PDA

View Full Version : Mike Mayock: NFL Draft board not a good fit for Miami Dolphins’ first-round needs



BAMAPHIN 22
02-22-2012, 04:04 PM
The Dolphins’ draft pick will finally be settled this week at the NFL Scouting Combine, as league officials will hold the coin flip on Friday morning between Miami and Carolina to determine the eighth and ninth picks of the draft.But according to the NFL Network’s Mike Mayock, the coin flip might not make much of a difference for the Dolphins. The top prospects in this year’s draft don’t match the Dolphins’ biggest needs, Mayock said, and they may have to over-draft a player no matter if they are drafting eighth or ninth.http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2012/02/22/mike-mayock-nfl-draft-board-not-a-good-fit-for-miami-dolphins-first-round-needs/

finfan54
02-22-2012, 04:21 PM
Reiff is not an overdraft IMO. Just remember, and like mayock and all, but this is the guy who said Long is not a left tackle.

The biggest position of need or one them is RT. Tackle is not a deep position. Thats how I look at it. There will be plenty of WR and G in this draft.

Here is how I see it currently something like this.

1. Reiff
2. Fleener or Harrison Smith
3. Vinny Curry

Trading down would be my desire and still could get a good RT or Tannehill, although I dont see us getting him if we get Flynn.

Locke
02-22-2012, 04:26 PM
Or they could simply go BPA and improve the team as a whole...

TedSlimmJr
02-22-2012, 05:14 PM
You might be ok reaching a little bit for a player if it's a high impact position (Quarterback, pass rusher, secondary) but other than that, you need to be drafting for TALENT in the top 10 of the draft. You don't get many opportunities to acquire elite talent at any position. The draft is your only shot, and Miami has to start treating it that way.

If you're drafting Riley Reiff in the top 10, you're absolutely reaching to "fill a need", while passing up better prospects.

DKphin
02-22-2012, 05:19 PM
I actually think if you are dead set drafting OL with the first pick, David DeCastro is the way to go. He has and can play multiple positions on the OL. The only real knock on him is that he may need to improve his strength. As far as technique and attitude go, there is no one better in this draft.

datruth55
02-22-2012, 05:59 PM
Reiff is not an overdraft IMO. Just remember, and like mayock and all, but this is the guy who said Long is not a left tackle.

Don't think that was Mayock, it was Todd McShay from ESPN.

ckparrothead
02-22-2012, 07:09 PM
It's possible Mayock was one of the ones saying Long was a right tackle. I really don't remember. I know he also rated Gerald McCoy over Ndamukong Suh though. And of course there's the Cam Newton fiasco. Nobody is infallible.

finfan54
02-22-2012, 07:44 PM
still dont get why a guy who can play both RT and LT and is prototypical size with no character flaws ect. is in overreach. If Rieff falls to 15 and someone takes him they will be saying what great value that is.

I understand the real underlying factor here. Everyone wants Blackmon. lol.

normaniii
02-22-2012, 08:05 PM
If you want BPA, Reiff IMO is not a reach. People may say its a reach as he would play RT, which maybe an overreach of position, but pure talent IMO no.

TedSlimmJr
02-22-2012, 08:15 PM
still dont get why a guy who can play both RT and LT and is prototypical size with no character flaws ect. is in overreach. If Rieff falls to 15 and someone takes him they will be saying what great value that is.

I understand the real underlying factor here. Everyone wants Blackmon. lol.


Have you watched Riley Reiff play? He gets beat consistently by very average defensive lineman. That's not really what I'm looking for with an offensive tackle in the top 10.

An offensive tackle worth a top 10 pick is a guy like Chris Samuels who started 4 years and never gave up a single sack. He didn't even give up a single QB pressure his Senior season. I want a dominant prospect at OT if I'm taking him in the top 10. An Orlando Pace, Joe Thomas, Jonathan Ogden type prospect... not a Riley Reiff.

The best offensive tackle prospect in this draft (Kalil) is a reach in the top 10, but I can at least see the upside to it for a team needing a left tackle.

Furthermore, taking a guy to play RT in the top 10 is just embarrassing to begin with.

I'm not even saying that you'll end up with a bad player if you select Reiff. You could end with a solid starter in Reiff, but it's just not worth the 10th pick in the draft to get a solid starting right tackle. There's going to be better players available, at more impactful positions.

Hell, if you're going to take an offensive lineman at all in the top 10, at least make damn sure you take the best offensive lineman in the draft regardless of position. Take David DeCastro.

He'll excel at either guard position. He's an excellent RG because that's typically the guard that you leave on an island in pass protection, he's an excellent LG because he's the best pulling guard in the run game, and hitting moving targets that I've seen in many years. This kid has legitimate Hall of Fame potential.

Clipse
02-22-2012, 08:40 PM
Reiff is not an overdraft IMO. Just remember, and like mayock and all, but this is the guy who said Long is not a left tackle.

The biggest position of need or one them is RT. Tackle is not a deep position. Thats how I look at it. There will be plenty of WR and G in this draft.

Here is how I see it currently something like this.

1. Reiff
2. Fleener or Harrison Smith
3. Vinny Curry

Trading down would be my desire and still could get a good RT or Tannehill, although I dont see us getting him if we get Flynn.

A RT with a top 10 pick is always an overdraft, especially one of Reiff's talent.

Spesh
02-22-2012, 09:19 PM
It's possible Mayock was one of the ones saying Long was a right tackle. I really don't remember. I know he also rated Gerald McCoy over Ndamukong Suh though. And of course there's the Cam Newton fiasco. Nobody is infallible.

Mel Kiper was at the front of the bandwagon on that one. Not sure if Mayock was involved, but positive that was Kiper. You can tell its him by the way he absolutely never brings it up.

MiamiDolfan85
02-23-2012, 12:14 AM
Have you watched Riley Reiff play? He gets beat consistently by very average defensive lineman. That's not really what I'm looking for with an offensive tackle in the top 10.

An offensive tackle worth a top 10 pick is a guy like Chris Samuels who started 4 years and never gave up a single sack. He didn't even give up a single QB pressure his Senior season. I want a dominant prospect at OT if I'm taking him in the top 10. An Orlando Pace, Joe Thomas, Jonathan Ogden type prospect... not a Riley Reiff.

The best offensive tackle prospect in this draft (Kalil) is a reach in the top 10, but I can at least see the upside to it for a team needing a left tackle.

Furthermore, taking a guy to play RT in the top 10 is just embarrassing to begin with.

I'm not even saying that you'll end up with a bad player if you select Reiff. You could end with a solid starter in Reiff, but it's just not worth the 10th pick in the draft to get a solid starting right tackle. There's going to be better players available, at more impactful positions.

Hell, if you're going to take an offensive lineman at all in the top 10, at least make damn sure you take the best offensive lineman in the draft regardless of position. Take David DeCastro.

He'll excel at either guard position. He's an excellent RG because that's typically the guard that you leave on an island in pass protection, he's an excellent LG because he's the best pulling guard in the run game, and hitting moving targets that I've seen in many years. This kid has legitimate Hall of Fame potential.the bowl game against Oklahoma was about as ugly as it gets....of course every tackle has a few bad games a season, regardless of talent; but from just that impression alone Reiff wasn't what I've been driven to think he'd be yet there is room for improvement.

ticophin
02-23-2012, 12:33 AM
Under that assumption, drafting one of the safest picks in Luke Kuechly to roam your defense and tackle the Hell out of opposing Offenses for 10+ years...is a reach? BS, 5 years from now, when we look back and half of the top 15 picks are nowhere to be found, and guys like Kuechly or DeCastro are still raising hell, teams that picked them up will look like visionaries.

Roman529
02-23-2012, 04:49 PM
I think our best option is to try and trade down and get an extra pick.

ckparrothead
02-23-2012, 05:05 PM
Under that assumption, drafting one of the safest picks in Luke Kuechly to roam your defense and tackle the Hell out of opposing Offenses for 10+ years...is a reach? BS, 5 years from now, when we look back and half of the top 15 picks are nowhere to be found, and guys like Kuechly or DeCastro are still raising hell, teams that picked them up will look like visionaries.

I was just going to say...overall, I don't buy Mayock's assessment. On exactly the basis you say, you'd love a Luke Kuechly, Courtney Upshaw, Quinton Coples, or David DeCastro on your team. You'd love them. No reason not to. Hell for that matter you'd love a Fletcher Cox on your team.

Fin Thirteen
02-23-2012, 05:54 PM
And that is what round 1 of the draft is all about - getting low risk, high talent, high character, long pro career players.

Keuchly, DeCastro, Ingram, Richardson, these guys will all be there at 8/9 and will improve your team for multiple years with little chance of failure. Don't take unnecessary risk in round one, if you can't move to get a specific guy you're after.

ckparrothead
02-23-2012, 06:01 PM
One could argue that the lack of rookie wage scale makes it worth it to take risks in the 1st round now.

Fin Thirteen
02-23-2012, 06:10 PM
One could argue that the lack of rookie wage scale makes it worth it to take risks in the 1st round now.

Good point. Particularly relevant for a team looking for a backup player/ future successor to an existing player. With the holes we have, I'd be keeping it pretty conservative. Would anyone add Mark Barron to the Fina consideration list at 8/9, or do the hernia ops raise a red flag? Again it's arguably picking beneath our position, but he'll have a long NFL career if he stays healthy.

TedSlimmJr
02-23-2012, 06:46 PM
I think it's important to realize that it's not possible to build a perfect roster in the era of free agency and salary cap. You're always going to have "holes" and "needs" every year, they'll just change from year to year.

There are no perfect rosters in the NFL. What seperates the contenders from the non-contenders isn't the quality of the rosters, it's the quality of the quarterbacks. It doesn't matter how well you've "filled your needs" if you don't have a quarterback. You're not even allowed to participate and sit at the big boy table without one.

When you're picking in the top 10, you need to be picking for TALENT. Period. Fill your "needs" in free agency. Address them in the draft as best you can, but not at the expense of passing up better talent.

ckparrothead
02-23-2012, 07:12 PM
How bass ackwards is it that the entire salary situation with rookies in the top 10 has got me thinking that "risky" picks like a super awesome guard or middle linebacker are now more worth it because of the lower salaries.

The whole thing has turned our concepts of risk on their head. It's made riskless players less risky, and that doesn't even make sense.

TedSlimmJr
02-23-2012, 08:09 PM
The Patriots have had a "need" for a big time pass rusher every year, yet they never take one high in the draft because they're busy taking the more talented players on their draft board... like Rob Gronkowski's, etc.

Your "holes" and "needs" aren't as glaring when you have an elite quarterback. Miami has to get to that point, and it's not going to happen drafting left tackles, right tackles, and centers in the top 10-15 picks every year.

You simply don't have to invest those type of resources to find a couple of offensive tackles that you can win with. Stop signing trash like the Colombo's in free agency and you'll be amazed at what you can accomplish if you solve the QB position.

I'll take guys like Brandon Mosley, Bobby Massie, or Matt McCants later in the draft and be just as good at the right tackle position as if I'd taken Riley Reiff in the top 10. The teams with elite quarterbacks will continue to do exactly that while Miami is busy tring to build a bomb-shelter full of top 10 picks for some so called "gem" of a QB like Kyle Orton, Chad Henne, or Matt Moore that Jeff Ireland had his sights set on.

SF Dolphin Fan
02-23-2012, 11:57 PM
I tend to disagree unless we are talking about quarterbacks. But assuming Miami can get Matt Flynn then I think this draft could fall very well for the Dolphins in the first round. Courtney Upshaw would be the pass rusher the team is looking for and he can play in a 4-3 or 3-4. David DeCastro would fit a big need at RG, although I do think John Jerry is on the rise. Riley Reiff could be in the group as well at RT and then there's Michael Floyd, who I think could be a superstar in the NFL. There's talent that fits what Miami needs.

California
02-24-2012, 12:12 AM
I think it's important to realize that it's not possible to build a perfect roster in the era of free agency and salary cap. You're always going to have "holes" and "needs" every year, they'll just change from year to year.

There are no perfect rosters in the NFL. What seperates the contenders from the non-contenders isn't the quality of the rosters, it's the quality of the quarterbacks. It doesn't matter how well you've "filled your needs" if you don't have a quarterback. You're not even allowed to participate and sit at the big boy table without one.

When you're picking in the top 10, you need to be picking for TALENT. Period. Fill your "needs" in free agency. Address them in the draft as best you can, but not at the expense of passing up better talent.


I could not possibly agree more. You don't win in this league because you're the team with the fewest holes, you win because your positions of strength, your TALENT, present match-up problems and make game changing plays. Even though football is the ultimate team sport, superstars still win games. With a top 10 pick in the draft, you have to come away with a potential superstar who can dominate at their position and win you a football game.

ticophin
02-24-2012, 11:53 AM
I respectfully disagree...I wouldn´t gamble on a late round QB like Foles, Osweiler, Keenum, or others that might turn out to be great, pending a series of variable events and situations. This is the year to load up on one of the 3 top prospects, including the Geriatric QB Weeden, who might be the greatest (for a shorter period of time). But I´ll take going all out for Luck or RGIII, or stocking up on FA and getting Weeden for an exciting 8 years...

MadDog 88
02-24-2012, 02:29 PM
Kuechly at 8 would be the best draft selection the Phins have made in years. This kid plays with the heart of a Lion much the way Zach Thomas did. I think his weakness will be in coverage but he more then makes up with his desire to just play football. I am concerned with Coples work ethic or desire to put in the effort it takes to be succesful. Don't have to worry about that with Kuechly.

Their are numerous RTs to be had in Free Agency or later rounds in the draft. Hopefully Ireland isn't dumb enough to waste the 8 pick on that spot.

CaneHammer
02-24-2012, 02:43 PM
Don't think that was Mayock, it was Todd McShay from ESPN.

I believe Mayock made the comment he would be a pretty good LT but a consistent All Pro RT. (For whatever that is worth)

CaneHammer
02-24-2012, 02:45 PM
How bass ackwards is it that the entire salary situation with rookies in the top 10 has got me thinking that "risky" picks like a super awesome guard or middle linebacker are now more worth it because of the lower salaries.

The whole thing has turned our concepts of risk on their head. It's made riskless players less risky, and that doesn't even make sense.

I agree completely. I honestly have spent more time scratching my head as to what to make of the whole situation. Does it make it more Best Player Available or draft for need?

ckparrothead
02-24-2012, 03:35 PM
I agree completely. I honestly have spent more time scratching my head as to what to make of the whole situation. Does it make it more Best Player Available or draft for need?

It's weird. I think one thing for sure is more quarterbacks. The risk/reward is just TOO tempting when you've only got to pay the guy $3 to $5 million a year, which is already what it costs for a primary backup.

But then what? To me, the players that were less risky but financially imprudent get a big boost. I'll give you an example. How could you take a Guard at #8 overall knowing he'll be paid $8 million a year, which is what multiple Pro Bowler Logan Mankins got? If the guy you pick is anywhere below Logan Mankins then you've detracted from team value. Now, the guy you pick at #8 is getting $3.1 million a year. That makes it a LOT different. He doesn't have to be quite Logan Mankins to end up adding value to your team viz a viz the salary cap structure. There's actually a LOT of leeway now. He can be Richie Incognito and you've not really "busted" the draft pick.

But I also tend to think that high risk/high reward players will get a significant boost. That's why more QBs will get taken, because they're the ULTIMATE high risk/high reward players. Maybe you see more character risk guys taken now...guys LIKE Quinton Coples who are viewed to have all the potential in the world and they just need to seize it. That could increase bust rates in top 10 picks.

The inevitable conclusion is that 1st round draft picks in general just got a HELL of a lot more valuable, relative to all other resources. That's something the league may not have digested yet. But what we're discussing is the market rotation at the high end of the Draft...and that's the squirrely aspect of all this that's tough to predict.

If a team offered me their 1st rounder in 2013 for our 2nd rounder in 2012...I would take that offer in half a second.

where's th'fish
02-25-2012, 01:37 PM
There are no perfect rosters in the NFL. What seperates the contenders from the non-contenders isn't the quality of the rosters, it's the quality of the quarterbacks. It doesn't matter how well you've "filled your needs" if you don't have a quarterback. You're not even allowed to participate and sit at the big boy table without one.


Give me a break, next thing you're going to say is Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Tim Tebow, Mark Sanchez and Alex Smith are all elite

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 01:53 PM
Give me a break, next thing you're going to say is Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Tim Tebow, Mark Sanchez and Alex Smith are all elite

Fact is, who are the teams that have been "consistently" in the playoffs over the past decade?

Colts - Peyton Manning
Patriots - Tom Brady
Chargers - Phillip Rivers
Steelers - Ben Rothlisberger
Giants - Eli Manning
Packers - Rodgers/Favre
Saints - Drew Brees
Eagles - Donovan McNabb (a great QB in his prime)
Kurt Warner led teams have done well

Then you sprinkle in teams with elite defenses:

2011 49ers (record streak for allowing no rushing TDs)
2009/2010 NY Jets
Last decade Ravens
2003 Bucs

So yea you may not "always" need an elite QB, but it damn sure helps and the only teams that didn't win it all w/o that elite QB are the bottom 2 teams that had arguably 2 of the 5 greatest defenses in NFL history.

Just swing for a QB, and if you miss you miss, but damn you can't win the lotto w/o playing a ****ing ticket.

We had a great defense in 2002, hell we had 7 pro bowlers and sure we lost our starting QB for a while, but Jay Fiedler was not good enough. Now in a time where the QB is even more important it is more important than ever to have a QB as the face of your franchise. Enough of Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas and Brandon Marshall being the face, we need the guy under center to be the face for once.

TedSlimmJr
02-25-2012, 03:23 PM
Give me a break, next thing you're going to say is Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Tim Tebow, Mark Sanchez and Alex Smith are all elite


I think it's pretty obvious that Matt Ryan is a helluva lot closer to elite than anything Miami has had since Marino.

Mark Sanchez threw 26 TD's this year... his 3rd year in the league. The last time Miami had a QB throw for 26 TD's was Marino in '94.

Tim Tebow is nowhere near elite, but he beat Miami when his team needed him to.

Flacco is borderline franchise material at the QB position. The point is, he's at least in the discussion.



I couldn't care less if Miami gives you nothing but Jay Fiedler's, Matt Moore's, Chad Henne's/Pennington's, and Pat White's behind Jake Long's from now on. I'm just trying to give you a clue. Whether you want one or not is entirely up to you.

Flip Tanneflop
02-26-2012, 10:16 AM
I think it's pretty obvious that Matt Ryan is a helluva lot closer to elite than anything Miami has had since Marino.

Mark Sanchez threw 26 TD's this year... his 3rd year in the league. The last time Miami had a QB throw for 26 TD's was Marino in '94.

Tim Tebow is nowhere near elite, but he beat Miami when his team needed him to.

Flacco is borderline franchise material at the QB position. The point is, he's at least in the discussion.



I couldn't care less if Miami gives you nothing but Jay Fiedler's, Matt Moore's, Chad Henne's/Pennington's, and Pat White's behind Jake Long's from now on. I'm just trying to give you a clue. Whether you want one or not is entirely up to you.

All you can do is write the prescriptions my friend. If the patients dont follow the instructions on the bottle and continue with behaviors that lead to infections and disease, then you cant blame yourself.

where's th'fish
02-28-2012, 05:04 PM
None of those QBs are elite or close to it. I remember Greg Cosell last season when he discussed how good were Sanchez and Ryan were (it applies to Flacco and the others, too): there's no need to analyze their game, just look at how they're used -their own coaches don't trust them.

To say that you need an elite QB to win is one of the biggest falsities fans love to believe. Sure, Denver beat Miami. But look at the bigger picture. The facts are there. Last year we started winning when the defense started playing better. An elite QB would be great for Miami. But it's still a team sport.