PDA

View Full Version : Ryan Tannehill At #8?



A&O
03-22-2012, 12:34 AM
Comment(s)

Travis34
03-22-2012, 12:53 AM
He'll probably be available at 8, I don't see anyone in front of us taking except for maybe the Browns, but I don't think they will. I'd rather trade back and grab Michael Floyd mid-first than spend #8 on Tannehill

Smith21
03-22-2012, 12:56 AM
I voted yes because ive been under the assumption that Philbin and Sherman know who they want and they passed on Flynn, With a couple of 1 year stop gabs in front of Ryan, it gives us Hope for the future..

yes i said hope.. someone Que the Presidents picture,

damanref10
03-22-2012, 12:57 AM
still a converted WR.. dont see cleveland passing on trent richardson, justin blackmon, morris claiborne, or matt kalil if they are available.. and the teams after that dont need him

ticophin
03-22-2012, 01:03 AM
trade back to the mid teens and go with Weeden...then, we´ll be playin´with the big boys!!

Bartowboy
03-22-2012, 01:17 AM
Yes he will, Cleveland needs someone who would be able to play this season.
Tannehill is a great talent, but he's very raw. Cleveland in the end will draft BPA.

ticophin
03-22-2012, 01:43 AM
Tanehill will be available, but we have HUGE holes at WR and pass rush...I wouldn´t do it

newlife2788
03-22-2012, 01:59 AM
To me I wouldn't take him at 8 i would trade down to low teens round and still try to get him and also another 3rd or 4th pick. I watched some videos on him and he doesn't strike me as a starting QB in the NFL, I will give him that he is very athletic and I do like that about him but as a pure passers standpoint... No. trade down.

J. David Wannyheimer
03-22-2012, 01:59 AM
Yes he will, Cleveland needs someone who would be able to play this season.
Tannehill is a great talent, but he's very raw. Cleveland in the end will draft BPA.

Holmgren has always said that you need 30-40 starts to really evaluate a quarterback. He's gonna 'give Colt McCoy a chance' and then draft Matt Barkley in 2013.

TedSlimmJr
03-22-2012, 02:26 AM
Tannehill doesn't always use his athleticism to his advantage. He still doesn't understand situational football to the extent that you would like to see in a quarterback you're about to invest in with a top 10 pick.

Perfect example is in the Oklahoma game -

The score is 13-10 with Oklahoma leading with 29 seconds left in the 2nd quarter. A&M is trying to drive down and get into field goal range before halftime, and they have the ball at their own 47 yardline -

It's 3rd and 4...


Oklahoma rushes 5 on a blitz, drops 6 into coverage... Ronnell Lewis flushes Tannehill and he breaks the pocket to his right.... there's nothing but green grass and daylight in between Tannehill and the 1st down marker only 4 yards in front of him -

Rather than just pick it up easily and untouched with his legs, he hangs behind the LOS and continues running horizontally to it while double clutching the football waiting for Nwachukwu to uncover- just keeps staring him down....

He finally decides to flick it about 12 yards in front of him to a completely blanketed Nwachukwu, and throws it about 6 feet out of bounds where his receiver had no shot to catch it.


A&M punts the football and has no shot at a field goal before halftime - when an easy 1st down keeps the drive going inside Oklahoma territory. A&M still had all 3 timeouts.


Tannehill went on to throw 2 more picks in the second half to Ronnell Lewis and Jamell Fleming that were poor throws and bad decisions as Oklahoma proceeded to blow out A&M in what was a tightly contested game.

When you really go over Tannehill's tape, you see this recurring theme in his games. Playing receiver for 2 years really stunted his development as a quarterback. I thought he threw with much better anticipation and processed information much quicker as a junior than he did as a senior. I don't think he's completely comfortable yet taking the game on his shoulders and it shows up in clutch situations, particularly in the 2nd halves of these games.

I think he's a late 1st round talent, but an early 2nd round quarterback at this point in his development. Whoever takes him early in the 1st round is reaching for something that just isn't there right now.

Elliott 1
03-22-2012, 02:37 AM
The Jags are already openly selling the #7 pick. If KC or AZ likes him it won't cost much to trade up and snatch him right in front of us.

However, that may be just fine with the Dolphins who would rather wait and see if Weeden or Cousins slides into the 3rd round.

Uruguayfinfan
03-22-2012, 05:09 AM
Sorry but no. Tannehill will neeed about 2 years to actually become a decent NfL QB.Everyone is trying hoping we draft a QB, like if it will be a quick fix, when it won't. I say trade down and go WR, or go up and get blackmon.

buxster07
03-22-2012, 06:23 AM
Tannehill doesn't always use his athleticism to his advantage. He still doesn't understand situational football to the extent that you would like to see in a quarterback you're about to invest in with a top 10 pick.

Perfect example is in the Oklahoma game -

The score is 13-10 with Oklahoma leading with 29 seconds left in the 2nd quarter. A&M is trying to drive down and get into field goal range before halftime, and they have the ball at their own 47 yardline -

It's 3rd and 4...


Oklahoma rushes 5 on a blitz, drops 6 into coverage... Ronnell Lewis flushes Tannehill and he breaks the pocket to his right.... there's nothing but green grass and daylight in between Tannehill and the 1st down marker only 4 yards in front of him -

Rather than just pick it up easily and untouched with his legs, he hangs behind the LOS and continues running horizontally to it while double clutching the football waiting for Nwachukwu to uncover- just keeps staring him down....

He finally decides to flick it about 12 yards in front of him to a completely blanketed Nwachukwu, and throws it about 6 feet out of bounds where his receiver had no shot to catch it.


A&M punts the football and has no shot at a field goal before halftime - when an easy 1st down keeps the drive going inside Oklahoma territory. A&M still had all 3 timeouts.


Tannehill went on to throw 2 more picks in the second half to Ronnell Lewis and Jamell Fleming that were poor throws and bad decisions as Oklahoma proceeded to blow out A&M in what was a tightly contested game.

When you really go over Tannehill's tape, you see this recurring theme in his games. Playing receiver for 2 years really stunted his development as a quarterback. I thought he threw with much better anticipation and processed information much quicker as a junior than he did as a senior. I don't think he's completely comfortable yet taking the game on his shoulders and it shows up in clutch situations, particularly in the 2nd halves of these games.

I think he's a late 1st round talent, but an early 2nd round quarterback at this point in his development. Whoever takes him early in the 1st round is reaching for something that just isn't there right now.

Awesome breakdown of Tannehill.

NYinBostonFin
03-22-2012, 07:32 AM
Comment 1, you like polls

Comment 2, we will be reaching for him unfortunately

The Goat
03-22-2012, 08:00 AM
Bah. I misread the poll. Yes, he will be there. No, we should not select him. Too much of a reach.

My dream scenario is that Cleveland drafts him at 4, and the other teams between at 5,6 and 7 choke on their own tongues, and Blackmon falls to us.

Pitbull13
03-22-2012, 08:06 AM
I do believe he will be there. Cleveland will draft Blackmon. The question is, will we take him because this FO is not predictable at all. I do think we draft Tannehill at 8 if we can not trade down.

BlueFin
03-22-2012, 08:53 AM
Yes, because this franchise needs to stop avoiding drafting quarterbacks when a talented one is available....and Tannehill is talented. He has a huge upside and we need to roll the dice here.

A decade of futility...passing on the Drew Brees, Aaron Rogers etc etc etc......should be enough to prove to anyone how important the QB position is and what happens when you don't prioritize it.

But, you still read posts from fans who don't get it......................

wizzyfin
03-22-2012, 08:54 AM
I agree, with weeden comes maturity, and if had to, would be able to start, he's big, and has an hell of an arm, and last but not least, he beat them all, head to head, luck, rg3, and tannehill, take him in the draft.

RockyMtnPhinfan
03-22-2012, 09:00 AM
Reach smeech, if he IS the guy they want then i hope they get him where they can. I get tired of hearing about us reaching for him at 8. If you get the guy you want then you get him when you can. If we trade back hoping he will be there with our luck he won't be. This is a quarterback driven league and we have not had **** for a QB in quite some time. So those factors being what they are i just hope we get who the coaches want to get. If it's Tannehill then so be it.

Geordie
03-22-2012, 09:34 AM
I'm a dumbass and read the poll wrong, I thought it was a would you take RT at #8. So I voted no. I think he will be there at 8 for us, but I wouldn't take him there personally, I don't think he's good enough. He's a huge project, I don't even think he's a top 2 round pick, think his value is in the 3rd. However because of our need I would be ok overdrafting him, but it would have to me a trade down in the first, to at least get some value from his pick. If he's gone by the time we pick with the trade down, then no big loss move on to the next project and get appropriate value for him.

ckparrothead
03-22-2012, 12:07 PM
Between Ryan Tannehill and Brandon Weeden, the only way you lose the game is by not playing. Take either one, and win.

The Omen
03-22-2012, 12:14 PM
I have mixed feelings about this. he's 24yr and is still really raw, he'll sit the bench a year and take at least 2-3yrs to fully develope.

If they are targetting him, I hope they trade back, if not I don't see him even close to being the BPA at #8

j0hnny63
03-22-2012, 12:44 PM
Tannehill will be there at 8. He won't be at 9. Mark it down.

Kinzua
03-22-2012, 12:58 PM
Tannehill is a 2nd round talent being touted by the media and the "draftniks" because there's only 2 legit first round QB prospects in this draft: Luck and Griffin. These types always drool over QBs in the draft, and then they're surprised when the Matt Leinarts, Brady Quinns, Jimmy Claussens, et al, don't draw that much interest from the pros and don't ever do anything in the NFL. BTW, most drafts produce only produce 1 decent QB (and some none), and that might not even be an elite QB. The drafts that produce multiple top QBs are few and far between (1983 and 2004).

#8 overall is NOT the place that any team should draft a project, especially NOT a project QB. Take somebody who can help the team this season.

ckparrothead
03-22-2012, 01:21 PM
I think you have to be careful when tossing around the word "raw" with respect to Ryan Tannehill. I think some people have a good bead on exactly where Ryan Tannehill is under-developed. For example, when TedSlimmJr brings up Tannehill's lack of feel for when Tannehill can use his natural athleticism to do things the easy way rather than the hard way...that's a perfect example. Shows up all through Tannehill's tape. But I'm not comfortable referring to that as "raw" because it's a skill many pro quarterbacks lack. The shame of it comes purely from knowing that Ryan Tannehill DOES have this great 4.4x or low 4.5 speed at his disposal and if he gets the right angle he could get behind and beat an entire defense with that speed. It's something you can work on, an area of potential upside.

But otherwise, how is this guy raw? Does he rotate his hips perfectly into every throw? No. But neither does Andrew Luck, whose velocity is generated all from his arm and very little from his lower half. Does Ryan Tannehill sometimes fall in love with what he thinks is going to happen after the snap and try and push the ball in anyway? Yes, absolutely. So does just about every quarterback that isn't Aaron Rodgers. Andrew Luck does that, too.

But "raw" should be a term reserved for a guy whose throwing motion is not clean yet, who has the ball come off his hand inconsistently, who can't sense or deal with a pass rush in the pocket, who can't hit the broad side of a barn from an accuracy standpoint, who doesn't recognize coverages or get his team into the right plays before the snap, a guy whose feet are stiff and who ends up disconnecting his upper and lower halves for no real reason.

That's "raw," and none of it describes Ryan Tannehill.

Ryan Tannehill always has been and always will be a quarterback, in his mind. He was a high school quarterback, he's a college quarterback, the bulk of his experience is as a quarterback. But he was moved to wide receiver and unselfishly played that position (along with several special teams positions) for the good of the team. He practiced at wide receiver for 2.5 of his 4 playing years, yet he comes out with more polish than Jake Locker could show after a life time working at a shoe shine stand.

People are impatient with the guy because of 6 losses. But not all of those were on him. That "meltdown" in the second half of the Oklahoma State game consisted of two bad throws. That's it. That's the extent of Ryan Tannehill's ownership of Texas A&M's second half meltdown. One throw was on 3rd down and he had an open man over the middle, led him by about 3 feet too much, pass goes incomplete and the drive ends. You can't have that. Against Brandon Weeden, every drive counts. Other bad throw was a combination of factors. Texas A&M had already shown the Cowboys pass plays out of that tight Run & Shoot Double Slot formation (don't know what else to call it) on several occasions and so the defense had a good bead on Tannehill's read progression out of it. They took advantage and lined up with a 3-man DL with one DE hand up showing blitz to the side where Tannehill's first read would be to see if a defender is buzzing the flat. The flat defender had seen this play multiple times already and again buzzed the flat but this time he cheated and began bailing early to get depth so that he can rob the spot where you would normally find a hole between the cover two zones. The right tackle never picked up the defensive end that stood up before snap (big time protection breakdown), and Tannehill is left having to make the guy miss in the pocket, which he does. It delays the throw though, and Tannehill just sticks with what he thought was going to happen, ball gets picked off.

Otherwise, Tannehill threw two picks that weren't totally his fault. One he threw on a 12 yard out with perfect anticipation, which means the ball was out of his hands before Jeff Fuller had come out of his break. Problem is, when it came time for Fuller to come out of his break, he slipped and fell. That is in no way, shape or form Ryan Tannehill's fault. That's an anticipation throw (which people say Tannehill can't do, for some reason), and it was purely on Fuller. The second pick he threw as he was driving for the win-or-tie in the final minutes, ball placement wasn't perfect but neither was the route, tipped up by Fuller and picked off by the DB. Other than that, when other second half drives ended, it was a fumble by a receiver, penalties, and/or drops.

People say he doesn't throw with anticipation. I see him do it all the time. I think his main problems have to do with his timing not necessarily being crisp yet, and falling in love with what he wants to do with the ball pre-snap, which can lead to defenses being able to adjust on him. But these are problems of youth, on a guy that threw and ran for 33 TDs in 2011 in a read-progression WCO.

I think a lot of people are over thinking this one, and getting caught up in all this "value" bull ****.

wonderl33t
03-22-2012, 01:28 PM
still a converted WR..

no he's not. He was QB who played WR for 2 seasons. Even when playing WR, he was either #2 or #3 on the QB depth chart (#3 as a freshman, #2 after that), and he attended every QB meeting.

Dominate
03-22-2012, 01:29 PM
Excellent post CK.

Since there is no thanks button, I gave props to your reputation.

I'd be happy with Tannehill at 8 if they are sure he is the franchise guy. Otherwise, take another area of need and pick up Weeden in the 2nd. If Weeden plays like I think he can, having him as our starting QB for 7-9 solid years is ok with me too.

wonderl33t
03-22-2012, 01:30 PM
I think a lot of people are over thinking this one, and getting caught up in all this "value" bull ****.

Good analysis CK and good point at the end, there. Folk are nitpicking pretty hard right now. If you dig that deep, you can find knocks on even the "can't miss" prospects like Luck. Hell, there are analyses of Griffin on this board that would make me not want him until the 4th round.

damanref10
03-22-2012, 01:34 PM
no he's not. He was QB who played WR for 2 seasons. Even when playing WR, he was either #2 or #3 on the QB depth chart (#3 as a freshman, #2 after that), and he attended every QB meeting.

obviously a poor choice of words on my part. in his college career, he spent more time as a Wide Receiver than as a QB. IMO, i don't see that as someone to hand my franchise to this year or even next year.

He is the absolute perfect player to be drafted behind someone like Peyton Manning. Who he can learn from and in a few years have all the quarterback experience at a pro level he can.

Philbin is the total wildcard here, and I have no idea how good he personally is at developing quarterbacks. But if the past of the dolphins is any indicator... we need a quarterback with much less of a "project" mindset.

wonderl33t
03-22-2012, 01:41 PM
obviously a poor choice of words on my part. in his college career, he spent more time as a Wide Receiver than as a QB.

Lol, no he didn't! He was a QB the whole time! I think it's silly that people are turning this into a knock. If anything, it's impressive. What if Andrew Luck had volunteered to play WR as a RS-freshman and happened to be the best WR on the team? And then next year started at QB as a RS-soph and had that season he had? He was projected as a first round pick after that season. Would playing WR his freshman year be a negative?

Your other points are good ones btw, but I can't agree at all about the WR thing.

phishxhead
03-22-2012, 01:42 PM
If he is going to sit this year and is a reach at 8 why not just trade our pick for a first+ in next years draft. This would give us ammo to move up and grab an elite prospect like Barkley.

ckparrothead
03-22-2012, 02:14 PM
I like Michael Irvin's viewpoint on stuff like this. You decide whether the guy is right for you or not, the market sets the price.

Vaark
03-22-2012, 02:45 PM
I think you have to be careful when tossing around the word "raw" with respect to Ryan Tannehill. I think some people have a good bead on exactly where Ryan Tannehill is under-developed. For example, when TedSlimmJr brings up Tannehill's lack of feel for when Tannehill can use his natural athleticism to do things the easy way rather than the hard way...that's a perfect example. Shows up all through Tannehill's tape. But I'm not comfortable referring to that as "raw" because it's a skill many pro quarterbacks lack. The shame of it comes purely from knowing that Ryan Tannehill DOES have this great 4.4x or low 4.5 speed at his disposal and if he gets the right angle he could get behind and beat an entire defense with that speed. It's something you can work on, an area of potential upside.

But otherwise, how is this guy raw? Does he rotate his hips perfectly into every throw? No. But neither does Andrew Luck, whose velocity is generated all from his arm and very little from his lower half. Does Ryan Tannehill sometimes fall in love with what he thinks is going to happen after the snap and try and push the ball in anyway? Yes, absolutely. So does just about every quarterback that isn't Aaron Rodgers. Andrew Luck does that, too.

But "raw" should be a term reserved for a guy whose throwing motion is not clean yet, who has the ball come off his hand inconsistently, who can't sense or deal with a pass rush in the pocket, who can't hit the broad side of a barn from an accuracy standpoint, who doesn't recognize coverages or get his team into the right plays before the snap, a guy whose feet are stiff and who ends up disconnecting his upper and lower halves for no real reason.

That's "raw," and none of it describes Ryan Tannehill.

Ryan Tannehill always has been and always will be a quarterback, in his mind. He was a high school quarterback, he's a college quarterback, the bulk of his experience is as a quarterback. But he was moved to wide receiver and unselfishly played that position (along with several special teams positions) for the good of the team. He practiced at wide receiver for 2.5 of his 4 playing years, yet he comes out with more polish than Jake Locker could show after a life time working at a shoe shine stand.

People are impatient with the guy because of 6 losses. But not all of those were on him. That "meltdown" in the second half of the Oklahoma State game consisted of two bad throws. That's it. That's the extent of Ryan Tannehill's ownership of Texas A&M's second half meltdown. One throw was on 3rd down and he had an open man over the middle, led him by about 3 feet too much, pass goes incomplete and the drive ends. You can't have that. Against Brandon Weeden, every drive counts. Other bad throw was a combination of factors. Texas A&M had already shown the Cowboys pass plays out of that tight Run & Shoot Double Slot formation (don't know what else to call it) on several occasions and so the defense had a good bead on Tannehill's read progression out of it. They took advantage and lined up with a 3-man DL with one DE hand up showing blitz to the side where Tannehill's first read would be to see if a defender is buzzing the flat. The flat defender had seen this play multiple times already and again buzzed the flat but this time he cheated and began bailing early to get depth so that he can rob the spot where you would normally find a hole between the cover two zones. The right tackle never picked up the defensive end that stood up before snap (big time protection breakdown), and Tannehill is left having to make the guy miss in the pocket, which he does. It delays the throw though, and Tannehill just sticks with what he thought was going to happen, ball gets picked off.

Otherwise, Tannehill threw two picks that weren't totally his fault. One he threw on a 12 yard out with perfect anticipation, which means the ball was out of his hands before Jeff Fuller had come out of his break. Problem is, when it came time for Fuller to come out of his break, he slipped and fell. That is in no way, shape or form Ryan Tannehill's fault. That's an anticipation throw (which people say Tannehill can't do, for some reason), and it was purely on Fuller. The second pick he threw as he was driving for the win-or-tie in the final minutes, ball placement wasn't perfect but neither was the route, tipped up by Fuller and picked off by the DB. Other than that, when other second half drives ended, it was a fumble by a receiver, penalties, and/or drops.

People say he doesn't throw with anticipation. I see him do it all the time. I think his main problems have to do with his timing not necessarily being crisp yet, and falling in love with what he wants to do with the ball pre-snap, which can lead to defenses being able to adjust on him. But these are problems of youth, on a guy that threw and ran for 33 TDs in 2011 in a read-progression WCO.

I think a lot of people are over thinking this one, and getting caught up in all this "value" bull ****.

but you'd still take Weeden over him, eh?

DudeleBroski
03-22-2012, 02:50 PM
If he is going to sit this year and is a reach at 8 why not just trade our pick for a first+ in next years draft. This would give us ammo to move up and grab an elite prospect like Barkley. If you trade this years first for next years in hopes of trading up for barkley that would be a terrible business decision because there's no guarantee the team with the first pick would be willing to trade down. Then you'd be left sitting with no quarterback. People always seem to want to put off getting a quarterback until the next year as if its a luxury.

ckparrothead
03-22-2012, 04:06 PM
but you'd still take Weeden over him, eh?

Yes. But it's very close.

rev kev
03-22-2012, 05:48 PM
Yes. But it's very close.

CK -Who would you take with the #8 OA would you take Tanny over Weeden?

Valandui
03-22-2012, 06:20 PM
I think you have to be careful when tossing around the word "raw" with respect to Ryan Tannehill. I think some people have a good bead on exactly where Ryan Tannehill is under-developed. For example, when TedSlimmJr brings up Tannehill's lack of feel for when Tannehill can use his natural athleticism to do things the easy way rather than the hard way...that's a perfect example. Shows up all through Tannehill's tape. But I'm not comfortable referring to that as "raw" because it's a skill many pro quarterbacks lack. The shame of it comes purely from knowing that Ryan Tannehill DOES have this great 4.4x or low 4.5 speed at his disposal and if he gets the right angle he could get behind and beat an entire defense with that speed. It's something you can work on, an area of potential upside.

But otherwise, how is this guy raw? Does he rotate his hips perfectly into every throw? No. But neither does Andrew Luck, whose velocity is generated all from his arm and very little from his lower half. Does Ryan Tannehill sometimes fall in love with what he thinks is going to happen after the snap and try and push the ball in anyway? Yes, absolutely. So does just about every quarterback that isn't Aaron Rodgers. Andrew Luck does that, too.

But "raw" should be a term reserved for a guy whose throwing motion is not clean yet, who has the ball come off his hand inconsistently, who can't sense or deal with a pass rush in the pocket, who can't hit the broad side of a barn from an accuracy standpoint, who doesn't recognize coverages or get his team into the right plays before the snap, a guy whose feet are stiff and who ends up disconnecting his upper and lower halves for no real reason.

That's "raw," and none of it describes Ryan Tannehill.

Ryan Tannehill always has been and always will be a quarterback, in his mind. He was a high school quarterback, he's a college quarterback, the bulk of his experience is as a quarterback. But he was moved to wide receiver and unselfishly played that position (along with several special teams positions) for the good of the team. He practiced at wide receiver for 2.5 of his 4 playing years, yet he comes out with more polish than Jake Locker could show after a life time working at a shoe shine stand.

People are impatient with the guy because of 6 losses. But not all of those were on him. That "meltdown" in the second half of the Oklahoma State game consisted of two bad throws. That's it. That's the extent of Ryan Tannehill's ownership of Texas A&M's second half meltdown. One throw was on 3rd down and he had an open man over the middle, led him by about 3 feet too much, pass goes incomplete and the drive ends. You can't have that. Against Brandon Weeden, every drive counts. Other bad throw was a combination of factors. Texas A&M had already shown the Cowboys pass plays out of that tight Run & Shoot Double Slot formation (don't know what else to call it) on several occasions and so the defense had a good bead on Tannehill's read progression out of it. They took advantage and lined up with a 3-man DL with one DE hand up showing blitz to the side where Tannehill's first read would be to see if a defender is buzzing the flat. The flat defender had seen this play multiple times already and again buzzed the flat but this time he cheated and began bailing early to get depth so that he can rob the spot where you would normally find a hole between the cover two zones. The right tackle never picked up the defensive end that stood up before snap (big time protection breakdown), and Tannehill is left having to make the guy miss in the pocket, which he does. It delays the throw though, and Tannehill just sticks with what he thought was going to happen, ball gets picked off.

Otherwise, Tannehill threw two picks that weren't totally his fault. One he threw on a 12 yard out with perfect anticipation, which means the ball was out of his hands before Jeff Fuller had come out of his break. Problem is, when it came time for Fuller to come out of his break, he slipped and fell.


That is in no way, shape or form Ryan Tannehill's fault. That's an anticipation throw (which people say Tannehill can't do, for some reason), and it was purely on Fuller. The second pick he threw as he was driving for the win-or-tie in the final minutes, ball placement wasn't perfect but neither was the route, tipped up by Fuller and picked off by the DB. Other than that, when other second half drives ended, it was a fumble by a receiver, penalties, and/or drops.

People say he doesn't throw with anticipation. I see him do it all the time. I think his main problems have to do with his timing not necessarily being crisp yet, and falling in love with what he wants to do with the ball pre-snap, which can lead to defenses being able to adjust on him. But these are problems of youth, on a guy that threw and ran for 33 TDs in 2011 in a read-progression WCO.

I think a lot of people are over thinking this one, and getting caught up in all this "value" bull ****.
Thank you! You are way better at making these arguements than I am.

Shabam88
03-22-2012, 06:36 PM
He'll probably be available at 8, I don't see anyone in front of us taking except for maybe the Browns, but I don't think they will. I'd rather trade back and grab Michael Floyd mid-first than spend #8 on Tannehill

This.

The Goat
03-22-2012, 07:43 PM
I think you have to be careful when tossing around the word "raw" with respect to Ryan Tannehill. I think some people have a good bead on exactly where Ryan Tannehill is under-developed. For example, when TedSlimmJr brings up Tannehill's lack of feel for when Tannehill can use his natural athleticism to do things the easy way rather than the hard way...that's a perfect example. Shows up all through Tannehill's tape. But I'm not comfortable referring to that as "raw" because it's a skill many pro quarterbacks lack. The shame of it comes purely from knowing that Ryan Tannehill DOES have this great 4.4x or low 4.5 speed at his disposal and if he gets the right angle he could get behind and beat an entire defense with that speed. It's something you can work on, an area of potential upside.

But otherwise, how is this guy raw? Does he rotate his hips perfectly into every throw? No. But neither does Andrew Luck, whose velocity is generated all from his arm and very little from his lower half. Does Ryan Tannehill sometimes fall in love with what he thinks is going to happen after the snap and try and push the ball in anyway? Yes, absolutely. So does just about every quarterback that isn't Aaron Rodgers. Andrew Luck does that, too.

But "raw" should be a term reserved for a guy whose throwing motion is not clean yet, who has the ball come off his hand inconsistently, who can't sense or deal with a pass rush in the pocket, who can't hit the broad side of a barn from an accuracy standpoint, who doesn't recognize coverages or get his team into the right plays before the snap, a guy whose feet are stiff and who ends up disconnecting his upper and lower halves for no real reason.

That's "raw," and none of it describes Ryan Tannehill.

Ryan Tannehill always has been and always will be a quarterback, in his mind. He was a high school quarterback, he's a college quarterback, the bulk of his experience is as a quarterback. But he was moved to wide receiver and unselfishly played that position (along with several special teams positions) for the good of the team. He practiced at wide receiver for 2.5 of his 4 playing years, yet he comes out with more polish than Jake Locker could show after a life time working at a shoe shine stand.

People are impatient with the guy because of 6 losses. But not all of those were on him. That "meltdown" in the second half of the Oklahoma State game consisted of two bad throws. That's it. That's the extent of Ryan Tannehill's ownership of Texas A&M's second half meltdown. One throw was on 3rd down and he had an open man over the middle, led him by about 3 feet too much, pass goes incomplete and the drive ends. You can't have that. Against Brandon Weeden, every drive counts. Other bad throw was a combination of factors. Texas A&M had already shown the Cowboys pass plays out of that tight Run & Shoot Double Slot formation (don't know what else to call it) on several occasions and so the defense had a good bead on Tannehill's read progression out of it. They took advantage and lined up with a 3-man DL with one DE hand up showing blitz to the side where Tannehill's first read would be to see if a defender is buzzing the flat. The flat defender had seen this play multiple times already and again buzzed the flat but this time he cheated and began bailing early to get depth so that he can rob the spot where you would normally find a hole between the cover two zones. The right tackle never picked up the defensive end that stood up before snap (big time protection breakdown), and Tannehill is left having to make the guy miss in the pocket, which he does. It delays the throw though, and Tannehill just sticks with what he thought was going to happen, ball gets picked off.

Otherwise, Tannehill threw two picks that weren't totally his fault. One he threw on a 12 yard out with perfect anticipation, which means the ball was out of his hands before Jeff Fuller had come out of his break. Problem is, when it came time for Fuller to come out of his break, he slipped and fell. That is in no way, shape or form Ryan Tannehill's fault. That's an anticipation throw (which people say Tannehill can't do, for some reason), and it was purely on Fuller. The second pick he threw as he was driving for the win-or-tie in the final minutes, ball placement wasn't perfect but neither was the route, tipped up by Fuller and picked off by the DB. Other than that, when other second half drives ended, it was a fumble by a receiver, penalties, and/or drops.

People say he doesn't throw with anticipation. I see him do it all the time. I think his main problems have to do with his timing not necessarily being crisp yet, and falling in love with what he wants to do with the ball pre-snap, which can lead to defenses being able to adjust on him. But these are problems of youth, on a guy that threw and ran for 33 TDs in 2011 in a read-progression WCO.

I think a lot of people are over thinking this one, and getting caught up in all this "value" bull ****.

You, sir, are one of the best posters I have ever seen.

Thanks for this. I'm actually going to look at a lot more footage because of this post.

buxster07
03-22-2012, 07:50 PM
agrees, sweet post CK

The Goat
03-22-2012, 07:50 PM
Here's the real question, CK:

Do you think Weeden will be there in the 2nd for the Fins if they pass on Tannehill?

Phanatical
03-22-2012, 07:57 PM
Here's the real question, CK:

Do you think Weeden will be there in the 2nd for the Fins if they pass on Tannehill?

I don't. He's too good a prospect. I hope the Phins snag him at 8 or he'll be gone. Can they risk that, trying to get a QB in the second round, AGAIN? After all the top prospects are plucked away? You can't really REACH for a QB that becomes a franchise QB.

Phanatical
03-22-2012, 08:02 PM
Between Ryan Tannehill and Brandon Weeden, the only way you lose the game is by not playing. Take either one, and win.

I agree 100% CK. If they draft either one of them then this will be a successful draft.

The Goat
03-22-2012, 08:04 PM
I don't. He's too good a prospect. I hope the Phins snag him at 8 or he'll be gone. Can they risk that, trying to get a QB in the second round, AGAIN? After all the top prospects are plucked away? You can't really REACH for a QB that becomes a franchise QB.

I'm quoting this and moving it to the draft forum. I'm trying to figure out who will draft Weeden ahead of the Fins in the 2nd.

rev kev
03-22-2012, 08:08 PM
Here's the real question, CK:

Do you think Weeden will be there in the 2nd for the Fins if they pass on Tannehill?

Well if MIA pases on Tanny then that means that Cleveland - picks no. 22/37 has a chance to draft both before the Dolphins - pick no. 42 not to forget the other teams

The Goat
03-22-2012, 08:37 PM
Well if MIA pases on Tanny then that means that Cleveland - picks no. 22/37 has a chance to draft both before the Dolphins - pick no. 42 not to forget the other teams

See, I'll buy this. Here's where it gets fun. If CLEVELAND takes Tannehill at #4...

...what other teams are you referring to?

dr.jake
03-23-2012, 08:20 PM
Bah. I misread the poll. Yes, he will be there. No, we should not select him. Too much of a reach.

My dream scenario is that Cleveland drafts him at 4, and the other teams between at 5,6 and 7 choke on their own tongues, and Blackmon falls to us.


same here.i voted no to selecting him rather than will he be available. major reach for a lesser talent. i don't recall hearing the phrase "suck for tannehill or the tannehill sweepstakes" he's good second round backup value for somebody.i vote BPA!

houtz
03-23-2012, 08:28 PM
I'm just scared Ireland thinks he can trade back for Tanny or hold off until our spot in the second for Weeden. We may all be in luck and Ireland might pull off some ginger voodoo and nab us a QB and then use one the 3rds and maybe a 2nd to move back up.

X-Pacolypse
03-23-2012, 08:44 PM
He'll be there at #8. I can't see Cleveland passing on Trent Richardson.

Awsi Dooger
03-23-2012, 11:47 PM
I like Michael Irvin's viewpoint on stuff like this. You decide whether the guy is right for you or not, the market sets the price.

Jeff Ireland's approach requires everybody else to be wrong. Instead of aggressively winning the game by targeting someone and understanding the payoff is multiple times the risk if he's correct, Ireland embraces the worst possible tactic, refusing to bite unless he considers it an extreme bargain. I don't think he has any grasp of the burden of that method, particularly at the quarterback position. You need the league to go 1-31, with yours the only correct assessment.

It reminds me of the Storage Wars TV show on A&E. It took all of one episode for me to figure out that Dave Hester was the sharp speculator on that show, the one with unique insight in a mix of conventional wisdom clods. Hester understands there is value at the extremes. He'll invariably make sure he wins the high priced classy lockers, the ones that could be worth anything. Hester also grabs the near empty rooms; "If you can't risk $40 you won't be around long in this business."

The others fight over moderately priced rooms in a misplaced belief that the value lies there. They'll compete and take those lockers far too high while all but giving up when Hester targets a room with obvious gems, like one episode with new vending machines just sitting there throughout the locker.

The dynamics remind me exactly of fans and general managers who put too much faith in second rounders, foolishly believing it's akin to sneaking a first round talent at bargain rate, but actually a remarkable path to waste year after year while never conceding, or even suspecting, that the approach is flawed. The Hester method would be to outbid and demoralize the competition when a freakish quarterback talent is staring everyone in the face, while persistently looking for late round or free agent guys who don't cost anything but could turn into Romo or Flynn.

gregorygrant83
03-24-2012, 01:45 PM
If you take Tannehill in the top 10 you're saying he's a franchise qb and it takes you out of the QB market next year. You're not going to draft him this year and then chase Matt Barkey, Landry Jones or Tyler Wilson next year. If you don't think he's better than next years QB crop than you don't take him and wait. You can afford to miss on him later, but not in the top 10. If you're sold on him you have to take him at 8.

Pinkboy
03-28-2012, 09:01 AM
Jeff Ireland's approach requires everybody else to be wrong. Instead of aggressively winning the game by targeting someone and understanding the payoff is multiple times the risk if he's correct, Ireland embraces the worst possible tactic, refusing to bite unless he considers it an extreme bargain. I don't think he has any grasp of the burden of that method, particularly at the quarterback position. You need the league to go 1-31, with yours the only correct assessment.

It reminds me of the Storage Wars TV show on A&E. It took all of one episode for me to figure out that Dave Hester was the sharp speculator on that show, the one with unique insight in a mix of conventional wisdom clods. Hester understands there is value at the extremes. He'll invariably make sure he wins the high priced classy lockers, the ones that could be worth anything. Hester also grabs the near empty rooms; "If you can't risk $40 you won't be around long in this business."

The others fight over moderately priced rooms in a misplaced belief that the value lies there. They'll compete and take those lockers far too high while all but giving up when Hester targets a room with obvious gems, like one episode with new vending machines just sitting there throughout the locker.

The dynamics remind me exactly of fans and general managers who put too much faith in second rounders, foolishly believing it's akin to sneaking a first round talent at bargain rate, but actually a remarkable path to waste year after year while never conceding, or even suspecting, that the approach is flawed. The Hester method would be to outbid and demoralize the competition when a freakish quarterback talent is staring everyone in the face, while persistently looking for late round or free agent guys who don't cost anything but could turn into Romo or Flynn.

:hclap::hclap: