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View Full Version : The Case for Brandon Weeden



steviey013
01-05-2012, 02:09 AM
Ok, he's 28 years old. So what. Matt Flynn is 26. We aren't getting Robert Griffin. Here are some reasons to draft Brandon early in the second round.
1. Very accurate passer with a nice gun. Threw for over 4200 yds last season
2. 6'4" 226 lbs - Robert Griffin is 6'1" / Matt Flynn is 6'2"
3. Mature and experienced athlete who could be our starter for 10 years.
4. We don't have to sell the farm to get him and he allows us to draft BPA in the 1st round.

Some realistic picks for us in round 1 are Trent Richardson, Quinton Coples, Micheal Floyd, Morris Claiborne...I cannot see us reaching for Landry Jones or Tannehill.
If we pick him in the 2nd round then I can overlook the age factor and he can push or start over Matt Moore in year one.

agent cooper
01-05-2012, 02:14 AM
I agree. If you think he is an elite QB, then draft him and get a good 5-8 years of elite play out of him. That is a long time to have the most important position covered. It also buys you time to get a replacement ready for him on down the line. I think the age thing is overblown. If he is elite, get him.

dlockz
01-05-2012, 02:14 AM
Ok, he's 28 years old. So what. Matt Flynn is 26. We aren't getting Robert Griffin. Here are some reasons to draft Brandon early in the second round.
1. Very accurate passer with a nice gun. Threw for over 4200 yds last season
2. 6'4" 226 lbs - Robert Griffin is 6'1" / Matt Flynn is 6'2"
3. Mature and experienced athlete who could be our starter for 10 years.
4. We don't have to sell the farm to get him and he allows us to draft BPA in the 1st round.

Some realistic picks for us in round 1 are Trent Richardson, Quinton Coples, Micheal Floyd, Morris Claiborne...I cannot see us reaching for Landry Jones or Tannehill.
If we pick him in the 2nd round then I can overlook the age factor and he can push or start over Matt Moore in year one.

Nobody is drafting Weeden in the second round write it down

miamb113
01-05-2012, 02:16 AM
Landry Jones is staying in school and have you not been watching the dolphins for the past ten years?? We have BEEN drafting qbs in the second round and giving up second round picks for back up qbs that's why we haven't been the slightest bit successful and frankly I'm sick of it. We need to draft a qb high and that includes trading the farm to get one. Good qbs don't last long so I say we pick our guy and go get him. I would throw everything we got at the colts honestly luck is going to be a stud.

Mogwai
01-05-2012, 02:33 AM
Nobody is drafting Weeden in the second round write it downAgreed. College is a bubble children play in. You can't overlook Weeden's age. Every QB who has made it in the NFL at an advanced age was out in reality for several years before making it. I think teams realize a developmental point is lost with older QB prospects. I see him going 3rd or later.

WeVie
01-05-2012, 02:33 AM
I like the idea of getting him if noting could be worked out to get one of the other two. Some people in the media say that he would go much higher if not for his age.

JCane
01-05-2012, 02:36 AM
Nobody is drafting Weeden in the second round write it down

If a team like the Jets are ready to move on from Mark Sanchez, I could easily see them reaching for a guy like Weeden in a QB league.

rent this space
01-05-2012, 02:37 AM
Nobody is drafting Weeden in the second round write it downare you saying he will go sooner or later than the 2nd? I was thinking the 2nd sounds about right. At 28, he should go later but they always overvalue QBs

dlockz
01-05-2012, 02:39 AM
If a team like the Jets are ready to move on from Mark Sanchez, I could easily see them reaching for a guy like Weeden in a QB league.

I guess people forget who Chris Weinke was. he was damn good probably every bit as good or better than Weeden and he was drafted in 4th round. The age will hurt his draft and you can also write down the jets wont be drafting qb high

JCane
01-05-2012, 02:39 AM
are you saying he will go sooner or later than the 2nd? I was thinking the 2nd sounds about right. At 28, he should go later but they always overvalue QBs

I know you aren't grouping the Dolphins in with "they."

:lol:

dlockz
01-05-2012, 02:40 AM
are you saying he will go sooner or later than the 2nd? I was thinking the 2nd sounds about right. At 28, he should go later but they always overvalue QBs

At 28 he will go no earlier than 3rd round his age makes him a huge risk

JCane
01-05-2012, 02:42 AM
I guess people forget who Chris Weinke was. he was damn good probably every bit as good or better than Weeden and he was drafted in 4th round. The age will hurt his draft and you can also write down the jets wont be drafting qb high

I get that. But this league is different now. The QB is so valuable and the league is designed to benefit the QB position. It's much easier today for a college QB to transition to the league and be impactful. The Jets have a lot more pieces than Carolina did when they took Weinke. Age will certainly hurt his draft stock and the OP mentioning that Flynn is 26 is irrelevant. You can get a younger Flynn off the market on the cheap. If you take Weeden you're having to spend a valuable draft pick.

steviey013
01-05-2012, 02:44 AM
I guess people forget who Chris Weinke was. he was damn good probably every bit as good or better than Weeden and he was drafted in 4th round. The age will hurt his draft and you can also write down the jets wont be drafting qb high

I don't think you can compare Weinke's noodle arm with Weeden's gun. He has a fastball and put it on national display at the Fiesta Bowl.

dlockz
01-05-2012, 02:44 AM
I get that. But this league is different now. The QB is so valuable and the league is designed to benefit the QB position. It's much easier today for a college QB to transition to the league and be impactful. The Jets have a lot more pieces than Carolina did when they took Weinke. Age will certainly hurt his draft stock and the OP mentioning that Flynn is 26 is irrelevant. You can get a younger Flynn off the market on the cheap. If you take Weeden you're having to spend a valuable draft pick.

age esp at qb hurts draft stock esp in todays nfl

JCane
01-05-2012, 02:46 AM
age esp at qb hurts draft stock esp in todays nfl

In no way am I saying draft Weeden in the first or second round lol. I don't want Weeden because of his age. It's very risky IMO.

But a team like the Jets who take a lot of risks...wouldn't surprise me one bit.

dlockz
01-05-2012, 02:50 AM
In no way am I saying draft Weeden in the first or second round lol. I don't want Weeden because of his age. It's very risky IMO.

But a team like the Jets who take a lot of risks...wouldn't surprise me one bit.

we take more risks in draft than they do
pat white, hartline,misi,murphy,

Valandui
01-05-2012, 02:53 AM
I guess people forget who Chris Weinke was. he was damn good probably every bit as good or better than Weeden and he was drafted in 4th round. The age will hurt his draft and you can also write down the jets wont be drafting qb high
I guess they forget who Roger Staubach and Warren Moon were too.

Mogwai
01-05-2012, 02:54 AM
we take more risks in draft than they do
pat white, hartline,misi,murphy,
Terrible choices aren't risks man. Taking Sanchez in the top 10 was a risk (which delightfully turned into a flop). Phins make bad choices, but no team that takes a C at 15 should ever be considered risky.

dlockz
01-05-2012, 02:57 AM
I don't think you can compare Weinke's noodle arm with Weeden's gun. He has a fastball and put it on national display at the Fiesta Bowl.



was talking overall talent and coming out of college nobody was saying Weinke had a weak arm. Believe me when i say it I have paid attention to the draft as well as any on here and and Weeden will go earliest in third round

dlockz
01-05-2012, 03:01 AM
Terrible choices aren't risks man. Taking Sanchez in the top 10 was a risk (which delightfully turned into a flop). Phins make bad choices, but no team that takes a C at 15 should ever be considered risky.

Pat White huge risk we already had a young qb and we drafted way too high worst draft choice ever, Hartline much lower rated we took him much earlier than expected has been a solid player but huge risk. Murphy way overdrafted him so quite risky. Wilson out of montanna although a late pick still a risk on a guy who was never really a prospect even before he got in trouble, pleasent suprise probably a solid special teams and dime player for a while. We play it safe when we shoudnt and take unecessary risks like trading up to get Thomas with some good backs still on board while passing up the more logical risk of trading up for mallet.

JCane
01-05-2012, 03:03 AM
we take more risks in draft than they do
pat white, hartline,misi,murphy,

Those are more dumb decisions than risks. No one ever looked at Pat White, Brian Hartline, etc., and said this dude could be a home run.

Weeden could be. And the Jets are more likely to gamble and take a risk on a QB home run than we are. They did it with Mark Sanchez. Dolphins are drafting scared.

steviey013
01-05-2012, 03:08 AM
Maybe we trade down a few spots in the 2nd and take him near the bottom of the round. If we wait till the 3rd I bet he's gone.

dlockz
01-05-2012, 03:09 AM
Pat White huge risk we already had a young qb and we drafted way too high worst draft choice ever, Hartline much lower rated we took him much earlier than expected has been a solid player but huge risk. Murphy way overdrafted him so quite risky. Wilson out of montanna although a late pick still a risk on a guy who was never really a prospect even before he got in trouble, pleasent suprise probably a solid special teams and dime player for a while. We play it safe when we shoudnt and take unecessary risks like trading up to get Thomas with some good backs still on board while passing up the more logical risk of trading up for mallet.

even though we as dolphin fans want to call Sanchez a flop, top this point he is not . he has had some bad moments but he is a young qb that is a good leader and has played well at times.He is still a very young guy 25 and has the ability to get better. There is no doubt in NY that he is their starter next year unlike us not knowing from year to year what to do at qb. Is he a superstar hell no at this point but he is far from a flop. How many times has been benched or lost his starting job. Henne so far can be considered a flop and Moore flopped in Carolina although he seems quite revitalized at this moment here but he will have to produce over a full season for anyone to be a believer. i think people assume all qb;s come in from day one and play lights out because some have done it but not every qb is given three years to sit and learn like Rodgers. if rodgers had played from day one who knows what the outcome would have been

Wouldnt let me edit for some reason

dlockz
01-05-2012, 03:13 AM
Maybe we trade down a few spots in the 2nd and take him near the bottom of the round. If we wait till the 3rd I bet he's gone.

Oh well I mean do you really want to spend a second round pick on a qb that will be 29 around week 5 of next year. hell No. i dont mind drafting Weeden Im all for giving a guy a chance but wasting a second round pick on a way overaged qb prospect is beyond a bad idea.

Mogwai
01-05-2012, 03:16 AM
Pat White huge risk we already had a young qb and we drafted way too high worst draft choice ever, Hartline much lower rated we took him much earlier than expected has been a solid player but huge risk. Murphy way overdrafted him so quite risky. Wilson out of montanna although a late pick still a risk on a guy who was never really a prospect even before he got in trouble, pleasent suprise probably a solid special teams and dime player for a while. We play it safe when we shoudnt and take unecessary risks like trading up to get Thomas with some good backs still on board while passing up the more logical risk of trading up for mallet.I guess it depends on your definition of risk. Pat White was such a stupid choice and the probability of success so low it's like jumping out of a plane without a parachute. It's pretty ****ing risky. Moving up to take DT with Murray on the board. It's stupid first of all. Secondly, RB was a need and DT was rated in the 2nd-3rd rounds. Mallett would have been riskier. It's a riskier position and the fact that everyone else had passed on him would have demanded courage to take him.

JCane
01-05-2012, 03:20 AM
we drafted way too high worst draft choice ever

Exactly. That's why Pat White wasn't a risk. We made that pick and we all just kinda "WTF?!"

Everyone knew that was an awful pick. Had we got him in the 5th round...yeah, that's a risk worth taking. In the second round that's nothing more than a waste of a pick.

dlockz
01-05-2012, 03:49 AM
Exactly. That's why Pat White wasn't a risk. We made that pick and we all just kinda "WTF?!"

Everyone knew that was an awful pick. Had we got him in the 5th round...yeah, that's a risk worth taking. In the second round that's nothing more than a waste of a pick.

whats funny is so many absolve Ireland for the pick because Parcells said it was his pick but I have read no where that Ireland did not recommend the guy or didnt agree with the pick

JCane
01-05-2012, 03:53 AM
whats funny is so many absolve Ireland for the pick because Parcells said it was his pick but I have read no where that Ireland did not recommend the guy or didnt agree with the pick

People blame everyone because they really know who to blame. When Parcells was here, Ireland was a puppet and Tony couldn't develop the talent. Ireland had a pretty good draft last year but with Parcells gone, people gotta blame someone for those bad drafts when Parcells was here.

dlockz
01-05-2012, 03:57 AM
People blame everyone because they really know who to blame. When Parcells was here, Ireland was a puppet and Tony couldn't develop the talent. Ireland had a pretty good draft last year but with Parcells gone, people gotta blame someone for those bad drafts when Parcells was here.

Puppet or not he is the one that advises Parcells on prospects. I think its just convenient to say well Parcells was to blame for all the bad picks but now we are ok , or Sparano is no longer here so the rest of the staff is just fine he is the sole reasons for three losing seasons, or Henne is no longer here, moore is good enough to take us to the playoffs

Kistner10
01-05-2012, 06:17 AM
I don't want Brandon Weeden at all.

The OP cited his accuracy, probably in large part to his high completion percentage, but I think that is misleading. If you watch his games than you see he doesn't have the greatest ball placement in the world and I think that will hurt him a lot when he gets out of a system offense and has smaller windows to throw into.

JCane
01-05-2012, 08:04 AM
Puppet or not he is the one that advises Parcells on prospects. I think its just convenient to say well Parcells was to blame for all the bad picks but now we are ok , or Sparano is no longer here so the rest of the staff is just fine he is the sole reasons for three losing seasons, or Henne is no longer here, moore is good enough to take us to the playoffs

Eh, I meant to say people blame everyone because they DON'T know who to blame. Half asleep I guess.

But that's the problem. When Parcells was here, people said Ireland was a puppet. Then when Parcells' picks began flopping the room was split with Parcells supporters who said Tony couldn't develop what Parcells was giving us and then others just wanted Parcells fired. Parcells leaves and then people target Ireland even though Ireland's picks by himself were better than what Parcells gave. People just want to blame someone and they don't know enough about anything to really blame anyone. Parcells' failures shouldn't come as a surprise after what he was doing in Dallas. He's just too old fashioned and he's set in his ways and he refuses to adapt to the changes in today's NFL and more importantly today's player. I'm willing to give Ireland one more draft. I don't think he's as bad as what people make him out to be.

jim1
01-05-2012, 09:33 AM
If a team like the Jets are ready to move on from Mark Sanchez, I could easily see them reaching for a guy like Weeden in a QB league.

Exactly. With Sanchez faltering, Weeden is a prime candidate to replace him, plug and play. Rex Ryan wants to win now- Weeden's age won't deter him if Ryan feels that he's the right QB to step in.

betadog
01-05-2012, 10:01 AM
Nobody is drafting Weeden in the second round write it down

Completely agree with you! Too much of a reach for this kid he's not going anywhere until the forth at best...

Zounds
01-05-2012, 10:37 AM
I would draft Weeden in the 3rd round if he's there if we didnt get a QB in the 1st or 2nd round. No ealier than the 3rd though.

3rdandinches
01-05-2012, 10:59 AM
How can M.Sanchez not be considered a flop? In his third year his team is getting worse not better and as a QB his decision making has not improved one bit. He was a top five pick that blows junks unless he has a great defense and a great oline with a top running game. What QB in the league can't win with that???? Dilfer and Johnson won Superbowls with that and aren't half the QB M.Sanchez is suppose to be!

You can't compared Weeden to older QB's of the past that were drafted in later rounds. They were drafted in later rounds because their value dropped in a league that thought rookie QB's needed to sit for 3 years before playing. We are now in an era of rookie QB's sitting for 1/2 a season before starting let alone starting right off the bat not. This makes the value of an older rookie QB to still be high. Weeden will get selected in the bottom end of the first or the top of the 2nd because of the talent he is.

rent this space
01-05-2012, 05:00 PM
The 3rd-4th is where he should go, I just think someone will reach

rent this space
01-05-2012, 05:01 PM
I know you aren't grouping the Dolphins in with "they."

:lol:lol, not the Dolphins of late, that is for sure

retarmyfinfan
01-05-2012, 06:53 PM
I agree. If you think he is an elite QB, then draft him and get a good 5-8 years of elite play out of him. That is a long time to have the most important position covered. It also buys you time to get a replacement ready for him on down the line. I think the age thing is overblown. If he is elite, get him.

I agree. 5-8 years of good QB play is more then we had since 1999.

NorFlaFin
01-05-2012, 11:38 PM
Weinke had arm troubles at FSU. He sat out a couple of practices with a "dead arm". Coupled with his infamous temper nets a 4th round pick.


Weeden has zero in common with Weinke

jim1
01-06-2012, 09:20 AM
I don't want Brandon Weeden at all.

The OP cited his accuracy, probably in large part to his high completion percentage, but I think that is misleading. If you watch his games than you see he doesn't have the greatest ball placement in the world and I think that will hurt him a lot when he gets out of a system offense and has smaller windows to throw into.

It's not misleading. Weeden is extremely accurate, I don't know of a college QB who is more so. He was off with a few throws against Stanford, but overall Weeden has been tremendously accuracte all year.

Zounds
01-06-2012, 10:19 AM
The 3rd-4th is where he should go, I just think someone will reach

We saw Parcells reach on people like Pat White, but my gut tells me that Ireland is not a reacher.

rent this space
01-06-2012, 03:03 PM
Ireland did pretty good last year. Thomas was disappointing but he got good players in good spots. grabbing Moore in free agency turned out great, let's hope he can do the same with a QB in the draft

Aqua and Orange
01-06-2012, 03:35 PM
Agree that Weeden will go 3rd round or later. His age is a huge problem that nothing can erase.

I think the hot name QB will be Tannehill. Could see him moving up to the first round with a solid combine.

Kistner10
01-06-2012, 07:09 PM
Osweiler just declared today. I'm sure that hurts Weeden.

Teams will take a raw QB with huge upside over a 29 year old QB almost everytime.

tylerdolphin
01-06-2012, 09:20 PM
Those are more dumb decisions than risks. No one ever looked at Pat White, Brian Hartline, etc., and said this dude could be a home run.

Weeden could be. And the Jets are more likely to gamble and take a risk on a QB home run than we are. They did it with Mark Sanchez. Dolphins are drafting scared.

Well, Hartline ended up being a pretty good player for a 4th rounder, so its hard to call that a dumb decision. Solid player that can start if need be...cant expect much more from those rounds.

Pat White though...good God.

ckparrothead
01-08-2012, 02:54 AM
You know, I never even thought about it this way before. I always call Brandon Weeden The Natural or Roy Hobbs. That's because of the way he plays football.

But I was just thinking that it applies in another way. This is a guy that gets drafted in the 2nd round of the MLB Draft out of high school, makes a million or two as a baseball player. Then he decides to walk-on at a prestigious BCS program as a football player, and eventually he's starting, setting every record there is at the school, competing for a championship, etc. He'll make millions in football.

And I've never thought much about it but this year he also successfully made Oklahoma State's golf team as a walk-on. I just looked it up, and Oklahoma State's 12 man golf team is ranked 2nd in the country. And he just walked on, just cuz he kind of likes it. He's got a 2 or 3 handicap when he gets things going.

This is one of those annoying guys that can have never played foosball a day in his life, you teach him how to play, and a week later he's winning thousand dollar foosball tourneys. Some day we're going to be watching him throwing touchdown passes for an NFL team and a lot of people are going to be asking themselves, how did we manage to overthink it on a guy THIS good?

Valandui
01-08-2012, 01:17 PM
You know, I never even thought about it this way before. I always call Brandon Weeden The Natural or Roy Hobbs. That's because of the way he plays football.

But I was just thinking that it applies in another way. This is a guy that gets drafted in the 2nd round of the MLB Draft out of high school, makes a million or two as a baseball player. Then he decides to walk-on at a prestigious BCS program as a football player, and eventually he's starting, setting every record there is at the school, competing for a championship, etc. He'll make millions in football.

And I've never thought much about it but this year he also successfully made Oklahoma State's golf team as a walk-on. I just looked it up, and Oklahoma State's 12 man golf team is ranked 2nd in the country. And he just walked on, just cuz he kind of likes it. He's got a 2 or 3 handicap when he gets things going.

This is one of those annoying guys that can have never played foosball a day in his life, you teach him how to play, and a week later he's winning thousand dollar foosball tourneys. Some day we're going to be watching him throwing touchdown passes for an NFL team and a lot of people are going to be asking themselves, how did we manage to overthink it on a guy THIS good?

You know as well as I do that his age eliminates him from Jeff Ireland's prototype, so we'll pass on another elite level QB.

TedSlimmJr
01-08-2012, 02:15 PM
Sam Bradford is also a single digit handicap if I'm not mistaken.

PJack
01-08-2012, 02:36 PM
Sam Bradford is also a single digit handicap if I'm not mistaken.

Tony Romo is pretty much a scratch golfer. Tom Brady, Brees, Elway, Favre, Marino are single digits. I guess that's a good sign except....Trent Dilfer is also a scratch golfer. I'm about a plus 20. Maybe Henne and I can hit the links then.

twix2500
01-08-2012, 07:37 PM
Brandon Weeden is too old, reached his ceiling in college. I will throw up if we drafted him earlier than the 5th round. There are only three QBs that I want and thats Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin and Ryan Tannehill, if we cant get one of these three than dont waste a draft pick just drafting any old QB. There might be a hidden gem in this draft no one is talking about, but other than the top three i mention I am not interested.

Valandui
01-08-2012, 07:54 PM
Brandon Weeden is too old, reached his ceiling in college. I will throw up if we drafted him earlier than the 5th round. There are only three QBs that I want and thats Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin and Ryan Tannehill, if we cant get one of these three than dont waste a draft pick just drafting any old QB. There might be a hidden gem in this draft no one is talking about, but other than the top three i mention I am not interested.
Aaron Rodgers is the same age. Has he reached his ceiling yet? He seems to get better every year.

Dogbone34
01-08-2012, 07:55 PM
brandon weeden should be very high miami's draft board

everyone in the league is a hit away from retirement

weeden is talent now

Zounds
01-08-2012, 10:14 PM
You know as well as I do that his age eliminates him from Jeff Ireland's prototype, so we'll pass on another elite level QB.

Irelands prototype is a player that comes cheap or is a draft bargain. If Weedon make sit to the 3rd round, I could see Ireland thinking he found a bargain.

hooshoops
01-09-2012, 12:12 AM
Aaron Rodgers is the same age. Has he reached his ceiling yet? He seems to get better every year.

please don't compare aaron rodgers and brandon weeden...i like you val and thats horse ****

ChambersWI
01-09-2012, 12:27 AM
Weeden's actually 2 months older than Rodgers and Rodgers has been a starter for 4 seasons now. My problem is, if you take Weeden and he doesn't beat out Matt Moore (whose also younger than him) that's pretty much it

ckparrothead
01-09-2012, 12:32 AM
Weeden's actually 2 months older than Rodgers and Rodgers has been a starter for 4 seasons now. My problem is, if you take Weeden and he doesn't beat out Matt Moore (whose also younger than him) that's pretty much it

I don't see why.

hooshoops
01-09-2012, 12:33 AM
i'd be lookin at tyler wilson with my 2nd round pick should he get there...not weeden

Valandui
01-09-2012, 12:40 AM
please don't compare aaron rodgers and brandon weeden...i like you val and thats horse ****
I agree and I'm honestly not trying to make that comparison. I just meant that if Rodgers is still getting better at the same age as Weeden, can you honestly say that Weeden has already hit his ceiling?

hooshoops
01-09-2012, 12:47 AM
I agree and I'm honestly not trying to make that comparison. I just meant that if Rodgers is still getting better at the same age as Weeden, can you honestly say that Weeden has already hit his ceiling?

you're talking about a guy who's been in the nfl for what 5 years...6 maybe...i don't see how anyone can compare a kid who's done it as this level to a guy who no matter what anyone else wants you to believe etc has been playing against kids 5 years or more younger than him...its just not the same damn thing...

all i know is i'm lookin for more tyler wilson tape...i saw some things on a kid much younger i really liked in the bowl game...and some guys here can disagree with me all day long and thats fine but i see spotty accuracy and ball placement with weeden on throws i think he should make all the time...the kind of stuff i see with matt moore...

frankly i think unless something changes on the tape i do look at with wilson he's a better prospect and much younger

Valandui
01-09-2012, 12:54 AM
you're talking about a guy who's been in the nfl for what 5 years...6 maybe...i don't see how anyone can compare a kid who's done it as this level to a guy who no matter what anyone else wants you to believe etc has been playing against kids 5 years or more younger than him...its just not the same damn thing...

all i know is i'm lookin for more tyler wilson tape...i saw some things on a kid much younger i really liked in the bowl game...and some guys here can disagree with me all day long and thats fine but i see spotty accuracy and ball placement with weeden on throws i think he should make all the time...the kind of stuff i see with matt moore...

frankly i think unless something changes on the tape i do look at with wilson he's a better prospect and much younger
I was just trying to say that Weeden can still get better at his age. He hasn't topped out already like the guy was trying to say.

I do like Tyler Wilson as well, though.

hooshoops
01-09-2012, 10:13 AM
I was just trying to say that Weeden can still get better at his age. He hasn't topped out already like the guy was trying to say.

I do like Tyler Wilson as well, though.

maybe...i really don't know how to answer that...i definitely think he's peaked physically but the physical tools are good enough...the other parts of his game i don't know...being that much older than everyone else makes it much harder for me to say

BlueFin
01-09-2012, 03:42 PM
I like Tannehill...I think he will end up rising up the boards the way quarterbacks frequently do.

RealDriscoll
01-09-2012, 04:34 PM
I don't think there is a question that if you put all of those factors such as age aside Brandon Weeden is the 3rd best quarterback in this draft and is a far batter prospect than Nick Foles of Arizona or Ryan Tannehill of Texas A&M. What makes it tough to draft Weeden in the first two rounds of the draft is

*His NFL learning curve needs to be significantly shorter than any other player in the draft. It's well documented that Weeden chased his baseball dreams and will be 29 years old when the 2012 NFL Draft rolls around. Being 29 years old he will need start in his rookie or soph season and at that point you maybe only get 5-6 years out of him.

The positive outweights the negative IMO as Weeden is very polished and what I like most about Weeden is the command he has for the huddle and for the offense. It will be interesting to see where he gets drafted and how much of a factor his age will be in this process.

The thing is you have to say can this kid

ckparrothead
01-09-2012, 05:38 PM
Brandon Weeden will be the same age in Week 1 of the 2012 NFL season that Warren Moon was in Week 1 of his first NFL season: 28 years old.

dolfan22
01-09-2012, 05:54 PM
Also with 5 less professional championship titles to his resume though ...

finomenal
01-09-2012, 06:22 PM
Agree that Weeden will go 3rd round or later. His age is a huge problem that nothing can erase.

I think the hot name QB will be Tannehill. Could see him moving up to the first round with a solid combine.

Scarcity at the QB position coupled with recent rule changes favoring the passing game will erase some of it imo.

finomenal
01-09-2012, 06:38 PM
Ok, he's 28 years old. So what. Matt Flynn is 26. We aren't getting Robert Griffin. Here are some reasons to draft Brandon early in the second round.
1. Very accurate passer with a nice gun. Threw for over 4200 yds last season
2. 6'4" 226 lbs - Robert Griffin is 6'1" / Matt Flynn is 6'2"
3. Mature and experienced athlete who could be our starter for 10 years.
4. We don't have to sell the farm to get him and he allows us to draft BPA in the 1st round.

Some realistic picks for us in round 1 are Trent Richardson, Quinton Coples, Micheal Floyd, Morris Claiborne...I cannot see us reaching for Landry Jones or Tannehill.
If we pick him in the 2nd round then I can overlook the age factor and he can push or start over Matt Moore in year one.

If this thread was started when we were 0-7, I'd say hell no; however, the late season surge proves what a lot of us thought before the season started, which is the Dolphins aren't a terrible team. Plug in good to great QB play along with another receiving TE and some OL help, and this team makes the playoffs next season. Would I prefer a 22 year old stud? Sure. I'd like to sleep on a million dollars, too. Good QBs are rare so you get what you can, age be damned.

I'm all in on Weeden.

finomenal
01-09-2012, 06:42 PM
At 28 he will go no earlier than 3rd round his age makes him a huge risk

Say what? :)

Sounds like the makings of a friendly wager. Are you down?

insom187
01-10-2012, 02:50 AM
In all honesty what is the differnece between Wheedon and John Beck when he was drafted? Played in a big scoring offense (without anything close to Justin Blackmon), tall with has a strong arm, projected as a 2nd round pick as well as being 28 going into his first season. Beck just didnt work so why jump on Wheedon in a heartbeat? Im honestly looking for what else Wheedon brings to the table, not bashing the guy lol.

ckparrothead
01-10-2012, 12:37 PM
In all honesty what is the differnece between Wheedon and John Beck when he was drafted? Played in a big scoring offense (without anything close to Justin Blackmon), tall with has a strong arm, projected as a 2nd round pick as well as being 28 going into his first season. Beck just didnt work so why jump on Wheedon in a heartbeat? Im honestly looking for what else Wheedon brings to the table, not bashing the guy lol.

I think you have to watch the two play football before you can compare them.

J. David Wannyheimer
01-10-2012, 02:06 PM
After watching Weeden's bowl performance, I almost want to say I'm afraid he won't even be there when we pick in the second round.

NorFlaFin
01-10-2012, 02:09 PM
Okay what made the Vikings reach for Ponder was his advanced development in fact the term "Pro Ready" (Sporting News - I think) was plastered on Doak Campbell Stadium.

Is Weeden "Pro Ready?"

ckparrothead
01-10-2012, 02:40 PM
After watching Weeden's bowl performance, I almost want to say I'm afraid he won't even be there when we pick in the second round.

Almost afraid? I think it's 50/50 at best, personally.

Ryan Tannehill just dropped out of the Senior Bowl with a serious foot injury he suffered last week while training. That means Brandon Weeden will be far and away the best QB at the Senior Bowl. He was already going to be the best but now he'll be head and shoulders the best.

J. David Wannyheimer
01-10-2012, 06:19 PM
Almost afraid? I think it's 50/50 at best, personally.

Ryan Tannehill just dropped out of the Senior Bowl with a serious foot injury he suffered last week while training. That means Brandon Weeden will be far and away the best QB at the Senior Bowl. He was already going to be the best but now he'll be head and shoulders the best.

Personally, I think we should draft him with the 9th pick, but I'm not an NFL personnel guy, so I can't really say how much being 29 years old hurts his draft value. With guys playing into their late thirties these days, you're looking at what, a ten year career for Weeden if he stays healthy? I'd take that in a heartbeat if he is as good in the pros as it looks like he can be.

ckparrothead
01-10-2012, 06:55 PM
People just can't get his age right, lol.

For the record he turned 28 years old on October 14th, 2011. He will be be 28 years old until approximately Week 6 of the 2012 NFL season. He's old enough as it is, we don't need to short change the man. :)

I did studies of 20+ Pro Bowl QBs throughout NFL history whose starting careers did not begin until their late 20's. Average age of the group was 28 years old, like Weeden himself. The average number of starts was about 8 seasons' worth of games started. These were all QBs that had been to at least one Pro Bowl. The reason I did that? Because you have to remember that the very FIRST reason you're not going to start games in the NFL, is because you're not very good! So even the group I tallied, some of them only made one Pro Bowl and weren't very good generally in their careers, and so you can blame their lack of starts not on a lack of longevity, but on a lack of talent. If you limited it to the players that had been to at least 2 Pro Bowls, then the average number of starts jumped up to about 9 or 10 seasons' worth of starts. Hell, Warren Moon was the same exact age Brandon Weeden will be, when Warren finally got into the NFL...and he ended up playing for 15 years.

One thing I'll say about the above study, the quarterbacks studied included many that played before the NFL became such a powder puff league at the QB position. Now, QBs are protected to an unbelievable extent. And just as importantly, their wide receivers are protected, which allows these QBs to use the middle of the field which is less physically demanding. So you take the above study which shows OBJECTIVELY and in an EVIDENCE-BASED way that Brandon Weeden's career longevity estimate should be about 8 years...and honestly that might need to be bumped up.

But the next big question on everyone's minds is, yeah so he can play 8 years, what good is that if he's still learning for 4 or 5 of those years? The answer to this is to once again, do your homework. Study the learning curves of NFL quarterbacks, especially in the last decade. If you did that, you would notice that yearly passer ratings of quarterbacks that start in their first and second seasons in the pros, are on average IDENTICAL to their career ratings. In other words, by their second seasons, they're already playing about as effectively as they're going to play in their careers. That's not to say they won't keep learning. They will of course keep learning beyond their second year in the pros. But it is to say that IF they are destined to be championship caliber QBs, then they are far more likely than not to be championship viable by their second year in the league, even though they will keep learning. Tom Brady, Dan Marino and Ben Roethlisberger kept learning beyond their second years in the league, they kept growing, but all went to the Super Bowl in their second seasons. Amongst QBs that end up really good, franchise caliber players, half or more end up showing that talent already just in their rookie year.

So you have a career longevity estimate of 8.0 to 9.0 years, and a learning curve estimate of 0.5 to 1.5 years. Again, this is objective, evidence-based stuff. To me you're looking at 6 to 8 quality years out of the guy, as a defensible, objective, evidence-based, expected value.

And so then you ask yourself. Let's say you had a chance to trade for Tom Brady. But here's the caveat: you only get him for 1 year. He's in his prime, he's got no injuries, but he's announced that he'll retire after this year and you have no hope of convincing him otherwise. What would you pay? Say you're a team that is built fairly well and you think you're a QB away from competing for a championship. A 3rd round pick? A 2nd round pick?

Given the 7 year expected estimate for Weeden's career, NET of his expected learning curve, if you wouldn't pay a 2nd-3rd round pick for Brandon, then you're saying you think there is a less than a 1 in 7 chance that Weeden will be as effective in his career as a 34 year old Tom Brady.

And I just don't see that.

Locke
01-10-2012, 07:12 PM
People just can't get his age right, lol.

For the record he turned 28 years old on October 14th, 2011. He will be be 28 years old until approximately Week 6 of the 2012 NFL season. He's old enough as it is, we don't need to short change the man. :)

I did studies of 20+ Pro Bowl QBs throughout NFL history whose starting careers did not begin until their late 20's. Average age of the group was 28 years old, like Weeden himself. The average number of starts was about 8 seasons' worth of games started. These were all QBs that had been to at least one Pro Bowl. The reason I did that? Because you have to remember that the very FIRST reason you're not going to start games in the NFL, is because you're not very good! So even the group I tallied, some of them only made one Pro Bowl and weren't very good generally in their careers, and so you can blame their lack of starts not on a lack of longevity, but on a lack of talent. If you limited it to the players that had been to at least 2 Pro Bowls, then the average number of starts jumped up to about 9 or 10 seasons' worth of starts. Hell, Warren Moon was the same exact age Brandon Weeden will be, when Warren finally got into the NFL...and he ended up playing for 15 years.

One thing I'll say about the above study, the quarterbacks studied included many that played before the NFL became such a powder puff league at the QB position. Now, QBs are protected to an unbelievable extent. And just as importantly, their wide receivers are protected, which allows these QBs to use the middle of the field which is less physically demanding. So you take the above study which shows OBJECTIVELY and in an EVIDENCE-BASED way that Brandon Weeden's career longevity estimate should be about 8 years...and honestly that might need to be bumped up.

But the next big question on everyone's minds is, yeah so he can play 8 years, what good is that if he's still learning for 4 or 5 of those years? The answer to this is to once again, do your homework. Study the learning curves of NFL quarterbacks, especially in the last decade. If you did that, you would notice that yearly passer ratings of quarterbacks that start in their first and second seasons in the pros, are on average IDENTICAL to their career ratings. In other words, by their second seasons, they're already playing about as effectively as they're going to play in their careers. That's not to say they won't keep learning. They will of course keep learning beyond their second year in the pros. But it is to say that IF they are destined to be championship caliber QBs, then they are far more likely than not to be championship viable by their second year in the league, even though they will keep learning. Tom Brady, Dan Marino and Ben Roethlisberger kept learning beyond their second years in the league, they kept growing, but all went to the Super Bowl in their second seasons. Amongst QBs that end up really good, franchise caliber players, half or more end up showing that talent already just in their rookie year.

So you have a career longevity estimate of 8.0 to 9.0 years, and a learning curve estimate of 0.5 to 1.5 years. Again, this is objective, evidence-based stuff. To me you're looking at 6 to 8 quality years out of the guy, as a defensible, objective, evidence-based, expected value.

And so then you ask yourself. Let's say you had a chance to trade for Tom Brady. But here's the caveat: you only get him for 1 year. He's in his prime, he's got no injuries, but he's announced that he'll retire after this year and you have no hope of convincing him otherwise. What would you pay? Say you're a team that is built fairly well and you think you're a QB away from competing for a championship. A 3rd round pick? A 2nd round pick?

Given the 7 year expected estimate for Weeden's career, NET of his expected learning curve, if you wouldn't pay a 2nd-3rd round pick for Brandon, then you're saying you think there is a less than a 1 in 7 chance that Weeden will be as effective in his career as a 34 year old Tom Brady.

And I just don't see that.

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/01/imagesqtbnANd9GcTfqRjhWe6ByzdxNLto3u6tdV-1.jpg

Kistner10
01-10-2012, 08:51 PM
People just can't get his age right, lol.

For the record he turned 28 years old on October 14th, 2011. He will be be 28 years old until approximately Week 6 of the 2012 NFL season. He's old enough as it is, we don't need to short change the man. :)

I did studies of 20+ Pro Bowl QBs throughout NFL history whose starting careers did not begin until their late 20's. Average age of the group was 28 years old, like Weeden himself. The average number of starts was about 8 seasons' worth of games started. These were all QBs that had been to at least one Pro Bowl. The reason I did that? Because you have to remember that the very FIRST reason you're not going to start games in the NFL, is because you're not very good! So even the group I tallied, some of them only made one Pro Bowl and weren't very good generally in their careers, and so you can blame their lack of starts not on a lack of longevity, but on a lack of talent. If you limited it to the players that had been to at least 2 Pro Bowls, then the average number of starts jumped up to about 9 or 10 seasons' worth of starts. Hell, Warren Moon was the same exact age Brandon Weeden will be, when Warren finally got into the NFL...and he ended up playing for 15 years.

One thing I'll say about the above study, the quarterbacks studied included many that played before the NFL became such a powder puff league at the QB position. Now, QBs are protected to an unbelievable extent. And just as importantly, their wide receivers are protected, which allows these QBs to use the middle of the field which is less physically demanding. So you take the above study which shows OBJECTIVELY and in an EVIDENCE-BASED way that Brandon Weeden's career longevity estimate should be about 8 years...and honestly that might need to be bumped up.

But the next big question on everyone's minds is, yeah so he can play 8 years, what good is that if he's still learning for 4 or 5 of those years? The answer to this is to once again, do your homework. Study the learning curves of NFL quarterbacks, especially in the last decade. If you did that, you would notice that yearly passer ratings of quarterbacks that start in their first and second seasons in the pros, are on average IDENTICAL to their career ratings. In other words, by their second seasons, they're already playing about as effectively as they're going to play in their careers. That's not to say they won't keep learning. They will of course keep learning beyond their second year in the pros. But it is to say that IF they are destined to be championship caliber QBs, then they are far more likely than not to be championship viable by their second year in the league, even though they will keep learning. Tom Brady, Dan Marino and Ben Roethlisberger kept learning beyond their second years in the league, they kept growing, but all went to the Super Bowl in their second seasons. Amongst QBs that end up really good, franchise caliber players, half or more end up showing that talent already just in their rookie year.

So you have a career longevity estimate of 8.0 to 9.0 years, and a learning curve estimate of 0.5 to 1.5 years. Again, this is objective, evidence-based stuff. To me you're looking at 6 to 8 quality years out of the guy, as a defensible, objective, evidence-based, expected value.

And so then you ask yourself. Let's say you had a chance to trade for Tom Brady. But here's the caveat: you only get him for 1 year. He's in his prime, he's got no injuries, but he's announced that he'll retire after this year and you have no hope of convincing him otherwise. What would you pay? Say you're a team that is built fairly well and you think you're a QB away from competing for a championship. A 3rd round pick? A 2nd round pick?

Given the 7 year expected estimate for Weeden's career, NET of his expected learning curve, if you wouldn't pay a 2nd-3rd round pick for Brandon, then you're saying you think there is a less than a 1 in 7 chance that Weeden will be as effective in his career as a 34 year old Tom Brady.

And I just don't see that.

I'm not worried about his age for the "how long will we get out of him" reason.

To me, the biggest worry is that because of his age that he has an advantage in the college game that won't translate to the next level. He is at his physical peak right now playing against young college kids. Most of those kids he's playing against aren't going to make it to the next level and the ones that will are no where near their physical primes.

Everyone said John Beck stood out on tape. That if he would've been a regular age QB prospect than he'd be projected to be drafted in first round. I hear a lot of the same things said with Weeden. I just think you're playing with a different animal when you have mature QB's playing college ball with a lot of young kids. I just think it's hard to translate what and how much of an advantage it really is.

I also don't like the fact that he played in a pure spread offense. His footwork/reads/going to progressions is all questionable based on the offense he's played in. He also didn't play too many elite defenses in the Big 12 and when he did, he really didn't stand out.

I see some good things with him too, but not enough that would make me want to take him.

I am VERY excited though to see how he turns out. There seems to be a lot of differing opinions on him on this board and it will be fun to see how his career progresses.

hooshoops
01-10-2012, 10:22 PM
People just can't get his age right, lol.

For the record he turned 28 years old on October 14th, 2011. He will be be 28 years old until approximately Week 6 of the 2012 NFL season. He's old enough as it is, we don't need to short change the man. :)

I did studies of 20+ Pro Bowl QBs throughout NFL history whose starting careers did not begin until their late 20's. Average age of the group was 28 years old, like Weeden himself. The average number of starts was about 8 seasons' worth of games started. These were all QBs that had been to at least one Pro Bowl. The reason I did that? Because you have to remember that the very FIRST reason you're not going to start games in the NFL, is because you're not very good! So even the group I tallied, some of them only made one Pro Bowl and weren't very good generally in their careers, and so you can blame their lack of starts not on a lack of longevity, but on a lack of talent. If you limited it to the players that had been to at least 2 Pro Bowls, then the average number of starts jumped up to about 9 or 10 seasons' worth of starts. Hell, Warren Moon was the same exact age Brandon Weeden will be, when Warren finally got into the NFL...and he ended up playing for 15 years.

One thing I'll say about the above study, the quarterbacks studied included many that played before the NFL became such a powder puff league at the QB position. Now, QBs are protected to an unbelievable extent. And just as importantly, their wide receivers are protected, which allows these QBs to use the middle of the field which is less physically demanding. So you take the above study which shows OBJECTIVELY and in an EVIDENCE-BASED way that Brandon Weeden's career longevity estimate should be about 8 years...and honestly that might need to be bumped up.

But the next big question on everyone's minds is, yeah so he can play 8 years, what good is that if he's still learning for 4 or 5 of those years? The answer to this is to once again, do your homework. Study the learning curves of NFL quarterbacks, especially in the last decade. If you did that, you would notice that yearly passer ratings of quarterbacks that start in their first and second seasons in the pros, are on average IDENTICAL to their career ratings. In other words, by their second seasons, they're already playing about as effectively as they're going to play in their careers. That's not to say they won't keep learning. They will of course keep learning beyond their second year in the pros. But it is to say that IF they are destined to be championship caliber QBs, then they are far more likely than not to be championship viable by their second year in the league, even though they will keep learning. Tom Brady, Dan Marino and Ben Roethlisberger kept learning beyond their second years in the league, they kept growing, but all went to the Super Bowl in their second seasons. Amongst QBs that end up really good, franchise caliber players, half or more end up showing that talent already just in their rookie year.

So you have a career longevity estimate of 8.0 to 9.0 years, and a learning curve estimate of 0.5 to 1.5 years. Again, this is objective, evidence-based stuff. To me you're looking at 6 to 8 quality years out of the guy, as a defensible, objective, evidence-based, expected value.

And so then you ask yourself. Let's say you had a chance to trade for Tom Brady. But here's the caveat: you only get him for 1 year. He's in his prime, he's got no injuries, but he's announced that he'll retire after this year and you have no hope of convincing him otherwise. What would you pay? Say you're a team that is built fairly well and you think you're a QB away from competing for a championship. A 3rd round pick? A 2nd round pick?

Given the 7 year expected estimate for Weeden's career, NET of his expected learning curve, if you wouldn't pay a 2nd-3rd round pick for Brandon, then you're saying you think there is a less than a 1 in 7 chance that Weeden will be as effective in his career as a 34 year old Tom Brady.

And I just don't see that.

put me down for preferring one year of a 34 year old gonna retire at the end of the year tom brady...

ckparrothead
01-10-2012, 11:55 PM
put me down for preferring one year of a 34 year old gonna retire at the end of the year tom brady...

That...wasn't the question.

ckparrothead
01-11-2012, 12:06 AM
I'm not worried about his age for the "how long will we get out of him" reason.

To me, the biggest worry is that because of his age that he has an advantage in the college game that won't translate to the next level. He is at his physical peak right now playing against young college kids. Most of those kids he's playing against aren't going to make it to the next level and the ones that will are no where near their physical primes.

Everyone said John Beck stood out on tape. That if he would've been a regular age QB prospect than he'd be projected to be drafted in first round. I hear a lot of the same things said with Weeden. I just think you're playing with a different animal when you have mature QB's playing college ball with a lot of young kids. I just think it's hard to translate what and how much of an advantage it really is.

I also don't like the fact that he played in a pure spread offense. His footwork/reads/going to progressions is all questionable based on the offense he's played in. He also didn't play too many elite defenses in the Big 12 and when he did, he really didn't stand out.

I see some good things with him too, but not enough that would make me want to take him.

I am VERY excited though to see how he turns out. There seems to be a lot of differing opinions on him on this board and it will be fun to see how his career progresses.

Some legit concerns in here. The offense doesn't have a history of producing good passers. Of course, neither did Jeff Tedford's offense. There's no escaping that the Big 12 has some crappy defenses. I'm not sure about the assertion that he didn't look any good against good defenses, I think he looked good generally speaking no matter who he played.

The concern I do NOT share with people is the one that says since he was 27 and 28 years old in 2010 and 2011, he should be dominating against "kids". I think this assumption is inappropriate for the quarterback position. If anything Brandon Weeden had a pretty strong disadvantage against those "kids" in that he took a 5 or 6 year hiatus from football and played baseball, then had to come back and totally RE-LEARN all these things he'd forgot. And that's not just from a mental standpoint, his body had to re-learn things that other guys around him that have been playing football continuously all could do in their sleep.

This is why you do NOT see many athletes take long breaks from their sport, come back, and get back on top like this. It's just not that easy. It's a story made for fiction.

Being at your "athletic peak" to me has a more physical connotation. But quarterback, especially quarterback the way he plays the game (as opposed to the way Robert Griffin plays the game), is not a physical position. It's a mental, fundamental, technique position. Yeah, you know what, he WOULD be at his peak at 28 years old, if he'd been playing the sport continuously like an Aaron Rodger has. But that's just not the case. Aaron Rodgers has been training at QB continuously since he was 12 or whatever, and hasn't stopped. Brandon Weeden took 5 or 6 years off to play baseball. So how could he possibly be at his mental, fundamental, technical peak? How is that even possible? If that's the case then you're actually complimenting Brandon Weeden to an extent that even I wouldn't.

This is not a 28 year old defensive end throwing around 18 year old offensive tackles. This is not a 28 year old wide receiver burning 19 year olds to a cinder. Brandon Weeden has LITERALLY THE SAME AMOUNT OF FOOTBALL TRAINING AS EVERY OTHER PLAYER OUT THERE.

Let that sink in.

Football training. Same amount. For a mental, fundamental, technical position. Same amount.

So why should that be considered an unfair advantage? Maybe because he forgets about an interception more quickly than more emotionally immature kids do? That's it? That's the great big advantage he has? If that's the case, that's moot anyway, because guys like Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley, guys like Robert Griffin (so everyone keeps telling me, but I don't really believe it), the ELITE prospects, they already have that quality at whatever age they're at.

hooshoops
01-11-2012, 12:51 AM
That...wasn't the question.

i know...i'm just giving you guff...but you should absolutely be weedens agent...

Kistner10
01-11-2012, 02:59 AM
Some legit concerns in here. The offense doesn't have a history of producing good passers. Of course, neither did Jeff Tedford's offense. There's no escaping that the Big 12 has some crappy defenses. I'm not sure about the assertion that he didn't look any good against good defenses, I think he looked good generally speaking no matter who he played.

The concern I do NOT share with people is the one that says since he was 27 and 28 years old in 2010 and 2011, he should be dominating against "kids". I think this assumption is inappropriate for the quarterback position. If anything Brandon Weeden had a pretty strong disadvantage against those "kids" in that he took a 5 or 6 year hiatus from football and played baseball, then had to come back and totally RE-LEARN all these things he'd forgot. And that's not just from a mental standpoint, his body had to re-learn things that other guys around him that have been playing football continuously all could do in their sleep.

This is why you do NOT see many athletes take long breaks from their sport, come back, and get back on top like this. It's just not that easy. It's a story made for fiction.

Being at your "athletic peak" to me has a more physical connotation. But quarterback, especially quarterback the way he plays the game (as opposed to the way Robert Griffin plays the game), is not a physical position. It's a mental, fundamental, technique position. Yeah, you know what, he WOULD be at his peak at 28 years old, if he'd been playing the sport continuously like an Aaron Rodger has. But that's just not the case. Aaron Rodgers has been training at QB continuously since he was 12 or whatever, and hasn't stopped. Brandon Weeden took 5 or 6 years off to play baseball. So how could he possibly be at his mental, fundamental, technical peak? How is that even possible? If that's the case then you're actually complimenting Brandon Weeden to an extent that even I wouldn't.

This is not a 28 year old defensive end throwing around 18 year old offensive tackles. This is not a 28 year old wide receiver burning 19 year olds to a cinder. Brandon Weeden has LITERALLY THE SAME AMOUNT OF FOOTBALL TRAINING AS EVERY OTHER PLAYER OUT THERE.

Let that sink in.

Football training. Same amount. For a mental, fundamental, technical position. Same amount.

So why should that be considered an unfair advantage? Maybe because he forgets about an interception more quickly than more emotionally immature kids do? That's it? That's the great big advantage he has? If that's the case, that's moot anyway, because guys like Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley, guys like Robert Griffin (so everyone keeps telling me, but I don't really believe it), the ELITE prospects, they already have that quality at whatever age they're at.

You make some good points, but I do think the concerns about physical/mental maturity against college kids is a legit concern. I know he's not playing DE or OLB where the physical maturity or growth would be even more apparent, but it's still an advantage nonetheless. He is still playing at his peak against players that aren't. In the NFL he won't have that advantage.

Again, there aren't very many examples of older college QB's, but the two that stand that come to mind are John Beck and Chris Weinke. Both produced in college and jumped out on tape to scouts and analyst. The Panthers ended up paying first round money for Weinke even though they took him in the 3rd or 4th round because of his tape. There were numerous analyst saying we got an absolute steal in John Beck and that he could turn into the next Drew Brees. That has me worried that maybe the physical/mental maturity does have some legs to it.

As far as football training, I believe you are 100% correct. I don't think he has an advantage in that respect. But I do think he has more athletic training than these guys. He spent years in a professional setting, fine-tuning his craft/diet/training regimes to make it in the big leagues. Most college students are still trying to figure this out. I actually think this is a plus for him since most prospects are still trying to figure this out and some might never figure this out. I still think this helped him out at the college level though.

I don't buy the Teford/Spread comparison at all though. Yeah Tedford has had limited success at CAL for grooming QB's especially since Rodgers left, but atleast his offense is more pro style. You might want Rodgers to clean up his footwork in 3,5, and 7 step drops, but he had experience with the footwork part of the game. Weeden doesn't have basic under the center footwork yet. Rodgers playing in a pro style offense with limited history is far different than Weeden and the spread offense.

You are very persuasive with your evaluation on Weeden. I was just wondering what other QB prospects have you been high on in the past. Hits and misses?? Just curious? I definately wouldn't have paid this much attention to Weeden without some of your arguments, so I definately agree with hoops that you should get a cut of Weeden's salary lol.

ckparrothead
01-11-2012, 01:44 PM
You are very persuasive with your evaluation on Weeden. I was just wondering what other QB prospects have you been high on in the past. Hits and misses?? Just curious? I definately wouldn't have paid this much attention to Weeden without some of your arguments, so I definately agree with hoops that you should get a cut of Weeden's salary lol.

I'm pretty forthcoming about my history. I can only go back so far because once you go back a certain distance in time, either I wasn't really evaluating QBs at all, or my process was so ridiculously immature compared with now that if today I were confronted with the me from back then, I would laugh in my own past self's face. Just being honest.

The first list is the QBs I LOVED. Think of my posts about Weeden. Think how much I rant about him, how it's kind of funny, some people kid about it, etc. We're talking thousands of words written about these guys, accusations of almost homosexual man-love (in jest...I hope...), etc.

The next is a LIKED category. This means I was positive on this guy, to the point where I fully accepted his draft position and thought it was justified. For example, I liked Matt Stafford. I thought he was for sure the #1 QB in that Draft, and I thought if you needed a QB then him being the #1 pick is not a problem. But I didn't LOVE him. I didn't constantly defend him or rave about him, I didn't think he was "once in a decade" or "once in a few years", etc. I thought Mike Singletary's criticism of him was ludicrous and defended that a lot but I also admitted he's not the #1 overall type guy that a Carson Palmer was, etc.

The next category is an ABSTAINED category. This doesn't mean I disliked the guy, it means I didn't even try to get a handle on him, I didn't even evaluate him...for whatever reason. This is a tricky category because in some cases I don't even try on a guy because he doesn't stand out to me to where I wanted to jump in and really evaluate him to where I could build him up or tear him down. Eli Manning was an example of this, didn't really stand out to me as being worth his hype, but at the same time there were definitely skills there, and I just didn't want to take on that task. I decided to let him be. Sometimes when a guy is in that #1 overall category, I just don't have as much interest. But also in some cases I don't try on a guy just...well, let's call it laziness. Josh Freeman, Kevin O'Connell and Joe Flacco are perfect examples of the latter. Either I just didn't HAVE the tape to study those guys, or I didn't bother even trying to get it.

Then there's the HATED category. These were almost all high round guys that many people loved that I ranted against on an almost constant basis. These are guys I just felt didn't deserve their draft status, that I just found myself arguing against a whole lot. I do feel like "hate" is a strong word because in many cases, like with Kaepernick as an example, I just recognized there was a lot to like about him and maybe he's even a guy you WANT to root for, but I still just felt he was overrated and felt compelled to keep pointing out the flaws that other people weren't seeing or acknowledging.

And finally, there's the STABS category, this is just a bunch of stabs I've taken at low round guys that might be worth more than people think. I don't think this category should be evaluated like the other categories because these are not high round guys at all, they're stabs in the dark. If you've even got a 10% on these kinds of guys, IMO that's like a ridiculous win percentage considering the kinds of guys you're rating here. At this point you're really only evaluating these guys as probably valid backups at best. But my conviction in them is not a constant. You know, I raved about a Mike Kafka, Nate Davis or Colt Brennan a lot more than a James Pinkney.

LOVED: Cam Newton, Ryan Mallett, T.J. Yates, Sam Bradford, Brady Quinn, John Beck, Jay Cutler, Aaron Rodgers, Phil Rivers

LIKED: Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Matthew Stafford, Matt Ryan, Brian Brohm, Matt Leinart, Kellen Clemens, Brodie Croyle, Jason Campbell, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Schaub

ABSTAINED: Colt McCoy, Josh Freeman, Joe Flacco, Kevin O'Connell, Kevin Kolb, Drew Stanton, Tarvaris Jackson, Alex Smith, Andrew Walter, David Greene, Charlie Whitehurst, Eli Manning

HATED: Jake Locker, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen, Mark Sanchez, Pat White, Chad Henne, Jamarcus Russell, Trent Edwards, Vince Young, Charlie Frye, J.P. Losman

STABS: Nate Enderle, Adam Froman, Ben Chappell, Tony Pike, Levi Brown, Mike Kafka, Thaddeus Lewis, Tyler Sheehan, Stephen McGee, Nate Davis, Josh Johnson, Colt Brennan, Matt Flynn, Troy Smith, Jeff Rowe, Matt Moore, James Pinkney, Brett Ratliff, Omar Jacobs, Reggie McNeal, Barrick Nealy, Kyle Orton, Matt Mauck

ckparrothead
01-11-2012, 03:00 PM
My honest opinion is that I have somewhere around a 70-75 percent rate of being correct on quarterbacks, really just depending on how you grade it, since there's really no obvious way to grade these things.

For instance, I "liked" Ben Roethlisberger but I didn't "love" him. This means if you had the need, I'd have steered you toward drafting Roethlisberger wherever you thought he was going to be available. Do I get full credit for that? No, because I only "liked" him instead of "loving" him, that to me means that you may have gotten him but you may have also missed him because I wouldn't have had you manipulating your draft (either trading up or taking him significantly earlier than projected) because I didn't think whoa boy this is a dude you just HAVE to have.

And at the same time you think about the guys that I just abstained from totally...there's not much difference between that and a "hated" player, because either one, you wouldn't have steered your team toward taking. But it's not exactly like that because you'd not have jumped on any tables to argue against someone that wanted to draft that person, and so your team may have ended up drafting that guy.

And missing on Brian Brohm where he was drafted is not exactly like missing on Brady Quinn. So there's a lot of things going on in any kind of way of grading yourself. I just think about 70 to 75 percent is fair based on my own calculations.

dlockz
01-11-2012, 06:39 PM
I guess they forget who Roger Staubach and Warren Moon were too.

Staubach was an 11th round pick because of his age and Moon was signed after playing canada for 5 years . Im not downing Weeden for his talent but nobody will invest a high draft pick in a 28 year old prospect at qb unless they are the most amazing prospect ever and Weeden is not that guy. I like Weeden as a later pick like 4th round and beyond but we cannot afford to throw a second round pick at an older qb. Hell I was against drafting Beck as high as we did and he was a few years younger than Weeden and probably a better prospect

dlockz
01-12-2012, 07:35 AM
Say what? :)

Sounds like the makings of a friendly wager. Are you down?


Most definately

JCane
01-12-2012, 07:38 AM
LOVED: John Beck

No offense but...

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

jim1
01-12-2012, 10:06 AM
Staubach was an 11th round pick because of his age and Moon was signed after playing canada for 5 years . Im not downing Weeden for his talent but nobody will invest a high draft pick in a 28 year old prospect at qb unless they are the most amazing prospect ever and Weeden is not that guy. I like Weeden as a later pick like 4th round and beyond but we cannot afford to throw a second round pick at an older qb. Hell I was against drafting Beck as high as we did and he was a few years younger than Weeden and probably a better prospect

Staubach was drafted in 1964 when he was 22- it was the spectre of 5 years or so away from the game, including a tour of duty in Vietnam, that dropped him to the 10th round. Same age but different circumstances for Weeden- his baseball time has been served, and he's good to go right now.

I liked Beck as well, quite a bit actually, but he wasn't a better prospect than Weeden imo. Beck always seemed pretty small out on the field, especially before he put on some weight, and he has a solid arm but not a Brandon Weeden arm. I think that Parcells and his crew did some damage to Beck with the way they handled him, throwing motion change included. Beck's lack of success surprises me to this day- I saw talent there and again, I liked him as a prospect very much. But Weeden- take away the age issue and you're looking at a sure fire top ten talent, bottom line.

ckparrothead
01-12-2012, 01:07 PM
Show me the talent evaluator that hasn't been in love with a player that didn't end up playing well, and I'll show you a liar.

Aqua and Orange
01-12-2012, 02:29 PM
Show me the talent evaluator that hasn't been in love with a player that didn't end up playing well, and I'll show you a liar.

I too fell under the spell of the magical beast known as "Brian Brohm". No one has been more surprised than me how horrific he was. I think he asked me for change on the walk to work today.

Very cool reading your list of loved, likes, etc. You should publish one with this year's crop of QBs. Would set a Finheaven record for "Thanks".

jim1
01-12-2012, 02:47 PM
Show me the talent evaluator that hasn't been in love with a player that didn't end up playing well, and I'll show you a liar.

I remember two calls of yours that I thought were particularly good. The first was QB Levi Brown, who I looked up after you mentioned him. You can only see so much from a guy playing at Troy, but in terms of size, arm, feet in the pocket I thought that Brown just might have that elusive "it" factor. I only remember so much, but I do remember watching some clips of him and thinking that he reminded me a bit of Marino in terms of his quick release, ball velocity and accuracy. And the feet, too- nice quick feet in the pocket. If he's available I'd like to see us give him a shot.

Another was a WRa few years ago from some small college in the South, I'm thinking Louisiana. I Don't remember his name, but that guy has size, speed, quicks and hands. IIRC he made his own video and sent it to NFL teams. To this day I'm surprised that he hasn't done more, not sure if and where he's playing football these days.

Everyone hits and misses- people can say what they want, but as I said in a different post I really liked John Beck as a prospect- he hasn't done much, but I still stand by the pick and the thought process as per liking him. And I also liked Blaine Gabbert way more than Cam Newton, who I thought might be in for a rude awakening in the NFL. He's certaintly proven that theory to be invalid so far, and my guy Gabbert is pretty much sucking eggs so far. That's how it goes.

finomenal
01-12-2012, 06:39 PM
No offense but...

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

Funny gif. :lol: Everyone misses though. Everyone. You've got to admit, the "loved" list is pretty impressive.

finomenal
01-12-2012, 06:48 PM
Most definately

*quickly checks TOS...seems like this should be okay*

We might as well let FinHeaven get a piece too. Maybe a gift certificate for dinner plus a donation in any amount to FinHeaven if Weeden is drafted in the 3rd round or later, and the same for me if he's taken in either the 1st or 2nd round? I'm open to other suggestions though of course.

ckparrothead
01-13-2012, 02:30 AM
Weeden's daily doozy.

Todd Monken, the offensive coordinator at Oklahoma State that has only been there one year, said that Brandon Weeden is quite literally the best quarterback he's ever coached at any level. Why is this significant? Because in 2009 and 2010, Monken coached in the NFL. Prior to that, the likes of LSU, etc.

So let's examine that statement by Monken. Todd Monken has coached the following quarterbacks:

Rick Mirer (Notre Dame)
Charlie Batch (Eastern Michigan)
Jamarcus Russell (LSU)
Matt Flynn (LSU)
Ryan Perrilloux (LSU)
Jordan Jefferson (LSU)
Luke McCown (La Tech & Jacksonville)
David Garrard (Jacksonville)
Trent Edwards (Jacksonville)
Todd Bouman (Jacksonville)

Sure, it's interesting that Monken claims that Weeden is better than the likes of Pro Bowler David Garrard, and soon-to-be-rich Matt Flynn. But the most interesting thing is that Todd Monken is no stranger to PHYSICAL talent. The man that has coached Jamarcus Russell is not going to be star struck by Brandon Weeden's "big" arm. Like a porn star, trust me, he's seen bigger. He's seen all these guys and he just thinks Weeden is better than them, better at playing the game, more accurate.

I think that's pretty significant, personally.

hooshoops
01-13-2012, 09:10 AM
to each his own i guess cause that list is not very impressive to me...david garrard ehhh...matt flynns the only one that really even catches my eye and i can see where that might be said about him giving where he was drafted and the fact that i think just about all of us hated him as an nfl prospect when he came out

a lot of garbage there to me...

ckparrothead
01-13-2012, 11:50 AM
David Garrard has been to the Pro Bowl, has never posted a passer rating below 80, and has had a 91 passer rating and a 102 passer rating.

You don't think it's significant that in 2010 Todd Monken was QB Coach for an NFL passer that had a 91 passer rating and then in 2011 he coaches a college Brandon Weeden and says he's flat out better?

To each his own indeed.

hooshoops
01-13-2012, 12:07 PM
garrard blows...he always has...i don't care what the rating says...you aren't winning squat with david garrard in his prime even...at least thats my feeling on the guy

Tunaphish429
01-13-2012, 12:11 PM
Weeden's daily doozy.

Todd Monken, the offensive coordinator at Oklahoma State that has only been there one year, said that Brandon Weeden is quite literally the best quarterback he's ever coached at any level. Why is this significant? Because in 2009 and 2010, Monken coached in the NFL. Prior to that, the likes of LSU, etc.

So let's examine that statement by Monken. Todd Monken has coached the following quarterbacks:

Rick Mirer (Notre Dame)
Charlie Batch (Eastern Michigan)
Jamarcus Russell (LSU)
Matt Flynn (LSU)
Ryan Perrilloux (LSU)
Jordan Jefferson (LSU)
Luke McCown (La Tech & Jacksonville)
David Garrard (Jacksonville)
Trent Edwards (Jacksonville)
Todd Bouman (Jacksonville)

Sure, it's interesting that Monken claims that Weeden is better than the likes of Pro Bowler David Garrard, and soon-to-be-rich Matt Flynn. But the most interesting thing is that Todd Monken is no stranger to PHYSICAL talent. The man that has coached Jamarcus Russell is not going to be star struck by Brandon Weeden's "big" arm. Like a porn star, trust me, he's seen bigger. He's seen all these guys and he just thinks Weeden is better than them, better at playing the game, more accurate.

I think that's pretty significant, personally.

I guess if you wanted to look on the bright side you could say that the guys he has coached made it to the NFL. But if you look at it on the other side, he has coached a bunch of nobodies. I guess the jury is out on Matt Flynn right now and I really dont know how his protege's stack up to anothers.

ckparrothead
01-13-2012, 12:36 PM
Point.

Missed.

hooshoops
01-13-2012, 12:46 PM
no i get your point...i'm just not all that impressed when a guy says weeddens better than david garrard was for him...i would hope that would be the case...i'm not impressed by garrard at all...never have been

datruth55
01-13-2012, 12:48 PM
Not an impressive list of QBs Monken has coached at all. Matt Flynn is still a question mark but he may turn out the best of the bunch...he also had the benefit of sitting and learning and maturing physically for the last 4 years in Green Bay. Weeden is already mature physically, he'll be 29 in October so he should be in his prime physically, there is little to no growth left there.

1972fins
01-13-2012, 03:12 PM
When you think what the dolphins have done with their first and second picks, I don't get the concern about Weeden's age you get a guy that is showing special stuff and he could play at a high level for say six to seven years what is the problem.
Should we list the never ending list of QBs that didn't get it done in Miami.
He's the best available QB when the Dolphins pick why not give it a try, we wasted enough picks Henne, White etc etc etc

---------- Post added at 02:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:11 PM ----------

When you think what the dolphins have done with their first and second picks, I don't get the concern about Weeden's age you get a guy that is showing special stuff and he could play at a high level for say six to seven years what is the problem.<br>Should we list the never ending list of QBs that didn't get it done in Miami.<br>He's the best available QB when the Dolphins pick why not give it a try, we wasted enough picks Henne, White etc etc etc

vagrantprodigy
01-14-2012, 09:54 AM
I hope to hell we don't draft Weeden. He's not nfl ready, which means a year or two at least to get acclimated. then you get what, 4 or 5 good years out of him before age catches up, and his game slips? No thank you.

Elliott 1
01-14-2012, 11:31 AM
I hope to hell we don't draft Weeden. He's not nfl ready, which means a year or two at least to get acclimated. then you get what, 4 or 5 good years out of him before age catches up, and his game slips? No thank you.

What about him do you think makes him not NFL ready??

IMO, he is as NFL ready as any QB I've seen recent years. Probably more NFL ready because of age,maturity, and excellent leadership qualities.

He finished his degree in 2010. He will have a full offseason to work on transitioning to the pro game.

Nope, can't agree at all that he isn't NFL ready. In fact I would indeed say the opposite would be true in Weeden's case.

vagrantprodigy
01-14-2012, 11:41 AM
What about him do you think makes him not NFL ready??

IMO, he is as NFL ready as any QB I've seen recent years. Probably more NFL ready because of age,maturity, and excellent leadership qualities.

He finished his degree in 2010. He will have a full offseason to work on transitioning to the pro game.

Nope, can't agree at all that he isn't NFL ready. In fact I would indeed say the opposite would be true in Weeden's case.

When I say NFL ready, I mean he's not going to come in and light up the world in his rookie year. Just about every QB takes a year or two to acclimate. Most take 3 or 4. He's going to be 29 soon. He doesn't have time to acclimate.

jim1
01-14-2012, 11:45 AM
What about him do you think makes him not NFL ready??

IMO, he is as NFL ready as any QB I've seen recent years. Probably more NFL ready because of age,maturity, and excellent leadership qualities.

He finished his degree in 2010. He will have a full offseason to work on transitioning to the pro game.

Nope, can't agree at all that he isn't NFL ready. In fact I would indeed say the opposite would be true in Weeden's case.

Exactly. Weeden has made every throw out of the OSU offense and has shown the power, accuracy and touch to make any NFL throw. He's a class act and is as NFL ready as any Qb out there. As to his playing in the shotgun- he'll be doing quite a bit of theat in the pros and I have no reason to believe that he'll have any problem dropping back in the pocket, that's an overblown issue imo. He's good to go.

greasyObnoxious
01-14-2012, 12:00 PM
When I say NFL ready, I mean he's not going to come in and light up the world in his rookie year. Just about every QB takes a year or two to acclimate. Most take 3 or 4. He's going to be 29 soon. He doesn't have time to acclimate.

well sure, hardly does a rookie QB light it up, but you can still be effective and win with them. look no further than Cincinnati. Dalton was in no way, shape or form a better QB prospect than Weeden is and yet they made the play-offs.

jim1
01-14-2012, 12:03 PM
When I say NFL ready, I mean he's not going to come in and light up the world in his rookie year. Just about every QB takes a year or two to acclimate. Most take 3 or 4. He's going to be 29 soon. He doesn't have time to acclimate.

Look at Andy Dalton and Cam Newton this year. Even if Weeden has to endure a break in process his first year, that's fine. That would give him 7 years after his rookie year before he turns 37. Everyone who likes Weeden would prefer that he's 21, but there's no helping that. He is, easily, the closest thing to Andrew Luck out there. Quite frankly, age aside, I might prefer Weeden because he has a better arm. A QB of Weeden's talent for 7-8 years would be a welcome sight to this crapfest of an organization. They should have given Fisher control over Jeff Ireland, who is a decent GM but also kind of a jerk. This franchise has screwed the pooch consistently since Don Shula was unceremoniously dumped. If he was a few years younger I'd say bring him back- you never know how much you'll miss someone until they're gone. Shula was flawed, especially in personnel matters, but he also got screwed out of Bobby Beathard, George Young, Ted Hendricks, Warfield/Czonka/Kiick, etc. The Dolphins could use a dose of "cult of personality'- get a big name, alpha dog head coach in there and have Ireland- or some other GM- answer to him. That and drafting Weeden would go a long, long way to restroring this franchise imo.

WVDolphan
09-09-2013, 09:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZW9718-6JU

The glaring WEAKNESSES.................. Brandon Weeden..... :lol:

Thumper1016
09-10-2013, 03:17 AM
That whole clip was some funny **** WV. Anyone else hoping this guy makes another video next week if they should lose their game.