PDA

View Full Version : Luck vs. Weeden in the Fiesta Bowl



Pages : [1] 2

Hayden Fox
01-02-2012, 06:02 PM
Two QB's we have talked about a ton this year. Now we get to see them on display.

I have been very hard on Weeden this year. HOWEVER, unlike some, I have very open mind...especially with Barkley going back to school. I expect him to light up Stanford's secondary in what should be a very motivated OSU team.

Let the talk commence...

COULD...Luck be available with the Polian's being jettisoned today? Who knows? Still worth a watch.

Zounds
01-02-2012, 06:49 PM
COULD...Luck be available with the Polian's being jettisoned today? Who knows? Still worth a watch.

It was Irsay, the Colts owner, that publicly stated they would take Luck. I don't think Polian's firing changes anything.

mrbunglez
01-02-2012, 07:07 PM
Irsay never said he was taking Luck he said Manning isn't going anywhere and they would be inclined to take A QB. He also said he would take RG3.

Hayden Fox
01-02-2012, 08:04 PM
Jim Irsay could really **** things up if he gets involved.

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 09:48 PM
here we go...stanford with 3 weeks to prepare for anyone is gonna be a tough out...i wouldn't bet on this game if it was your money...

jonanthans
01-02-2012, 09:58 PM
Weeden will throw 3 picks

MiZFiT
01-02-2012, 09:58 PM
Terrible throw by the old man.

Roman529
01-02-2012, 09:59 PM
COULD...Luck be available with the Polian's being jettisoned today? Who knows? Still worth a watch.

I am thinking the Polians probably didn't want to draft Luck and also keep P. Manning, so Irsay said, "Don't let the door hit you on the way out....you're fired."

Nice pick Weeden....there goes his draft status. :chuckle:

jonanthans
01-02-2012, 10:00 PM
DAMN that was quick!

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 10:01 PM
weeden staring down his target allowed that db to get the depth to flow underneath the throw...

mrbunglez
01-02-2012, 10:02 PM
I think Luck having a running back like Taylor helps him.

Kistner10
01-02-2012, 10:03 PM
Weeden also didn't put enough touch on that INT, you can't underthrow a sideline throw like that.

Not a fan of Weeden. I definately don't see what everyone else sees about the guy.

jonanthans
01-02-2012, 10:04 PM
LSU would destroy either of these teams

KingDolphin57
01-02-2012, 10:05 PM
First pass?Rg3 all the way.

MiZFiT
01-02-2012, 10:05 PM
I think Luck having a running back like Taylor helps him.

Having Blackmon is a much bigger help to Weeden than Taylor is to Luck.

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 10:07 PM
Weeden also didn't put enough touch on that INT, you can't underthrow a sideline throw like that.

Not a fan of Weeden. I definately don't see what everyone else sees about the guy.

a little too much on a line...i don't think he ever expected that db to be able to drop there...then again he may never have saw the db in the first place that was underneath...either way that ones on the qb...all the way

sinPHIN
01-02-2012, 10:09 PM
weeden is so overrated on these boards

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 10:10 PM
i bet the moneys on the over and i bet that suckers a big number and wouldn't you just know it looks like its gonna be a low scoring affair so far...vegas...they'll get your ***

Kistner10
01-02-2012, 10:11 PM
weeden is so overrated on these boards

Agree.

I'm shocked to see how many people on this board would take Weeden in the first round. Some would gladly even spend a top 10 pick on him.

Kistner10
01-02-2012, 10:14 PM
i bet the moneys on the over and i bet that suckers a big number and wouldn't you just know it looks like its gonna be a low scoring affair so far...vegas...they'll get your ***

Yeah the over/under was set at 74. Still early, feels like the beginning rounds of a boxing match. Both teams playing tentatively early on offense.

MiZFiT
01-02-2012, 10:15 PM
Agree.

I'm shocked to see how many people on this board would take Weeden in the first round. Some would gladly even spend a top 10 pick on him.

:idk:

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 10:16 PM
Yeah the over/under was set at 74. Still early, feels like the beginning rounds of a boxing match. Both teams playing tentatively early on offense.

true...and luck bangs em off play action...

Roman529
01-02-2012, 10:17 PM
Nice throw by Luck....he just reminds me of that Geico caveman everytime I see that beard of his. :lol:

datruth55
01-02-2012, 10:18 PM
Irsay never said he was taking Luck he said Manning isn't going anywhere and they would be inclined to take A QB. He also said he would take RG3.
I think Irsay said that any time you have an opportunity to draft a QB like Luke and have him sit and learn behind Peyton you have to take a look at that. And then he referenced what Green Bay did with Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre.

datruth55
01-02-2012, 10:21 PM
Weeden pats the ball before he throws every time.

Canadianfishfan
01-02-2012, 10:24 PM
Weeden has been a disappointment so far.

ChambersWI
01-02-2012, 10:25 PM
Agree.

I'm shocked to see how many people on this board would take Weeden in the first round. Some would gladly even spend a top 10 pick on him.

I hate to say it cause I love CK and respect the work he puts into his draft stuff, but if he likes somebody a lot of people on the board take his opinion on a player as the absolute fact.

Weeden isn't bad, but his age and system (as well as lack of defenses in Big 12) inflate his stats a lot

datruth55
01-02-2012, 10:27 PM
Stanford defense is very disciplined. Textbook tackling by them.

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 10:28 PM
well...well...luck serves one up on the roll out

Kistner10
01-02-2012, 10:29 PM
I hate to say it cause I love CK and respect the work he puts into his draft stuff, but if he likes somebody a lot of people on the board take his opinion on a player as the absolute fact.

Weeden isn't bad, but his age and system (as well as lack of defenses in Big 12) inflate his stats a lot

CK is awesome and I definately respect the work he puts into his analysis, but I just don't agree with him on Weeden. I do think you're right about everyone jumping on players he likes.

Weeden has looked bad against every solid defense he has faced. He is also physically mature going against 19 to 21 year old kids who are still improving physically. Also the fact that he is in a pure spread system hurts him in my eyes as well. It might be different if he was younger, but working on simple 3,5,7 step drops with a 29 year old rookie is not something I want the Dolphins to do next year.

Roman529
01-02-2012, 10:30 PM
Luck picked off.

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/01/aczl1e-1.jpg

datruth55
01-02-2012, 10:30 PM
well...well...luck serves one up on the roll out

It was a good looking pass. I think Luck throws extremely well on the run, squares up his shoulders and gets good torque on the throw. That was a heck of a play by the defender though to undercut it. I think Luck underestimated his speed and I don't think Fleener even knew he was there until he was infront of him.

datruth55
01-02-2012, 10:32 PM
CK is awesome and I definately respect the work he puts into his analysis, but I just don't agree with him on Weeden. I do think you're right about everyone jumping on players he likes.

Weeden has looked bad against every solid defense he has faced. He is also physically mature going against 19 to 21 year old kids who are still improving physically. Also the fact that he is in a pure spread system hurts him in my eyes as well. It might be different if he was younger, but working on simple 3,5,7 step drops with a 29 year old rookie is not something I want the Dolphins to do next year.

That's one of my biggest issues with Weeden. He's physically at his prime right now, he can grow mentally but as far as physically there's very little room to grow if any. That bothers me.

Show Me Your TDs
01-02-2012, 10:34 PM
That's one of my biggest issues with Weeden. He's physically at his prime right now, he can grow mentally but as far as physically there's very little room to grow if any. That bothers me.

Exactly. I just don't understand the love for him. Mid round pick at best.

datruth55
01-02-2012, 10:34 PM
For the PAC-12 being such a finesse conference Stanford is a pretty physical team.

datruth55
01-02-2012, 10:41 PM
oh oh...14-0...better stop that run okla st or your gonna face the entire playbook and get owned on pa
Luck will chew this team up with play action if they don't get the run stopped. Bill Young is an overrated DC IMO. He coached the Canes for a year and he was crap.

insom187
01-02-2012, 10:41 PM
Blackmon is said to be fighting an infection on his inner thigh and hasn't been right all week. I haven't been the biggest fan of Weedon but he is now at a serious disadvantage and that needs to be recognized. Its like Matt Moore without Brandon Marshall.

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 10:41 PM
better stop that run okl st or your gonna face the entire playbook and get owned off pa

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 10:45 PM
2 nice throws from weeden there...especially the one he dropped in the bucket over the lbs and in front of the safety

insom187
01-02-2012, 10:46 PM
Justin Blackmon is the most dominate player in the game, he's who I want to trade up and get more than anyone.

datruth55
01-02-2012, 10:46 PM
Blackmon is said to be fighting an infection on his inner thigh and hasn't been right all week. I haven't been the biggest fan of Weedon but he is now at a serious disadvantage and that needs to be recognized. Its like Matt Moore without Brandon Marshall.
Matt Moore with Brandon Marshall only sucks half as bad as Matt Moore with Brandon Marshall...but either way Matt Moore sucks.

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 10:47 PM
Justin Blackmon is the most dominate player in the game, he's who I want to trade up and get more than anyone.

not trying to argue with you but whats dominant about running the guy down the seam unimpeded and untouched for a walk in td...

Kistner10
01-02-2012, 10:47 PM
Blackmon would be nice. Our WR corp would be dangerous with him, Marshall, Bess, and Hartline.

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 10:53 PM
what game is that damn official looking right at the play and this commentator watching??? the okla st db pulled the hook on the wr and thus he didn't get to the ball...thats a freakin foul...hooked him with his outside arm turning him away from the ball

insom187
01-02-2012, 10:53 PM
Not because of that play in particular but he is just a physically dominant receiver with great hands, more than enough speed and top flight character on and off the field. Hes been doing it his whole career despite constant attention and in this game hes making an impact while not at 100%. Is it absurd to say he is in Megatron's level of ability (seriously, I didn't follow him much in college but they seem similar)?

Kistner10
01-02-2012, 10:55 PM
Wow Blackmon is explosive

datruth55
01-02-2012, 10:55 PM
Blackmon would be nice. Our WR corp would be dangerous with him, Marshall, Bess, and Hartline.
I know most won't agree with me but I wouldn't be opposed to trading Bess. He's got great hands but he has no speed. Hartline needs to moved inside to the slot if we keep him. He can't win jump balls on the perimeter and IMO a boundary WR needs to come down with those jump balls more often than not and Hartline loses those 90% of the time.

Dang Blackman is a strong dude.

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 10:56 PM
yes its absurd to say he's the physical specimen megatron is or was when he came out...but he just made a dominant play

datruth55
01-02-2012, 10:56 PM
what game is that damn official looking right at the play and this commentator watching??? the okla st db pulled the hook on the wr and thus he didn't get to the ball...thats a freakin foul...hooked him with his outside arm turning him away from the ball
I saw that too. I thought it should have been called.

PJack
01-02-2012, 10:57 PM
Most definitely going to have to trade up if we want to get Blackmon!!!

Kistner10
01-02-2012, 10:57 PM
That pass was a little behind him too.

Great strength and speed. Too bad I doubt that he's there when we pick. STL would be crazy not to draft him.

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 10:57 PM
I know most won't agree with me but I wouldn't be opposed to trading Bess. He's got great hands but he has no speed. Hartline needs to moved inside to the slot if we keep him. He can't win jump balls on the perimeter and IMO a boundary WR needs to come down with those jump balls more often than not and Hartline loses those 90% of the time.

Dang Blackman is a strong dude.

you won't get much for a slot wr with no speed and no big play ability...bess is more valuable to us for what we'd get in trade...especially now that his knee is hurt off that way too behind him throw from moore yesterday serving him up for that hit

Kistner10
01-02-2012, 10:58 PM
I know most won't agree with me but I wouldn't be opposed to trading Bess. He's got great hands but he has no speed. Hartline needs to moved inside to the slot if we keep him. He can't win jump balls on the perimeter and IMO a boundary WR needs to come down with those jump balls more often than not and Hartline loses those 90% of the time.

Dang Blackman is a strong dude.

What do you think we could get for him though?? I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of trading him although I see your point. If we got Blackmon and could get decent value for Bess, I wouldn't be opposed to that.

insom187
01-02-2012, 10:58 PM
I hate Matt Millan but he's right, when the beast is hungry you feed him! One on one I would have loved to see Blackmon vs. Claiborne

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 10:58 PM
forget about blackmon at #8-9...forget about it

finsfanjay13
01-02-2012, 10:59 PM
yes its absurd to say he's the physical specimen megatron is or was when he came out...but he just made a dominant play

He *is* a physical specimen. I won't dare compare him to Megatron, but Blackmon is without a doubt an f'ing monster. Optimus Prime, maybe?

MiZFiT
01-02-2012, 11:01 PM
Best throw all night. So far.

insom187
01-02-2012, 11:03 PM
He *is* a physical specimen. I won't dare compare him to Megatron, but Blackmon is without a doubt an f'ing monster. Optimus Prime, maybe?

If not Megatron then Starscream would be next in line if we're going by Deceptivons chain of command haha

datruth55
01-02-2012, 11:03 PM
What do you think we could get for him though?? I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of trading him although I see your point. If we got Blackmon and could get decent value for Bess, I wouldn't be opposed to that.

He was an undrafted free agent. I bet we could trade him for a 5th or 6th rounder. Could use that pick for O-line or D-line. If we could get Blackmon or even Kendall Wright to upgrade the speed and big play ability of the passing game that would be huge to me. I look at Green Bay's WR corp and I get jealous. I would love to build a WR corp like that.

Roman529
01-02-2012, 11:03 PM
Blackmon is a beast, but don't sleep on Alshon Jeffrey of South Carolina who is 6'4" and 220. If we took a WR in the first round, Jeffrey wouldn't be a bad choice.

datruth55
01-02-2012, 11:04 PM
If not Megatron then Starscream would be next in line if we're going by Deceptivons chain of command haha
Starscream is a cowardly punk though. Optimus Prime would work, whoever posted that.

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 11:05 PM
fantastic throw by luck on the pump fake down the sideline...doesn't get any better than that...and kids just damn money in the red zone...he gets there you can count it...and we of all people as dolphins fans should know how important it is your qb score tds when the field constricts

Keeno1
01-02-2012, 11:07 PM
If not Megatron then Starscream would be next in line if we're going by Deceptivons chain of command haha Haha. Thundercracker was always a cool name IMO.

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 11:07 PM
He *is* a physical specimen. I won't dare compare him to Megatron, but Blackmon is without a doubt an f'ing monster. Optimus Prime, maybe?

dude megatron is the specimen by which all nfl wrs should be judged...guys that size shouldn't be able to do the things that kid did at the combine and in this league that fast...and with that kind of body...rediculous

insom187
01-02-2012, 11:07 PM
fantastic throw by luck on the pump fake down the sideline...doesn't get any better than that...and kids just damn money in the red zone...he gets there you can count it...and we of all people as dolphins fans should know how important it is your qb score tds when the field constricts

Agreed!!!

Kistner10
01-02-2012, 11:08 PM
He was an undrafted free agent. I bet we could trade him for a 5th or 6th rounder. Could use that pick for O-line or D-line. If we could get Blackmon or even Kendall Wright to upgrade the speed and big play ability of the passing game that would be huge to me. I look at Green Bay's WR corp and I get jealous. I would love to build a WR corp like that.

I wouldn't trade Bess for a 5th or a 6th. I know he was undrafted but you shouldn't use that as "value" for him. His "value" should be based on his contributions to the team and I don't see a 5th or 6th round guy being able to do that. A 5th or 6th round guy would probably have a hard time making the team next year where as Bess is a lock. If we could get a 3 or maybe early 4 for him than I'd do it. Just don't see any team willing to give that up for him.

I'd also only trade for him if we got Blackmon or some other top flight WR.

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 11:08 PM
Starscream is a cowardly punk though. Optimus Prime would work, whoever posted that.

transformers were the **** when i was a kid...loved em...but you guys are dorks...lmao

datruth55
01-02-2012, 11:09 PM
Weeden starting to settle down. Good feel for the pocket and he's showing more athleticism than I've seen from him escaping the pocket.

Keeno1
01-02-2012, 11:09 PM
dude megatron is the specimen by which all nfl wrs should be judged...guys that size shouldn't be able to do the things that kid did at the combine and in this league that fast...and with that kind of body...rediculous I would always get him mixed up with Pettigrew, their TE. Dude is a beast.

baseballcb95
01-02-2012, 11:09 PM
god no on alshon jeffery's. Blackmon or bust, id trade up for him. I think St. Louis will go Kalil

Kistner10
01-02-2012, 11:12 PM
Weeden has to make that throw. It was open in the corner.

datruth55
01-02-2012, 11:13 PM
transformers were the **** when i was a kid...loved em...but you guys are dorks...lmao
Let go or your inner dork hoops, lol. You know you almost used devastator as your screen name.

insom187
01-02-2012, 11:14 PM
Indy should take Blackmon #1. True beast mode there.

finsfanjay13
01-02-2012, 11:14 PM
dude megatron is the specimen by which all nfl wrs should be judged...guys that size shouldn't be able to do the things that kid did at the combine and in this league that fast...and with that kind of body...rediculous

Of course. My point is that I don't *need* to compare him to Calvin Johnson (and I wouldn't). It's pointless to me. Blackmon stands on his own. He's a beast.

Kistner10
01-02-2012, 11:17 PM
That was one of the most unathletic QB draws I've ever seen lol

PaPhinz
01-02-2012, 11:17 PM
Nice effort by Weeden on that TD run.

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 11:25 PM
Of course. My point is that I don't *need* to compare him to Calvin Johnson (and I wouldn't). It's pointless to me. Blackmon stands on his own. He's a beast.

and you weren't the one asking if it was a stretch to make the comparison...but you're right he's a beast no doubt...its like a man playin against boys out here against stanford...or i guess you could say brandon weeden playing against college kids...whoops did i mention that...ha ha

insom187
01-02-2012, 11:25 PM
At the half I'd say all the top prospects have done there part. Luck and Weedon have both settled, Blackmon is dominant as is Stanford offensive line, especially Martin at left tackle. Really good, entertaing game and I still wish OSU got the chance to play LSU.

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 11:26 PM
That was one of the most unathletic QB draws I've ever seen lol

yeah...and he looked winded on the sideline after...time to up the conditioning ha ha

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 11:27 PM
Weeden has to make that throw. It was open in the corner.


he's got eyes for blackmon a bit too much...but i guess you can't blame him given what a mismatch he is out there

Kistner10
01-02-2012, 11:35 PM
he's got eyes for blackmon a bit too much...but i guess you can't blame him given what a mismatch he is out there

Yeah you've got to get the ball to Blackmon.

Weeden is having a nice game, but still not impressed by him. I am VERY impressed with Blackmon though. I know WR isn't a huge need, but wow this kid is something.

Canadianfishfan
01-02-2012, 11:37 PM
Weeden is actually getting better as the game goes on. It will be interesting if he can maintain it in the second half.

finsfanjay13
01-02-2012, 11:40 PM
and you weren't the one asking if it was a stretch to make the comparison...but you're right he's a beast no doubt...its like a man playin against boys out here against stanford...or i guess you could say brandon weeden playing against college kids...whoops did i mention that...ha ha

Fair enough, my apologies.

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 11:44 PM
Fair enough, my apologies.

no worries

hooshoops
01-02-2012, 11:50 PM
i'm not sure i like weedens feel for pressure...he likes to step sideways and throw with all arm...good thing he's got a big arm

Kistner10
01-02-2012, 11:51 PM
Weeden is actually getting better as the game goes on. It will be interesting if he can maintain it in the second half.

He has settled down a lot, but as a draft prospect this game has only reinforced my opinion on him. His ball placement hasn't been that great and in the NFL that will really hurt him. I also feel like Blackmon is making him look a little better than he is playing.

I think Weeden will be a fine backup in the NFL; I just don't see him making it as a starter in the league though.

insom187
01-02-2012, 11:55 PM
After Beck I want no part of a 28 year old rookies. I know they're different players but that whole experience sucked.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 12:00 AM
i'm not seeing anywhere near the amount of shifting at the los that stanfords o showed va tech last year in the bowl game...jim harbaugh must have took that with him...that stuff blew va tech dc bud fosters mind

Kistner10
01-03-2012, 12:00 AM
After Beck I want no part of a 28 year old rookies. I know they're different players but that whole experience sucked.

I think it's fair to compare to a point.

My problem with it is that they're phsically mature going against 19-21 year old kids. Even the best 19-21 year old kids are still developing while Weeden/Beck/Weinke are physically at their peak. I don't think you get an accurate assessment of their abilities because of this. Remember a lot of people were saying Beck blew them away on tape and thought we were getting a steal.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 12:03 AM
weedens got 1st round physical tools...but that age thing...it matters...matters a lot

insom187
01-03-2012, 12:07 AM
Oak State survived a bad quarter last half. I guess they're hoping for the same magic in the second. Sloppy so far.

Kistner10
01-03-2012, 12:07 AM
weedens got 1st round physical tools...but that age thing...it matters...matters a lot

Correction

Weeden has a first round arm. His accuracy and decision making isn't 1st round matieral in my opinion.

Kistner10
01-03-2012, 12:10 AM
Luck might fall on some draft boards.

His handoff ball placement is below average IMO lol

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 12:12 AM
Correction

Weeden has a first round arm. His accuracy and decision making isn't 1st round matieral in my opinion.

i see what you're sayin to an extent...he misses some throws placement or accuracy wise i definitely think he should make...like this last throw on the run..whys that ball low its an easy 6 points if he just puts it where the guy doesn't have to go to ground

Kistner10
01-03-2012, 12:17 AM
i see what you're sayin to an extent...he misses some throws placement or accuracy wise i definitely think he should make...like this last throw on the run..whys that ball low its an easy 6 points if he just puts it where the guy doesn't have to go to ground

His completion percentage is exteremely high, but his ball placement isn't that great. Even his TD throw to Blackmon on the slant was a little behind him. For a lot of WR's that would either be dropped or it would stop them in their tracks. That last throw was another example. I've seen 3 or 4 throws where you would like to see better ball placement from him. He's got an unbelievably strong arm, but he seems to lack the know how on how to switch it up and put some touch on certain passes to help out his WR's.

TheWarriorFins
01-03-2012, 12:19 AM
We'll see how this game plays out

insom187
01-03-2012, 12:21 AM
Luck just seems so confident in the pocket, at times you just know hes going to make the throw perfect.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 12:29 AM
His completion percentage is exteremely high, but his ball placement isn't that great. Even his TD throw to Blackmon on the slant was a little behind him. For a lot of WR's that would either be dropped or it would stop them in their tracks. That last throw was another example. I've seen 3 or 4 throws where you would like to see better ball placement from him. He's got an unbelievably strong arm, but he seems to lack the know how on how to switch it up and put some touch on certain passes to help out his WR's.

those completion numbers are helped by a lot of screens and stuff behind the los...not tonight but thats very evident if you watched them this season...but same could be said for barkley at usc...a lot of stuff thats at or behind the los

baseballcb95
01-03-2012, 12:32 AM
If we start Luck does coke rumors any chance he falls to pick 8.5?

LUCK DOES COKE

insom187
01-03-2012, 12:38 AM
How can an offense go from zero to touchdown that fast. Seriously, Oregon who?

datruth55
01-03-2012, 12:40 AM
Blackmon won't last till our pick. Dude is blowing up on the big stage right now.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 12:41 AM
stanford is killin me with the way they're defending blackmon...pass him off to a damn safety in the red zone who was out of position from the snap it seems??? really...man him up at the los and roll a safety over him every play...and drop a damn lb into anything on the inside if you have to...that kids killin you

dolfan91
01-03-2012, 12:43 AM
I'm goin GAGA over Blackmon!!! HUGE Man Crush!!! he's absolutely the real deal!!!

datruth55
01-03-2012, 12:45 AM
Luck reminds me so much of Aaron Rodgers...he doesn't throw as pretty of a ball as Rodgers but the athleticism and style of play is very similar.

mrbunglez
01-03-2012, 12:50 AM
And that 3rd and long pass from Luck for a 1st down is the reason he's going #1 overall. That was a thing of beauty.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 12:51 AM
that 3rd and 14 play clock running down play by luck was pure onions...that ball was a dart also delivered on the run pinpoint accurate...how anyone questions this kids arm is beyond me...that ball was beautiful

this games awesome

insom187
01-03-2012, 12:53 AM
What picks do think you'd have to give up for Luck and would you do that? Couple of 1sts, a 3rd, a 4th and a 6th? Seems super steep but damn he looks legit.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 12:55 AM
Luck reminds me so much of Aaron Rodgers...he doesn't throw as pretty of a ball as Rodgers but the athleticism and style of play is very similar.

yeah but he sees the game and thinks the game like peyton manning...he's a step in front of everyone else...what a prospect...

mrbunglez
01-03-2012, 12:55 AM
Don't care what anyone says I'd trade 3-4 1st round picks for the kid.

datruth55
01-03-2012, 12:56 AM
Running right, running left...doesn't matter. Luck can throw on the run. He can throw darts, he can throw touch passes and all of this on the run and in the perfect spot. He's going to be hard to defend in a few years after Manning retires. The team around him is going to suck though....that's our only saving grace.

phinfan33
01-03-2012, 12:56 AM
that 3rd and 14 play clock running down play by luck was pure onions...that ball was a dart also delivered on the run pinpoint accurate...how anyone questions this kids arm is beyond me...that ball was beautiful

this games awesomeThe way this game's going,i think it's gonna come down to who has the ball last as to who wins.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 12:58 AM
What picks do think you'd have to give up for Luck and would you do that? Couple of 1sts, a 3rd, a 4th and a 6th? Seems super steep but damn he looks legit.

up the anty...from #9 to #1 for this kid as highly rated as he is 3 #1's and a player...and i mean a legit player...not some philip merling bs...a vontae davis a cam wake a jake long a brandon marshall type player

but hey we got our 6 damn wins...well worth it...my ***

TheWarriorFins
01-03-2012, 12:58 AM
Lets see what Weeden got

baseballcb95
01-03-2012, 01:00 AM
What picks do think you'd have to give up for Luck and would you do that? Couple of 1sts, a 3rd, a 4th and a 6th? Seems super steep but damn he looks legit.

IDK what it would take... but the highest i would go is:

2 firsts, jake long, and 2 second's..

If you think about it, jake long is would go top 5 in this draft. a top 5 pick is worth 2 first rounders any year. Thats basically 4 first rounders and 2 seconds, with one of the firsts being a top 10 pick.


Would put us in a little hole for 2 years but thatd be fine, we could build through free agency for a little while luck developed into a top 5 qb

baseballcb95
01-03-2012, 01:01 AM
Thats it, trade up for Luck or Blackmon, both are absolute STUDS.

TheWarriorFins
01-03-2012, 01:01 AM
Holy **** nice, and Blackmon is a beast

datruth55
01-03-2012, 01:02 AM
I'd throw 4 #1's at the Colts and see if they bite. Luck on this team right now would win 10 or 11 games even with him as a rookie.

If they don't bite on 4 #1's then I'd throw 3 #1's, Sean Smith and Reggie Bush or Brandon Marshall.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:02 AM
ball back to andrew luck 2 minutes left tied...beautiful...

datruth55
01-03-2012, 01:03 AM
Weeden just led one heck of a drive to tie this game up.

insom187
01-03-2012, 01:03 AM
There goes that over under score. Weedon looked good, as did Optimus Prime!!

ANUFan
01-03-2012, 01:03 AM
Geez ive never watch blackmon play..Holy wow!

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:04 AM
**** me...colts get this kid for blowin

ANUFan
01-03-2012, 01:04 AM
**** me...colts get this kid for blowin

Correction tankin...

mrbunglez
01-03-2012, 01:04 AM
If Luck wins this game in the last 2 mins I'd trade all my draft picks for the next 3 yrs and throw in one of our stud players just for good measure.

datruth55
01-03-2012, 01:07 AM
Correction tankin...
Might be why Caldwell is still employed. He was told to lose that last game and if they were to let him go he'd probably let everyone know he was told to tank that last game.

Chavez Ravine
01-03-2012, 01:07 AM
It's a QB league, I'd give the Colts anything they wanted. This years 1-4, next years 1-4, Wake & Long.

10 for 1 and I'd do it in a heartbeat

TheWarriorFins
01-03-2012, 01:08 AM
No i wanted ot!

insom187
01-03-2012, 01:08 AM
Geez ive never watch blackmon play..Holy wow!

Statistically hes having a down year from last year. The most dominant player in his position in all the FBS.

datruth55
01-03-2012, 01:08 AM
Game, set, match. Luck was about to get sacked and he makes a heck of a throw there. RGIII would have been trying to escape the pocket and wasting time and probably would have been sacked anyway.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:08 AM
what a play...what field damn vision...if the colts trade that pick they're crazy

insom187
01-03-2012, 01:10 AM
Andrew, just throw a TD and walk out of the stadium. Go out like a baller lol.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:11 AM
yeah...hoops is a fool for wanting to suck for luck...karma my ***...look what we're missing...

ANUFan
01-03-2012, 01:11 AM
what a play...what field damn vision...if the colts trade that pick they're crazy

It hurts to know the Colts are getting a player of Lucks caliber ....they've been tremendous for years and their 1 down year they are in position to get someone like Luck. Where our dolphins have sucked for years and never have been blessed like this. Unreal!

insom187
01-03-2012, 01:12 AM
Where's my Buffalo Wild Wings button. This game cant end!!

mrbunglez
01-03-2012, 01:12 AM
Watch him miss the FG.....

datruth55
01-03-2012, 01:13 AM
It hurts to know the Colts are getting a player of Lucks caliber ....they've been tremendous for years and their 1 down year they are in position to get someone like Luck. Where our dolphins have sucked for years and never have been blessed like this. Unreal!
We had our shot...2005 when we took Ronnie Brown instead of Aaron Rodgers.

insom187
01-03-2012, 01:13 AM
It hurts to know the Colts are getting a player of Lucks caliber ....they've been tremendous for years and their 1 down year they are in position to get someone like Luck. Where our dolphins have sucked for years and never have been blessed like this. Unreal!

Amen

insom187
01-03-2012, 01:14 AM
Yes!!!! It goes on!!

TheWarriorFins
01-03-2012, 01:15 AM
No i wanted ot!


lOLOLOLOLOL AND GOD GIVES IT TO MEE WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTT

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:15 AM
hot damn ot...but fellas that picks not getting traded...luck sealed that sucker tonight already...but here we go...god i love this game

mrbunglez
01-03-2012, 01:15 AM
We're going to OT fellas!

Chavez Ravine
01-03-2012, 01:15 AM
We had our shot...2005 when we took Ronnie Brown instead of Aaron Rodgers.

& When we signed Culpepper

datruth55
01-03-2012, 01:15 AM
This could go on forever with these two QBs.

daniel3
01-03-2012, 01:15 AM
It hurts to know the Colts are getting a player of Lucks caliber ....they've been tremendous for years and their 1 down year they are in position to get someone like Luck. Where our dolphins have sucked for years and never have been blessed like this. Unreal!

Well we did have a chance to draft Matt Ryan ;/.

Edit: Also as noted above, we did pass up Rodgers too :) and could have signed Drew Brees. We had our chances, we're just dumb.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:17 AM
hey insom i like your style...

datruth55
01-03-2012, 01:17 AM
& When we signed Culpepper
That was 2006...but we did pass on Drew Brees again....and people wonder why this team hasn't done crap since Marino retired.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:18 AM
It hurts to know the Colts are getting a player of Lucks caliber ....they've been tremendous for years and their 1 down year they are in position to get someone like Luck. Where our dolphins have sucked for years and never have been blessed like this. Unreal!

damn right it hurts...cuts like a damn knife...but lets be honest this is par for the course as dolphins fans

baseballcb95
01-03-2012, 01:19 AM
Yeah, weve had legitimate shots at two of the top 3 qbs in the nfl and a damn good young guy in ryan. Out of it we got a great LT, a bust RB, a bust QB. No one to blame but ourselves.

Offer up FOUR entire drafts, picks 1-7 for luck. If your the colts how do u turn that down (provided manning still has 3 or so years left)

TheWarriorFins
01-03-2012, 01:19 AM
I have a feeling this will be epic. I must say College OTs are so very epic.

insom187
01-03-2012, 01:19 AM
hot damn ot...but fellas that picks not getting traded...luck sealed that sucker tonight already...but here we go...god i love this game

All it takes is Peyton saying one wrong thing and the Colts might blink on taking him, opening the door for an epic trade

ANUFan
01-03-2012, 01:19 AM
Well we did have a chance to draft Matt Ryan ;/.

Edit: Also as noted above, we did pass up Rodgers too :) and could have signed Drew Brees. We had our chances, we're just dumb.

I disagree completely we have never had a chance at something that looks as sure fire as Luck sorry. Every Qb that has been mentioned so far were questionable, this kids looks to be as guaranteed as one can be coming out of FBS

mrbunglez
01-03-2012, 01:20 AM
I think Marino's #13 jersey screwed not only him of winning a SB but it also screwed this whole franchise for 13+ yrs.

Pinkboy
01-03-2012, 01:21 AM
Go Oklahoma state baby !


Got some $$$ on this.


I made a KILLING on my NBA bets for tonight's games & want this one to come through too !!

phinsheat
01-03-2012, 01:22 AM
looks like boise state last year.

TheWarriorFins
01-03-2012, 01:22 AM
This kicker sucks

phinfan33
01-03-2012, 01:22 AM
John Elway and Peyton Manning all wrapped up in Andrew Luck,and short of a block buster trade,and a brainfart by the Colts,we won't get him.

Chavez Ravine
01-03-2012, 01:23 AM
at least this kid gets a Stanford Education....

TheWarriorFins
01-03-2012, 01:23 AM
Draft weeden!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

datruth55
01-03-2012, 01:23 AM
Both teams have good/great QBs and they start by running the ball. Why take the ball out of your QBs hands?

And Weeden delivers.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:24 AM
that kickers getting fat chick *** after tonight...boy did okla st get lucky tonight

datruth55
01-03-2012, 01:24 AM
Half a yard short.

insom187
01-03-2012, 01:25 AM
Oak State is showing why they got screwed.

datruth55
01-03-2012, 01:25 AM
Kick the FG.

mrbunglez
01-03-2012, 01:25 AM
OSU wins! Stanford kicker blows!

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:25 AM
All it takes is Peyton saying one wrong thing and the Colts might blink on taking him, opening the door for an epic trade

doubt it...but i guess you can hold onto that hope...we're not that lucky

datruth55
01-03-2012, 01:27 AM
Oak State is showing why they got screwed.

Stanford is a darn good team with the best QB in the country. They should have got their shot (Ok. State).

---------- Post added at 12:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 AM ----------

Here comes the block.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:27 AM
and this kicker with a damn mullet will have his choice of hot college coeds for an eternity at okla st...lmao

TheWarriorFins
01-03-2012, 01:28 AM
Lol this kicker sure ****ed Stanford up don't see him walking out alive

insom187
01-03-2012, 01:28 AM
that kickers getting fat chick *** after tonight...boy did okla st get lucky tonight

Both teams deserved to win, Stanford just had it last and their kicker just ruined Luck's effort

ANUFan
01-03-2012, 01:28 AM
I'm i wrong for being happy Standford lost because we can't get Luck?

TheWarriorFins
01-03-2012, 01:28 AM
BLEEDING FOR WEEDEN lol

phinfan33
01-03-2012, 01:30 AM
Hell of a game though.

insom187
01-03-2012, 01:30 AM
Stanford is a darn good team with the best QB in the country. They should have got their shot (Ok. State).

---------- Post added at 12:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 AM ----------

Here comes the block.

I cant and wont argue against that. Bring on the +1 game!!!

mrbunglez
01-03-2012, 01:31 AM
I wonder what Weeden said to Luck there...."Good luck in Indy, you're going to need it!"
Which in turn Luck said "Screw the colts! I'm holding out for Miami!".......ahhhhh one can dream...

Chavez Ravine
01-03-2012, 01:32 AM
after this, can't wait for a 9-6 Game Of The Century Part Deux

datruth55
01-03-2012, 01:32 AM
I'm i wrong for being happy Standford lost because we can't get Luck?
Elway never even took Stanford to a bowl game...but he got two super bowls. I have a feeling Luck will get his shot at a super bowl as well.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:34 AM
you know what though...if you've watched elway tape from stanford that guy was a FANTASTIC ATHLETE...i was floored when i looked at some of things athletically he pulled off...

insom187
01-03-2012, 01:35 AM
after this, can't wait for a 9-6 Game Of The Century Part Deux

What a frickin' joke that all is

baseballcb95
01-03-2012, 01:36 AM
Only thing that'll help me sleep tonight is thinking about the **** hole of a situation luck just played himself into. 100% nfl ready but will have to sit for 2-3 years depending on manning? Absolutely horrid supporting cast that will be masked by Peyton as they get late first round picks. Luck finally starts and hes left with Collie, Tamme, a turnstyle oline, no defense at all, a retired mathis and freeny, an injured sanders, and Addai at age 40 running the ball for 3.2 ypc.

Damn i wish we had the #1 pick :'[

datruth55
01-03-2012, 01:37 AM
you know what though...if you've watched elway tape from stanford that guy was a FANTASTIC ATHLETE...i was floored when i looked at some of things athletically he pulled off...
And that's why he was the #1 overall pick. Elway left it all on the field, not his fault he never had a decent team around him in college. Just like it's not Marino's fault he never had a defense worth a crap.

datruth55
01-03-2012, 01:38 AM
Only thing that'll help me sleep tonight is thinking about the **** hole of a situation luck just played himself into. 100% nfl ready but will have to sit for 2-3 years depending on manning? Absolutely horrid supporting cast that will be masked by Peyton as they get late first round picks. Luck finally starts and hes left with Collie, Tamme, a turnstyle oline, no defense at all, a retired mathis and freeny, an injured sanders, and Addai at age 40 running the ball for 3.2 ypc.

Damn i wish we had the #1 pick :'[
and Jim Caldwell as his coach...boy I would hate to be Luck looking at that right now.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:40 AM
fellas a qb the caliber of a peyton manning or what likely andrew luck will be means the colts outlook changes immediately...the sun is shining in lucas oil stadium right now...i can tell ya that

baseballcb95
01-03-2012, 01:41 AM
Im reaching big time here... but hear me out.

When everyone was on the suck 4 luck bandwagon, there were some who didn't go along with it, many using the reason, he could pull an Eli and request a trade cause he wouldnt want to be in our situation...

But with the Colts firing the Polians and luck having a good connection with a Polian, Manning coming back, that team being empty of talent... whats to stop luck from doing that to them?

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:41 AM
And that's why he was the #1 overall pick. Elway left it all on the field, not his fault he never had a decent team around him in college. Just like it's not Marino's fault he never had a defense worth a crap.

marino was still better...shula just never gave him a running game or a d worth a damn...had he marino would have rings...

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:43 AM
Im reaching big time here... but hear me out.

When everyone was on the suck 4 luck bandwagon, there were some who didn't go along with it, many using the reason, he could pull an Eli and request a trade cause he wouldnt want to be in our situation...

But with the Colts firing the Polians and luck having a good connection with a Polian, Manning coming back, that team being empty of talent... whats to stop luck from doing that to them?

he could try and what makes you think he greenlights miami given our current outlook???

Zounds
01-03-2012, 01:43 AM
Irsay never said he was taking Luck he said Manning isn't going anywhere and they would be inclined to take A QB. He also said he would take RG3.

Irsay said he would strongly consider drafting Luck and said he could sit Luck for a few years like Green Bay did with Brett Favre and Aaron Rogers. Reading between the lines, that sounds like a huge endorsement for drafting Luck.

mrbunglez
01-03-2012, 01:45 AM
Irsay said he would strongly consider drafting Luck and said he could sit Luck for a few years like Green Bay did with Brett Favre and Aaron Rogers. Reading between the lines, that sounds like a huge endorsement for drafting Luck.

He also gave a strong endorsement for RG3, we'll see what happens draft day. I see a lot of craziness happening the days leading up to it and the day of.

insom187
01-03-2012, 01:46 AM
Get Gruden as HC. A true QB coach with all the sauve and talk to get Luck to really want to play here.

mrbunglez
01-03-2012, 01:47 AM
he could try and what makes you think he greenlights miami given our current outlook???

I think the fins have a way better outlook than the colts, we got better talent across the board moreso than the colts.

baseballcb95
01-03-2012, 01:48 AM
Sit behind an elite QB for 2-3 years, on a team that majorly lacks talent and has no defense to speak of, when you have the talent and ability to start and be good from day 1?

or

Start immediately for a team with a solid young and improving defense, 2 stud olineman, a big time WR, and a rb with big play potential

Im almost 100% positive, if in a vacuum given the choice between the indy situation and ours, he would take ours 11 times out of 10. Lets just hope he has the balls to speak up! Im reaching so badly lol

JCane
01-03-2012, 01:52 AM
If the Colts draft Andrew Luck he's not sitting for two to three years. It's not happening.

Colts cannot afford to do that. They'll have to make their choice between Manning and Luck and they'll opt for Luck if they're smart.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:59 AM
I think the fins have a way better outlook than the colts, we got better talent across the board moreso than the colts.

i don't think so...as long as they have peyton manning provided he can play they're better off than we are...this game in this decade is all about the qb position...the rules are catered to it...you can't even hit seam busting te's anymore without getting penalties you can't touch wrs after 5 yards you get blocked into the qb down low at the legs you get a 15 yard penalty...this games all about the qb

baseballcb95
01-03-2012, 02:11 AM
i don't think so...as long as they have peyton manning provided he can play they're better off than we are...this game in this decade is all about the qb position...the rules are catered to it...you can't even hit seam busting te's anymore without getting penalties you can't touch wrs after 5 yards you get blocked into the qb down low at the legs you get a 15 yard penalty...this games all about the qb

ur missing the point big time.. and if you arent missing the point, then your crazy.

I think what your saying is the Colts with manning next year (luck on the bench) have a better outlook than the dolphins next year with someone like moore or flynn starting. I would agree.

But the point im trying to make is...

The colts with Luck (no peyton)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<The dolphins with luck.

Period, end of story. Its almost not debatable.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 02:19 AM
ur missing the point big time.. and if you arent missing the point, then your crazy.

I think what your saying is the Colts with manning next year (luck on the bench) have a better outlook than the dolphins next year with someone like moore or flynn starting. I would agree.

But the point im trying to make is...

The colts with Luck (no peyton)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<The dolphins with luck.

Period, end of story. Its almost not debatable.

i don't agree that the colts would not have manning and luck on the same roster...so no i'm not missing your point...i just don't think cause manning is there luck won't be or vice versa...but we'll see

ckparrothead
01-03-2012, 02:41 AM
Most people have the top QBs in this Draft (excluding Weeden) as Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin, Ryan Tannehill, Landry Jones and Nick Foles. Brandon Weeden has now faced all five of them, BEATEN all five of them AND OUT-PRODUCED all five of them in each of the games played.

I'm sorry but that counts for something because when you get right down to it there's a strong correlation between passing efficiency differential (offense minus defense), and winning football games. The goal of getting a really good QB is aimed specifically at that, the fact that if you pass better than the other guy during a game, you probably win. They don't just hand Super Bowl trophies to whoever is the best QB, and even though Tom Brady is considered better than a Phil Rivers you shouldn't be all that surprised when a Phil Rivers out-produces a Tom Brady and wins the game because Phil Rivers is that caliber a passer, and that's what you're looking for.

Well, no matter how much you notch up the competition in this Draft, Brandon Weeden has out-dueled that guy and beat him. That's what you're looking for, a guy that can do that on Sunday. Would I take Andrew Luck? Absolutely. I've been an Andrew Luck guy for approximately 26 months. But the chances are PRET-TY slim on that.

People talk about Weeden under pressure and in the pocket, his feet, etc. I don't get the criticism. It's what I like about him best. Or near as much. I also really love the confidence and aggression in his arm, and of course the accuracy and quality of the ball at all distances is second to maybe one. But under pressure he's extremely fluid in the pocket, always shuffling his feet. He doesn't try to hit homeruns with his scrambling ability. He tries to hit a lot of singles.

There was a perfect example and it happened to be on the one sack he took during the game. Stanford ran a disguised front where they had a lot of guys standing up and moving around just before the snap, then sent A gap pressure up the middle. A blitzer came right through the right side A gap barely touched. Weeden NEVER took his eyes off the field, and yet somehow he sensed that guy coming through and stepped one step to his left side, eyes still on the field, putting his tailback blocker directly in between Weeden and the blitzer. That was unbelievable in how natural and EFFECTIVE it was. I say effective because Weeden wasn't trying to hit a homerun with his scrambling ability, doing some ridiculous bit of scrambling out of the pocket, buying 3 to 5 more seconds and trying to unleash something deep. All he wanted to buy was 1 more second because that's all he felt he needed to get the ball out to the man he wanted.

Now, as it happens, on the play, the man he wanted ended up tightly covered and re-routed, and so Weeden had to pull down the ball and take a sack. But what's remarkable about the play is, here you've got this disguised blitz, disguised front, A gap blitzers and a guy coming right through the A gap untouched...and the resulting sack was a COVERAGE SACK. That's right, it was a COVERAGE SACK...because Weeden made the subtlest little move that bought him all the time he would have needed to throw that ball if his receiver hadn't been so thoroughly blasted by the coverage.

Do you know how Marino-esque that is?

And color me confused with all this continued criticism that if you get Weeden to move his feet he can't throw. That's some straight horse poopey. Does he lose the edge on his ridiculous accuracy/ball placement at all distances when he's moving around? Absolutely. Does just about every single quarterback not named Aaron Rodgers also lose the edge on their accuracy/ball placement when forced to move around? You're damn right.

What I notice about Weeden when he's moving around is he's a heck of a lot better athlete than people give him credit for. Look at that TD run. That was no easy run. He had to break tackles and run like a Wildcat QB, like he's Tim Tebow or something...but he still willed it in. I think what he lacks in this department is just REPS. I think if you got him into an offense where you asked him to do this more, he'd get better and better with it and then before you know it, who knows maybe you DO have an Aaron Rodgers on your hands as far as not losing accuracy/ball placement on the run.

Valandui
01-03-2012, 02:50 AM
Most people have the top QBs in this Draft (excluding Weeden) as Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin, Ryan Tannehill, Landry Jones and Nick Foles. Brandon Weeden has now faced all five of them, BEATEN all five of them AND OUT-PRODUCED all five of them in each of the games played.

I'm sorry but that counts for something because when you get right down to it there's a strong correlation between passing efficiency differential (offense minus defense), and winning football games. The goal of getting a really good QB is aimed specifically at that, the fact that if you pass better than the other guy during a game, you probably win. They don't just hand Super Bowl trophies to whoever is the best QB, and even though Tom Brady is considered better than a Phil Rivers you shouldn't be all that surprised when a Phil Rivers out-produces a Tom Brady and wins the game because Phil Rivers is that caliber a passer, and that's what you're looking for.

Well, no matter how much you notch up the competition in this Draft, Brandon Weeden has out-dueled that guy and beat him. That's what you're looking for, a guy that can do that on Sunday. Would I take Andrew Luck? Absolutely. I've been an Andrew Luck guy for approximately 26 months. But the chances are PRET-TY slim on that.

People talk about Weeden under pressure and in the pocket, his feet, etc. I don't get the criticism. It's what I like about him best. Or near as much. I also really love the confidence and aggression in his arm, and of course the accuracy and quality of the ball at all distances is second to maybe one. But under pressure he's extremely fluid in the pocket, always shuffling his feet. He doesn't try to hit homeruns with his scrambling ability. He tries to hit a lot of singles.

There was a perfect example and it happened to be on the one sack he took during the game. Stanford ran a disguised front where they had a lot of guys standing up and moving around just before the snap, then sent A gap pressure up the middle. A blitzer came right through the right side A gap barely touched. Weeden NEVER took his eyes off the field, and yet somehow he sensed that guy coming through and stepped one step to his left side, eyes still on the field, putting his tailback blocker directly in between Weeden and the blitzer. That was unbelievable in how natural and EFFECTIVE it was. I say effective because Weeden wasn't trying to hit a homerun with his scrambling ability, doing some ridiculous bit of scrambling out of the pocket, buying 3 to 5 more seconds and trying to unleash something deep. All he wanted to buy was 1 more second because that's all he felt he needed to get the ball out to the man he wanted.

Now, as it happens, on the play, the man he wanted ended up tightly covered and re-routed, and so Weeden had to pull down the ball and take a sack. But what's remarkable about the play is, here you've got this disguised blitz, disguised front, A gap blitzers and a guy coming right through the A gap untouched...and the resulting sack was a COVERAGE SACK. That's right, it was a COVERAGE SACK...because Weeden made the subtlest little move that bought him all the time he would have needed to throw that ball if his receiver hadn't been so thoroughly blasted by the coverage.

Do you know how Marino-esque that is?

And color me confused with all this continued criticism that if you get Weeden to move his feet he can't throw. That's some straight horse poopey. Does he lose the edge on his ridiculous accuracy/ball placement at all distances when he's moving around? Absolutely. Does just about every single quarterback not named Aaron Rodgers also lose the edge on their accuracy/ball placement when forced to move around? You're damn right.

What I notice about Weeden when he's moving around is he's a heck of a lot better athlete than people give him credit for. Look at that TD run. That was no easy run. He had to break tackles and run like a Wildcat QB, like he's Tim Tebow or something...but he still willed it in. I think what he lacks in this department is just REPS. I think if you got him into an offense where you asked him to do this more, he'd get better and better with it and then before you know it, who knows maybe you DO have an Aaron Rodgers on your hands as far as not losing accuracy/ball placement on the run.
Thank you. If we pass on him and trade everything for RG3, I'll be pretty upset. The thing is, everyone knocks him for his age, but are you really that much more likely to get more than five or six years out of RG3?

ckparrothead
01-03-2012, 02:57 AM
Thank you. If we pass on him and trade everything for RG3, I'll be pretty upset. The thing is, everyone knocks him for his age, but are you really that much more likely to get more than five or six years out of RG3?

Given RG3's attitude, his playing style and frame?

No.

Hayden Fox
01-03-2012, 04:37 AM
I like RGIII, but I do not want to give a ton to get him...which it will in order to secure him...

I do not have the stomach to start arguing over Weeden again. He did a nice job...but versus a secondary that has been torched before to be fair. Weeden has a stud in Blackmon that is the real story of the game. I am still not convinced of him still, but I digress. I hope he does one of the college prospect games and works in Indy and starts to do things like he will have to do in the NFL such as actually getting a snap from center.

I still think he is a day three pick, but maybe he has chance to move up depending on how he can perform under center in the evaluation period. Should be interesting to watch.

SR 7
01-03-2012, 05:14 AM
CK don't forget, Barkley almost beat Luck as well had his Offensive player not screwed up.

ONe thing about Luck, great QB but he goes toe to toe with TOO many QB that are listed below him instead of out shining and beating. Thats a concern for me.

Hayden Fox
01-03-2012, 09:10 AM
Most people have the top QBs in this Draft (excluding Weeden) as Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin, Ryan Tannehill, Landry Jones and Nick Foles. Brandon Weeden has now faced all five of them, BEATEN all five of them AND OUT-PRODUCED all five of them in each of the games played.

I'm sorry but that counts for something because when you get right down to it there's a strong correlation between passing efficiency differential (offense minus defense), and winning football games. The goal of getting a really good QB is aimed specifically at that, the fact that if you pass better than the other guy during a game, you probably win. They don't just hand Super Bowl trophies to whoever is the best QB, and even though Tom Brady is considered better than a Phil Rivers you shouldn't be all that surprised when a Phil Rivers out-produces a Tom Brady and wins the game because Phil Rivers is that caliber a passer, and that's what you're looking for.

Well, no matter how much you notch up the competition in this Draft, Brandon Weeden has out-dueled that guy and beat him. That's what you're looking for, a guy that can do that on Sunday. Would I take Andrew Luck? Absolutely. I've been an Andrew Luck guy for approximately 26 months. But the chances are PRET-TY slim on that.

People talk about Weeden under pressure and in the pocket, his feet, etc. I don't get the criticism. It's what I like about him best. Or near as much. I also really love the confidence and aggression in his arm, and of course the accuracy and quality of the ball at all distances is second to maybe one. But under pressure he's extremely fluid in the pocket, always shuffling his feet. He doesn't try to hit homeruns with his scrambling ability. He tries to hit a lot of singles.

There was a perfect example and it happened to be on the one sack he took during the game. Stanford ran a disguised front where they had a lot of guys standing up and moving around just before the snap, then sent A gap pressure up the middle. A blitzer came right through the right side A gap barely touched. Weeden NEVER took his eyes off the field, and yet somehow he sensed that guy coming through and stepped one step to his left side, eyes still on the field, putting his tailback blocker directly in between Weeden and the blitzer. That was unbelievable in how natural and EFFECTIVE it was. I say effective because Weeden wasn't trying to hit a homerun with his scrambling ability, doing some ridiculous bit of scrambling out of the pocket, buying 3 to 5 more seconds and trying to unleash something deep. All he wanted to buy was 1 more second because that's all he felt he needed to get the ball out to the man he wanted.

Now, as it happens, on the play, the man he wanted ended up tightly covered and re-routed, and so Weeden had to pull down the ball and take a sack. But what's remarkable about the play is, here you've got this disguised blitz, disguised front, A gap blitzers and a guy coming right through the A gap untouched...and the resulting sack was a COVERAGE SACK. That's right, it was a COVERAGE SACK...because Weeden made the subtlest little move that bought him all the time he would have needed to throw that ball if his receiver hadn't been so thoroughly blasted by the coverage.

Do you know how Marino-esque that is?

And color me confused with all this continued criticism that if you get Weeden to move his feet he can't throw. That's some straight horse poopey. Does he lose the edge on his ridiculous accuracy/ball placement at all distances when he's moving around? Absolutely. Does just about every single quarterback not named Aaron Rodgers also lose the edge on their accuracy/ball placement when forced to move around? You're damn right.

What I notice about Weeden when he's moving around is he's a heck of a lot better athlete than people give him credit for. Look at that TD run. That was no easy run. He had to break tackles and run like a Wildcat QB, like he's Tim Tebow or something...but he still willed it in. I think what he lacks in this department is just REPS. I think if you got him into an offense where you asked him to do this more, he'd get better and better with it and then before you know it, who knows maybe you DO have an Aaron Rodgers on your hands as far as not losing accuracy/ball placement on the run.

I wonder though how well Luck, RGIII, Tannehill and Foles would have done with Justin Blackmon running free. Have to admit, his receivers make him look very good.

Hayden Fox
01-03-2012, 09:11 AM
We need keep the comparisons of Weeden to Marino to a minimum. Easy now...

ChrisHanson
01-03-2012, 09:16 AM
It was Irsay, the Colts owner, that publicly stated they would take Luck. I don't think Polian's firing changes anything.

No he didn't.

ChrisHanson
01-03-2012, 09:54 AM
Justin Blackmon is the most dominate player in the game, he's who I want to trade up and get more than anyone.

If Luck and RG3 are out of our reach, then yes, Blackmon is the next guy I want. Hell, Blackmon and Marshall on the same team? I could play QB... :chuckle:

ChrisHanson
01-03-2012, 10:00 AM
Brandon Weeden has now faced all five of them, BEATEN all five of them AND OUT-PRODUCED all five of them in each of the games played.



I stopped reading right here. This is a piss poor way of looking at a TEAM game.

Did Weeden "BEAT" them all by himself? Was he catching his own passes, handing off the ball to himself and playing defense all by himself? If no, then he did not "BEAT" all five of them.

If Weeden didn't have the most dominate WR in all of college football then I may think he's worth a 3rd round pick. However, most QB's do very well in that Cowboy's offense without the most dominate WR in all of college football.

jim1
01-03-2012, 10:33 AM
I stopped reading right here. This is a piss poor way of looking at a TEAM game.

Did Weeden "BEAT" them all by himself? Was he catching his own passes, handing off the ball to himself and playing defense all by himself? If no, then he did not "BEAT" all five of them.

If Weeden didn't have the most dominate WR in all of college football then I may think he's worth a 3rd round pick. However, most QB's do very well in that Cowboy's offense without the most dominate WR in all of college football.

The relevance is that Weeden led his team to victories in all of those games and played quite well in the process, and as was pointed out he out-produced his highly rated QB counterparts in thise games. Of course he didn't win the games all by himself- that point is moot and is unnecessary. Blackmon helped Weeden and Weeden helped Blackmon, as it should be. That doesn't take away from how good Blackmon is, and it doesn't take away from the quality overall quarterbacking of Weeden- the dude is simply an excellent Quarterback.

On a different note- and this isn't necessarily dirceted at you Hanson- I've seen comments on this thread as to Weeden's touch and accuracy. No QB is going to be perfect all the time, but Weeden over the course of this year has been outstanding on both counts, not to mention having the most powerful and best overall arm I've seen all year. The Texas Tech game comes to mind- tremendous touch- and plenty of other games as well. Dude threw for an efficient 400 yards against Stanford-no complaints in this corner.

And the "systems QB" comments- does this all boil down to getting comfortable with a coventional drop in the pocket? Is that it? Something that he almost undoubtedly has done in the past and almost any Qb can do? Big deal- I doubt that there would be equal concerns for a college drop back QB who would be asked to operate out of the shotgun in the NFL on 3rd and maybe 2nd downs. This is a minor concern- at most.

Actually, I look at it as a positive. There will obvioulsy be a lot of running plays on 1st and 2nd down NFL plays anyway, but I'd rather take the QB who has already been trained to scan the whole field regularly and make sound decisions, as Weeden has been asked to and executed at an extremely high level. I'd look at his shotgun/"systems QB" label as a net positive, giving him a head start as per the NFL as compared to a traditional college drop back passer with much less experience passing and maximizing his all of his availiable weapons and the entire field. I don't think that college QBs come all that much more NFL ready than Brandon Weeden is right now.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 10:42 AM
nah...the stanford kicker beat andrew luck...brandon weeden didn't

Elliott 1
01-03-2012, 10:48 AM
Brandon Weeden being drafted by the Dolphins is so glaringly obvious as the best choice that I am completely convinced it won't happen. Not if Ireland is still the GM.

ChrisHanson
01-03-2012, 10:50 AM
The relevance is that Weeden led his team to victories in all of those games and played quite well in the process, and as was pointed out he out-produced his highly rated QB counterparts in thise games. Of course he didn't win the games all by himself- that point is moot and is unnecessary. Blackmon helped Weeden and Weeden helped Blackmon, as it should be. That doesn't take away from how good Blackmon is, and it doesn't take away from the quality overall quarterbacking of Weeden- the dude is simply an excellent Quarterback.

On a different note- and this isn't necessarily dirceted at you Hanson- I've seen comments on this thread as to Weeden's touch and accuracy. No QB is going to be perfect all the time, but Weeden over the course of this year has been outstanding on both counts, not to mention having the most powerful and best overall arm I've seen all year. The Texas Tech game comes to mind- tremendous touch- and plenty of other games as well. Dude threw for an efficient 400 yards, no complaints in this corner.

And the "systems QB" comments- does this all boil down to getting comfortable with a coventional drop in the pocket? Is that it? Something that he almost undoubtedly has done in the past and almost any Qb can do? Big deal- I doubt that there would be equal concerns for a college drop back QB who would be asked to operate out of the shotgun in the NFL on 3rd and maybe 2nd downs. This is a minor concern- at most.

Actually, I look at it as a positive. There will obvioulsy be a lot of running plays on 1st and 2nd down NFL plays anyway, but I'd rather take the QB who has already been trained to scan the whole field regularly and make sound decisions, as Weeden has been asked to and executed and an extremely high level. I'd look at his shotgun/"systems QB" label as a net positive, giving him a head start as per the NFL as compared to a traditional college drop back passer with much less experience passing and maximizing his all of his availiable weapons and the entire field. I don't think that college QBs come all that much more NFL ready than Brandon Weeden is right now.

Weeden's weapons are far better than any QB playing in college today. Weeden outproduced Luck because of Blackmon's play. Comparing QB's "head-to-head" is a crap way of analyzing their play. QB's don't play head-to-head. Hell, I'm not even sure one could say that Weeden was the better QB last night. Luck completed nearly 90% of his passes for 350yds and 2 TD's. Luck's yards per pass average was 2 yards greater than Weedens. Did you see Blackmon last night? If not for Blackmon breaking tackles and refusing to go down Weeden has a mediocre game, at best.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 10:55 AM
thats an interesting point about the lateral side steps from weeden being marinoesque...i never even really thought about that and it is similar

jim1
01-03-2012, 10:56 AM
Weeden's weapons are far better than any QB playing in college today. Weeden outproduced Luck because of Blackmon's play. Comparing QB's "head-to-head" is a crap way of analyzing their play. QB's don't play head-to-head. Hell, I'm not even sure one could say that Weeden was the better QB last night. Luck completed nearly 90% of his passes for 350yds and 2 TD's. Luck's yards per pass average was 2 yards greater than Weedens. Did you see Blackmon last night? If not for Blackmon breaking tackles and refusing to go down Weeden has a mediocre game, at best.

I'm not saying that Weeden outplayed Luck, they both played very well. Weeden used his best weapon, Blackmon, who is the best WR in college football- as he should. That is a competetvive advantage, but it's exactly what a smart QB would do, and it doesn't take away from Weeden's superior arm and overall ability. It just shows him to be smart and efficient.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 11:03 AM
both qbs did play very well...weeden looked a little nervous at first but he settled down and looked good...i have to think last night helped him...i wouldn't go so far as to say he outperformed luck though...

i'm comfortable with where i have him...

jim1
01-03-2012, 11:04 AM
nah...the stanford kicker beat andrew luck...brandon weeden didn't

---

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 11:09 AM
---

what is that supposed to be...brail...should i lay hands on it

Elliott 1
01-03-2012, 11:10 AM
Weeden's weapons are far better than any QB playing in college today. Weeden outproduced Luck because of Blackmon's play. Comparing QB's "head-to-head" is a crap way of analyzing their play. QB's don't play head-to-head. Hell, I'm not even sure one could say that Weeden was the better QB last night. Luck completed nearly 90% of his passes for 350yds and 2 TD's. Luck's yards per pass average was 2 yards greater than Weedens. Did you see Blackmon last night? If not for Blackmon breaking tackles and refusing to go down Weeden has a mediocre game, at best.

You watched a different game than I did.

ChrisHanson
01-03-2012, 11:16 AM
You watched a different game than I did.

You missed Blackmon's 190 yard 3 TD performance and Luck's ~90% compl %, 350 yards, 11 yards per pass average, and 2 TD game?

You missed a great game.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 11:23 AM
hey jim...hows that tim tebow thing goin for ya...he of the 4 for 20 for like 40 yards...only able to muster up a damn fg in a win and you're in home game against the freakin chiefs...

lmao

jim1
01-03-2012, 11:39 AM
hey jim...hows that tim tebow thing goin for ya...he of the 4 for 20 for like 40 yards...only able to muster up a damn fg in a win and you're in home game against the freakin chiefs...

lmao

Well, he turned a buried team around into a division champion and playoff team. Choke on that for a while. His knack for winning was a huge part of my analysis, and given the egg on your face regarding your lame analysis as per Tebow- well, it figures that you would comment on this after he had a bad game, after you've been choking on your own crapitude for the last several months. A guy like you, who was so incredibly wrong on the subject to comment on it- that's only to be expected. Like water, you consistently seek out your own level. And as to your frequent use of the internet standard "lfmao"- that's pretty much my thought every time I see "draft guru" under your screen name.

My previous post was deleted because it was made irrelevant by subsequent posts, so you can calm down and take a time out as per that.

Show Me Your TDs
01-03-2012, 11:43 AM
Most people have the top QBs in this Draft (excluding Weeden) as Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin, Ryan Tannehill, Landry Jones and Nick Foles. Brandon Weeden has now faced all five of them, BEATEN all five of them AND OUT-PRODUCED all five of them in each of the games played.

I'm sorry but that counts for something because when you get right down to it there's a strong correlation between passing efficiency differential (offense minus defense), and winning football games. The goal of getting a really good QB is aimed specifically at that, the fact that if you pass better than the other guy during a game, you probably win. They don't just hand Super Bowl trophies to whoever is the best QB, and even though Tom Brady is considered better than a Phil Rivers you shouldn't be all that surprised when a Phil Rivers out-produces a Tom Brady and wins the game because Phil Rivers is that caliber a passer, and that's what you're looking for.

Well, no matter how much you notch up the competition in this Draft, Brandon Weeden has out-dueled that guy and beat him. That's what you're looking for, a guy that can do that on Sunday. Would I take Andrew Luck? Absolutely. I've been an Andrew Luck guy for approximately 26 months. But the chances are PRET-TY slim on that.

People talk about Weeden under pressure and in the pocket, his feet, etc. I don't get the criticism. It's what I like about him best. Or near as much. I also really love the confidence and aggression in his arm, and of course the accuracy and quality of the ball at all distances is second to maybe one. But under pressure he's extremely fluid in the pocket, always shuffling his feet. He doesn't try to hit homeruns with his scrambling ability. He tries to hit a lot of singles.

There was a perfect example and it happened to be on the one sack he took during the game. Stanford ran a disguised front where they had a lot of guys standing up and moving around just before the snap, then sent A gap pressure up the middle. A blitzer came right through the right side A gap barely touched. Weeden NEVER took his eyes off the field, and yet somehow he sensed that guy coming through and stepped one step to his left side, eyes still on the field, putting his tailback blocker directly in between Weeden and the blitzer. That was unbelievable in how natural and EFFECTIVE it was. I say effective because Weeden wasn't trying to hit a homerun with his scrambling ability, doing some ridiculous bit of scrambling out of the pocket, buying 3 to 5 more seconds and trying to unleash something deep. All he wanted to buy was 1 more second because that's all he felt he needed to get the ball out to the man he wanted.

Now, as it happens, on the play, the man he wanted ended up tightly covered and re-routed, and so Weeden had to pull down the ball and take a sack. But what's remarkable about the play is, here you've got this disguised blitz, disguised front, A gap blitzers and a guy coming right through the A gap untouched...and the resulting sack was a COVERAGE SACK. That's right, it was a COVERAGE SACK...because Weeden made the subtlest little move that bought him all the time he would have needed to throw that ball if his receiver hadn't been so thoroughly blasted by the coverage.

Do you know how Marino-esque that is?

And color me confused with all this continued criticism that if you get Weeden to move his feet he can't throw. That's some straight horse poopey. Does he lose the edge on his ridiculous accuracy/ball placement at all distances when he's moving around? Absolutely. Does just about every single quarterback not named Aaron Rodgers also lose the edge on their accuracy/ball placement when forced to move around? You're damn right.

What I notice about Weeden when he's moving around is he's a heck of a lot better athlete than people give him credit for. Look at that TD run. That was no easy run. He had to break tackles and run like a Wildcat QB, like he's Tim Tebow or something...but he still willed it in. I think what he lacks in this department is just REPS. I think if you got him into an offense where you asked him to do this more, he'd get better and better with it and then before you know it, who knows maybe you DO have an Aaron Rodgers on your hands as far as not losing accuracy/ball placement on the run.

I'm sorry but for all of the good things you see in him I can not look past his age. Being a 29 yr old rookie is not acceptable. Oh and don't get me started on playing 19-21yr old competition at the age of 28.

ckparrothead
01-03-2012, 11:50 AM
I stopped reading right here. This is a piss poor way of looking at a TEAM game.

Did Weeden "BEAT" them all by himself? Was he catching his own passes, handing off the ball to himself and playing defense all by himself? If no, then he did not "BEAT" all five of them.

If Weeden didn't have the most dominate WR in all of college football then I may think he's worth a 3rd round pick. However, most QB's do very well in that Cowboy's offense without the most dominate WR in all of college football.

To be honest, I'm glad. What I write is not meant for the likes of you.

ckparrothead
01-03-2012, 11:53 AM
both qbs did play very well...weeden looked a little nervous at first but he settled down and looked good...i have to think last night helped him...i wouldn't go so far as to say he outperformed luck though...

i'm comfortable with where i have him...

I think you might be underestimating the importance of the turnovers. Brandon Weeden did throw an interception right away, but so did Andrew Luck, and so they were even on that front. However, with his end zone at his back, Andrew Luck botched a hand-off to the fullback, because he was nervous and sloppy and put the ball on the fullback's collar bone instead of in his gut...and gave Oklahoma State the ball right on the goal line, and that ended up being the difference in the game. Literally.

Weeden accounted for four touchdowns on the day and one turnover, Luck accounted for two touchdowns and two turnovers. If that's not one guy outperforming the other, then I guess there's never really any point in saying any guy ever outperformed any other guy on any given day.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 12:03 PM
Well, he turned a buried team around into a division champion and playoff team. Choke on that for a while. His knack for winning was a huge part of my analysis, and given the egg on your face regarding your lame analysis as per Tebow- well, it figures that you would comment on this after he had a bad game, after you've been choking on your own crapitude for the last several months. A guy like you, who was so incredibly wrong on the subject to comment on it- that's only to be expected. Like water, you consistently seek out your own level. And as to your frequent use of the internet standard "lfmao"- that's pretty much my thought every time I see "draft guru" under your screen name.

My previous post was deleted because it was made irrelevant by subsequent posts, so you can calm down and take a time out as per that.

i see we hit a nerve..awesome...as my for my draft guru thing i'll take you on head to head any day all day...and wipe the floor with you...

Phinatic8u
01-03-2012, 12:09 PM
Well, he turned a buried team around into a division champion and playoff team. Choke on that for a while. His knack for winning was a huge part of my analysis, and given the egg on your face regarding your lame analysis as per Tebow- well, it figures that you would comment on this after he had a bad game, after you've been choking on your own crapitude for the last several months. A guy like you, who was so incredibly wrong on the subject to comment on it- that's only to be expected. Like water, you consistently seek out your own level. And as to your frequent use of the internet standard "lfmao"- that's pretty much my thought every time I see "draft guru" under your screen name.

My previous post was deleted because it was made irrelevant by subsequent posts, so you can calm down and take a time out as per that.

LOL @ Tebow turning a team around, it was his damn defense that turned that tam around, just to get bounced rd1 in the playoffs. Waste of damn time.

ChrisHanson
01-03-2012, 12:12 PM
To be honest, I'm glad. What I write is not meant for the likes of you.

Wow. Seems as if you took my post personally? My post wasn't a knock on you personally. It's true though; comparing QB's on a head-to-head basis is a very poor way of analyzing QB's. Just because I don't fall lockstep with all of your OPINION's (like some of the sheep here) doesn't mean you have to get hurt feelings. :chuckle:

jim1
01-03-2012, 12:13 PM
i see we hit a nerve..awesome...as my for my draft guru thing i'll take you on head to head any day all day...and wipe the floor with you...

blah
blah
blah

You would actually have to be good to hit a nerve with me, and even then it's not likely. It's just not worth it with a clown like you.

You have the dual curse of having pedestrian knowledge and being petty- in other words, you're a waste of time. To paraphrase Motley Crue, take your limited aptitude and don't go away mad- just go away.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 12:15 PM
blah
blah
blah

You would actually have to be good to hit a nerve with me, and even then it's not likely. It's just not worth it with a clown like you.

You have the dual curse of having pedestrian knowledge and being petty- in other words, you're a waste of time. To paraphrase Motley Crue, take your limited aptitude and don't go away mad- just go away.

that's right...i said it...wipe the floor with you...

ChrisHanson
01-03-2012, 12:15 PM
I think you might be underestimating the importance of the turnovers. Brandon Weeden did throw an interception right away, but so did Andrew Luck, and so they were even on that front. However, with his end zone at his back, Andrew Luck botched a hand-off to the fullback, because he was nervous and sloppy and put the ball on the fullback's collar bone instead of in his gut...and gave Oklahoma State the ball right on the goal line, and that ended up being the difference in the game. Literally.

Weeden accounted for four touchdowns on the day and one turnover, Luck accounted for two touchdowns and two turnovers. If that's not one guy outperforming the other, then I guess there's never really any point in saying any guy ever outperformed any other guy on any given day.

Me thinks someone has a self-esteem problem and can't stand to be wrong.

Hey, to no one in particular, it's OK to be wrong. We're all wrong from time to time.

To CK, if all you're going to do is cherry pick one aspect of the game then I can do the same and insure that Weeden is the best QB in the history of football. :chuckle:

jim1
01-03-2012, 12:15 PM
LOL @ Tebow turning a team around, it was his damn defense that turned that tam around, just to get bounced rd1 in the playoffs. Waste of damn time.

Sure- what a waste of time, he turned a team around and won a division, made the playoffs. Funny how the Broncos sucked before Tebow took over, defense and all. Great post.

ChrisHanson
01-03-2012, 12:17 PM
that's right...i said it...wipe the floor with you...

Since your sig used to read "Luck or Barkley or our draft is a bust", and it seems we won't be able to get either, should the Dolphins just give away their draft picks?

jim1
01-03-2012, 12:18 PM
Me thinks someone has a self-esteem problem and can't stand to be wrong.

Hey, to no one in particular, it's OK to be wrong. We're all wrong from time to time.

To CK, if all you're going to do is cherry pick one aspect of the game then I can do the same and insure that Weeden is the best QB in the history of football. :chuckle:

CK gave a great analysis of what was really going on, and for some reason you feel the need to dump on it. It was a much better effort than your pedestrian offerings that it's a team game and Blackmon made Weeden look good.

Weeden played a solid game- you're right in that Blackmon helped him a lot, but there's nothing wrong with giving a QB who won a bowl game and threw for 400 yards a little credit. Both QBs played very well, I'm surprised at some of the criticism, it goes a bit far imo.

rob19
01-03-2012, 12:35 PM
CK did you like Cam Newton last year?

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 12:38 PM
i have no idea why jim wants to make it so personal...i guess because i don't buy into a 29 year old rookie qbs value in the top 10...but lets make it personal...jim you don't know squat...the only thing you bring to the table is daily mock draft links as you search the internet in every nook and cranny for brandon weedens name in the top 10 to help you validate your position...

i have more than validated myself over time as a draft analyst on this board...ask ck ask slimm ask all of them...you...lmao...well..you're here

Hayden Fox
01-03-2012, 12:59 PM
Why does everyone have to give their credentials in order to prove they are right? Just state your opinion and see how it plays out...

jim1
01-03-2012, 01:21 PM
i have no idea why jim wants to make it so personal...i guess because i don't buy into a 29 year old rookie qbs value in the top 10...but lets make it personal...jim you don't know squat...the only thing you bring to the table is daily mock draft links as you search the internet in every nook and cranny for brandon weedens name in the top 10 to help you validate your position...

i have more than validated myself over time as a draft analyst on this board...ask ck ask slimm ask all of them...you...lmao...well..you're here

You're completely full of it, and you're a hypocrite as well. I really don't care what you're analysis of Weeden or any other QB is, because I don't think that you're very good at analyzing Quarterbacks, or any other position for that matter.

As to your hypocrisy- this morning, out of the blue, I read this post from you, which has no relevance to this thread:

"hey jim...hows that tim tebow thing goin for ya...he of the 4 for 20 for like 40 yards...only able to muster up a damn fg in a win and you're in home game against the freakin chiefs...

lmao"

So again that piece of crap, petty and needless post, combined with the first line of this post of yours which I am responding to (highlighted for your convenience) shows what a petty hypocrite you are. You're out there blatantly off topic trolling with a nasty post directed at me, and then play the "who, me?" game with the classic response: "i have no idea why jim wants to make it so personal".

and this piece of crap post from you:

"i see we hit a nerve..awesome...as my for my draft guru thing i'll take you on head to head any day all day...and wipe the floor with you..."

Those are just pathetic posts which make you worthy of pos status. As a draft analyst you're advanced intermediate at best, veering more to just plain average. As a poster you're petty and lame. Take your garbage elsewhere, you're average analysis doesn't come close to warranting the pathetic, hypocritical crap that is far too often in your posts. So do us both a favor- take it elsewhere. I have no interest in your petty, spiteful bs or your limited draft knowledge.

Valandui
01-03-2012, 01:29 PM
I wonder though how well Luck, RGIII, Tannehill and Foles would have done with Justin Blackmon running free. Have to admit, his receivers make him look very good.
Kendall Wright hasn't been doing the same, if not more?

rickd13
01-03-2012, 01:42 PM
CK did you like Cam Newton last year?

Actually CK loved Newton last year and so did I. I butted heads a little with CK about Mallet's off field issues. I totally agree with CK about Weeden this year. I actually think he is a much better prospect than Mallet was and if Weeden was not 29 years old he might be in the running for the first over all pick with Luck. He would most definitely be the second QB taken even if Matt Barkley was in this draft.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:48 PM
You're completely full of it, and you're a hypocrite as well. I really don't care what you're analysis of Weeden or any other QB is, because I don't think that you're very good at analyzing Quarterbacks, or any other position for that matter.

As to your hypocrisy- this morning, out of the blue, I read this post from you, which has no relevance to this thread:
"hey jim...hows that tim tebow thing goin for ya...he of the 4 for 20 for like 40 yards...only able to muster up a damn fg in a win and you're in home game against the freakin chiefs...

lmao"

So again that piece of crap, petty and needless post, combined with the first line of this post of yours which I am responding to (highlighted for your convenience) shows what a petty hypocrite you are. You're out there blatantly off topic trolling with a nasty post directed at me, and then play the "who, me?" game with the classic response: "i have no idea why jim wants to make it so personal".

and this piece of crap post from you:

"i see we hit a nerve..awesome...as my for my draft guru thing i'll take you on head to head any day all day...and wipe the floor with you..."

Those are just pathetic posts which make you worthy of pos status. As a draft analyst you're advanced intermediate at best, veering more to just plain average. As a poster you're petty and lame. Take your garbage elsewhere, you're average analysis doesn't come close to warranting the pathetic, hypocritical crap that is far too often in your posts. So do us both a favor- take it elsewhere. I have no interest in your petty, spiteful bs or your limited draft knowledge.


the first one on tebow was really me just bustin chops since you pointed out earlier this year how you hit on tebow with your draft analysis and i told you i wouldn't be so quick to call that a hit...but you've got zero sense of humor...you want to attack me like you did...fine...i fight fire with fire...the last one was nothing but the truth...i'd wipe the floor with you...

ckparrothead
01-03-2012, 01:57 PM
CK did you like Cam Newton last year?

Yes. I did a more thorough review of Cam Newton's tape in December/January of last year and came away extremely impressed, not buying MOST of the criticisms that were floating around out there. We decided to do a thorough background and tape study on Cam Newton for the South Florida Sun Sentinel at a time when Newton was buzzing as a topic of conversation. In mid-February, at a time when Newton was not yet really being seriously considered by most media analysts for the #1 overall pick, we wrote that not only should Newton be the #1 overall, but that purely on a quarterbacking talent basis, he is a rare quarterback prospect that comes around maybe once in a decade. We wrote that the only reason you can't grade him as high as a once-in-decade type (like Peyton Manning) is because of the criminal history with the stolen laptop and a bunch of traffic/parking violations in Gainesville. But we also made it clear that we felt Newton had firmly put that kind of irresponsible behavior behind him, and had grown significantly at Blinn College.

I remember the atmosphere at the time we wrote all that, too. Mel Kiper wasn't a buyer. Todd McShay wasn't a buyer. Wes Bunting and Chad Reuter certainly were not. Mike Mayock was blasting Newton at every opportunity. Charlie Casserly was saying he's a 3rd round pick or some crap like that. Nolan Nawrocki was blasting Newton. I remember the Combine, during weigh-ins. The NFL Network desk with Mayock were discussing Newton, and Mayock was SICK of all the Newton talk. He's not worth all this talk, he kept saying. Someone put up a mock draft and had Carolina taking Newton #1. Off camera, at the desk, you could hear giggling from the guys sitting next to Mayock, who was apparently going apoplectic with rage. The guy talking about his mock asks, "What, you don't think the Panthers are taking a quarterback at #1?" The camera cuts to Mayock, whose face is literally red, and he shouts, "NOT THAT QUARTERBACK!"

That was the atmosphere and environment we were operating in when we wrote our piece on Newton. And we weren't just buyers of Cam Newton. We were one of the very few that can legitimately claim that the season he had in 2011 doesn't surprise us, based on our evaluation of his talent. And that's saying something.

jim1
01-03-2012, 02:01 PM
the first one on tebow was really me just bustin chops since you pointed out earlier this year how you hit on tebow with your draft analysis and i told you i wouldn't be so quick to call that a hit...but you've got zero sense of humor...you want to attack me like you did...fine...i fight fire with fire...the last one was nothing but the truth...i'd wipe the floor with you...

Sure, keep telling yourself that. You're so average that it hurts, and it obvioulsy hurts you because you're so consistently defensive about it. Speaking of hurting, the mystery that is you're "draft guru" status can be solved with a few possible scenarios, and not surprisingly every one of those scenarios includes knee pads.

If I recall correctly I had you on "ignore" a few years ago. Now that I'm on my second go-around with finheaven, you're certaintly ready for that again. Take your crap- crap being defined in this case as your marginal draft analysis, combined with your lame posts and your obnoxious demeanor- elsewhere. I don't think that I can be any clearer than I have been already- I have no interest in your crappy posts or questionable, self deluded level of football knowledge. So take it elsewhere, you're a waste of space.

ckparrothead
01-03-2012, 02:02 PM
Actually CK loved Newton last year and so did I. I butted heads a little with CK about Mallet's off field issues. I totally agree with CK about Weeden this year. I actually think he is a much better prospect than Mallet was and if Weeden was not 29 years old he might be in the running for the first over all pick with Luck. He would most definitely be the second QB taken even if Matt Barkley was in this draft.

I don't know about "much better"...but yes I have Brandon Weeden as a better PRO quarterback talent than Mallett. Better feet, better in pressure situations.

One year ago I spoke with Brandon Weeden. I told Brandon that with Andrew Luck making the decision to stay in school, that made Brandon the most complete passing prospect potentially available in the Draft. Not necessarily the best period, because that honor belonged to Cam Newton...but the most complete passer.

I stand by that comment today. Fast forward a year, and he's still the most complete passing prospect in the Draft that isn't named Andrew Luck.

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 02:11 PM
Sure, keep telling yourself that. You're so average that it hurts, and it obvioulsy hurts you because you're so consistently defensive about it. Speaking of hurting, the mystery that is you're "draft guru" status can be solved with a few possible scenarios, and not surprisingly every one of those scenarios includes knee pads.

If I recall correctly I had you on "ignore" a few years ago. Now that I'm on my second go-around with finheaven, you're certaintly ready for that again. Take your crap- crap being defined in this case as your marginal draft analysis, combined with your lame posts and your obnoxious demeanor- elsewhere. I don't think that I can be any clearer than I have been already- I have no interest in your crappy posts or questionable, self deluded level of football knowledge. So take it elsewhere, you're a waste of space.

fair enough...i can get the same value you bring by clicking copy and paste

mrbunglez
01-03-2012, 02:12 PM
Wow fellas can we all be at least civilized here? We all have our own formed opinion and that's great, there's no need to get angry about it, what is this the romper room?

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 02:14 PM
Wow fellas can we all be at least civilized here? We all have our own formed opinion and that's great, there's no need to get angry about it, what is this the romper room?

i'm done...he's a joke...on to other things

ChrisHanson
01-03-2012, 02:21 PM
CK gave a great analysis of what was really going on, and for some reason you feel the need to dump on it. It was a much better effort than your pedestrian offerings that it's a team game and Blackmon made Weeden look good.

Weeden played a solid game- you're right in that Blackmon helped him a lot, but there's nothing wrong with giving a QB who won a bowl game and threw for 400 yards a little credit. Both QBs played very well, I'm surprised at some of the criticism, it goes a bit far imo.

I never said Weeden didn't have a great game. In fact, I said I "WASN'T SURE" if Weeden had the better game. Since both QB's played great and I was unsure. How is that dumping?

My comment to his post was the FACT that he used QB head-to-head analysis in order to further his opinion of Weeden. And IN MY OPINION, using head-to-head stats or game outcomes for QB play is pretty damn foolish and doesn't prove anything...one way or the other.

The fact that nearly all QB's look great in that OSU offense AND the fact that Weeden has the most dominate WR in the college ranks doesn't help him move up to the 1st or 2nd round.

rob19
01-03-2012, 02:25 PM
Wasn't trying to give you a hard time or anything CK, was just curious, nominated you for poster of the year last year. I do hope your wrong about RG3 though if we end up with him, unlikely as that may be.

About Weeden, do you think it'll take 3-4 years to develop like most QB's? Kinda off-putting to potentially have a 33 year old who's just coming into his prime as an NFL quarterback when most guys do that at like 26 or 27. I ask because I have a sinking feeling that we're not coming out of the first round with a QB. Would you prefer Tannehill or Weeden in round 2 if available?

--
Didn't read the whole thread so I don't know if this was already discussed.

ckparrothead
01-03-2012, 02:29 PM
Wasn't trying to give you a hard time or anything CK, was just curious, nominated you for poster of the year last year. I do hope your wrong about RG3 though if we end up with him, unlikely as that may be.

About Weeden, do you think it'll take 3-4 years to develop like most QB's? Kinda off-putting to potentially have a 33 year old who's just coming into his prime as an NFL quarterback when most guys do that at like 26 or 27. I ask because I have a sinking feeling that we're not coming out of the first round with a QB. Would you prefer Tannehill or Weeden in round 2 if available?

--
Didn't read the whole thread so I don't know if this was already discussed.

I didn't think you were giving me a hard time. I was just explaining my history as far as my opinion on Newton. I was probably tepid until around December when I delved in more heavily. Then I was a hard core Newton fan.

As for the other things you bring up, a couple of points. One, I don't think it really takes QBs 3-4 years nowadays. I think this is a different NFL than it used to be. My studies show that passer ratings of guys that start as rookies and second year players ends up approximating their career passer ratings. In other words, by their 2nd season, these guys are already passing about as efficiently as they will in their career. About half of them, interestingly enough, already pass efficiently in their rookie year. Quarterback learning curves have shortened CONSIDERABLY in the modern era.

Does that mean QBs don't keep getting better after year two? No, in fact the best QBs continue getting better as far into their careers as their 10th season. That's the nature of the position. It's a mental position, so you keep getting better until your body lets you down. But the bulk of the learning curve, I would say, happens in that first year and already by your 2nd year, MAYBE your 3rd year, you should probably have reached the point where people are impressed with you, and if you haven't...something's wrong.

As for Brandon Weeden, will he have a long learning curve, a short one, or a normal one? I want to say he'll have a short one. Physical talent profiles tend to trump early in NFL careers. In other words, guys like Ben Roethlisberger and Cam Newton that are tall, big and strong and can throw a football through a brick wall, they're the ones that have increased chances of not just being average, but being genuinely GOOD even as rookies. Dan Marino similar...god-given talent. Guys that are more mental in their profile? They have to sharpen their tools a little longer. So given that and given Brandon Weeden's unusual maturity, I think the chances are good he'll have a pretty good rookie year (if allowed to start). Not saying he'll have a Cam Newton or Roethlisberger rookie year, but a Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan rookie year? Definitely within reach.

Prefer Weeden to Tannehill.

daniel3
01-03-2012, 02:33 PM
Blackmon tainted this game by showing us how ridiculous a player he is, sort of a "Screw these guys, I should be #1 pick" performance. Weeden played well, but I thought Luck played a quite a bit better due in part to the effort and thought it seemed he put into pushing Stanford forward. I did see him do a lot of things that really were unnecessary and didn't fool anymore, but scouts will eat it up all the same. Weeden doesn't seem that bad, but still the age thing is a bit disconcerting for a team who is looking for a long term option at QB. If he is the pick we look for in "2nd" round, it will be awkward telling having him take over the ship from Moore, who is 2 years younger.

JCPHIN_PHAN
01-03-2012, 02:46 PM
That was the atmosphere and environment we were operating in when we wrote our piece on Newton. And we weren't just buyers of Cam Newton. We were one of the very few that can legitimately claim that the season he had in 2011 doesn't surprise us, based on our evaluation of his talent. And that's saying something.

I remember your piece about Newton and came away thinking later that if Andrew Luck would have came out last year, The Panthers would have taken him. Leaving Newton to a Dolphins trade up.(as far fetched as that sounds for our regime....lol)

ckparrothead
01-03-2012, 02:51 PM
If Blackmon "tainted" the game by being so good then I guess the Stanford OL and Stepfan Taylor also "tainted" Luck's performance by being so good at running the ball down Oklahoma State's throat. I guess Coby Fleener and Levine Toilolo "tainted" Luck's performance by being high round quality NFL prospects.

ckparrothead
01-03-2012, 02:53 PM
I remember your piece about Newton and came away thinking later that if Andrew Luck would have came out last year, The Panthers would have taken him. Leaving Newton to a Dolphins trade up.(as far fetched as that sounds for our regime....lol)

Until approximately one week before the release of our article, the reason we even decided to do a Newton piece was because it was a hot topic of conversation whether the Dolphins should take Newton at #15.

mrbunglez
01-03-2012, 02:54 PM
I like Toilolo he's a friggen beast.