PDA

View Full Version : The Weeden Way



Elliott 1
01-05-2012, 07:18 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/43114/gundy-not-shy-about-assessing-weedens-place

N (http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/43114/gundy-not-shy-about-assessing-weedens-place)ot just a good leader, a great leader. Weeden is just what the doctor ordered for the ailing Dolphins.

IMO leadership is greatly underrated in QB qualifications.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/235677/brandon-weeden

O (http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/235677/brandon-weeden)ne difference between Weeden and RG: Weeden took 12 sacks in 2011, RG took 27 sacks. That is a big margin. Just another reason to trade down and draft Weeden instead of trying to trade up and throw away picks.

I think the most likely trade down partner for the fins is the Bengals. They have two 1st round picks and they badly need a couple CB's. They will have to trade up to get Claiborne or Kirkpatrick. I'm confident that one of those guys will slide to the #8 pick. According to the chart it would cost them their 2nd and 3rd round picks to do the deal. The Dolphins accept the 2nd and 5th rounders and DE/OLB Michael Johnson.Dolphins throw in Tyrone Culver to seal the deal. Bengals could use a veteran guy of impeccable character and high IQ to play the dime.

Dolphins trade down again with Houston from the 17 to the 27. Dolphins get their 2nd rd pick. Texans get the 17th and 7th pick and draft Dontari Poe NT.

Dolphins trade Brian Hartline and the rights to restricted FA Lex Hilliard. Dolphins replace these roster spots with FA WR Robert Meachem and draft pick FB/RB Darrell Scott from South Florida.

Other FA acuisitions: OG Carl Nicks and OLB Kroy Bieman, ILB Rocky McKintosh.Nothing needs to be said about Nicks, he is headed for the HOF.

Bierman is very effective situational pass rusher who had a great collegiate career as a LB. Should fit right in and eliminate the need for Trusnick and Allama-Francis who stink.

Draft:
1st......................TE........Coby Fleener....Not many TE's are deep threats, Fleener is. He and Meachem should add a lot of explosiveness to the offense.
2nd......................FS.......Markelle Martin...Big Hitter with great ball skills. A leader with remarkable ability to be where the play is. IMO Jones and Clemons are backups/ST's.
2nd......................OLB......Chandler Jones...Big guy with long arms 6'5" 265, outstanding athleticism.
2nd......................QB.......Brandon Weeden....A bona fide leader
3rd......................OG.......Kevin Zietler.........Could become dominant in a couple years.
4th......................OT.......Tony Bergstrom......Should win the RT position right out of the gate.
5th......................RB.......Jeff Demps..........Return guy, should be one of the fastest guys in the NFL if he makes the roster. Might be something of a backup for Bush
5th......................OT.......Tom Compton.......Good prospect to backup Long. Let there be depth.
6th.....................FB/RB....Darrell Scott.......6'1" 240 4.48 forty Will be very raw. May not be usable until the 2nd half of the season if at all his rookie year
FA's.....................WR/KR..Luther Ambrose... May be faster than Demps. Maybe he or Demps can be the next Sproles.
..........................OT.........Ogelsby............practice squad
Randy Colling.........DT.........Big,Strong,Fast. Was dominant in Div 2. could make the roster. He was a champion wrestler in HS.

I like this roster, especially the OL
QB..............................................Weeden,Moore
RB................................................Bush,Thomas,Demps
FB...............................................Clay,Scott
WR..............................................Marshall,Meachem,Bess,Wallace,Moore,Ambrose
TE..............................................Fasano,Fleener,Mastrud
OT...............................................Long,Bergstrom,Jerry,Compton
OG/C...........................................Pouncey,Nicks,Incognito,Zietler,Garner

DT........................Soliai,Colling
DE........................Odrick,Starks,Langford,McDaniel,Baker
ILB.......................Dansby,Burnett,Mckintosh,Spitler
OLB......................Wake,Johnson,Jones,Misi,Bierman
S.........................Bell,Martin,Jones,Clemons
CB........................Davis,Smith,Allen,Carroll,smith

shanegerard
01-05-2012, 07:54 AM
He's 30 years old no thanks.

Pretty easy to look good playing against kids when you are a mature man. See Beck, John and Weinke, Chris

dr.jake
01-05-2012, 09:13 AM
i hear he wants to be shuffleboard champ at del boca vista.

jim1
01-05-2012, 09:22 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/43114/gundy-not-shy-about-assessing-weedens-place

N (http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/43114/gundy-not-shy-about-assessing-weedens-place)ot just a good leader, a great leader. Weeden is just what the doctor ordered for the ailing Dolphins.

IMO leadership is greatly underrated in QB qualifications.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/235677/brandon-weeden

O (http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/235677/brandon-weeden)ne difference between Weeden and RG: Weeden took 12 sacks in 2011, RG took 27 sacks. That is a big margin. Just another reason to trade down and draft Weeden instead of trying to trade up and throw away picks.

I think the most likely trade down partner for the fins is the Bengals. They have two 1st round picks and they badly need a couple CB's. They will have to trade up to get Claiborne or Kirkpatrick. I'm confident that one of those guys will slide to the #8 pick. According to the chart it would cost them their 2nd and 3rd round picks to do the deal. The Dolphins accept the 2nd and 5th rounders and DE/OLB Michael Johnson.Dolphins throw in Tyrone Culver to seal the deal. Bengals could use a veteran guy of impeccable character and high IQ to play the dime.

Dolphins trade down again with Houston from the 17 to the 27. Dolphins get their 2nd rd pick. Texans get the 17th and 7th pick and draft Dontari Poe NT.

Dolphins trade Brian Hartline and the rights to restricted FA Lex Hilliard. Dolphins replace these roster spots with FA WR Robert Meachem and draft pick FB/RB Darrell Scott from South Florida.

Other FA acuisitions: OG Carl Nicks and OLB Kroy Bieman, ILB Rocky McKintosh.Nothing needs to be said about Nicks, he is headed for the HOF.

Bierman is very effective situational pass rusher who had a great collegiate career as a LB. Should fit right in and eliminate the need for Trusnick and Allama-Francis who stink.

Draft:
1st......................TE........Coby Fleener....Not many TE's are deep threats, Fleener is. He and Meachem should add a lot of explosiveness to the offense.
2nd......................FS.......Markelle Martin...Big Hitter with great ball skills. A leader with remarkable ability to be where the play is. IMO Jones and Clemons are backups/ST's.
2nd......................OLB......Chandler Jones...Big guy with long arms 6'5" 265, outstanding athleticism.
2nd......................QB.......Brandon Weeden....A bona fide leader
3rd......................OG.......Kevin Zietler.........Could become dominant in a couple years.
4th......................OT.......Tony Bergstrom......Should win the RT position right out of the gate.
5th......................RB.......Jeff Demps..........Return guy, should be one of the fastest guys in the NFL if he makes the roster. Might be something of a backup for Bush
5th......................OT.......Tom Compton.......Good prospect to backup Long. Let there be depth.
6th.....................FB/RB....Darrell Scott.......6'1" 240 4.48 forty Will be very raw. May not be usable until the 2nd half of the season if at all his rookie year
FA's.....................WR/KR..Luther Ambrose... May be faster than Demps. Maybe he or Demps can be the next Sproles.
..........................OT.........Ogelsby............practice squad
Randy Colling.........DT.........Big,Strong,Fast. Was dominant in Div 2. could make the roster. He was a champion wrestler in HS.

I like this roster, especially the OL
QB..............................................Weeden,Moore
RB................................................Bush,Thomas,Demps
FB...............................................Clay,Scott
WR..............................................Marshall,Meachem,Bess,Wallace,Moore,Ambrose
TE..............................................Fasano,Fleener,Mastrud
OT...............................................Long,Bergstrom,Jerry,Compton
OG/C...........................................Pouncey,Nicks,Incognito,Zietler,Garner

DT........................Soliai,Colling
DE........................Odrick,Starks,Langford,McDaniel,Baker
ILB.......................Dansby,Burnett,Mckintosh,Spitler
OLB......................Wake,Johnson,Jones,Misi,Bierman
S.........................Bell,Martin,Jones,Clemons
CB........................Davis,Smith,Allen,Carroll,smith

Nice post. I'm starting to wonder how high Fleener will go- looks like it might end up being pretty high indeedI'm thinking mid-late 2nd round. Weeden- personally, I would take him with that 1st pick in the 2nd rd, not even risk losing out on him. For all of the "old man" comments- he'll turn 36 in his 8th year, that's really not all that bad. Plenty of time for a solid career. Matt Flynn is all of 2 years younger than Weeden, and he's been riding the bench for the last few years, much less playing time than Weeden. Great game by Flynn last week though, no denying that.

Wishfishin
01-05-2012, 09:39 AM
This is the one QB I hope the Fins pass on. If it's Weeden or Moore, I'd rather stick with Moore who is about the same age and has NFL experience.

Harry_Bagpipe
01-05-2012, 11:30 AM
Way too early to draft fleener. He may wind up being available early third. If your hellbent on taking a tightend in the first take Dwayne Allen. Isn't markelle Martin more of a strong safety?

hooshoops
01-05-2012, 11:38 AM
i hear he wants to be shuffleboard champ at del boca vista.

now that's funny...

hooshoops
01-05-2012, 11:45 AM
Way too early to draft fleener. He may wind up being available early third. If your hellbent on taking a tightend in the first take Dwayne Allen. Isn't markelle Martin more of a strong safety?

the only thing i think that could hold dwayne allen down is a lack of height...if he comes in at 6 ft 2 and some change i think that might drop him some...at or over 6 ft 3 i think he's the first te off the board...i'm thinking he's 6 ft 3 255 lbs...and yeah buddy 1st round grade from me

markelle martin looks like a strong safety to me at the next level...

Elliott 1
01-05-2012, 02:52 PM
I based the Fleener pick on the mock draft at CBS Sports. They had Fleener going to the Giants in the 1st round. Fleener is 6'6" 255 and is expected to run a 4.5 forty at the combine. One guy even said he was the third fastest player on the Stanford roster. I find that hard to believe but obviously a lot of people are very impressed with his athleticism. If he blows up the combine I'm sure he will go in the 1st round. Not many TE's are such a legitimate deep threat. He could really help the Dolphins in that department. Marshall would benefit as well.

Elliott 1
01-05-2012, 03:00 PM
the only thing i think that could hold dwayne allen down is a lack of height...if he comes in at 6 ft 2 and some change i think that might drop him some...at or over 6 ft 3 i think he's the first te off the board...i'm thinking he's 6 ft 3 255 lbs...and yeah buddy 1st round grade from me

markelle martin looks like a strong safety to me at the next level...

Dwayne Allen is a Charles Clay clone IMO. They have almost identical triangle numbers and measureables. Allen would project to do the exact same things in most offences as Clay.
They are so similar I wouldn't be surprised if they looked alike.

Harry_Bagpipe
01-05-2012, 03:00 PM
the only thing i think that could hold dwayne allen down is a lack of height...if he comes in at 6 ft 2 and some change i think that might drop him some...at or over 6 ft 3 i think he's the first te off the board...i'm thinking he's 6 ft 3 255 lbs...and yeah buddy 1st round grade from me

markelle martin looks like a strong safety to me at the next level...

Any thoughts on trumaine Johnson converting to a free safety? I know he's a bit of a knucklehead but he seems to have good size and a knack for being a ballhawk

ckparrothead
01-05-2012, 03:38 PM
the only thing i think that could hold dwayne allen down is a lack of height...if he comes in at 6 ft 2 and some change i think that might drop him some...at or over 6 ft 3 i think he's the first te off the board...i'm thinking he's 6 ft 3 255 lbs...and yeah buddy 1st round grade from me

markelle martin looks like a strong safety to me at the next level...

I suppose the actual measurement is going to matter. I look at him on the field and I think he's 6'2" to 6'3". He only looks to me about 1 inch taller than Sammy Watkins when I see a field-level view of the two side by side.

However, you just have to look at him during the games to see that he leaves his quarterback very little margin for error when trying to use Dwayne Allen to control the seam. Last night you watch a guy with Tajh Boyd's talent slightly overthrow Allen on a seam pattern, or overthrow Allen over the middle on a scramble drill because he needed to get the ball over the reach of a linebacker...and Allen can't get to those passes. It makes it tougher for the QB to drop a touch pass down into the hole for Allen to catch it, while getting it over the head of a linebacker in the lane. If he were the ideal size, those 6'6" or 6'7" type basketball players, you have a better margin for error and your QB doesn't have the pressure to be pinpoint accurate in his elevation of the ball. With him being 6'2" or 6'3", the margin for error is much smaller, and that's a problem for many QBs because if you miss high over the middle, you're begging for an interception. Some QBs will lose faith in their own ability to get that ball into that tight space, because of the lack of margin for error. It won't matter if the QB is a really mobile type that can create passing lanes on his own

I've said before he's more of an H-Back, like a Chris Cooley, Dallas Clark or Dustin Keller. But he doesn't have the speed of Dallas Clark or the ups of Dustin Keller. You'll get use out of Dwayne Allen at the next level. But I don't see him dominating. I'm not saying I can't be wrong on this but that's how I see it.

hooshoops
01-05-2012, 03:51 PM
I suppose the actual measurement is going to matter. I look at him on the field and I think he's 6'2" to 6'3". He only looks to me about 1 inch taller than Sammy Watkins when I see a field-level view of the two side by side.

However, you just have to look at him during the games to see that he leaves his quarterback very little margin for error when trying to use Dwayne Allen to control the seam. Last night you watch a guy with Tajh Boyd's talent slightly overthrow Allen on a seam pattern, or overthrow Allen over the middle on a scramble drill because he needed to get the ball over the reach of a linebacker...and Allen can't get to those passes. It makes it tougher for the QB to drop a touch pass down into the hole for Allen to catch it, while getting it over the head of a linebacker in the lane. If he were the ideal size, those 6'6" or 6'7" type basketball players, you have a better margin for error and your QB doesn't have the pressure to be pinpoint accurate in his elevation of the ball. With him being 6'2" or 6'3", the margin for error is much smaller, and that's a problem for many QBs because if you miss high over the middle, you're begging for an interception. Some QBs will lose faith in their own ability to get that ball into that tight space, because of the lack of margin for error. It won't matter if the QB is a really mobile type that can create passing lanes on his own

I've said before he's more of an H-Back, like a Chris Cooley, Dallas Clark or Dustin Keller. But he doesn't have the speed of Dallas Clark or the ups of Dustin Keller. You'll get use out of Dwayne Allen at the next level. But I don't see him dominating. I'm not saying I can't be wrong on this but that's how I see it.

that's true...his height plays against him down the seam...thats my big concern with him...i think what your saying is very valid and it was evident yesterday...there's not a lot of room for error on throws to him...but i also think if you get a qb with more ideal nfl height than boyd who might be 6 ft 1 at best imo who can throw from a more over the top higher angle you have more margin for error...boyd plays against him in that regard...

that kid can really play though...and i'm thinking after watching him sprint 100 yards he's gonna run better than people expect...

Phinglish
01-05-2012, 03:55 PM
By the time the draft comes around, I'd be amazed if Fleener isn't drafted on Thursday.

hooshoops
01-05-2012, 03:58 PM
i saw fleener run down an intercepting player this year who had a good head start like it was nothing...can't remember which game...maybe usc??? anyways...wouldn't surprise me with how fast he closed and made the tackle if he ran low 4.5's and yeah buddy at that height weight and that speed his stock is gonna soar...that kids gonna test really well all the way around imo

ideally i think he's more what we need...the height speed mismatch down the field with the large catching radius...

SF Dolphin Fan
01-05-2012, 04:12 PM
I based the Fleener pick on the mock draft at CBS Sports. They had Fleener going to the Giants in the 1st round. Fleener is 6'6" 255 and is expected to run a 4.5 forty at the combine. One guy even said he was the third fastest player on the Stanford roster. I find that hard to believe but obviously a lot of people are very impressed with his athleticism. If he blows up the combine I'm sure he will go in the 1st round. Not many TE's are such a legitimate deep threat. He could really help the Dolphins in that department. Marshall would benefit as well.I wouldn't be surprised if SF took him with their #1 pick. Harbaugh could combine him with Davis for one terrific tight end duo.

ckparrothead
01-05-2012, 04:17 PM
that's true...his height plays against him down the seam...thats my big concern with him...i think what your saying is very valid and it was evident yesterday...there's not a lot of room for error on throws to him...but i also think if you get a qb with more ideal nfl height than boyd who might be 6 ft 1 at best imo who can throw from a more over the top higher angle you have more margin for error...boyd plays against him in that regard...

that kid can really play though...and i'm thinking after watching him sprint 100 yards he's gonna run better than people expect...

On the taller QB, it's possible, but it's tough for me to imagine. Might help.

hooshoops
01-05-2012, 04:30 PM
On the taller QB, it's possible, but it's tough for me to imagine. Might help.

the more i think about it the more i think you're right...the height is gonna keep him out of round 1...maybe even the top 50...all i know is when people say he's charles clay i think he's much more than that...this kids a better in line blocker and can win one on one matchups down the field...i think he runs solid routes also...clays more your run down the seam against zone coverage or unaccounted for hands guy down the field...fantastic hands no doubt...i don't think clay can defeat a lot of man to man coverage...or at least to date i haven't seen any real evidence of it...we snuck him down invading a safetys zone a few times but i think that was more the element of surprise than this kids eating up safeties cushion etc...

like i said with clay...i want to see evidence of him flexed out of in line with a man over him and him winning down the field...that may be something we see next year but right now at least for me its nothing but a maybe

steviey013
01-05-2012, 10:44 PM
Nice work!

ckparrothead
01-06-2012, 01:12 AM
the more i think about it the more i think you're right...the height is gonna keep him out of round 1...maybe even the top 50...all i know is when people say he's charles clay i think he's much more than that...this kids a better in line blocker and can win one on one matchups down the field...i think he runs solid routes also...clays more your run down the seam against zone coverage or unaccounted for hands guy down the field...fantastic hands no doubt...i don't think clay can defeat a lot of man to man coverage...or at least to date i haven't seen any real evidence of it...we snuck him down invading a safetys zone a few times but i think that was more the element of surprise than this kids eating up safeties cushion etc...

like i said with clay...i want to see evidence of him flexed out of in line with a man over him and him winning down the field...that may be something we see next year but right now at least for me its nothing but a maybe

He's going to be a good player. But is he going to be a game changer or is he going to be more of a Fred Davis?

I think the players teams are going to start looking for are going to look either like Jermichael Finley, agile like a wide receiver and can win one-on-one against corners and safeties on the perimeter when lined up like a wide out, or guys like Jimmy Graham/Rob Gronkowski who can control the seam up the middle and always be an available, compelling target over the middle. Well, they also go to the outside and win those one-on-ones.

Is that what Dwayne Allen is going to be able to do regularly? Not sure yet. If the NFL starts thinking of him as more of a Joker TE then I wonder if they won't like Orson Charles more. And I do think Coby Fleener is going to go above Dwayne. I'm not saying Allen is going to go low, the NFL is likely to be pretty TE-hungry as everyone tries to copy the success of the Patriots and Packers with their TEs. But I think he could go 3rd among TEs and be viewed as more of an H-Back.

state06
01-06-2012, 01:29 AM
why couldnt we just have drafted Graham like we wanted...oh well...he's not our first miss

MadDog 88
01-06-2012, 04:29 AM
i hear he wants to be shuffleboard champ at del boca vista.I love Weeden but that is hilarious :lol:

hooshoops
01-06-2012, 10:22 AM
He's going to be a good player. But is he going to be a game changer or is he going to be more of a Fred Davis?

I think the players teams are going to start looking for are going to look either like Jermichael Finley, agile like a wide receiver and can win one-on-one against corners and safeties on the perimeter when lined up like a wide out, or guys like Jimmy Graham/Rob Gronkowski who can control the seam up the middle and always be an available, compelling target over the middle. Well, they also go to the outside and win those one-on-ones.

Is that what Dwayne Allen is going to be able to do regularly? Not sure yet. If the NFL starts thinking of him as more of a Joker TE then I wonder if they won't like Orson Charles more. And I do think Coby Fleener is going to go above Dwayne. I'm not saying Allen is going to go low, the NFL is likely to be pretty TE-hungry as everyone tries to copy the success of the Patriots and Packers with their TEs. But I think he could go 3rd among TEs and be viewed as more of an H-Back.

fred davis...yeah i've kind of wondered about that myself...seems very similar