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View Full Version : If QB can not be had in Round 1



Generic Name
12-22-2011, 12:02 PM
Courtney Upshaw OLB Alabama

Hoping like hell Nolan is retained but think system will stay as a 3-4 most likely. If a QB can't be obtained worthy of the 6,7, 8 pick whatever we have I say go for a pass rusher and the best option is this guy.

I still like Misi but could see him as a rush down OLB or even moved inside should Burnett or Dansby miss any time.

Upshaw has the pass rush skills and playmaking ability which could complement what Wake does.

we'll know a lot more about how this draft could set up after the 4pm Barkley presser.

MiamiDolphin618
12-22-2011, 02:54 PM
Courtney Upshaw OLB Alabama

Hoping like hell Nolan is retained but think system will stay as a 3-4 most likely. If a QB can't be obtained worthy of the 6,7, 8 pick whatever we have I say go for a pass rusher and the best option is this guy.

I still like Misi but could see him as a rush down OLB or even moved inside should Burnett or Dansby miss any time.

Upshaw has the pass rush skills and playmaking ability which could complement what Wake does.

we'll know a lot more about how this draft could set up after the 4pm Barkley presser.

Couldnt agree more. I wish we would have a chance at Mo Claiborne..but we wont. Upshaw would be the next guy I would be looking at.

slosh13
12-22-2011, 02:59 PM
Right now this is depressing to talk about!!!

LESalazar3
12-22-2011, 03:01 PM
I'm mixed on this. OLB is a definite need and I like Upshaw but I also think CB is an issue opposite Davis. Sean Smith has taken a few steps back. Would Dre Kirkpatrick from Alabama be an upgrade and move Smith to the Nickel?

How about offense? I don't like spending a first round pick on a RT or RG. I wouldn't mind drafting that position if we trade down but if we stay around 10-12, I would like to draft WR opposite Marshall. Hartline disappears too much. I do think Gates will have a bigger role next year with a full training camp but someone like Alshon Jeffery from South Carolina or Michael Floyd from Notre Dame could next year's A.J. Green or Julio Jones.

hooshoops
12-22-2011, 03:05 PM
knowing ireland if upshaw measures in at the combine at like 6 ft 1 1/2 he'll probably be off our draft board...

MiamiDolphin618
12-22-2011, 03:05 PM
Right now this is depressing to talk about!!!
Haha I agree. If Barkley goes back...its going to be a sad day. Griffin might be going back as well...and he only somewhat interests me. Never know...could be the best thing if we somehow end up with a healthy Peyton Manning

datruth55
12-22-2011, 03:13 PM
knowing ireland if upshaw measures in at the combine at like 6 ft 1 1/2 he'll probably be off our draft board...
If he drafts by the Parcells rules for drafting then Upshaw will be off the board...don't know that he would draft him if he came in at 6'2". Isn't the Parcells minimum like 6'3"?

So help me if Ireland drafts another offensive or defensive lineman in the first round.

ckparrothead
12-22-2011, 03:23 PM
The real dilemma is this: if Barkley, Griffin and Jones all return to school as Tony Pauline is indicating, then it considerably pushes up the draft stock of Brandon Weeden. Can you count on getting him in the 2nd round after this? I don't think so. I really don't.

hooshoops
12-22-2011, 03:38 PM
The real dilemma is this: if Barkley, Griffin and Jones all return to school as Tony Pauline is indicating, then it considerably pushes up the draft stock of Brandon Weeden. Can you count on getting him in the 2nd round after this? I don't think so. I really don't.

this helps weeden no doubt...but i still think at the end of the day and even after mayock starts looking at his tape and talking about his arm etc on nfl network during the draft process like we all know is coming his age will keep him out of round 1...now early round 2...i think that is very much in play if all these kids stay in school...very much...

Generic Name
12-22-2011, 04:08 PM
The real dilemma is this: if Barkley, Griffin and Jones all return to school as Tony Pauline is indicating, then it considerably pushes up the draft stock of Brandon Weeden. Can you count on getting him in the 2nd round after this? I don't think so. I really don't.

Griffin's folks are shopping for agents. I wouldn't be surprised either way with him. He loves Baylor but his stock may never be higher. My guess is he comes out
Jones should go back to school after the awful month he just had. I can't see him getting drafted in top 20 picks of this year's draft.

Barkley is a mystery. Have to think the Ryan Khalil entry made him think twice about coming back.

Parcells' draft measurables are about as valid and valuable as his other draft acumen. He was a good coach but very average talent evaluator who bilked his last 2 teams out of tens of millions of dollars. if Ireland is the least bit savvy he dumps his former mentor's 1980's stone age draft methodology

ckparrothead
12-22-2011, 04:23 PM
Well you know how I keep saying this draft process is not favorable to a junior Matt Barkley, right?

It's the opposite for Brandon Weeden.

His two weaknesses are age and system. The system shows during the Oklahoma State games. Well, he'll soon be going about 4 months without playing another Oklahoma State game. He's not going to walk through the Combine and his Pro Day with a tattoo on his forehead that says "Air Raid". The age shows...pretty much only when you look at his birth certificate. When he walks into an interview room he's not going to be holding a cane and yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

But his strengths? His strengths are the fact that he can leave smoke trails on the football, his play during football games, his leadership in a practice and field setting and great size.

He's going to have the opportunity to showcase a lot of those strengths. I think when he gets off the bus he WILL look like a pretty impressive, big guy...almost like a Roethlisberger. Very solid. When he gets in the interview room he won't impress with Robert Griffin's thoughtfulness but he WILL impress with his maturity and the fact that it'll become quickly obvious to anyone that talks to the man that he's a total sports nut that would be watching any and every sport every day if he wasn't playing. He'll jive with people that way.

When he gets to the Senior Bowl he's going to leave smoke trails on the ball AND impress with that maturity and leadership. I think anyone observing closely will find that the offense and even the other quarterbacks naturally respond to him as their leader. He kind of has a little bit of an unfair advantage that way, I'll admit. But I've certainly seen plenty of 28 years olds that don't necessarily exude that leadership or that command of the room.

When he gets to the Combine, first off I think he'll throw there and of course everyone will be impressed with the quality of his throws next to other guys. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised with his medical file which is not as bad as some have led the public to believe. He recently reached out to me privately to set the story straight on his shoulder and what exactly happened there and it's not nearly as bad as people have claimed. I think the scouts are also going to be pleasantly surprised when they get him in tights and put him on a track and start timing and measuring him, as he's a much better athlete than given credit for.

When he gets to his Pro Day of course he will again leave smoke trails on the ball.

And all the while one thing that I think is going to be a running story, especially during Senior Bowl practices, is how naturally he adapts to dropback mechanics and rhythm. People can disagree...that's ok, it's just a prediction. But this guy is football's version of Roy Hobbs. He's so damn natural in everything he does, and I insist that based on the stuff I've seen from having watched nearly every snap he's played, that his feet are quicker than people give him credit for, he's a better athlete. I think he takes to dropback rhythm like a fish in water.

This is going to be a very GOOD process for Weeden. He will have plenty of opportunities to showcase his strengths, and will have opportunities to soothe fears as well. He will not be asked to do anything that rubs his weaknesses in the scouts' noses. This process just FITS his unique profile as a prospect. That's why it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up going in the 1st round.

datruth55
12-22-2011, 04:32 PM
lol, love the Roy Hobbs reference ck. One of my all time favorite movies.

Kistner10
12-22-2011, 04:44 PM
I really don't think Weeden will go in round 1 even if all 3 go back to school. I think it pushes Tannehill, Cousins, and Foles up a little bit, but teams like us, WAS, and CLE won't draft those QB's this early. I think we'll go BPA and than try and draft one of those guys early in round 2.

My wish if we didn't get a QB would be to somehow end up with Clairborne and move Sean Smith to FS.

PSU Cane
12-22-2011, 04:53 PM
I like Upshaw but i think top 10 is a little high for him b/c he doesn't have great measureables and i wonder if he will be able to play in space successfully in the NFL, something he wasn't asked to do a lot of at Bama. He reminds me a lot of Harrison from Pittsburgh.

If the Phins can't go QB and are looking LB, do they look at Kuechly? The guy is a STUD and would allow them to move Dansby to the OLB spot that Upshaw would fill. While Dansby isn't a good a rusher at Upshaw, he's still ok and much better in coverage. Or do they look at need and look at OL (Reiff, Martin, DeCastro), CB (Claiborne), WR (Jeffery), or BPA (Richardson)?

Cumar
12-22-2011, 04:58 PM
I like Upshaw but i think top 10 is a little high for him b/c he doesn't have great measureables and i wonder if he will be able to play in space successfully in the NFL, something he wasn't asked to do a lot of at Bama. He reminds me a lot of Harrison from Pittsburgh.

If the Phins can't go QB and are looking LB, do they look at Kuechly? The guy is a STUD and would allow them to move Dansby to the OLB spot that Upshaw would fill. While Dansby isn't a good a rusher at Upshaw, he's still ok and much better in coverage. Or do they look at need and look at OL (Reiff, Martin, DeCastro), CB (Claiborne), WR (Jeffery), or BPA (Richardson)?

Said this in another thread, if you can't get a QB, either move down and take BPA wherever you move down to OR take the best OLB on the board. We need a guy opposite Wake and the really good edge rushers aren't found anywhere but the draft. Teams will not let go of good edge rushers very easily.

Generic Name
12-22-2011, 05:00 PM
I like Upshaw but i think top 10 is a little high for him b/c he doesn't have great measureables and i wonder if he will be able to play in space successfully in the NFL, something he wasn't asked to do a lot of at Bama. He reminds me a lot of Harrison from Pittsburgh.

If the Phins can't go QB and are looking LB, do they look at Kuechly? The guy is a STUD and would allow them to move Dansby to the OLB spot that Upshaw would fill. While Dansby isn't a good a rusher at Upshaw, he's still ok and much better in coverage. Or do they look at need and look at OL (Reiff, Martin, DeCastro), CB (Claiborne), WR (Jeffery), or BPA (Richardson)?

I like Kuechly. Favor Upshaw a little more as he's a pass rusher but both would make plays.

Claiborne probably gone, Richardson could go too, we all know how I feel about another OL in first round so I won't go into that and I think Jeffrey's 40 time will scare off teams picking as high as we will.

Kistner10
12-22-2011, 05:03 PM
If we go RT in the first, and i'm not opposed to that if we can't land an elite QB prospect, then we need to trade down. WAY DOWN. Try to pick up extra picks not only in the upcoming draft but the following draft as well.

uga3406
12-22-2011, 05:18 PM
With Barkley going back to school, we should now trade all our picks for Luck....no other quarterback is worth trading up for..love rg 3 but he is more of a project

PSU Cane
12-22-2011, 05:18 PM
I think this draft has a lot of value late in Round 1 and in Round 2, so i'd really like to trade down too. But you need to find a team willing to do that, and that can be difficult at times especially with less star players remaining on the board when we pick.

beanh8er
12-22-2011, 05:18 PM
Maybe Blackmon in round 1 and Weeden in round 2? Hell it doesn't even matter who you have at QB with Marshall and Blackmon out there.

armyphin
12-22-2011, 05:20 PM
it considerably pushes up the draft stock of Brandon Weeden. Can you count on getting him in the 2nd round after this? I don't think so. I really don't.
You still don't draft him in the first. Let another team take that chance.

No QB available, grab the best player available that will make an immediate impact and improvement to the team. It's not rocket science.

Honestly, the Dolphins shouldn't even think about a QB this draft. The options available aren't upgrades to who's on the team now. Stick with Moore and Devlin, resigning Henne is an option (some here will hate) and focus on rebuilding other team needs.

ckparrothead
12-22-2011, 05:29 PM
Even with Barkley returning to school, even if Pauline thinks RG3 will return as well, I think it's premature to start thinking that Miami will definitely look at a non-QB. I think they'd take Tannehill at #7 overall, or trade for Luck if that's a possibility, or maybe trade the pick for a veteran. But either way Steve Ross is not accepting watered down options at that position this off season, IMO.

That said if we're forcing ourselves as an exercise to look at the other non-QB options we could take in the top 10 then I think you have to look at Quinton Coples and Brandon Jenkins. I'm a big fan of Courtney Upshaw up top but I don't know if the Dolphins would take him up there. Another option would (unfortunately) be Riley Reiff to play Right Tackle. Yes I would just about throw myself out a window if they did that too, but that's an option they will consider.

Regardless I don't think it will come to that. They're going to take the best quarterback they can get their hands on.

armyphin
12-22-2011, 05:32 PM
But either way Steve Ross is not accepting watered down options at that position this off season, IMO.
With Barkley out and possibly RGIII out too, that is what the remaining QB's are, watered down options who are bumped up in the draft due to circumstances.


Regardless I don't think it will come to that. They're going to take the best quarterback they can get their hands on.
But will that guy be any better than who the Dolphins already have?

nyashfan
12-22-2011, 05:37 PM
The positive news out of Barkley's announcement is that the Dolphins won't be tempted into entering a bidding war to jump the Browns, Jags, and possibly the Redskins in order to obtain the Rams' pick. They can go BPA and see whether a QB like Tannehill is still available entering round 2.

AZStryker
12-22-2011, 05:44 PM
Regardless I don't think it will come to that. They're going to take the best quarterback they can get their hands on.

Honest question, no sarcasm. Is there really any QB that could take over the starting QB job from Moore next year??? Or will we be reaching yet again?

ckparrothead
12-22-2011, 05:52 PM
Honest question, no sarcasm. Is there really any QB that could take over the starting QB job from Moore next year??? Or will we be reaching yet again?

Aside from Andrew Luck there is only one left that could do that and that is Brandon Weeden. Ryan Tannehill would probably not successfully wrest the starting position from Matt Moore's hands unless the deck was stacked against Moore.

Weeden though, if you got he and Moore into camp together, it would be hard to practice day in and day out and end up starting Moore over him. He's just that good.

spiketex
12-22-2011, 05:55 PM
The real dilemma is this: if Barkley, Griffin and Jones all return to school as Tony Pauline is indicating, then it considerably pushes up the draft stock of Brandon Weeden. Can you count on getting him in the 2nd round after this? I don't think so. I really don't.
I think that with fewer QB options, the teams with dire needs will be forced to look at other options. High probability that Weeden now goes first round. And if we conclude that he is the second best after Luck, Washington, Cleveland, Jax? and others might come to the same conclusion, too.

MiamiDolphin618
12-22-2011, 05:59 PM
Aside from Andrew Luck there is only one left that could do that and that is Brandon Weeden. Ryan Tannehill would probably not successfully wrest the starting position from Matt Moore's hands unless the deck was stacked against Moore.

Weeden though, if you got he and Moore into camp together, it would be hard to practice day in and day out and end up starting Moore over him. He's just that good.
I think Weeden and Moore would be a tough battle. Moore already has the teams backing and knows the offense...Weeden has more natural talent though. Honestly...if RG3 does not come out either, I could see a scenario where we walk away with Manning or Luck..whoever the Colts dont keep.

Roman529
12-22-2011, 06:03 PM
The real dilemma is this: if Barkley, Griffin and Jones all return to school as Tony Pauline is indicating, then it considerably pushes up the draft stock of Brandon Weeden. Can you count on getting him in the 2nd round after this? I don't think so. I really don't.

This what I am thinking too CK....we take the BPA in round one...Mo Claiborne, CB from LSU, or DeCastro, G, Stanford. Than we go with a QB in Round 2,,,,Brandon Weeden or Ryan Tannehill, QB Texas A&M. I don't see Devlin, Losman or Henne being on the roster next year, and we need someone backing up Moore.

AZStryker
12-22-2011, 06:14 PM
Aside from Andrew Luck there is only one left that could do that and that is Brandon Weeden. Ryan Tannehill would probably not successfully wrest the starting position from Matt Moore's hands unless the deck was stacked against Moore.

Weeden though, if you got he and Moore into camp together, it would be hard to practice day in and day out and end up starting Moore over him. He's just that good.

I guess now we have to speculate if Ireland thinks Weeden worth our to 10 pick. I have to wonder if his advanced age is a huge factor for Ireland.

armyphin
12-22-2011, 06:22 PM
I guess now we have to speculate if Ireland thinks Weeden worth our to 10 pick.

This right here...


I think Weeden and Moore would be a tough battle.

Tells me no, he's not.

Why use a pick on a slight improvement when you can upgrade another position significantly and really improve the team.

ckparrothead
12-22-2011, 06:27 PM
I guess now we have to speculate if Ireland thinks Weeden worth our to 10 pick. I have to wonder if his advanced age is a huge factor for Ireland.

I'm sure it will be a factor for Jeff Ireland, as well as Steve Ross. It will take a man with vision to select Brandon Weeden. I don't believe Jeff Ireland has that.

Roman529
12-22-2011, 06:29 PM
I'm sure it will be a factor for Jeff Ireland, as well as Steve Ross. It will take a man with vision to select Brandon Weeden. I don't believe Jeff Ireland has that.

Hey CK, would you take three years of an Old QB like Peyton Manning, if he can pass a physical????

ckparrothead
12-22-2011, 06:31 PM
Hey CK, would you take three years of an Old QB like Peyton Manning, if he can pass a physical????

I don't think you count on getting more than one year out of Peyton to be honest. If he's a free agent, and his neck is getting some good reviews by doctors, I'm interested.

chrispepper
12-22-2011, 06:43 PM
I would happily take brandon weeden at this point.. People seem to get put off by his age, and I think this will happen with Ireland as well but if you look at it in this way... It's just like drafting that "sure-thing" at running back... You can evaluate him and see his skill set worthy of a top 10 pick, but then you debate whether it's worth drafting a guy that has a shelf life of 7-10 years.. I think the only difference in the comparison is that another reason running backs dont go in the 1st round anymore is because of the success people have had in the later rounds.. which is not the case with QB's.

If we could somehow get our hands on Blackmon and weeden, that would be the dream scenario, if not... trade down, get some depth on defence, and take weeden at the top of round 2.

hooshoops
12-22-2011, 06:53 PM
I'm sure it will be a factor for Jeff Ireland, as well as Steve Ross. It will take a man with vision to select Brandon Weeden. I don't believe Jeff Ireland has that.

ha ha...it will either be a man with vision or a man who will put his head on the chopping block to take weedin in the top 10...

hooshoops
12-22-2011, 06:57 PM
I don't think you count on getting more than one year out of Peyton to be honest. If he's a free agent, and his neck is getting some good reviews by doctors, I'm interested.

well if thats the case we shouldn't be interested...it would make for an interesting year but every time peyton got blindsided by colombos man we'd all be on pins and needles...i need something that i can get more than 1 year out of...especially if i got to trade for it a price that peyton would likely still command

Keeno1
12-22-2011, 07:04 PM
well if thats the case we shouldn't be interested...it would make for an interesting year but every time peyton got blindsided by colombos man we'd all be on pins and needles...i need something that i can get more than 1 year out of...especially if i got to trade for it a price that peyton would likely still command

Serious question: if people are willing to take a year or two with Manning, why is age such a knock on Weeden? I am fully aware that the quality of play has the potential to be much higher, but Manning is 36. After this injury, there is almost more risk in taking him over Weeden, right?

phinsheat
12-22-2011, 07:05 PM
Trade back and get a first next year, Draft ryan lindley in third and go hard after next year Qb class if doesn't show you promise.

TedSlimmJr
12-22-2011, 07:29 PM
I think it's completely irrational to take Ryan Tannehill at #7, especially if Courtney Upshaw, David DeCastro, and Trent Richardson are still on the board. You're passing up ELITE talent at positions that can help you in order to reach for a QB who's not any better than Brandon Weeden, Ryan Lindley, or Nick Foles. You can't even spin your way out of that one if you're Jeff Ireland, it's undeniable.

I'd rather take Weeden, Lindley, or Foles in the 2nd/3rd round as opposed to Tannehill at #7. Not to mention getting an elite, blue chip, franchise caliber player at another position in the top 10.

Hell, I'd take Melvin Ingram at #7 before I take Tannehill at #7, and I like Tannehill.

Jeff Ireland needs to be shot if he'd take Tannehill in the top 10, but wouldn't take Ryan Mallett in the 3rd round. He needs to be strung up by his toes and skinned alive if he'd trade up for Daniel Thomas, but pass up Trent Richardson. It's complete idiocy.

Keeno1
12-22-2011, 07:38 PM
If they trade back and take Weeden, what are the odds they can pick up another 2nd and grab Wright and Fleener? Will Wright make it out of the 1st? I like that guy a lot.

ck and hoops: where do you see Bruce Irvin of WVU going? 3rd, 4th?

hooshoops
12-22-2011, 08:23 PM
Serious question: if people are willing to take a year or two with Manning, why is age such a knock on Weeden? I am fully aware that the quality of play has the potential to be much higher, but Manning is 36. After this injury, there is almost more risk in taking him over Weeden, right?

we're talkin about peyton manning...healthy one of the top 3 qbs in football...period...we instantly become a contender if peytons under center...instantly

i mean its freakin peyton manning...if he got a clean bill of health hell yeah i'd be down with taking a chance on him...heck thinking about it more even for a year it would be nice to have that kind of caliber qb...we could also draft a developmental guy and in the event he does stay healthy you still got freakin peyton manning for 2 more years if you want to... but do you if you have to trade a top 10 pick for him??? i don't know...the way things are lookin for us at the position maybe you just do

hooshoops
12-22-2011, 08:57 PM
If they trade back and take Weeden, what are the odds they can pick up another 2nd and grab Wright and Fleener? Will Wright make it out of the 1st? I like that guy a lot.

ck and hoops: where do you see Bruce Irvin of WVU going? 3rd, 4th?

you might want to get slimms take on bruce irvin also...i know he likes him pretty good...but mine goes like this...bruce irvin has the explosive burst and intial get off that you look for in a situational edge rusher or high end edge rusher period...its very evident on tape...this kid gets off the ball in a hurry and explodes into the backfield...great first step...which is something i at least look for when evaluating pass rushers...i want explosive get off and burst from a still position and he's got it...the negatives for me at least are he looks to me a little light in the pants lacks strength and size and imo has trouble getting off blocks when engaged...he gets ridden out of plays/washed out too much imo

i don't think he's an every down player as an olb for instance or a de for that matter just not enough lead in the pencil but i do think he could make a nice situational pass rusher on obvious pass downs and a guy who you could probably line up in those eagles wide 9 looks where the ends line up much wider than usual and explode off the ball into the backfield and maybe have some success that way...he's got high end tools i'd say they're just raw and he needs to get stronger...

draft value i'd say given what i view him as would be early 3rd round...but don't be surprised if he tests really damn well

i view him as a potential similar pro to antwan barnes...and i'd take that any day

Keeno1
12-22-2011, 09:49 PM
you might want to get slimms take on bruce irvin also...i know he likes him pretty good...but mine goes like this...bruce irvin has the explosive burst and intial get off that you look for in a situational edge rusher or high end edge rusher period...its very evident on tape...this kid gets off the ball in a hurry and explodes into the backfield...great first step...which is something i at least look for when evaluating pass rushers...i want explosive get off and burst from a still position and he's got it...the negatives for me at least are he looks to me a little light in the pants lacks strength and size and imo has trouble getting off blocks when engaged...he gets ridden out of plays/washed out too much imo

i don't think he's an every down player as an olb for instance or a de for that matter just not enough lead in the pencil but i do think he could make a nice situational pass rusher on obvious pass downs and a guy who you could probably line up in those eagles wide 9 looks where the ends line up much wider than usual and explode off the ball into the backfield and maybe have some success that way...he's got high end tools i'd say they're just raw and he needs to get stronger...

draft value i'd say given what i view him as would be early 3rd round...but don't be surprised if he tests really damn well

i view him as a potential similar pro to antwan barnes...and i'd take that any day

Cool. Thanks. A good friend of mine (who incidentally is Phins fan) went to WVU and watches games religiously. I have seen a few games with him and Irvin caught my eye. I am not a draftnik at all, so I have no idea about explosive first steps. He just looked like a handful in the games I have seen. Most of what I saw was last year though, so I thought I would ask about his draft stock this next year.

Keeno1
12-22-2011, 10:00 PM
we're talkin about peyton manning...healthy one of the top 3 qbs in football...period...we instantly become a contender if peytons under center...instantly

i mean its freakin peyton manning...if he got a clean bill of health hell yeah i'd be down with taking a chance on him...heck thinking about it more even for a year it would be nice to have that kind of caliber qb...we could also draft a developmental guy and in the event he does stay healthy you still got freakin peyton manning for 2 more years if you want to... but do you if you have to trade a top 10 pick for him??? i don't know...the way things are lookin for us at the position maybe you just do

I know. I know. I am just having a tough time with the age and injury issue. I just don't know if I can give the Colts a top-round pick knowing they are getting Luck too. Makes me want to puke, even if it is Manning.

DudeleBroski
12-22-2011, 10:17 PM
Well you know how I keep saying this draft process is not favorable to a junior Matt Barkley, right?It's the opposite for Brandon Weeden.His two weaknesses are age and system. The system shows during the Oklahoma State games. Well, he'll soon be going about 4 months without playing another Oklahoma State game. He's not going to walk through the Combine and his Pro Day with a tattoo on his forehead that says "Air Raid". The age shows...pretty much only when you look at his birth certificate. When he walks into an interview room he's not going to be holding a cane and yelling at kids to get off his lawn.But his strengths? His strengths are the fact that he can leave smoke trails on the football, his play during football games, his leadership in a practice and field setting and great size.He's going to have the opportunity to showcase a lot of those strengths. I think when he gets off the bus he WILL look like a pretty impressive, big guy...almost like a Roethlisberger. Very solid. When he gets in the interview room he won't impress with Robert Griffin's thoughtfulness but he WILL impress with his maturity and the fact that it'll become quickly obvious to anyone that talks to the man that he's a total sports nut that would be watching any and every sport every day if he wasn't playing. He'll jive with people that way. When he gets to the Senior Bowl he's going to leave smoke trails on the ball AND impress with that maturity and leadership. I think anyone observing closely will find that the offense and even the other quarterbacks naturally respond to him as their leader. He kind of has a little bit of an unfair advantage that way, I'll admit. But I've certainly seen plenty of 28 years olds that don't necessarily exude that leadership or that command of the room.When he gets to the Combine, first off I think he'll throw there and of course everyone will be impressed with the quality of his throws next to other guys. I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised with his medical file which is not as bad as some have led the public to believe. He recently reached out to me privately to set the story straight on his shoulder and what exactly happened there and it's not nearly as bad as people have claimed. I think the scouts are also going to be pleasantly surprised when they get him in tights and put him on a track and start timing and measuring him, as he's a much better athlete than given credit for.When he gets to his Pro Day of course he will again leave smoke trails on the ball.And all the while one thing that I think is going to be a running story, especially during Senior Bowl practices, is how naturally he adapts to dropback mechanics and rhythm. People can disagree...that's ok, it's just a prediction. But this guy is football's version of Roy Hobbs. He's so damn natural in everything he does, and I insist that based on the stuff I've seen from having watched nearly every snap he's played, that his feet are quicker than people give him credit for, he's a better athlete. I think he takes to dropback rhythm like a fish in water.This is going to be a very GOOD process for Weeden. He will have plenty of opportunities to showcase his strengths, and will have opportunities to soothe fears as well. He will not be asked to do anything that rubs his weaknesses in the scouts' noses. This process just FITS his unique profile as a prospect. That's why it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up going in the 1st round. He also looks like big Ben. The look on his face when the kicker missed the field goal against Iowa state, dude looks just like Ben

hooshoops
12-22-2011, 10:39 PM
I know. I know. I am just having a tough time with the age and injury issue. I just don't know if I can give the Colts a top-round pick knowing they are getting Luck too. Makes me want to puke, even if it is Manning.

listening to the game coverage tonight...doesn't sound like peyton manning is going anywhere

Kistner10
12-22-2011, 11:50 PM
Yeah Irsay just made it pretty clear that Manning isn't going anywhere. The way the Colts are playing I wouldn't be surprised if they won next week at Jacksonville at all. They might play themselves out of the number 1 pick.

I DO NOT want to take Tannehill at 7. That is a HUGE reach. I wouldn't mind trading back and taking him, but taking him that high is just asking for another 4 year playoff drought. You don't reach for a QB just to take one. If he wasn't considered an upper echelon QB before these players decided to go back to school, then you shouldn't act like he is one now.

DevilInPgh
12-23-2011, 03:01 AM
You still don't draft him in the first. Let another team take that chance.

No QB available, grab the best player available that will make an immediate impact and improvement to the team. It's not rocket science.

Honestly, the Dolphins shouldn't even think about a QB this draft. The options available aren't upgrades to who's on the team now. Stick with Moore and Devlin, resigning Henne is an option (some here will hate) and focus on rebuilding other team needs.

Damn straight I'll hate it. I don't want that cancer anywhere near South Florida. Henne's proven to be a cancer as a starter, so the only thing we need now is for him to be a pouty cancer as a backup/3rd string. Cut his ***.

BARF
12-23-2011, 04:11 AM
we do next year what the colts did this year, TANK

Hayden Fox
12-23-2011, 06:31 AM
Matt Moore would destroy Weeden in training camp...nothing would be close. Weeden is not going to immediately transition to the NFL and be legit. Very few rookies are...

Hayden Fox
12-23-2011, 06:36 AM
What is also sad is Fin Fans hate taking linemen so much with their picks, there could be incredible value with one of the OT's in this draft. The draft is not deep at OT. Columbo has been responsible for many turnovers this year. YET, people would be angry and pissed by drafting the position.

I like the idea of CB that could replace Smith or Vonte in a year.
Maybe a passrusher...depending on if we still are 3-4 or switch to the 4-3.
A playmaker at WR's cannot hurt either.

However, do these supersede the RT position? I don't think so.

I am concerned that Fin Fans and worst of all Stephen Ross have preconceived notions of what "needs" to be drafted as opposed to what could really help the team.

Valandui
12-23-2011, 06:43 AM
I know. I know. I am just having a tough time with the age and injury issue. I just don't know if I can give the Colts a top-round pick knowing they are getting Luck too. Makes me want to puke, even if it is Manning.
I don't think they can trade him. If I remember correctly, the only way they aren't on the hook for his money is if they cut him. I think they still have to pay him if they trade him.

Valandui
12-23-2011, 06:45 AM
Matt Moore would destroy Weeden in training camp...nothing would be close. Weeden is not going to immediately transition to the NFL and be legit. Very few rookies are...
He is a way better prospect than Andy Dalton in every category other than age and we see how Dalton is doing. Weeden could start right away.

Hayden Fox
12-23-2011, 07:13 AM
He is a way better prospect than Andy Dalton in every category other than age and we see how Dalton is doing. Weeden could start right away.


I just disagree on the entire Weeden thing. We do not need to rehash this until before the draft.

Barkley staying along with potentially RGIII and Jones does help Weeden. I will admit to that.

However, back to Moore, it is crazy talk to think that someone that has seen the bullets fly for a couple years would not be more suited to win a competition versus a systems QB in the NFL for the first time...albeit that Weeden is longer in the tooth than Moore.

Matt Moore has been solid for these Fins. I know they will not win anything big with him, but the guy has been effective. Nice touch, knows the offense and is smart with the ball. That can win you games...Outside his first Jets start and the Philly game he was bounced out of, he has won or been close in every game. Admit he has done a nice job.

Valandui
12-23-2011, 07:22 AM
I just disagree on the entire Weeden thing. We do not need to rehash this until before the draft.

Barkley staying along with potentially RGIII and Jones does help Weeden. I will admit to that.

However, back to Moore, it is crazy talk to think that someone that has seen the bullets fly for a couple years would not be more suited to win a competition versus a systems QB in the NFL for the first time...albeit that Weeden is longer in the tooth than Moore.

Matt Moore has been solid for these Fins. I know they will not win anything big with him, but the guy has been effective. Nice touch, knows the offense and is smart with the ball. That can win you games...Outside his first Jets start and the Philly game he was bounced out of, he has won or been close in every game. Admit he has done a nice job.
I'm not content with someone who is consistent but can't win you anything big. That keeps you just good enough to not have a high draft pick and just bad enough to not make the playoffs or get eliminated in the first round occasionally. There is a word for that, and it's mediocrity.

Hayden Fox
12-23-2011, 09:28 AM
I'm not content with someone who is consistent but can't win you anything big. That keeps you just good enough to not have a high draft pick and just bad enough to not make the playoffs or get eliminated in the first round occasionally. There is a word for that, and it's mediocrity.

I look at what you described as an opportunity to be in the hunt for something...giving yourself a chance. I like that.

Valandui
12-23-2011, 09:36 AM
I look at what you described as an opportunity to be in the hunt for something...giving yourself a chance. I like that.
I'd much rather be in contention every year than to have to hope for miracles to get the opprotunity to be eleminated in the first round of the playoffs once or twice in a ten year period.

ticophin
12-23-2011, 10:11 AM
All in 4 Luck...everything else can be fixed or tweaked eventually...not our QB situation, and I truly think Moore is a pleasant surprise, but Luck is there, and SLouis might go #1...this is the year!!!

Generic Name
12-23-2011, 12:16 PM
What is also sad is Fin Fans hate taking linemen so much with their picks, there could be incredible value with one of the OT's in this draft. The draft is not deep at OT. Columbo has been responsible for many turnovers this year. YET, people would be angry and pissed by drafting the position.

I like the idea of CB that could replace Smith or Vonte in a year.
Maybe a passrusher...depending on if we still are 3-4 or switch to the 4-3.
A playmaker at WR's cannot hurt either.

However, do these supersede the RT position? I don't think so.

I am concerned that Fin Fans and worst of all Stephen Ross have preconceived notions of what "needs" to be drafted as opposed to what could really help the team.

What is sad is the guys in here who want to take OL in first round every damn year no matter who is available or what our real roster needs are. Is this a team full of playmakers? can we really afford to take a RT with a top ten pick. I will tell you that once again, you're wrong here. 100% dead wrong. There is NO value in taking a RT in the top 10 of this or any other draft with the roster we have.

Not incredible value, tremendous value, good value, a little value or a speck of value. NO Value.

Does this team need a full line of first round picks to be good? No, yet some of you insist on taking a position that has less value than a good free safety and far less value than a pass rusher or receiver. When you talk about incredible value you have to measure that against players who could have been taken and the sacks or receiving TD's they could have scored for Miami. Isn't that more valuable than upgrading a spot that just needs to be manned by a younger more athletic guy than Marc Columbo, a guy we could find at much cheaper price than a top 10 pick?


Columbo gets upgraded in the offseason by the new coach either by Carey, Jerry or a free agent not with a top 10 pick. We just fired a coach who got all the O-line draft picks, free agent money and Marc Columbos he wanted yet still failed.

I think we can do better. Taking a RT or G that high this year would be dumb.