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Finfanforever
01-17-2012, 10:39 AM
Ireland not moving in on Dalton, Yates, and Mallett proves he either doesn't know QB's or he just doesn't see them as important as the rest of the NFL. Now we are stuck at #8 or 9 with no hope of getting a young QB unless we trade-the-farm. Ireland is an idiot! !:bobdole:

hooshoops
01-17-2012, 10:46 AM
whats so great about dalton and yates...passing on those guys doesn't bother me...mallett 1st round talent in the 3rd round due to skeletons in his closet...jurys still out

Finfanforever
01-17-2012, 10:56 AM
whats so great about dalton and yates...passing on those guys doesn't bother me...mallett 1st round talent in the 3rd round due to skeletons in his closet...jurys still out

Well for starters (as ROOKIES) they both guided their teams to the playoffs...yeah...that will do.

RobertHorry
01-17-2012, 11:00 AM
Yeah that had nothing to do with Arian Foster or the Bengals defense.

It was the teams guiding them to the playoffs.

Finfanforever
01-17-2012, 11:06 AM
Yeah that had nothing to do with Arian Foster or the Bengals defense.

It was the teams guiding them to the playoffs.

We all know it's a team game...the point is there were 3 worthy QB's to be taken...and the fool passed on them. For a rookie to play well enough to get their teams to the playoffs speaks volumes as too their upside. Like it or not this is a pass oriented league...watch the playoffs and see that I am correct. The Dolphins should draft a QB EVERY YEAR...until the post Marino drought is over!

datruth55
01-17-2012, 11:11 AM
Dalton was taken at the top of the 2nd round and we didn't have a 2nd round draft pick until we traded back into the 2nd round. We traded our 5th rounder, along with our 3rd, to move up into the 2nd round and get Daniel Thomas and it still wasn't high enough to get Dalton and obviously we didn't have a pick in the 5th to take Yates with or a 3rd to take Mallet with.

Hind sight is always 20/20 and Mallet was really the best pick in the 3rd for the value.

I like Dalton more than Yates but I'm not sure either would have played any better than Moore did down the stretch. The cieling for both is yet to be seen but IMO Dalton has a higher cieling than Yates does and Mallet's may be higher than both.

ckparrothead
01-17-2012, 11:26 AM
IMO, it most certainly does show that Ireland doesn't value the position. If he valued the position he wouldn't have passed on developmental opportunities. At the time of the Draft he only had one quarterback on roster. Free agency had not happened yet. It's easy in hindsight to say yeah but he planned to get Matt Moore, but what if Moore didn't want to come here? What if Carolina made him an offer to stay on as Newton's backup?

He had ONE quarterback on roster, and that quarterback was controversial with many (rightfully) not sold on him at all, and yet he ducked out of an entire record-breaking quarterback class. I think the implications of that are obvious.

hooshoops
01-17-2012, 11:28 AM
dalton and yates to me look like care takers at the position...not playmakers...but thats just me...i don't see a lot of real upside...

Finfanforever
01-17-2012, 11:29 AM
IMO, it most certainly does show that Ireland doesn't value the position. If he valued the position he wouldn't have passed on developmental opportunities. At the time of the Draft he only had one quarterback on roster. Free agency had not happened yet. It's easy in hindsight to say yeah but he planned to get Matt Moore, but what if Moore didn't want to come here? What if Carolina made him an offer to stay on as Newton's backup?

He had ONE quarterback on roster, and that quarterback was controversial with many (rightfully) not sold on him at all, and yet he ducked out of an entire record-breaking quarterback class. I think the implications of that are obvious.

That's my point...thanks CK for bringing some logic to this discussion.

RobertHorry
01-17-2012, 11:30 AM
dalton and yates to me look like care takers at the position...not playmakers...but thats just me...i don't see a lot of real upside...

I agree with this. Mallet is a playmaker who we should have drafted. I can fault Ireland for that but with some of those problems Mallet has we will still have to see. Its not that big of a deal he passes on Dalton and Yates.

hooshoops
01-17-2012, 11:31 AM
That's my point...thanks CK for bringing some logic to this discussion.

well if thats your point your thread title is misleading...at least to me

hooshoops
01-17-2012, 11:33 AM
i tell ya one thing...if we had andy dalton i wouldn't be all that excited about his long term prospects...to me in 5 years or less cinci is probably looking for an upgrade...i just don't see what the hype is about that kid...

Finfanforever
01-17-2012, 05:38 PM
i tell ya one thing...if we had andy dalton i wouldn't be all that excited about his long term prospects...to me in 5 years or less cinci is probably looking for an upgrade...i just don't see what the hype is about that kid...

I just don't see your logic...the kid is a rookie and led his team to the playoffs! He is only going to get better....the biggest blunder by Ireland...and the one he majorely screwed the pooch on...is passing on Mallett in the 3rd round!

kcbrown
01-17-2012, 05:44 PM
dalton and yates to me look like care takers at the position...not playmakers...but thats just me...i don't see a lot of real upside...

Which is better than what we had in Henne prior to Matt Moore coming here. Like CK said, he should have grabbed a QB to develop just in case no free agents came here. I'm glad we snagged Moore but signing Losman is JOKE, that spot should have gone to a developmental QB prospect.

ckparrothead
01-17-2012, 06:06 PM
Exactly. You just have to look at it objectively. It's not about one quarterback. It's about the fact that at the time of the Draft the Miami Dolphins ONLY had Chad Henne on roster, Chad Henne being damn close to total bust status, and yet they did not draft a single one of a record-breaking class of quarterbacks. A record number of quarterbacks were taken in the first three rounds. This year, I think the rookies from that class set all kinds of rookie records. You usually don't pick a quarterback thinking you're getting a great player immediately in the rookie year, but it IS possible, and it seems like every year we see that happen with increasing frequency. But not only did they have zero commitment to the idea that there's an upside POSSIBILITY that the guy you took is ready to play right away, they showed zero commitment to the idea of planning for the FUTURE by taking a guy that you can coach and develop.

And that's a sin. I'm sorry but it is.

rent this space
01-17-2012, 06:16 PM
Exactly. You just have to look at it objectively. It's not about one quarterback. It's about the fact that at the time of the Draft the Miami Dolphins ONLY had Chad Henne on roster, Chad Henne being damn close to total bust status, and yet they did not draft a single one of a record-breaking class of quarterbacks. A record number of quarterbacks were taken in the first three rounds. This year, I think the rookies from that class set all kinds of rookie records. You usually don't pick a quarterback thinking you're getting a great player immediately in the rookie year, but it IS possible, and it seems like every year we see that happen with increasing frequency. But not only did they have zero commitment to the idea that there's an upside POSSIBILITY that the guy you took is ready to play right away, they showed zero commitment to the idea of planning for the FUTURE by taking a guy that you can coach and develop.

And that's a sin. I'm sorry but it is.
I take it you don't think Devlin will be that kind of player? I'm asking in all honesty because some thought very highly of him

hooshoops
01-17-2012, 06:19 PM
ok...fine...no doubt we should have used a pick on a developmental qb...no argument with that...but imo yates and dalton aren't long term fixes so it doesn't bother me at all that we passed on them

phintim
01-17-2012, 06:24 PM
Ireland not moving in on Dalton, Yates, and Mallett proves he either doesn't know QB's or he just doesn't see them as important as the rest of the NFL. Now we are stuck at #8 or 9 with no hope of getting a young QB unless we trade-the-farm. Ireland is an idiot! !:bobdole:

Most of the rest of the NFL scouts agreed with Ireland and even the Pats just through one of their zillion picks at Mallet because they have the amo to spare. I would rather see Ireland learn to trade down and accumlate picks like the Pats have so we have that ammunition in the future than to lament some of these Qb's. Remember Henne was a pick by Parcells and maybe even Tony and you can be sure that Tony had something to do with picking Pouncy in the first round too.

ckparrothead
01-17-2012, 07:20 PM
I take it you don't think Devlin will be that kind of player? I'm asking in all honesty because some thought very highly of him

No, I don't. Devlin doesn't have a great arm but it would be OK if he played the game like he had a great arm. He doesn't have any confidence in his own ability to throw the football.

rent this space
01-17-2012, 08:09 PM
No, I don't. Devlin doesn't have a great arm but it would be OK if he played the game like he had a great arm. He doesn't have any confidence in his own ability to throw the football. nothing worse than a QB with no confidence

TedSlimmJr
01-17-2012, 08:37 PM
Miami has to get a point where they can actually develope quarterbacks... even 2nd and 3rd stringers.

The best organizations are the one's that draft mid-late round QB's with regularity... coach 'em up... and then trade them off for picks in the top 3 rounds. There's more to quarterbacks in the NFL than "He's my franchise quarterback for the next 10 years or he isn't".

Even backup quarterbacks with mediocre starter potential are worth their weight in gold. Someone will always be willing to compensate you extremely well for a QB who's flashed some ability as a spot starter along the way, or even plays big time in the pre-season consistently.

A quarterback doesn't have to be a future Hall of Famer or even be an elite player to hold tremendous value. That's the difference between the quarterback position and all the rest.

There will always be more job openings at the quarterback position than there are qualified candidates to fill them.

ckparrothead
01-18-2012, 12:44 AM
Miami has to get a point where they can actually develope quarterbacks... even 2nd and 3rd stringers.

The best organizations are the one's that draft mid-late round QB's with regularity... coach 'em up... and then trade them off for picks in the top 3 rounds. There's more to quarterbacks in the NFL than "He's my franchise quarterback for the next 10 years or he isn't".

Even backup quarterbacks with mediocre starter potential are worth their weight in gold. Someone will always be willing to compensate you extremely well for a QB who's flashed some ability as a spot starter along the way, or even plays big time in the pre-season consistently.

A quarterback doesn't have to be a future Hall of Famer or even be an elite player to hold tremendous value. That's the difference between the quarterback position and all the rest.

There will always be more job openings at the quarterback position than there are qualified candidates to fill them.

Exactly why I loathe the attitude toward TH position Ireland put on display this last draft.

Even aside from trading them, quality backups are VALUABLE. Look what Matt Moore did for us. Look what T.J. Yates did for the Texans.

Then look what Curtis Painter did to the Colts.

Injuries happen.

ChambersWI
01-18-2012, 01:01 AM
I need to re-read some of last year's draft threads, the board would have crashed in anger if we took Dalton.

If I remember though, the only QB we really liked that wasn't a first rounder was Kaepernick, and the 9ers traded up to the top of the 2nd to get him. I know the rumors were that we really liked Ponder/Locker.

Meh, as I've said if the coach likes a QB go get him.

hooshoops
01-18-2012, 01:02 AM
hell i'd argue that curtis painter was more valuable than tj yates and matt moore...painter got irsay the #1 pick and andrew luck...

TedSlimmJr
01-18-2012, 01:39 AM
I need to re-read some of last year's draft threads, the board would have crashed in anger if we took Dalton.

If I remember though, the only QB we really liked that wasn't a first rounder was Kaepernick, and the 9ers traded up to the top of the 2nd to get him. I know the rumors were that we really liked Ponder/Locker.

Meh, as I've said if the coach likes a QB go get him.



No doubt, but only when he was rumored to be a target by Miami with the 15th pick.

Dalton is the kid that Miami had Daboll bust in the room and start ranting and raving like a lunatic pretending to be a diva receiver in order to see Dalton's reaction.

I think it's safe to assume Andy Dalton is glad he ended up where he went.

PeterNorth
01-18-2012, 03:34 AM
nothing worse than a QB with no confidence

Except a coach, GM, and owner with no brains or balls.

The Confessor
01-18-2012, 06:52 AM
IMO, it most certainly does show that Ireland doesn't value the position. If he valued the position he wouldn't have passed on developmental opportunities. At the time of the Draft he only had one quarterback on roster. Free agency had not happened yet. It's easy in hindsight to say yeah but he planned to get Matt Moore, but what if Moore didn't want to come here? What if Carolina made him an offer to stay on as Newton's backup?

He had ONE quarterback on roster, and that quarterback was controversial with many (rightfully) not sold on him at all, and yet he ducked out of an entire record-breaking quarterback class. I think the implications of that are obvious.

Record Breaking Quarterback class?

Really? :lol:


Puhlease. Adding drama to a debate, just like raising your voice, doesn't make your point more valid.

greasyObnoxious
01-18-2012, 07:52 AM
Record Breaking Quarterback class?

Really? :lol:


Puhlease. Adding drama to a debate, just like raising your voice, doesn't make your point more valid.

laugh all you want, but this QB class set a record for most wins during a single season by rookie QB's

Finfanforever
01-18-2012, 11:41 AM
Most of the rest of the NFL scouts agreed with Ireland and even the Pats just through one of their zillion picks at Mallet because they have the amo to spare. I would rather see Ireland learn to trade down and accumlate picks like the Pats have so we have that ammunition in the future than to lament some of these Qb's. Remember Henne was a pick by Parcells and maybe even Tony and you can be sure that Tony had something to do with picking Pouncy in the first round too.


I can agree with that to some extent...but at the time ALL WE had was Henne??? You make a move for the future. Furthermore...if I am the GM...I do it every year until I find a Brees, Brady, Dalton, Yates, Manning, Ryan, Flacco, etc. to FINALLY put an end to this QB drought. No team didn't get to the playoffs because they didn't have a good center or a left tackle...or a corner...BUT if you don't have a good, solid QB....you have to buy a ticket to get into a playoff game. We see it EVERY YEAR! I stand by my Ireland either doesn't know QB's...or he doesn't have the right philosophy behind them...at least not by today's NFL pass-happy standards.

Finfanforever
01-18-2012, 11:45 AM
Miami has to get a point where they can actually develope quarterbacks... even 2nd and 3rd stringers.

The best organizations are the one's that draft mid-late round QB's with regularity... coach 'em up... and then trade them off for picks in the top 3 rounds. There's more to quarterbacks in the NFL than "He's my franchise quarterback for the next 10 years or he isn't".

Even backup quarterbacks with mediocre starter potential are worth their weight in gold. Someone will always be willing to compensate you extremely well for a QB who's flashed some ability as a spot starter along the way, or even plays big time in the pre-season consistently.

A quarterback doesn't have to be a future Hall of Famer or even be an elite player to hold tremendous value. That's the difference between the quarterback position and all the rest.

There will always be more job openings at the quarterback position than there are qualified candidates to fill them.

You are absolutely correct...that's why I think untimately Philpin will be the head coach with Bowles as DC. That makes the most since IMO at this point.

Finfanforever
01-18-2012, 11:47 AM
Most of the rest of the NFL scouts agreed with Ireland and even the Pats just through one of their zillion picks at Mallet because they have the amo to spare. I would rather see Ireland learn to trade down and accumlate picks like the Pats have so we have that ammunition in the future than to lament some of these Qb's. Remember Henne was a pick by Parcells and maybe even Tony and you can be sure that Tony had something to do with picking Pouncy in the first round too.

So what's worse...missing on a pick or never addressing the issue because you might "miss"???

ChrisHanson
01-18-2012, 12:15 PM
Ireland not moving in on Dalton, Yates, and Mallett proves he either doesn't know QB's or he just doesn't see them as important as the rest of the NFL. Now we are stuck at #8 or 9 with no hope of getting a young QB unless we trade-the-farm. Ireland is an idiot! !:bobdole:

Like hooshoops wrote, jury's still out. It's hard to call a 1st year QB star or bust. However, from what I can tell Yates sucks. Dalton seems to be "getting it", but he may crap the bed from here on out. Again, one season (or less) is not enough to call star or bust.

And Mallett has seen no playing time and is 3rd string at this point.

Harping about these QB's and bashing Ireland over not drafting them is not only premature, but out right dumb.

ChrisHanson
01-18-2012, 12:21 PM
We all know it's a team game...the point is there were 3 worthy QB's to be taken...and the fool passed on them. For a rookie to play well enough to get their teams to the playoffs speaks volumes as too their upside. Like it or not this is a pass oriented league...watch the playoffs and see that I am correct. The Dolphins should draft a QB EVERY YEAR...until the post Marino drought is over!

You do realize that Yates started 5 games and had 3 TD's with 3 INT's. Very Henne-like don't you think? Dalton started all 16 games and threw 20 TD's with 13 INT's. However, he had a 57% completion rate. Although better than Yates, there was nothing earth shattering about his play.

DaDolfan25
01-18-2012, 02:38 PM
Passing on all players made sense at the time. Of course you're saying this about dalton in hindsight. At the time, NOBODY was saying
OMG we passed on andy dalton, so don't say it now. Everyone was on board for this being the year to see if Henne works out or not. As for mallet, he went in the third round for a reason. And for TJ Yates, he did not guide his team to the playoffs. he did make sure the train didn't go off the tracks, but by no means did he play lights out, which is evident by how he played toward te end of the season when teams starting getting tape on him.

Finfanforever
01-18-2012, 02:41 PM
Like hooshoops wrote, jury's still out. It's hard to call a 1st year QB star or bust. However, from what I can tell Yates sucks. Dalton seems to be "getting it", but he may crap the bed from here on out. Again, one season (or less) is not enough to call star or bust.

And Mallett has seen no playing time and is 3rd string at this point.

I certainly don't appreciate the name calling...and just because I slammed Ireland for not addressing the issue does not make me dumb. At no point did I call Yates or Dalton a "star". Any time a rookie can lead his team to the playoffs...he has good potential. Having only Henne on the roster and by-passing 3 QB prospects...is however...DUMB!
Harping about these QB's and bashing Ireland over not drafting them is not only premature, but out right dumb. :crazy:

betadog
01-18-2012, 03:37 PM
I thought Dalton played really well as a rookie, but was not really that sold on Yates. Mallet would need a solid OL in front of him to be successful...

PeterNorth
01-18-2012, 05:04 PM
It's not really about Dalton, Yates, or Mallett or how they performed this season. It's about the fact that there were quite a few QB's this past draft seen as having potential and the fact that Ireland really did nothing to get any of them knowing the QB situation was dicey at absolute best already. It seems like he may have targeted someone, whether it be Locker, Ponder, or even Kaepernick, and once they got picked, he was done even considering it. That is an incredibly foolhardy stance to take when the team you control is in such a lousy state.

iwastherein72
01-18-2012, 06:51 PM
Something tells me Ryan Tannehill may be in our sights.

The Confessor
01-18-2012, 07:08 PM
laugh all you want, but this QB class set a record for most wins during a single season by rookie QB's

And that puts them above Marino, Elway and Jim Kelly? Seriously?

Yeah, I am laughing...sorry, but that is just funny.

finfan54
01-18-2012, 10:29 PM
how come no puttin the florida st. kid in here too ? doesnt fit the agenda.

teams sold the farm for Julio, dalton, and the fl st. kid. thats what i would call moronic. Look at Atlanta, they thought this guy would put them over the top. It made them a worse team. albeit a playoff team.

dalton is just much better than carson palmer. who CK was wanting badly as i recall. palmer is in the dust pan of history.

Ireland went and got moore, who did better than any QB drafted minus CAM once he got this offense together. Ireland didnt sell the farm for dalton. be glad.

Valandui
01-18-2012, 10:34 PM
Something tells me Ryan Tannehill may be in our sights.
I'd be very cool with that.

jlfin
01-18-2012, 11:18 PM
The problem with this hindsight criticism of Ireland is that it assumes he did not even consider the QB position. There were rumors circulating that the Phins were targeting Ponder or Locker. I think that Ireland felt that one or both of those QB's would be available with our 1st pick and that was a realistic assumption. I think all the fans and pundits were surprised when Tenn and Minnesota drafted Locker and Ponder as early as they did. This likely made the Phins go to plan B, which was to draft Pouncey (a very solid selection).
Its quite possible that Mallett was not hightly regarded by Ireland and that was also a view shared by many NFL teams, but that doesn't equate with neglecting the position.
This creates a difficult quandary this upcoming draft. If Ireland is sold on Tannehill, he may have to take him with the 8th/9th pick. If he trades down into the 15th-20th spot, some QB needy team may swoop in and pick him sooner.

greasyObnoxious
01-19-2012, 10:03 AM
And that puts them above Marino, Elway and Jim Kelly? Seriously?

Yeah, I am laughing...sorry, but that is just funny.

good luck finding that quote

Finfanforever
01-19-2012, 10:44 AM
The problem with this hindsight criticism of Ireland is that it assumes he did not even consider the QB position. There were rumors circulating that the Phins were targeting Ponder or Locker. I think that Ireland felt that one or both of those QB's would be available with our 1st pick and that was a realistic assumption. I think all the fans and pundits were surprised when Tenn and Minnesota drafted Locker and Ponder as early as they did. This likely made the Phins go to plan B, which was to draft Pouncey (a very solid selection).
Its quite possible that Mallett was not hightly regarded by Ireland and that was also a view shared by many NFL teams, but that doesn't equate with neglecting the position.
This creates a difficult quandary this upcoming draft. If Ireland is sold on Tannehill, he may have to take him with the 8th/9th pick. If he trades down into the 15th-20th spot, some QB needy team may swoop in and pick him sooner.

Thanks for your post...it makes perfect sense...if that is the way it went down. I sure would feel better if that were true but when Bill-a-cheat selected Mallett (the same guy who selected Brady) that raised some eyebrows with me!

ChrisHanson
01-19-2012, 10:46 AM
:crazy:

I didn't call you "dumb". I wrote that harping over these QB's is premature and dumb. It seems your reading comprehension is akin to your ability to use the quote function properly. lol (J/K) :chuckle:

Aqua and Orange
01-19-2012, 07:24 PM
IMO, it most certainly does show that Ireland doesn't value the position. If he valued the position he wouldn't have passed on developmental opportunities. At the time of the Draft he only had one quarterback on roster. Free agency had not happened yet. It's easy in hindsight to say yeah but he planned to get Matt Moore, but what if Moore didn't want to come here? What if Carolina made him an offer to stay on as Newton's backup?

He had ONE quarterback on roster, and that quarterback was controversial with many (rightfully) not sold on him at all, and yet he ducked out of an entire record-breaking quarterback class. I think the implications of that are obvious.

This too was the most frustrating part of last offseason for me, and this regime for that matter. I have seen NOTHING...not one thing that hints that this regime values the QB position. It's ridiculous as it appears to be the one simple element in the NFL success equation: You have a good to great QB, you have a playoff team.

Really have to wonder how much the QB position has come up in the new coaching interviews. Fisher going to St Louis because "they have a QB" makes me worry all over again that there may not be a completely solid plan in place.

irb123
01-20-2012, 01:50 PM
Well for starters (as ROOKIES) they both guided their teams to the playoffs...yeah...that will do.

So you're giving Yates credit for leading Houston to the playoffs? He just kept the train from coming off the tracks after Schaub went down. We didn't miss out on anything special last year...MAYBE Dalton...we'll see...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

cuban_refugee
01-21-2012, 08:34 PM
A new era begins in 2012, I guess we'll see what philosophy Ireland and Philbin will have. Who cares that we passed on QBs in the past....this is now.....and I believe our 1st Rd QB draft drought will be over.

Finfanforever
01-22-2012, 09:03 AM
A new era begins in 2012, I guess we'll see what philosophy Ireland and Philbin will have. Who cares that we passed on QBs in the past....this is now.....and I believe our 1st Rd QB draft drought will be over.

I agree...but only because Philpin KNOWS Qb's...maybe he will teach Ireland a thing or two!