PDA

View Full Version : Don't reach on QB this year - draft Russel Wilson



SammySmif
03-20-2012, 01:52 PM
I have watched Russel Wilson every year in college and this guy is incredibly impressive and built to run a west coast offense. His biggest knock against him is he is 5'11, but a WC offense does not need a super tall QB.

His pro day showcase was incredibly effective, and he completed 60-63 passes, blowing away real GMs who draft much better then we do like Green Bay's Ted Thompson.

The fins have a lot of needs and to reach on Tannehill is a mistake. Wilson can come in here and compete day 1 , and can run a WC offense. He is also extremely mobile and creates 1st downs with his legs. Furthermore, if he does not work out, it will not be a major issue since he is currently rated 10th best QB and the fins have an extra 3rd rounder to use on him.

The only 2 QBs I would take first round in this draft are Luck and RG3. After that, it is desperation to reach on a guy like Tannehill when Russel Wilson will be there in later rounds and could easily end up being better. the fins could get lucky and snag Blackmon (10% chance) or Richardson as their first pick instead, and worse case get an elite DE or OL..all better than taking a 2nd round pick QB way too early.

Just my opinion, but I watched Wilson crush people for years at NC state and then go to Wisconsin and do very well with an offense that is not nearly as well suited to him.

Mudder1310
03-20-2012, 02:04 PM
Wilson will be great, in the CFL. the WCO is all timing based but you have to get up over the line. There are no QBs that short. If that's how you want to go then you may as well take Kellen Moore, who has better size and more success.

SammySmif
03-20-2012, 02:05 PM
He is no shorter than Drew Brees no matter what the stats say.

Blake the great
03-20-2012, 02:07 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble but Russel Wilson isnt nothing but a Chase Daniels/troy smith back up QB in the NFL. I live in NC and my girlfriend goes to NC state, we went to quite a few football games 2 years ago and I wasnt very impressed with Wilson, especially at the VT game in raleigh, I was at that game and the wolfpack were up like 19-0 at one point and Wilson just kinda crumbled in that game. He's a game manager at best. I wasnt impressed with him, not much of an arm and he isnt very good at coming back from behind. Nothing special about him, just a solid smart and accurate QB, kinda like Chris Leak but with a slightly better arm.

SammySmif
03-20-2012, 02:07 PM
I saw him come back and games for NC State as well though. He did it against DEs for FSU that are now in the NFL.

Mudder1310
03-20-2012, 02:12 PM
We also watched Doug Flutie beat Miami at their peak, and that's a near direct comparison to Wilson. Great in the CFL, starts and fits of NFL success. So yeah, draft Flutie Jr.

SammySmif
03-20-2012, 02:24 PM
Yeah Flutie Jr...my god you have no idea what you just said.

fine, lets get tannehill and blow another pick..it is the Fins after all...horrible decisions are the norm.

Blake the great
03-20-2012, 02:26 PM
Wilson is the classic college QB model, not particularly what you look for in a NFL QB though, especially for a franchise QB

Blake the great
03-20-2012, 02:31 PM
Yeah Flutie Jr...my god you have no idea what you just said.

fine, lets get tannehill and blow another pick..it is the Fins after all...horrible decisions are the norm.

I think at this point WE HAVE to pick Tannehill with the first pick or weeden. I would love to trade down and get one of them but that is risky and we're already playin a risky game with our QB situation. If QB upgrade or finding a franchise QB is really our #1 priority this off season then we have to address the QB issue with the 1st pick, if it doesnt work out we can draft another QB down the road.

A DE or O-line man isnt going to make us contenders down the road, we're goina reach for a QB but we really have no choice and everyone is really expecting us to do so. Last year it was a shock that Locker and Ponder went so high, this year it'll be no surprise bc thats how bad our QB situation is and I think more people would be surprised if we didnt reach for a QB in round one.

SammySmif
03-20-2012, 02:32 PM
Yes but is Tannehill a 1st rounder? Maybe he is, but I am not seeing it.

I agree we need a franchise QB..we really really do. I just don't see us getting him in Tannehill.

Blake the great
03-20-2012, 02:36 PM
I dont really agree with it either but Sherman should know his real potential. But its not like Tannehill is just some crappy QB prospect, he definitely can be as good as Matt Ryan I believe and for what its worth Charles Casserly on NFL network said he's better than all the QB's prospects in last years draft (minus Cam Newton) and that he compares him to Joe Flacco and Josh Freeman type prospect and if they all three were in the same draft together, he would choose Tannehill over Flacco and Freeman.

Blake the great
03-20-2012, 02:46 PM
Yes but is Tannehill a 1st rounder? Maybe he is, but I am not seeing it.

I agree we need a franchise QB..we really really do. I just don't see us getting him in Tannehill.

Never know if we dont try. as we know, franchise QB's dont always fall into our laps. you gotta have a plan, not hope that we can get a better QB prospect next draft. thats kinda like throwing in the towel and its a dumb philosophy. We havent drafted a QB in the 1st round since 83 so i think its worth a shot, even if its a reach. If tannehill is available when we pick at #8 he's probably the best QB prospect that we were able to get in recent years, mostly because he's already familiar with Shermans system and that gives him and the fins a slight advantage

SammySmif
03-20-2012, 03:27 PM
I'd agree if we didn't just lose Marshall...there is a chance TRich and Blackmon fall as well. I mean would you not rather have them?

Who knows..now they say we may sign Tebow..so god knows what is going on anymore.

I like Wilson, because I figure Ireland could get canned this year and we could have a real GM drafting our QB next year..lol.

anyway , you could title this thread "dont reach..draft ____ in round 3 or later" and I'd be fine with it.

Mudder1310
03-20-2012, 06:18 PM
Look, if you're fishing for praise for Wilson fine, he's a great college qb. But you can't justify him as a viable draft option, maybe as a late flier or UDFA. I'm not saying Tannehill is the answer either. IMHO there are only 2 qb worth drafting earlier than the 3rd rd, we won't get a sniff of either one.

And if you don't like the Flutie comparison here's a modern one; he has the same game as Darron Thomas, only less physical tools. So if you're throwing a late pick at a guy how about one with solid measureables?

Fin Thirteen
03-20-2012, 07:13 PM
If Wilson was 6'4" people on here would be spilling their load over him.

Because he isn't he's a much higher risk, but I think he is absolutely worth a 4th or 5th rounder.

DKphin
03-20-2012, 08:39 PM
He is no shorter than Drew Brees no matter what the stats say.He is two inches shorter than Brees:rolleyes2:

MiamiDolfan85
03-20-2012, 09:31 PM
knocking Green Bays GM.....kinda hard to take this seriously, mate

utahphinsfan
03-20-2012, 09:35 PM
Wilson will be great, in the CFL. the WCO is all timing based but you have to get up over the line. There are no QBs that short. If that's how you want to go then you may as well take Kellen Moore, who has better size and more success.

Wilson had no problem getting the ball over the Badger OL & they are mammoth even by NFL standards.

utahphinsfan
03-20-2012, 09:37 PM
And if you don't like the Flutie comparison here's a modern one; he has the same game as Darron Thomas, only less physical tools. So if you're throwing a late pick at a guy how about one with solid measureables?

Well. You got the right conference. Nick Foles c'mon down!

SebastianTheFin
03-20-2012, 10:33 PM
Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins are my two favorite QBs this year (beyond the first two off the board, of course). I'd be very happy seeing the Dolphins use a 3rd-rounder on either.

Da GODfather
03-21-2012, 12:07 AM
I have watched Russel Wilson every year in college and this guy is incredibly impressive and built to run a west coast offense. His biggest knock against him is he is 5'11, but a WC offense does not need a super tall QB.

His pro day showcase was incredibly effective, and he completed 60-63 passes, blowing away real GMs who draft much better then we do like Green Bay's Ted Thompson.

The fins have a lot of needs and to reach on Tannehill is a mistake. Wilson can come in here and compete day 1 , and can run a WC offense. He is also extremely mobile and creates 1st downs with his legs. Furthermore, if he does not work out, it will not be a major issue since he is currently rated 10th best QB and the fins have an extra 3rd rounder to use on him.

The only 2 QBs I would take first round in this draft are Luck and RG3. After that, it is desperation to reach on a guy like Tannehill when Russel Wilson will be there in later rounds and could easily end up being better. the fins could get lucky and snag Blackmon (10% chance) or Richardson as their first pick instead, and worse case get an elite DE or OL..all better than taking a 2nd round pick QB way too early.

Just my opinion, but I watched Wilson crush people for years at NC state and then go to Wisconsin and do very well with an offense that is not nearly as well suited to him.
THIS ^^^
I really pray that we don't reach for ANYONE in this draft. Get the BPA and go balls to the wall next year for Barkley.

TedSlimmJr
03-21-2012, 12:47 AM
I dont really agree with it either but Sherman should know his real potential. But its not like Tannehill is just some crappy QB prospect, he definitely can be as good as Matt Ryan I believe and for what its worth Charles Casserly on NFL network said he's better than all the QB's prospects in last years draft (minus Cam Newton) and that he compares him to Joe Flacco and Josh Freeman type prospect and if they all three were in the same draft together, he would choose Tannehill over Flacco and Freeman.


Charley Casserly is a complete shrub. He was the guy who busted out on Heath Shuler and David Carr, and sat there last year on NFLN talking about how much he "loved Blaine Gabbert, even though I haven't seen him play"...

Josh Freeman can't hold Matt Ryan's jockstrap.


If Charley Casserly was half the QB evaluator he thought he was, he wouldn't be a mouthpiece. He'd still be in someone's front office.

Blake the great
03-21-2012, 09:42 AM
THIS ^^^
I really pray that we don't reach for ANYONE in this draft. Get the BPA and go balls to the wall next year for Barkley.

I hate it when fans say crap like this. Didnt we say the same thing about Andrew Luck this year? and we have absolute zero chance at the top QB's this year, and we even started the season 0-7. Every year other teams need QB's and there is no way of telling if we could have a chance at a top QB next year, we never have the trade power to move up. Some fans always have the mentality that next years draft of QB's is much better. that was suppose to be this year but thats not the case, so you never know. Im tired of waiting " for next years draft QB" it hasnt worked in the past. Unless we bomb the season and win one or two games which I would hate to see and its not being a true fan.

You cant just hope to draft a QB, you have to actually do it. we've been dickin around the QB position for too long now, its time to grow a pair, man up, take a chance, and reach for a QB in the first round if we have to.

Mudder1310
03-21-2012, 10:25 AM
Well. You got the right conference. Nick Foles c'mon down!
I'm a Foles fan, and would draft him with our 1st 3rd rd pick. But I was just looking for a guy who plays the same style of game as Wilson, and Thomas moves in the pocket and runs like Wilson.

Blustar
03-21-2012, 02:18 PM
Cbssports has him ranked as the 7th best QB and projected to go in the 3-4 rds. The scouting report on him mentioned he had a great combine. I always felt he passed the "naked eye" test. I thought he was great for Wisconsin last year and I watched Wisconsin play a few games because he just has that "it" factor. I'm really intrigued because he has everything a pro QB needs to be successful except size. He has a very strong arm, is ridiculously accurate, extremely intelligent, etc. . . Man if he was only a few inches taller.

Anyways, even if we draft Tannehill I would still draft Wilson. Didn't Green Bay draft a bunch of QB's for a few years till they hit on the one they liked? Mayb he can be a mini-Brees?

footsteps_falco
03-21-2012, 03:34 PM
BJ Coleman or kirk Cousins only guys that might be starters in the NFL. if i'm going to take an undersized prospect its going to be case keenum, no QB in this draft class has the release that he does, and very good anticipation. but hell be backup too or undrafted

SammySmif
08-25-2012, 12:06 AM
I like tannehill, but a lot of folks here ae going to be proven wrong by Wilson. I saw this coming a mile away.

MacGruber1
08-25-2012, 01:53 AM
Russell Wilson shredded the Chiefs 1st unit tonite. No idea if he's a long term starter for Seattle, but has looked really sharp so far this preseason.

ticophin
08-28-2012, 01:30 AM
Kuechly in the 1st...Wilson in the 2nd wouldve been OK, but IŽll wait till the Dobermans are released to see if heŽs THAT good...

j-off-her-doll
08-28-2012, 11:18 AM
I like tannehill, but a lot of folks here ae going to be proven wrong by Wilson. I saw this coming a mile away.

Hey man, good call.

MP-Omnis
08-30-2012, 01:45 PM
I love Wilson's release though. Ball comes out at the same height as every other tall QB.

SammySmif
04-30-2013, 02:09 PM
Wilson will be great, in the CFL. the WCO is all timing based but you have to get up over the line. There are no QBs that short. If that's how you want to go then you may as well take Kellen Moore, who has better size and more success.

LOL.

funny to read this post again.

I am happy with Tannehill, but tell me Wilson is not the real deal.

finfromthenorth
04-30-2013, 02:29 PM
Without the physical tools it is hard to stay in this league. Flutie is a name that comes to mind. Wilson did look great last year. I will wait to pass judgement on him until after the next couple of years. Only because of his size. He has amazin talent no question.

Birdmond
04-30-2013, 02:36 PM
Without the physical tools it is hard to stay in this league. Flutie is a name that comes to mind. Wilson did look great last year. I will wait to pass judgement on him until after the next couple of years. Only because of his size. He has amazin talent no question.

Besides height what physical tools is Wilson lacking? The dude is a baller, end of story. Oh and Seattle has set him up nicely to succeed.

ckparrothead
04-30-2013, 05:43 PM
Russell Wilson to my eyes was clearly the best rookie quarterback in 2012. It's all about how you finish. He finished. Luck and Griffin couldn't.

FearTheBeard
04-30-2013, 05:51 PM
Russell Wilson to my eyes was clearly the best rookie quarterback in 2012. It's all about how you finish. He finished. Luck and Griffin couldn't.

I still liked what I saw out of Luck better last season, but Wilson was always one of those guys who impressed me in college. If he could throw behind that Wisconsin line he can throw behind an NFL line. Long term I think Wilson is going to be in the Tannehill tier (that's Tanny rising, not Wilson falling), playing second fiddle to Luck. I have reservations about RGIII having a long career unfortunately, he's a hard one to peg long term.

ckparrothead
04-30-2013, 05:59 PM
For much of last year I would have agreed. But the way Russell Wilson finished the regular season and the playoffs told me this player isn't just some flash in the pan. He's going to end up one of the league's elite passers.

He already was. That's what is so stupefying. In the playoffs this year, there was virtually no difference between facing Russell Wilson and facing one of those elite guys. If you're a defense, the way Russell Wilson comes on you like a freight train once he gets in rhythm, was just as scary as facing one of those guys.

The test to REALLY be an elite guy is not to just flash for a few games though. Or not even a whole season. It's to keep that up over time. But from what I already knew about him coming out, and from what I've seen of him so far, he's shown me what I need to see in order to think...he will.

where's th'fish
05-01-2013, 11:31 AM
Russell Wilson to my eyes was clearly the best rookie quarterback in 2012. It's all about how you finish. He finished. Luck and Griffin couldn't.

Agreed. The kid was a beast.

Luck played out his damn mind against us, he was spectacular. But he also struggled in a few other games. Griffin played great in an offense perfectly designed to help him succeed... short term. I have a hard time being objective because I can't separate the brilliance of it from the utter stupidity of it.

ckparrothead
05-01-2013, 11:56 AM
Agreed. The kid was a beast.

Luck played out his damn mind against us, he was spectacular. But he also struggled in a few other games. Griffin played great in an offense perfectly designed to help him succeed... short term. I have a hard time being objective because I can't separate the brilliance of it from the utter stupidity of it.

The Redskins this year were the model for how you can tailor an offense to fit a quarterback with special skills. Griffin was brilliant in that offense when healthy. But he also did the same thing he did in college...took hits, and got hurt. He couldn't finish the season because of that.

TedSlimmJr
05-01-2013, 12:04 PM
Wilson played outstanding as a rookie, but the reality is that he was asked to do the least with the most around him in relation to the rest of the rookie QB class. He only attempted 393 passes, which tied Robert Griffin for the least passing attempts among the rookie class of QB's. Seattle ran the football 55% of the time which led the league. This is just a really good football team, and Wilson was a great fit.

If you look at a guy like Weeden for example, who was playing on a terrible Cleveland team, he was literally asked to carry that poor team from day 1. He attempted 35 passes in week 1.... 37 in week 2.... 43 in week 3.... 52 in week 4.... 35 in week 5.... etc. Not to mention, his receivers were terrible. Particularly Greg Little, who's drop percentage was tops in the league. Exactly half his schedule was against playoff teams, including the Super Bowl champion Ravens twice (Ravens twice, Bengals twice, Colts, Broncos, Redskins, and Packers). Weeden's 517 attempts were 2nd only to Andrew Luck in the rookie class.

Speaking of Andrew Luck, he was undoubtably the best rookie quarterback in my opinion. I don't know if any quarterback carried their team more than Luck did.... and that includes Peyton Manning. He attempted 627 passes while throwing to two rookie TE's and two rookie receivers, and led a team to the playoffs that was bad enough to pick him with the #1 overall pick less than a year prior.

Tannehill and Weeden were about the same during their rookie seasons.

dlockz
05-01-2013, 02:50 PM
Wilson played outstanding as a rookie, but the reality is that he was asked to do the least with the most around him in relation to the rest of the rookie QB class. He only attempted 393 passes, which tied Robert Griffin for the least passing attempts among the rookie class of QB's. Seattle ran the football 55% of the time which led the league. This is just a really good football team, and Wilson was a great fit.

If you look at a guy like Weeden for example, who was playing on a terrible Cleveland team, he was literally asked to carry that poor team from day 1. He attempted 35 passes in week 1.... 37 in week 2.... 43 in week 3.... 52 in week 4.... 35 in week 5.... etc. Not to mention, his receivers were terrible. Particularly Greg Little, who's drop percentage was tops in the league. Exactly half his schedule was against playoff teams, including the Super Bowl champion Ravens twice (Ravens twice, Bengals twice, Colts, Broncos, Redskins, and Packers). Weeden's 517 attempts were 2nd only to Andrew Luck in the rookie class.

Speaking of Andrew Luck, he was undoubtably the best rookie quarterback in my opinion. I don't know if any quarterback carried their team more than Luck did.... and that includes Peyton Manning. He attempted 627 passes while throwing to two rookie TE's and two rookie receivers, and led a team to the playoffs that was bad enough to pick him with the #1 overall pick less than a year prior.

Tannehill and Weeden were about the same during their rookie seasons.

Your last statement was pretty true although I like Tannehill more. To me there were 3 qb's that played fairly elite for rookies and Griffin, Luck and Wilson were the guys.
Outside of Weeden I like all 4. To me you are a bad team u dont invest that high a pick on a guy a few years younger than Garrard. As for Wilson, his height is what have most people still on fence and being of color probably gets him more critique than some.

where's th'fish
05-02-2013, 11:35 AM
Wilson played outstanding as a rookie, but the reality is that he was asked to do the least with the most around him in relation to the rest of the rookie QB class. He only attempted 393 passes, which tied Robert Griffin for the least passing attempts among the rookie class of QB's. Seattle ran the football 55% of the time which led the league. This is just a really good football team, and Wilson was a great fit.

If you look at a guy like Weeden for example, who was playing on a terrible Cleveland team, he was literally asked to carry that poor team from day 1. He attempted 35 passes in week 1.... 37 in week 2.... 43 in week 3.... 52 in week 4.... 35 in week 5.... etc. Not to mention, his receivers were terrible. Particularly Greg Little, who's drop percentage was tops in the league. Exactly half his schedule was against playoff teams, including the Super Bowl champion Ravens twice (Ravens twice, Bengals twice, Colts, Broncos, Redskins, and Packers). Weeden's 517 attempts were 2nd only to Andrew Luck in the rookie class.

Speaking of Andrew Luck, he was undoubtably the best rookie quarterback in my opinion. I don't know if any quarterback carried their team more than Luck did.... and that includes Peyton Manning. He attempted 627 passes while throwing to two rookie TE's and two rookie receivers, and led a team to the playoffs that was bad enough to pick him with the #1 overall pick less than a year prior.

Tannehill and Weeden were about the same during their rookie seasons.

The numbers don't reflect that Seattle ran the ball an awful lot and protected Wilson early on but by the end of the year Wilson was unstoppable. About Weeden and Tannehill, I don't see how they were the same. So Cleveland's defense stank. Meanwhile, we had Colombo at RT and Hartline as our #1 WR, with a running game led by Reggie Bush. Hardly stellar.

dlockz
05-02-2013, 11:40 AM
The numbers don't reflect that Seattle ran the ball an awful lot and protected Wilson early on but by the end of the year Wilson was unstoppable. About Weeden and Tannehill, I don't see how they were the same. So Cleveland's defense stank. Meanwhile, we had Colombo at RT and Hartline as our #1 WR, with a running game led by Reggie Bush. Hardly stellar.

Am I confused or are u a year behind with Columbo. Hell I did it yesterday saying Smith was a left hander

Spesh
05-02-2013, 11:53 AM
The numbers don't reflect that Seattle ran the ball an awful lot and protected Wilson early on but by the end of the year Wilson was unstoppable. About Weeden and Tannehill, I don't see how they were the same. So Cleveland's defense stank. Meanwhile, we had Colombo at RT and Hartline as our #1 WR, with a running game led by Reggie Bush. Hardly stellar.

Colombo was our right tackle in 2011, the Henne/Matt Moore year. Martin started for us at right tackle last season.

TedSlimmJr
05-02-2013, 01:04 PM
The numbers don't reflect that Seattle ran the ball an awful lot and protected Wilson early on but by the end of the year Wilson was unstoppable. About Weeden and Tannehill, I don't see how they were the same. So Cleveland's defense stank. Meanwhile, we had Colombo at RT and Hartline as our #1 WR, with a running game led by Reggie Bush. Hardly stellar.



No idea what you're talking about in terms of Colombo, which has already been brought to your attention. Furthermore, the numbers do reflect that Seattle ran the ball a lot. In fact, the numbers just flat out prove it. They are what they are. Seattle ran the football a larger percentage of the time than any other offense in the league. The Seahawks fit Russell Wilson into an offense.... they already knew what they were going to do and had an identity whether it was Matt Flynn or Russell Wilson..... as opposed to some of these other rookie quarterbacks. Seattle was already a .500 team before they drafted Wilson for all intents and purposes. Seattle's 7-9 record in 2011 doesn't reflect how good of a football team they actually were.

Weeden was drafted by a dumpster fire organization with no identity on offense or defense, and no real plan as to what they were going to do. He wasn't plugged in to an offensive philosophy. They just instructed him to go out there for the first month of the season and throw the ball 50 times a game to receivers who can't catch starting from day 1.... and doing it against one of the hardest schedules in the league. That's a lot to ask of a rookie quarterback with no weapons on a bad football team with a lame duck coaching staff. I can guarantee you Russell Wilson nor Robert Griffin would fare very well in that situation. Wilson and Griffin only attempted 393 passes, which is substantially lower than the rest of the rookie QB class.

Tannehill already had familiarity with Mike Sherman's offense. He was at least comfortable with his coach, his terminology, route concepts and protections. Tannehill ended up completing 58.3% of his passes, for 3,294 yards, and a 12/13 touchdown to INT ratio... with a QB rating of 76.1.

Weeden completed 57.4% of his passes while throwing to a stonehanded receiver in Greg Little, who's drop percentage led the league. Tallied 3,385 yards, with a 14/17 touchdown to INT ratio, and didn't even play in the last game of the season.... ended up with a 72.6 QB rating.

Four of Weeden's 17 INT's came in his first career start on a day where he was asked to drop back and wing it 35 times. He threw 14 TD's and 13 INT's over the next 14 games until he sat out the last week of the season.

That's about as close as two rookie quarterbacks can play. Not to mention, Ryan Tannehill had the best left tackle in history for pete's sake.

Nappy Roots
05-02-2013, 01:08 PM
Maybe I am jumping into this conversation at the wrong time and missing something without reading the entire thread, but best left tackle in history?

Also, I would argue, while numbers were similar with the two QBs, watching both I think would show a different story.

TedSlimmJr
05-02-2013, 01:20 PM
Maybe I am jumping into this conversation at the wrong time and missing something without reading the entire thread, but best left tackle in history?Also, I would argue, while numbers were similar with the two QBs, watching both I think would show a different story.


Hell yeah. Just ask all the folks that wanted to see him resigned.

If you're going to argue that despite the numbers the QB's weren't similar, then argue it. I'll guarantee I saw both of 'em play.

BlueFin
05-02-2013, 02:05 PM
No idea what you're talking about in terms of Colombo, which has already been brought to your attention. Furthermore, the numbers do reflect that Seattle ran the ball a lot. In fact, the numbers just flat out prove it. They are what they are. Seattle ran the football a larger percentage of the time than any other offense in the league. The Seahawks fit Russell Wilson into an offense.... they already knew what they were going to do and had an identity whether it was Matt Flynn or Russell Wilson..... as opposed to some of these other rookie quarterbacks. Seattle was already a .500 team before they drafted Wilson for all intents and purposes. Seattle's 7-9 record in 2011 doesn't reflect how good of a football team they actually were.

Weeden was drafted by a dumpster fire organization with no identity on offense or defense, and no real plan as to what they were going to do. He wasn't plugged in to an offensive philosophy. They just instructed him to go out there for the first month of the season and throw the ball 50 times a game to receivers who can't catch starting from day 1.... and doing it against one of the hardest schedules in the league. That's a lot to ask of a rookie quarterback with no weapons on a bad football team with a lame duck coaching staff. I can guarantee you Russell Wilson nor Robert Griffin would fare very well in that situation. Wilson and Griffin only attempted 393 passes, which is substantially lower than the rest of the rookie QB class.

Tannehill already had familiarity with Mike Sherman's offense. He was at least comfortable with his coach, his terminology, route concepts and protections. Tannehill ended up completing 58.3% of his passes, for 3,294 yards, and a 12/13 touchdown to INT ratio... with a QB rating of 76.1.

Weeden completed 57.4% of his passes while throwing to a stonehanded receiver in Greg Little, who's drop percentage led the league. Tallied 3,385 yards, with a 14/17 touchdown to INT ratio, and didn't even play in the last game of the season.... ended up with a 72.6 QB rating.

Four of Weeden's 17 INT's came in his first career start on a day where he was asked to drop back and wing it 35 times. He threw 14 TD's and 13 INT's over the next 14 games until he sat out the last week of the season.

That's about as close as two rookie quarterbacks can play. Not to mention, Ryan Tannehill had the best left tackle in history for pete's sake.

Can't argue the overall numbers being similar, I do think Tannehill finished stronger than Weeden, only throwing 1 interception in his last 5 games, whereas Weeden threw 5 ints in his final 5.

I would not trade Tannehill for Weeden.

ckparrothead
05-02-2013, 03:35 PM
No idea what you're talking about in terms of Colombo, which has already been brought to your attention. Furthermore, the numbers do reflect that Seattle ran the ball a lot. In fact, the numbers just flat out prove it. They are what they are. Seattle ran the football a larger percentage of the time than any other offense in the league. The Seahawks fit Russell Wilson into an offense.... they already knew what they were going to do and had an identity whether it was Matt Flynn or Russell Wilson..... as opposed to some of these other rookie quarterbacks. Seattle was already a .500 team before they drafted Wilson for all intents and purposes. Seattle's 7-9 record in 2011 doesn't reflect how good of a football team they actually were.

Weeden was drafted by a dumpster fire organization with no identity on offense or defense, and no real plan as to what they were going to do. He wasn't plugged in to an offensive philosophy. They just instructed him to go out there for the first month of the season and throw the ball 50 times a game to receivers who can't catch starting from day 1.... and doing it against one of the hardest schedules in the league. That's a lot to ask of a rookie quarterback with no weapons on a bad football team with a lame duck coaching staff. I can guarantee you Russell Wilson nor Robert Griffin would fare very well in that situation. Wilson and Griffin only attempted 393 passes, which is substantially lower than the rest of the rookie QB class.

Tannehill already had familiarity with Mike Sherman's offense. He was at least comfortable with his coach, his terminology, route concepts and protections. Tannehill ended up completing 58.3% of his passes, for 3,294 yards, and a 12/13 touchdown to INT ratio... with a QB rating of 76.1.

Weeden completed 57.4% of his passes while throwing to a stonehanded receiver in Greg Little, who's drop percentage led the league. Tallied 3,385 yards, with a 14/17 touchdown to INT ratio, and didn't even play in the last game of the season.... ended up with a 72.6 QB rating.

Four of Weeden's 17 INT's came in his first career start on a day where he was asked to drop back and wing it 35 times. He threw 14 TD's and 13 INT's over the next 14 games until he sat out the last week of the season.

That's about as close as two rookie quarterbacks can play. Not to mention, Ryan Tannehill had the best left tackle in history for pete's sake.

I agree with you on Weeden. I'll add a quick point to what you're saying, and then I'll hang up before I'm accused of bias because obviously I had a positive evaluation of Weeden coming out.

It probably should be noted that Brandon Weeden was strictly a shotgun guy in college, yet when he got to Cleveland they put him under center more than just about any quarterback in the NFL. Out of 39 quarterbacks qualified by Pro Football Focus, Brandon Weeden's shotgun percentage at 43% ranked #38. Only Matt Schaub took a smaller percentage of shotgun passes.

It's one thing to expect a shotgun player to come to the NFL and adapt to the way the NFL does things. Every player has to do that to some extent. But it's another thing to be completely ridiculous about it and make him the 2nd-most under-center quarterback in the National Football League.

In the shotgun, Weeden had a 79 passer rating. Under center, he had a 68 passer rating.

Shotgun trends are definitely on a secular upswing in the NFL. Every year you can chart the percentages and they inch up further and further. The 10 most shotgun-oriented passers in the league are now in the 75 to 80+ percent range as far as percentages of shotgun passes. The Cleveland Browns decided that not only would they completely buck this trend and go the other direction, but that they'd do it with a quarterback who played in a shotgun Air Raid derivative offense in 2010 and 2011.

Confusing.

TedSlimmJr
05-02-2013, 04:14 PM
I agree with you on Weeden. I'll add a quick point to what you're saying, and then I'll hang up before I'm accused of bias because obviously I had a positive evaluation of Weeden coming out.

It probably should be noted that Brandon Weeden was strictly a shotgun guy in college, yet when he got to Cleveland they put him under center more than just about any quarterback in the NFL. Out of 39 quarterbacks qualified by Pro Football Focus, Brandon Weeden's shotgun percentage at 43% ranked #38. Only Matt Schaub took a smaller percentage of shotgun passes.

It's one thing to expect a shotgun player to come to the NFL and adapt to the way the NFL does things. Every player has to do that to some extent. But it's another thing to be completely ridiculous about it and make him the 2nd-most under-center quarterback in the National Football League.

In the shotgun, Weeden had a 79 passer rating. Under center, he had a 68 passer rating.

Shotgun trends are definitely on a secular upswing in the NFL. Every year you can chart the percentages and they inch up further and further. The 10 most shotgun-oriented passers in the league are now in the 75 to 80+ percent range as far as percentages of shotgun passes. The Cleveland Browns decided that not only would they completely buck this trend and go the other direction, but that they'd do it with a quarterback who played in a shotgun Air Raid derivative offense in 2010 and 2011.

Confusing.



No question, and great points.... overlooked points in fact. The 3 main knocks that I saddled Weeden with coming out were ball placement, inexperience under center, and being turnover prone. He still graded out as my #2 quarterback, although at the top of the 2nd round. Cleveland is so desperate for a receiver that can simply catch a football that they traded for Davone Bess. That alone speaks volumes.

Seattle was damn near a .500 football team with Tarvaris Jackson as their quarterback. Let that sink in for a moment.

They were able to plug Wilson in to a philosophy around him that already worked. I'm not taking anything away from Wilson, but them's the facts. He's outstanding in the huddle, and his composure is obvious. However, the point is that he wouldn't look so hot in the situations Weeden or Luck were playing in as rookies.

I understand that there's folks like BlueFin around here that wouldn't trade Ryan Tannehill for Joe Montana in his prime for whatever reason, much less a Brandon Weeden. However, that's not exactly a bold stance to begin with. For example, I wouldn't trade Tannehill for Robert Griffin no matter how much hype he gets.... because I've always taken more of a long term point of view. There was a thread last year asking who would trade Tannehill for Griffin and I said absolutely not. Again, it has more to do with how I viewed Griffin long term as opposed to being convinced Tannehill was ever going to make an elite quarterback.

I realize you and Jim1 pumped Weeden up to the point of nauseum during the months prior to the draft. While I also had a positive evaluation on Weeden, I dinged him more for his flaws, and it was a close call between him and Tannehill as my #2 and #3 quarterbacks just ahead of Griffin. It's still too close to call in my estimation. Neither has had anything to work with.

ckparrothead
05-02-2013, 04:31 PM
I realize you and Jim1 pumped Weeden up to the point of nauseum during the months prior to the draft. While I also had a positive evaluation on Weeden, I dinged him more for his flaws, and it was a close call between him and Tannehill as my #2 and #3 quarterbacks just ahead of Griffin. It's still too close to call in my estimation. Neither has had anything to work with.

What's kind of funny about that is now that I read what you wrote above, if I'm understanding your implications correctly, you rated the top 5 quarterbacks in exactly the same order I did...Luck, Weeden, Tannehill (close up on Weeden), Griffin, Wilson (very close to Griffin).

Difference being you striated Weeden and Tannehill in the 2nd round and I'm guessing Griffin and Wilson in the 3rd? I had Luck, Weeden and Tannehill all solid 1st rounders and Griffin & Wilson as high 2nds or low 1sts.

But I'm much more of a sucker for drafting a QB high than you. Especially since the implication that drafting a QB high is even on the table means that your team doesn't have one, in which case you'd better hurry up and start laying down some investments otherwise you're drowning.

RobertHorry
05-02-2013, 05:46 PM
I agree and understand the rankings Slimm and CK gave the quarterbacks.

I went

1. Luck
2. Tannenhill
3. Weeden
4. RG3
5. Wilson

Chubby
05-02-2013, 08:44 PM
Color me Pink if you like, but I am still not a Russel Wilson believer.

where's th'fish
05-03-2013, 10:48 AM
Am I confused or are u a year behind with Columbo. Hell I did it yesterday saying Smith was a left hander

Oops! Timequake! :D

Anyway, leave rushing out of it. My point about Wilson is that no other rookie QB changed more, along with the offense he was in, from the beginning to the end of the season than Wilson and Seattle did. Sure, he was in an ideal situation. The fact is, he needs a very specific offense to succeed. But that was known even before the draft.

Martel13
05-04-2013, 03:22 AM
good call bro, Sammy Smif for Dolphins gm lol

UFGators
05-04-2013, 01:16 PM
Kudos to SammySmif!

SammySmif
05-05-2013, 01:42 PM
Some good points here. SEA used Wilson properly. They kept his attempts pretty low, but games where he had to throw more showed him deliver.

The main thing about Wilson is the value of the pick. To get a guy that late in the draft who ends up playing as well as the first rounders is very impressive.

I just hate message board experts who make rules for people (too small to play QB..etc) and don't watch film, don't know the game and just vomit out rehashed stuff that they read.

Wilson is a winner. He was a winner in college and he will be a winner in the NFL. That is a quality that many people don't value enough. It is incredibly key in sports. Hell, look at the Chicago Bulls win last night. Perfect example.

JDRA20
05-05-2013, 04:10 PM
That's about as close as two rookie quarterbacks can play. Not to mention, Ryan Tannehill had the best left tackle in history for pete's sake.

Cause Weeden didn't have Joe Thomas? (WHO'S BETTER THAN JAKE LONG.)

I can't disagree with you though, Weeden and Tannehill had similar numbers. Weeden seemed to grow less comfortable as the season progressed whereas Tannehill seemed to get into rhythm.

Just saying, Joe Flacco's rookie year saw him go 14TD's, 12INT's and 60% completion for less than 3000 yards on arguably a much better team than the Dolphins had last year.