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jim1
01-21-2012, 02:03 PM
Matt Flynn:

career stats: about 1000 yards passing, 9TDs, 5 INTs, 92 QBR

Not bad, but do a couple of good NFL games warrant throwing money and/or draft picks at this guy? Were there not reasons why he lasted until the 7th round of the 2008 draft? I hate to say it because it's so obvious, but does anyone remember AJ Feeley? Wasn't there supposed to be a lesson learned there about desperately throwing draft picks and/or money at a QB with a very limited track record? Is anyone certain that he's better than Matt Moore, and wouldn't bringing in Matt Flynn at a hefty cost potentially cause some major issues?

Joe Philbin is most likely a Matt Flynn guy for obvious reasons- Mike McCoy, having coached Matt Moore in Carolina, would most likely have chosen to stick with him as opposed to making a big play for Flynn . If Flynn could be brought in at a reasonable price and compete with Moore, that's fine with me. But one good game does not a QB make- if we end up coughing up a high draft pick to Green Bay or throwing a ton of money at Flynn, I'll have some serious doubt as to whether or not that's a smart direction to go in.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/410711

crossfit93
01-21-2012, 02:19 PM
Matt Flynn:

career stats: about 1000 yards passing, 9TDs, 5 INTs, 92 QBR

Not bad, but do a couple of good NFL games warrant throwing money and/or draft picks at this guy? Were there not reasons why he lasted until the 7th round of the 2008 draft? I hate to say it because it's so obvious, but does anyone remember AJ Feeley? Wasn't there supposed to be a lesson learned there about desperately throwing draft picks and/or money at a QB with a very limited track record? Is anyone certain that he's better than Matt Moore, and wouldn't bringing in Matt Flynn at a hefty cost potentially cause some major issues?

Joe Philbin is most likely a Matt Flynn guy for obvious reasons- Mike McCoy, having coached Matt Moore in Carolina, would most likely have chosen to stick with him as opposed to making a big play for Flynn . If Flynn could be brought in at a reasonable price and compete with Moore, that's fine with me. But one good game does not a QB make- if we end up coughing up a high draft pick to Green Bay or throwing a ton of money at Flynn, I'll have some serious doubt as to whether or not that's a smart direction to go in.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/410711

Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. nuff said

KingDolphin57
01-21-2012, 02:25 PM
Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. nuff saidHere we go again.lol

2413fanphins
01-21-2012, 02:27 PM
the new coach has ties to him. If he feels he is better than matt moore, which I would venture a guess that he does, he should bring him in. He knows the offense and can help others. Looks like he plays well in said offense in limited oppurtunity. I'm for bringing him in.

natetherock
01-21-2012, 03:07 PM
I think there are a few things to consider here rather than just dismissing this guy because of limited game experience and a 7th round draft selection.

1. He has worked with Tom Clements for 4 yrs in GB. Clements is a guy who has proven he can develop young QB talent.
2. Much like Aaron Rodgers he has had time to sit behind a pro bowl QB and learn the position.
3. He knows the system Philbin will likely implement here in Miami.

Having said these things I agree that overpaying for Flynn would be a tremendous mistake. I think we have to take a shot on him within reason given his potential upside. I think a major factor will be whether or not Philbin wants him here. Philbin worked with Flynn daily in GB and his endorsement will mean more than anything IMO.

If Philbin brings Flynn in as the starter, he is basically staking his reputation and success as a first year HC on Flynn. That would be enough for me.

rrrrphin
01-21-2012, 03:50 PM
This will be Philbin and Ireland's first test.
Ireland's history indicates that he does not like to "pay up" to make the big move. he will make the move only if he thinks he is getting value. while it is an admirable conservative quality, sometimes i wish he would take a risk.

Hayden Fox
01-21-2012, 04:40 PM
I love Matt Flynn. I would rather give a ton of loot to him and keep the picks that might have been given up for RGIII. Too many holes in the roster in the coming years to give up all the picks.

PhinsTD
01-21-2012, 05:06 PM
I love Matt Flynn. I would rather give a ton of loot to him and keep the picks that might have been given up for RGIII. Too many holes in the roster in the coming years to give up all the picks.

Yes and no for me. I honestly think Miami is a good QB away from being a playoff team. I agree that the team has some holes, but I'm not sure they have as many as the media/some fans seem to think.

There are some internal options for RG/RT in Garner, Jerry, Murtha, so I think one hole can be filled internally (at least). DeCastro could make that line potentially elite.

Taking Upshaw could make the defense potentially elite.

Draft smartly the rest of the way, make a savvy free agent move, and get a QB to give us the level that Moore did at the end (or better), and this team is a playoff team to me.

All that to say: If you truly believe RGIII is the guy for you, and will be that QB, he's worth the picks and resources. On this team, as close as they are to being a really good team, if you feel he's that guy, he's worth it.

Personally, I don't believe he is, but at some point, you have to show conviction to get the guy you believe in at the QB position.

jim1
01-21-2012, 05:18 PM
I love Matt Flynn. I would rather give a ton of loot to him and keep the picks that might have been given up for RGIII. Too many holes in the roster in the coming years to give up all the picks.

You love Matt Flynn based on what?

jim1
01-21-2012, 05:21 PM
Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. nuff said

Tom Brady was a once in a generation draft pick, probably the greatest draft pick ever. Matt Flynn has had one great game, the last game of the season that as far as I recall meant nothing as the Lions were already in the playoffs, and other than that he has a minute track record. 'Nuff said.

finsfanjay13
01-21-2012, 06:13 PM
Tom Brady was a once in a generation draft pick, probably the greatest draft pick ever. Matt Flynn has had one great game, the last game of the season that as far as I recall meant nothing as the Lions were already in the playoffs, and other than that he has a minute track record. 'Nuff said.

You bring in Philbin who knows Flynn inside and out. If he doesn't think Flynn can be a franchise QB, he tells the front office and they move on. Less "guessing" and more "knowing", though you can *never* be sure until it becomes a reality.

bcwhite
01-21-2012, 06:23 PM
Matt Flynn is trash and we want nothing to do with him. Look at the highlights from the detroit game. One td broken tackel by nelson another is a screen pass and a third is on a free play. Yes Flynn made the right decisions but he is not a franchise qb. I saw the Flyyn = Marino post give me a break flynn is aj feeley

Hayden Fox
01-21-2012, 06:50 PM
You love Matt Flynn based on what?

Why don't I link you to the thread I started prior to his Lions start...see my comments and look how all the Fin Fans opinions change as the game goes on...

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?311407-Matt-Flynn-Might-Get-a-Long-Look-Sunday&highlight=

jim1
01-21-2012, 07:26 PM
Why don't I link you to the thread I started prior to his Lions start...see my comments and look how all the Fin Fans opinions change as the game goes on...

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?311407-Matt-Flynn-Might-Get-a-Long-Look-Sunday&highlight=

OK, for giggles I went through the thread- you think that Flynn is accurate and he's a lock to come to Miami now that Philbin is HC. I saw no other comments of any merit. So your love of Flynn is based on one game? I could pick out several games and say that Matt Moore is very accurate...

The point is, it was just one very good game. That's not exactly a rock solid foundation for loving a QB- you loved Landry Jones iirc and I assume that you saw way more of that stiff than Matt Flynn. If Flynn is available at the right price, I'm fine with bringing him in. But to "love" a QB after one great game- I'm not a buyer of that. No way I'm paying Flynn ludicrous Kevin Kolb money to come to Miami, and no way I'm coughing up a high draft pick for him if the Packers put the franchise tag on him, if they can do that. Infatuation for Matt Flynn after one really good game just doesn't add up to me.

Rhody Phins Fan
01-21-2012, 07:55 PM
Matt Flynn is trash and we want nothing to do with him. Look at the highlights from the detroit game. One td broken tackel by nelson another is a screen pass and a third is on a free play. Yes Flynn made the right decisions but he is not a franchise qb. I saw the Flyyn = Marino post give me a break flynn is aj feeley

You discounted three of his touchdowns but that still leaves three left. I can understand not liking Flynn because he is mostly an unknown quantity but to use a 6 td game of his to prove that he isn't good is ridiculous.

Roman529
01-21-2012, 08:00 PM
Aaron Rodgers sat around for four? years before he got his shot....just because a guy hasn't played many games, doesn't mean you should dismiss him. I am sure he is ready to be a full time starter, and we need someone to compete with Moore...unless you think Henne or Devlin should be kept around????

Roman529
01-21-2012, 08:03 PM
OK, for giggles No way I'm paying Flynn ludicrous Kevin Kolb money to come to Miami.


It's not YOUR money...it's Ross's money. :3w:

miami234ever
01-21-2012, 08:08 PM
The reason I like the idea of Flynn is because he would be coming to the system he is comfortable in. What people are forgetting about his recent comparisons, Kevin Kolb and A.J. Feeley, is that they did not move to a system they were comfortable in. Flynn, although people may hate to hear it, is a system QB. Let's give him a shot in his system.

jim1
01-21-2012, 08:09 PM
It's not YOUR money...it's Ross's money. :3w:





Really, you don't say.... The relevant point is opportunity cost, that money would leave fewer options as per the salary cap. Ross could spend as much money as he wants otherwise, makes no difference to me.

SCOTTY
01-21-2012, 08:33 PM
Both Flynn and Griffin have upside at QB. Flynn played in the SEC and won a title. Has been groomed in the GB system for the past four year Including a SB year. Has seen the speed of NFL games dominating the two he has played in. Griffin has amazing college stats. He has the unknown factor but that also means he could bust. The biggest difference is the cost of getting either. Flynn is just money. RGiii will cost multiple draft picks for a team that has multiple holes. Flynn plus OLine, OLB, TE, and next years 1st and 2nd pick is vastly better for Miami than Just Griffin.

Hayden Fox
01-21-2012, 08:34 PM
OK, for giggles I went through the thread- you think that Flynn is accurate and he's a lock to come to Miami now that Philbin is HC. I saw no other comments of any merit. So your love of Flynn is based on one game? I could pick out several games and say that Matt Moore is very accurate...

The point is, it was just one very good game. That's not exactly a rock solid foundation for loving a QB- you loved Landry Jones iirc and I assume that you saw way more of that stiff than Matt Flynn. If Flynn is available at the right price, I'm fine with bringing him in. But to "love" a QB after one great game- I'm not a buyer of that. No way I'm paying Flynn ludicrous Kevin Kolb money to come to Miami, and no way I'm coughing up a high draft pick for him if the Packers put the franchise tag on him, if they can do that. Infatuation for Matt Flynn after one really good game just doesn't add up to me.













Landry Jones? Not sure where you are talking about with that one...

I did not form my opinion on one game. His 2010 game vs the Pats and his preseason work makes me think he can be a very effective starter. You want to compare him to Kolb. I will compare him to Matt Schaub.

Perhaps I should break down for you what I think about with Flynn:
* Highly accurate
* Executes in the red zone
* Nice touch on deep ball
* Seems to be a good decision maker
* ROOM TO IMPROVE AND GET BETTER
* Would be playing in a similar system to that of Green Bay
* Has learned from great coaches and other effective NFL QB's

BTW, how do you improve the QB position? Andrew Luck? Not getting him. RGIII? Please tell me the compensation package you will send Jeff Fisher for the #2 spot. I would rather pay the money for Flynn than gut the roster by sending a plethora of picks away.

jim1
01-21-2012, 08:42 PM
Landry Jones? Not sure where you are talking about with that one...

I did not form my opinion on one game. His 2010 game vs the Pats and his preseason work makes me think he can be a very effective starter. You want to compare him to Kolb. I will compare him to Matt Schaub.

Perhaps I should break down for you what I think about with Flynn:
* Highly accurate
* Executes in the red zone
* Nice touch on deep ball
* Seems to be a good decision maker
* ROOM TO IMPROVE AND GET BETTER
* Would be playing in a similar system to that of Green Bay
* Has learned from great coaches and other effective NFL QB's

BTW, how do you improve the QB position? Andrew Luck? Not getting him. RGIII? Please tell me the compensation package you will send Jeff Fisher for the #2 spot. I would rather pay the money for Flynn than gut the roster by sending a plethora of picks away.

OK, fair enough, but given his miniscule amount of real time NFL action I think that you've painted quite an optimistic picture of Flynn's abilities. I'm not opposed to bringing in Matt Flynn- what I am opposed to is paying him a huge salary and/or a premium pick based upon preseason games and all of two regular season NFL games. If he could be had at the right price- fine.

I"m still curious as to why NFL teams all passed on Flynn until the 7th round of the 2008 draft. What were his perceived strengths and weaknesses which led to him being passed on again and again? Yes, Tom Brady lasted until the 6th round, but he's by far the exception as opposed to the rule, a very rare situation.

Landry Jones- I'm referring to your posts touting that stiff.

My solution as to the QB position would be to draft Brandon Weeden in the 2nd round to compete with Matt Moore. I still view Weeden as one of the top two QBs available in the draft, maybe the best, with easily the best arm of the whole class.

Hayden Fox
01-21-2012, 08:53 PM
OK, fair enough. I'm not opposed to bringing in Matt Flynn- what I am opposed to is paying him a huge salary and/or a premium pick based upon preseason games and all of two regular season NFL games. If he could be had at the right price- fine.


Landry Jones- I'm referring to your posts touting that stiff.


My solution as to the QB position would be to draft Brandon Weeden in the 2nd round to compete with Matt Moore.

Where did I tout Jones? I made many threads talking about it being an opportunity to watch him on TV. Please tell me where I am a big supporter of Landry Jones?

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?311403-Another-Huge-Start-for-Jones

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?310173-Jones-vs.-Weeden...let-our-debates-commence

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?309361-Jones-vs.-RGIII-this-Saturday

Hayden Fox
01-21-2012, 08:55 PM
For the Miami Dolphins to once again solve their QB issues with ANOTHER 2nd Round pick is foolhardy and demonstrates one not reading their Miami Dolphins History Book.

jim1
01-21-2012, 09:53 PM
Where did I tout Jones? I made many threads talking about it being an opportunity to watch him on TV. Please tell me where I am a big supporter of Landry Jones?

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?311403-Another-Huge-Start-for-Jones

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?310173-Jones-vs.-Weeden...let-our-debates-commence

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?309361-Jones-vs.-RGIII-this-Saturday

You had Jones ranked as one of your top QBs coming out.

You said that Jones was a better prospect than Weedenn, even after Jones blew chow in the OU/OSU game.


You said that you'd have to reevaluate Jones after it became apparent that he sucks wang as a QB.


Those are my recollections, it hardly seems worth it to spend time digging up the individual posts.

It's a side issue anyway- as I said, I'm not necessarily opposed to Flynn, I'd just be very hesitant to overspend on money/draft picks if necessary to land him. I'd rather buy low and sell high than buy high and sell low. Flynn is riding the crest of his wave now, he's at max perceived value, and I don't like that as far as the Dophins are concerned. But if Philbin really believes in him, that's fine with me, go ahead and grab him. The prospect of overpaying for him just rubs me the wrong way.

finsfanjay13
01-21-2012, 10:12 PM
Matt Flynn is trash and we want nothing to do with him. Look at the highlights from the detroit game. One td broken tackel by nelson another is a screen pass and a third is on a free play. Yes Flynn made the right decisions but he is not a franchise qb. I saw the Flyyn = Marino post give me a break flynn is aj feeley

Sorry, but you are a Hokies fan. I can't take you serious.

finsfanjay13
01-21-2012, 10:14 PM
For the Miami Dolphins to once again solve their QB issues with ANOTHER 2nd Round pick is foolhardy and demonstrates one not reading their Miami Dolphins History Book.

Meh. Just because it happened in the past does not mean that it will be an issue again. It's the same as saying, "[Insert name] went to [Insert college] where [Insert name] and [Insert name] went and they sucked!". Drafting a QB in the second round doesn't automatically mean bust because of Beck, Henne and White. All it means is that the people drafting those QBs didn't know what the hell they were doing.

Hayden Fox
01-21-2012, 10:24 PM
You had Jones ranked as one of your top QBs coming out.

You said that Jones was a better prospect than Weedenn, even after Jones blew chow in the OU/OSU game.


You said that you'd have to reevaluate Jones after it became apparent that he sucks wang as a QB.


Those are my recollections, it hardly seems worth it to spend time digging up the individual posts.

It's a side issue anyway- as I said, I'm not necessarily opposed to Flynn, I'd just be very hesitant to overspend on money/draft picks if necessary to land him. I'd rather buy low and sell high than buy high and sell low. Flynn is riding the crest of his wave now, he's at max perceived value, and I don't like that as far as the Dophins are concerned. But if Philbin really believes in him, that's fine with me, go ahead and grab him. The prospect of overpaying for him just rubs me the wrong way.

1. Who did not have him as a consensus, near the top QB at the start of the year? Everyone had Luck, Barkley, Jones in some kind of order...
2. He is a better prospect than Weeden...if Jones was in the draft he would go in the 1st Round and Weeden would is a day 3 pick. No question.
3. I will always continue to evaluate players...especially after he lost Broyles and had time off in between the regular season and the bowl game. Not sure how to combat the idea of a player "sucking wang", but I digress.

I do not expect you to dig up individual posts. However, not fair to paraphrase another poster's words without the quote or the true gist of what they are getting at.

jim1
01-21-2012, 11:22 PM
1. Who did not have him as a consensus, near the top QB at the start of the year? Everyone had Luck, Barkley, Jones in some kind of order...
2. He is a better prospect than Weeden...if Jones was in the draft he would go in the 1st Round and Weeden would is a day 3 pick. No question.
3. I will always continue to evaluate players...especially after he lost Broyles and had time off in between the regular season and the bowl game. Not sure how to combat the idea of a player "sucking wang", but I digress.

I do not expect you to dig up individual posts. However, not fair to paraphrase another poster's words without the quote or the true gist of what they are getting at.

The fact that you think that Landry Jones is a better prospect than Brandon Weeden pretty much sums it up. Other than that, whatever dude. What I said was very accurate. It's all besides the point anyway, the main issue is Flynn. I don't have a particular problem with him, I just don't see throwing major resources at him because he had a excellent game in what was iirc a pretty meaningless late season throwaway game. And if you're judging him in large part by his preseason performances, you sure see a lot more Green Bay preseason games than I do. Which is, to be specific, none.

Hayden Fox
01-22-2012, 09:16 AM
The fact that you think that Landry Jones is a better prospect than Brandon Weeden pretty much sums it up. Other than that, whatever dude. What I said was very accurate. It's all besides the point anyway, the main issue is Flynn. I don't have a particular problem with him, I just don't see throwing major resources at him because he had a excellent game in what was iirc a pretty meaningless late season throwaway game. And if you're judging him in large part by his preseason performances, you sure see a lot more Green Bay preseason games than I do. Which is, to be specific, none.

I find it funny your idea to fix a QB is to use ANOTHER 2nd rounder on a QB for a guy that is older than the guy I want, Matt Flynn...

Only on Finheaven do people think Brandon Weeden is the answer to QB issues for a NFL team.

jim1
01-22-2012, 10:21 AM
I find it funny your idea to fix a QB is to use ANOTHER 2nd rounder on a QB for a guy that is older than the guy I want, Matt Flynn...

Only on Finheaven do people think Brandon Weeden is the answer to QB issues for a NFL team.

Look, I'm not as much against Matt Flynn as I am against paying through the nose for Matt Flynn because he had one great game, and a meaningless game at that. As to Brandon Weeden- thank you for pointing out that Flynn is nearly as old as Weeden. Flynn has been pretty much inactive, sitting on a shelf for the last four years, while Weeden has been ripping it up. The Dolphins failed multiple times trading 2nd round picks for QBs and drafting QBs in the 2nd round, but every situation is different- the Dolphins desperately threw 2nd rd picks at Feeley and Culpepper- and a 3rd at Lamar Gordon for that matter- and spent 2nd rd picks on Pat White and John Beck. Personally, I liked John Beck quite a but and I thought that he was mismanaged.

Weeden is his own story- the age issue doesn't phase me as it does some, although it's undeniably an issue. I'd rather have 5 years of Brandon Weeden than 20 years of Landry Jones, and I like Weeden more than RGIII as well. As I've pointed out several times, Weeden will be entering his 8th year in the league the year that he turns 36- that's far from ideal, but at the same time it really isn't all that bad.

As to Weeden, I'll ask you- make that challenge you- to name a QB in this draft who has a better arm than he does. I haven't seen a stronger or more accurate arm all year, and I have little doubt that Weeden has a more accurate and stronger arm than Matt Flynn.

As to your comment, "Only on Finheaven do people think Brandon Weeden is the answer to QB issues for a NFL team."- you asked me a while back to provide examples of Weeden being highly rated outside of Finheaven and I provided two, both of which had Weeden being drafted in the top 10. One of which was Draft Tek, who in their previous mock draft (which they update all the time) had Weeden going to Miami at #9.

But those sites are just some other guys' opinions- I'm not going to rely on Mel Kiper or anyone else to form my opinion, and that's prtetty much what you seem to do. I will say that you maintaining that Landry Jones is better than Brandon Weeden, even after the OU/OSU game, was flat out comical. That one stuck with me.

That aside- again, I don't have anything terribly against Matt Flynn other than the idea of overpaying him and God forbid coughing up a high draft pick for him. Unless you live in the Green Bay area and watch all the Packers preseason games, I don't see how you can be head over heels for a marginal draft prospect, 7th round actual pick- and there are reasons why he lasted so long- who's had 2 good games in the NFL and otherwise has sat on his rear for four years. It's jumping the gun based on very little evidence in my book, that's all I'm saying.

Hayden Fox
01-22-2012, 10:38 AM
Look, I'm not as much against Matt Flynn as I am against paying through the nose for Matt Flynn because he had one great game, and a meaningless game at that. As to Brandon Weeden- thank you for pointing out that Flynn is nearly as old as Weeden. Flynn has been pretty much inactive, sitting on a shelf for the last four years, while Weeden has been ripping it up. The Dolphins failed multiple times trading 2nd round picks for QBs and drafting QBs in the 2nd round, but every situation is different- the Dolphins desperately threw 2nd rd picks at Feeley and Culpepper- and a 3rd at Lamar Gordon for that matter- and spent 2nd rd picks on Pat White and John Beck. Personally, I liked John Beck quite a but and I thought that he was mismanaged.

Weeden is his own story- the age issue doesn't phase me as it does some, although it's undeniably an issue. I'd rather have 5 years of Brandon Weeden than 20 years of Landry Jones, and I like Weeden more than RGIII as well. As I've pointed out several times, Weeden will be entering his 8th year in the league the year that he turns 36- that's far from ideal, but at the same time it really isn't all that bad.

As to Weeden, I'll ask you- make that challenge you- to name a QB in this draft who has a better arm than he does. I haven't seen a stronger or more accurate arm all year, and I have little doubt that Weeden has a more accurate and stronger arm than Matt Flynn.

As to your comment, "Only on Finheaven do people think Brandon Weeden is the answer to QB issues for a NFL team."- you asked me a while back to provide examples of Weeden being highly rated outside of Finheaven and I provided two, both of which had Weeden being drafted in the top 10. One of which was Draft Tek, who in their previous mock draft (which they update all the time) had Weeden going to Miami at #9.

But those sites are just some other guys' opinions- I'm not going to rely on Mel Kiper or anyone else to form my opinion, and that's prtetty much what you seem to do. I will say that you maintaining that Landry Jones is better than Brandon Weeden, even after the OU/OSU game, was flat out comical. That one stuck with me.

That aside- again, I don't have anything terribly against Matt Flynn other than the idea of overpaying him and God forbid coughing up a high draft pick for him. Unless you live in the Green Bay area and watch all the Packers preseason games, I don't see how you can be head over heels for a marginal draft prospect, 7th round actual pick- and there are reasons why he lasted so long- who's had 2 good games in the NFL and otherwise has sat on his rear for four years. It's jumping the gun based on very little evidence in my book, that's all I'm saying.

1. RGIII has a better arm than Weeden and is more accurate

2. While Weeden was bumming around the minor leagues and spreading it out against Big 12 D's, Flynn was learning the NFL game FROM THE VARY COACH WE JUST HIRED

3. In terms of Jones vs Weeden, it is maddening you still compare them like they faced each other like it was a boxing match. Weeden was remarkably average himself that game btw. What would Jones do with Weeden's weapons? Might point is not to prop up Jones, but to express how much you are overrating Weeden.

That is fine though. We start this week with Senior Bowl practices and games. It will be fun to watch. Perhaps your boy Weeden shows well and I will eat crow. However, if guys like Foles or Wilson or my favorite senior QB Kirk Cousins shine more than Weeden, then you will have to admit that Weeden will cement his Day 3 status.

jim1
01-22-2012, 10:50 AM
1. RGIII has a better arm than Weeden and is more accurate

2. While Weeden was bumming around the minor leagues and spreading it out against Big 12 D's, Flynn was learning the NFL game FROM THE VARY COACH WE JUST HIRED

3. In terms of Jones vs Weeden, it is maddening you still compare them like they faced each other like it was a boxing match. Weeden was remarkably average himself that game btw. What would Jones do with Weeden's weapons? Might point is not to prop up Jones, but to express how much you are overrating Weeden.

That is fine though. We start this week with Senior Bowl practices and games. It will be fun to watch. Perhaps your boy Weeden shows well and I will eat crow. However, if guys like Foles or Wilson or my favorite senior QB Kirk Cousins shine more than Weeden, then you will have to admit that Weeden will cement his Day 3 status.

Your assessment that RGIII has a better arm and is more accurate than Weeden is ridiculous.

Flynn training under Philbin- valid point. As to Weeden "speading it out"- more power to him, he's made every throw in the book regularly at OSU.


As to Weeden/Jones head to head- not sure where you're coming from. Having watched both multiple times, I view Weeden as easily a top ten talent and I don't think I'd touch Jones until the 6th rd at best- I probably wouldn't draft him at all. The reference to the OU/OSU head to head match derives from your comment, after touting Jones and dumping on Weeden repeatedly, that Jones was better- and you said this again after the game. Jones isn't even in the same league as Weeden as a QB- that was clear before the head to head matchup, and uber clear afterward.

I have no idea why you think Weeden is overrated. The talent is there, all you have to do is watch him play, not concentrate on what Mel Kiper or any other draft talking head has to say.

There' no need for anyone to eat crow regardless of what happens- I simply like Weeden and you prefer Flynn and RGIII apparently. To me it's simple- Weeden is an older prospect, but his talent is undeniable and I'd love to see the Dolphins draft him in April.

MadDog 88
01-22-2012, 11:57 AM
I really like Brandon Weeden but I would much rather have a guy who is familiar with and played quite well in the system to be installed here.

Hayden Fox
01-22-2012, 12:04 PM
Your assessment that RGIII has a better arm and is more accurate than Weeden is ridiculous.

Flynn training under Philbin- valid point. As to Weeden "speading it out"- more power to him, he's made every throw in the book regularly at OSU.


As to Weeden/Jones head to head- not sure where you're coming from. Having watched both multiple times, I view Weeden as easily a top ten talent and I don't think I'd touch Jones until the 6th rd at best- I probably wouldn't draft him at all. The reference to the OU/OSU head to head match derives from your comment, after touting Jones and dumping on Weeden repeatedly, that Jones was better- and you said this again after the game. Jones isn't even in the same league as Weeden as a QB- that was clear before the head to head matchup, and uber clear afterward.

I have no idea why you think Weeden is overrated. The talent is there, all you have to do is watch him play, not concentrate on what Mel Kiper or any other draft talking head has to say.

There' no need for anyone to eat crow regardless of what happens- I simply like Weeden and you prefer Flynn and RGIII apparently. To me it's simple- Weeden is an older prospect, but his talent is undeniable and I'd love to see the Dolphins draft him in April.

I disagree. Weeden will be asked to do NFL type of things this week. Lets see if he can succeed as he did in a college. Your assessment that he is a top ten talent will be put to the test. Let's see what he has.

BTW, you can hate on RGIII, but his accuracy and deep ball ability is the best in the draft....hate on his height, hate on his system, hate his body-type.

Hey, that is why we have the draft process. Let's see where your guy ends up. I am dying to know. The irony is because Barkley AND Jones went back to school it helped the stock of Weeden.

Hayden Fox
01-22-2012, 12:13 PM
I hate comparing college stats, but feel comfortable here because both RGIII and Weeden are in similar spread attacks, similar great weapons and in the same conference. So, your take is Weeden is a better deep ball thrower and more accurate?

Weeden: 72% completion rate. 8.38 per attempt. 159.8 eff. rating
RGIII: 72% completion rate. 10.68 per attempt. 189.5 eff. rating

Looks the completion % is the same, but RGII is an entire 2 yards above Weeden.

Here's the deal. I will let you rebuttal and have the last word, but I cannot argue this anymore. RGIII is the 2nd pick of the draft after Luck. Weeden is not even being discussed as the 3rd or 4th QB taken let alone in RGIII's area.

RGIII is a better prospect and is being considered that way by anyone following the draft.

I have been on record for NOT sending a ton of picks for RGIII. However, he is easily the second best QB in the draft.

I have never been so pumped for Senior Bowl practices as I am for next week. It will be fun to see what Weeden does.

KingDolphin57
01-22-2012, 01:04 PM
I"m still curious as to why NFL teams all passed on Flynn until the 7th round of the 2008 draft. What were his perceived strengths and weaknesses which led to him being passed on again and again? Yes, Tom Brady lasted until the 6th round, but he's by far the exception as opposed to the rule... I still view Weeden as one of the top two QBs available in the draft, maybe the best, with easily the best arm of the whole class.That's becuz Flynn's pro potential clearly states backup. As for the Weeden comment If I had to choose between Weeden a guy that will compete or Flynn a 2 game starter that will get a bundle and be given the job . I'd go with Weeden an I'm not one of his supporters.

Valandui
01-22-2012, 01:12 PM
Your assessment that RGIII has a better arm and is more accurate than Weeden is ridiculous.

Flynn training under Philbin- valid point. As to Weeden "speading it out"- more power to him, he's made every throw in the book regularly at OSU.


As to Weeden/Jones head to head- not sure where you're coming from. Having watched both multiple times, I view Weeden as easily a top ten talent and I don't think I'd touch Jones until the 6th rd at best- I probably wouldn't draft him at all. The reference to the OU/OSU head to head match derives from your comment, after touting Jones and dumping on Weeden repeatedly, that Jones was better- and you said this again after the game. Jones isn't even in the same league as Weeden as a QB- that was clear before the head to head matchup, and uber clear afterward.

I have no idea why you think Weeden is overrated. The talent is there, all you have to do is watch him play, not concentrate on what Mel Kiper or any other draft talking head has to say.

There' no need for anyone to eat crow regardless of what happens- I simply like Weeden and you prefer Flynn and RGIII apparently. To me it's simple- Weeden is an older prospect, but his talent is undeniable and I'd love to see the Dolphins draft him in April.

Disagree. Griffin's deep ball is better than Weeden's, but from a mechanical standpoint, Weeden is significantly better. Griffin is a two or three year project at best. If I'm taking anyone from that Baylor team, it's Kendall Wright, not Griffin.

retarmyfinfan
01-22-2012, 01:16 PM
Matt Flynn:

career stats: about 1000 yards passing, 9TDs, 5 INTs, 92 QBR

Not bad, but do a couple of good NFL games warrant throwing money and/or draft picks at this guy? Were there not reasons why he lasted until the 7th round of the 2008 draft? I hate to say it because it's so obvious, but does anyone remember AJ Feeley? Wasn't there supposed to be a lesson learned there about desperately throwing draft picks and/or money at a QB with a very limited track record? Is anyone certain that he's better than Matt Moore, and wouldn't bringing in Matt Flynn at a hefty cost potentially cause some major issues?

Joe Philbin is most likely a Matt Flynn guy for obvious reasons- Mike McCoy, having coached Matt Moore in Carolina, would most likely have chosen to stick with him as opposed to making a big play for Flynn . If Flynn could be brought in at a reasonable price and compete with Moore, that's fine with me. But one good game does not a QB make- if we end up coughing up a high draft pick to Green Bay or throwing a ton of money at Flynn, I'll have some serious doubt as to whether or not that's a smart direction to go in.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/410711

Does it really matter if we throw a lot of money out at a QB? I'm worried about wasting draft picks on a QB that might not work out. That can set your franchise back years. If given the opportunity I think we should take a chance on Flynn. I would hate to give up 2 first's plus some to get RGIII. Safe those picks and take BPA.

KingDolphin57
01-22-2012, 01:22 PM
Disagree. Griffin's deep ball is better than Weeden's, but from a mechanical standpoint, Weeden is significantly better. Griffin is a two or three year project at best. If I'm taking anyone from that Baylor team, it's Kendall Wright, not Griffin. Fact Griffin is a better pro prospect than Wright. Fiction Griffin is a 2 to 3 year project at best .

jim1
01-22-2012, 01:29 PM
I hate comparing college stats, but feel comfortable here because both RGIII and Weeden are in similar spread attacks, similar great weapons and in the same conference. So, your take is Weeden is a better deep ball thrower and more accurate?

Weeden: 72% completion rate. 8.38 per attempt. 159.8 eff. rating
RGIII: 72% completion rate. 10.68 per attempt. 189.5 eff. rating

Looks the completion % is the same, but RGII is an entire 2 yards above Weeden.

Here's the deal. I will let you rebuttal and have the last word, but I cannot argue this anymore. RGIII is the 2nd pick of the draft after Luck. Weeden is not even being discussed as the 3rd or 4th QB taken let alone in RGIII's area.

RGIII is a better prospect and is being considered that way by anyone following the draft.

I have been on record for NOT sending a ton of picks for RGIII. However, he is easily the second best QB in the draft.

I have never been so pumped for Senior Bowl practices as I am for next week. It will be fun to see what Weeden does.

Thank you Chairman Mao.

Stats, as usual, don't tell the whole story, and both QBs have great stats. RGIII throws a very nice deep ball, that is one of his many strengths. But if you watch both QBs play and pay attention to the tell tale throws- deep outs, posts, short and medium throws out to the flat that demand velocity and accuracy- I'll take Weeden every time. I like RGIII, but I do have reservations. To me, Weeden has the best arm of the whole group, and is right there with Luck as the best QB prospect coming out. We're all just guessing here, but I think that Weeden will prove to be a steal for a team that has balls enough to get past the age issue and is willing to draft him based on pure ability. I don't see how anyone can watch this guy play and not come away very, very impressed. I'd look for Miami, Washington, Cleveland, Seattle and the Jets to have serious interest in Weeden, most likely in round 2 due to the age issue.

I'm really not sure that Andrew Luck is better than Weeden, and age issue aside, if it were up to me Weeden would be either the 1st or 2nd pick of the first round.

jim1
01-22-2012, 01:33 PM
Does it really matter if we throw a lot of money out at a QB? I'm worried about wasting draft picks on a QB that might not work out. That can set your franchise back years. If given the opportunity I think we should take a chance on Flynn. I would hate to give up 2 first's plus some to get RGIII. Safe those picks and take BPA.

Good point, and it's a big part of why I'm all about drafting Weeden in the 2nd rd. He's an elite talent that slides due to his age and would be a steal in the 2nd rd, perfect for us given what else is out there. And even if he were there for our 2nd rd pick- I don't know if Ireland would have the brains or balls to draft him. The last QB I've seen come out of college with an arm that can compare to Weeden is Matt Stafford, and from what I've seen Weeden is more accurate.

As to Flynn- again, at the right price, sure. But seriously, is Flynn any better than Matt Moore, or is the main selling point that he's familiar with Philbin and his system? I'd love to draft a talent like Weeden, but if Flynn is a horizontal move- not so sure about bringing him in. If Flynn is not clearly better than Moore- who had a pretty good year by the way- it's just not worth the cost, similar to the Kyle Orton situation last year.

Hayden Fox
01-22-2012, 02:58 PM
Jim, now you are telling me that Weeden is better than Andrew Luck? Come on dude.

jim1
01-22-2012, 03:29 PM
Jim, now you are telling me that Weeden is better than Andrew Luck? Come on dude.

What I am saying is that from what I watched this year, Weeden is a better pure passer than Luck. Luck is incredibly efficient, cereberal, perfect size, physical, and can throw the ball very well, too. Luck would be hard to pass up, but if you're looking for a QB to stand in the pocket and gun it, a la Tom Brady, no one was better than Brandon Weeden this year imo. Luck has very compelling mental and physical abilities- I would compare him to more of a mobile QB who can run and manage a game exceptionly well, specifically Aaron Rodgers, although I prefer Rodgers' arm.

jonanthans
01-22-2012, 05:15 PM
Tom Brady was a once in a generation draft pick, probably the greatest draft pick ever. Matt Flynn has had one great game, the last game of the season that as far as I recall meant nothing as the Lions were already in the playoffs, and other than that he has a minute track record. 'Nuff said.

How many games has this years Qb draft crop had against NFL talent?
And Flynn has 2 games, both fantastic performances, both against playoff teams.
How many games has this years Qb draft crop had against playoff teams?

This is the question that no one wants to answer..

jim1
01-22-2012, 06:13 PM
How many games has this years Qb draft crop had against NFL talent?
And Flynn has 2 games, both fantastic performances, both against playoff teams.
How many games has this years Qb draft crop had against playoff teams?

This is the question that no one wants to answer..

AJ Feeley had a couple of games of NFL experience as well when the Dolphins traded for him, dude payed pretty well in those games for the Eagles- the trade didn't work out so well for us...

Again, I'm not against Matt Flynn. I'm against overpaying for him based on a smattering of NFL experience. I'm still waiting for some answers as to why he was bypassed until the 7th round of his draft. Of course he can still be an excellent QB, I'm not suggesting otherwise. I'm just curious as to what the knocks were against him going into his NFL career.

KingDolphin57
01-22-2012, 07:58 PM
I'm still waiting for some answers as to why he was bypassed until the 7th round of his draft. Of course he can still be an excellent QB, I'm not suggesting otherwise. I'm just curious as to what the knocks were against him going into his NFL career.Let me give you some. Very raw out of college .Had pocket presence issue's was not instinctive. Late to feel pressure and took a lot of sacks. Has small hands. Average accuracy and lacks zip and velocity. Made receivers work hard to catch the ball. Struggled to make plays on the move . Had a low release so balls were batted down alot. And was an average decision-maker.

Da GODfather
01-22-2012, 09:51 PM
Matt Flynn:

career stats: about 1000 yards passing, 9TDs, 5 INTs, 92 QBR

Not bad, but do a couple of good NFL games warrant throwing money and/or draft picks at this guy? Were there not reasons why he lasted until the 7th round of the 2008 draft? I hate to say it because it's so obvious, but does anyone remember AJ Feeley? Wasn't there supposed to be a lesson learned there about desperately throwing draft picks and/or money at a QB with a very limited track record? Is anyone certain that he's better than Matt Moore, and wouldn't bringing in Matt Flynn at a hefty cost potentially cause some major issues?

Joe Philbin is most likely a Matt Flynn guy for obvious reasons- Mike McCoy, having coached Matt Moore in Carolina, would most likely have chosen to stick with him as opposed to making a big play for Flynn . If Flynn could be brought in at a reasonable price and compete with Moore, that's fine with me. But one good game does not a QB make- if we end up coughing up a high draft pick to Green Bay or throwing a ton of money at Flynn, I'll have some serious doubt as to whether or not that's a smart direction to go in.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/410711

Flynn won't cost picks. he's a UFA

jim1
01-23-2012, 05:55 AM
Flynn won't cost picks. he's a UFA

And if they slap the franchise tag on him?

Hayden Fox
01-23-2012, 08:48 AM
And if they slap the franchise tag on him?

Then their backup would be making more money than the best QB in football.
Finley would have to be signed prior to tag season OR he becomes free.
Local to national media does not except the tag for Flynn since it is cost prohibitive.

They COULD tag him I suppose, but I he will end up UFA. I have thought it all along.

A better argument for you is what is Miami's back up plan IF Flynn signs elsewhere. That is what I am worried about.

jim1
01-23-2012, 10:00 AM
Then their backup would be making more money than the best QB in football.
Finley would have to be signed prior to tag season OR he becomes free.
Local to national media does not except the tag for Flynn since it is cost prohibitive.

They COULD tag him I suppose, but I he will end up UFA. I have thought it all along.

A better argument for you is what is Miami's back up plan IF Flynn signs elsewhere. That is what I am worried about.

Yeah, that's a good point, they probably wouldn't tag him then.

My backup plan? Draft Weeden in the 2nd round and let the two compete, the loser is the backup. Or resign Chad Henne. We could do far worse than henne as a backup QB. Henne doesn't have the intangibles that you would want as a strarting QB- you have to hand it to Parcells, he was right on that call- but he'd be fine as a backup.


It all boils down to the same things for me- I will be unwaveringly in support of Miami drafting Brandon Weeden, with our 2nd pick, in a 1st down trade down or, ideally, in a cost effective 2nd rd trade up to leapfrog Cleveland, Washington and Seattle. I would be ok with signing Flynn, but I think that it would be foolhardy to throw money at that guy because he's the flavor of the week and had a great game. I do acknowledge, however, that the tie-in with Philbin makes him a more attractive prospect.