PDA

View Full Version : Adam and Mort: RGIII



Hayden Fox
12-11-2011, 12:03 PM
Schefter stated that NFL people think that RGIII is at least a top 15 pick, with many thinking he is in the top 10 and maybe top 5.

One personnel chief said he like him better than Andrew Luck..

The kid is a stud. Secret is out. lol...

umpjacked
12-11-2011, 12:05 PM
I would be ecstatic if the Dolphins can get him in the draft.

Hayden Fox
12-11-2011, 12:07 PM
It appears to me that if the Fins want their QB in the draft, they will have to move up.

EmperorPhin
12-11-2011, 12:09 PM
No thanks

2413fanphins
12-11-2011, 12:10 PM
I dont' think mort and scheft even say one word about RG3 today, IF he doesn't win the heisman last night.

WeVie
12-11-2011, 12:13 PM
I think I would rather pass on him but on the other hand, I think it would be better to take a change on him rather than draft yet another lineman.

Hayden Fox
12-11-2011, 12:16 PM
I think he is a right-handed Michael Vick with incredible character.

Mort and Adam in fact have mentioned him in past weeks in regards to the Denver Broncos being interested in him.

I say he goes top 5 and out of our reach. I also think Barkley goes back to school.

WeVie
12-11-2011, 12:21 PM
I think he is a right-handed Michael Vick with incredible character.

Mort and Adam in fact have mentioned him in past weeks in regards to the Denver Broncos being interested in him.

I say he goes top 5 and out of our reach. I also think Barkley goes back to school.

I don't understand why some of these guys go back to school, play for free, and risk injury instead of going to the NFL to make some mad cash. Barkley would most likely go in the top ten if he were to come out this year.

I guess they already have rich parents huh.

ckparrothead
12-11-2011, 12:31 PM
Well, whichever teams are convinced on him, have at him. Keep driving up his stock. That would only be good for the Dolphins acquiring a premium QB talent.

Hayden Fox
12-11-2011, 12:34 PM
Imagine the athleticism under center? Most we ever will have had.

ChambersWI
12-11-2011, 12:40 PM
Honestly, from what I've heard the Redskins (if they can't trade up for Luck) have their top 3 QB choices as 1.Barkley 2.Tannehill and 3. Weeden. With Barkley and Tannehill it has everything to do with already being familiar with the WCO, and they feel Weeden is a great fit as well.

And outside of the Skins, I don't see many other teams that will pick ahead of us that want/need a QB. MAYBE Cleveland, but reading between the lines they do love Colt McCoy and want to get him some weapons.

EmperorPhin
12-11-2011, 12:43 PM
I don't understand why some of these guys go back to school, play for free, and risk injury instead of going to the NFL to make some mad cash. Barkley would most likely go in the top ten if he were to come out this year.

I guess they already have rich parents huh.
They take out an insurance policy covering injury. Plus Bark could be #1 pick next year and make even more money

insomnia411
12-11-2011, 12:55 PM
Well, whichever teams are convinced on him, have at him. Keep driving up his stock. That would only be good for the Dolphins acquiring a premium QB talent.

I'm really not trying to be insulting in saying this, but if you don't believe that RG3 is a "premium" qb talent than you must not have watched much college football this year. I understand that he played in a spread, but so did Cam Newton and Sam Bradford. RG3 throws a better deep ball than any QB prospect in the country (including Luck and Barkley) and he is an absolute nightmare in the red zone. He's accurate, he uses touch, he has a cannon, he is a PASS FIRST athletic quarterback, and the kid won a LOT of games for a program that wouldnt have won dick without him.
Again, he's going to have an adjustment period going into the NFL, but you can say that about every qb prospect there is. The kid is practically a genius academically, his work ethic is unquestioned, he has an awesome character and if there's one guy I'd bet the house on to make the adjustment from a spread to an NFL system - it's RG3. Basically, in my opinion he's a slightly less athletic but much smarter Cam Newton.

*Demi*God*
12-11-2011, 01:17 PM
I'm really not trying to be insulting in saying this, but if you don't believe that RG3 is a "premium" qb talent than you must not have watched much college football this year. I understand that he played in a spread, but so did Cam Newton and Sam Bradford. RG3 throws a better deep ball than any QB prospect in the country (including Luck and Barkley) and he is an absolute nightmare in the red zone. He's accurate, he uses touch, he has a cannon, he is a PASS FIRST athletic quarterback, and the kid won a LOT of games for a program that wouldnt have won dick without him.
Again, he's going to have an adjustment period going into the NFL, but you can say that about every qb prospect there is. The kid is practically a genius academically, his work ethic is unquestioned, he has an awesome character and if there's one guy I'd bet the house on to make the adjustment from a spread to an NFL system - it's RG3. Basically, in my opinion he's a slightly less athletic but much smarter Cam Newton.

Yea I didnt know he started Baylor at 17 and won the Big 12 Championship in hurdles that year...I know it wont mean much...But I have a friend whos dad is a State Senator in Texas and his dad has stated many times in our football conversations, that RG3 is a highly intelligent individual...again take that for whats its worth, but after watching some Baylor games recently, I can say Ive started to take a liking to RG3...

OnslaughtXX6
12-11-2011, 02:59 PM
Well, whichever teams are convinced on him, have at him. Keep driving up his stock. That would only be good for the Dolphins acquiring a premium QB talent.
What are you talking about? Griffin has the most upside of any of the QB's in this class. There is no doubt in my mind he is premium QB talent..

finintheburgh
12-11-2011, 04:08 PM
didnt anybody see him on cbs today. the guy is a toothpic. no way he holds up to a 16 game season. hes not a newton, hes much smaller. if you take a top 5 qb you better not miss. rg3 may have a high ceiling but he also has a real low floor.

PhinsTD
12-11-2011, 07:02 PM
CK has earned my respect in regards to evaluating QB's, and if you watch the throws he makes and really study his game, there are reasons for concern.

His instincts are to get outside of the pocket (probably so he he can see better).

His throwing motion is funky, and his mechanics overall will need to be tweaked.

He's smallish. Is he 6-2? If so, that's a big help to him. If he's 6-1 and 205 or so, that will hurt his grade.

How much is his scheme helping him look better than he is? Credit to CK for noting that his backup ran the offense to the same level when RH3 was hurt. Is it the talent surrounding him and scheme he's in?

My own question; he's stated many times he has other interests than football, and noted for being basically a genius. How much does he LOVE football? As a QB he needs to be willing to make it his life. I'd be real interested in his answers to those questions.

Athleticism, accuracy, intelligence, solid arm. Lots to like, but there are questions. More than on Barkley for sure.

NorFlaFin
12-11-2011, 09:08 PM
RGIII certainly fits what mike Shananhan wants at the QB position

Chubby
12-11-2011, 09:13 PM
He doesn't have the Arm/athleticism like Newton nor the Speed like Vick. No thanks will fail in the NFL.
Chubbs

LouPhinFan
12-11-2011, 09:37 PM
I haven't seen the kid play, but without seeing him play there are 2 big red flags that need to be considered:

1. The fact that his back up came in and the offense didn't miss a beat. To me that screams system-QB.
2. The fact that there are questions about how much he loves football and how much he will be devoted to being a franchise QB. Will he play for 6 years and then up and retire on you because he's made enough money and wants to do something else?

I'm not going to say "yea" or "nay" on the kid but these are questions that need to be answered. Plus, he's a one year wonder. I am ALWAYS weary of one year wonders.

3rdandinches
12-11-2011, 09:39 PM
How do people think RG3 has the highest ceiling? What's that a better M.Vick? M.Vick on his greatest of days can't touch A.Rodgers, T.Brady, P.Manning and those are the guys A.Luck is being compared to, for good reason. RG3 will end up in the same boat as M.Vick, play great but miss games due to injuries.

Give me A.Luck 1st and foremost, M.Barkley 2nd and then 3rd a bunch of drugs since we missed out on the two best QB's, after I come out of my drug induced coma I'll then take B.Weeden and be pretty happy going into 2012 at the QB position!

Chubby
12-11-2011, 09:51 PM
How do people think RG3 has the highest ceiling? What's that a better M.Vick? M.Vick on his greatest of days can't touch A.Rodgers, T.Brady, P.Manning and those are the guys A.Luck is being compared to, for good reason. RG3 will end up in the same boat as M.Vick, play great but miss games due to injuries.

Give me A.Luck 1st and foremost, M.Barkley 2nd and then 3rd a bunch of drugs since we missed out on the two best QB's, after I come out of my drug induced coma I'll then take B.Weeden and be pretty happy going into 2012 at the QB position!
I heart you.
Chubbs

ChambersWI
12-11-2011, 11:37 PM
To be fair to RG3, he's improved his passing every year at Baylor. Yes he's in a pass happy offense, but he's improved his accuracy every year from 59.9 to 67 to 72.4. In college Vick's completion percentage was 58.8 and 54.2. Vick has always been stubborn about becoming a better passing QB, and has only had a completion percentage over 60 once in his career.

ticophin
12-12-2011, 12:34 AM
eemmmm Pat White II?

ChambersWI
12-12-2011, 02:01 AM
eemmmm Pat White II?

aside from being a more rounded player than White coming out, taller than Pat White, and faster. Yes. He's just like Pat White. RG3 is far from a perfect prospect, but he's not White. White is a guy who couldn't throw a lick to safe his life. He's not really Vince Young either as he's actually intelligent and has good character.

hooshoops
12-12-2011, 02:13 AM
imo the best nfl prospect on that baylor squad is wr kendall wright...he's a pro player

datruth55
12-12-2011, 02:16 AM
aside from being a more rounded player than White coming out, taller than Pat White, and faster. Yes. He's just like Pat White. RG3 is far from a perfect prospect, but he's not White. White is a guy who couldn't throw a lick to safe his life. He's not really Vince Young either as he's actually intelligent and has good character.

I really don't want to get in this argument because I don't think RGIII is 1st round material...I don't think he can start on an NFL team from day 1, that's my idea of a first round pick at any position but RGIII is faster than Pat White in a straight line only...Pat White in college was much more elusive than RGIII. White rushed for 4480 yards in college at around 6.5 yards per carry, twice getting over 1000 yards in a season. RGIII had 2202 rushing at around 4.3 yards per carry.

---------- Post added at 01:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 AM ----------


imo the best nfl prospect on that baylor squad is wr kendall wright...he's a pro player
That kid reminds me of Greg Jennings.

ckparrothead
12-12-2011, 02:49 AM
I'm really not trying to be insulting in saying this, but if you don't believe that RG3 is a "premium" qb talent than you must not have watched much college football this year. I understand that he played in a spread, but so did Cam Newton and Sam Bradford. RG3 throws a better deep ball than any QB prospect in the country (including Luck and Barkley) and he is an absolute nightmare in the red zone. He's accurate, he uses touch, he has a cannon, he is a PASS FIRST athletic quarterback, and the kid won a LOT of games for a program that wouldnt have won dick without him.
Again, he's going to have an adjustment period going into the NFL, but you can say that about every qb prospect there is. The kid is practically a genius academically, his work ethic is unquestioned, he has an awesome character and if there's one guy I'd bet the house on to make the adjustment from a spread to an NFL system - it's RG3. Basically, in my opinion he's a slightly less athletic but much smarter Cam Newton.

Thanks for the condescension. I guess I forgot to watch any college football and haven't seen about seven of RG3's games this year.

ckparrothead
12-12-2011, 02:53 AM
Attention anyone that feels like in order to disagree with me they have to imply that I don't know what I'm looking at and/or haven't watched any actual games of whichever player I'm talking about at the moment: get your heads out of your butts and realize that when it comes to draft evaluation, disagreement is the norm.

Pinkboy
12-12-2011, 03:12 AM
imo the best nfl prospect on that baylor squad is wr kendall wright...he's a pro player

I totally agree. I love Kendall Wright as a pro prospect. He would be the perfect #2 WR for us and 1000X better than that piece a' crap Brian Hartline.,

The only thing is, is that lately I've been noticing Wright climbing the boards. A month ago you'd see him decked firmly in the 2nd, late 2nd, even the 3rd round. But now he's a late first rounder in a lot of places. Which means we're SOL if that's where he eventually goes

If I had a choice to take RGIII or Kendall Wright for free, I choose Wright 10 times out of 10. He will be a better pro player than RGIII will. And most likely, by a longshot.

Hayden Fox
12-12-2011, 07:08 AM
RGIII has something I love...the "it" factor.

TedSlimmJr
12-12-2011, 10:38 AM
Pat White is a terrible and lazy comparison for Robert III. He reminds me of Shaun King in almost every way. Except his throwing motion and release is very much like Colin Kaepernick's.

I'm convinced on everything about Robert III other than becoming a franchise caliber quarterback in the NFL for a long period of time. It's not easy to do. There are some hurdles in his way that he'll have to overcome. Mainly his footwork. Leading to improved accuracy on the intermediate range throws in the middle of the field.

He likes to get outside the pocket and create a different angle for the DB to defend the pass. It doesn't work as well in the NFL.

Hayden Fox
12-12-2011, 11:10 AM
Here is the deal if you take RGIII: a coach that can instruct qb's is a must. An offense and surrounding talent that fits his skills is a must. Do not shoehorn the guy into a system.

finintheburgh
12-12-2011, 08:43 PM
Here is the deal if you take RGIII: a coach that can instruct qb's is a must. An offense and surrounding talent that fits his skills is a must. Do not shoehorn the guy into a system.

what offense is going to fit his skill set in the nfl.
he doesnt take snaps from under center to often,
he doesnt throw the short routes real well, he does throw a nice deep ball.
hes not built to take hits from nfl players,and
no team runs a spread offense that will give him those big windows to throw through.

not sure what kind of offense he fits into.

Hayden Fox
12-12-2011, 09:29 PM
what offense is going to fit his skill set in the nfl.
he doesnt take snaps from under center to often,
he doesnt throw the short routes real well, he does throw a nice deep ball.
hes not built to take hits from nfl players,and
no team runs a spread offense that will give him those big windows to throw through.

not sure what kind of offense he fits into.

Dalton and Newton were in spread systems.

I think he is such an athlete and of high character that he has a bright future.

Clipse
12-12-2011, 10:26 PM
I'm really not trying to be insulting in saying this, but if you don't believe that RG3 is a "premium" qb talent than you must not have watched much college football this year. I understand that he played in a spread, but so did Cam Newton and Sam Bradford. RG3 throws a better deep ball than any QB prospect in the country (including Luck and Barkley) and he is an absolute nightmare in the red zone. He's accurate, he uses touch, he has a cannon, he is a PASS FIRST athletic quarterback, and the kid won a LOT of games for a program that wouldnt have won dick without him.
Again, he's going to have an adjustment period going into the NFL, but you can say that about every qb prospect there is. The kid is practically a genius academically, his work ethic is unquestioned, he has an awesome character and if there's one guy I'd bet the house on to make the adjustment from a spread to an NFL system - it's RG3. Basically, in my opinion he's a slightly less athletic but much smarter Cam Newton.

The difference is, you watch college football, he breaks down college football players. There is a LOT to be concerned about with RG3. RG3 is not a premium quarterback talent, plain and simple. Either that or we have very different definitions of premium quarterback talent.

ChrisHanson
12-12-2011, 11:28 PM
RG III is extremely smart, most likely smarter than Luck, and definitely the better athelete. He works hard, plays hard, is a team player, and a model citizen. Yes, he is rough around the edges, but I see no reason why he can't or won't become a very good NFL QB.

I'd rather have him than Barkley.

finintheburgh
12-13-2011, 12:20 AM
Dalton and Newton were in spread systems.

I think he is such an athlete and of high character that he has a bright future.

i dont think anybody on here will question his character or his athleticism.

the problem is he isnt the type of qb that dalton is and he doesnt have cams body to hold up to the beating that hes going to take.

hes a great college highlight film that wont translate well to the nfl. its a different game.

thefranchisedef
12-13-2011, 12:24 AM
He doesn't have the Arm/athleticism like Newton nor the Speed like Vick. No thanks will fail in the NFL.
Chubbs

um... smh? how can you say that he doesnt have the arm? he's far more accurate than newton thought about being... his has a rocket for an arm. He qualified for the olympics as a hurdler. The guy has a long frame, that has plenty of room to add bulk. He's extremely intelligent? come on, get your facts right

thefranchisedef
12-13-2011, 12:27 AM
take it for what it is but john gruden knows quarterbacks and he said that he think rg3 is going to be special

AZStryker
12-13-2011, 01:19 AM
take it for what it is but john gruden knows quarterbacks and he said that he think rg3 is going to be special

In all fairness, he's said that about a lot of QB's. One of which was Henne.

finintheburgh
12-13-2011, 08:56 AM
take it for what it is but john gruden knows quarterbacks and he said that he think rg3 is going to be special

he said the same thing about pryor and almost every other qb he talks to

daniel3
12-13-2011, 10:42 AM
The difference is, you watch college football, he breaks down college football players. There is a LOT to be concerned about with RG3. RG3 is not a premium quarterback talent, plain and simple. Either that or we have very different definitions of premium quarterback talent. That is not even the difference at all. The guy is reporting on what he's seen of Griffin's style and gameplay and disagreeing with ckparrots assessment, stop trying to trivialize his contribution and prop up ckparrot. Griffin not being a premium QB is your and his OPINION and it is going to be a wrong one as many on here are saying. It was just two or three months ago I was being told on here that he wouldn't be a top 10 pick or even go in first round.

I think Griffin's problem is the perception of QB's labeled with his qualities always makes him an uphill battle for assessment with people like ckparrot who will overblow things like footwork (which he has no issue with and has more to do with his constant movement in the pocket due to a myriad of issues) or offensive scheme (as if it seems like he would have any issue playing under center). Either way we will be lucky if he's there when we pick, regardless of what some guys on here think.

ckparrothead
12-13-2011, 11:36 AM
um... smh? how can you say that he doesnt have the arm? he's far more accurate than newton thought about being... his has a rocket for an arm. He qualified for the olympics as a hurdler. The guy has a long frame, that has plenty of room to add bulk. He's extremely intelligent? come on, get your facts right

There are no "facts". Just opinions.

Robert Griffin does not have Cam Newton's throwing ability. Newton has a better arm, gets more spin on the ball, and has a quicker, more versatile delivery. Newton also is more elusive, more agile, has a better stop-start than Griffin, who is more of a straight line athlete.

And he's also a LOT bigger and stronger, more able to take the pounding that comes with the kind of player that the two are on the football field.

SammySmif
12-13-2011, 11:50 AM
RGIII has been the guy I have wanted here over Luck for months. I love what he brings to the table, the guy is a winner. I also accepted Luck would go #1 overall, but we have a real shot at RGIII and have to take it. I do not see Barkley being anything special, just another USC QB. RGIII could be a special player due to his incredible accuracy and excellent mobility.

The NFL is evolving a little bit with mobile QBs. There will be more and more coming out of college. Some are like Ponder who use their legs to pick up 1st downs (I see RGIII as a better version of Ponder), and some are freaks like Cam Newton who can do it all but risk taking that big hit one day.

Regardless the mobile QB gives you that plus 1 advantage that makes an offense much harder to stop.

If you are going traditional, Luck is the guy. I believe the Colts will take him, so it is not really worth worrying about.

Hayden Fox
12-13-2011, 11:53 AM
RGIII's character and leadership should not be down played.

ckparrothead
12-13-2011, 11:59 AM
RGIII's character and leadership should not be down played.

Nor should they be over-played. Ultimately, you put Albert Schweitzer on a football field, he's not going to do well.

hooshoops
12-13-2011, 12:02 PM
I totally agree. I love Kendall Wright as a pro prospect. He would be the perfect #2 WR for us and 1000X better than that piece a' crap Brian Hartline.,

The only thing is, is that lately I've been noticing Wright climbing the boards. A month ago you'd see him decked firmly in the 2nd, late 2nd, even the 3rd round. But now he's a late first rounder in a lot of places. Which means we're SOL if that's where he eventually goes

If I had a choice to take RGIII or Kendall Wright for free, I choose Wright 10 times out of 10. He will be a better pro player than RGIII will. And most likely, by a longshot.

the more i watch baylor the more i like wright...wouldn't surprise me if he went somewhere in the 20's...

Hayden Fox
12-13-2011, 12:08 PM
Nor should they be over-played. Ultimately, you put Albert Schweitzer on a football field, he's not going to do well.

I agree with that too.

I just think the kid is special. This is the time of year that we over-analyze the smallest things. Can RGIII play the game? Yes. He would revitalize the organization IMO. Anyone that builds up Baylor Football deserves a ton respect. I think is athletic to make adjustments and has great instincts.

Why did you pick Albert? LOL. Good analogy...

ckparrothead
12-13-2011, 12:33 PM
I agree with that too.

I just think the kid is special. This is the time of year that we over-analyze the smallest things. Can RGIII play the game? Yes. He would revitalize the organization IMO. Anyone that builds up Baylor Football deserves a ton respect. I think is athletic to make adjustments and has great instincts.

Why did you pick Albert? LOL. Good analogy...

I think the details matter. I always have and I always will. Where you see this time of year being the time when we over-analyze the details, I see the exact opposite. This is a the time of the year where draft evaluation is MOST sensitive to results-based analysis rather than detail-based analysis. For instance, winning the Heisman trophy boosted RG3's stock tremendously. Now people can't stop talking about him. If you took a poll of Dol-Fans a week before the Heisman ceremony and polled Dol-Fans a week after the Heisman ceremony, I bet his "should we draft" percentage went up by 20% or more.

And yet, since when has winning the Heisman ever been a good indicator that this player is the best in the Draft?

Take Matt Barkley for instance. He beats Oregon and he douses UCLA. For a good 2 or 3 weeks after that, people couldn't stop talking about him. There are now two QBs in the Draft, not just Andrew Luck, etc. This is results-based analysis. Couple weeks later he's not playing in a bowl game, he's not wining the Heisman...he's going by the wayside.

Results-based analysis isn't for me. I prefer detail-based analysis, especially when you're trying to develop a vision for a guy doing what very few humans on this earth can do, which is play franchise level football at the quarterback position in the National Football League. Feet matter. Mechanics matter. Spin, accuracy, arm strength and touch matter. Decision-making matters. Size matters. Pocket presence matters. These are all details and where you can claim that I'm "over-analyzing" them...I'd prefer to over-analyze those details than to go by some general, vaguely whimsical "the guy can play" perception based mostly on stats and a trophy.

Hayden Fox
12-13-2011, 01:31 PM
I think the details matter. I always have and I always will. Where you see this time of year being the time when we over-analyze the details, I see the exact opposite. This is a the time of the year where draft evaluation is MOST sensitive to results-based analysis rather than detail-based analysis. For instance, winning the Heisman trophy boosted RG3's stock tremendously. Now people can't stop talking about him. If you took a poll of Dol-Fans a week before the Heisman ceremony and polled Dol-Fans a week after the Heisman ceremony, I bet his "should we draft" percentage went up by 20% or more.

And yet, since when has winning the Heisman ever been a good indicator that this player is the best in the Draft?

Take Matt Barkley for instance. He beats Oregon and he douses UCLA. For a good 2 or 3 weeks after that, people couldn't stop talking about him. There are now two QBs in the Draft, not just Andrew Luck, etc. This is results-based analysis. Couple weeks later he's not playing in a bowl game, he's not wining the Heisman...he's going by the wayside.

Results-based analysis isn't for me. I prefer detail-based analysis, especially when you're trying to develop a vision for a guy doing what very few humans on this earth can do, which is play franchise level football at the quarterback position in the National Football League. Feet matter. Mechanics matter. Spin, accuracy, arm strength and touch matter. Decision-making matters. Size matters. Pocket presence matters. These are all details and where you can claim that I'm "over-analyzing" them...I'd prefer to over-analyze those details than to go by some general, vaguely whimsical "the guy can play" perception based mostly on stats and a trophy.

Fair enough. However, when people let small details overshadow whether a guy can play or not...that is not good. RGIII can play. Fit a system to fit his strengths and I think he takes off.

People let small details get in the way of Cam Newton too.

It is a balancing act for sure to dig into the details and be meticulous vs. over-analysis that is for sure.

moparman
12-13-2011, 01:43 PM
Nice ck details are very important when picking a quaterback these days.

ckparrothead
12-13-2011, 01:49 PM
Fair enough. However, when people let small details overshadow whether a guy can play or not...that is not good. RGIII can play. Fit a system to fit his strengths and I think he takes off.

People let small details get in the way of Cam Newton too.

It is a balancing act for sure to dig into the details and be meticulous vs. over-analysis that is for sure.

It's all in how you look at it. Details are exactly what led me to view Cam Newton as being a few red flags short of being a once in a decade player at the position, but even with the red flags, totally worthy of the #1 overall pick. Small details BROUGHT me to the conclusion that the guy "can play".

People that let details get in the way of their Cam Newton analysis were often doing the exact opposite, not getting into ENOUGH detail. For instance, calling him a running quarterback based on him having run the ball 264 run attempts to 280 pass attempts. The problem is, that wasn't detailed ENOUGH. That was a vague statistic. I showed by use of DETAIL that when Auburn called a pass play, Cam Newton only scrambled for positive yardage something like 10 or 11% of the time, which was in line with the percentage of pass snaps that Aaron Rodgers scrambles for positive yardage.

That was not a detail "getting in the way" of Cam Newton. That was a detail that many people were MISSING on Cam Newton.

isaacjunk
12-13-2011, 02:19 PM
It's all in how you look at it. Details are exactly what led me to view Cam Newton as being a few red flags short of being a once in a decade player at the position, but even with the red flags, totally worthy of the #1 overall pick. Small details BROUGHT me to the conclusion that the guy "can play".

People that let details get in the way of their Cam Newton analysis were often doing the exact opposite, not getting into ENOUGH detail. For instance, calling him a running quarterback based on him having run the ball 264 run attempts to 280 pass attempts. The problem is, that wasn't detailed ENOUGH. That was a vague statistic. I showed by use of DETAIL that when Auburn called a pass play, Cam Newton only scrambled for positive yardage something like 10 or 11% of the time, which was in line with the percentage of pass snaps that Aaron Rodgers scrambles for positive yardage.

That was not a detail "getting in the way" of Cam Newton. That was a detail that many people were MISSING on Cam Newton.

The better counterargument for RGIII is probably Tim Tebow vs Cam Newton. Everyone thinks Tebow cannot throw but he still somehow magically wins games. At least until defenses find a solution, a strong running qb can make the need for traditional necessities like pinpoint accuracy and even reading defenses much less important,

ckparrothead
12-13-2011, 02:44 PM
The better counterargument for RGIII is probably Tim Tebow vs Cam Newton. Everyone thinks Tebow cannot throw but he still somehow magically wins games. At least until defenses find a solution, a strong running qb can make the need for traditional necessities like pinpoint accuracy and even reading defenses much less important,

I agree with you. But the thing Tim Tebow and Cam Newton have in common, that Robert Griffin does NOT have in common with them...is the size and strength. Tim Tebow is built like Peyton Hillis. Cam Newton is built like...Cam Newton.

Robert Griffin is built like who, exactly? He's 6'1" or 6'2" and while the listings CLAIM he's 220 lbs, that's pretty laughable. If he tips the scales at the Combine even close to that, it'll be with 8 pounds of water in his belly, having to pee so bad he might just let it go right on the floor while waiting in line like Isaac Hilton once did.

The argument that I've always made about this mythical Wildcat 2.0 player is that it's unlikely to happen because you need a guy that not only has the passing and decision making skill set of a pro bowl caliber quarterback, but also needs the physical running skill set of a pro bowl caliber running back. Cam Newton was the first guy I ever saw that had both of those things.

I'm still not ready to say Tim Tebow has those things. He's got the tailback skills, more so than RG3 because of his build and his agility, but the passing skills I'm not convinced about yet. Yes, the defense got tore up by Minnesota and Tebow found a way to be productive and to win the game. But if the defense is letting up 25 points I still think they lose probably 9 times out 10.

Hayden Fox
12-13-2011, 03:04 PM
I think RGIII's comparison is Michael Vick...with a ton of character.

I think he is going to make a ton of plays from the pocket. Plus, his shortcomings can be worked on because he is a smart kid and very athletic.

He will end up being 2nd pick of the draft.

retarmyfinfan
12-13-2011, 07:13 PM
Schefter stated that NFL people think that RGIII is at least a top 15 pick, with many thinking he is in the top 10 and maybe top 5.

One personnel chief said he like him better than Andrew Luck..

The kid is a stud. Secret is out. lol...

Hopefully that personnel chief is with the Colts

retarmyfinfan
12-13-2011, 07:15 PM
I agree with you. But the thing Tim Tebow and Cam Newton have in common, that Robert Griffin does NOT have in common with them...is the size and strength. Tim Tebow is built like Peyton Hillis. Cam Newton is built like...Cam Newton.

Robert Griffin is built like who, exactly? He's 6'1" or 6'2" and while the listings CLAIM he's 220 lbs, that's pretty laughable. If he tips the scales at the Combine even close to that, it'll be with 8 pounds of water in his belly, having to pee so bad he might just let it go right on the floor while waiting in line like Isaac Hilton once did.

The argument that I've always made about this mythical Wildcat 2.0 player is that it's unlikely to happen because you need a guy that not only has the passing and decision making skill set of a pro bowl caliber quarterback, but also needs the physical running skill set of a pro bowl caliber running back. Cam Newton was the first guy I ever saw that had both of those things.

I'm still not ready to say Tim Tebow has those things. He's got the tailback skills, more so than RG3 because of his build and his agility, but the passing skills I'm not convinced about yet. Yes, the defense got tore up by Minnesota and Tebow found a way to be productive and to win the game. But if the defense is letting up 25 points I still think they lose probably 9 times out 10.

Build like Pat White

Finfan4lyfe91
12-13-2011, 07:24 PM
Did anyone catch what Chucky said about RGIII? On MNF he got brought up and Gruden was salivating over the chance to coach him. Saying that if he had him on his team it would be a lot of fun because he is an amazing football player.

Sorry if this has been posted already but I thought it was pretty funny how badly he looked like he wants to coach that kid.

ckparrothead
12-14-2011, 12:08 AM
I think RGIII's comparison is Michael Vick...with a ton of character.

I think he is going to make a ton of plays from the pocket. Plus, his shortcomings can be worked on because he is a smart kid and very athletic.

He will end up being 2nd pick of the draft.

I personally don't know how anyone can watch Mike Vick play against the Dolphins and then watch Robert Griffin, and say that the most apt comparison for Robert Griffin is Mike Vick. RG3 doesn't have near the arm Vick does, nor anything close to the feet. Michael Vick has the feet of a Pro Bowl running back, and he throws one of the best footballs in the NFL. If size and attitude weren't so constantly a problem for him, he'd probably be the best quarterback the game ever saw.

newlife2788
12-14-2011, 03:17 AM
I want him

Hayden Fox
12-14-2011, 08:34 AM
I personally don't know how anyone can watch Mike Vick play against the Dolphins and then watch Robert Griffin, and say that the most apt comparison for Robert Griffin is Mike Vick. RG3 doesn't have near the arm Vick does, nor anything close to the feet. Michael Vick has the feet of a Pro Bowl running back, and he throws one of the best footballs in the NFL. If size and attitude weren't so constantly a problem for him, he'd probably be the best quarterback the game ever saw.

I think it is great comparison. They both have rocket arms and I am shocked that you say they do not have the similar feet/athleticism...Plus, you can teach athletes and mold them easier than...say, a 29 year old QB coming from college.

greasyObnoxious
12-14-2011, 09:09 AM
I think it is great comparison. They both have rocket arms and I am shocked that you say they do not have the similar feet/athleticism...Plus, you can teach athletes and mold them easier than...say, a 29 year old QB coming from college.

wow, another stab at Weeden. who would have expected that?