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mandal24
03-12-2012, 03:21 AM
I've never really given him much attention bc of his age and things I've read. But seriously after watching his 2010 games, I'm amazed. The guy seems to have it all.. Great footwork, pinpoint accurate, moves around the pocket well (his OL was amazing though), above average arm strength. So why is this guy not talked about more? Is it just because he's Aaron Rodgers age and not Andrew Luck's. That doesn't bother me so much. Watch this video from last year and tell me this guy's flaws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpkLIET5uvA

BradG
03-12-2012, 04:54 AM
No. John Beck v.2 written all over it. Wasnt his no.1 target at osu the highest rated reciever in the upcoming draft? Oh ya thats right, your suggesting we trade back and get him in the 20s of the first round? teams with picks in 20s are ones with good records because they have good qbs... Why would they want a almost 30 year old rookie quarterback? Might as well wait til the second round, theres too many qbs rated ahead of him in this draft plus Flynn, Manning, etc..

jim1
03-12-2012, 06:34 AM
No. John Beck v.2 written all over it. Wasnt his no.1 target at osu the highest rated reciever in the upcoming draft? Oh ya thats right, your suggesting we trade back and get him in the 20s of the first round? teams with picks in 20s are ones with good records because they have good qbs... Why would they want a almost 30 year old rookie quarterback? Might as well wait til the second round, theres too many qbs rated ahead of him in this draft plus Flynn, Manning, etc..

-----------

MRojas4
03-12-2012, 07:26 AM
Rather trade back a few sports (possibly the eagles) and take Tannehill.

I think we lucked out good on coaches.

Who else knows if Flynn is the real deal but his old coach Philbin?

Who else knows if Tannehill is the real deal but his old coach Sherms?

TedSlimmJr
03-12-2012, 12:38 PM
You really have to study Weeden's games against UL-Lafayette, Iowa St., and Texas to get an understanding of his weaknesses and tendancies.

ckparrothead
03-12-2012, 01:35 PM
I've never really given him much attention bc of his age and things I've read. But seriously after watching his 2010 games, I'm amazed. The guy seems to have it all.. Great footwork, pinpoint accurate, moves around the pocket well (his OL was amazing though), above average arm strength. So why is this guy not talked about more? Is it just because he's Aaron Rodgers age and not Andrew Luck's. That doesn't bother me so much. Watch this video from last year and tell me this guy's flaws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpkLIET5uvA

After all this time my video from over a year ago is still the most popular one for Brandon, lol.

ckparrothead
03-12-2012, 01:36 PM
You really have to study Weeden's games against UL-Lafayette, Iowa St., and Texas to get an understanding of his weaknesses and tendancies.

I would add Missouri to that list.

hooshoops
03-12-2012, 04:02 PM
i only got to see a bit of his pro day video and sure enough there he was throwing behind blackmon on a shallow crossing route like i've seen evidence of all season on slants crosses etc...i'd like to see better ball placement on some things but anyways i do think he's the right play at the top of the 2nd round if we don't get a qb in free agency and either miss or pass on tannehill prior...

mandal24
03-12-2012, 04:11 PM
You really have to study Weeden's games against UL-Lafayette, Iowa St., and Texas to get an understanding of his weaknesses and tendancies.

care to elaborate...?

Elliott 1
03-12-2012, 04:30 PM
Cleveland will almost certainly draft him with their #22 pick in the 1st round if they don't acquire Flynn or draft Tannehill with their #4 pick. I really really hope they acquire Flynn and the Seahawks draft Tannehill.

Then, as long as KC doesn't shock us, he should still be there in the 2nd round.

jim1
03-12-2012, 04:51 PM
Cleveland will almost certainly draft him with their #22 pick in the 1st round if they don't acquire Flynn or draft Tannehill with their #4 pick. I really really hope they acquire Flynn and the Seahawks draft Tannehill.

Then, as long as KC doesn't shock us, he should still be there in the 2nd round.

Buffalo lurks in my mind as well- I almost wish we lost the damn coin toss.

ckparrothead
03-12-2012, 05:33 PM
Don't forget Denver. They eyed Brandon like a hawk at his Pro Day. We have no idea who is getting Peyton Manning yet, especially now that the Titans have a visit and the Texans are making inquiries. The Broncos pick #25 overall.

Bottom line to me is, I don't care if he only plays 7 or 8 years. There's no player I can think of that presents more value to the Dolphins at the #8 overall pick.

I love Luke Kuechly. Love him. I think he'll be a fixture on the defense for 10 years. But you can lose a lot of games with Luke Kuechly at MLB that you wouldn't lose with Brandon Weeden at quarterback.

I hate how obsessed with valuation everyone is when it comes to Draft. It matters whether you get the right guy. If you get the right guy nobody gives two ****s where you got him. That's the BILL WALSH way of drafting, and that's what I believe in. I can argue valuation with the valuation guys all you want because, in the end I think even if that's your language, Brandon Weeden fits the valuation. But I'd rather do it the Bill Walsh way. Is he the right guy? He's the right guy. Then **** the valuation. Get him.

Awsi Dooger
03-13-2012, 02:11 AM
I hate how obsessed with valuation everyone is when it comes to Draft. It matters whether you get the right guy. If you get the right guy nobody gives two ****s where you got him. That's the BILL WALSH way of drafting, and that's what I believe in. I can argue valuation with the valuation guys all you want because, in the end I think even if that's your language, Brandon Weeden fits the valuation. But I'd rather do it the Bill Walsh way. Is he the right guy? He's the right guy. Then **** the valuation. Get him.

I agree with that. There was a guy named Stephen Nover in Las Vegas who wrote for the Review Journal and used to appear on draft preview radio shows alongside me in the '90s. He was a value-only type, which is not atypical for people with a Las Vegas background. They can't separate the draft from realities of sports betting, where you have a chance to beat the price multiple times every day and grind out a profit.

Nover emphasized during one show, "In the draft it's not who you get but where you get him." I literally laughed and told him he was out of his mind. It led to awkwardness and an ongoing feud. But I'm convinced I was correct. If you give me 7 bets per year I want the right side, not the best point spread. That's what NFL general managers face.

Nover left the Review Journal and became a tout, BTW.

Chubby
03-13-2012, 07:55 AM
Don't forget Denver. They eyed Brandon like a hawk at his Pro Day. We have no idea who is getting Peyton Manning yet, especially now that the Titans have a visit and the Texans are making inquiries. The Broncos pick #25 overall.

Bottom line to me is, I don't care if he only plays 7 or 8 years. There's no player I can think of that presents more value to the Dolphins at the #8 overall pick.

I love Luke Kuechly. Love him. I think he'll be a fixture on the defense for 10 years. But you can lose a lot of games with Luke Kuechly at MLB that you wouldn't lose with Brandon Weeden at quarterback.

I hate how obsessed with valuation everyone is when it comes to Draft. It matters whether you get the right guy. If you get the right guy nobody gives two ****s where you got him. That's the BILL WALSH way of drafting, and that's what I believe in. I can argue valuation with the valuation guys all you want because, in the end I think even if that's your language, Brandon Weeden fits the valuation. But I'd rather do it the Bill Walsh way. Is he the right guy? He's the right guy. Then **** the valuation. Get him.
I think Valuation holds true when deciding between most other positions example G vs OLB but when it comes to QB its all about Conviction.Find a guy, Fall In love & Go get your guy. Whether its at your pick or you have to move up. No such thing as overpaying or overrdafting for a franchise QB. Go ask Washington.
Chubbs

ckparrothead
03-13-2012, 10:48 AM
I agree with that. There was a guy named Stephen Nover in Las Vegas who wrote for the Review Journal and used to appear on draft preview radio shows alongside me in the '90s. He was a value-only type, which is not atypical for people with a Las Vegas background. They can't separate the draft from realities of sports betting, where you have a chance to beat the price multiple times every day and grind out a profit.

Nover emphasized during one show, "In the draft it's not who you get but where you get him." I literally laughed and told him he was out of his mind. It led to awkwardness and an ongoing feud. But I'm convinced I was correct. If you give me 7 bets per year I want the right side, not the best point spread. That's what NFL general managers face.

Nover left the Review Journal and became a tout, BTW.

Yeah that statement is just nuts, to me. I'm an equities analyst. I can talk valuation in circles around people all day, and indeed I have. I've made a detailed point-for-point logical argument for the valuation of Weeden at #8 overall. That's fine. But that's not how I'd like to do things. If that's what people buy, then I can sell it. But the bottom line is, if I am a QB-starved team then I'm not going to get MORE impact from any other guy I could draft at #8 overall than I would Brandon Weeden. The key is whether I'm a QB-starved team or not. I think many people like Matt Moore and think we're not really a QB-starved team, just like last year with Chad Henne many argued with me that the Dolphins are not. I disagree with those people.

Mathematically speaking there's no basis for that statement about it not being who you take but where you take them. Talent variance in draft picks is WIDE...especially at that position. So if you're talking about such wide variances with such low visibility, then almost by definition it's not where you take the guy but who you take. That's just following the math. If you hit on the right guy then he's probably going to be worth multiples of what you paid. If you hit the wrong guy then he's going to be worth a fraction of what you paid. I guess if your old colleague truly believes the Draft to be a crap shoot and that at the end of the evaluation process there's one magical theoretical list of rankings of prospects that every team has in hand, and talent evaluators are picking from this list with perfect percentages lined up like menu items at a restaurant...then yeah, maybe you could see his argument. Of course, that's ridiculous though.

TedSlimmJr
03-13-2012, 12:13 PM
care to elaborate...?


Those were the only 3 legitimate defenses that Weeden faced, and in those 3 games he threw 6 interceptions. It's no coincidence in my opinion that when I see Weeden struggle the most.... is against SEC style defenses that put pressure on him and play tight bump-and-run man coverage on his receivers.

Texas' defensive coordinator is Manny Diaz, who is a former SEC defensive coordinator (Mississippi St.) and he's one of the best in the business. Ironically, Weeden didn't throw any INT's against Texas, but he should've thrown at least 5 picks in that game. A couple of them were jump balls where the DB came down with it, but the receiver pushed him out of bounds before he could land inbounds with the football. About 3 or 4 others were passes that sailed high or were inaccurate to receivers across the middle that hit Longhorn DB's in the hands that were flat out dropped. Diaz runs a very complex Fire Zone blitz scheme that puts a lot of pressure on the quarterback. They hit Weeden a lot in that game and he began to feel it.... wanting to just get rid of the football quickly, which resulted in throwing several passes into the dirt, or very erratic passes. Weeden already struggles with ball placement at times, and this tends to get exacerbated when you put pressure on him. His accuracy and poise drops off substantially when he's faced with that type of pressure. He was confused by Diaz's blitzes at times and would throw to the wrong side.

Against Iowa St., Weeden faced another former SEC defensive coordinator in Wally Burnham. They put pressure on Weeden all game long and forced him to move him to get off his mark and move his feet....forcing his accuracy to suffer and his decision making to be erratic. It highlighted his tendancy to want to force throws into coverage to avoid a sack.

Against UL-Lafeyette, Weeden again faced a coach who is SEC oriented in the way he coaches defense (Greg Stewart). Coach Stewart is a native of my hometown in north Alabama and I know him personally from attending coaching clinics.... he was the defensive coordinator at Jacksonville St. where my son is currently enrolled. He's a big reason why Jacksonville St. was able to upset Ole Miss in Oxford in 2010, and almost upset a ranked Georgia Tech team and Florida St. the year before. Dwight Bentley picked off Weeden twice including returning one for a touchdown. Weeden forced another ill advised throw into coverage that Jemarlous Moten picked off and returned for a touchdown. These games are where you see his tendancies and his flaws.

Not to mention the Senior Bowl where he threw 2 more INT's in only 9 attempts.



Just to be clear, Weeden's tendancies are to force throws into coverage because he trusts his arm too much. His arm causes his decision making to be faulty at times. Weeden's confidence in his arm is one of his biggest advantages, as well as one of his biggest disadvantages. He can't get away with it as much when he's not playing against inept Big-12 defenses. His ball placement is scattershot at times because he throws with all arm and no trunk rotation. It's a result of not stepping into his throws.
One of his biggest weaknesses is dealing with pressure. He didn't deal with a lot of pressure, but when he did, his tendancy to drift backwards and throw off his backfoot is apparent.

Big-12 quarterbacks tend not to deal with pressure and being hit very well. They don't see much of it in that conference. I don't know of any quarterbacks that like to be hit or deal with pressure, but I think SEC quarterbacks are more conditioned to deal with it. The beating that Tyler Wilson took against Alabama back in September was one of the worst I've seen.... right there with the one Brett Favre took against the Saints in the NFC Championship Game a few years ago. Wilson never wilted, and his mechanics never faltered. He continued to hang in the pocket and battle, maintained his eye level and continued to step into his throws.


Weeden is one of the top 5 QB's in this draft, however, I wouldn't take him in the top 10 even if he was 22 years old. I've always said that the 50-75 range is where I'd take him. If a team decided to take him at the top of the 2nd round or so, I don't think it's a big deal. It's a good spot for him. There's no question he can spin the football, and I like his footwork when he's not rattled. He throws the fade in the redzone as well as any QB in the NFL can. I question if he can deal with the pressure he's going to see in the NFL, and if his decision making will hold up.... not be a turnover machine.

phintim
03-13-2012, 12:29 PM
Yeah that statement is just nuts, to me. I'm an equities analyst. I can talk valuation in circles around people all day, and indeed I have. I've made a detailed point-for-point logical argument for the valuation of Weeden at #8 overall. That's fine. But that's not how I'd like to do things. If that's what people buy, then I can sell it. But the bottom line is, if I am a QB-starved team then I'm not going to get MORE impact from any other guy I could draft at #8 overall than I would Brandon Weeden. The key is whether I'm a QB-starved team or not. I think many people like Matt Moore and think we're not really a QB-starved team, just like last year with Chad Henne many argued with me that the Dolphins are not. I disagree with those people.

Mathematically speaking there's no basis for that statement about it not being who you take but where you take them. Talent variance in draft picks is WIDE...especially at that position. So if you're talking about such wide variances with such low visibility, then almost by definition it's not where you take the guy but who you take. That's just following the math. If you hit on the right guy then he's probably going to be worth multiples of what you paid. If you hit the wrong guy then he's going to be worth a fraction of what you paid. I guess if your old colleague truly believes the Draft to be a crap shoot and that at the end of the evaluation process there's one magical theoretical list of rankings of prospects that every team has in hand, and talent evaluators are picking from this list with perfect percentages lined up like menu items at a restaurant...then yeah, maybe you could see his argument. Of course, that's ridiculous though.


IMO we are not a QB starved team with Matt Moore but we are a pretty good team that needs a pretty good QB that will take us to the next level. If we a very good team Matt Moore could be serviceable enough but we are not there yet. IMO oppinion Ireland has made solid picks in the first rounds over the years which has been to our benefit in the long run but those picks he made as good as they might be are not going to reach their value unless we have that elite QB position filled. I am all about value picks and or trading back if possible if they are not there but in the position of QB I would agree that you make the exception at that position if you feel that you have the leader you need and then trade back if needed at the other positions.

TheWalrus
03-13-2012, 12:38 PM
Yeah that statement is just nuts, to me. I'm an equities analyst. I can talk valuation in circles around people all day, and indeed I have. I've made a detailed point-for-point logical argument for the valuation of Weeden at #8 overall. That's fine. But that's not how I'd like to do things. If that's what people buy, then I can sell it. But the bottom line is, if I am a QB-starved team then I'm not going to get MORE impact from any other guy I could draft at #8 overall than I would Brandon Weeden. The key is whether I'm a QB-starved team or not. I think many people like Matt Moore and think we're not really a QB-starved team, just like last year with Chad Henne many argued with me that the Dolphins are not. I disagree with those people.

Mathematically speaking there's no basis for that statement about it not being who you take but where you take them. Talent variance in draft picks is WIDE...especially at that position. So if you're talking about such wide variances with such low visibility, then almost by definition it's not where you take the guy but who you take. That's just following the math. If you hit on the right guy then he's probably going to be worth multiples of what you paid. If you hit the wrong guy then he's going to be worth a fraction of what you paid. I guess if your old colleague truly believes the Draft to be a crap shoot and that at the end of the evaluation process there's one magical theoretical list of rankings of prospects that every team has in hand, and talent evaluators are picking from this list with perfect percentages lined up like menu items at a restaurant...then yeah, maybe you could see his argument. Of course, that's ridiculous though.

When you hear GMs and other front office people say the best thing you can do in the draft is "trust the board," I suspect this is exactly what they're saying, sadly.

Gonzo
03-13-2012, 01:02 PM
No. John Beck v.2 written all over it. Wasnt his no.1 target at osu the highest rated reciever in the upcoming draft? Oh ya thats right, your suggesting we trade back and get him in the 20s of the first round? teams with picks in 20s are ones with good records because they have good qbs... Why would they want a almost 30 year old rookie quarterback? Might as well wait til the second round, theres too many qbs rated ahead of him in this draft plus Flynn, Manning, etc..Outside of age, can you name one other similarity between the two?

jim1
03-13-2012, 01:27 PM
Those were the only 3 legitimate defenses that Weeden faced, and in those 3 games he threw 6 interceptions. It's no coincidence in my opinion that when I see Weeden struggle the most.... is against SEC style defenses that put pressure on him and play tight bump-and-run man coverage on his receivers.

Texas' defensive coordinator is Manny Diaz, who is a former SEC defensive coordinator (Mississippi St.) and he's one of the best in the business. Ironically, Weeden didn't throw any INT's against Texas, but he should've thrown at least 5 picks in that game. A couple of them were jump balls where the DB came down with it, but the receiver pushed him out of bounds before he could land inbounds with the football. About 3 or 4 others were passes that sailed high or were inaccurate to receivers across the middle that hit Longhorn DB's in the hands that were flat out dropped. Diaz runs a very complex Fire Zone blitz scheme that puts a lot of pressure on the quarterback. They hit Weeden a lot in that game and he began to feel it.... wanting to just get rid of the football quickly, which resulted in throwing several passes into the dirt, or very erratic passes. Weeden already struggles with ball placement at times, and this tends to get exacerbated when you put pressure on him. His accuracy and poise drops off substantially when he's faced with that type of pressure. He was confused by Diaz's blitzes at times and would throw to the wrong side.

Against Iowa St., Weeden faced another former SEC defensive coordinator in Wally Burnham. They put pressure on Weeden all game long and forced him to move him to get off his mark and move his feet....forcing his accuracy to suffer and his decision making to be erratic. It highlighted his tendancy to want to force throws into coverage to avoid a sack.

Against UL-Lafeyette, Weeden again faced a coach who is SEC oriented in the way he coaches defense (Greg Stewart). Coach Stewart is a native of my hometown in north Alabama and I know him personally from attending coaching clinics.... he was the defensive coordinator at Jacksonville St. where my son is currently enrolled. He's a big reason why Jacksonville St. was able to upset Ole Miss in Oxford in 2010, and almost upset a ranked Georgia Tech team and Florida St. the year before. Dwight Bentley picked off Weeden twice including returning one for a touchdown. Weeden forced another ill advised throw into coverage that Jemarlous Moten picked off and returned for a touchdown. These games are where you see his tendancies and his flaws.

Not to mention the Senior Bowl where he threw 2 more INT's in only 9 attempts.



Just to be clear, Weeden's tendancies are to force throws into coverage because he trusts his arm too much. His arm causes his decision making to be faulty at times. Weeden's confidence in his arm is one of his biggest advantages, as well as one of his biggest disadvantages. He can't get away with it as much when he's not playing against inept Big-12 defenses. His ball placement is scattershot at times because he throws with all arm and no trunk rotation. It's a result of not stepping into his throws.
One of his biggest weaknesses is dealing with pressure. He didn't deal with a lot of pressure, but when he did, his tendancy to drift backwards and throw off his backfoot is apparent.

Big-12 quarterbacks tend not to deal with pressure and being hit very well. They don't see much of it in that conference. I don't know of any quarterbacks that like to be hit or deal with pressure, but I think SEC quarterbacks are more conditioned to deal with it. The beating that Tyler Wilson took against Alabama back in September was one of the worst I've seen.... right there with the one Brett Favre took against the Saints in the NFC Championship Game a few years ago. Wilson never wilted, and his mechanics never faltered. He continued to hang in the pocket and battle, maintained his eye level and continued to step into his throws.


Weeden is one of the top 5 QB's in this draft, however, I wouldn't take him in the top 10 even if he was 22 years old. I've always said that the 50-75 range is where I'd take him. If a team decided to take him at the top of the 2nd round or so, I don't think it's a big deal. It's a good spot for him. There's no question he can spin the football, and I like his footwork when he's not rattled. He throws the fade in the redzone as well as any QB in the NFL can. I question if he can deal with the pressure he's going to see in the NFL, and if his decision making will hold up.... not be a turnover machine.

You might want to mention as per Weeden and the Iowa St. game that, along with the three picks, he threw 3 TDs and was 42/58 for 476 yards.

Elliott 1
03-13-2012, 03:34 PM
Don't forget Denver. They eyed Brandon like a hawk at his Pro Day. We have no idea who is getting Peyton Manning yet, especially now that the Titans have a visit and the Texans are making inquiries. The Broncos pick #25 overall.

Bottom line to me is, I don't care if he only plays 7 or 8 years. There's no player I can think of that presents more value to the Dolphins at the #8 overall pick.

I love Luke Kuechly. Love him. I think he'll be a fixture on the defense for 10 years. But you can lose a lot of games with Luke Kuechly at MLB that you wouldn't lose with Brandon Weeden at quarterback.

I hate how obsessed with valuation everyone is when it comes to Draft. It matters whether you get the right guy. If you get the right guy nobody gives two ****s where you got him. That's the BILL WALSH way of drafting, and that's what I believe in. I can argue valuation with the valuation guys all you want because, in the end I think even if that's your language, Brandon Weeden fits the valuation. But I'd rather do it the Bill Walsh way. Is he the right guy? He's the right guy. Then **** the valuation. Get him.

One thing is for sure, nobody can say this is a boring off season. There has already been enough drama for an entire off season and FA hasn't even started yet.

I am usually very confident about what I would like to see the Dolphins do by this time, but this season, I'm only sure about a few things that I definitely don't want them to do.

With only roughly 10 mil to play with in cap and IMO five areas that need significant improvement it's hard to say draft Weeden in the 1st to make sure we get him, however, the point about Kuechly is correct. The right QB will surely win you more games than a HOF MLB, but if I could have both and steal a couple pass rushers later in the draft, alas, the sin of over aggressiveness, or the sin of being overly conservative.............______.

If he does make it past the Browns #22 I would look to make a deal with the Colts or Rams for a trade up, giving up picks in 2013. I would be comfortable getting him with one of the top two picks in the 2nd.

TedSlimmJr
03-13-2012, 08:09 PM
You might want to mention as per Weeden and the Iowa St. game that, along with the three picks, he threw 3 TDs and was 42/58 for 476 yards.


His statistics aren't relevant to a discussion where someone asked what Weeden's flaws and tendancies are, or what he needs to improve on.

Roman529
03-14-2012, 02:09 AM
If we lose out on Manning and Flynn, I would start Matt Moore, and draft Brock Osweiler in Round 2. I would trade down to obtain and extra second rounder and use that extra pick to get him. Osweiler can improve his footwork and stance when throwing, and I think he can improve his delivery.

He has a little bit of a hitch in his throwing motion, kind of like Phillip Rivers, but Osweiler spots his target and has a quick release. You also don't see him get happy feet , but he will run if his receivers aren't open. Most tall QB's don't have his speed/mobility. He only started one year at QB at ASU, but he is a good athlete and played high school basketball. Take a look.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5BpADbjn84

insom187
03-14-2012, 03:34 AM
Osweiler is an intriguing prospect. I see what you mean about his throwing motion but he can get away with it because he's so damn tall lol. I have to admit though I'm nervous about a guy that size running around, just that much more leg to get ripped up when a corner goes low on him. When is his Pro Day?

gregorygrant83
03-14-2012, 04:18 AM
I tend to knock Weeden's age, but to be fair Kurt Warner was 27 when he made it to the NFL and 28 when he finally got to play.

Geordie
03-15-2012, 01:13 PM
When I first saw people like CK suggesting that we should pick up Weeden with our 8th pick, I thought that that was crazy talk. I'm still not completely sold on it but with the way FA has started, I'm not now in the camp of totally against this. We need to solve the QB issue first and foremost then fill our needs at WR and RT, if we can solve RT through FA then that makes things easier. We can't run the risk of Weeden being there in round 2, there are still too many teams that need to upgrade too to be confident of him being there.

hooshoops
03-15-2012, 02:33 PM
I tend to knock Weeden's age, but to be fair Kurt Warner was 27 when he made it to the NFL and 28 when he finally got to play.

and clue me in on what round kurt warner was drafted in at 27???

ckparrothead
03-15-2012, 02:47 PM
and clue me in on what round kurt warner was drafted in at 27???

The Hall of Fame round.

ckparrothead
03-15-2012, 02:50 PM
Weeden is one of the top 5 QB's in this draft, however, I wouldn't take him in the top 10 even if he was 22 years old. I've always said that the 50-75 range is where I'd take him.

Is it the Senior Bowl that changed your mind on him? He went from a guy that you said is easily in the same group as Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley to being a guy you wouldn't touch in the top 10 regardless of age, and wouldn't take until the 50 to 75 range.

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?308490-If-we-cant-get-Luck......Barkley-or-Jones&p=1064080487&highlight=boxer#post1064080487


Weeden is comfortably in Barkley and Andrew Luck's class as a passer of the football. He has the footwork of a welterweight boxer in the pocket.... his feet are incredibly tied in to what his eyes are seeing and what his arm needs to do. There's not a single route or pattern that Weeden doesn't throw extremely well.

It's just his age that's going to drag him down.

mrbunglez
03-15-2012, 05:13 PM
Whys anyone even giving this guy any thought?? If he was such a special player he'd be going before Tannehill regardless of age. If the browns and seahawks are in win now mode you think he'd be high up on there list before Tannehill. Sorry but I don't see any reason to pick this guy up anywhere.

Elliott 1
03-15-2012, 06:13 PM
Whys anyone even giving this guy any thought?? If he was such a special player he'd be going before Tannehill regardless of age. If the browns and seahawks are in win now mode you think he'd be high up on there list before Tannehill. Sorry but I don't see any reason to pick this guy up anywhere.

If you don't see any reason to pick Weeden you clearly haven't looked, because there are a ton of reasons to draft him in the top 10; but the age issue is very real and very powerful against him.

Elliott 1
03-15-2012, 06:17 PM
If we lose out on Manning and Flynn, I would start Matt Moore, and draft Brock Osweiler in Round 2. I would trade down to obtain and extra second rounder and use that extra pick to get him. Osweiler can improve his footwork and stance when throwing, and I think he can improve his delivery.

He has a little bit of a hitch in his throwing motion, kind of like Phillip Rivers, but Osweiler spots his target and has a quick release. You also don't see him get happy feet , but he will run if his receivers aren't open. Most tall QB's don't have his speed/mobility. He only started one year at QB at ASU, but he is a good athlete and played high school basketball. Take a look.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5BpADbjn84

Take it from an Phoenician and an avid Sun Devil fan. Brock ain't ready and he may never be ready. Boom or bust and if he ever did boom, it would be years from now.

This guy is in the 6th-7th range IMO. Osweiler in the 2nd round would be nuts.

daniel3
03-15-2012, 08:23 PM
I wouldn't mind him if we pickup Flynn. Have the 3 veterans compete for a starting gig.

TedSlimmJr
03-15-2012, 08:27 PM
Is it the Senior Bowl that changed your mind on him? He went from a guy that you said is easily in the same group as Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley to being a guy you wouldn't touch in the top 10 regardless of age, and wouldn't take until the 50 to 75 range.

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?308490-If-we-cant-get-Luck......Barkley-or-Jones&p=1064080487&highlight=boxer#post1064080487



More film work and digging deeper into his weaknesses, combined with the Senior Bowl. Weeden hadn't even played Iowa St. yet when I made that post, nor had I really combed over his game against Texas only 2 weeks prior, or the UL-Lafeyette game.

Weeden is on their level as a "passer"... or in terms of pure ability to throw the football from point A to point B, and spin it cleanly. However, being on Andrew Luck or Matt Barkley's level as a quarterback and decision maker is a different assessment all together.

His footwork is great when he's allowed to sit back there in the shotgun and face no pressure. He has the feet of a welterweight boxer when he's in rhythm. I specifically said that I like his footwork when he's not rattled.

Someone asked what Weeden's weaknesses are. I pointed out what I feel like his weaknesses are. I think it's pretty clear that his issues would never be brought up by his most staunch jock sniffers. Either that or he's a perfect prospect with no flaws.

I've never wavered off my initial line of thinking of his best value being in the 50-75 range, but that I would begin considering him with my 2nd round pick if I was Miami and needed a quarterback.

hooshoops
03-16-2012, 05:52 PM
The Hall of Fame round.

ha ha...

DMAS
03-16-2012, 06:21 PM
I'm not a college footbal fan and I have neither the time nor inclination to delve into the arcane world of evaluating college football players. What I mainly do is now and then check out a youtube video of a guy if he sounds interesting when I read about him. 99% of the time I'm like ok he looks decent whatever. Every once in a while though you look at a guy on video and say yeah this guy has it. I don't care what anybody says, Weedon can throw the rock...he is a natural. When I look at just the highlight reels I'm thinking this guy blows Luck away as far as pure passing is concerned. I always look at the footwork of a QB first. All of the great QB's seem to have great footwork and it seems to just smooth everything out and set up a player to make a good move. Weedens footwork just seems so natural, and it flows to me...reminds me of Marino. Now when you put everything in the context of a game, and ask can this guy be a great QB at the next level...I have no clue. But I'm here to tell you that that this cat is the best pure passer I have seen in a LONG time. Don't know if he will be a great QB but he sure can throw better than the rest. I'd take him on that alone. If it was me I'd draft Kuelchy at 8 because that guy gives me the same feeling...he seems to be just so productive and a natural and to me there is little doubt his game will transfer to the next level. But I'd draft Weeden next if I could, even move up if I have to. It might be that guys that are too involved in evaluating and sometimes loose sight of the most basic of parameters...often known as the sight test...does the guy look like he can play.

jim1
03-16-2012, 07:41 PM
I'm not a college footbal fan and I have neither the time nor inclination to delve into the arcane world of evaluating college football players. What I mainly do is now and then check out a youtube video of a guy if he sounds interesting when I read about him. 99% of the time I'm like ok he looks decent whatever. Every once in a while though you look at a guy on video and say yeah this guy has it. I don't care what anybody says, Weedon can throw the rock...he is a natural. When I look at just the highlight reels I'm thinking this guy blows Luck away as far as pure passing is concerned. I always look at the footwork of a QB first. All of the great QB's seem to have great footwork and it seems to just smooth everything out and set up a player to make a good move. Weedens footwork just seems so natural, and it flows to me...reminds me of Marino. Now when you put everything in the context of a game, and ask can this guy be a great QB at the next level...I have no clue. But I'm here to tell you that that this cat is the best pure passer I have seen in a LONG time. Don't know if he will be a great QB but he sure can throw better than the rest. I'd take him on that alone. If it was me I'd draft Kuelchy at 8 because that guy gives me the same feeling...he seems to be just so productive and a natural and to me there is little doubt his game will transfer to the next level. But I'd draft Weeden next if I could, even move up if I have to. It might be that guys that are too involved in evaluating and sometimes loose sight of the most basic of parameters...often known as the sight test...does the guy look like he can play.

Thank you, great post- summed it up beautifully.