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View Full Version : Would you draft a 30 year old QB?



LikeUntoGod
03-16-2012, 05:13 PM
I'm starting to see "draft Weedon" talk here now. He turned 29 on October 14th of last year.

Really? :err:

Harry_Bagpipe
03-16-2012, 05:14 PM
I don't think he's 29

ckparrothead
03-16-2012, 05:20 PM
Do people really think the Giants are going to beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl? You're dreaming!

...wait...am I a little late to the party?

Kdawg954
03-16-2012, 05:21 PM
He'll turn 30 halfway into his 2nd season in the NFL. Let's not push his age any further than what it is.

And if the kid can ball, you would be silly to let something like age get in the way of getting a good QB. Obviously at #8 that is crazy, but in the 2nd round I wouldn't have a problem with it.

andyahs
03-16-2012, 05:22 PM
Yes of course. Get 8 good years out of him.

ckparrothead
03-16-2012, 05:27 PM
He's 28 years old by the way and he'll be 28 years old for about half the 2012 season.

allsilverdreams
03-16-2012, 05:31 PM
yes i would for sure in the 7th round

hooshoops
03-16-2012, 05:33 PM
at #8 it is crazy...2nd round i got no issue with it...

Vaark
03-16-2012, 05:35 PM
Hey within a year or so, he could be marginally the same age with about the same amount of time as a starter as were both Kurt Warner and Jake DelHomme (I don't have my notes, but I remember Weeden would actually be about 6 mos younger than one of them) when they took their teams to the Superbowl. Doesn't sound too shabby to me :idk:

JC
03-16-2012, 05:36 PM
I'm beginning to grow more and more fond of Weeden. I think that he is a guy that could excel in a west coast style of offense.

Let's try to define west coast for a moment, because there seem to be a lot of differing viewpoints of it. From my understanding, the west coast offense utilizes receivers in space, allowing receivers to gain yards after the catch. It is also a system that thrives when the ball is spread evenly between the offensive weapons.

From my understanding of it, Weeden would be a pretty darn good fit in that kind of system, especially if he is able to pick it up quickly. It wouldn't be too much different than some of the plays he ran in college.

ROADRUNNER
03-16-2012, 05:46 PM
Ye in the 4th round.............

spiral
03-16-2012, 05:46 PM
didn't we already try that in the form of John Beck?

NBP81
03-16-2012, 05:47 PM
I'd sure take Weeden over Flynn...

circumstances
03-16-2012, 05:47 PM
i would have no problem using the 3rd we got from the bears!

Vaark
03-16-2012, 05:48 PM
I'd sure take Weeden over Flynn...

It might come to that.

Oh and for anyone who thinks he's gonna make it past the first round, I don't think so.

Myles Fynch
03-16-2012, 05:50 PM
It might come to that.

Oh and for anyone who thinks he's gonna make it past the first round, I don't think so.


I agree with that. If he's a QB and he doesn't flat out suck, he'll go higher than expected. There aren't enough good ones.

DevilInPgh
03-16-2012, 05:52 PM
Hey within a year or so, he could be marginally the same age with about the same amount of time as a starter as were both Kurt Warner and Jake DelHomme (I don't have my notes, but I remember Weeden would actually be about 6 mos younger than one of them) when they took their teams to the Superbowl. Doesn't sound too shabby to me :idk:

And Mr. "I talk about things I know nothing about" strikes again. Of course he doesn't get that Delhomme was a backup in New Orleans before becoming a starter in Carolina (hey, doesn't that have a familiar ring to it?) and Warner already had a few years of semi-pro experience in the Arena League, quite a different speed of game from the college game and probably more comparable to the NFL than to college. And you wonder why I think of you as one of Mr. Ross's sockpuppets.

Ikema
03-16-2012, 06:04 PM
You should be asking, "can he play effective QB? If yes, I would draft him in his appropriate slot.

Vaark
03-16-2012, 06:04 PM
And Mr. "I talk about things I know nothing about" strikes again. Of course he doesn't get that Delhomme was a backup in New Orleans before becoming a starter in Carolina (hey, doesn't that have a familiar ring to it?) and Warner already had a few years of semi-pro experience in the Arena League, quite a different speed of game from the college game and probably more comparable to the NFL than to college. And you wonder why I think of you as one of Mr. Ross's sockpuppets.

Ah, my stalker is back. (Ain't love grand?)

Warner was bagging groceries and played in 1 game in the actual NFL before he fell into the starting job and went 13-3.. and Delhomme played in 6 games in 1999 and 2002 before he went 10-5 as a starter in 2003. Oh and Rex, how's your "chicken" who in a past personal attack you suggest I "**** doing"?

DphinBillkiller
03-16-2012, 06:09 PM
Yes I would draft one if he met the criteria. What one might lack in youth can be made up with good decision making and understanding of the game. Different defenses and attacking with various offensive schemes.

DevilInPgh
03-16-2012, 06:13 PM
Ah, my stalker is back. (Ain't love grand?)

Warner was bagging groceries and played in 1 game in the actual NFL before he fell into the starting job and went 13-3..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Warner

"With no NFL teams willing to give him a chance, Warner turned to the Arena Football League in 1995, and signed with the Iowa Barnstormers. Warner was named to the AFL's First-team All-Arena in both 1996 and 1997 after he led the Barnstormers to Arena Bowl appearances in both seasons. Warner's performance was so impressive that he would be named twelfth out of the 20 Best Arena Football Players of all time."


and Delhomme played in 6 games in 1999 and 2002 before he went 10-5 as a starter in 2003.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Delhomme

"Following his success in Europe, he was brought back to New Orleans as the full-time third-string quarterback. In his first NFL start against the Dallas Cowboys, he threw two touchdowns en route to a Saints victory, the team's third.[3]
Delhomme continued to see limited playing time the following three seasons, as he was the backup to Aaron Brooks and Jeff Blake. He managed to lead all NFC quarterbacks in overall passer rating during the 2001 and 2002 preseasons.[3] His success, coupled with the team's struggles, led fans to chant "We Want Jake, We Want Jake"."


Oh and Rex, how's your "chicken" who in a past personal attack you suggest I "**** doing"?

I wouldn't know, Mr. Ross, I'm more of a Mike Tomlin. Like I said, keep f**king that chicken.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk3zPo4r9oU

EricCartman
03-16-2012, 06:15 PM
about him as a player, which are his skills, what kind of cieling he has?

I ask, because I always heard about the "age factor", but IF all the other elements (I think: pocket presence; arm; intangibles) are there..... why not take the risk, maybe trading down (I know it is very easy to say "trade down" and difficult to do)...


and about the Beck-comparison....there were some doubt about his arms strenght IIRC? maybe I am wrong


(sorry for my bad English)

Vaark
03-16-2012, 06:20 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Warner

"With no NFL teams willing to give him a chance, Warner turned to the Arena Football League in 1995, and signed with the Iowa Barnstormers. Warner was named to the AFL's First-team All-Arena in both 1996 and 1997 after he led the Barnstormers to Arena Bowl appearances in both seasons. Warner's performance was so impressive that he would be named twelfth out of the 20 Best Arena Football Players of all time."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Delhomme

"Following his success in Europe, he was brought back to New Orleans as the full-time third-string quarterback. In his first NFL start against the Dallas Cowboys, he threw two touchdowns en route to a Saints victory, the team's third.[3]
Delhomme continued to see limited playing time the following three seasons, as he was the backup to Aaron Brooks and Jeff Blake. He managed to lead all NFC quarterbacks in overall passer rating during the 2001 and 2002 preseasons.[3] His success, coupled with the team's struggles, led fans to chant "We Want Jake, We Want Jake"."



I wouldn't know, Mr. Ross, I'm more of a Mike Tomlin. Like I said, keep f**king that chicken.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk3zPo4r9oU

so you're saying that an advanced age QB needs a few years of floating around without any meaningful NFL experience in order to step in and be effective, but young guys like Stafford, Bradford, Flacco, Ryan and even Sanchez can start right away? yeah right!

As my official stalker, you should be aware that as a Play2Winner, I was against fellating for advantage or bending over to submit to the whims of other teams. Not that there's anything wrong with that.. but maybe you should look elsewhere since I don't swing that way :idk:

As far as ****ing your chicken or whatever words of endearment you use in privacy, I really never thought to ask your permission LOL

fishbanger
03-16-2012, 06:25 PM
If Flynn is signed dont believe they will draft a QB in the first 4 rounds.

DevilInPgh
03-16-2012, 06:29 PM
so you're saying that an advanced age QB needs a few years of floating around without any meaningful NFL experience in order to step in and be effective, but young guys like Stafford, Bradford, Flacco, Ryan and even Sanchez can start right away? yeah right!

You are clearly putting words in my mouth, Mr. Ross. You made the argument that if "zero-experience" Delhomme and Warner can make it, then so can Weeden out the gate. I demolished that argument by saying that Delhomme and Warner indeed had post-college experience. Some young guys can come out the gate on fire (see Big Ben, Eli, Flacco, Dalton), some need seasoning either on the bench or post-college (Brees, Delhomme (bench and NFL Europe), Warner (Arena League and NFL Europe)), and some will blow, even if seasoned on the bench for a season (see your lover Chad Henne, who, contrary to YOUR opinion, was NOT immediately thrown into the fire, but allowed to season for a season on the bench). An advanced-age QB I would put on the level of a Chad Henne at the very least, but you don't have the time to develop him on the bench, so it's either sink-or-swim. And most of the time, advanced-age QBs in college happen to be feasting on boys, but begin to blow chunks once exposed to real men in the NFL (see Weinke, Beck).


As my official stalker, you should be aware that as a Play2Winner, I was against fellating for advantage or bending over to submit to the whims of other teams. Not that there's anything wrong with that.. but maybe you should look elsewhere since I don't swing that way :idk:

As far as ****ing your chicken or whatever words of endearment you use in privacy, I really never thought to ask your permission

And you wonder why the Dolphins front-office management is the joke of the league, worse than even the Bungles ever were. When you have idiots like this in the front office, it really makes you wonder if maybe a trained monkey would be a better general manager.

DevilInPgh
03-16-2012, 06:33 PM
And one more thing, Mr. Ross. If you really think I'm stalking you, why don't you call the cops? Is it because they'll laugh at you?

Awsi Dooger
03-16-2012, 06:34 PM
I would not, at least not high or enthusiastically, and not without exhausting every other option.

To me, every pick is not an isolated guy but a sample in the big picture. I don't care about spinning the ball or scrutinizing every play as much as evaluating how likely it is that someone can deviate from the norm to such extreme degree and overcome it. I think in the draft forum I wrote that one of the best pianists in the world doesn't spend 6 or 8 years in their prime thinking they are a tuba player, something like that. It applies to Weeden here, and similarly I've been skeptical about Drew Henson and John Beck and others.

Of course, my sports betting background lends itself to a focus on the 55-60% path. Very possible Weeden is among the 40%. IMO, it's extremely dangerous to rely on the exception too often, and at such a vital position. Exceptions bite.

My belief is everything tends to drift back to the beginning. Today I knew Florida -2 was an astute investment against Virginia. Florida was generally rated 7th to 9th in preseason power ratings while Virginia was in the 50 to 75 range. Apparently something happened in the intervening 5 months that screwed up the perception to such extreme that Florida was only a 2 point favorite today. Injuries, or bad dribbles. I really don't care. Weeden was out of the game for years and prior to the season he wasn't rated anywhere close to where some teams are threatening to pick him. IMO, that's another case of bad dribbles. I don't want any part of it.

Andrew Luck was the gem, a guy who would have been picked first last year and so terrific this season that fans were desperate to nitpick any aspect of his game. I'll never understand how we brainstormed to bypass an investment like that, especially after such a promising opening month.

dlockz
03-16-2012, 06:50 PM
I have two answers yes in the 4th round or below
no in any round previous to these esp 1st and 2nd.

Drafting a qb is already such a hit and miss proposition but to then draft a qb who will be 29 before week 6 of the nfl season adds way too much risk as a top draft pick investment.
I will use Vaarks example of Warner and Delhomme to talk about the lack of risk in either of those guys. We are a 6-10 team we cannot afford to throw away draft picks on impractical investments. You basically have no devlopment time with Weeden and if he is not ready from day one you already have a bad investment. Also this theory that you can get 8 years out of Weeden is quite flawed since very few qb's are still good up to age 38. This has little to do with amount of football played and more to do with effects of age.
Weeden is a solid looking prospect but hardly looks cant miss and to me doesnt stannd head and shoulders above the tiers that are below Griffin and Luck. With all of the mistakes we have drafted at qb why would we draft a guy who has no time to develop.

JC
03-16-2012, 08:03 PM
And you wonder why the Dolphins front-office management is the joke of the league, worse than even the Bungles ever were. When you have idiots like this in the front office, it really makes you wonder if maybe a trained monkey would be a better general manager.

Damn man, you don't have a clue what goes on behind closed doors. This is the classic view of an armchair quarterback, using hind-sight to try to put others down.

Also, how do you know they are the joke of the league? Do you have regular conversations with people that are currently employed by the NFL that tell you these things? Or is this a tool to attempt to make your argument have a foundation, when it is clearly based on your preconceived notion that you are better than a group of individuals who have jobs with one of the biggest sports leagues in the entire world?

ROADRUNNER
03-16-2012, 08:16 PM
I'm starting to see "draft Weedon" talk here now. He turned 29 on October 14th of last year.

Really? :err:

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/03/cmonman-1.png

Valandui
03-16-2012, 08:25 PM
didn't we already try that in the form of John Beck?
Cowboys also tried it with Roger Staubach. In fact, he was out of football for years. Worked out pretty well.

JakeMcAwful
03-16-2012, 08:29 PM
Honestly, if the FO think that this is their guy (and there's plenty of tape to prove that he could be something special) then it's not crazy to take him at #8, and I wouldn't have a problem with it.

However I honestly don't think I could deal with this forum in the ensuing weeks and months if that did happened, because I'm 100% positive there'd be raucous uproar. So I'd be delighted with a trade down to the middle or back of the first round, and take him there just to avoid the infuriating backlash.

Elliott 1
03-16-2012, 08:33 PM
With no hesitation at all. Yes!

dlockz
03-16-2012, 10:46 PM
Cowboys also tried it with Roger Staubach. In fact, he was out of football for years. Worked out pretty well.

Number one and most important they invested very little in Staubach making him a 10th round pick number 2 Staubach was clearly the best qb in football when he was in college while Weeden is not

DevilInPgh
03-17-2012, 12:10 AM
Damn man, you don't have a clue what goes on behind closed doors. This is the classic view of an armchair quarterback, using hind-sight to try to put others down.

Also, how do you know they are the joke of the league? Do you have regular conversations with people that are currently employed by the NFL that tell you these things? Or is this a tool to attempt to make your argument have a foundation, when it is clearly based on your preconceived notion that you are better than a group of individuals who have jobs with one of the biggest sports leagues in the entire world?

I don't need to know what's happening behind closed doors, I have Vaark, AKA Mr. Ross!

JLRich13
03-17-2012, 12:21 AM
Im glad someone brought up Chris Weinke and John Beck.....pretty much sums up how I feel about Weeden.

dlockz
03-17-2012, 12:25 AM
Im glad someone brought up Chris Weinke and John Beck.....pretty much sums up how I feel about Weeden.

And Weinke was the best qb in collge football that year.

DevilInPgh
03-17-2012, 12:25 AM
Im glad someone brought up Chris Weinke and John Beck.....pretty much sums up how I feel about Weeden.

Too many people want to ignore them or push themselves into thinking that Weeden is the exception, not the rule. They're of the "fool me twice" variety.

Hurricane_Shula
03-17-2012, 01:03 AM
Cowboys also tried it with Roger Staubach. In fact, he was out of football for years. Worked out pretty well.It's a lot harder to play football now than it was then. Guys are bigger, faster, stronger now (because of improvements in weight training, dieting, nutrition programs, and simple population growth) and football strategies are much more complex now than then.

I want no part of Old Man Weeden.

Miami1
03-17-2012, 02:42 AM
No way in the top 2 rounds. Especially at a QB position where most of the time you sit for a year or two. Maybe with the extra 3rd they got from Chicago for the horrible Marshall trade. Anything higer than that, Ireland would need to be ran out of town.

Semedi
03-17-2012, 05:32 AM
Sure, I'd draft him in the 7th or 8th round. You'd be a friggin' lunatic to give up more than that for someone that's almost 30.

Valandui
03-17-2012, 08:55 AM
It's a lot harder to play football now than it was then. Guys are bigger, faster, stronger now (because of improvements in weight training, dieting, nutrition programs, and simple population growth) and football strategies are much more complex now than then.

I want no part of Old Man Weeden.
Football yes. QB, not necessarily.

LikeUntoGod
03-17-2012, 09:05 AM
Cowboys also tried it with Roger Staubach. In fact, he was out of football for years. Worked out pretty well.

I'm also getting Staubach and Weedon confused. :chuckle:

Not to mention that was a different time altogether.

Phin-Phan 66
03-17-2012, 09:29 AM
I would draft Weeden but...
8 is too high and he won't be there with our 2nd pick.

Hopefully we sign Flynn today and this thread won't matter.