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View Full Version : *Official 'knocks' thread: 2012 Draft Prospects*



TedSlimmJr
01-03-2012, 01:11 PM
This thread is specifically for knocks, concerns, questions, red flags or things of that nature that pertain specifically to technique, character, or physical limitations of any and every prospect in the 2012 draft.

Every prospect has a knock, there are no perfect prospects in any draft. Not even the elite, blue chip players are immune...

This thread is for those that have studied players and are familiar with even the slightest concerns they might have regarding ALL eligible prospects.

Again, this thread is specifically for knocks... leave the man crushes and foaming at the mouth for the other threads. Furthermore, don't pick players to knock because of bias. Avoid choosing only prospects that you dislike for one reason or another. Pick players that you like. In order for you to like them, you must be familiar with their game.




I'll start with Brandon Weeden.


I've gone back and watched several of his games many times over. One of the concerns I have with Weeden is his ball placement can get sketchy. He's a streaky passer. Has a tendancy to miss high on throws because he doesn't always set his feet. Even on passes that end up completions, many times the throw is simply too high on in breaking routes, which could result in getting his receivers some hurt ribs going over the middle in the NFL.

Too much confidence in his arm at times, and will try to force throws that aren't the most sound decisions. Telegraphs a lot of his throws outside the numbers, which is where the majority of his interceptions happen.

Plays in a system designed to inflate stats, and against bad defenses nonetheless in the Big-12. The stick/draw concept of Dana Holgorsen is not one you're going to make a living on in the NFL.

Obviously his age, and wear and tear on his shoulder from throwing a baseball. Throwing a baseball is one of the most unnatural things the human body can do.

TedSlimmJr
01-03-2012, 01:13 PM
Continue with knocks you have on Brandon Weeden, or move on to another prospect if you choose.

finsfanjay13
01-03-2012, 01:28 PM
Obvious knock on Vontaze Burflict: He may be legitimately crazy. Has all the talent in the world, but can he figure it out mentally and mature? As of right now, he's destined for a strong locker room that can help him to mature.

TedSlimmJr
01-03-2012, 01:48 PM
Alfonzo Dennard - CB - Nebraska


Too physical and fiesty for his own good. Technique gets sloppy trying to bully receivers in press. You can't get away with a lot of what Dennard does in the NFL... they'll flag him. He'll have to learn to use better technique throughout and transition to a little more of a bump-and-run style.

Temper got the best of him yesterday as he tried to rough up Alshon Jeffrey all game, only to see Alshon easily seperate from him and run by him for a huge gain on a 9-route. They went at it all game and it was a good battle that shouldn't have ended with both players getting ejected. Jeffrey shouldn't have been ejected to begin with, although I thought Dennard deserved to be tossed for throwing punches.

Size. He's a little on the short side at around 5'10".

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:53 PM
imo you guys are 3 for 3...

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 01:57 PM
yep...dennards way too hands on for the next level right now...he's gonna have to play with better technique and not get so handsy down the field or the yellow hanky will never be in the officials pocket at the next level...i wonder about his straight line speed also after watching jeffery run right by him

burflict also can go for the kill shot instead of wrapping up and using sound tackling technique...and yeah slimm weedens ball placement to me isn't great at times...

MiamiDolphin618
01-03-2012, 05:00 PM
Donte Paige-Moss. His stock just took a major hit after tearing his ACL...and although I havent seen to many UNC games this year from a numbers standpoint his impact plays were down from last year...lacking some consistency it seems which is another red flag. Still...it will be interesting to see how far he will drop because he seems to have the talent to be an impact player. Could be a guy you take a flier on later in the draft and hope he recovers. High reward if he does...

ChambersWI
01-03-2012, 05:04 PM
Donte Paige-Moss. His stock just took a major hit after tearing his ACL...and although I havent seen to many UNC games this year from a numbers standpoint his impact plays were down from last year...lacking some consistency it seems which is another red flag. Still...it will be interesting to see how far he will drop because he seems to have the talent to be an impact player. Could be a guy you take a flier on later in the draft and hope he recovers. High reward if he does...

he's got character concerns as well... Check out his twitter rant about declaring for the draft and how the fans don't support the team.

Agree with Dennard. I know Raheem Morris loved Dennard for the Tampa 2. Otherwise I don't know where he fits.

Roman529
01-03-2012, 05:34 PM
Alshon Jeffrey.....big 6'4" wide receiver....weighs 220, but looks closer to 240. He could end up being heavy like TE Antonio Gates, but man can he catch the ball. I think Jeffrey is the 2nd best WR behind Blackmon, and Floyd third, if we go after a WR.

TedSlimmJr
01-03-2012, 05:55 PM
Morris Claiborne - CB - LSU


Honestly, it's hard to find a knock on Claiborne. I told hoops back in October that this was the best defensive player in the country in my opinion.

However, the only thing I've seen Claiborne be susceptible to is the double move... and the only time I've seen it happen is in the first half of the SEC Championship Game against Georgia. His recovery speed and hips still allow him to recover even when he finds himself out-of-phase.

That's the only knock I have on Claiborne. I hope we can get him a time or two on a double move in New Orleans....but I'm not counting on it.

SamIam
01-03-2012, 06:08 PM
do we really need a CB Slimm? i think we are in good shape with vontae and smith... no?

hooshoops
01-03-2012, 06:13 PM
only thing i would say about claiborne is sometimes he looks bored to me out there...and i've seen him a few times have some issues in the slot...

2413fanphins
01-03-2012, 06:25 PM
don't forget claiborne hasn't been playing in the secondary his whole life. He was a WR, and with time he will perfect the position.. I think he can be darell revis like...but like mentioned before, seems to get lulled to sleep and than bites on a double move...

fixable, sky is the limit for this kid IMO>

ckparrothead
01-03-2012, 06:46 PM
I'm not sure Brandon Weeden really makes his living on the stick/draw concept. As for whether it's used in the NFL or not, it is. I've seen Green Bay use it several times.

TedSlimmJr
01-03-2012, 07:18 PM
There's nothing wrong with having a Y-stick built into your passing game. The Saints use the concept a lot in there passing game.

My point was that Weeden made a living off the stick/draw concept last year. He's improved his ability to go through progressions from last year to this year.

Now it's more of a stick/slant concept... but it's still a 1 progression/half field read designed to beat man or zone coverage. The playside OLB is the read key, and nobody beats man coverage like Justin Blackmon on the slant. Nobody puts himself between the defender and the ball against zone better than Justin Blackmon.

Weeden is a fine quarterback and has gotten better. I don't necessarily see "Jesus in cleats" or whatever term is commonly used now for inflated Big-12 quarterbacks, but I see an NFL starter if he's surrounded with enough talent and protected.

TedSlimmJr
01-03-2012, 07:22 PM
Speaking of Justin Blackmon, anything in his game cause you to think he may not be a top 5 lock? Any knocks or inconsistencies in his game?

LouPhinFan
01-03-2012, 09:14 PM
Speaking of Justin Blackmon, anything in his game cause you to think he may not be a top 5 lock? Any knocks or inconsistencies in his game?

Perhaps top end speed? The kid is a monster no doubt but he kinda looks like he lacks that top gear.

rob19
01-03-2012, 09:28 PM
do we really need a CB Slimm? i think we are in good shape with vontae and smith... no?

I think Slims' a Bama fan, meant in the national title game.

PSU Cane
01-03-2012, 09:35 PM
Andrew Luck....needs to shave that neck beard. That thing is hidious.

On a serious note, i'm not a big fan of either Quinton Coples or Jerel Worthy. I question the motors of both guys. Worthy constantly leaves the field b/c he's gassed and takes plays off. Also, is it true that UNC wanted to move Coples back inside to DT, especially on pass downs to get more rush and Coples said no b/c it would hurt his draft status? Just something i heard or read somewhere. Coples doesn't seem to have a great burst off the line or be as agile as most elite pass rushers and i think he's better suited to go against right tackles in the NFL.

Oh, and unless Jeffery loses some weight and gets some speed back, i think he might struggle getting off press coverage in the NFL ala Mike Williams. Dennard owned him off the line that entire game (minus that one long pass).

VAMinnow
01-03-2012, 09:37 PM
yep...dennards way too hands on for the next level right now...he's gonna have to play with better technique and not get so handsy down the field or the yellow hanky will never be in the officials pocket at the next level...i wonder about his straight line speed also after watching jeffery run right by him

Too hands on... a la Revis?

Dogbone34
01-03-2012, 11:14 PM
not sure RG3 is thick enough for the NFL

ckparrothead
01-03-2012, 11:49 PM
I don't have any problems with Justin Blackmon. I don't think he's going to be a Randy Moss but he's going to have a good and highly productive career, especially in today's pass happy NFL.

Rewind a year ago and I'd have told you I don't see him doing enough after the catch. But now I look at him, first off you can just look at his body and tell his work ethic is off the charts, and secondly he's beasting defenders after the catch. Look what he did to Stanford's secondary after the catch.

He's one of those guys that just suddenly "got it", when it comes to work ethic. He was nothing in 2009, and his coaches told him he could be the man if he'd just work at it. He saw that they were right and now he appears to be a work addict because he knows he sees rewards.

Just gotta stay away from the whores. "Inner thigh infection".

damanref10
01-04-2012, 12:05 AM
I don't have any problems with Justin Blackmon. I don't think he's going to be a Randy Moss but he's going to have a good and highly productive career, especially in today's pass happy NFL.

Rewind a year ago and I'd have told you I don't see him doing enough after the catch. But now I look at him, first off you can just look at his body and tell his work ethic is off the charts, and secondly he's beasting defenders after the catch. Look what he did to Stanford's secondary after the catch.

He's one of those guys that just suddenly "got it", when it comes to work ethic. He was nothing in 2009, and his coaches told him he could be the man if he'd just work at it. He saw that they were right and now he appears to be a work addict because he knows he sees rewards.

Just gotta stay away from the whores. "Inner thigh infection".

saw that tweet of yours about it last night and almost fell out of my chair.

only thing i can think about with Blackmon is one of his greatest assets in the college game but could become an issue in today's NFL... He is clearly a full step faster than almost every CB he plays off the LOS. His size, coupled with his quick break makes the slant almost un-guardable in the college game just based on physical talent alone. I have concerns (albeit minor), that when the physical gap shrinks between himself and professional corners, that the rest of his route running tree might not be anywhere near ready to create the game breaking plays he is making now. His size will always be a major help in being able to be productive, with or without creating large separation between himself and the corner.

He is by far and away in my eyes the best WR in this class (no shocker), but I don't see him being as polished right out of the gate as some of the more recent Top Tier WR prospects.

hooshoops
01-04-2012, 12:11 AM
i think blackmon is gonna suffer from time to time with a case of the drops...especially on the deep vertical balls...he's similar to me at least to terrell owens as a player...don't think he's a great route runner but don't think at that size and stature he's gonna need to be

jeffery to me looks like he's still got baby fat on him...i'm not in love with his body...i wonder about him as a route runner and i did have questions about his top end speed but running away from dennard the other day helped remedy some of that for me...something about jeffery though says be careful to me...

ckparrothead
01-04-2012, 12:14 AM
i think blackmon is gonna suffer from time to time with a case of the drops...especially on the deep vertical balls...he's similar to me at least to terrell owens as a player...don't think he's a great route runner but don't think at that size and stature he's gonna need to be

jeffery to me looks like he's still got baby fat on him...i'm not in love with his body...i wonder about him as a route runner and i did have questions about his top end speed but running away from dennard the other day helped remedy some of that for me...something about jeffery though says be careful to me...

I was thinking the EXACT same thing last night.

---------- Post added at 11:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 PM ----------

As for Alshon Jeffery, there are evidently running jokes about Alshon's struggles with eating too much...which is a concern...I wouldn't call that "baby fat", lol...

hooshoops
01-04-2012, 12:21 AM
the other thing though is last night against stanfords secondary it was like a man against boys...i mean a joke...they were fallin off him like flies...i'd like to see some tape of him against a legit corner...i'm a fan of that kid from iowa st i mentioned earlier...i think he's underrated in this corner class...i'm gonna take another look at that matchup...and i also think that offense helps blackmon to an extent...i think that offense helps everybody...i'm not sure i can find any tape of blackmon against bump and run but one would have to think with that body he can get off it...michael floyd...now i've seen plenty of evidence of him getting off the los very well against the jam etc...

datruth55
01-04-2012, 12:43 AM
the other thing though is last night against stanfords secondary it was like a man against boys...i mean a joke...they were fallin off him like flies...i'd like to see some tape of him against a legit corner...i'm a fan of that kid from iowa st i mentioned earlier...i think he's underrated in this corner class...i'm gonna take another look at that matchup...and i also think that offense helps blackmon to an extent...i think that offense helps everybody...i'm not sure i can find any tape of blackmon against bump and run but one would have to think with that body he can get off it...michael floyd...now i've seen plenty of evidence of him getting off the los very well against the jam etc...
Leonard Johnson is the kid from Iowa State who was playing out of his mind. It was the only game I've seen Iowa State play this year so I don't know how common that type of performance is for him but he was outstanding in that game.

PJack
01-04-2012, 12:59 AM
But can you imagine a TO without the whole locker room cancer thing!!??. I love this guy more than AJ Green from last year because of his strength/speed combination. Frankly I liked Julio Jones a bit better than Green because of his size speed combination though both were awesome prospects. Only odd thing with yesterdays game was Blackmon going to the sideline late in the game for a blow. I get that part but thought it was strange when he was out 3-5 plays at crunch time.


i think blackmon is gonna suffer from time to time with a case of the drops...especially on the deep vertical balls...he's similar to me at least to terrell owens as a player...don't think he's a great route runner but don't think at that size and stature he's gonna need to be

jeffery to me looks like he's still got baby fat on him...i'm not in love with his body...i wonder about him as a route runner and i did have questions about his top end speed but running away from dennard the other day helped remedy some of that for me...something about jeffery though says be careful to me...

damanref10
01-04-2012, 01:06 AM
But can you imagine a TO without the whole locker room cancer thing!!??. I love this guy more than AJ Green from last year because of his strength/speed combination. Frankly I liked Julio Jones a bit better than Green because of his size speed combination though both were awesome prospects. Only odd thing with yesterdays game was Blackmon going to the sideline late in the game for a blow. I get that part but thought it was strange when he was out 3-5 plays at crunch time.

Kid was playing his heart out and had one hell of a series before needing to come out. Don't think it was a lack of conditioning or character issue of any kind... simply was tired.... racking up 200 yards and 3 tds isn't easy, he was just gassed after that huge conversion.

I agree with Hoops about Stanfords secondary just being totally over-matched. Alludes to what im still taking the wait and see approach to, which sadly will probably have to be until the NFL, whether or not against better corners he can still beast it up.

hooshoops
01-04-2012, 02:05 AM
Leonard Johnson is the kid from Iowa State who was playing out of his mind. It was the only game I've seen Iowa State play this year so I don't know how common that type of performance is for him but he was outstanding in that game.

yep...that kid caught my eye...i wonder if he'll be invited to the senior bowl week given a bunch of guys will likely pass like always...i'd like to see him in those one on one wr/db drills in press etc and see what kind of feet and hips he has out of his pedal etc...does he put his foot in the ground and burst out etc

ckparrothead
01-04-2012, 02:32 AM
Leonard Johnson played well in that game but I felt like his performance is a little bit overrated. The real performers in that game were in my opinion linebackers Jake Knott and A.J. Klein, and safety Jacques Washington. Leonard Johnson did do well, he was one of the four guys on the defense that made an impact in that game...but he really wasn't the only one. In particular the job that Jake Knott did in man coverage on Justin Blackmon over the middle on the clinching interception in overtime...was incredible. Yes, that ball had been ever so slightly tipped at the line and slowed the speed of the pass down, but Knott was blanketing Blackmon as he crossed the middle, and it was Knott that closed on the ball, tipped it up and created the interception. And there were quite a few instances where A.J. Klein had used his film study to predict what the Cowboys were going to do, and then disguised his intentions to bait Weeden into something that he was ready for. Superb all around effort by those players.

insom187
01-04-2012, 03:42 AM
I don't see Blackmon having any issues adjusting at the next level as his current strength along with his intense work ethic will give him an edge off the line. Although not super tall he goes after the ball and often gets it at its highest point. He's fearless over the middle and isnt afraid of contact after the catch either. I can see the T.O. comparrisons but any time you can get a uber-talented WR who also is a high character guy thats an awesome combo.

Harry_Bagpipe
01-04-2012, 12:24 PM
Unfortunately this is one of those years were the safety class(specifically free safety) is not especially strong. With all the debate with who to take with our first pick it sucks that there isnt an Eric berry or an earl Thomas coming out. It also seems that it's more strong safety top heavy.

So I'll bring up trumaine Johnson CB. Montana

Knocks: Obviously he comes from a small school whose best competition this year was Tennessee. He got injured toward the end of the year but the biggest red flag was when he got tasered back in October for disorderly conduct. There also might be issues in terms of consistency in his play. Think the combine is going to be very important for him but he might be a good value pick if he falls. He also might be able to transition to FS.