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View Full Version : Tight End - A Major Need for 2012



Generic Name
12-15-2011, 05:56 PM
Have heard and participated in the debates about what the Dolphins need and have to disagree with many of you who list TE as a minor need or say that because we have Fasano and Clay,we're fine at that spot. We're not. We're light years behind the better offenses in the NFL and could greatly help Moore or whoever is behind center by drafting a 6'4" 260 lb monster who runs like Dustin Keller or Ed Dickson or dominates smaller db's like Jimmy Graham. They are out there this year to be had but this has to be a priority position ahead of almost any other outside of quarterback.

Sparano and Ireland resisted drafting a seam busting TE for 4 years and they've been proven wrong season after season.

Charles Clay doesn't have the size needed to block ends and backers. He's not the prototypical kind of player you want at the spot that has become a crucial positions for teams like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Green Bay,NE, NO and other top teams. Nor is Anthony Fasano. The Falcons went out and traded for Tony Gonzalez as soon as they drated Matt Ryan. Great move and I hope we follow suit with a QB and big time TE this year.

its a copycat and matchup league and we haven't kept pace with the top teams precisely because the Parcells philosophy values the Bavaro type TE ala Fasano far more than the explosive Jermichael Finley type TE.

You can bet that if Rob Chudzinski or even Brian Billick is hired as HC they will remedy the situation quickly.

I like Fasano and Clay but think they'd be even better with an Orson Charles or Dwayne Allen on the same unit. an offense with Bush, Clay, our wide receivers and a top TE would be far more potent.

I think Flacco will be far better as a qb because he has Ed Dickson and Dennis Pitta, the Pat's offense is more dangerous than it has ever been and I believe on of the major reasons Aaron Rodgers progressed so well is that he has a dangerous tight end in Finley who makes him and his WR's more successful.

I'm sort of surprised Ireland and the dopey Dallas 3 didn't try to replicate the success they had in Dallas with Jason Witten and Fasano (is it really possible not to have drafted one pure TE in 4 years when every other good team has?) but I think a lot of that was Tony S jumping up and down in the war room for players like Shawn Murphy and John Jerry when guys like Jimmy Graham were on the board.

It has to stop.

Roman529
12-15-2011, 06:41 PM
Coby Fleener of Stanford....that's who we need.

ckparrothead
12-15-2011, 06:58 PM
I don't see it as a major need at all. I think between Anthony Fasano and Charles Clay you have guys that are versatile, can be a threat in the passing game, and Anthony Fasano can handle the kind of workload as a blocker that is usually reserved for blocking specialists.

Would I like to add two more bodies to that group and then keep the best 3rd tight end? Absolutely.

But do I feel like we need to use a valuable resource on it? Absolutely not.

It's not THAT hard to find good players at that position, IMO. The only reason we couldn't until Charles Clay came along is because they didn't even try. They kept messing around with other teams' trash like Jeron Mastrud, Mickey Shuler, Dedrick Epps, Joey Haynos, Davon Drew and Kory Sperry. These were guys we picked up off waivers when the team they were on decided they weren't good enough to roster. And guess what. They weren't good enough to roster here, either. The only exception is Dante Rosario which I thought was a decent signing and for whatever reason we dropped him, and now he's making plays for the Broncos.

They drafted John Nalbone...that was a misguided draft pick. But Charles Clay was a pretty decent shout in the 6th round and he shows you just how easy it can be to add a valuable player at the position if you just get your head out of your arse long enough to do it.

Do I think we need a #3 Tight End better than Jeron Mastrud? Yes. Absolutely. Let me pick that guy and I'll pick you two players you can bring to camp and I guarantee one of them will be good enough to roster and have come in for roles on the offense. And I don't need a valuable resource to do it, either.

mfish41
12-15-2011, 07:17 PM
I don't see it as a major need at all. I think between Anthony Fasano and Charles Clay you have guys that are versatile, can be a threat in the passing game, and Anthony Fasano can handle the kind of workload as a blocker that is usually reserved for blocking specialists.

Would I like to add two more bodies to that group and then keep the best 3rd tight end? Absolutely.

But do I feel like we need to use a valuable resource on it? Absolutely not.

It's not THAT hard to find good players at that position, IMO. The only reason we couldn't until Charles Clay came along is because they didn't even try. They kept messing around with other teams' trash like Jeron Mastrud, Mickey Shuler, Dedrick Epps, Joey Haynos, Davon Drew and Kory Sperry. These were guys we picked up off waivers when the team they were on decided they weren't good enough to roster. And guess what. They weren't good enough to roster here, either. The only exception is Dante Rosario which I thought was a decent signing and for whatever reason we dropped him, and now he's making plays for the Broncos.

They drafted John Nalbone...that was a misguided draft pick. But Charles Clay was a pretty decent shout in the 6th round and he shows you just how easy it can be to add a valuable player at the position if you just get your head out of your arse long enough to do it.

Do I think we need a #3 Tight End better than Jeron Mastrud? Yes. Absolutely. Let me pick that guy and I'll pick you two players you can bring to camp and I guarantee one of them will be good enough to roster and have come in for roles on the offense. And I don't need a valuable resource to do it, either.

i don't agree. Just listing some of the top te's in the league off the top of my head not necessarily in any order Gronk, gonzalez, witten, hernandez, graham, keller, finley, gates, owen daniels, pettigrew, and winslow. All of these guys with the exceptions of Gates and Daniels (4th Round) were drafted in the top 3 rounds. I say you do need to address the position early.

uga3406
12-15-2011, 07:27 PM
i don't agree. Just listing some of the top te's in the league off the top of my head not necessarily in any order Gronk, gonzalez, witten, hernandez, graham, keller, finley, gates, owen daniels, pettigrew, and winslow. All of these guys with the exceptions of Gates and Daniels (4th Round) were drafted in the top 3 rounds. I say you do need to address the position early.

Maybe if we had a good gm, we would address this position early in the draft one year.

VAMinnow
12-15-2011, 07:29 PM
You mention Dwayne Allen. While this guy is a superb athlete, I don't think he is you guy for "monster tight end." I don't think he's that seam guy in the likes of Graham and Finley. The height is not there. I feel like he's more of an H-back like Clay. If you drafted Allen, you would just be upgrading Clay.

I do believe the TE position is being revitalized in the NFL. I just don't think upgrading our H-back position is going to fall into place this year.

mfish41
12-15-2011, 07:33 PM
You mention Dwayne Allen. While this guy is a superb athlete, I don't think he is you guy for "monster tight end." I don't think he's that seam guy in the likes of Graham and Finley. The height is not there. I feel like he's more of an H-back like Clay. If you drafted Allen, you would just be upgrading Clay.

I do believe the TE position is being revitalized in the NFL. I just don't think upgrading our H-back position is going to fall into place this year.

Allen's build and style kinda reminds me of Algae Crumpler. He should be a solid TE in the NFL, but nowhere near the freak of natures that are jimmy graham or jermichael finley.

Generic Name
12-15-2011, 08:00 PM
I don't see it as a major need at all. I think between Anthony Fasano and Charles Clay you have guys that are versatile, can be a threat in the passing game, and Anthony Fasano can handle the kind of workload as a blocker that is usually reserved for blocking specialists.

Would I like to add two more bodies to that group and then keep the best 3rd tight end? Absolutely.

But do I feel like we need to use a valuable resource on it? Absolutely not.

It's not THAT hard to find good players at that position, IMO. The only reason we couldn't until Charles Clay came along is because they didn't even try. They kept messing around with other teams' trash like Jeron Mastrud, Mickey Shuler, Dedrick Epps, Joey Haynos, Davon Drew and Kory Sperry. These were guys we picked up off waivers when the team they were on decided they weren't good enough to roster. And guess what. They weren't good enough to roster here, either. The only exception is Dante Rosario which I thought was a decent signing and for whatever reason we dropped him, and now he's making plays for the Broncos.

They drafted John Nalbone...that was a misguided draft pick. But Charles Clay was a pretty decent shout in the 6th round and he shows you just how easy it can be to add a valuable player at the position if you just get your head out of your arse long enough to do it.

Do I think we need a #3 Tight End better than Jeron Mastrud? Yes. Absolutely. Let me pick that guy and I'll pick you two players you can bring to camp and I guarantee one of them will be good enough to roster and have come in for roles on the offense. And I don't need a valuable resource to do it, either.

CK- I really think you're missing the boat here.

Tight end has become a critical position in the NFL. The league is constantly evolving and one of the latest trends is putting a guy with the size and or speed of a small forward or shooting guard who is too fast for LB's and too big for db's to cover. It is working well all over the league from NE to SF and I don't count John Nalbone as a good enough attempt to keep pace with the rest of the league.

Fasano and Clay don't equal Gronk+Hernandez or Pitta and Dickson or even the dominance of Jimmy Graham or Jermichael Finley.

Upgrading Mastrud isn't a worthy or productive goal, Miami has to upgrade Fasano.

We've had problems scoring in the red zone and making big chunk plays that lead to touchdowns and points. A better TE would help with both.

Generic Name
12-15-2011, 08:18 PM
You mention Dwayne Allen. While this guy is a superb athlete, I don't think he is you guy for "monster tight end." I don't think he's that seam guy in the likes of Graham and Finley. The height is not there. I feel like he's more of an H-back like Clay. If you drafted Allen, you would just be upgrading Clay.

I do believe the TE position is being revitalized in the NFL. I just don't think upgrading our H-back position is going to fall into place this year.

ESPN lists Allen at 6'4" 255, a big dude, even if they're an inch and a few pounds off which doesn't appear to be the case after watching Allen play a few weeks ago.

ckparrothead
12-15-2011, 08:57 PM
i don't agree. Just listing some of the top te's in the league off the top of my head not necessarily in any order Gronk, gonzalez, witten, hernandez, graham, keller, finley, gates, owen daniels, pettigrew, and winslow. All of these guys with the exceptions of Gates and Daniels (4th Round) were drafted in the top 3 rounds. I say you do need to address the position early.

The problem with your list is, the only ones among them that I would for sure take above Anthony Fasano are Rob Gronkowski, Jimmy Graham, Jermichael Finley and Antonio Gates. That's really it. The rest you can take or leave, depending on the needs of your offense. Anthony Fasano goes out there and blocks like an offensive tackle and then oh by the way he's on pace for 500+ yards and 5 TDs with Abelard and Heloise throwing the football. I'm not the only one seeing this. Fasano's got the 5th highest grade among all Tight Ends on Pro Football Focus. Hell if you ranked Charles Clay amongst all those TEs no matter where he lines up on any given play, he's top 16 in the league in their ratings.

I just don't think it's a huge need. If you see a special guy and you've just GOT to have him, and you have a clear vision for exactly how he's going to make a difference in your offense, I'm not opposed to it. But otherwise, I'm of the mind set to just let me dig into the free agent and draft class and find an underrated guy that can fill a role.

hooshoops
12-15-2011, 09:03 PM
so far ck from what i've seen the opposition hasn't even been accounting for clay in coverage...he's running a lot of stuff against zone looks and no one is ever lining up across from him at the los when he's flexed out...i'm impressed with what i've seen as a pass receiving threat but til we see teams pay attention to him and him beat man coverage i can't sit here and say he's the seam threat mismatch this team needs on a consistent basis...

but i also see what you're saying regarding we already have some in house options to work with...although i'm not sure if fasano is even signed for next season and if he is and he's got a high cap # i could see us looking elsewhere...

and i'll never agree with any grade that says fasanos a top 5 te in this league...never

ckparrothead
12-15-2011, 09:07 PM
CK- I really think you're missing the boat here.

Tight end has become a critical position in the NFL. The league is constantly evolving and one of the latest trends is putting a guy with the size and or speed of a small forward or shooting guard who is too fast for LB's and too big for db's to cover. It is working well all over the league from NE to SF and I don't count John Nalbone as a good enough attempt to keep pace with the rest of the league.

Fasano and Clay don't equal Gronk+Hernandez or Pitta and Dickson or even the dominance of Jimmy Graham or Jermichael Finley.

Upgrading Mastrud isn't a worthy or productive goal, Miami has to upgrade Fasano.

We've had problems scoring in the red zone and making big chunk plays that lead to touchdowns and points. A better TE would help with both.

I was as big a Dennis Pitta fan as you could find in that Draft and I also like what I've seen out of Ed Dickson, but I don't think they as a duo are appreciably better than Anthony Fasano and Charles Clay. Sorry, I'm just not buying what you're selling there.

Rob Gronkowski, Jimmy Graham, Jermichael Finley, Tony Gonzalez, Antonio Gates...these are SPECIAL players. They're not any kind of trend or any kind of new wave. How long was it that Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates were in a class of their own, and then there was everyone else? So they've been joined by a few more really good players. Those two are fading anyway, it's about time for the next generation to step up and provide its own stars.

When Miami had a lot of trouble on offense early in the year, Charles Clay wasn't even playing football yet. They kept using him as a true fullback and hadn't gotten him involved in the passing game. They didn't begin rectifying that mistake until about Week 4, when coincidentally Matt Moore entered the game as our quarterback. Fasano and Clay have been making plays ever since and when they have a better QB throwing them the ball, they'll make even more plays.

HybridPHIN 23
12-15-2011, 09:12 PM
The Dolphins have treated the TE spot like they have every other position on offense not involving the running game. They've ignored it and built around average RB's. We've been crying for a QB,WR,TE for ten years. The franchise clearly has been lacking in their efforts to build a formidable offense.

Fasano is a nice TE but not a real passing attack TE. We're looking for someone who can be a legitimate threat outside the box.He's smart but limited physically. You can't say he has good hands and his ball handling skills are pretty awful.

I don't think clay is the answer either. I want a guy who can be your possession receiver, like all the other good TE's.

ckparrothead
12-15-2011, 09:13 PM
so far ck from what i've seen the opposition hasn't even been accounting for clay in coverage...he's running a lot of stuff against zone looks and no one is ever lining up across from him at the los when he's flexed out...i'm impressed with what i've seen as a pass receiving threat but til we see teams pay attention to him and him beat man coverage i can't sit here and say he's the seam threat mismatch this team needs on a consistent basis...

but i also see what you're saying regarding we already have some in house options to work with...although i'm not sure if fasano is even signed for next season and if he is and he's got a high cap # i could see us looking elsewhere...

and i'll never agree with any grade that says fasanos a top 5 te in this league...never

Fasano is signed through next year. He's a free agent in 2013.

The point isn't that Anthony is some great top 5 tight end out there. The point is that right now there is Rob Gronkowski, Jimmy Graham, Jermichael Finley, Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzalez...and then everyone else. And those "everyone else" guys are all pretty interchangeable, and that includes Anthony Fasano. And even in that top group, Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzalez are clearly slipping. They're not long for this world anymore.

When I watch Owen Daniels play football and I watch Anthony Fasano play football, I'm sorry but I don't see Owen being appreciably better. Not even Brandon Pettigrew, or Heath Miller, or even Jason Witten who has CLEARLY lost a lot of the explosiveness he once possessed. Or Zach Miller, who signed a big money deal.

It's just not a priority for me. I'll prioritize a PLAYER that position, if I find one...but I'm not prioritizing the position. I think that would be foolish at this juncture.

hooshoops
12-15-2011, 09:14 PM
it really depends on if something was to fall in your lap...if an athletic mismatch who can run and separate down the field thats also a big target like coby fleener was to fall til the top of the 3rd round i think that might be a weapon in todays nfl thats too good to pass up...you can design ways to get that kid down the field and him make plays...he's not as tough as i like but he can get down the seam and he'll provide a big target...and you can split him out like a wr in some sets...i just think that kind of guy adds versatility and playmaking to your receiving core and provided you have a oc who's worth his salt and knows how to get that kid on the field and create mismatches will make plays and open things up for others

hooshoops
12-15-2011, 09:21 PM
Fasano is signed through next year. He's a free agent in 2013.

The point isn't that Anthony is some great top 5 tight end out there. The point is that right now there is Rob Gronkowski, Jimmy Graham, Jermichael Finley, Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzalez...and then everyone else. And those "everyone else" guys are all pretty interchangeable, and that includes Anthony Fasano. And even in that top group, Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzalez are clearly slipping. They're not long for this world anymore.

When I watch Owen Daniels play football and I watch Anthony Fasano play football, I'm sorry but I don't see Owen being appreciably better. Not even Brandon Pettigrew, or Heath Miller, or even Jason Witten who has CLEARLY lost a lot of the explosiveness he once possessed. Or Zach Miller, who signed a big money deal.

It's just not a priority for me. I'll prioritize a PLAYER that position, if I find one...but I'm not prioritizing the position. I think that would be foolish at this juncture.

i would agree with that...gates is nowhere near the same player he used to be whitten is long in the tooth gonzalez has come down to earth...zach miller imo has been underutilized by seattle this year but i see what you're saying with there aren't many MASSIVE upgrades to fasano in the league...i would just like to get more consistent athletic seam mismatch and must account for guy at the position or at least in the 3 deep and active and in the gameplan on gameday

ckparrothead
12-15-2011, 09:34 PM
If I see another Jimmy Graham, I'd probably be all over him. I was all over Jimmy Graham back then, and I'd probably be again. I mean, I just got through how many posts about Joseph Fauria at UCLA? It's clearly prospect-based. And I like Dwayne Allen as a prospect. But what he adds isn't changing what we have enough for me to spend a high pick on him.

What I want is the whole kitten kaboodle. I want Rob Gronkowski. I want Jimmy Graham. I want Jermichael Finley. I want the next Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates from back in their prime.

But I look at this Tight End class and, keeping in mind that I was actually a fan of the 2011 class whereas everyone seemed to be really down on it...I'm not seeing guys that inspire me here. Dwayne Allen is good...but I still think he's an H-Back. I don't see him as the next Jermichael Finley and certainly not the next Jimmy Graham or Rob Gronkowski. Coby Fleener I'm still trying to figure out. Orson Charles I'm still trying to figure out. And the only value play I can come up with that interests me at all right now is Josh Chichester.

TedSlimmJr
12-15-2011, 09:51 PM
I'm with the OP here on the TE position and have been for about 10 years or so now. I've never cared a nickel's worth for PFF's statistics about anybody. Anthony Fasano isn't a top 5 TE in the NFL and never will be.

I knew Charles Clay was a hell of a pick in the 6th round. However, I don't believe Fasano and Clay as a combo comes anywhere close to Ed Dickson and Dennis Pitta as a combo. The latter will seperate themselves in the years to come.

Upgrading Fasano will always be a goal this team should strive for until they do it. I'm not looking to upgrade the waste of a good jersey that Miami likes to accumulate at the #3 TE position. If I can upgrade Fasano, I automatically upgrade the #3 TE position, along with the #2 TE position, and the #1 TE position.

The only legitimate upgrades for the #1 TE position in this class come in the form of underclassmen, and it'll depend on who goes pro and who stays, although there is one or two Senior prospects like Coby Fleener and Ladarius Green that upgrade the athletic ability of Miami's TE position significantly.

I like Vandy's Brandon Barden as a guy I can get late to bring in be a legitimate developmental TE. Probably Michael Egnew and Josh Chichester as well. Point being, finding a guy worth developing at the position isn't hard to find. Finding a guy who you think can legitimately threaten to be one of the best weapons at TE in the NFL is hard to find.

I think it's extremely important to have a real weapon at the TE position to attack the seam. A real athlete you can split out wide and get isolated on a safety or linebacker in a one-on-one matchup. Not just a guy who's 'not bad' or just gets you by. I don't think TE is a position where you should ever be satisfied unless you have a legitimate weapon there who's one of the best in the league, similar to the QB position.

I'm definitely looking to upgrade the TE position in this draft with some legitimate talent, and I think it's there.

Generic Name
12-15-2011, 09:58 PM
i would agree with that...gates is nowhere near the same player he used to be whitten is long in the tooth gonzalez has come down to earth...zach miller imo has been underutilized by seattle this year but i see what you're saying with there aren't many MASSIVE upgrades to fasano in the league...i would just like to get more consistent athletic seam mismatch and must account for guy at the position or at least in the 3 deep and active and in the gameplan on gameday

This is insane. There are 10 or 15 easy upgrades over Fasano as a TE. The 2 Patriot TE's, Pettigrew, Finley, Greg Olsen, Schiancoe, Celek, Keller, Gresham, Heath Miller, Mercedes Lewis, Jimmy Graham, Ed Dickson are all more explosive and.or productive than Fasano, who as stated is a good but not great TE. I'm sorry but I guessed you missed the Thanksgiving game where Witten clearly showed he's at least as good if not better than Fasano. Owen Daniel has been hurt but is also more explosive than Fasano when healthy as is Zach Miller. Cleveland has a TE who can be better as well. Apologies if I missed any TE's which I'm sure I did.

The point is most good teams and offense have invested a pick in the first three rounds recently on this position because it has gained importance in their offensive schemes. We have not and it is one of the reasons we don't score in the red zone and don't threaten defenses down the seam.

I think we're burying our heads in the sand if we think we can keep playing the same boring, plodding Wannstedt/Sparano style offense and compete with the better teams in the league.

CK saying he'll prioritize a player not a position is basically an endorsement of a system which doesn't work. You go into a draft these days with a philosophy of how you're enhance your roster given your needs and your schemes. Our schemes on offense aren't working and haven't worked since Pennington had David Martin and Fasano. Of the 2, Martin was the big play producer and deep threat.

This is a draft which appears deep at TE. You can't sit back as CK suggests and just pull a TE out of the late rounds. A poster in here accurately showed that most of the better TE's were taken in the top 3 rounds. Its delusional to think you can get a premier prospect at TE whenever you want.

If the Dolphins sit back again and don't get aggressive for a QB and TE we're going to be looking at the same average to below offense that can't keep up with the Pats, Jets or other teams in the conference.

TedSlimmJr
12-15-2011, 10:04 PM
Furthermore, I've never understood why someone would consider Dwayne Allen nothing more than an H-back, when he was clearly dominant playing on the line of scrimmage as a sophomore. He's one of the best blocking TE's in the country, but also has some terrific skills as a pass catcher and as an athlete. Playing H-back in Chad Morris' offense has nothing to do with his role in the NFL. Any coach that prefers to run 21-personnel or a pro-style set is going to have Dwayne Allen on the LOS.... Chad Morris doesn't.

Orson Charles is dynamite as both a pass receiver and one of the better athletes at the TE position that I've seen, but not nearly the blocker Dwayne Allen is. I'd take both.


You're not going to find the next Jermichael Finley, Ed Dickson, Rob Gronkowski, Jimmy Graham, or Tony Gonzalez focusing on great 'blocking' tight ends. That's where you'll find your upgrades for the #3 TE spot.

You have to look on the shelf labeled "athletes" in order to find a great one... and they're going early.

Generic Name
12-15-2011, 10:10 PM
If I see another Jimmy Graham, I'd probably be all over him. I was all over Jimmy Graham back then, and I'd probably be again. I mean, I just got through how many posts about Joseph Fauria at UCLA? It's clearly prospect-based. And I like Dwayne Allen as a prospect. But what he adds isn't changing what we have enough for me to spend a high pick on him.

What I want is the whole kitten kaboodle. I want Rob Gronkowski. I want Jimmy Graham. I want Jermichael Finley. I want the next Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates from back in their prime.

But I look at this Tight End class and, keeping in mind that I was actually a fan of the 2011 class whereas everyone seemed to be really down on it...I'm not seeing guys that inspire me here. Dwayne Allen is good...but I still think he's an H-Back. I don't see him as the next Jermichael Finley and certainly not the next Jimmy Graham or Rob Gronkowski. Coby Fleener I'm still trying to figure out. Orson Charles I'm still trying to figure out. And the only value play I can come up with that interests me at all right now is Josh Chichester.

I don't see Allen having a problem as an every down TE with his size and blocking ability. I've checked his size again and a second source (Kiper) has him at 6'4" 255

Egnew and Fleener could also both be receiving upgrades over Fasano. Orson Charles has a ton of potential as a mismatch TE

The teams who drafted Graham and Finley weren't sure they had studs on their hand but I bet both coaches and OC's saw them as having more potential than players at other positions

I'd rather take a chance on a TE prospect being great rather than drafting another RG prospect.

TedSlimmJr
12-15-2011, 10:25 PM
Jermichael Finley, Ed Dickson, Dustin Keller, David Martin, etc... these guys were nothing more than overgrown, 'rocked up' WR's coming out of college. They all had the size, speed, and athletic ability to be tremendous weapons in the passing game and make plays on the football. They can actually attack the football in the air with their hands, the way a big WR does.

I think that's what the teams that picked 'em saw when they decided to draft 'em. Miami needs to do the same.

They need to target the kids who bring this type of upside and ability to the position. It doesn't matter if he's nothing more than a stalk/interferrence blocker at this point. Coach him up in that area.

You can't coach a plodder to be fast, or a slug to be an athletic mis-match for you in the passing game. If he looks like a school bus coming in and out of his breaks... it doesn't matter how good of a blocker he is. It's not what Miami needs in order to be explosive offensively.

hooshoops
12-15-2011, 11:15 PM
This is insane. There are 10 or 15 easy upgrades over Fasano as a TE. The 2 Patriot TE's, Pettigrew, Finley, Greg Olsen, Schiancoe, Celek, Keller, Gresham, Heath Miller, Mercedes Lewis, Jimmy Graham, Ed Dickson are all more explosive and.or productive than Fasano, who as stated is a good but not great TE. I'm sorry but I guessed you missed the Thanksgiving game where Witten clearly showed he's at least as good if not better than Fasano. Owen Daniel has been hurt but is also more explosive than Fasano when healthy as is Zach Miller. Cleveland has a TE who can be better as well. Apologies if I missed any TE's which I'm sure I did.

The point is most good teams and offense have invested a pick in the first three rounds recently on this position because it has gained importance in their offensive schemes. We have not and it is one of the reasons we don't score in the red zone and don't threaten defenses down the seam.

I think we're burying our heads in the sand if we think we can keep playing the same boring, plodding Wannstedt/Sparano style offense and compete with the better teams in the league.

CK saying he'll prioritize a player not a position is basically an endorsement of a system which doesn't work. You go into a draft these days with a philosophy of how you're enhance your roster given your needs and your schemes. Our schemes on offense aren't working and haven't worked since Pennington had David Martin and Fasano. Of the 2, Martin was the big play producer and deep threat.

This is a draft which appears deep at TE. You can't sit back as CK suggests and just pull a TE out of the late rounds. A poster in here accurately showed that most of the better TE's were taken in the top 3 rounds. Its delusional to think you can get a premier prospect at TE whenever you want.

If the Dolphins sit back again and don't get aggressive for a QB and TE we're going to be looking at the same average to below offense that can't keep up with the Pats, Jets or other teams in the conference.

you must have missed the part where i bolded the word massive...i don't agree that all those names you mentioned are massive upgrades to fasano...but you can get off your soap box with me cause there's plenty of people here who can tell ya that i've always viewed fasano as pretty average and even used the term "dump truck" for him as a vertical threat and i've been asking for an athletic seam threat te on this roster for the last 3 years it seems and we've never even sniffed the position in the draft...and i never once said i'd sit back and wait til a late round pick on the position...i said if something fell into my lap i'd be on it...and that goes for just about any position...talent is talent...but i'm not gonna take a orson charles in the top 10 just cause i could use a athletic te...i'm gonna take him if he warrants the pick...and imo outside of dwayne allen no te warrants top 20 even consideration...

i can tell ya this though...i'd fill the athletic te in the draft 10 times before i'd take a right tackle...i know that much...right tackles are not hard to find

PSU Cane
12-15-2011, 11:46 PM
We already have an Orson Charles on the team....he's Charles Clay. Clay is 6'3 245. Orson Charles is 6'3 241. Both are extremely athletic and mismatches in the pass game, but smaller targets and not great blockers. Drafting Orson Charles would be a waste.

I could deal with drafting Fleener, but i think we have bigger needs on the team at Oline, WR, QB, and DB.

hooshoops
12-15-2011, 11:48 PM
b/t guys whats so damn great about dustin keller??? if you ask me he's nothing special by any means

VAMinnow
12-16-2011, 12:01 AM
b/t guys whats so damn great about dustin keller??? if you ask me he's nothing special by any means

I agree. He started his career pretty hot, but has since fizzled. He does have Sanchez as his QB though.