PDA

View Full Version : Would you do this TRADE UP with the Vikings???



Roman529
02-11-2012, 02:09 AM
Let's say the Colts take Luck with the first overall pick, then the Rams take Matt Kalil with the 2nd pick. The Vikings are now on the clock and it's doubtful they would want to draft RG3 or any other QB, with Ponder doing a halfway decent job for them in his rookie year with the Vikings.

If we don't get Peyton Manning through free agency, and Flynn signs elsewhere, our other option would be to move up and swap our 8th or 9th pick for the 3rd overall. I was checking out the value chart by Jimmy Johnson and this is what we would have to give up.

The No. 3 pick is valued at 2,200 points. Based on the draft value chart, here is a realistic trade the Vikings could expect if they traded down and stayed inside the top 10:

The Vikings trading down with the Dolphins could realistically net them the Dolphins' first-round pick.....either eighth overall (1,400) or ninth overall (1,350) ....as well as picks in the second (about 500), third (about 230), fifth (about 38) and sixth (about 24) rounds. The Dolphins also could opt to trade a higher pick next season rather than give up four picks in the second through sixth rounds.


Thoughts?

Miamifin23
02-11-2012, 02:30 AM
If we strike out and rgIII is there then yes... At some point we have to solve this qb situation and not by picking these bums up that we have

Roman529
02-11-2012, 02:57 AM
Yeah I am feeling the same way if we don't acquire Manning or Flynn. The draft picks cost would be pretty high, but the Vikings might be ok exchanging our first rounders this year, plus them getting our 2nd, 5th and 6th this year, and a third next year? Hopefully we will take a good look at RG3 at the Combine.

2413fanphins
02-11-2012, 10:41 AM
Wow thats spendy.

SF Dolphin Fan
02-11-2012, 11:22 AM
Maybe the Dolphins should make a riduculous offer for Andrew Luck first and see if Indy takes it. As for Robert Griffin III, I think it will take two #1's and a #2. I'd do that.

PSU Cane
02-11-2012, 11:38 AM
I wouldn't do that....it's too pricey. This team has so many holes and draft picks are worth their weight in gold b/c you can potentially lock up young talent for 4-5 years at really cap friendly contracts. Between this year and next year we have a ton of free agents (Soliai, Langford, Merling, Culver, Carey, Bush, Long, McDaniel, Starks, and Bell)....7 of 22 starters. You need to build depth through the draft to sustain years of success. It's how the Packers and Giants put together their current teams and it's what the Patriots and Steelers do every year.

Ricky4Life
02-11-2012, 11:53 AM
No way do I trade that for Griffin.

The Confessor
02-11-2012, 01:07 PM
No way No how!!!!!

finfan54
02-11-2012, 04:31 PM
thats funny cus last year it was gotta have a qb at all costs and now this year, no can do.....

that aint too much if you consider that one free agent could fill what a 1st round draft pick would. You either have a franchise Qb or you do not.

I am for getting Manning

I am for getting Flynn

I am for getting RG3
and...
I am for getting Luck, whatever it would require via #1 draft picks because getting one of these, which gets you to the big dance on a regular basis is the difference.
Luck would be a little much but we need a long term answer at qb.

SCOTTY
02-11-2012, 04:48 PM
I don't know why people cling to Johnson's point system. The true value of a pick is nothing more than 1) what a team is willing to let it go for and 2) what another team is willing to give up for it. No way the Vikes let the #3 go to us for less than two #1 and our second. And my thoughts have the Vikes wanting more. No way do they take late round picks to make up the 'arbitrary' point value.

finfan54
02-11-2012, 05:04 PM
I don't know why people cling to Johnson's point system. The true value of a pick is nothing more than 1) what a team is willing to let it go for and 2) what another team is willing to give up for it. No way the Vikes let the #3 go to us for less than two #1 and our second. And my thoughts have the Vikes wanting more. No way do they take late round picks to make up the 'arbitrary' point value.

thats why cleveland sits in drivers seat but i hear they dont want to move up. I hear they may not even go RG3 in the end if someone trades up past them. I am hearing they will sit right where they are cus they indeed have so many holes they cant give up these picks for one guy. That is where we come in. We are not where cleveland is. We actually are much closer provided this coaching staff can get this bunch highly motivated.

so this goes back to your point, it also matters what other teams are willing to give to move up. What if we are the only team willing to give them two #1's and a 2 or more.

SCOTTY
02-11-2012, 05:19 PM
thats why cleveland sits in drivers seat but i hear they dont want to move up. I hear they may not even go RG3 in the end if someone trades up past them. I am hearing they will sit right where they are cus they indeed have so many holes they cant give up these picks for one guy. That is where we come in. We are not where cleveland is. We actually are much closer provided this coaching staff can get this bunch highly motivated.

so this goes back to your point, it also matters what other teams are willing to give to move up. What if we are the only team willing to give them two #1's and a 2 or more.

That's a hard one. I am still not sure about RG. If Luck threw a couple less INT towards the end of the season or beat Oregon or OkSt then he would have won the Heisman and nobody would be talking about RG like they are now.

Roman529
02-11-2012, 05:54 PM
I don't know why people cling to Johnson's point system. The true value of a pick is nothing more than 1) what a team is willing to let it go for and 2) what another team is willing to give up for it. No way the Vikes let the #3 go to us for less than two #1 and our second. And my thoughts have the Vikes wanting more. No way do they take late round picks to make up the 'arbitrary' point value.

Well it is because when most GM's make trade ups or down for draft picks they pretty much fall in line with the system Jimmy used .....like last year when the Brown's and Falcons made a deal for Julio Jones.

utahphinsfan
02-11-2012, 06:17 PM
I don't know why people cling to Johnson's point system. The true value of a pick is nothing more than 1) what a team is willing to let it go for and 2) what another team is willing to give up for it. No way the Vikes let the #3 go to us for less than two #1 and our second. And my thoughts have the Vikes wanting more. No way do they take late round picks to make up the 'arbitrary' point value.

Jimmy's system is a good reference point but by no means absolute.

FTR, I would not give up that much to trade w/ Minny... Hopefully, there is a rush on CB's and Dallas wants to move up. Miami gaining a 2nd rounder in the process. I'd even settle for Butler and a 4th.

SCOTTY
02-11-2012, 10:36 PM
Well it is because when most GM's make trade ups or down for draft picks they pretty much fall in line with the system Jimmy used .....like last year when the Brown's and Falcons made a deal for Julio Jones.

It's all fuzzy math. This trade only falls into line if you take into account a 20% discount off future years draft pick values. Which GMs only do when they need to in order to get to like I said before "what they are willing to give the pick up for". Now, factor in the real chart value of the trade when giving up future picks. Atlanta sat at 27 last year. This year they are giving up the 22 pick. Now what is the value of those 5 places. To me its just like statistics. One can be shown for both sides of an argument. Question, what did the numbers look like in the N.O.-Williams trade? The chart maybe a starting point but that's about all when GM actually determine what to trade.

Roman529
02-11-2012, 11:15 PM
It's all fuzzy math. This trade only falls into line if you take into account a 20% discount off future years draft pick values. Which GMs only do when they need to in order to get to like I said before "what they are willing to give the pick up for". Now, factor in the real chart value of the trade when giving up future picks. Atlanta sat at 27 last year. This year they are giving up the 22 pick. Now what is the value of those 5 places. To me its just like statistics. One can be shown for both sides of an argument. Question, what did the numbers look like in the N.O.-Williams trade? The chart maybe a starting point but that's about all when GM actually determine what to trade.

Are you talking about the trade where Mike Ditka gave up all of the Saints draft picks to move up to get Ricky Williams? I am not even sure there was a point system like this back then? The Saints traded all of their picks in 1999 to the Redskins, plus a first and third the following year.....all to get Ricky with the 5th pick. That deal was just crazy....but how much did it help the Skins? Not much.

If we were to move up from the 8th/9th pick to the 3rd, I don't think it would cost as much as the Falcons moving from the 27th spot to the 4th spot (with the Browns). The Falcons gave up their 1st, 2nd and 4th in 2011, and 1st and 4th this year.

I am thinking it would require us to give up our 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th this year? Maybe less?

1972fins
02-12-2012, 10:54 AM
I think you have to consider the impact a Flynn would have on the cap vs drafting RG3, what would that rookie contract be vs Flynn as a free agent if he's looking for say 9 million a year, Free agency will dictate what happens in the draft, I'm not talking Manning.

The Confessor
02-12-2012, 11:03 AM
Are you talking about the trade where Mike Ditka gave up all of the Saints draft picks to move up to get Ricky Williams? I am not even sure there was a point system like this back then? The Saints traded all of their picks in 1999 to the Redskins, plus a first and third the following year.....all to get Ricky with the 5th pick. That deal was just crazy....but how much did it help the Skins? Not much.

If we were to move up from the 8th/9th pick to the 3rd, I don't think it would cost as much as the Falcons moving from the 27th spot to the 4th spot (with the Browns). The Falcons gave up their 1st, 2nd and 4th in 2011, and 1st and 4th this year.

I am thinking it would require us to give up our 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th this year? Maybe less?

Well, first off.

The Flacons traded up to the 6th spot on the 4th, although it was still 21 spots.

I don't think we come close to getting off 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th to move from the 9 to the 2. I would imagine it could also possibly cost us our 1st and 4th or 2nd, 3rd and 6th next year as well.

For what its worth, that move by the Flacons is going to go down as one of the worst trades ever IMHO. They have completely mortgaged 2 consecutive drafts for a pretty talented WR. They could have found as good a player later in the draft IMVHO.

LANGER72
02-12-2012, 11:37 AM
Playing double the price for a player is never a good deal. If the guy is a bust, we are royally screwed for years.
RGIII would have to be the second coming of Cam Newton and Dan Marino rolled into one. The pressure on him would be huge.
I would rather stand pat, take a great player at our draft spot, and look for a QB to groom while starting Matt Moore in 2012.

footsteps_falco
02-12-2012, 09:56 PM
i would trade it all for luck, but not griffin.

hooshoops
02-12-2012, 10:13 PM
the rams won't take kalil...

Ghostfx123
02-14-2012, 03:22 PM
I haven't scene anything to suggest this guy is worth that steep of a price. If he falls to us at number 8 or 9 fine if not lets not bet the farm on him.

Roman529
02-14-2012, 03:49 PM
the rams won't take kalil...

I think the Rams will trade down from the #2 spot.....they could really use a WR like Blackmon. I think teams would be willing to trade up with the Rams to get RG3.

Mudder1310
02-14-2012, 04:07 PM
I'm not sure the Rams know anything about grading talent. They had Laurent Robinson and let him leave, for example. It wouldn't surprise me if they dealt back in the draft, lets say with Seattle. StL has a whole lot of holes.

umpalu
02-14-2012, 04:31 PM
I wouldn't do that....it's too pricey. This team has so many holes and draft picks are worth their weight in gold b/c you can potentially lock up young talent for 4-5 years at really cap friendly contracts. Between this year and next year we have a ton of free agents (Soliai, Langford, Merling, Culver, Carey, Bush, Long, McDaniel, Starks, and Bell)....7 of 22 starters. You need to build depth through the draft to sustain years of success. It's how the Packers and Giants put together their current teams and it's what the Patriots and Steelers do every year.

1)All of those teams have a QB. 2)Sounds good, lets just keep doing what we have been doing. It has been working really well.

dtjp17
02-14-2012, 07:57 PM
lets pull a mike ditka and trade the whole draft

Tunaphish429
02-14-2012, 08:40 PM
Too much to give up for a guy that played against weak comp and has a ton of question marks. We have too many holes and rg III does not get us over the hump.

phinfein
02-15-2012, 08:11 PM
trade up for rg3!! Let manning stay the hell away from miami..let moore start till we unleash rg3 on the nfl!!

showstopper
02-16-2012, 03:39 PM
I just don't understand the fans here. All we talk about is needing a qb for so many years and if we had one and only when we get one, will we be a challenger for the superbowl. But no one wants to give up draft picks to get a franchise qb. If you give up two first round picks, in 5 years will any one notice? No one noticed how many picks the Giants gave up for Eli all these years later. Get Rg lll and be happy for the next 10 years or hold on to these picks and be miserable for another 13. you wouldn't give up your last 2 round 1 players for a franchise qb? Pouncey and Odrick are good players and probowl players probably, but wouldn't you give them up for a franchise qb, honestly?

j-off-her-doll
02-16-2012, 03:51 PM
Well, first off.

The Flacons traded up to the 6th spot on the 4th, although it was still 21 spots.

I don't think we come close to getting off 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th to move from the 9 to the 2. I would imagine it could also possibly cost us our 1st and 4th or 2nd, 3rd and 6th next year as well.

For what its worth, that move by the Flacons is going to go down as one of the worst trades ever IMHO. They have completely mortgaged 2 consecutive drafts for a pretty talented WR. They could have found as good a player later in the draft IMVHO.

I would not move up for RG3 or even draft him if he falls (which wouldn't shock me). We'll see what other players the Browns end up netting from the deal, but so far, the Falcons are way ahead on the deal.

3rdandinches
02-16-2012, 10:03 PM
The only way RG3 is available at 3 is because Cleveland signed M.Flynn, therefore I see him there at 4/5. Cleveland or TB could easily trade back just to grab another pick. If Philbin wants him then I hope they get him!

KingDolphin57
02-20-2012, 10:22 PM
Would trade up in a heartbeat. RG3 all the way.