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View Full Version : No Top 3 QB - Trade down



SpanishJonny
12-15-2011, 02:27 PM
I understand that the consensus is that the front office has to get in a position to draft one of the top 3 QBs. It may not be possible. If so, there are those that would want BPA. If were are picking around 7, there just doesn't seem to value in comparison to need. If we could move down a few times, this type of scenario could be possible.

Trade 7 to Seahawks(Martin or Reiff) for 15/47
Trade 15 to Browns (Martin or DeCastro) for 22/54
Trade 22 to Panthers (Wright or Minnifield) for 37/69

37 Zebrie Sanders RT (massive need)
39 Dontari Poe NT (Soliai will go)
47 Brandon Weeden QB (age concerns irrelevant at this spot)
54 TJ McDonald FS (a huge need IMHO)
69 Vinny Curry DE/OLB (pass rusher)
71 Coby Fleener TE (value/need)

Now I know there are those that will say this could only happen in Madden or that we could never find the trade partners but in theory, in theory, it's possible. My point is to illustrate that trading down for three extra players, to an area of the draft with team needs/value, gives us a much better chance of hitting on a couple of stars. The players above are irrelevant and you can substitute them for anyone you like but I think, that if Ross gets out the cheque book for a couple of big time free agents, maybe WR/G/CB, we would be in very good shape by trading down this year.

All that being said, they should do what they can to get up and get Barkley first.

MRojas4
12-15-2011, 03:00 PM
I understand that the consensus is that the front office has to get in a position to draft one of the top 3 QBs. It may not be possible. If so, there are those that would want BPA. If were are picking around 7, there just doesn't seem to value in comparison to need. If we could move down a few times, this type of scenario could be possible.

Trade 7 to Seahawks(Martin or Reiff) for 15/47
Trade 15 to Browns (Martin or DeCastro) for 22/54
Trade 22 to Panthers (Wright or Minnifield) for 37/69

37 Zebrie Sanders RT (massive need)
39 Dontari Poe NT (Soliai will go)
47 Brandon Weeden QB (age concerns irrelevant at this spot)
54 TJ McDonald FS (a huge need IMHO)
69 Vinny Curry DE/OLB (pass rusher)
71 Coby Fleener TE (value/need)

Now I know there are those that will say this could only happen in Madden or that we could never find the trade partners but in theory, in theory, it's possible. My point is to illustrate that trading down for three extra players, to an area of the draft with team needs/value, gives us a much better chance of hitting on a couple of stars. The players above are irrelevant and you can substitute them for anyone you like but I think, that if Ross gets out the cheque book for a couple of big time free agents, maybe WR/G/CB, we would be in very good shape by trading down this year.

All that being said, they should do what they can to get up and get Barkley first.

Nice post, but Curry doesnt last to 69. :420:

SpanishJonny
12-15-2011, 04:59 PM
Nice post, but Curry doesnt last to 69. :420:

Ya, and I'd have no problem picking him earlier. There are mocks that have Fleener in the 2nd or Weeden in the third. There are others in the second and third rounds that could help. Datko, Ray Ray, Barron(YB is pushing on a bit), Osemele, Adcock, Orson. Plenty of possibilities in areas of need. The only drawback to my argument that just came to me is; if I could give Ireland 20 picks in the 2/3 rounds he would probably piss me off with 19 of them.

slosh13
12-15-2011, 06:06 PM
that 1st trade is a terrible deal!

Ed Norton
12-15-2011, 06:14 PM
Maybe they won't be able to trade up for Luck but for THIS team not to land a top QB prospect in THIS draft would be unacceptable.

Roman529
12-15-2011, 06:37 PM
I think if we cannot get Luck, Barkley or RG3, than a trade down makes sense, BUT it is difficult to trade down several times....even the Patriots are usually not able to do this multiple times in one draft. I like the guys you have listed in your trade down and it is always good to get multiple picks. If we cannot get a top three QB, I would try to work out a deal to get Peyton Manning, but this could cost us some good players or draft picks, unless the Colts flat out cut Peyton to not have to pay him the $19 bonus due him in March, 2012.

mfish41
12-15-2011, 07:21 PM
at some point you have to take a qb, and that point was a year ago.

SpanishJonny
12-15-2011, 08:10 PM
that 1st trade is a terrible deal!

As you give no explanation, I'll try to guess. If you mean because trading for one of those two would be a terrible move for the Seahawks I'd have to agree although they badly need a tackle. If you mean bad value for us, I was using the value chart. 7=1500. 15/47 = 1480 so unless you wanted to haggle over their 6th round pick, the value is OK. I just picked Seattle as an example. We could have nine. So we might have to deal with whoever has 16/17. And as I said I realise finding that many trade partners is unlikely, but I just can't understand why there is such an opposition to trading down this year. That is, if we can't trade up for Barkley. I would take Griffin with our 1st pick. But I wouldn't trade up for him. Just not sold on him.

SpanishJonny
12-15-2011, 08:17 PM
I think if we cannot get Luck, Barkley or RG3, than a trade down makes sense, BUT it is difficult to trade down several times....even the Patriots are usually not able to do this multiple times in one draft. I like the guys you have listed in your trade down and it is always good to get multiple picks. If we cannot get a top three QB, I would try to work out a deal to get Peyton Manning, but this could cost us some good players or draft picks, unless the Colts flat out cut Peyton to not have to pay him the $19 bonus due him in March, 2012.

As I understand it, unless he restructures his contract, they can't trade him without incurring a massive cap hit, so they would have to release him. I would love to get him in that case for a few years if healthy, but wouldn't give picks for him. Not much anyway, too old. The above scenario would make even more sense because we could draft some players that would cost little in terms of the cap because the Manning contract would involve some cap casualties. Bell/Carey etc.

The Confessor
12-15-2011, 08:45 PM
Just one question.

Exactly who are the top 3 QB's in this draft??


Are you sure???????

hooshoops
12-15-2011, 08:57 PM
seahawks used a 1st round pick last year on tackle james carpenter and they used a top 6 one the year prior on tackle russell okung...they're not in dire need of tackle help...they need a qb first and foremost...

SpanishJonny
12-15-2011, 11:04 PM
seahawks used a 1st round pick last year on tackle james carpenter and they used a top 6 one the year prior on tackle russell okung...they're not in dire need of tackle help...they need a qb first and foremost...

Yeah and we used high picks on lots of players the last few years. They haven't all worked out. High picks don't guarantee success is my point.
BTW Carpenter has been a big disappointment and is being moved to Guard. Okung is never healthy. If he could stay healthy they'd be OK.

They're in the same boat as us. QB the biggest need. They just won too many games to be in the mix in Round 1 unless they like Jones.

SpanishJonny
12-15-2011, 11:10 PM
Just one question.

Exactly who are the top 3 QB's in this draft??


Are you sure???????


Of course I'm not sure. Who is? I obviously meant the consensus top 3 prospects. There has been a lot of hate for Landry Jones for instance. Maybe he will be the best NFL QB in this draft. Personally, if we can't get Luck/Barkley/Griffin it wouldn't kill me to wait until next year and see how Osweiler and Bray, for two, have progressed and draft then. Especially if we did get Manning and they could sit for a year or two.

BTW, I should have pointed out that if the front office think Tannehill, Cousins are the second coming, I would be happy if they were chosen. For obvious reasons, I have a superstitious fear of the fins using a 2nd round pick on a QB:)

SpanishJonny
12-15-2011, 11:21 PM
seahawks used a 1st round pick last year on tackle james carpenter and they used a top 6 one the year prior on tackle russell okung...they're not in dire need of tackle help...they need a qb first and foremost...

Okung cannot stay healthy. Carpenter has been disappointing and is being moved to Guard. Drafting a player high guarantees nothing is my point. As I said I dunno who the trade partner on the day would be but if we can't get up to Barkley I would like to move down.

The Confessor
12-16-2011, 07:15 PM
Of course I'm not sure. Who is? I obviously meant the consensus top 3 prospects. There has been a lot of hate for Landry Jones for instance. Maybe he will be the best NFL QB in this draft. Personally, if we can't get Luck/Barkley/Griffin it wouldn't kill me to wait until next year and see how Osweiler and Bray, for two, have progressed and draft then. Especially if we did get Manning and they could sit for a year or two.

BTW, I should have pointed out that if the front office think Tannehill, Cousins are the second coming, I would be happy if they were chosen. For obvious reasons, I have a superstitious fear of the fins using a 2nd round pick on a QB:)

I think Landry Jones has LOTS of work to do before he's a legit QB. LOTS of work.


For the record, you still haven't named whom I think IS going to be a top 3 QB from this class.. Maybe not where he's picked, but at the end of the day.

The Confessor
12-16-2011, 07:19 PM
Okung cannot stay healthy. Carpenter has been disappointing and is being moved to Guard. Drafting a player high guarantees nothing is my point. As I said I dunno who the trade partner on the day would be but if we can't get up to Barkley I would like to move down.

Only reason Okung is hurt is cause a very dirty SOB broke his arm. While I'm on that, explain to me why James Harrison and N-Suh get suspended for a dirty play that didnt actually hurt anybody, but Trent Cole ends Okung's season with one of the cheapest things I have ever seen done in Pro Sports and he gets NOTHING.

Gotta watch this. Left hand side, well after the whistle had been blown like 3? times?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkY7IiQPAE8

finsfanjay13
12-16-2011, 08:28 PM
I'd rather focus on trading up to get our guy as opposed to trading down because our guy is no longer there.

SpanishJonny
12-16-2011, 10:08 PM
I think Landry Jones has LOTS of work to do before he's a legit QB. LOTS of work.


For the record, you still haven't named whom I think IS going to be a top 3 QB from this class.. Maybe not where he's picked, but at the end of the day.

Umm, dunno. Luck is the obvious choice. I can't decide on Barkley. I like what I see on the field. I like how he comes across in interviews. I'm not concerned with his height. The arm strength didn't bother me. So ya, I'm all for him one minute, and then something puts me off him. For instance, Charlie Casserly was on with Big Dog earlier and he said that talent evaluators with some NFL teams have graded him in the 3RD Round! I think Casserly said he accepted this wouldn't happen but that Barkley is limited to a West coast offence and his arm strength is a liability. I am paraphrasing here. In the same interview he said that Griffin is gonna knock the socks off people in his interview and will go high.

Now, you turn to other commentators who say that Griffin is too short, too sleight, wonky mechanics, would prefer to go to law school than commit to being a franchise quarterback. So this gives me pause.

They have to move up if they are confident in one of these guys, but if not don't do it just to appease the fan base. I have a feeling you have a thought on who they should target though?

SF Dolphin Fan
12-17-2011, 02:32 PM
Makes a lot of sense and New England seems to do something similar every year.

bigvince75
12-17-2011, 05:02 PM
I don't think McDonald or Curry will last that long in the draft. Good call on Zebrie Sanders, he's a very underrated prospect and one of my favorite tackles in that draft.

I don't think you guys should trade down if DeCastro is still available; you could always take him and move Carey back to RT or draft a quality tackle prospect like Datko later on.

bigvince75
12-17-2011, 05:06 PM
and please don't draft Dontari Poe, I'm holding out hope that if NE doesn't take him with one of their firsts that he'll last until one of their second round picks.