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View Full Version : Switching gears...Steroids in the NFL?



knoxpk
01-28-2004, 12:05 PM
Just trying to get some opinons how prevalent do you think steroids are in the current NFL?
I will chime in and say it's pretty widespread, I would venture that there are some players on every team who does them.

With the big money commanded it would not be hard to beleive someone would take these to "get an edge" on a sport that not only grades your physical talents but your size,speed and even your appearance.

I got to thinking about this while watching a re-run of an Auburn/Alabama game in the very early 80's and they were introducing the starting offenses and defenses. It seemed funny when the announcers mentioned "THE BIG GUY" on the line playing DT who was about 230lbs. Now some 20 years later 230 lbs. is a medium LB or TE in the game. I think Roids have beena round awhile but probably started becoming more popular in football around the 80's and on.

To prove my point I will post links to pics of athletes probably most guilty of roids, Pro Bodybuilders, and how they changed as time went on.

On a final note(this is from PURE memory and could be off) I read an estimate stating that it is possible that nearly 50% of Olympic athletes are or were on The Juice prior to competing. I also read where there was a blind survey done among Olympic athletes and nearly 80% said they WOULD do the Juice to win a medal even if it meant taking 10 years off their lives.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this also.

http://www.briansdriveintheater.com/bodybuilder/sreeves3.jpg

http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/bodybuilder/spikeadams1.jpg

Steve Reeves and Spike AdAMS in the 1950's

http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/bodybuilder/charlesamato1.jpg
http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/bodybuilder/jimpayne1.jpg

EARLY 60'S


http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/bodybuilder/sergiooliva/sergiooliva6.jpg
http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/bodybuilder/imlachshearer1.jpg

http://www.briansdriveintheater.com/hercules/sergenubret10.jpg

LATE 60'S EARLY 70'S


http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/bodybuilder/dalehatcher1.jpg

http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/bodybuilder/frankzane/frankzane9.jpg

80'S


http://www.bodybuilders.com/yates.jpg

http://www.leehaney.com/a2.jpg

http://www.ronniecoleman.com/schneider/schneider-2001-olympia-04.htm


FINALLY THE 90'S AND TODAY

Stamos
01-28-2004, 12:13 PM
I hope you got the idea for this thread before finding these pictures, and not while looking at these pictures.

knoxpk
01-28-2004, 12:14 PM
Interesting article I found :

"It was in the mid-'80s that Black, working in the departments of pathology and pharmacology at Vanderbilt University at the time, was contacted by then-NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle.

Rozelle's message: It's time to tackle steroid use in the league.

Black, now president of Aegis Sciences Corp. in Nashville, said players ''were caught completely by surprise'' when they showed up for training camp in 1987 and were tested for steroids, although the testing was done only to determine the extent of use and without the threat of penalty.

In the wake of the tests, Black had reason to believe anywhere from 6.5% to 15% of NFL players had steroids in their system. The league, with the support of the NFL Players Association, began punishing players in 1989, and 17 players were suspended by 1990."

http://www.tennessean.com/sports/titans/archives/02/06/18598330.shtml?Element_ID=18598330


Remember some steroids have short "shlef lives" in your system and I understand there are some that as of yet are not detectable. Pretty interesting read though.
If ihad to guess the # 1 positions PRONE to abuse I would guess LB's, D-line,O-line and RB's.
I wouldnt "think" that DB's, Wr's and Qb's would find "as much" benefit form the juice as soem of the others due to the importance of muscle size in those positions.

knoxpk
01-28-2004, 12:15 PM
I hope you got the idea for this thread before finding these pictures, and not while looking at these pictures.

Yeah, i did, I looked for pics of bodybuilders after I wrote my 2 cents worth. LOL

:eek:

Scrap
01-28-2004, 12:47 PM
Good thread. I think that every team has it's "juicer's". As for positions, I wouldn't be suprised to see a few wr's on that list as well. There are some steroids that have less of a tendency to pack on the weight, and could be used to lower bodyfat, while adding strength. (I would more likely suspect them to do speed, though.)We also have to take into account that pro football teams have doctors, trainers,top-of-the line exercise equipment, and probably even nuritionists to ensure they get maximal gains in their training.These are things that have advanced over the years, so I wouldn't point to their physical improvements as totally a result of drugs.

akfinfan
01-28-2004, 12:58 PM
I think David Boston was using steroids at one time. Look at him 260 lbs of pure muscle!!

juniorseau55
01-28-2004, 01:03 PM
David Boston Uses steroids, his trainer has trained many ifbb bodybuilders. I know about steroids my self so if anyone wants to ask I'll answer your questions.


Many people use steroids in every team, you can say most starters use steroids. Can anyone find the time frame of how often players are tested?

Scrap
01-28-2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by juniorseau55
David Boston Uses steroids, his trainer has trained many ifbb bodybuilders. I know about steroids my self so if anyone wants to ask I'll answer your questions.


Many people use steroids in every team, you can say most starters use steroids. Can anyone find the time frame of how often players are tested? I'd bet that teams get a "head's up" before getting tested.

juniorseau55
01-28-2004, 01:08 PM
The teams know who juice or not, they are regularly tested for blood levels to make sure they are doing fine. One's health is at risk if they don't take care of themselves while on steroids. Has anyone seen how good romo takes care of himself and shannon sharpe? Now you know why guys hehe.


Sadly, the media exxagerates the use of steroids without knowing. They portray steroids as the ultimate and most evil chemical. They have banned ephedra now as well. Ephedra has shown to be a useful supplement when taken with care but some athletes aren't taking care of themselves and they end up in the cementery.

juniorseau55
01-28-2004, 01:12 PM
Zack Thomas uses steroids likely, Ricky Williams uses steroids, Junior Seau has to use steroids etc. There is likely a possability that players like this have cycled at least once. Ricky came into our team very lean during the offseason for example. His bodyfat has gone low in 2 months, a sign that he used a such half life steroid as stanozolol and test propiate.

juniorseau55
01-28-2004, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Scrappy
I'd bet that teams get a "head's up" before getting tested.


Its a must...... some steroids aren't detected. They mostly detect roids by their hair. its the best way to tell if you been juicing.

Scrap
01-28-2004, 01:15 PM
I think that in moderation, and under a doctor's supervision, it can be relatively safe. Keyword: relatively

CirclingWagons
01-28-2004, 01:17 PM
Jeff Zgonina is juiced for sure.

Scrap
01-28-2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by juniorseau55



Its a must...... some steroids aren't detected. They mostly detect roids by their hair. its the best way to tell if you been juicing. It stays in the hair for quite a while.

CirclingWagons
01-28-2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Scrappy
I think that in moderation, and under a doctor's supervision, it can be relatively safe. Keyword: relatively but not for a prolonged period of time: Lyle Alzado

minus
01-28-2004, 01:21 PM
Human Growth is the prefer steriods use by atheletes since is harder to detect.

Scrap
01-28-2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by CirclingWagons
but not for a prolonged period of time: Lyle Alzado I'm not to sure that the word moderation was in his vocabulary though.

Your right about the prolonged periods though.

juniorseau55
01-28-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Scrappy
I think that in moderation, and under a doctor's supervision, it can be relatively safe. Keyword: relatively

Its a must, u must keep these athletes healthy regardless. Coaches don't get into this because they aren't paid to advise their players not to take it.



Originally posted by CirclingWagons
Jeff Zgonina is juiced for sure.

I can tell he juices.



Originally posted by CirclingWagons
but not for a prolonged period of time: Lyle Alzado

Prolonged use of steroids is bad, specially if used at high dosages. If the cycle is there and that and you manage to keep your strengh gains then there shouldn't be no reason you would juice. Some bodybuilders juice up to 10 steroids in a cycle at high dosages and they look like beasts.

juniorseau55
01-28-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by minus
Human Growth is the prefer steriods use by atheletes since is harder to detect.


Sadly, Human Growth Hormones aren't enough for these animals. They have the money to pay for it of course since they are rich.

Cranx
01-28-2004, 01:47 PM
While I'm not denying that steroid use is prevalent within the NFL (at least relative to the population at large) I'd have to say it's a bit premature as well as immature to name specific players and accuse them without having even the slightest shred of evidence. The last time I checked, this was still the U.S. and the term "innocent until proven guilty" still applied (unless of course you're a foreign terrorist suspect, then your just sent to rot in Cuba.)

As someone who has done multidisciplinary-physical training since about 1992 and has taken formal (i.e. collegiate) courses on exercise physiology and nutrition, I can assure you that, in certain people, extraordinary, and often enormous, physiques can occur with proper nutrition and exercise. While steroids provide a boost there are legal (although somewhat more rigorous) ways of achieving virtually identical gains to those achieved through the use of steroids.

In future, unless you have concrete evidence to the contrary, it would be advisable to keep your opinions as to specific player’s steroid use out of the discussion; it's simply classless.

Scrap
01-28-2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Cranx
While I'm not denying that steroid use is prevalent within the NFL (at least relative to the population at large) I'd have to say it's a bit premature as well as immature to name specific players and accuse them without having even the slightest shred of evidence. The last time I checked, this was still the U.S. and the term "innocent until proven guilty" still applied (unless of course you're a foreign terrorist suspect, then your just sent to rot in Cuba.)

As someone who has done multidisciplinary-physical training since about 1992 and has taken formal (i.e. collegiate) courses on exercise physiology and nutrition, I can assure you that, in certain people, extraordinary, and often enormous, physiques can occur with proper nutrition and exercise. While steroids provide a boost there are legal (although somewhat more rigorous) ways of achieving virtually identical gains to those achieved through the use of steroids.

In future, unless you have concrete evidence to the contrary, it would be advisable to keep your opinions as to specific player’s steroid use out of the discussion; it's simply classless.

That's why I posted this: "We also have to take into account that pro football teams have doctors, trainers,top-of-the line exercise equipment, and probably even nuritionists to ensure they get maximal gains in their training.These are things that have advanced over the years, so I wouldn't point to their physical improvements as totally a result of drugs."

It's pretty safe to say Alzado used them. Actually, it's a well known fact.

knoxpk
01-28-2004, 02:28 PM
nice to see soem replies!Cranx I agree there are ways to get bigger and stronger w/out them but its hard for me to see soem kid coming out of college and putting on 30lbs of muscle in one summer. worse yet, coming out of High school and putting on 30llbs. of muscle in one summer.
I see quite a few kids getting picked up by major U's projected to play D-line weighing in the range of 230lbs. By the time they hit the field a year or 2 later they are a solid 250-270lbs!

the key words you used are: i"n certain people, extraordinary, and often enormous, physiques can occur with proper nutrition and exercise"

I doubt that 80 kids on one college roster fit that bill yet walk into a locker room of these same schools and you see hercules like builds all over!

Cranx
01-28-2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Scrappy


That's why I posted this: "We also have to take into account that pro football teams have doctors, trainers,top-of-the line exercise equipment, and probably even nuritionists to ensure they get maximal gains in their training.These are things that have advanced over the years, so I wouldn't point to their physical improvements as totally a result of drugs."

It's pretty safe to say Alzado used them. Actually, it's a well known fact.

Of course. I'm not disputing the Alzado thing, I'm just saying that it's pretty stupid to name guys like Ricky Williams, Zach Thomas, Jr Seau, etc when the person doing so has absolutely no clue what he's talking about. If you say something about Barrett Robbins or Ty Wheatley, that would be another story altogether as they've been implicated in the use of steroids but the other guys are being slammmed simply because they're muscle bound? Come on, that's just ignorant.

Scrap
01-28-2004, 02:36 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't acuse any particular player. I'm sure we all have one's that we would suspect though.

While we're mentioning Lyle, I found this link: http://www.geocities.com/bigcory94533/alzado.html

R.I.P. Lyle.

knoxpk
01-28-2004, 02:38 PM
Oh let me get this out of the way, btw let me know your opinion.

I think that steroids are OK IF a doctor is administering it!

C'mon a stripper on south beach can get implants, a fat boy can get his stomach stapled, Mikey jackson can have his nose cut off and skin bleached but a 30 something guy cant get test injected by a Doctor twice a month for cosmetic reasons?

Keep the replies comin'.

Cranx
01-28-2004, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by knoxpk
nice to see soem replies!Cranx I agree there are ways to get bigger and stronger w/out them but its hard for me to see soem kid coming out of college and putting on 30lbs of muscle in one summer. worse yet, coming out of High school and putting on 30llbs. of muscle in one summer.
I see quite a few kids getting picked up by major U's projected to play D-line weighing in the range of 230lbs. By the time they hit the field a year or 2 later they are a solid 250-270lbs!

the key words you used are: i"n certain people, extraordinary, and often enormous, physiques can occur with proper nutrition and exercise"

I doubt that 80 kids on one college roster fit that bill yet walk into a locker room of these same schools and you see hercules like builds all over!

I agree, thirty pounds in one summer is over the top but, I believe you're talking about the exception, not the rule. Sure, there are a lot of kids using juice to give them that extra edge, but I'd say the majority are not especially considering the fact that it has become increasingly more difficult to beat the system in this regard. All I'm saying is that we need to be cautious in this regard as some people want to label everyone who bulks, or drops body fat as a juicer.

One more example here is the fact that people's bodies react differently to different supplaments. As a person who does lifts four days a week (for strength and endurance these days, not bulk) I can personally attest to the dramatic affect creatine had on my physique. When I started my first cycle years ago in college, I literally gained 12 pounds in a matter of three weeks and, besides protein supplaments, that was all I took. Given the proper diet and a more rigorous training routine, I would likely have been able to pack on another 8-10 pounds with no additional supplamentation.

I no longer use creatine as I prefer lean body mass to size (I'm a cyclist and weight kills speed) but I wanted to offer this as a first hand example of how certain supplaments can work on certain people.

Cranx
01-28-2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by knoxpk
Oh let me get this out of the way, btw let me know your opinion.

I think that steroids are OK IF a doctor is administering it!

C'mon a stripper on south beach can get implants, a fat boy can get his stomach stapled, Mikey jackson can have his nose cut off and skin bleached but a 30 something guy cant get test injected by a Doctor twice a month for cosmetic reasons?

Keep the replies comin'.

While all of those procedures are damaging, steroids can have both physiological as well as psychological impacts on a person and, unless they are used under a doctor's supervision in cases where they are NECESSARY I see them in a totally different light than cosmetic surgeries.

It is always an extremely dangerous proposition to mess with drugs for cosmetic purposes as there really is no telling what kind of reaction your body is going to have to said drugs. Besides that, any doctor who prescribes 'roids for cosmetic purposes deserves to have his license yanked and his butt placed in the cooler.

Scrap
01-28-2004, 02:45 PM
I would like to eventually become a personal trainer. I'm studying the ISSA's material, the NSCA's material, and I have an ACE book on the way. While I personally believe in doing things the healthy way, I still think you make a great point knoxpk. One problem though. Steroids can give a person a real attitude problem, while Mikey's nose won't necessarily do that. (Okay, bad example) I'd be curious to see what the statistics are for death due to steroids, as compared to liposuction. They say lipo is actually a dangerous procedure.

knoxpk
01-28-2004, 02:50 PM
cranx good points and I also dont think we should name drop "suspected" juicers.

Like I said, I think it should be legal to get juice if it is done by a Dr. assuming we were given to option to make it legal.

Face it with several thousand muckity mucks like us admistering not to mention athletes at all levels if it were indeed that deadly we would easily see it. I would assume that if a dr DID do it(if ti were legal) the sickness and deaths we see NOW would go down even more!



Anyhow I agree also that proper training and supplaments is a key to grow and grow well. But I still have to figure that these kids ARE getting proper training and diets in college. In fact I dont know of any college with a team that has no str/conditioning coach!

Granted some people are just freaks and some are good football players on "the juice". I dont feel one way or the other about it but its something to talk about.

another thing I need to point out and it is also what go tme wondering in the 1st place.

230lb DT in college? and that was the BIG guy back in the 80's!

Its just unusual to me to see such a huge gain in one segment of the population yet 20 years later most people look about the same as they did in the 80's(minus the hair).
:cool:

to add to that another group of athletes experienced similar gains in size, pro bodybuilders, and many of them are admitted juicers!

Cranx
01-28-2004, 02:58 PM
Sport's nutrition and supplamentation took off in ways previously unimagined around the late 80's to early 90's so that explains part of the reason for the growth. In addition, training has become a total and complete science as opposed to simply a hit or miss proposition.

If you take note of the timeline of the late 80's to early 90's you'll notice something that will help to explain why so quantum a leap was made then. It was at this time that the Soviet bloc was crumbling and, particularly, the Berlin Wall fell. The East Germans were fanatical about their study of the human physiology and made strides in sport's medicine, training, and supplamentation that were previously unheard of. Once the wall fell many of these scientists filtered out to the west where they were able to parlay their incredible knowledge of athletic physique and training into a lot of money (something they never received in the former easter bloc.)

That should help to clear up some of the reason for the quantum leaps in the current athlete's physique as opposed to those of athletes past.

knoxpk
01-28-2004, 03:00 PM
scrappy, remember most of the population doing the juice is doing it on their owns. Its all about excess. I wonder what amount of test would let you experience good gains and still be ok for your body and mind!
Like you pointed out ephedra is also dangerous when taken in large doses. The few damage the opportunity for many!

knoxpk
01-28-2004, 03:02 PM
The East Germans were fanatical about their study of the human physiology and made strides in sport's medicine, training, and supplamentation that were previously unheard of

I am not too up to par on this but correct me if I am wrong. Werent the east germans ALSO the most up to speed on performance enhacners as well?

Cranx
01-28-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by knoxpk


I am not too up to par on this but correct me if I am wrong. Werent the east germans ALSO the most up to speed on performance enhacners as well?

Yup. They were notorious juicers on top of everything else but the rest still holds true: they were utter geniuses in the study of the human body's athletic prowess.

knoxpk
01-28-2004, 03:05 PM
cranx and you confirmed this:

HISTORY OF STEROID USESteroids were developed in the 1930sto help aging men maintain strength or to
raise levels of naturally occurring testoster-
one. In the 1950s, athletes began using ana-
bolic steroids after witnessing the domina-
tion of East Europeans and Soviets in an
international sports event. It was later dis-
covered that these athletes had used ste-
roids.


link:
http://66.218.71.225/search/cache?p=steroid+history&ei=UTF-8&n=20&fl=0&u=powayusd.sdcoe.k12.ca.us/pusdmchs/Library/steroids.pdf&w=steroid+history&d=4E06566CCC&c=430&yc=62897&icp=1

CirclingWagons
01-28-2004, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Scrappy
Yeah, I wouldn't acuse any particular player. I'm sure we all have one's that we would suspect though.

While we're mentioning Lyle, I found this link: http://www.geocities.com/bigcory94533/alzado.html

R.I.P. Lyle. Man...reading Alzado's quote on what he became after being on them for so long is incredibly sad.:(

Scrap
01-28-2004, 03:45 PM
Yeah it is.

Scrap
01-28-2004, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by knoxpk
scrappy, remember most of the population doing the juice is doing it on their owns. Its all about excess. I wonder what amount of test would let you experience good gains and still be ok for your body and mind!
Like you pointed out ephedra is also dangerous when taken in large doses. The few damage the opportunity for many! I wasn't the one who mentioned ephedra, but I don't think it should have been banned. I frequent a fitness messageboard, and I recalled a topic on ephedra. One poster put up statistics for emergency room visits per drug. It seems like aspirin is more dangerous. I'll let you read the post for yourself if you want.


http://www.fit-pro.com/forums/allposts.asp?Forum=appfp&ID=8148&access=&status=1&subject=Ephedra+kills%3F+What+about+Aspirin%3F

Pretty interesting stats.

knoxpk
01-28-2004, 04:10 PM
posted on 29-Jul 17:46 [ edited 0 times ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd like to add the following excerpt from http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/body_229smart.html:

According to the DAWN (Drug Abuse Warning Network) Detailed Emergency Department Tables of 2000, ephedrine seems to be very safe when compared to other drugs. These numbers reflect the number of mentions each drug received in regard to emergency room visits. Here's a quick list:

Drug Name - Number of Mentions

Acetaminophen (Tylenol) - 33,613

Alcohol-in-combination - 204,524

Ibuprofen (Advil) - 17,923

Aspirin - 15,657

Fluoxetine (Prozac) - 7,938

OTC sleep aids-Sominex/Nytol - 6,609

Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) - 6,270

Naproxen (Aleve) - 5,080

Caffeine - 1,674

Chlorpheniramine/aspirin - 1,116

Pseudoephedrine - 948 (A decongestant used in every cold/sinus formula around)

Ephedrine - 1,057





Straight off that site pretty interesting!

iceblizzard69
01-28-2004, 04:26 PM
Ephedra may not have caused many hospital visits, but the truth is that it is dangerous. Steve Bechler, a Baltimore Orioles pitcher, died from ephedra use last spring. The biggest problem with banning ephedra is that you can have it in your system and not even know it because I believe it is in certain cold medicines. However, I do not have a problem with the banning of the substance.

Scrap
01-28-2004, 04:35 PM
I think the main problem is when overweight people take it like it's candy in an attempt to lose weight. Perhaps Steve Bechler was overdoing it, I'm not sure.

juniorseau55
01-28-2004, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by Cranx


Of course. I'm not disputing the Alzado thing, I'm just saying that it's pretty stupid to name guys like Ricky Williams, Zach Thomas, Jr Seau, etc when the person doing so has absolutely no clue what he's talking about. If you say something about Barrett Robbins or Ty Wheatley, that would be another story altogether as they've been implicated in the use of steroids but the other guys are being slammmed simply because they're muscle bound? Come on, that's just ignorant.

I only gave examples of guys who might be using any sort of anabolic steroids. You don't understand, I worked with personal trainers that have had trained in the nfl. I just don't make things up.



Originally posted by Scrappy
Yeah, I wouldn't acuse any particular player. I'm sure we all have one's that we would suspect though.

While we're mentioning Lyle, I found this link: http://www.geocities.com/bigcory94533/alzado.html

R.I.P. Lyle.

We all do.



Originally posted by Cranx


I agree, thirty pounds in one summer is over the top but, I believe you're talking about the exception, not the rule. Sure, there are a lot of kids using juice to give them that extra edge, but I'd say the majority are not especially considering the fact that it has become increasingly more difficult to beat the system in this regard. All I'm saying is that we need to be cautious in this regard as some people want to label everyone who bulks, or drops body fat as a juicer.

One more example here is the fact that people's bodies react differently to different supplaments. As a person who does lifts four days a week (for strength and endurance these days, not bulk) I can personally attest to the dramatic affect creatine had on my physique. When I started my first cycle years ago in college, I literally gained 12 pounds in a matter of three weeks and, besides protein supplaments, that was all I took. Given the proper diet and a more rigorous training routine, I would likely have been able to pack on another 8-10 pounds with no additional supplamentation.

I no longer use creatine as I prefer lean body mass to size (I'm a cyclist and weight kills speed) but I wanted to offer this as a first hand example of how certain supplaments can work on certain people.

You gained water, none of it was lean body mass.



Originally posted by Cranx


While all of those procedures are damaging, steroids can have both physiological as well as psychological impacts on a person and, unless they are used under a doctor's supervision in cases where they are NECESSARY I see them in a totally different light than cosmetic surgeries.

It is always an extremely dangerous proposition to mess with drugs for cosmetic purposes as there really is no telling what kind of reaction your body is going to have to said drugs. Besides that, any doctor who prescribes 'roids for cosmetic purposes deserves to have his license yanked and his butt placed in the cooler.

Steroids without the proper care can be a disaster period. It is estimated that 90 percent of the athletes use steroids.


Originally posted by Scrappy
I would like to eventually become a personal trainer. I'm studying the ISSA's material, the NSCA's material, and I have an ACE book on the way. While I personally believe in doing things the healthy way, I still think you make a great point knoxpk. One problem though. Steroids can give a person a real attitude problem, while Mikey's nose won't necessarily do that. (Okay, bad example) I'd be curious to see what the statistics are for death due to steroids, as compared to liposuction. They say lipo is actually a dangerous procedure.

You have a misconception about steroids as well as the other guy. Even while on steroids, you have to work your muscle real hard in order to gain gains, some gains are not kept and some are but steroids aren't a form of cosmetical surgury.

Roid Rage has been proven to be a misconception. If you have attitute problems then you shouldn't take them at all.

juniorseau55
01-28-2004, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Scrappy
I wasn't the one who mentioned ephedra, but I don't think it should have been banned. I frequent a fitness messageboard, and I recalled a topic on ephedra. One poster put up statistics for emergency room visits per drug. It seems like aspirin is more dangerous. I'll let you read the post for yourself if you want.


http://www.fit-pro.com/forums/allposts.asp?Forum=appfp&ID=8148&access=&status=1&subject=Ephedra+kills%3F+What+about+Aspirin%3F

Pretty interesting stats.

Well here is the thing guys, when you are talking about ephedra you are talking about your blood pressure. At safe amounts, ephedra is a product that you can benefit for weight loss and mental awareness. Now you have a person that has no knowledge of the drug and just pops it in. Never monitors his health and lets everything pass by. Should the miscare be against the person or the drug? The person of course, its your body you know.



Originally posted by iceblizzard69
Ephedra may not have caused many hospital visits, but the truth is that it is dangerous. Steve Bechler, a Baltimore Orioles pitcher, died from ephedra use last spring. The biggest problem with banning ephedra is that you can have it in your system and not even know it because I believe it is in certain cold medicines. However, I do not have a problem with the banning of the substance.


As stated above, the media makes these drugs a lot worst and along the media you need to do more research. A number of overweight people have taken this drug while they have had heart illnesses. Why would you take a drug that will accelerate your heart beats per minute while you are having heart illness? Companies can't really be held liable for the mistakes of people. The label clearly states to consult a doctor before taking and people dont take it for granted.

Cranx
01-28-2004, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by juniorseau55


I only gave examples of guys who might be using any sort of anabolic steroids. You don't understand, I worked with personal trainers that have had trained in the nfl. I just don't make things up.

We all do.

You gained water, none of it was lean body mass.

Steroids without the proper care can be a disaster period. It is estimated that 90 percent of the athletes use steroids.

You have a misconception about steroids as well as the other guy. Even while on steroids, you have to work your muscle real hard in order to gain gains, some gains are not kept and some are but steroids aren't a form of cosmetical surgury.

Roid Rage has been proven to be a misconception. If you have attitute problems then you shouldn't take them at all.

:lol: :lol: 90%!!!! You're tokin' on crack pipes if you actually believe that. Exceptionally high estimates have 20-25% of athletes in certain sports (baseball) taking roids but 90% is simply an asinine figure that you either pulled out of your butt entirely or are gullible enough to believe anything anyone tells you. That figure isn't even plausible! 90%! HAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

As far as roid rage goes, make up your mind, it's either a misconception or it's not, you contradict yourself there. If you have an attitude problem and take 'roids then it should have zero affect one way or another if 'roid-rage is a misconception so why not take them if you're alrady wont to do so?

Finally, as far as creatine goes, it has been proven that it helps promote and build lean muscle mass in several double blind clinical studies by third party researchers so I'm quite sure that, given my gains in overall strength during tha time, that some of the gains were lean muscle mass. I was not claiming that I had gained all of that weight in muscle during the span of a couple of weeks however, I was simply pointing out that it is possible to gain a lot of weight in a short period of time and that steroids don't have to be involved.

Also, nobody said anything, one way or another, about how much work you do or do not have to do while on steroids so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. The fact remains that, within the context we are discussing here, they are a cosmetic drug.

Finally,
90%!!!!! That is friggin hilarious!!!
:shakeno:

juniorseau55
01-28-2004, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Cranx


:lol: :lol: 90%!!!! You're tokin' on crack pipes if you actually believe that. Exceptionally high estimates have 20-25% of athletes in certain sports (baseball) taking roids but 90% is simply an asinine figure that you either pulled out of your butt entirely or are gullible enough to believe anything anyone tells you. That figure isn't even plausible! 90%! HAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

As far as roid rage goes, make up your mind, it's either a misconception or it's not, you contradict yourself there. If you have an attitude problem and take 'roids then it should have zero affect one way or another if 'roid-rage is a misconception so why not take them if you're alrady wont to do so?

Finally, as far as creatine goes, it has been proven that it helps promote and build lean muscle mass in several double blind clinical studies by third party researchers so I'm quite sure that, given my gains in overall strength during tha time, that some of the gains were lean muscle mass. I was not claiming that I had gained all of that weight in muscle during the span of a couple of weeks however, I was simply pointing out that it is possible to gain a lot of weight in a short period of time and that steroids don't have to be involved.

Also, nobody said anything, one way or another, about how much work you do or do not have to do while on steroids so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. The fact remains that, within the context we are discussing here, they are a cosmetic drug.

Finally,
90%!!!!! That is friggin hilarious!!!
:shakeno:




Man if you had a clue, there are some things im not suppose to say here but if I mentioned them you would be surprised.


Now Mr know it all wimpy biker, I want to hear this one. How in the hell do you think you gained any lean muscle mass in 3 weeks LMAO(from creatine). I believe that was an over-statement just like calling steroids a cosmetic surgury

Abuse of steroids is something and steroids being a drug to prevent the body of certain ill patients from reaching a catabolic state is another situation. In the other hand you just don't gain anything while on steroids if you don't have the proper diet and nutrition, workout ethic. With that being said, your statement as steroids being a cosmetic drug just shows how much you lack knowledge of Anabolic Steroids. It takes a vigorious program for anyone to gain hard lean muscle mass, It takes proper care of yourself and lastly your nutrition.

Going back to my statement, 90 percent of the athletes have cycled at least once while on steroids or any precursors. I didn't mean that 90 percent of users use them now. Take your time and do your research and you can at least come back with a little more knowledge.

Lastly, cycling on any kind of testosterone along the Test- ester chain for as much as 10 weeks shouldn't be labeled steroid abuse. Testosterone is a naturally occuring substance within the body and a lot of people could save their money from buying any testosterone precursor by using the real stuff. If you want to call anything steroid abuse, look at the pro bodybuilding federation and ronnie coleman. Pro hormones have the same side effects as steroids and the product isn't potent enough.

Cranx
01-29-2004, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by juniorseau55





Man if you had a clue, there are some things im not suppose to say here but if I mentioned them you would be surprised.


Now Mr know it all wimpy biker, I want to hear this one. How in the hell do you think you gained any lean muscle mass in 3 weeks LMAO(from creatine). I believe that was an over-statement just like calling steroids a cosmetic surgury

Abuse of steroids is something and steroids being a drug to prevent the body of certain ill patients from reaching a catabolic state is another situation. In the other hand you just don't gain anything while on steroids if you don't have the proper diet and nutrition, workout ethic. With that being said, your statement as steroids being a cosmetic drug just shows how much you lack knowledge of Anabolic Steroids. It takes a vigorious program for anyone to gain hard lean muscle mass, It takes proper care of yourself and lastly your nutrition.

Going back to my statement, 90 percent of the athletes have cycled at least once while on steroids or any precursors. I didn't mean that 90 percent of users use them now. Take your time and do your research and you can at least come back with a little more knowledge.

Lastly, cycling on any kind of testosterone along the Test- ester chain for as much as 10 weeks shouldn't be labeled steroid abuse. Testosterone is a naturally occuring substance within the body and a lot of people could save their money from buying any testosterone precursor by using the real stuff. If you want to call anything steroid abuse, look at the pro bodybuilding federation and ronnie coleman. Pro hormones have the same side effects as steroids and the product isn't potent enough.

As usual you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about so I'm not even going to argue. The fact that you believe that 90% of athletes have cycled onto steroids is enough to convince me that you're an individual who hears/reads moronic information from some half witted source and believes it to be true and, when someone calls you on the FACT that there is no possible way that that which you are espousing could be true you have to defend your position to death with an "I can never be wrong..." approach; it's pathetic.

Seriously, please do us all a favor and please cease your posting on these boards; you contribute nothing of a positive or intelligent nature.

P.S. I'm done with you once and for all, welcome to my ignore list containing exactly one person: YOU!

juniorseau55
01-29-2004, 04:32 AM
Originally posted by Cranx


As usual you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about so I'm not even going to argue. The fact that you believe that 90% of athletes have cycled onto steroids is enough to convince me that you're an individual who hears/reads moronic information from some half witted source and believes it to be true and, when someone calls you on the FACT that there is no possible way that that which you are espousing could be true you have to defend your position to death with an "I can never be wrong..." approach; it's pathetic.

Seriously, please do us all a favor and please cease your posting on these boards; you contribute nothing of a positive or intelligent nature.

P.S. I'm done with you once and for all, welcome to my ignore list containing exactly one person: YOU!


You must be pissed off because nothing you said has any relevance. There are Tennis players that have cycled on roids, football players(college and pro), basketball, swimmers, track and field, weight lifting, bodybuilding, cycling, there is a long list.

I actually know about every single steroid, I been bodybuilding for a while for your information. Yes I have cycled, not anymore and people come up to me to design them cycles.

It seems that you are always right in every post and you are not. Do some research before opening your crap hole. I for a fact known suppliers to athletes in the Miami Area and little do you know but there is this big group of athletes who have cycled.

You have this misconception of a steroid being only used as a cosmetic drug(there is not such term) and its not, it increases strengh and performance, protein synthesis, red blood cell production for any kind of athlete. It uses extend more for cancer patients, disorders, aids, lukemia, asthma, sex hormones.

juniorseau55
01-29-2004, 06:35 AM
Now I know who you are, you must the expo. The guy that I twisted his nipples like raisings in open saltwater sea. I like the way you express yourself about me. You are beggining to sound like a little japanese girl inlove of their teacher.

knoxpk
01-29-2004, 02:47 PM
the topic has gone down the tubes.

Let eme say this: I DO beleive that more than 10% of football players have cycled. I dont know about 90% BUT if you read Lyle Alzados tribute page he mentions that 90% of the ATHLETES HE KNEW were juicing. Its fair to say that he knew his wjole team isnt it?
Its also fair to say that he probably knew several players from OTHER teams right?
Now dont get me wrong I still think 90% is to high but I think 10% is way too low!

Remember there are roids that arer in and out in 48 hours. The chance of catching someone is slim. Not to mention since football is what 3 months? You can start a cycle TODAY and do them for 9 months(way too much but you get the point) bulk up to 10 or 15 lbs over your playing weight, and by careful diet and training you can hold most of that till the season ends.


If I were to GUESS(no flames please) I would say about 50% have cycled at least ONCE in their life and perhaps 30% currently use.

Thats my GUESS!:D

knoxpk
01-29-2004, 03:00 PM
seau is this typical of roid gains?
PS this is not an endorsement for roids btw!

My younger brother was always active in HS, captain of the wrestling team yada yada. His senior year he weighed about 145lbs. After 3 years of working out and natural growth(started as 125lbs sophmore). After he graduated the biggest I ever saw him was about 155-160lbs. at 5'7" or so. Not lean but not fat.

One day one of the guys he knew at the gym talked him into a cycle(which ended up being 2 or 3 cycles). He got up to about 215lbs 30" waist bench over 400lbs, squat 500lbs, leg press around 1000lbs!!!!!!
He hurt his back right before he was going to do a show(his 1st and only) did not really push weights the last monht and a half and weighed in at about 170lbs Rock solid and ripped @5'7" tall!

Now I know he went down to very mild roids about 3 months out and some other things to help remove water but do you see 40-50lb weight increases in folks without changing pants sizes in a year?

Cranx
01-29-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by knoxpk
the topic has gone down the tubes.

Let eme say this: I DO beleive that more than 10% of football players have cycled. I dont know about 90% BUT if you read Lyle Alzados tribute page he mentions that 90% of the ATHLETES HE KNEW were juicing. Its fair to say that he knew his wjole team isnt it?
Its also fair to say that he probably knew several players from OTHER teams right?
Now dont get me wrong I still think 90% is to high but I think 10% is way too low!

Remember there are roids that arer in and out in 48 hours. The chance of catching someone is slim. Not to mention since football is what 3 months? You can start a cycle TODAY and do them for 9 months(way too much but you get the point) bulk up to 10 or 15 lbs of your playing weight, and by careful diet and training you can hold most of that till the season ends.


If I were to GUESS(no flames please) I would say about 50% have cycled at least ONCE in their life and perhaps 30% currently use.

Thats my GUESS!:D

Don't worry bro, I'm not gonna flame you for stating an opinion. Basically, JS55 has the intelligence of a peanut and tries to pass his opinions off as doctrine every time he posts; he's pretty much hated by all on these boards.

As I said, I added him to my "ignore" list because I could feel myself getting dumber every time I read one of his posts! :drool:

As far as the 'roids thing goes, I'd still say that 50% is a very high number but I'll also say that I wouldn't be totally shocked if that turned out to be somewhat accurate. As far as Alzado's book goes; I can't say that I've ever read it but I will say this: people have a tendancy to severely overexaggerate numbers when they are trying to make a point. In Alzado's, and even Conseco's (sp?), cases I suspect them of using the numbers they did more as a way to create a buzz than they did for the sake of accuracy.

The fact of the matter is, we will never really know how many athletes are or are not using but I'll stick with the more widespread studies done on this subject and say that it's a minority of athletes in major sports that are doing this, not anywhere near a majority.

knoxpk
01-29-2004, 03:10 PM
cranx well taken!
It is a hard thing to do to openly accuse a group of people of something that they may or may not do. The studies do show that about 15% are Caught(or were at one time when there was no penalty) using.
I would think that these guys have it down to a science though. I beleive most times getting caught is a matter of being careless or TOOOO dependant on something. i have read several articles about water based roids that are gone in 24-48 hours. I have also read where growth hormone is difficult to detect!

Now 50% may be way high but that was only for a "one time and no more" kind of player. My actual estimate of current users is somewhere around 30%.

The fact is roids are EASY to get. I would bet that 75% of all gyms have at least one dealer. And in the case I posted above(my brothers gym) there were 3 or 4. If it s easy for a gym rat to get a pro athlete would have NO trouble getting it and maybe even getting a Dr's advice ,off the record of course!

So yes the fact is studies SHOW about 15% but again I will estimate around 30% due to the nature of the sport!

Cranx
01-29-2004, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by knoxpk
cranx well taken!
It is a hard thing to do to openly accuse a group of people of something that they may or may not do. The studies do show that about 15% are Caught(or were at one time when there was no penalty) using.
I would think that these guys have it down to a science though. I beleive most times getting caught is a matter of being careless or TOOOO dependant on something. i have read several articles about water based roids that are gone in 24-48 hours. I have also read where growth hormone is difficult to detect!

Now 50% may be way high but that was only for a "one time and no more" kind of player. My actual estimate of current users is somewhere around 30%.

The fact is roids are EASY to get. I would bet that 75% of all gyms have at least one dealer. And in the case I posted above(my brothers gym) there were 3 or 4. If it s easy for a gym rat to get a pro athlete would have NO trouble getting it and maybe even getting a Dr's advice ,off the record of course!

So yes the fact is studies SHOW about 15% but again I will estimate around 30% due to the nature of the sport!

I agree, they are exceptionally easy to get and law enforcement simply does not take measures to deal with users or even small time dealers. As a former police officer I can state with relative certainty that 'roids simply are not that high of a priority as they do not have the social implications inherent with other drugs (i.e. heroin, cocaine, meth, etc.)

The sad fact is however, that steroids are exceptionally addictive to their users from a psychological perspective. In other words, they become so addicted to the physical strides they are making that they fear NOT using steroids and losing their physique more than they fear the long term damaging effects of the drugs.

Finally, I would also agree that there is at least one 'roids dealer in just about every gym in the U.S. and there are probably a lot more than that down here (Southern California) since I live not two hours from the border of Mexico and you can literally get any kind of steroid you want down there and transport it back across the boarder with ease.

Steroids are dangerous, wrong, stupid and harmful but people will keep taking them because they're either too lazy to do the work they'd have to in order to achieve similar gains or they're so narcissistic that they believe looking good is the end all and be all of everything there is here on Earth. It's pretty sad actually.

juniorseau55
01-29-2004, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by Cranx


Don't worry bro, I'm not gonna flame you for stating an opinion. Basically, JS55 has the intelligence of a peanut and tries to pass his opinions off as doctrine every time he posts; he's pretty much hated by all on these boards.

As I said, I added him to my "ignore" list because I could feel myself getting dumber every time I read one of his posts! :drool:

As far as the 'roids thing goes, I'd still say that 50% is a very high number but I'll also say that I wouldn't be totally shocked if that turned out to be somewhat accurate. As far as Alzado's book goes; I can't say that I've ever read it but I will say this: people have a tendancy to severely overexaggerate numbers when they are trying to make a point. In Alzado's, and even Conseco's (sp?), cases I suspect them of using the numbers they did more as a way to create a buzz than they did for the sake of accuracy.

The fact of the matter is, we will never really know how many athletes are or are not using but I'll stick with the more widespread studies done on this subject and say that it's a minority of athletes in major sports that are doing this, not anywhere near a majority.



He's a 31 year old man who has no manners and its angry at the world. He is very childish and imature and has been known to make these comments that aren't appropiate to other uses in forms of insults He likes thinking others aren't intelligent in this board and assumes he's right yet in this thread he has not any knowledge of anabolic steroids.

His knowledge shows so short that he calls it a cosmetic drug which is not. Steroids are classified as estrogens, androgens, progestogens, corticosteroids which they maintain the body's reproductive system and are led from male hormones such as testosterone.

juniorseau55
01-29-2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by knoxpk
the topic has gone down the tubes.

Let eme say this: I DO beleive that more than 10% of football players have cycled. I dont know about 90% BUT if you read Lyle Alzados tribute page he mentions that 90% of the ATHLETES HE KNEW were juicing. Its fair to say that he knew his wjole team isnt it?
Its also fair to say that he probably knew several players from OTHER teams right?
Now dont get me wrong I still think 90% is to high but I think 10% is way too low!

Remember there are roids that arer in and out in 48 hours. The chance of catching someone is slim. Not to mention since football is what 3 months? You can start a cycle TODAY and do them for 9 months(way too much but you get the point) bulk up to 10 or 15 lbs over your playing weight, and by careful diet and training you can hold most of that till the season ends.


If I were to GUESS(no flames please) I would say about 50% have cycled at least ONCE in their life and perhaps 30% currently use.

Thats my GUESS!:D


My friend just like the rest of the fans, the fans are oblivious. Go to a gym and stay there for a month you'll be seeing familiar faces change. You don't understand the life of a professional athlete, they need to be in the best shape that they can throughout their season. They devote their life since they were children to the sport and once they find out their opponents have an advantage they resort to the use of anabolic steroids.

Imagine training and recouperating your body at fast rates. That is the reason why we have supplements to aid our bodies with recovery and muscle tissue breakdown.

As far as roids being out of the system in 48 hours, those aren't steroids. They are likely anti-estrogens. When a steroid user finishes a cycle, his testosterone levels decrease and his estrogen levels increase, thus increasing the chances of the athlete having female like charectericstics (gyno, voice, etc). We are talking about the male body since our main hormone in charge of male characteristics is testosterone. They follow up to take an estrogen that increases testosterone levels to bring natural levels of testosterone and to block estrogen from its receptors. Look for info on arimidix, nolva, clomid, proviron.

Androgens are used to bulk up and to make strength gains. Such as testosterone itself which comes in 3 forms: Test enanthates, Test cypionate, Test suspension and test propionate. All of these testosterones have the same ester structure. Depending on the characteristics that every steroid gives us, they are stacked for many reasons.

This Androgen breaks down in our body to produce lean muscle gains. We might find that the results of a certain androgens will give us pure lean muscle mass as opposed to water retention. A particular androgen might be really safe but it isn't as androgenic but gives your lean muscle hardness.

There are certain steroids that are clean enough because they can act as an androgens while aromitizing very low. By the way aromatization is when testosterone converts to estrogen.

Some steroid users stack up to 10 steroids in a cycle, these are people who have been using them for a while and the body is used to these chemicals responses so the chemicals adapt and doesn't become as potent. Dosages have to be increased, so they are basically abusing steroids. To be truthful, steroids aren't as dangerous as the media makes them out to be, but athletes aren't taking care of themselves or aren't consulting professionals. While the steroid does give distinct characteristics to our body, its intent is to increase the athletes performance which he will gain through vigorous activities and fast recovery rates.



Originally posted by knoxpk
seau is this typical of roid gains?
PS this is not an endorsement for roids btw!

My younger brother was always active in HS, captain of the wrestling team yada yada. His senior year he weighed about 145lbs. After 3 years of working out and natural growth(started as 125lbs sophmore). After he graduated the biggest I ever saw him was about 155-160lbs. at 5'7" or so. Not lean but not fat.

One day one of the guys he knew at the gym talked him into a cycle(which ended up being 2 or 3 cycles). He got up to about 215lbs 30" waist bench over 400lbs, squat 500lbs, leg press around 1000lbs!!!!!!
He hurt his back right before he was going to do a show(his 1st and only) did not really push weights the last monht and a half and weighed in at about 170lbs Rock solid and ripped @5'7" tall!

Now I know he went down to very mild roids about 3 months out and some other things to help remove water but do you see 40-50lb weight increases in folks without changing pants sizes in a year?


Any such increases in lean mass are due to either steroids of precursors such as pro hormones, but to get at that point it takes hard work. You just don't inject and expect size, size comes in the gym and fast when you train like a dog.

In a year a 50 pound increase is average now a days while on anabolics. Lets say you cycle for 3 months and gain 20 lbs and you keep them. If your post cycle is succesful then you will likely keep most of those pounds. Keep taking breaks and you can easily gain 60 lbs in a year. Proper care while on steroids will make the use safe however, prolong use of steroids without the proper care is fatal.

juniorseau55
01-29-2004, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by Cranx


I agree, they are exceptionally easy to get and law enforcement simply does not take measures to deal with users or even small time dealers. As a former police officer I can state with relative certainty that 'roids simply are not that high of a priority as they do not have the social implications inherent with other drugs (i.e. heroin, cocaine, meth, etc.)

The sad fact is however, that steroids are exceptionally addictive to their users from a psychological perspective. In other words, they become so addicted to the physical strides they are making that they fear NOT using steroids and losing their physique more than they fear the long term damaging effects of the drugs.

Finally, I would also agree that there is at least one 'roids dealer in just about every gym in the U.S. and there are probably a lot more than that down here (Southern California) since I live not two hours from the border of Mexico and you can literally get any kind of steroid you want down there and transport it back across the boarder with ease.

Steroids are dangerous, wrong, stupid and harmful but people will keep taking them because they're either too lazy to do the work they'd have to in order to achieve similar gains or they're so narcissistic that they believe looking good is the end all and be all of everything there is here on Earth. It's pretty sad actually.


The fbi is usualy on the lookout for steroid dealers and sources. Steroids are sold illegally as cocaine and sentences are very similar to those who sell it. Yes, law inforcement does put a great deal amount and time to track these people down.

knoxpk
01-30-2004, 10:13 AM
As far as roids being out of the system in 48 hours, those aren't steroids. They are likely anti-estrogens. When a steroid user finishes a cycle, his testosterone levels decrease and his estrogen levels increase, thus increasing the chances of the athlete having female like charectericstics (gyno, voice, etc). We are talking about the male body since our main hormone in charge of male characteristics is testosterone. They follow up to take an estrogen that increases testosterone levels to bring natural levels of testosterone and to block estrogen from its receptors. Look for info on arimidix, nolva, clomid, proviron.

Youa re right!! I did some more research. the more common roids are out within 2 weeks to 3 months.

I could "hypthetically" see an athlete gving up on d-boll and other roids for some of the water based roids 3 months from trainig camp and 2-3 weeks out give up on the roids all together and just aminitain for 3 months.

As far as what you said about the gain, well he worked his *** off! He was in good shape before but I felt he looked HUGE at 5'7" and 200-210lbs. Unreal! I dont know if he had genetic potenitla to do that naturally but he was BIG and pretty lean, considering he want on his "fat cutting cycle" just yet.


anyway, even though you both oppose each others opionos I have gotten valuable feedback from the 2 of you!
appreciate the input fellas!:D

knoxpk
01-30-2004, 10:14 AM
As far as roids being out of the system in 48 hours, those aren't steroids. They are likely anti-estrogens. When a steroid user finishes a cycle, his testosterone levels decrease and his estrogen levels increase, thus increasing the chances of the athlete having female like charectericstics (gyno, voice, etc). We are talking about the male body since our main hormone in charge of male characteristics is testosterone. They follow up to take an estrogen that increases testosterone levels to bring natural levels of testosterone and to block estrogen from its receptors. Look for info on arimidix, nolva, clomid, proviron.

Youa re right!! I did some more research. the more common roids are out within 2 weeks to 3 months.

I could "hypthetically" see an athlete gving up on d-boll and other roids for some of the water based roids 3 months from trainig camp and 2-3 weeks out give up on the roids all together and just aminitain for 3 months.

As far as what you said about the gain, well he worked his *** off! He was in good shape before but I felt he looked HUGE at 5'7" and 200-210lbs. Unreal! I dont know if he had genetic poteniial to do that naturally but he was BIG and pretty lean, considering he wasnt on his "fat cutting cycle" just yet.


anyway, even though you both oppose each others opionos I have gotten valuable feedback from the 2 of you!
appreciate the input fellas!:D

knoxpk
01-30-2004, 10:20 AM
As far as roids being out of the system in 48 hours, those aren't steroids. They are likely anti-estrogens. When a steroid user finishes a cycle, his testosterone levels decrease and his estrogen levels increase, thus increasing the chances of the athlete having female like charectericstics (gyno, voice, etc). We are talking about the male body since our main hormone in charge of male characteristics is testosterone. They follow up to take an estrogen that increases testosterone levels to bring natural levels of testosterone and to block estrogen from its receptors. Look for info on arimidix, nolva, clomid, proviron.

Youa re right!! I did some more research. the more common roids are out within 2 weeks to 3 months.

I could "hypthetically" see an athlete gving up on d-boll and other roids for some of the water based roids 3 months from trainig camp and 2-3 weeks out give up on the roids all together and just aminitain for 3 months.

As far as what you said about the gain, well he worked his *** off! He was in good shape before but I felt he looked HUGE at 5'7" and 200-210lbs. Unreal! I dont know if he had genetic poteniial to do that naturally but he was BIG and pretty lean, considering he wasnt on his "fat cutting cycle" just yet.


anyway, even though you both oppose each others opionos I have gotten valuable feedback from the 2 of you!
appreciate the input fellas!:D

juniorseau55
01-30-2004, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by knoxpk


Youa re right!! I did some more research. the more common roids are out within 2 weeks to 3 months.

I could "hypthetically" see an athlete gving up on d-boll and other roids for some of the water based roids 3 months from trainig camp and 2-3 weeks out give up on the roids all together and just aminitain for 3 months.

As far as what you said about the gain, well he worked his *** off! He was in good shape before but I felt he looked HUGE at 5'7" and 200-210lbs. Unreal! I dont know if he had genetic potenitla to do that naturally but he was BIG and pretty lean, considering he want on his "fat cutting cycle" just yet.


anyway, even though you both oppose each others opionos I have gotten valuable feedback from the 2 of you!
appreciate the input fellas!:D

You sound too curious about steroids, if you are going to try a cycle, pm me, I don't want your life being as risk do to unproper usage.

juniorseau55
01-30-2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by knoxpk


anyway, even though you both oppose each others opionos I have gotten valuable feedback from the 2 of you!
appreciate the input fellas!:D [/B]

His opinions don't count since he knows nothing about steroids themselves.