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View Full Version : Mocking Combine Warriors in the 1st Round



ckparrothead
02-17-2012, 12:12 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1069671-2012-nfl-mock-draft-mocking-the-top-scouting-combine-warriors

I'm not just pimping my own article hear. I'd actually like to hear which players you guys think will blow the doors off the NFL Scouting Combine next week.

I believe Robert Griffin is obvious. But I think when you stack up Ryan Tannehill's performance for a quarterback, it's going to be something that would have had people gibbering like lunatics a short 5 years ago. Quinton Coples is an easy prediction, to me. I keep hearing whispers that when all is said and done Dontari Poe's Combine performance at his huge 350 lbs size will really stand out. I tossed in Coby Fleener, Melvin Ingram and Fletcher Cox.

Who are some guys you really expect to end up the talk of the town in Indy next week? Genuinely curious.

jim1
02-17-2012, 12:34 PM
I'd say Joe Adams but I don't think that he's going to run until his pro day. I'm guessing sub 4.35 for him.

NorFlaFin
02-17-2012, 12:52 PM
Love the Mike Holmgren worn picture of ex-girlfriend crack. Funny as hell.

ckparrothead
02-17-2012, 01:12 PM
A guy I left off the list would be Zach Brown of North Carolina. He will blow the doors off the Combine. But the reason I left him off is ultimately, I don't think Zach Brown is a very good football player. I don't care what he runs, he has true 4.4 speed and yet he can't cover Bradie Ewing on a wheel route deep down the field at the Senior Bowl? That's not just something you see at the Senior Bowl that one time. You see underachievement all over the North Carolina tape. Everyone calls Quinton Coples and underachiever, but when I look at the tape of North Carolina looking for guys that are not holding their weight, it's Zach Brown and Kevin Reddick that I see more often not getting the job done. Quinton Coples can only do so much. He's holding his gap, engulfing blockers, engulfing the ball carrier if he makes the mistake of trying to run through his gap (which they often avoid). But the guys around him didn't give Coples much help and so Coples was rarely put in a position to get a bunch of sacks and statistics.

Hayden Fox
02-17-2012, 01:13 PM
I do not read Bleacher Report.

Locke
02-17-2012, 01:18 PM
I do not read Bleacher Report.

:bobdole:

Just............ :bobdole:

Geforce
02-17-2012, 01:21 PM
A couple of UM players to look at is running back Lamar Miller and defensive end Olivier Vernon.

SF Dolphin Fan
02-17-2012, 01:30 PM
A guy I left off the list would be Zach Brown of North Carolina. He will blow the doors off the Combine. But the reason I left him off is ultimately, I don't think Zach Brown is a very good football player. I don't care what he runs, he has true 4.4 speed and yet he can't cover Bradie Ewing on a wheel route deep down the field at the Senior Bowl? That's not just something you see at the Senior Bowl that one time. You see underachievement all over the North Carolina tape. Everyone calls Quinton Coples and underachiever, but when I look at the tape of North Carolina looking for guys that are not holding their weight, it's Zach Brown and Kevin Reddick that I see more often not getting the job done. Quinton Coples can only do so much. He's holding his gap, engulfing blockers, engulfing the ball carrier if he makes the mistake of trying to run through his gap (which they often avoid). But the guys around him didn't give Coples much help and so Coples was rarely put in a position to get a bunch of sacks and statistics.What's your thought on Quinton Coples in general? Would he be a good pick for Miami at 8/9? I love what I see of him off tape, but the underachieving label you keep hearing seems like a big red flag for the 1st round. Maybe that label is unfair?

datruth55
02-17-2012, 01:58 PM
RGIII should shine at the combine with his athleticism. Vontaze Burfict and Lavonte David I think will be among the leaders at linebacker in the 40, 20-yard shuttle and 60-yard shuttle. I also think Kendall Wright will drop some jaws when he runs.

ckparrothead
02-17-2012, 01:59 PM
What's your thought on Quinton Coples in general? Would he be a good pick for Miami at 8/9? I love what I see of him off tape, but the underachieving label you keep hearing seems like a big red flag for the 1st round. Maybe that label is unfair?

I personally think the label is unfair, yes. I like Quinton Coples a lot. He's like a lot of YOUNG players with these massive, significant bodies that they don't know how to handle yet. It's like giving a 16 year old the keys to a Ferrari. Don't expect Mario Andretti right away. Jason Pierre-Paul was the same way but Coples is actually further along than Pierre-Paul was at this stage. Pierre-Paul, granted, was just a little bit more explosive I think...in Combine terms. We'll find out soon enough.

I think when you play Defensive End and you have an underachieving defense with a lot of underachieving players around you, you're FORCED to look like an underachiever because of situations. You're not getting into the situations where you can show off. But when the ball went to his gap in the ground game, he generally engulfed the ball carrier. He pushed back a lot of tackles and destroyed backfield integrity on a lot of run plays. And in opportunities when he could rush the passer, he made plays. He wasn't used to the right side and so that was a learning curve. He's still not used to this enormous, explosive and fast body of his, so that's a learning curve. He's just going to get better.

TedSlimmJr
02-17-2012, 02:11 PM
I think you've touched on some of the obvious candidates, and maybe one or two not so obvious. I think Fleener should glide through this combine, just a smooth player with deceptive speed. Fletcher Cox and Dontari Poe were two freaks I tried to tell everybody about back in July in a couple of my underrated threads.


Trent Richardson - I think he's going to make it clear beforehand that he's going to hammer out about 30 quick reps and then stop. Nothing to gain by doing anymore than that.

Orson Charles - Every bit as explosive out of his stance and getting downfield as Virgil Green was. He'll run fast. I think his 10 and 20 splits could be very fast.

Bruce Irvin

Janzen Jackson

Jerel Worthy

Stephon Gilmore

Alameda Ta'amu

Ronnell Lewis

David Wilson

Brandon Bolden

Lavonte David

Michael Brockers

George Iloka

Malik Jackson

Dre Kirkpatrick

Nick Perry

Kendall Wright

Demario Davis

Dominique Hamilton

Chandler Harnish



Some of these guys won't go in the 1st round, but I think some of them have a chance to turn in some relatively impressive combines, while others will test out much better than expected.... and need to in order to generate some buzz due to being under-utilized in college or just flying under the radar for whatever reason.

datruth55
02-17-2012, 02:14 PM
I thought Kirkpatrick was not going to be able to participate at the combine?

TedSlimmJr
02-17-2012, 02:21 PM
I thought Kirkpatrick was not going to be able to participate at the combine?


Why?

WelcomeBack
02-17-2012, 02:23 PM
If he runs at the time he's told me, I think Shawn Loiseau will impress at multiple areas. Of course, this is based off of the numbers he expressed to me.

ckparrothead
02-17-2012, 02:24 PM
I probably failed to make it clear but my task was restricted to 1st round Combine Warriors. I do agree with several guys that are going to rip it up in Indy, but not necessarily go 1st round.

We're going to disagree on Orson Charles. I see a player that is surprisingly strong for his size, and well schooled in blocking, getting his balance right, getting squared, punching and using his hands, etc. But he's TINY. I'll be interested to see what he measures. But no matter what he measures, it's hard to get over seeing a field level view of him going up against a 5'11" and 215 lbs Tennessee linebacker, and looking about the same size and not at all at any kind of physical advantage. I think you're right about the 10 and 20 yard splits but his 40 yard total time isn't going to be anything eye popping. He's in danger of measuring out at Dorin Dickerson's size without Dickerson's 4.40 speed. I look at that position and I need a guy that's going to be a mismatch against multiple different kinds of players. It's not enough to be tiny but fast and therefore be a mismatch against big linebackers. I could put a Wide Receiver in at a Tight End position if I just want a mismatch against linebackers. You have to be a mismatch against multiple kinds of players, and/or very interesting with the ball in your hands as a ball carrier.

I don't see him as either, honestly. I don't see secondary players having problems matching up with his speed like I do Fleener. I don't even see secondary players having problems taking him down or physically approaching him, which is a big red flag for me for a tight end. If he's going to be essentially a glorified receiver like Aaron Hernandez, he had better be real interesting with the ball in his hands like Hernandez is. As for his blocking, at the next level it doesn't matter how good that technique is there are a lot of players on the football field that will bully him around.

What I can't get beyond is Aaron Hernnadez and D.J. Williams being 4th round players, and then I see Orson Charles talked about by some people as a borderline 1st rounder. That doesn't compute for me. I see him as a 3rd round player at the best and maybe below that.

TedSlimmJr
02-17-2012, 02:42 PM
I probably failed to make it clear but my task was restricted to 1st round Combine Warriors. I do agree with several guys that are going to rip it up in Indy, but not necessarily go 1st round.

We're going to disagree on Orson Charles. I see a player that is surprisingly strong for his size, and well schooled in blocking, getting his balance right, getting squared, punching and using his hands, etc. But he's TINY. I'll be interested to see what he measures. But no matter what he measures, it's hard to get over seeing a field level view of him going up against a 5'11" and 215 lbs Tennessee linebacker, and looking about the same size and not at all at any kind of physical advantage. I think you're right about the 10 and 20 yard splits but his 40 yard total time isn't going to be anything eye popping. He's in danger of measuring out at Dorin Dickerson's size without Dickerson's 4.40 speed. I look at that position and I need a guy that's going to be a mismatch against multiple different kinds of players. It's not enough to be tiny but fast and therefore be a mismatch against big linebackers. I could put a Wide Receiver in at a Tight End position if I just want a mismatch against linebackers. You have to be a mismatch against multiple kinds of players, and/or very interesting with the ball in your hands as a ball carrier.

I don't see him as either, honestly. I don't see secondary players having problems matching up with his speed like I do Fleener. I don't even see secondary players having problems taking him down or physically approaching him, which is a big red flag for me for a tight end. If he's going to be essentially a glorified receiver like Aaron Hernandez, he had better be real interesting with the ball in his hands like Hernandez is. As for his blocking, at the next level it doesn't matter how good that technique is there are a lot of players on the football field that will bully him around.

What I can't get beyond is Aaron Hernnadez and D.J. Williams being 4th round players, and then I see Orson Charles talked about by some people as a borderline 1st rounder. That doesn't compute for me. I see him as a 3rd round player at the best and maybe below that.



Well I didn't say Orson Charles was a great player, I said I think he's going to test well. Particularly in his split times. What exactly are you disagreeing with?

I don't think he's as good of a player as D.J. Williams was either, but I think he's got a little bit more fluidity to his game than D.J. did. He's a little better athlete and not quite as stiff.

Orson Charles is still very inconsistent as a blocker, but gives good effort. Even against DE's like William Gholston (6'7", 280) and Devin Taylor (6'7", 260). I don't think he's as good as Aaron Hernandez with the ball in his hands either. I think he's inbetween both D.J. Williams and Hernandez. He has Hernandez's fluidity and athletic ability, but a better blocker at the POA. Hernandez was more of a stalk blocker. Orson's hands aren't as dependable as D.J. Williams.

That said, he's a better player than Dorin Dickerson was. He's not in no-mans land without a position like Dickerson was. Dickerson didn't even have a position in college. Orson Charles has been an effective player on the line of scrimmage in the SEC for 3 years.

ckparrothead
02-17-2012, 02:51 PM
I don't think it's even possible for a player like him to achieve consistency in blocking, purely due to size disadvantages. I think a man without a position is exactly what he's in danger of being at the next level. The only reason he was not a man without a position at the college level, as opposed to Dorin Dickerson, is coaching. Probably some attitude mixed in there, as I'm sure by looking at his blocking and technique alone that he's got better attitude than Dickerson.

NorFlaFin
02-17-2012, 03:04 PM
Zebrie Sanders OT FSU, He should test extremelly well.

Austin Tatious
02-17-2012, 03:14 PM
Zebrie Sanders OT FSU, He should test extremelly well.

Off topic but is Sanders the kid who was absolutely abused at the Senior Bowl or am I thinking of someone else?

I'd be disappointed if Miami took a RT in round one period. I don't see the value. I am looking at round 2 guys and Sanders seemed like a fraud from what I saw. Honestly, I'd like to get Jared Gaither in here. I've liked him a ton since he was at Maryland and he even came pretty cheaply in the supplemental draft. He was doing fine for the Ravens then something went south. I think he still has a high ceiling. Bring in Gaither and then draft a Mitchell Swartz in the middle rounds and there you go at RT.

I want nothing to do with Martin or Reiff at 8/9.

Dogbone34
02-17-2012, 04:33 PM
Michael Brockers will make a splash

WitheringPlant
02-17-2012, 05:16 PM
I do not read Bleacher Report.
I'm beginning to think Hayden Fox is really just Stephen Colbert.

DKphin
02-17-2012, 05:35 PM
Cam Johnson UVA

DKphin
02-17-2012, 05:42 PM
Why?He probably means Mark Barron because of his double hernia procedure

Tide S to miss combine Alabama safety Mark Barron reportedly will the scouting combine after undergoing double hernia surgery. Barron, who is projected to be the first safety off the board this coming April, is expected to be out up to 8 weeks, meaning that he could still have time to go through a private workout prior to the draft, although its not likely that he would be in top physical condition at that time. http://www.gbnreport.com/

Speaking of Dre Kirkpatrick:

Pot charge against Tide CB dropped Police in Alabama have reportedly dismissed a charge of marijuana possession against Alabam junior Dre Kirkpatrick after the driver of the car he was a passenger in took responsibility for the drug. Kirkpatrick is projected to be one of the first 2-3 players off the board at the position at the upcoming draft. http://www.gbnreport.com/

MiamiDolphin618
02-17-2012, 07:07 PM
Im intrigued to see how Kuechly tests. I know he is an instincts guy...and hes not going to blow the doors off his combine...but I think he will test better than some expect. I think Coples and Upshaw will both test well..and depending on how Coples shows he could put himself into that "freak" category with his size. Not a first rounder but I think Janzen Jackson will test well and look fluid

Hayden Fox
02-19-2012, 11:50 AM
I'm beginning to think Hayden Fox is really just Stephen Colbert.

What does that mean?

WitheringPlant
02-19-2012, 12:29 PM
What does that mean?
It means the utter ignorance you show on a regular basis is so over the top, I have no choice but to assume it's just one big joke.

greasyObnoxious
02-19-2012, 01:03 PM
i think Matt Kalil will look good in that environment. he's athletic, gotta give him that

MiamiMuss
02-19-2012, 02:45 PM
Xavier rhodes out of FSU i think hes solid at cb with a pssoibilitt of playiny FS.Very underated.

finfan54
02-20-2012, 11:25 PM
quinton coples is a fine player....he just wont be playing for the dolphins.

im ready for cliff avril in FA. done with it.

ckparrothead
02-20-2012, 11:29 PM
Coby Fleener and Ryan Tannehill confirmed not participating in drills.

hooshoops
02-21-2012, 12:29 AM
why isn't fleener participating in drills??? i seriously doubt quentin coples is gonna test anywhere in jpps ballpark from an explosion point...i think we're talking about 2 different levels there...

i watched fletcher cox in that college all stars competition last week and all i can say is that kids got some terrific feet for his size...

rob19
02-21-2012, 02:38 AM
It might be expected at this point, but I think Trent Richardson is gonna show off at the combine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7VAxIMalaE&feature=plcp&context=C33de54cUDOEgsToPDskJZeu3FXqGkAMdR36wVuCjA

ckparrothead
02-21-2012, 04:39 PM
why isn't fleener participating in drills??? i seriously doubt quentin coples is gonna test anywhere in jpps ballpark from an explosion point...i think we're talking about 2 different levels there...

i watched fletcher cox in that college all stars competition last week and all i can say is that kids got some terrific feet for his size...

Coby Fleener has a hurt ankle. I honestly wonder if that's why he didn't go to the Senior Bowl.

As for Coples versus Jason Pierre-Paul we will see. I wouldn't mind wagering on Coples having an overall better showing. JPP was 6046 and 270 lbs, did 19 bench reps and jumped 30.5 inches vertically, had a 9'7" broad jump, 4.67 second shuttle drill, 7.18 second cone drill, and ran between a 4.71 and 4.83 in the 40 yard dash. He re-did his vertical and broad jump at his pro day and improved to 31.5 inches and 9'9".

I'm interested in seeing if Quinton Coples can top that performance.

ckparrothead
02-21-2012, 04:46 PM
Not that I'm a betting man but yesterday a famous online sports book had the following Combine props which are now totally unavailable:

Faster 40 Yard Dash - Robert Griffin (-140) or Russell Wilson (EVEN)
Faster 40 Yard Dash - Robert Griffin (-135) or Jordan Jefferson (-105)
Faster 40 Yard Dash - Kendall Wright (-135) or Justin Blackmon (-105)
Faster 40 Yard Dash - Chris Rainey (-130) or David Wilson (-110)
Faster 40 Yard Dash - Chris Rainey (-130) or LaMichael James (-110)

Try and find those props today, and you won't find them, lol.

They also had these ones available, whose odds have swung wildly since yesterday:

Faster 40 Yard Dash - Chris Rainey (was -120, now -155) or Brandon Boykin (was -120, now +115)
Higher Vertical Jump - Kendall Wright (was -105, now -150) or Justin Blackmon (was -135, now +110)

If I were a betting man, and I'm not saying I am, but if I were...hypothetically...I would be pretty happy right now...hypothetically...

hooshoops
02-21-2012, 05:47 PM
i don't think coples will ever cover the ground that jpp does or run stuff down that he has no business getting to on the backside like jpp does...i don't care how he test in underwear drills to me theres a big difference from a quick acceleration and on the hoof aspect...

i expected jpps combine numbers to be better given what he looks like on the field as a giant...so a little surprised there...watching him everything just screams freak to me

ckparrothead
02-21-2012, 06:00 PM
I can't tell you what Coples will look like on a football field once given two years of coaching in a quality program like the Giants. You said Coples isn't going to test as well as JPP at the Combine and I disagreed.

hooshoops
02-21-2012, 06:09 PM
thats true i did...but i expected better numbers from jpp...we'll see...i just think coples will give you a softer corner than jpp ever will from a sideline to sideline and lateral agility aspect...jpp hunts you...coples can blow stuff up more with walking guys into the backfield but i seriously doubt he's gonna run you down on the backside or do some of the things i have seen jpp do on specials or to the sidelines...crazy stuff

doesn't matter anyway...i'll be floored if he gets by jax unless there are some serious skeletons in his closet

TheWalrus
02-21-2012, 07:08 PM
I'm not convinced Coples will go to the Jags. The new coaching staff was hired to fix Gabbert so I think they'll be going offense early on. That defense wasn't bad last year at all.

Hayden Fox
02-24-2012, 06:48 AM
It means the utter ignorance you show on a regular basis is so over the top, I have no choice but to assume it's just one big joke.

I am ignorant for not reading Bleacher Report? LOL. Anyone that surmises information and formulates an opinion from Bleacher Report will quickly become ignorant.

Sorry I did not get your comparison with Colbert. It HAS TO BE that I am ignorant...

After looking at the history of your posts, lets not make out you are bring a ton to the table on this site.

CaneHammer
02-24-2012, 02:24 PM
I don't think it's even possible for a player like him to achieve consistency in blocking, purely due to size disadvantages. I think a man without a position is exactly what he's in danger of being at the next level. The only reason he was not a man without a position at the college level, as opposed to Dorin Dickerson, is coaching. Probably some attitude mixed in there, as I'm sure by looking at his blocking and technique alone that he's got better attitude than Dickerson.


I think some of the hype on Charles comes from the success and publicity of Gronkowski (spelling?), Graham, Hernandez, and a couple others have been receiving. I believe he came in at 6'2" and 251 lbs and 32/33 arm length. So it will be interesting to see what he runs. I think his long speed will be fine. I agree with Slimm in that He will likely blister the 10 and 20 yard splits. I know you are not high on him but I think him and clay would be an interesting tandem of TEs. My only concern is how much alike are they and would we benefit from a taller target to go with Clay.

The one guy I think is going to be a combine warrior is trent richardson. I think he is a pure animal as a runner and athlete.

MadDog 88
02-24-2012, 02:37 PM
I'll go out on a limb and say Branden Weeden moves himself into the late first round. I expect he hits the Trifecta, Fiesta Bowl, Senior Bowl and Combine. He generated a lot of buzz Senior Bowl Week and I fully expect to hear a lot about him this weekend.

ckparrothead
02-24-2012, 03:21 PM
I'll go out on a limb and say Branden Weeden moves himself into the late first round. I expect he hits the Trifecta, Fiesta Bowl, Senior Bowl and Combine. He generated a lot of buzz Senior Bowl Week and I fully expect to hear a lot about him this weekend.

I think that's a good prediction. I've been saying for months that the pre-Draft progression is set up for him to do really well, for his stock to rise rather than fall. He'll impress every step of the way.

MadDog 88
02-24-2012, 03:42 PM
I think that's a good prediction. I've been saying for months that the pre-Draft progression is set up for him to do really well, for his stock to rise rather than fall. He'll impress every step of the way.If they miss on Manning or Flynn I would be ecstatic if they drafted Weeden.

Pinkboy
02-25-2012, 08:45 AM
How the heck are we going to get Weeden if he's pegged to go in the late 1st with other teams ?

I doubt Ireland is even smart enough to think Weeden would go in the late 1st and will stand pat thinking Weeden will be there in the 2nd, just to come up empty handed yet again.

And of course, there were a bunch of people 3-4 months ago trying to argue with me saying Weeden will go in the 3rd or 4th round. And I told them they were absolutely insane and said this guy will see the 1st round (and I said "early" 2nd round AT THE VERY LATEST).. gotta find all those posts from other people I was arguing and debating with because it was hilarious.

I've had my sig below posted for the past 4 months, but it will be another hard-on for nothing with ireland and company running the show

MadDog 88
02-25-2012, 05:18 PM
How the heck are we going to get Weeden if he's pegged to go in the late 1st with other teams ?

I doubt Ireland is even smart enough to think Weeden would go in the late 1st and will stand pat thinking Weeden will be there in the 2nd, just to come up empty handed yet again.

And of course, there were a bunch of people 3-4 months ago trying to argue with me saying Weeden will go in the 3rd or 4th round. And I told them they were absolutely insane and said this guy will see the 1st round (and I said "early" 2nd round AT THE VERY LATEST).. gotta find all those posts from other people I was arguing and debating with because it was hilarious.

I've had my sig below posted for the past 4 months, but it will be another hard-on for nothing with ireland and company running the showCleveland and Washington are sitting at the top of the second round which makes me suspect one may move back into the first round to get him. If the Dolphins have not resolved the QB spot by day one, I would trade down, making sure I stay in front of the Jets, and pull the trigger on Weeden.

MiamiMuss
02-25-2012, 05:24 PM
I never got to watch the senior bowl but didnt Weeden throw a couple picks?

Just curios as to how bad the picks were.Tip balls?WR/te/rb running bad routes?