently about archaeology.

I'm not trying to attack you, I'm attacking your lack of a real argument, by refuting your dumb arguments.

I've already spoke to the 3-8 record. I'm not going to continue making points to someone who would never possibly be able to 'fathom' it.

Fact is, most people that would agree with me aren't the type of people who would post on a message board. Unfortunately, message board types are the ones who make the loudest noise, and pressure owners into dumb decisions like firing good coaches, and setting their teams back years, all in the name of "energizing the fan base"

Vaark
11-27-2011, 02:13 AM
Yeah lets crap on a 39 TD season, a new conference record, and 6 TDs thrown tonight against UCLA (incidentally as of last week Luck beat 6 teams with 3 or less wins).

....but defend a HC who shows no signs of learning from his mistakes, comes in last in polls on who players want to play for, throws his players under the bus defending an OC whose calls were so predictable that opposing defenses laughed their azzes off, needed to be shamed into firing his DC and STC only after public humiliations on national TV, had won less games in Miami Gardens over 2 years than has Pittsburgh and the last 2 seasons went 14-18 before now going 3-8. Did I say include that he didn't think to fire the conditioning coach after the game vs NE?. Welcome to Bizarro World.

For safety sake, someone really needs to test the drinking water in western NY for hallucinogenics :idk:

Phinatic8u
11-27-2011, 02:15 AM
Yea, but Luck isn't a USC QB, Luck's team runs more of a ball control offense, and his stats aren't really what people are drooling over

Barkley plays in a pro style offense.

One big thing is, he is a USC qb, but Pete Carroll was the coach of those other guys, Kiffin is pretty much responsible for Barkley

Gonzo
11-27-2011, 02:15 AM
Well youngin' I'm 27 and I have a great career in the financial world. I have been in the professional world for 8 years, I know how things work on both sides of the coin. So I can relate.

Point is, your father told you to stop ****ing off; he didn't start looking for your replacement while you were still employed did he?

Now I will agree that performances is key in business. I get that excuses are like *******s, everyone has one and most of em stink; however I don't believe Sparano's performance warrants him being fired if you compare his performance to other "businesses" fact is, he has a great product, but his pitchman sucks. The first 'pitchman' he had showed promise, but then he got all ****ed up on pain killers this season. You don't want to fully blame him for the pitchman, as the board of directors forced this guy down his throat. So, you give him a chance to hire a new pitchman, because he's done such a good job with the product. It would be cheaper and more efficient than going out and hiring a new guy to redevelop the product which would set the company back years!No, you clearly don't.

Spesh
11-27-2011, 02:19 AM
I'm not attacking you at all. The female question was a real question.

Still you seem not to grasp the importance of respect.

Nor does having friends who work for sports teams qualify you to speak on the coach/ player dynamics in team sports. That's like me saying a friend of mine works at the museum, so I can speak intelligently about archaeology.

I'm not trying to attack you, I'm attacking your lack of a real argument, by refuting your dumb arguments.

I've already spoke to the 3-8 record. I'm not going to continue making points to someone who would never possibly be able to 'fathom' it.

Fact is, most people that would agree with me aren't the type of people who would post on a message board. Unfortunately, message board types are the ones who make the loudest noise, and pressure owners into dumb decisions like firing good coaches, and setting their teams back years, all in the name of "energizing the fan base"

My "dumb argument" when have you refuted that? All youve done is suggest your mind is going to blow up and then suggestion i just "dont get it" and then ask "am i a man or woman"?

Oh and yes, i understand you have spoken about the 3-8 record. You sit here and say "its awesome!!!!!" we have won 3 games! Just completely ignore the 8 losses!

You have questioned alot, you questioned my gender, you questioned if i had been in a team enviroment.........and yet, you have yet to answer why Tony Sparano "deserves" another season as head coach.

Youve failed in the purpose of this thread. You could not convince the majority that Tony Sparano deserves a head coaching job. He has failed for the simple reasoning that he hasnt won games. Get over it.

Vaark
11-27-2011, 02:25 AM
Tony 17-27 starting with the Ravens playoff humiliation and including the subsequent nationally televised feature game embarrassments finally compelling him to fire Pasquoloni and the STC. He also should have fired the conditioning coach after game 1, but of course he didn't. He can't even get the OL, his supposed specialty right... the latest example being sticking with turnstyle Columbo instead of replacing him with Nate Garner especially after his strong showing. I'd kick him to the curb if nothing more than for his love of Dallas rejects and retreads.

WesternNYDolfan
11-27-2011, 02:26 AM
My "dumb argument" when have you refuted that? All youve done is suggest your mind is going to blow up and then suggestion i just "dont get it" and then ask "am i a man or woman"?

Oh and yes, i understand you have spoken about the 3-8 record. You sit here and say "its awesome!!!!!" we have won 3 games! Just completely ignore the 8 losses!

You have questioned alot, you questioned my gender, you questioned if i had been in a team enviroment.........and yet, you have yet to answer why Tony Sparano "deserves" another season as head coach.

Youve failed in the purpose of this thread. You could not convince the majority that Tony Sparano deserves a head coaching job. He has failed for the simple reasoning that he hasnt won games. Get over it.

The ORIGINAL ****ING POST EXPLAINS WHY I THINK SPARANO DESERVES A HEAD COACHING JOB, DO YOU ****ING READ?????? My god...

I quit, go back and read how I ****ted on every single one of your flimsy arguments, it's like talking to a ****ing wall. my goodness gracious; you really will never get it, so no use in wasting my time.

you've conveniently taken the tag lines from my posts, and eschewed all the supporting arguments that led to those...very smart *******.

Good night. Go find a new team to support tomorrow. I hear the Jaguars are taking applications. Watch how a real "good" coach, who drafts a "great" first round QB plays.

tylerdolphin
11-27-2011, 02:27 AM
While some of your points are valid, I believe he's addressed all of his problems. I think everyone is entitled to mistakes, the fact is everyone makes em, people who succeed are excellent at correcting these mistakes, and I believe Tony has proved he excels at it.
---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 PM ---------

This is the biggest pile of drivel Ive ever read. Nothing but rationalization after rationalization. Im only even going to respond to the clock management point and point out that you are so hopelessly deluded you cant see anything. This year Tony made a monumental mistake in management. We faked going for it to draw the offsides...then called a TO. It was incredibly stupid and ended the game, Going for it or punting werent bad either way, but on the punt we needed all 3 TOs or wed lose...Tony went with the dumbest option possible and burnt a TO plus punted. Thats just one monumentally stupid one I can remember off hand. There are 100 other examples from this year of him bumbling the clock on 2 minutes drill or not even trying to score because he knows he cant handle the clock,

WesternNYDolfan
11-27-2011, 02:31 AM
Oh so now you move this to the Depth's because the Mods don't agree with it??? You guys are like the Nazi's you want to burn everything you don't agree with. Unbelievable.

EmperorPhin
11-27-2011, 02:32 AM
The ORIGINAL ****ING POST EXPLAINS WHY I THINK SPARANO DESERVES A HEAD COACHING JOB, DO YOU ****ING READ?????? My god...

I quit, go back and read how I ****ted on every single one of your flimsy arguments, it's like talking to a ****ing wall. my goodness gracious; you really will never get it, so no use in wasting my time.

you've conveniently taken the tag lines from my posts, and eschewed all the supporting arguments that led to those...very smart *******.

Good night. Go find a new team to support tomorrow. I hear the Jaguars are taking applications. Watch how a real "good" coach, who drafts a "great" first round QB plays.
Well im glad tony found someone to buy into his 10 year plan

Spesh
11-27-2011, 02:37 AM
Oh so now you move this to the Depth's because the Mods don't agree with it??? You guys are like the Nazi's you want to burn everything you don't agree with. Unbelievable.

:lol2::lol2::lol2:

tylerdolphin
11-27-2011, 02:43 AM
The ORIGINAL ****ING POST EXPLAINS WHY I THINK SPARANO DESERVES A HEAD COACHING JOB, DO YOU ****ING READ?????? My god...

I quit, go back and read how I ****ted on every single one of your flimsy arguments, it's like talking to a ****ing wall. my goodness gracious; you really will never get it, so no use in wasting my time.

you've conveniently taken the tag lines from my posts, and eschewed all the supporting arguments that led to those...very smart *******.

Good night. Go find a new team to support tomorrow. I hear the Jaguars are taking applications. Watch how a real "good" coach, who drafts a "great" first round QB plays.

So your point is you should never fire a coach before he gets a franchise QB?

tylerdolphin
11-27-2011, 02:45 AM
Oh so now you move this to the Depth's because the Mods don't agree with it??? You guys are like the Nazi's you want to burn everything you don't agree with. Unbelievable.

Now you can insult us all you want you sad ****ing waste of DNA. **** you and your retarded bull**** argument. Go play in traffic.

I didnt move it for the record

CedarPhin
11-27-2011, 03:36 AM
Oh so now you move this to the Depth's because the Mods don't agree with it??? You guys are like the Nazi's you want to burn everything you don't agree with. Unbelievable.

Get over yourself, *******. It's an inflaming thread, and all you're doing is arguing for the sake of arguing. Stop being such a ****weasel. We get it, you'll have to do something with your vast array of Tony Sparano stalker-photos, your large collection of Tony bobbleheads, Tony posters, Tony autographs, Tony condoms, Tony pictures, Tony toothbrush, Tony underwear, etc., but don't come on here just to stir up some **** then whine about it when you're called on it.

TonyGsharp
11-27-2011, 04:16 AM
Look Sparano has made great decisions when necessary, whenever we've had a problem he's fixed it and done a great job. D coordinator (Nolan) O coordinator (Daboll) need a #1 WR (Marshall) need athletic LBs (Dansby, Wake, Burnett) need a seam threat at TE opposite Fasano (Clay) Need big playmakers (Bush, Gates)

So now that Henne hasn't worked out, it's obvious our glaring need is QB, I want the guy who has done a great job fixing problems to be in charge of that search.

Yes, he's fixed problems, just like he's done with our offensive line. Still in shambles after 4 years from an o-line "guru."

tylerdolphin
11-27-2011, 04:50 AM
Yes, he's fixed problems, just like he's done with our offensive line. Still in shambles after 4 years from an o-line "guru."

According to WesternNY, the Oline is fine. Its all the QBs fault that we have given up the second most sacks. Its God knows whos fault we are 22nd in rushing average. The line is awesome though. :rolleyes:

Dudes blinder than Stevie Wonder.

JCane
11-27-2011, 05:22 AM
Oh so now you move this to the Depth's because the Mods don't agree with it??? You guys are like the Nazi's you want to burn everything you don't agree with. Unbelievable.

It was moved to the Depths because you can't stop being a ****ing ******** every time someone does disagree with you.

Clipse
11-27-2011, 12:10 PM
This dude is easily the most clueless poster on this board and a perfect example why vasectomies need to be made mandatory in some cases. God forbid if this guy has children. We have enough dumb ****s in the world.

Irwin Fletcher
11-30-2011, 06:21 PM
Oh so now you move this to the Depth's because the Mods don't agree with it??? You guys are like the Nazi's you want to burn everything you don't agree with. Unbelievable.That's exactly what the Nazis did! You see, for the last two years, the mods have had teams of Sparano-haters running around the forums looking for all sorts of Tony-lovin'. Chip Douglas's a nut on the subject. He's crazy. He's obsessed with the Sparano-lovers. And right now, apparently, there is some kind of Tony-loving thread going on in the depths outside the forum where logical discussions occur.

Now, I have some information here, but I can't make anything out of it and maybe you can. "Troll development proceeding. Acquire unpopular opinion, Tony-lovin', spin facts, disregard logic --WastelandNYDolfan, US."

Chip Douglas
12-05-2011, 02:44 AM
That's exactly what the Nazis did! You see, for the last two years, the mods have had teams of Sparano-haters running around the forums looking for all sorts of Tony-lovin'. Chip Douglas's a nut on the subject. He's crazy. He's obsessed with the Sparano-lovers. And right now, apparently, there is some kind of Tony-loving thread going on in the depths outside the forum where logical discussions occur.

Now, I have some information here, but I can't make anything out of it and maybe you can. "Troll development proceeding. Acquire unpopular opinion, Tony-lovin', spin facts, disregard logic --WastelandNYDolfan, US."

Oh, Irwin. What are you trying to do, SPAM me? You sound like WesternNYDolfan's mother. We've known each other for a long time. I don't believe in Sparano-lovers, a lot of Tony-loving hocus pocus. I'm going after threads of incredible historical significance with logical discussions, and you're talking to the boogie picking spaz man. Besides, you know what a cautious fellow I am. SPAM... Why'd it have to be SPAM?!