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hooshoops
02-25-2012, 10:40 AM
bang it out here...

cordy glenn runs a sub 5 second first 40 and 1.76 10 yard split at almost 6 ft 6 345 lbs and 35 plus inch arms...31 reps on the bench...you kiddin me hello 1st round pick...continues solid momentum from the senior bowl week and game...

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 10:47 AM
philip blake solid movement skills in the first on field drill...like his feet...another guy stocks on the way up...i'll be surprised if he gets out of the 3rd round...i think blakes underrated

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 10:52 AM
cordy glenn stiff in the first on field drill...not a left tackle i think he'll make a terrific guard though...not having the ability to play an nfl left tackle probably will keep him out of the top 20...still think though that he comes off in the 20-30 range

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 11:17 AM
what am i...here by myself today

cordy glenn solid lookin on the pull blocking drill...i think this jeff allen kid also looks pretty solid...decastro solid as expected he couldn't do anything today that would change my mind about him being a top 10 bpa

mike adams soft on the bench...19 reps...needs to get stronger or he'll struggle with strength...but he moves really well for his size...quite athletic...

MiamiMuss
02-25-2012, 11:24 AM
Decastro ran a 5.34 really?..thought he was faster...I wanne know his splits.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 11:39 AM
Decastro ran a 5.34 really?..thought he was faster...I wanne know his splits.

i wanna say it was 1.86 10 yard split...anyways doesn't matter to me...i thought he'd be a little quicker but the guys so damn good on tape i just don't care...he's killin these on field drills though

decastro mike adams jeff allen cordy glenn philip blake all looking good in the mirror drill...decastro and philip blake showing off outstanding knee bend...mike adams smooth like butter cordy glenn for that size is blowing me away with how well he moves...he's nose tackle weight and moving like a deer

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 11:47 AM
I was gonna say a gazelle, but deer would suffice. I cant make up my damn mind on what I want done at 8. I wanted upshaw, wanted to trade back, wanted coples, wanted decastro....


the more I think about decastro, the more I don't really mind taking him. I am not interested in a guy like reiff. I watched every game hes played being from Iowa and I hate the mocks that have us taking him. I hate the okeefe connection factor. I do like the idea of drafting a guy who can play LT in case long leaves, but why the hell would long leave. we are gonna pay him bank, and he doenst have to pay state income tax.
more and more of glenn, and I will be clamoring for a trade down to 18-22 range and begging for glenn to be the pick. he seems to be on a mission today.

funny, I hate the notion of a OL with our first round pick, and every time I turn around and I am talking myself into one of about 4 different Olineman.

ROADRUNNER
02-25-2012, 11:51 AM
Decastro looked good on the mirror drill............plus the coach keeps asking him to show the rest of the boy's how to do it in the drills.
very coachable person....good pick at 8 i dont know yet.

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 11:51 AM
40 times are extremely overrated in this drill but it was impressive watching Glenn run sub 5 with a Jake Long type 10 yard split.

Decastro is too smooth, there are worse things in the world than drafting him at 8.

Adams looked real solid in the mirror drill, like to see him get those reps up. 19 is terrible for an olineman.

Awaiting the next group with guys like Brandon Washington, Bobbie Massie and Reilly Reiff.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 11:52 AM
glenn played a pretty solid left tackle in the senior bowl game...i think you might be able to get away with him there in a pinch...but right tackle and guard i think he's a fit...

i can't wait to see peter konz today...that kids terrific on tape...i expect him to kill it...kevin zeitler can't hold his jock

if we get a qb in free agency and take decastro at #8 i'm fine with it...looks like a 10 year all pro to me

Hayden Fox
02-25-2012, 11:52 AM
Pass rusher at 8. No question in my mind.

If we go Oline, then it needs to be a RT. Taking a guard in the top ten is terrible value.

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 11:55 AM
Pass rusher at 8. No question in my mind.

If we go Oline, then it needs to be a RT. Taking a guard in the top ten is terrible value.

If Jake Long is the future, and will remain a Dolphin for the next 5 years . . . then taking a RT top 10 is much worse than taking the best OG prospect since Steve Hutchinson. Decastro ****s on any OT in this draft (well outside of Kalil).

I fully believe our RT is on the team already, to get Decastro and throw him at LG and allow Incogs to play RG . . . our OLine really becomes alot better.

But I agree, Coples or Claiborne at 8 for me . . . both improve the pass rush.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 11:58 AM
good luck getting ireland to sign off on a pass rusher at #8 that lacks the prototype measurables...

ROADRUNNER
02-25-2012, 12:01 PM
#22 working his *** off, dont know who it is but well done to him.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 12:02 PM
you guys know how this is gonna go right...luck is a lock to indy the browns have pretty much told anyone in attendance that they're trading up to #2 for rg3 and st louis is gonna be willing to do it cause they get one of justin blackmon or morris claiborne at #4 jax is gonna scoop up coples at #7 the bucs will go either claiborne if he gets to em or trent richardson if he runs well this weekend

bpa for us very well may be decastro at #8...

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 12:05 PM
cordy glenn runs the same 10 yard split just about as matt kalil...but with 40 more lbs on him...wow

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 12:08 PM
you guys know how this is gonna go right...luck is a lock to indy the browns have pretty much told anyone in attendance that they're trading up to #2 for rg3 and st louis is gonna be willing to do it cause they get one of justin blackmon or morris claiborne at #4 jax is gonna scoop up coples at #7 the bucs will go either claiborne if he gets to em or trent richardson if he runs well this weekend

bpa for us very well may be decastro at #8...

I have thought about this also:

Luck, RGIII, Kalil, Blackmon, Coples, Claiborne, Richardson as the first 7 picks off the board . . . leaving us with a bunch of 2nd tier guys like Reiff, Martin, Wright, Floyd, Upshaw, Kuechly, Brockers and Ingram.

Decastro and Tannehill would definitely be 2 wildcards to consider at that point, though both are probably considered reaches at that point. Decastro wouldn't fall much further than that, he probably is a better pick than trying to trade down, although I wouldn't mind fielding offers to see what we could get for the pick. Pretty sure teams would be interested in one of the tackles at that point..

Hayden Fox
02-25-2012, 12:12 PM
good luck getting ireland to sign off on a pass rusher at #8 that lacks the prototype measurables...

Did Cam Wake have "measurables"? I think if the guy can fit in the NFL and get after the passer he will take him. Upshaw is a fine fit as OLB. Ingram is more of a "misfit", but he also could be a match up nightmare.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 12:15 PM
Did Cam Wake have "measurables"? I think if the guy can fit in the NFL and get after the passer he will take him. Upshaw is a fine fit as OLB. Ingram is more of a "misfit", but he also could be a match up nightmare.

was cam wake drafted in the top 10 by anyone or ireland for that matter...bet you bottom dollar ireland does not use a top 10 pick on a de/olb that measures in at less than 6 ft 2...upshaw and ingram won't happen that high

riley reiff 1.71 10 yard split...pretty damn good

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 12:18 PM
Look like we have some Brandon Washington hataz on the NFL network. He definitely was a bit over his head at LT, but at LG he has major potential.

Hayden Fox
02-25-2012, 12:18 PM
If Jake Long is the future, and will remain a Dolphin for the next 5 years . . . then taking a RT top 10 is much worse than taking the best OG prospect since Steve Hutchinson. Decastro ****s on any OT in this draft (well outside of Kalil).

I fully believe our RT is on the team already, to get Decastro and throw him at LG and allow Incogs to play RG . . . our OLine really becomes alot better.

But I agree, Coples or Claiborne at 8 for me . . . both improve the pass rush.

It is a terrible decision to take a guard in the top ten. Your Hutchinson comparison to DeCastro is on in terms of the player, but Hutchinson went 17 not 8. I have an issue with that. Tackles are much more valuable than guards. Guards can be unearthed easier than a RT.

I am not sure who you think the the RT is on the roster already, but I can say Garner and Jerry could fill in at RG. However, I think it is roster neglect to go into the year with Jerry and Murtha as the answer at RT.

Look...I am not advocated for a RT at 8. I am thinking pass rusher. However, if the pick comes down to an O-lineman, it has to be at Tackle.

(BTW, if Manning is signed somehow, RT all of sudden soars to the top of the list in my mind)

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 12:19 PM
I have thought about this also:

Luck, RGIII, Kalil, Blackmon, Coples, Claiborne, Richardson as the first 7 picks off the board . . . leaving us with a bunch of 2nd tier guys like Reiff, Martin, Wright, Floyd, Upshaw, Kuechly, Brockers and Ingram.

Decastro and Tannehill would definitely be 2 wildcards to consider at that point, though both are probably considered reaches at that point. Decastro wouldn't fall much further than that, he probably is a better pick than trying to trade down, although I wouldn't mind fielding offers to see what we could get for the pick. Pretty sure teams would be interested in one of the tackles at that point..

imo tannehill goes to the top of the target list for us at #8 if we miss on manning and flynn...if miami wants tannehill they have to worry about washington at #6 and seattle right behind us...i don't think ireland will take the chance if he gets to us he'll pull the trigger...just the way i see it

it will be coples reiff tannehill decastro if blackmon did get to us provided we had a qb in free agency i think thats in play but i doubt he gets out of the top 5...us stayin in front of carolina though helps us for him cause i think the panthers would have pounced had he gotten to them as a wr for the long term future for newton

JCane
02-25-2012, 12:21 PM
hoops I just got back to my hotel room. Watching now...finally. Is there an actual schedule of when certain positions are working out?

I thought the QBs were going today? But the info on the guide says K, OL, and TE.

:idk:

Hayden Fox
02-25-2012, 12:22 PM
was cam wake drafted in the top 10 by anyone or ireland for that matter...bet you bottom dollar ireland does not use a top 10 pick on a de/olb that measures in at less than 6 ft 2...upshaw and ingram won't happen that high

riley reiff 1.71 10 yard split...pretty damn good

No, Cam Wake was not drafted in the top 10, but the Fins gave good money to CFL free agent based on a projection.

I am not assuming either that Coples goes to Jacksonville. Coples could very well be on the board.

The idea of Ireland and his prototypical theories is mostly a creation of this board. We do not know one way or the other about this...

Didn't he "go against the grain" by going after Reggie Bush? He is not a Parcellian-like guy.

Pass rusher is better value than any guard in this draft.

ROADRUNNER
02-25-2012, 12:23 PM
qb rb and wr tomorrow............dl and lb mon...........db tues.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 12:25 PM
hoops I just got back to my hotel room. Watching now...finally. Is there an actual schedule of when certain positions are working out?

I thought the QBs were going today? But the info on the guide says K, OL, and TE.

:idk:

tomorrow qbs wr rbs monday dline lbs and tuesday dbs...none of the top qbs are throwing tomorrrow though...to my knowledge

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 12:28 PM
It is a terrible decision to take a guard in the top ten. Your Hutchinson comparison to DeCastro is on in terms of the player, but Hutchinson went 17 not 8. I have an issue with that. Tackles are much more valuable than guards. Guards can be unearthed easier than a RT.

I am not sure who you think the the RT is on the roster already, but I can say Garner and Jerry could fill in at RG. However, I think it is roster neglect to go into the year with Jerry and Murtha as the answer at RT.

Look...I am not advocated for a RT at 8. I am thinking pass rusher. However, if the pick comes down to an O-lineman, it has to be at Tackle.

(BTW, if Manning is signed somehow, RT all of sudden soars to the top of the list in my mind)

I have to disagree with you. Grabbing an "elite" pulling guard to throw in between Long and Pouncey would be incredible. It would allow us to place Ritchie at RG where he can be more of a mauler who has learned how to pull a bit.

You are sleeping on John Jerry, he put in the work last year, he got better and he has the movement to be a solid RT . . . I wouldn't discount him. Lydon Murtha was looking extremely well at RT before he went down and Garner is a depth guy but can fill in, in a pinch. Plus we can always throw guys later on in the draft in the mix there as well. You can find RT's later on, you aren't getting a LG like Decastro later in the draft or in FA at the 8th pick price.

I know Colombo has scarred many people to thinking a RT is some premium top 10 necessity . . . it isn't. Colombo is gone and so is the guy who got wet when we brought him here.

You don't draft RT's in the top 10 either, and whoever we draft would be a RT.

JCane
02-25-2012, 12:28 PM
tomorrow qbs wr rbs monday dline lbs and tuesday dbs...none of the top qbs are throwing tomorrrow though...to my knowledge

Tomorrow is better for me anyway. DEFINITELY looking forward to Coby Fleener later this afternoon.

:bobdole: @ Brandon Washington

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 12:29 PM
No, Cam Wake was not drafted in the top 10, but the Fins gave good money to CFL free agent based on a projection.

I am not assuming either that Coples goes to Jacksonville. Coples could very well be on the board.

The idea of Ireland and his prototypical theories is mostly a creation of this board. We do not know one way or the other about this...

Didn't he "go against the grain" by going after Reggie Bush? He is not a Parcellian-like guy.

Pass rusher is better value than any guard in this draft.

they liked cam wake so much they gave him a peanuts contract...averaging $1.5 mil per is peanuts...they had no idea wake would become what he did if they did they wouldn't have sat him behind joey porters corpse for so long

jax and coples is an ideal fit...you don't agree no worries...about anything to be honest

this new cba means just about any position can be in play anywhere cause your not paying a guy to play interior line $45 mil anymore in the top 10...if decastro becomes what i think he is steve hutchinson all over again he's well worth it...left guard is a premium position on the oline anyways if you ask me...your primary pull position...decastro and pouncey side by side would be money

Hayden Fox
02-25-2012, 12:35 PM
I do think the stadium would burn down if they took a guard in the top ten. So we could get a new stadium out of it.

You trade back someone and take DeCastro then I have no issue. A RT can go in the top ten esp. when he has the ability to play LT if Long walks or continues his injury trend.

CaneHammer
02-25-2012, 12:43 PM
hoops I just got back to my hotel room. Watching now...finally. Is there an actual schedule of when certain positions are working out?

I thought the QBs were going today? But the info on the guide says K, OL, and TE.

:idk:

I am in and out all day... What happened to B Washington??

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 12:48 PM
i think if manning comes here right tackle becomes the play in the top 10 in which case i think reiff becomes the target...to me a right tackle is no more valuable draft wise than a left guard...i think its much easier to find a serviceable right tackle than it is to find a solid left guard...heck guys who can play right tackle are on the street all the time as they get older...you just got to pick the right one...a marc colombo is the worst available one

i'd pull the trigger on a once a decade like interior oline prospect like decastro any day over a right tackle in the top 10...honestly though decastros just the best football player oline prospect so thats the way i'd go considering we have a at best average left guard right now...and i mean at best

this new cba pay scale changes a lot of things...

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 12:52 PM
I do think the stadium would burn down if they took a guard in the top ten. So we could get a new stadium out of it.

You trade back someone and take DeCastro then I have no issue. A RT can go in the top ten esp. when he has the ability to play LT if Long walks or continues his injury trend.

You could say the same about drafting a RT also (in regards to the stadium burning down), Dolfans want a QB, nothing much matters after that. Hell you could put big Vernon Carey back at RT and it would be a vast improvement over Colombo. Colombo sucked.

You aren't trading back and getting Decastro, he'll be gone by the 11 pick to KC and no tackle is drafted in the top 10 to play RT, they all are drafted to eventually be LT and if they never become one, it is considered a major dissappointment. I'm not drafting a RT with the 8th overall with the assumption Jake may "test free agency". Plus he is like the highest paid LT in the game, we'll franchise him and save money :lol:

RT is a position to address but it is a position you can address in the 2nd round. Bobbie Massie, Andrew Datko, James Brown . . . I mean there are guys that will represent some value and can play RT from day one in addition to our RT's already on the team. I dunno, I see many people wanting a RT and it would be fine but not with the 8th overall. Player to player, none of them stand up to Decastro . . . you would literally be getting an "elite" prospect in Decastro and an everyday RT with Reiff or Martin. I'll take the elite prospect anyday.

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 12:53 PM
kudos to adam gettis for putting on a display this morning. 4.91 40 with a 1.65 split, and a 9.4" broad jump. didn't see that iowa boy showing off at the combine at all. cool to see as an Iowa fan.

Riley is actually doing decent. under average on the 40 time with a great split of 1.71. not that I put much stock into a 40 for a lineman, but its nice to see how these big men moved when they are being timed. thought the 23 reps was a bit less than expected, and the hand measurement was a bit bigger than I expected.

cordy glenn is a machine. massive hands, 345#s and smoking through the 40. didn't catch his split... did anyone get it?

zeitler is a guy I had mentioned in the 2nd to shore up an OG spot. he is what I have always thought he was, just a solid guy with solid numbers. no peter konz by any means, but I'd be okay with him at 42. It's been a toss up for me from an OG standpoint, IF adressing it in teh 2nd round between zeitler and osemele, as decastro, konz, and glenn should be out of the equation by the time 42 rolls around.

not impressed with zebrie sanders much, nor am I intrigued by mike adams. seems slow and 19 reps on the bench is something I could do as a high school kid.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 12:54 PM
so far riley reiff showing me right tackle feet...what i expected...pretty good form but not the fleetest of feet...he looks a little doughy to me also

Hayden Fox
02-25-2012, 12:55 PM
You could say the same about drafting a RT also (in regards to the stadium burning down), Dolfans want a QB, nothing much matters after that. Hell you could put big Vernon Carey back at RT and it would be a vast improvement over Colombo. Colombo sucked.

You aren't trading back and getting Decastro, he'll be gone by the 11 pick to KC and no tackle is drafted in the top 10 to play RT, they all are drafted to eventually be LT and if they never become one, it is considered a major dissappointment. I'm not drafting a RT with the 8th overall with the assumption Jake may "test free agency". Plus he is like the highest paid LT in the game, we'll franchise him and save money :lol:

RT is a position to address but it is a position you can address in the 2nd round. Bobbie Massie, Andrew Datko, James Brown . . . I mean there are guys that will represent some value and can play RT from day one in addition to our RT's already on the team. I dunno, I see many people wanting a RT and it would be fine but not with the 8th overall. Player to player, none of them stand up to Decastro . . . you would literally be getting an "elite" prospect in Decastro and an everyday RT with Reiff or Martin. I'll take the elite prospect anyday.

If Jake Long is injured again this year, do you give that elite money? I am not sure...that is my answer.

KC is not going guard.

Datko sucks...not an option.

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 12:55 PM
I am in and out all day... What happened to B Washington??


didnt see if he had benched yet. ran a pretty sloppy 40.. got off course slightly to his right a bit.. mayock was on his sack like stink on ****... 5.19 with a 1.77 split. 320# 33" arms

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 12:57 PM
so far riley reiff showing me right tackle feet...what i expected...pretty good form but not the fleetest of feet...he looks a little doughy to me also

agreed... I think and have always thought watching him that he translates to a RT. he may have some LT measurables or qualities, but IMO.. he plays and tests like a solid RT... which in certain cases, might not be all bad. a jake long, riley reiff bookend on the line isnt all that bad.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 12:58 PM
holy cow that silatolu small school kid just moved awfully damn well in that drill...those feet are outstanding...wow

MiamiMuss
02-25-2012, 12:58 PM
Jonathon Martin is starting to make me think hes the guy....VERY fluid motion.Perfect guy that can come play right tackle immediatly then if need be play left tackle.

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 12:59 PM
holy cow that silatolu small school kid just moved awfully damn well in that drill...those feet are outstanding...wow


midwestern state... hahahaha

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 12:59 PM
been nice to see him in the senior bowl.

datruth55
02-25-2012, 01:03 PM
Jonathon Martin is starting to make me think hes the guy....VERY fluid motion.Perfect guy that can come play right tackle immediatly then if need be play left tackle.
If we do incorporate a zone blocking scheme he would make more sense than Reiff IMO. Reiff doesn't look that smooth to me. David DeCastro is killing these drills though, kid is silky smooth...and who the heck would have guessed Cordy Glenn running 4.96 at 345 lbs??? Wow!

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 01:04 PM
Jonathon Martin is starting to make me think hes the guy....VERY fluid motion.Perfect guy that can come play right tackle immediatly then if need be play left tackle.

not enough of a mauler for me on the right side...lacks strength...needs some time in an nfl weight room...

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 01:04 PM
If Jake Long is injured again this year, do you give that elite money? I am not sure...that is my answer.

KC is not going guard.

Datko sucks...not an option.

Hypotheticals with injuries aren't my thing. The lack of an offseason affected Jake, he couldn't rehab properly. He has that ability now and he is entering a contract year. Jake is going to have his best year this season, I'd put money on that. He'll be 100%.

I'm cool with you wanting a RT, I'd personally be upset with it but we've seen worse from Miami so nothing would surprise me. Getting a guy like Reiff does fit a need I just think that need is easier to fill in round 2 or with guys already on the team and we would still have an "at best average" LG in Incognito and the same question marks at RG with guys who "may" be able to step in. Decastro solidifies LG and RG with Incognito.

Oh well, hopefully Coples or Claiborne drop like I want them to and this isn't an issue :lol:

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 01:05 PM
midwestern state... hahahaha

i need to see some of that kids tape...cause i'm like wow with his movement skills and feet in that drill

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 01:07 PM
didnt see if he had benched yet. ran a pretty sloppy 40.. got off course slightly to his right a bit.. mayock was on his sack like stink on ****... 5.19 with a 1.77 split. 320# 33" arms

Not bad times at all with 28 reps . . . like I said . . . hataz. Mayock wanted him to stay in school but BW is one of the best OG prospects in this draft.

Hayden Fox
02-25-2012, 01:07 PM
Hypotheticals with injuries aren't my thing. The lack of an offseason affected Jake, he couldn't rehab properly. He has that ability now and he is entering a contract year. Jake is going to have his best year this season, I'd put money on that. He'll be 100%.

I'm cool with you wanting a RT, I'd personally be upset with it but we've seen worse from Miami so nothing would surprise me. Getting a guy like Reiff does fit a need I just think that need is easier to fill in round 2 or with guys already on the team and we would still have an "at best average" LG in Incognito and the same question marks at RG with guys who "may" be able to step in. Decastro solidifies LG and RG with Incognito.

Oh well, hopefully Coples or Claiborne drop like I want them to and this isn't an issue :lol:

Totally agree about the pass rusher...DeCastro is a 12 year starter...no question. I am just not sure about going interior oline again.

I am looking at any Iowa player because of the coaching connection. Philbin talked about getting more athletic and this Gettis kid might fit the profile.

Should be a fun few months leading up to the draft.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 01:09 PM
where the hecks peter konz??? i've missed any drills with martin it seems but i got this bad boy on the dvr

jim1
02-25-2012, 01:10 PM
If we do incorporate a zone blocking scheme he would make more sense than Reiff IMO. Reiff doesn't look that smooth to me. David DeCastro is killing these drills though, kid is silky smooth...and who the heck would have guessed Cordy Glenn running 4.96 at 345 lbs??? Wow!


Stanford's DeCastro draws raves for on-field combine workout

Stanford guard David DeCastro (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7412/david-decastro) isn’t particularly long or fast from a Combine measurable perspective, but word out of Indianapolis is that he turned heads when performing more football-related activities on the field.

“From what I was told, he was highly impressive in on-field drills,” said NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock.

“Hard to look better than DeCastro during morning offensive line drills,” chimed in ESPN director of college scouting Todd McShay (https://twitter.com/#!/McShay13/status/173446827411116032).

DeCastro is 6-foot-4 7/8 and 316 pounds, but 32 3/4-inch arms will keep him at guard in the pros. DeCastro ran “unofficial” forty times of 5.34 and 5.47. His broad jump was 8 feet and two inches.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/25/stanfords-decastro-draws-raves-for-on-field-combine-workout/

jim1
02-25-2012, 01:12 PM
where the hecks peter konz??? i've missed any drills with martin it seems but i got this bad boy on the dvr

I love Konz as a prospect, but I was surprised by his 225 bench rep results- lower than I expected.

6-5
314 lbs
9 1/4" hands
18 reps

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 01:13 PM
that gettis kid showed pretty well but he's undersized at 290 lbs...not sure he can carry much more weight...i'd stay away personally

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 01:15 PM
I love Konz as a prospect, but I was surprised by his 225 bench rep results- lower than I expected.

6-5
314 lbs
9 1/4" hands
18 reps

Probably his biggest weakness is his lack of strength but he is such a technician he more than makes up for it on the field. Just solid everything.

Hayden Fox
02-25-2012, 01:15 PM
that gettis kid showed pretty well but he's undersized at 290 lbs...not sure he can carry much more weight...i'd stay away personally

Iowa connection with Philbin and Joe has said he wants "more athleticism". Day 3 project?

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 01:19 PM
Iowa connection with Philbin and Joe has said he wants "more athleticism". Day 3 project?

my concern is he came to iowa at 225 and now is carrying 290...i just think that he might be maxed out...might be one of those kids from iowa who are overachievers cause they're so well coached

i'd pass personally...

MiamiMuss
02-25-2012, 01:19 PM
not enough of a mauler for me on the right side...lacks strength...needs some time in an nfl weight room...

Wondering why we need a mauler for the right side...Curious as to why he didnt do the bench or for that matter why any player doesnt do any of the drills?

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 01:21 PM
Probably his biggest weakness is his lack of strength but he is such a technician he more than makes up for it on the field. Just solid everything.

yeah i'd like more strength but that kids text book and he moves people...1st round grade all the way

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 01:25 PM
brandon washington looked like garbage in that kick slide pass pro drill...

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 01:27 PM
Wondering why we need a mauler for the right side...Curious as to why he didnt do the bench or for that matter why any player doesnt do any of the drills?

is martin not working out and did he not bench??? if he didn't bench probably cause he lacks strength would be my guess...anyways i just like a mauler run blocker on the right side...i think reiffs got some nasty in him but i don't love the work i'm seeing from him today and i don't like his body all that much...

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 01:33 PM
kevin zeitlers showing better than i expected...still don't think he's a top 3 guard but you can tell he's well coached

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 01:40 PM
this oline class looks better than i expected...

ROADRUNNER
02-25-2012, 01:43 PM
this oline class looks better than i expected...

And Decastro too...............im on the band wagon for him at #8

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 01:48 PM
way too much the analysts talkin and not enough on field video for us to see...stop talkin so damn much...no one cares what jamie dukes fat *** looks like showing us a drill...skip this garbage

10 minutes of nothing right then...could have shown us group 2 oline drills instead i get lombardi and billick diatribe

miamiron
02-25-2012, 01:57 PM
i'd pull the trigger on a once a decade like interior oline prospect like decastro any day over a right tackle in the top 10.

Once in a decade oline prospect
you've gone insane

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 01:59 PM
Gettis is probably only.worth a late round flyer. I didnt see any of this.coming at all. Hes testing better than he plays Imo.., and as hoops mentioned hes probably only maxed out weightwise. Hes a typical undersized hawkeye. Motor motor motor. I too missed everything konz related...wtc is wifh that? Im going back to my 2nd round guard train of thought again. I like zeitler inside, and with washingtons kickslide id take him inside if anytbing. My preference would tend to be zeitler, osemele, as a 2nd round interior line prospect. If i start talking a reiff/ zeitler draft i may be driven to drink as that goes against everything i stand for from a draft day standpoint.

MiamiMuss
02-25-2012, 02:02 PM
Once in a decade oline prospect
you've gone insane

Hes not the only person on here saying this.Decastro has been the buzz of the olineman so far aswell as Glenn whos a physical specimen.Glenn might projec t more as a RT with the 35 3/4 arm length but hes off the charts for a guy weighing 345

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 02:04 PM
4.84 for Allen is pretty bad.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 02:08 PM
Once in a decade oline prospect
you've gone insane

if you say so...

dwayne allen 4.84 say good bye first round...egnew fast but i think he's garbage...ladarius green 4.8 flat...hello 4th round

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 02:10 PM
igwenagu who i like as a kuhn type for our o 4.66

MiamiMuss
02-25-2012, 02:13 PM
wow Allen.

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 02:14 PM
Well orson charles and colby fleener just pissed in my cheerios

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 02:17 PM
ehhh...this te class looks like a lot of what we already have in charles clay...exceptions fleener and maybe green cause of length...i thought dwayne allen would at least run a low 4.6

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 02:17 PM
James hanna burning it up. 4.42/1.59. Deangelo peterson has some explosion in regards to the vert and broadjump. Ideal size and weight id say. Interesting he ran 2 tenths fastef than allen with a slower ten yard split. What gives with allen?

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 02:19 PM
i think some of these times are off...hanna didn't look that fast..will be interesting to see what these 2nd run numbers look like

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 02:19 PM
Agreed hoops. I thought for sure wed need to spend a 2nda rounder on a te... peterson in the third im not sure id complain to much

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 02:21 PM
This definitely is looking like a weak TE class . . . we may have to pass this year . . . guys will be getting overdrafted at TE.

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 02:22 PM
Alot of these guys seem to be losing time at the top end. 1.59 split for peterson on the second attempt..almost 2 tenths better than his first split and a slower overall time.

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 02:23 PM
Fleener and charles not running is intriguing. Wonder if they wish they had with some of these times that are out there.

MiamiMuss
02-25-2012, 02:24 PM
Green wih some really solid 40 times

---------- Post added at 01:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------


Fleener and charles not running is intriguing. Wonder if they wish they had with some of these times that are out there.
Ecspecially since Allens 40 times.Allen right now is behind those 2 TE's

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 02:32 PM
So is fleener sitting out of everything? Wtf

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 02:35 PM
I think Fleener is nursing an injury, I see him standing out there but he has his jacket on.

ANUFan
02-25-2012, 02:37 PM
Who the hell is #7? The guys is dropping everything.

ROADRUNNER
02-25-2012, 02:38 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/02/2532991-1.jpg...Evan Rodriguez, starting to like him.............#14

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 02:49 PM
Much cleaner second efforf by charles.

MiamiMuss
02-25-2012, 02:53 PM
Green is looking very solid so far.Any1 know what round hes projected.

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 02:58 PM
Green is looking very solid so far.Any1 know what round hes projected.

I thought he would have run a little faster but he definitely is the best looking physical speciman out there and he is very explosive. He has a 4th round grade right now but he fits the mold of some of these TE's in the NFL that are having success so he could get overdrafted. I would say late on day 2 seems more appropriate but he needs to gain some more weight. Get up to around 250.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 03:05 PM
orson charles not running is a red flag imo...i'm thinking he's gonna run a dwayne allen like # thus he's waiting...charles looks raw to me...imo best looking te in drills is still dwayne allen...very smooth...40 time hurts though...

ladarius green looks like he can carry 10 more lbs to me...another raw guy though...imo 4th round is where i think his value falls given he ran 4.8...but with that length maybe he goes round 3...i think i'd wait though

egnew is garbage in drills imo...just couldn't separate at the senior bowl week...not a fan

looks like if anyones going round 1 its fleener...not much here to get excited about

that harkey kid i think his name is from ucla can't run but he can block you into next week...might make someone a solid 3rd te

evan rodriguez is not even 6 ft 2 and not even 240 lbs...no thanks...not when i already have charles clay in house

ROADRUNNER
02-25-2012, 03:08 PM
hoops what do you think of #14....Rodriguez.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 03:11 PM
hoops what do you think of #14....Rodriguez.

he's not even 6 ft 2 and not even 240 lbs...i got charles clay already who has better measurables than that...i don't see the point...

he looks solid in drills but i don't like the measurables and in the nfl they matter...i pass...he can run i just don't see a fit for us

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 03:13 PM
he's not even 6 ft 2 and not even 240 lbs...i got charles clay already who has better measurables than that...i don't see the point...

These TE's are short this year. There definnitely isn't the Virgil Green's and Julius Thomas' like last year. Outside of Fleener and Green I think we aren't getting an upgrade over Clay or Fasano for that matter.

DJ Williams was a 5th rounder last year, I cannot count on one hand the amount of TE's that are better from this class.

2413fanphins
02-25-2012, 03:13 PM
Very underwhelming group. Nothing really excites me to this point.

ROADRUNNER
02-25-2012, 03:16 PM
he's not even 6 ft 2 and not even 240 lbs...i got charles clay already who has better measurables than that...i don't see the point...

he looks solid in drills but i don't like the measurables and in the nfl they matter...i pass...he can run i just don't see a fit for us

Thank's i just like what he's doing..............

jim1
02-25-2012, 03:19 PM
I'm not watching this combine coverage- I assume it's on NFLN- but I'm curious as to how Brandon Mosely does, I'm expecting him to look pretty smoothe out there at look the part as a RT. Very intriguing prospect imo. He strikes me as a solid, natural athlete.

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 03:26 PM
Green with an official 4.53 . . . yea he definitely improved his stock today.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 03:27 PM
if i'm miami i'm lookin for my seam threat te in free agency...we need someone with a large catch radius that can run...fleener is probably the best fit in the draft but i think he can be a little soft at times...given his length and i expect him to run at least 4.6 i think he goes late round 1 especially with all these kids under 6 ft 3 and heck even 6 ft 2 in this class...

looks like a lot of pro h backs to me...although i do think dwayne allen can play in line and play well...i just wanted better wheels from him...

like others have said underwhelming class...a lot of no thanks in it

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 03:28 PM
Green with an official 4.53 . . . yea he definitely improved his stock today.

they had green at 4.8 on the nfl network coverage...they had dwayne allen at 4.84

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 03:34 PM
they had green at 4.8 on the nfl network coverage...they had dwayne allen at 4.84

Both improved on their 2nd 40's.

Allen with an official 4.78 and Green with an official 4.53. Still not blistering from Allen, but better and Green probably gained a round today.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 03:38 PM
Both improved on their 2nd 40's.

Allen with an official 4.78 and Green with an official 4.53. Still not blistering from Allen, but better and Green probably gained a round today.

ahh ok...they didn't show the 2nd runs...i'll take that as greens a mid 4.6's guy and yeah i think that probably keeps him in 3rd round contention...given that length and potential to add a little weight to his frame

dwayne allen being a 4.8 guy just not what i expected at all...

TedSlimmJr
02-25-2012, 03:38 PM
Ladarius Green has an "official" time of 4.53. Although these "official" mean nothing, they're not "official". Every NFL team there will have their own times for all these guys.

I watched both of Green's runs on NFL.com and they were both sub 4.5 when he ran 'em. Also had a 34.5" vertical jump and a 10'4" broad jump.

TedSlimmJr
02-25-2012, 03:45 PM
Dwayne Allen was in the 4.8 range.... but so was Tony Gonzalez. He'll be a good player, unlike most of these other guys who run 4.4 and 4.5. Watch the tape.

hooshoops
02-25-2012, 03:46 PM
i just will never understand why the nfl can't get these times right on these 40's...all this money this league generates and the best we can get is unofficial official numbers

Kdawg954
02-25-2012, 04:06 PM
Ryan Broyles with 21 reps on the 225 bench. Only 30" arms but still its good to see he has been hittin the weights while down with an injury.

Ideal slot guy.

MiamiMuss
02-25-2012, 05:04 PM
Dwayne Allen was in the 4.8 range.... but so was Tony Gonzalez. He'll be a good player, unlike most of these other guys who run 4.4 and 4.5. Watch the tape.

Although i do agree with you that Allen will be a solid TE,whats your thoughts on Ladarius Green?

ROADRUNNER
02-26-2012, 09:22 AM
Day two who you all looking out for...............

PaPhinz
02-26-2012, 10:05 AM
RG3 4.41 40 unofficial. Seems slow :)

ANUFan
02-26-2012, 10:06 AM
RG3 4.41 40 unofficial. Seems slow :)

:chuckle:

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 10:14 AM
RgIII sailing! Looking forward to a closer look at keenum and foles. Hoping tannehill and weeden both test. Was nice to see an old hawkeye in jewell hampton on the bench. Wow!!!! 4.38 on rg iii second run!

PaPhinz
02-26-2012, 10:18 AM
I wonder if RG3's teammate will beat his 40 time. I have to imagine Kendall will come close

PaPhinz
02-26-2012, 10:22 AM
Joe Adams (WR) 4.53 unofficial. I thought he'd run faster than that.

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 10:22 AM
Im anticipating a few more sub 4.4 40s from a few guys yet. A couple hurricanes could do it. Wright will be close. Gettin fun

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 10:22 AM
Slower than i thought as well

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 10:24 AM
Travis benjamin i want you returning kicks for me! NOW

ANUFan
02-26-2012, 10:26 AM
Travis benjamin i want you returning kicks for me! NOW

Don't we already have a WR more or less like that in Clyde Gates?

jim1
02-26-2012, 10:27 AM
Joe Adams (WR) 4.53 unofficial. I thought he'd run faster than that.

Utterly shocked at that. Did h get out of the blocks slow or something. No f****** way this kid should run anywhere as slow as that. Ludicrous. He's faster than that- maybe it causes him to slip to us in the 4th, who knows. I didn't hink that he was running until his pro day anyway.

All I know is that Joe Adams can fly:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byPjkmgUcWg

ANUFan
02-26-2012, 10:28 AM
Is this one of the weaker draft classes?

rrrrphin
02-26-2012, 10:32 AM
floyd made some cash

ANUFan
02-26-2012, 10:32 AM
Yes he did

PaPhinz
02-26-2012, 10:34 AM
Stephen Hill 4.30 flat unofficial. Damn!

rrrrphin
02-26-2012, 10:36 AM
Hill's numbers need to be confirmed...wow 4.3

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 10:37 AM
Did clyde gates impress you with his return skills? I was left less than luke warm, and even more underwhelming is bess returning punts.

PaPhinz
02-26-2012, 10:37 AM
Utterly shocked at that. Did h get out of the blocks slow or something. No f****** way this kid should run anywhere as slow as that. Ludicrous. He's faster than that- maybe it causes him to slip to us in the 4th, who knows. I didn't hink that he was running until his pro day anyway.

All I know is that Joe Adams can fly:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byPjkmgUcWg


Yea I saw him play and he absolutely can fly, maybe he just got a bad jump. I'm curious to see what type of time Alshon has. I know he shed some weight before the combine.

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 10:38 AM
Hill just flew but how well does he catch? I like his size, but i dont knos the ga tech offense very well. Isnt it mostly triple option?

ANUFan
02-26-2012, 10:38 AM
Stephen Hill 4.30 flat unofficial. Damn!

@6' 4 -215lb ? geez

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 10:39 AM
Alshon isnt running....wtc

PaPhinz
02-26-2012, 10:39 AM
Oh nm Alshon isn't running. That seems like a bad decision for him considering all the questions about his work ethic and stuff.

Hayden Fox
02-26-2012, 10:40 AM
Can Mike Mayock stop bitching when a guy does not perform at the combine?

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 10:42 AM
I agree with mike though. If your healthy run, otherwise why are you here?

Hayden Fox
02-26-2012, 10:42 AM
Mayock loves any ND player at the combine.

Michael Floyd will be a diva bust, btw.

ANUFan
02-26-2012, 10:44 AM
I agree with mike though. If your healthy run, otherwise why are you here?

Makes no sense at all to me. IMO that looks really bad!

Hayden Fox
02-26-2012, 10:44 AM
I agree with mike though. If your healthy run, otherwise why are you here?

I agree with you, but him "calling out" Luck, RGIII and Blackmon is over the top. We get it Mike, you want these guys to work out at the combine. However, he will be the first to cover these guys' pro days.

jim1
02-26-2012, 10:45 AM
Did clyde gates impress you with his return skills? I was left less than luke warm, and even more underwhelming is bess returning punts.

Absolutely- Gates is more of a straight line flyer, that's why I think that Joe Adams would bring a lot to the table for us in terms of return ability and quicks in the slot on top of flat out speed. I have no explanation or understanding of how that kid could run a 4.53.

PaPhinz
02-26-2012, 10:46 AM
I see Hill's 4.30 was a fluke. 2nd run a mediocre 4.31 :)

jim1
02-26-2012, 10:46 AM
Yea I saw him play and he absolutely can fly, maybe he just got a bad jump. I'm curious to see what type of time Alshon has. I know he shed some weight before the combine.

Does Adams have a second attempt at the 40 coming?

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 10:48 AM
They have joe on the list as a 4.44 now... fyi

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 10:51 AM
I can remember one kick gates returned that had any makings of going for chunk yardage. Im not sold on him contributing much. To each his own, id like an upgrade but who knows if benjamin is that upgrade....

PaPhinz
02-26-2012, 10:51 AM
They have joe on the list as a 4.44 now... fyi

Do you know if that was his 2nd attempt or did they adjust his first? 4.44 seems to make more sense

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 10:52 AM
Not positive but i think it was adjusted. Unless i missed both his and benjamins 2nd attempt. They had travis at a 4.32 and he was a 4.37.

PaPhinz
02-26-2012, 11:08 AM
Man that gauntlet drill has to be nerve wracking. Travis Benjamin had a rough start. Seems like once you get out of rhythm it's hard to recover from.

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 11:10 AM
I agree. He struggled. See how the second attempt goes. Blackmon is a friggin specimen

PaPhinz
02-26-2012, 11:10 AM
Floyd looked really good The best I remember seeing in that drill was Jason Avant

ANUFan
02-26-2012, 11:12 AM
Stephen Hill just moved himself up to a 2nd or 3rd round pick

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 11:13 AM
Jason hill showing some hands to go along with that 40 time. Interesting prospect

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 11:14 AM
Sorry had jason avant in the brain! Lol

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 11:15 AM
Is jeffrey doing any drills or just skipping the 40?

PaPhinz
02-26-2012, 11:23 AM
Is jeffrey doing any drills or just skipping the 40?

I'm not sure, the only thing I heard was them say he wasn't going to run. I haven't seen him in any of the drills so far but I may have missed it if he did anything.

PaPhinz
02-26-2012, 12:23 PM
Wow luck unofficial 2nd run was 4.59 just like Cam. I knew he was athletic but I didn't realize he was that fast

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 12:26 PM
He tested similar to cam across the board.

MiamiMuss
02-26-2012, 12:42 PM
Stephen Hill just moved himself up to a 2nd or 3rd round pick

Not sure on the exact numbers but Hill had a 30+ ypc his seniors year like 28 catches for 820 yards.Unreal stat and i dont recall any other wr doing somethin like this b4.GT is a run 1st offense aswell.

beanh8er
02-26-2012, 12:43 PM
Damn Devier Posey just ran a 4.37.

MiamiMuss
02-26-2012, 12:44 PM
Wow luck unofficial 2nd run was 4.59 just like Cam. I knew he was athletic but I didn't realize he was that fast

Ill never forget the hit he laid on the db i think from USC.Laid his azz out.36" vert with a 4.6 is very impressive for a guy weighing 240.

Hes gonna be a stud.

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 12:48 PM
Wow nflnetwork! Commercial break when streeter is ready to run? Thanks

PaPhinz
02-26-2012, 12:59 PM
Yea it seems like when they go to commercial you end up missing a bunch of guys running. I think you can watch it on nfl.com though live as well, at least you used to be able to. I was really hoping they had retired that freakin NAPA commercial after March Madness last year

MiamiMuss
02-26-2012, 01:02 PM
ya ive been watching it at nfl.com...No commercials lol.

jim1
02-26-2012, 01:18 PM
Is jeffrey doing any drills or just skipping the 40?


WR Alshon Jeffery, #SouthCarolina (http://www.finheaven.com/#!/search/%23SouthCarolina) is training at St Vincents here in Indy. Sources say he's weighing 249lbs + running a 4.88 Forty

http://twitter.com/#!/DraftCountdown

MiamiMuss
02-26-2012, 01:25 PM
this is very interesting considering i read he was down to 219 i believe,

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012-nfl-combine-results-wide-receivers/

jim1
02-26-2012, 01:29 PM
this is very interesting considering i read he was down to 219 i believe,

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012-nfl-combine-results-wide-receivers/

That's a good point, I looked it up and he weighed in at 216- maybe he went on a crash diet and I guess those numbers are old, innacurate or both. We'll see what he runs, if he's running.

I just saw this:

As expected, #SouthCarolina (http://www.finheaven.com/#!/search/%23SouthCarolina) WR Alshon Jeffery is not running at the #ScoutingCombine (http://www.finheaven.com/#!/search/%23ScoutingCombine) despite being healthy

http://twitter.com/#!/DraftCountdown

PaPhinz
02-26-2012, 01:29 PM
WR Alshon Jeffery, #SouthCarolina (http://www.finheaven.com/#%21/search/%23SouthCarolina) is training at St Vincents here in Indy. Sources say he's weighing 249lbs + running a 4.88 Forty

http://twitter.com/#!/DraftCountdown (http://twitter.com/#%21/DraftCountdown)

Damn if he was at 249 when that was tweeted then he lost 33 pounds in 12 days. I wish I could drop weight that quick :)

Geforce
02-26-2012, 01:58 PM
WR Alshon Jeffery, #SouthCarolina (http://www.finheaven.com/#!/search/%23SouthCarolina) is training at St Vincents here in Indy. Sources say he's weighing 249lbs + running a 4.88 Forty

http://twitter.com/#!/DraftCountdown

This was reported and refuted some time ago on another board. Based on a tweet by Alshon himself, he was in Columbia with Melvin Ingram the night of January 7th and his agent says Jeffery had been training for the combine in Tampa since January 8th.

Unless Alshon was in Indy immediately after the bowl game on January 2nd, it is highly doubtful he was ever in there.

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 02:19 PM
Man i cant get behind mayocks crush on kellen moore

Hayden Fox
02-26-2012, 02:50 PM
Anyone see the poor guy from Miss State that tripped and crashed into the camera/timing machine on his 40. Poor guy.

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 02:54 PM
Any guesses how fast miller is gonna fly. Im looking for something faaaaaast

Hayden Fox
02-26-2012, 04:19 PM
I love Miller. I think he will be the best RB in the draft when it is over.

Miami used him at times in odd ways.

BTW, how much speed did Randy Shannon and Al Golden have on that team?

TedSlimmJr
02-26-2012, 04:52 PM
I wouldn't put too much emphasis on guys like Joe Adams or Kendall Wright running slower than expected. I think it's similar to the case of Joe Haden when he went to combine and ran disappointing 40 times. Everybody around here freaked out. He just didn't train properly for the technique to run the fastest 40 possible.

Joe Haden being the best CB in the draft was never in question in my mind, all you had to do was watch the tape.


A lot of these guys run blazing 40's but they just don't play the game that fast.

That's why you should never fall in love or out of love with players based on their combine performances. If you've put in the work on film study, you're only looking for confirmation of what you see on tape. If guys are having amazing combines and testing through the roof, but don't have the production to match... or don't play up to those specs on film. it's usually a red flag.

2413fanphins
02-26-2012, 05:07 PM
Slimm.... whats your take on trichs knee procedure? Probably nothing to be too worried about, but i imagine teams will be exploring it hard.

ChambersWI
02-26-2012, 05:09 PM
sounds like my Michigan boys (David Molk, Mike Martin, and Junior Hemmingway) all have been having nice combines so far.

IMO (and this is not being a homer), I feel like those 3 are extremely undervalued right now. Maybe it's because of how bad Michigan was during RichRod's 3 seasons here, but they're all very good in their own right. With Hemmingway, small injuries and QB play/style kept him from really producing consistently.

jim1
02-26-2012, 05:11 PM
Agreed- I don't remember what Haden ran the 40 in, but it doesn't matter- he's one hell of a player. 4.53 for Joe Adams shocked me- 4.44 doesn't do his game speeed justice either, at all. What does concern me is, in light of how valued and scrutinzed these 40 times are- if he didn't prepare properly maybe it's a sign of stupidity or laziness- and that's just a guess, a caveat. I have nothing to back that up- maybe he just can't run the 40 well. But when I've seen the guy play, I see more of a 4.3 guy- or better- than a 4.44 or God forbid a 4.53. Just ludicrous.

TedSlimmJr
02-26-2012, 05:18 PM
Slimm.... whats your take on trichs knee procedure? Probably nothing to be too worried about, but i imagine teams will be exploring it hard.


It was just a scope, he'd be playing right now if he had a game. It's just precautionary.

He sustained the knee injury in RB drills before the national championship game, which makes his 96 yard peformance against LSU even more impressive.

He has a great body of work and plenty of game film for teams to look at. He'll be ready for Bama's pro day.

TedSlimmJr
02-26-2012, 05:24 PM
Agreed- I don't remember what Haden ran the 40 in, but it doesn't matter- he's one hell of a player. 4.53 for Joe Adams shocked me- 4.44 doesn't do his game speeed justice either, at all. What does concern me is, in light of how valued and scrutinzed these 40 times are- if he didn't prepare properly maybe it's a sign of stupidity or laziness- and that's just a guess, a caveat. I have nothing to back that up- maybe he just can't run the 40 well. But when I've seen the guy play, I see more of a 4.3 guy- or better- than a 4.44 or God forbid a 4.53. Just ludicrous.


I think he's probably been working on other things that he needed to improve on more rather than his 40 time. Like route running and trying to make his hands more consistent. Those were the things that he needed the most work on.

Joe Adams has football speed. A lot of these other guys only have track speed, and it shows in their technique when they run the 40. Their football speed isn't in the same solar system as Joe Adams'.


The guy with the most impressive combine so far out of anybody there has been Oklahoma TE James Hannah. He tested through the roof in every category, especially for his size. But he's yet another example of a guy who just doesn't play the game of football anywhere near how he tests athletically. He struggles just to catch the football consistently.

dolfan_101
02-26-2012, 06:04 PM
God damn how good is Andrew Luck? This guy is so money it's not even fair.

jim1
02-27-2012, 09:47 AM
Draft Countdown tweet on Riley Reiff:

Iowa (http://www.finheaven.com/#!/search/%23Iowa) OT Riley Reiff may get chosen in the Top 12 but he isn't any better of a prospect than Bryan Bulaga, who went 23rd

rrrrphin
02-27-2012, 11:09 AM
Branch, Coples, Cox, Irvin and Ingram all looking good so far today with 40 times
http://walterfootball.com/combine2012DL.php

jim1
02-27-2012, 11:26 AM
Branch, Coples, Cox, Irvin and Ingram all looking good so far today with 40 times
http://walterfootball.com/combine2012DL.php

I'm probably in the minority on this one, but Coples worries me as an underachiever whose lack of production has to be justified by his supporters and he comes across with a gung ho attitude that I find a bit dubious. Is he talented? Sure. But at #8, in the absence of a trade down, I'd take the elite OG DeCastro and be done with it. I'd imagine that he'd not only do a great job protecting Moore or whomever plays QB, but he'll end up being one of Reggie Bush's best friends, helping to turn good runs into great ones with his blocking at the LOS and downfield. Dude is elite- physically, mentally, discipline wise, the whole ball of wax. He'll help set the tone. I could care less if it's playing it safe this time, take the sure thing, the truly great player where we need help, and the new salary cap dynamics are a compelling part of the argument as well. If you want to take a chance- trade up and get Weeden.

And if Brandon Mosely is available in the 4th rd- grab him. Still wondering on how far Joe Adams might slide as a result of that deceptively bad 40 time. Dude is sick fast, regardless of what he clocked in indy.

j-off-her-doll
02-27-2012, 11:32 AM
Was really surprised to see that time next to K. Wright's name, but I agree with Slimm. He plays fast. I expected him to run a low 4.4 at worst. I'd still consider him in a trade-down scenario, and I still like him as the best compliment to Marshall in the draft. Of course, if we're going Manning and Wayne comes with Manning, we won't be drafting a WR very high.

ckparrothead
02-27-2012, 11:59 AM
I've looked at a lot of tape of Quinton Coples and I do not see an underachieving player. I see an underachieving defense, and a system that unlike a year ago did not necessarily put him in position to collect all the big plays by putting him closer to the ball. Their ability to cover the quick passing game was just not there, and there's not much Quinton can do about that. You look at the Mizzou game, that's what you see...the Mizzou offense hitting up the UNC defense with the ground game and quick passing game. If Mizzou tried to run at Coples, unless they isolated him and forced him to make a two-way decision on an option, he swallowed the ball consistently. And even though most of the Mizzou passing game was all quick game with the ball out in 2 seconds, which he couldn't do anything about from his End position, he did find a way to make a high impact play closing on James Franklin and hitting his arm as he threw, which caused an interception.

Hoops and I debated about what Coples was going to show at the Combine. He didn't think Coples would show as well at the Combine as Jason Pierre-Paul. I believe he will, and he already appears to be having a better Combine.

To be fair, I don't think hoops realized Pierre-Paul showed up to the Combine as mediocre as he did. But that in itself is part of the problem with the JPP comparisons. People are contaminated by hindsight on Pierre-Paul. They remember him as a high motor player that didn't take plays off like Coples is often accused of doing. That wasn't really the case. They remember him being super explosive at the Combine. There was infamous footage of him doing a series of handsprings on the field once, but his Combine showing was just sort of "good" which highlights another aspect of JPP's draft stock that goes unremembered which were the consistent rumors that originated out of the South Florida locker room that JPP was not a leader, and was a slack off worker.

Similarly, you've got this picture people like to paint of Coples as a guy who doesn't want it, who takes plays off, lax effort, etc. It's a typical accusation levied at unusually large, unusually explosive players. I'm not phased. I saw Jason Pierre-Paul overcoming his demons, and I see the same with Coples.

ckparrothead
02-27-2012, 12:03 PM
I saw a specific problem with Kendall Wright's 40 technique that may have affected his 40 the same way it affected Joe Haden's a few years ago. I don't think the 40 was indicative of his speed in this case. I question the thumbs involved in that 4.61 official time, since I believe his first unofficial time was a 4.45. That's too wide of a disparity, and there was enough weirdness going on in his technique at the start of the run for me to throw the time away.

jim1
02-27-2012, 12:06 PM
I've looked at a lot of tape of Quinton Coples and I do not see an underachieving player. I see an underachieving defense, and a system that unlike a year ago did not necessarily put him in position to collect all the big plays by putting him closer to the ball. Their ability to cover the quick passing game was just not there, and there's not much Quinton can do about that. You look at the Mizzou game, that's what you see...the Mizzou offense hitting up the UNC defense with the ground game and quick passing game. If Mizzou tried to run at Coples, unless they isolated him and forced him to make a two-way decision on an option, he swallowed the ball consistently. And even though most of the Mizzou passing game was all quick game with the ball out in 2 seconds, which he couldn't do anything about from his End position, he did find a way to make a high impact play closing on James Franklin and hitting his arm as he threw, which caused an interception.

Hoops and I debated about what Coples was going to show at the Combine. He didn't think Coples would show as well at the Combine as Jason Pierre-Paul. I believe he will, and he already appears to be having a better Combine.

To be fair, I don't think hoops realized Pierre-Paul showed up to the Combine as mediocre as he did. But that in itself is part of the problem with the JPP comparisons. People are contaminated by hindsight on Pierre-Paul. They remember him as a high motor player that didn't take plays off like Coples is often accused of doing. That wasn't really the case. They remember him being super explosive at the Combine. There was infamous footage of him doing a series of handsprings on the field once, but his Combine showing was just sort of "good" which highlights another aspect of JPP's draft stock that goes unremembered which were the consistent rumors that originated out of the South Florida locker room that JPP was not a leader, and was a slack off worker.

Similarly, you've got this picture people like to paint of Coples as a guy who doesn't want it, who takes plays off, lax effort, etc. It's a typical accusation levied at unusually large, unusually explosive players. I'm not phased. I saw Jason Pierre-Paul overcoming his demons, and I see the same with Coples.

Good post, as Coples certainly is talented. Who was that DL a few years back who had that youtube clip of him jumping out of a pool of water that was kind of amazing? I forget his name, I wonder what happened to him, I just remeber that athletic wise that dude looked elite. He might have been a DT out of San Jose St or something like that.

It cuts both ways- Coples could inded end up being great. I've been saying the same thing about DeCastro for a while- I wouldn't even bring him up as a possible top 10 pick if he wasn't so damned elite.

ckparrothead
02-27-2012, 12:18 PM
Jarron Gilbert. Not sure what happened to him from a mental standpoint...but I've heard some suggestion that from a work ethic standpoint, he's just not getting it. He, like Coples and Malik Jackson, was a Defensive End that was put at Defensive Tackle just to get him closer to the ball, allowing him to make more plays on the ball. Gilbert had experience as a Defensive End and had actually looked compelling at that position, before switching to Defensive Tackle and looking even more compelling.

And you want to talk about a Combine workout, he had a heck of a workout. He was 6052 and 288 lbs, ran a 4.81 with a 1.67 ten yard split, 28 bench reps, 35.5 inch vertical, 9'11" broad jump...just a fast, explosive player. He was the son of former New Orleans Saint Daren Gilbert.

He was drafted in the 3rd round by the Bears and eventually tossed. The Jets picked him up and kicked him around the practice squad a while, eventually trying and failing to make him a blocking TE before kicking him to the curb. The Bills picked him up at the end of the 2011 season. He appeared in one game for the Jets at the end of the 2010 season (22 snaps) and had a TFL. A boat load of physical talent but I'm guessing terrible work ethic and/or attitude torpedoed him.

Wouldn't be surprised if he keeps getting chances, though.

MadDog 88
02-27-2012, 12:29 PM
In the little I saw day one I was impressed with Michael Egnew of Missouri. Although not rated high I thought he possessed nice hands and executed the passing drills the best of the TEs there.

WelcomeBack
02-27-2012, 12:36 PM
Wow Nick Perry's numbers.

jim1
02-27-2012, 12:43 PM
Jarron Gilbert. Not sure what happened to him from a mental standpoint...but I've heard some suggestion that from a work ethic standpoint, he's just not getting it. He, like Coples and Malik Jackson, was a Defensive End that was put at Defensive Tackle just to get him closer to the ball, allowing him to make more plays on the ball. Gilbert had experience as a Defensive End and had actually looked compelling at that position, before switching to Defensive Tackle and looking even more compelling.

And you want to talk about a Combine workout, he had a heck of a workout. He was 6052 and 288 lbs, ran a 4.81 with a 1.67 ten yard split, 28 bench reps, 35.5 inch vertical, 9'11" broad jump...just a fast, explosive player. He was the son of former New Orleans Saint Daren Gilbert.

He was drafted in the 3rd round by the Bears and eventually tossed. The Jets picked him up and kicked him around the practice squad a while, eventually trying and failing to make him a blocking TE before kicking him to the curb. The Bills picked him up at the end of the 2011 season. He appeared in one game for the Jets at the end of the 2010 season (22 snaps) and had a TFL. A boat load of physical talent but I'm guessing terrible work ethic and/or attitude torpedoed him.

Wouldn't be surprised if he keeps getting chances, though.

This is from, uh, Omar, but it's been bantered round by more than just him and Mayock:

"Defensive end Quinton Coples knows he needs an image makeover. He knows the film clearly shows he played to not get hurt in his senior season at North Carolina. Player who make a business decision like that usually do it again, and again. That’s why teams are hesitant about declaring him one of this draft’s elite talent. Athletically Coples is a freak of nature. But coaches are scared of players who easily turn it on and off. I’d rather have a undersized player like South Carolina’s Melvin Ingram, who has a Ferrari motor, than a Bentley with a Honda engine."

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2012/02/miami-dolphins-lessons-learned-from-the-nfl-combine.html

I read an interview that Coples gave, and I just wasn't sold by how he went about it. The guy is obvioulsy immensely talented, but Gilbert, Alonzo Spelman, et al- why take the chance? Sometimes it works- Darrell Gardener for example (but we could have had Ray Lewis), sometimes it doesn't with guys like Gilbert and Spellman, and maybe Coples. Michael Brockers is intriguing as hell, too.

Any one who knows me knows that I'm hardly risk adverse, but in this situation I'd just rather have what might be the surest thing in the whole draft, a guy who has All-Pro written all over him. Maybe take Jake Bequette later in the draft for a DE, I don't know. But make sure that a premium drat pick sticks- I don't think that you can go wrong with DeCastro. Maybe Blackmon does fall due to a possible bad 40, who knows. But he's a stud as well whom I'd be much more comfortable with over Coples.

ckparrothead
02-27-2012, 01:04 PM
Well, Alonzo Spellman is bipolar. I don't think there's been any indication of that kind of severe personality disorder in Quinton Coples. I hear that accusation about Coples making a "business decision" trying not to get hurt his senior season. I think it's typical of the kind of total horse sh-t you see thrown around this time of year that is based on next to nothing.

I never saw why people say that Michael Brockers is going to tear up the running drills at the Combine. I see a slow guy on the field, personally. Moves well laterally, interesting strength, but not a fantastic athlete. You ask me Quinton Coples or Michael Brockers ON THE FIELD, and it's Quinton Coples, all day, every day.

If you take a Jake Bequette hoping to get a Quinton Coples, be prepared to be disappointed.

Jarron Gilbert is a fair concern with Coples. But there were some differences. Coples did it more consistently against much better competition than Gilbert, and he also moved from tackle to end whereas Gilbert moved from end to tackle. If you're considering both guys as ends, then you prefer the guy that moved from tackle to end, as his most recent experience is where you want him.

Incidentally I think Dontari Poe just showed everyone why I've had him mocked to the Panthers at #8 or #9 overall for months. An unofficial 4.87 in the 40 at like 347 lbs or whatever he weighs. He also did 44 bench reps. When you watch him on tape, he has highly, highly unusual get-off at that size. They'd put him at Defensive End and he'd get off the ball better than guys 100 lbs lighter, and I'm not just talking about 1st and 2nd step, I'm talking 3rd and 4th steps as well, bending the arc like a 260 lbs outside pass rusher at 350 lbs. We went gaga when Glenn Dorsey showed that ability as a 300 lbs guy. This is a 350 lbs guy. As Simon said in our recent Draft Winds (he was paraphrasing from something I said to him), Poe went to the carpet a bit because he doesn't use his hands right yet and could get off balance, but in his defense he gets off the carpet like a man 100 lbs lighter.

TheWalrus
02-27-2012, 02:02 PM
Jacksonville is considered the most likely team to take Coples, but I'm just not seeing it. You look at Gene Smith's history, and he likes hard workers and small school types. The negatives on Coples are overblown, but he just doesn't strike me as a Jacksonville kind of guy. Add that to a coaching staff was specifically brought in to fix Gabbert (and a GM looking to justify that pick to his new owner), and I think there's a very real chance that Coples is there when we pick.

CK makes a good comparison between JPP and Coples, especially with hindsight being 20-20 on JPP, who was considered a lazy and stupid athletic freak who only got like 5 sacks his last year in college against mediocre competition and didn't test to expectations at the combine. I don't think Coples is quite the freak that JPP is athletically. His arms are shorter, he doesn't move as explosively (at least to me). But even something of a poor man's JPP is good value at #8.

Plus, I trust Kacy Rodgers in this kind of deal. You see what he did with Soliai, who's as freakish an athlete as anyone in the NFL for his size but was probably even a worse case than JPP from a mentality standpoint, and you extrapolate that on to Coples? Man, you could really have something there.

ckparrothead
02-27-2012, 02:08 PM
Jacksonville is considered the most likely team to take Coples, but I'm just not seeing it. You look at Gene Smith's history, and he likes hard workers and small school types. The negatives on Coples are overblown, but he just doesn't strike me as a Jacksonville kind of guy. Add that to a coaching staff was specifically brought in to fix Gabbert (and a GM looking to justify that pick to his new owner), and I think there's a very real chance that Coples is there when we pick.

CK makes a good comparison between JPP and Coples, especially with hindsight being 20-20 on JPP, who was considered a lazy and stupid athletic freak who only got like 5 sacks his last year in college against mediocre competition and didn't test to expectations at the combine. I don't think Coples is quite the freak that JPP is athletically. His arms are shorter, he doesn't move as explosively (at least to me). But even something of a poor man's JPP is good value at #8.

Plus, I trust Kacy Rodgers in this kind of deal. You see what he did with Soliai, who's as freakish an athlete as anyone in the NFL for his size but was probably even a worse case than JPP from a mentality standpoint, and you extrapolate that on to Coples? Man, you could really have something there.

I think the reality is that Coples is more of a power player than Pierre-Paul, and will be better against the run. I don't know that it's fair to call him a "poor man's JPP"...because it really implies that there's no chance he'll be as good or better than JPP. That MAY be the case, I don't know...but it's not something we should conclude right now.

TheWalrus
02-27-2012, 02:16 PM
I think the reality is that Coples is more of a power player than Pierre-Paul, and will be better against the run. I don't know that it's fair to call him a "poor man's JPP"...because it really implies that there's no chance he'll be as good or better than JPP. That MAY be the case, I don't know...but it's not something we should conclude right now.

Sounds like a perfect fit for a position we have no one to fill right now in LDE.

ckparrothead
02-27-2012, 02:21 PM
Sounds like a perfect fit for a position we have no one to fill right now in LDE.

Absolutely.

Problem is I think Luke Kuechly is as freakish a player as Coples, but with better mental characteristics, and he could be a very high impact defensive LEADER and ICON for like 10 or 12 years. Really tough call there. Can never have too many guys that can rush the passer and it's a need, but Kuechly might be the better player. Best player versus need. It'll get you every time.

mnphinfan
02-27-2012, 02:30 PM
Absolutely.

Problem is I think Luke Kuechly is as freakish a player as Coples, but with better mental characteristics, and he could be a very high impact defensive LEADER and ICON for like 10 or 12 years. Really tough call there. Can never have too many guys that can rush the passer and it's a need, but Kuechly might be the better player. Best player versus need. It'll get you every time.

If we resign Langford and have a 4-3 D-line that's Langford/Starks/Odrick/Wake I definitelly wouldn't mind Kuechly at 8. His ability to diagnose the play presnap and instincts afterwards remind me alot of ZT. Kuechly paired with Burnett at WOLB, Dansby at SOLB and the forementioned D line would give us an amazing front 7.

jlfin
02-27-2012, 02:47 PM
If we resign Langford and have a 4-3 D-line that's Langford/Starks/Odrick/Wake I definitelly wouldn't mind Kuechly at 8. His ability to diagnose the play presnap and instincts afterwards remind me alot of ZT. Kuechly paired with Burnett at WOLB, Dansby at SOLB and the forementioned D line would give us an amazing front 7.

Kuechly is not short like ZT. He reminds more of a John Offerdahl. I would take that type of leadership and instincts any day

mnphinfan
02-27-2012, 02:57 PM
Kuechly is not short like ZT. He reminds more of a John Offerdahl. I would take that type of leadership and instincts any day

It's his presnap diagnosis of the play and instincts to flow to the ball after the snap which remind me of ZT, not his size. I guess I should have been more clear on that, but ya Offerdahl much more in his stature.

rrrrphin
02-27-2012, 03:17 PM
Kuechly ran an unofficial 4.50 forty..... in the play @ #8????

TheWalrus
02-27-2012, 03:26 PM
If you draft Keuchly then you're left with three linebackers who can play all three downs in a league where you only need two. In general I think it's important in the draft to avoid operating like a plumber -- plugging holes -- instead of a talent acquirerer. Over time you end up with a bunch of good players who get booted from the playoffs early instead of a core of superstars who can make runs at a Super Bowl.

But with that being said, you bring in Kuechly then who's leaving the field in nickel packages? We're not in a position like the Patrick Willis one where your star middle linebacker is nearing the end (and I don't think people are saying Kuechly is another Willis, anyway). It's an important consideration, especially when you might be in position of deciding between a guy like Kuechly and a guy like Coples, who plays a position of need and one of more import than MLB.

ckparrothead
02-27-2012, 03:36 PM
Kuechly ran an unofficial 4.50 forty..... in the play @ #8????

He was before he ran that 40 time. He posted a 10'8" broad jump which is among the best in the Combine regardless of position, and 38 inch vertical which is also among the best in the Combine regardless of position.

IMO, you can get all three linebackers a whole lot of snaps in nickel. It's not that difficult, especially because Karlos Dansy is so big and versatile.

WelcomeBack
02-27-2012, 03:44 PM
He was before he ran that 40 time. He posted a 10'8" broad jump which is among the best in the Combine regardless of position, and 38 inch vertical which is also among the best in the Combine regardless of position.

IMO, you can get all three linebackers a whole lot of snaps in nickel. It's not that difficult, especially because Karlos Dansy is so big and versatile.

I think Kuechly and Kendricks both provide something we don't have and I would take either of them, of course Kendricks in the 2nd-3rd round though.

ckparrothead
02-27-2012, 03:49 PM
If you draft Keuchly then you're left with three linebackers who can play all three downs in a league where you only need two. In general I think it's important in the draft to avoid operating like a plumber -- plugging holes -- instead of a talent acquirerer. Over time you end up with a bunch of good players who get booted from the playoffs early instead of a core of superstars who can make runs at a Super Bowl.

But with that being said, you bring in Kuechly then who's leaving the field in nickel packages? We're not in a position like the Patrick Willis one where your star middle linebacker is nearing the end (and I don't think people are saying Kuechly is another Willis, anyway). It's an important consideration, especially when you might be in position of deciding between a guy like Kuechly and a guy like Coples, who plays a position of need and one of more import than MLB.

We don't really HAVE a star middle linebacker. We haven't since Zach was here. Karlos Dansby is not that player. He's a big, fast and versatile player capable of making big plays, but he made his bones as an OUTSIDE linebacker in Arizona. He's a coverage guy, a blitz guy, makes plays that way. He's also what, 31 or 32 years old? This off season if he were a real leader like you'd expect Kuechly to be, he wouldn't have shown up something like 20 or 30 lbs overweight, having to play his way into shape to where the defense sucked for the first half of the year. And if he were the player we thought, we wouldn't have so obviously missed Channing Crowder's football IQ for most of the season. These are the things you'd be getting in Luke Kuechly.

You JUST got done saying if you keep drafting for need and not best player, you end up with an underachieving team. Dansby is 31 or 32 years old, regardless of what his pay is, he's got his strengths and weaknesses. He's not going to be around forever.

And Burnett is like 30 years old, on the 2nd year of a 4 year deal.

Even so, I'm having a tough time seeing why we can't get all three players on the field a significant number of snaps. Didn't Kevin Coyle in his interviews just get done saying that in today's league, your nickel defense is fast becoming your base defense? With Karlos Dansby's prowess as a blitzer, why can't we utilize a 3-3-5 defense on nickel downs, with our fourth rusher coming from any number of directions, be it a defensive back, Dansby, Burnett, Kuechly, etc?

TedSlimmJr
02-27-2012, 03:53 PM
I'd be more comfortable with Malik Jackson in the 2nd or 3rd round than I would Coples in the top 10. There's things about Coples that I like, but also things that I question. Too many questions to take him in the top 10 when I think I can get a virtual clone of him with less question marks later.

Nick Perry is the guy who's going to give left tackles fits in the NFL with his lower body explosion and pass rush ability. He's my top rated 4-3 defensive end.

WelcomeBack
02-27-2012, 03:57 PM
If the Dolphins are going to work on defense, I'd be okay with this:

1. Nick Perry
2. Mychal Kendricks

TedSlimmJr
02-27-2012, 04:01 PM
There's probably a case to be made somewhere/somehow for Miami to pass up Kuechly at #8 overall..... but Karlos Dansby and Kevin Burnett are not it.

Kuechly isn't the prospect or player Patrick Willis was, but you don't pass up Kuechly because you "already have" Dansby and Burnett. Just like you don't pass up Patrick Willis because you already have Zach Thomas and Channing Crowder.

Miami is probably going to be in need of a Mike 'backer and Kuechly is as good as it gets.

Kuechly has to at least be in consideration for the #8 overall pick for a team like Miami, along with several other players, or Jeff Ireland needs to be fired again.... for about the 5th time.

TheWalrus
02-27-2012, 04:44 PM
We don't really HAVE a star middle linebacker. We haven't since Zach was here. Karlos Dansby is not that player. He's a big, fast and versatile player capable of making big plays, but he made his bones as an OUTSIDE linebacker in Arizona. He's a coverage guy, a blitz guy, makes plays that way. He's also what, 31 or 32 years old? This off season if he were a real leader like you'd expect Kuechly to be, he wouldn't have shown up something like 20 or 30 lbs overweight, having to play his way into shape to where the defense sucked for the first half of the year. And if he were the player we thought, we wouldn't have so obviously missed Channing Crowder's football IQ for most of the season. These are the things you'd be getting in Luke Kuechly.

You JUST got done saying if you keep drafting for need and not best player, you end up with an underachieving team. Dansby is 31 or 32 years old, regardless of what his pay is, he's got his strengths and weaknesses. He's not going to be around forever.

And Burnett is like 30 years old, on the 2nd year of a 4 year deal.

Even so, I'm having a tough time seeing why we can't get all three players on the field a significant number of snaps. Didn't Kevin Coyle in his interviews just get done saying that in today's league, your nickel defense is fast becoming your base defense? With Karlos Dansby's prowess as a blitzer, why can't we utilize a 3-3-5 defense on nickel downs, with our fourth rusher coming from any number of directions, be it a defensive back, Dansby, Burnett, Kuechly, etc?

I was just trying to acknowledge both sides of the argument. There are people who'll completely throw out Kuechly because of Dansby and Burnett, but I think it's important not to do that for the reasons I've stated. But I do think that when you're trying to decide between Kuechly and Coples, the current situation at LB has to be part of the discussion. One could conceivably fill the MLB spot with a two down player (like Channing Crowder, if he didn't hate Jeff Ireland) and play a more conventional nickel scheme (allowing our strength at DL to be maximized) and feel reasonably good about that, too.

Hayden Fox
02-27-2012, 09:27 PM
I saw a specific problem with Kendall Wright's 40 technique that may have affected his 40 the same way it affected Joe Haden's a few years ago. I don't think the 40 was indicative of his speed in this case. I question the thumbs involved in that 4.61 official time, since I believe his first unofficial time was a 4.45. That's too wide of a disparity, and there was enough weirdness going on in his technique at the start of the run for me to throw the time away.

Interesting. I was REALLY surprised at his 40 time. He plays faster than that it seems. Tough combine for him.

Hayden Fox
02-27-2012, 09:31 PM
I am not a Kuechly guy. Too high at 8. That has to be a pass rusher or something to aid a Peyton Manning signing. Kuechly is a numbers hanger with his tackles.

Kdawg954
02-27-2012, 09:37 PM
Kuechly definitely surprised me with his athletic ability and even though it is just the combine, I think he confirmed in my eyes that he is in contention for the #8 pick. Sub 4.6, impressive broad jump and vertical and immense instincts . . . I still would want a pass rusher but Kuechly would be a great add, especially if we go more 4-3.

MiamiMuss
02-27-2012, 09:48 PM
There's probably a case to be made somewhere/somehow for Miami to pass up Kuechly at #8 overall..... but Karlos Dansby and Kevin Burnett are not it.

Kuechly isn't the prospect or player Patrick Willis was, but you don't pass up Kuechly because you "already have" Dansby and Burnett. Just like you don't pass up Patrick Willis because you already have Zach Thomas and Channing Crowder.

Miami is probably going to be in need of a Mike 'backer and Kuechly is as good as it gets.

Kuechly has to at least be in consideration for the #8 overall pick for a team like Miami, along with several other players, or Jeff Ireland needs to be fired again.... for about the 5th time.

I am very interested as to why Kuech isnt the "prospect or player that Patrick Willis was".Seriously he has won more awards then Willis.Made more tackles in 2 seasons then Willis's whole college career.

Kuech's combine number are almost identical to Willis' and im more then Absolute that Kuech will lick Patricks 12 wonderlic score.

Willis is very good but hes not the end all as far as linebackers go.The 49ers defense played better without him.

miamiron
02-27-2012, 10:37 PM
miami used him at times in odd ways.

Btw, how much speed did randy shannon and al golden have on that team?

not enough to win

Finfan4lyfe91
02-28-2012, 12:28 AM
I'd be more comfortable with Malik Jackson in the 2nd or 3rd round than I would Coples in the top 10. There's things about Coples that I like, but also things that I question. Too many questions to take him in the top 10 when I think I can get a virtual clone of him with less question marks later.

Nick Perry is the guy who's going to give left tackles fits in the NFL with his lower body explosion and pass rush ability. He's my top rated 4-3 defensive end.

I am terrified of taking Coples with a top ten pick. Yes he is a freak athletically but I just don't feel like he has IT. He is missing something that I want to see in a top 10 pick. That determination and passion and want... I was impressed by a number of DE's today including Nick Perry. I will admit I didn't know much about him but I am beginning to learn real quick! Kid id a stud!! I'm not saying I want him at 8 but I would take him in a trade down over Coples at 8 any day.

I don't know if it has been posted on this yet but I would LOVE Michael Floyd. That kid helped his stock immensly. Again sorry if it has been posted but he ran very well and did surprisingly well in the gauntlet drill.

TedSlimmJr
02-28-2012, 03:08 AM
I am very interested as to why Kuech isnt the "prospect or player that Patrick Willis was".Seriously he has won more awards then Willis.Made more tackles in 2 seasons then Willis's whole college career.

Kuech's combine number are almost identical to Willis' and im more then Absolute that Kuech will lick Patricks 12 wonderlic score.

Willis is very good but hes not the end all as far as linebackers go.The 49ers defense played better without him.


If tackle statistics, awards, and Wonderlic score were all that you need to determine a player is equal or superior to the other, there would be no need for scouts to travel to campuses around the country to scout football players.

Did you have the opportunity to watch Patrick Willis play at Ole Miss? He dominated in the SEC. I watched him dominate in the SEC with a cast on his hand, a seperated shoulder, and a broken bone in his foot all at the same time and never miss a game.

Willis was a more explosive tackler than Kuechly is. He forced almost as many fumbles during his MVP performance at the Senior Bowl on one day that Kuechly has in his entire career.... despite Kuechly having about 550 more opportunities to do it.

Willis went out and blistered a 4.37 at his pro day. The reason that's significant is because he played to that speed on film. He still does in the NFL... chasing WR's down from behind 80 yards downfield when nobody else can catch 'em.

You'll find a lot of players who have more tackles in college than Patrick Willis who never sniffed an NFL roster because a lot of 'em accumulate tackle stats by being pile jumpers.

Kuechly's a great prospect, but he's still a notch below Patrick Willis as a prospect to me. Willis was the best defensive player in college football for 2 years running, and the best defensive player in the draft. Kuechly isn't the best defensive player in this draft in my opinion, but he's good enough for me to consider him at #8 in this particular draft with what's likely to be available to me after the first 7 picks are gone.

hooshoops
03-04-2012, 12:39 AM
here's my post combine thoughts...after having finally watched the last group dbs on the dvr...

dontari poe destroyed the combine 346 lbs sub 5 second 40 feet like a damn ballerina in drills you kiddin me...scheme diverse this kids getting top 10 consideration no doubt in my mind...hell carolina behind us should he get by us might pounce...when you say top 10 physical talent that kids pictures in the dictionary...not sayin he'll be a rediculous pro player but i will say is that when we talk about those guys that are rare physical talents who have the potential to be legit impact nfl players and difference makers this kids one of them...that kid can the 40 at 346 lbs like an athlete...i like taamu and think mayocks nuts when he said at his combine wrap up barring skeletons in his closet you can get taamu "late" but when you looked at him and poe side to side as prospects it was no contest upside and tools wise...poe was phenomenal

luke kuechly i think did everything to have a top 10 team giving him strong looks...with the move of misi to ilb this year which some of us have been praying for for what now 2 years if we're gonna play more 43 looks this kids the prototype nfl mike...ran better than 4.6 athletically tested very well and the tapes rediculous...i got no problem taking this kid in the top 10...none...frankly if its up to me our top 10 pick provided we land a qb in free agency ie manning or flynn would be down to poe, coples, kuechly or decastro and i'd be damn happy with any of them...decastro and kuechly are safe high end level nfl players and poe and coples provide that top 10 talent value you want and look for and hope for with a top 10 pick

michael floyd if he's cleared off the field locked up the #2 wr pick this week no question in my mind...ran better than he plays on tape caught everything in site with his hands he's a natural receiver of the ball...on tape gets off press maybe the best of any wr in the draft...alshon jeffery you're fooling no one with you weight loss and not running...justin blackmon looked good in drills and is another guy cutting weight to run fast...he runs mid 4.5's or better and he won't get past st louis in any trade down i guarantee you that...kendall wright dissappointed imo and is in a fight for the #3 wr off the board...4.61 he plays faster than that on tape...looks like a sneaky pats pick at the tail end of round 1 to me


fletcher cox was fantastic...had to lock up a top 20 pick and imo he's a top 15 bpa...300 lbs and great movement skills...kendall reyes i was hoping i could sneak you in the 3rd round so much for that looks like a top 40 pick to me now...another guy who had a great combine...off strong senior bowl momentum...i think he's a nice strength in his hands and quickness 43 dt

was intrigued by the workout of lb denario davis from ark st i think it was liked his length liked his movement and hips i think he's a fast riser...kendrick mychals fantastic workout and hips and feet in drills but at just over 5 ft 11 i doubt he's on miamis board...

george iloka as the last line of defense at free you guys can have slimm and ck...i was worried about those hips and all he showed me was he's way too stiff to man the deep middle...i like his length against te's but when a vertical wr eats up his cushion and he has to transition out of his pedal i think its curtains...

i think brandon taylor at free is someone people are sleeping on...if i can get that kid from lsu in the 5th round i'd pull the trigger...i'm not sayiin he's ed reed but i think he's smart i think he can run and and i think he has better hips and coverage skills than he gets credit for...5th round sign me up

i also like kyle wilbur as a situational pass rusher in the 4th round...his get off is very good i could care less if he ran the 40 in like 4.9 i want that kid to hunt the qb and he's got solid tools and a solid body to work with

melvin ingram had a hell of a workout i saw more straight line in him on tape than i saw at the combine...but i still wouldn't use a top 10 pick on him...i like the pass rush arsenal though have to say that...

i thought morris claiborne was fantastic in drills...188 lbs is a little light for me but he's got awesome tools...long arms looks taller than he is if he gets to 8 run the card up...needs some work on his technique like mayock and even deion said he too high in his pedal in drills but thats kids got off the charts tools...he could be a hell of a boundary cb

alfonso dennard i'm starting to wonder if he should be kicked inside to safety...cause i see some stiff hips and average tools for a boundary cb...frankly i'd stay away he's buyer beware to me

trumaine johnson looks like another classic tweener to me...a sean smith like...not quick twitch or high end tools enough to play the boundary i think if anything the value in him is at free safety...i saw a lot of guys at the combine who came in being viewed as potential high end pick cbs who as pros better get physical and move to safety...and those kids scare me...