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View Full Version : Matt Moore was the 12th best QB in the NFL last season



LikeUntoGod
03-29-2012, 12:16 AM
I've been over at the Jet's Scout.com site, the greenandwhite.com site.

And I've been explaining in detail how Tebow had a better season then Sanchez did.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=65&f=1875&t=8829029&p=81

I guess we are all massive homers but considering that Sanchez has never did better then being rated the 23rd QB in the NFL, you wonder why they think he is so great.

Do some stat research I found not only where Tebow had a better season last year then Sanchez did, but in 2009 and 2010 that Chad Henne had better seasons then Sanchez did.

When I was really breaking down the stats, I could not help but notice that Matt Moore outplayed Sanchez in every aspect of the game.

So maybe we are not in as bad shape as we thought.......

If you're down and confused
And you don't remember why
These are the players we are talking to
Concentration slips away
Cos your franchise QB is so far away

[Chorus]
And give Ireland a fisted glove
And the seahawk craps from above
And if you can't have the QB
You love Dolphin Fans
Love the one you have

Don't be angry don't be sad
Don't sit crying over good
QBs you had
There's a player, right next to you
And he's just waiting for something
To do

[Chorus]

Calm down and do what you can
He's a QB and you're a fan
So get it together make it nice
And you won't need any more advice

[Chorus]

When Ireland is with another team
drafting a good QB will pick up steam
take him early like we should
and our chances will then be good

dlockz
03-29-2012, 12:19 AM
and the year before he was like the 50th ranked qb in the league so lets see what he does this year.

fishbanger
03-29-2012, 12:21 AM
I rather have the 13th ranked QB and make the playoffs.

SebastianTheFin
03-29-2012, 01:02 AM
I love the "Love The One You're With" re-imagination.

Casas9425
03-29-2012, 01:29 AM
He's the new Kyle Orton, puts up good stats in meaningless games but can't deliver in big spots. And much like Orton he'll fall apart without Brandon Marshall catching his floaters.

CANDolphan
03-29-2012, 01:33 AM
I rather have the 13th ranked QB and make the playoffs.

Either this post is brilliant and I agree or you're talking like most idiots who think playoff hopes are entirely about the QB and not the rest of the team

Jeep
03-29-2012, 01:44 AM
Screw the 12th best.. I got spoiled with Dan Marino and I wont be happy until we have the #1 best QB in the league again.. until then, all the QB's with the fish on their helmets are just pretenders..

Harry_Bagpipe
03-29-2012, 06:56 AM
Having a mediocre qb who rates higher than a bottom tier qb in sanchez doesn't make me feel good about the position.

Kdawg954
03-29-2012, 08:04 AM
He was good last year, especially after the first couple of games. He also displayed touch on the deep ball that we haven't seen down here in quite some time. I definitely think Matt Moore is a big reason why we aren't panicking at the QB position, and that is a good thing. You take your swing at Peyton and you bring in Flynn because you know he can add competition and is familiar with the system, but in prior years we may have thrown him 10 million and we wouldn't even be sure if he can take that next step. David Garrard is a proven guy who seems ideal for a west coast offense. Sure at his age he is no long term answer, but I like the move. Now we see what plans we have for the draft and move forward.

There was only one franchise QB available, and Miami dropped everything to look into him, even when the interest wasn't really that mutual . . . everybody else was a few steps down, and in the end, Matt Moore is probably an elevated step over the rest (factoring contract into this equation as well).

I can overlook not going QB early in this draft as well, but if the pick is a lineman at 8, I can't even defend that. Get a skill position playmaker on offense or defense. No linemen.

vagrantprodigy
03-29-2012, 08:11 AM
Moore wasn't the 12th best. You aren't factoring in his amazing amount of fumbles. ESPN QBR has him at #17, which is about right. Interestingly, though Henne didn't play enough games to secure a spot in the rankings, his number grade was like 5 or 6 points higher than Moore's.

finfan54
03-29-2012, 08:19 AM
moore will get much better under philbin and a full offseason.

Kdawg954
03-29-2012, 08:27 AM
Moore wasn't the 12th best. You aren't factoring in his amazing amount of fumbles. ESPN QBR has him at #17, which is about right. Interestingly, though Henne didn't play enough games to secure a spot in the rankings, his number grade was like 5 or 6 points higher than Moore's.

Henne would have been interesting under Philbin and his offense, but from a PR standpoint there was no way in hell you could bring him back. That ship has sailed and it is the best for both parties that Chad found another team. It would not shock me to see him have some success down if Jville if Gabbert still looks shaky this offseason. Chad Henne won't get outworked.

nyjunc
03-29-2012, 08:33 AM
anyone who thinks Matt Moore was the 12th best QB last year and Sanchez has never been better than 23 knows absolutely nothing about this game.

hooshoops
03-29-2012, 08:36 AM
you can talk yourself into matt moore being a top 12 qb if you want to...me...not happening

b/t jax will be getting a new qb with its top pick in the 2013 draft...book it

LANGER72
03-29-2012, 09:47 AM
Moore wasn't the 12th best. You aren't factoring in his amazing amount of fumbles. ESPN QBR has him at #17, which is about right. Interestingly, though Henne didn't play enough games to secure a spot in the rankings, his number grade was like 5 or 6 points higher than Moore's.

The problem with Henne was that he choked inside the twenties. We were kicking too many field goals, meanwhile Moore was #2 on plays over 20 yards, including lots of long TD passes. Moore was clearly better than Henne with the same players.
Sanchez has been holding the Jets back since he got there. I hope Sparano can help him take another step backward.

Klenton66
03-29-2012, 10:10 AM
He's the new Kyle Orton, puts up good stats in meaningless games but can't deliver in big spots. And much like Orton he'll fall apart without Brandon Marshall catching his floaters.
Moore was 12th ranked behind the 30th ranked offensive line, and Brandon Marshall was not dependable. With Columbo at RT I can imagine ANY QB being anxious. I think Gerrard and Moore can be very effective QBs. I would love to be able to get a true franchise quarterback, but if we have no shot at one, don't spend a lot of money on one that your not sure of, just so you can please the fan base. I might be the only one, but I am happy with the offseason so far. Even if I wasn't, I still am a dolphin fan, I can't turn it off. I have been a fan since I was 5yrs old. At 46, I don't see how I could stop being one. I do think Philbin is very impressive, the more I hear him and his explanations, the better I understand the moves so far.

Harry_Bagpipe
03-29-2012, 10:16 AM
you can talk yourself into matt moore being a top 12 qb if you want to...me...not happening

b/t jax will be getting a new qb with its top pick in the 2013 draft...book it

Yep. I think so. Gabbert is garbage. IMO

foozool13
03-29-2012, 10:22 AM
Brady, Newton, Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben, E. Manning, P. Manning, Flacco, Rivers, Stafford, Dalton, Vick, Romo, Cutler,...Nope, he's not the 12th best QB.

Harry_Bagpipe
03-29-2012, 10:29 AM
Brady, Newton, Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben, E. Manning, P. Manning, Flacco, Rivers, Stafford, Dalton, Vick, Romo, Cutler,...Nope, he's not the 12th best QB.

Schaub, Ryan, Bradford, hasselbeck.......we can still go on

Vaark
03-29-2012, 10:45 AM
anyone who thinks Matt Moore was the 12th best QB last year and Sanchez has never been better than 23 knows absolutely nothing about this game.

Anyone who thinks that Sanchez wouldn't continue to be sulking, but with a clipboard in his hands if on any team not named "the jest" is seeing reality through the prism of thick green-tinted lenses.

hooshoops
03-29-2012, 10:47 AM
dalton is not a top 12 nfl qb...

nyjunc
03-29-2012, 10:48 AM
Anyone who thinks that Sanchez wouldn't continue to be sulking, but with a clipboard in his hands if on any team not named "the jest" is seeing reality through the prism of thick green-tinted lenses.

your unhealthy Jets obsession continues...

rev kev
03-29-2012, 10:51 AM
He's the new Kyle Orton, puts up good stats in meaningless games but can't deliver in big spots. And much like Orton he'll fall apart without Brandon Marshall catching his floaters.

Agreed

Moore did not have to endure the meaningful games when the D was seive - he was playing with house money and never delilvered on a big game - he can play a strong back up position - he can play with the short field the D giave him

So yes when the D was stout - it seemed to raise his own confidence and the entire O but the Dallas game was oh so telling... He cannot take over a game

---------- Post added at 08:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 AM ----------


your unhealthy Jets obsession continues...

How you making out in the brackets?

Harry_Bagpipe
03-29-2012, 10:53 AM
Ack. Don't mention brackets. I'm the idiot who had Missouri.

NYPhin24
03-29-2012, 10:54 AM
your unhealthy Jets obsession continues...

so is your Dolphins/Finheaven obsession, of course the second a thread pops up with anything positive Dolphins related, in comes Junc to make a negative remark to downplay the entire thing and eventually turn the thread into a 13-17 page same argument about Sanchez and eventually out comes the "back to back title games" and here we go again......it literally never ends

Harry_Bagpipe
03-29-2012, 10:57 AM
Sigh. Well heres another thread I probably wont be clicking on anymore

rev kev
03-29-2012, 10:59 AM
Moore wasn't the 12th best. You aren't factoring in his amazing amount of fumbles. ESPN QBR has him at #17, which is about right. Interestingly, though Henne didn't play enough games to secure a spot in the rankings, his number grade was like 5 or 6 points higher than Moore's.

It really doesn't matter - Henne is gone and Moore can put this team on his shoulders with or without out a stout D although the FACTS say just the opposite

---------- Post added at 08:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 AM ----------


Ack. Don't mention brackets. I'm the idiot who had Missouri. You weren't the only one - Great Sig BTW

nyjunc
03-29-2012, 11:11 AM
Agreed

Moore did not have to endure the meaningful games when the D was seive - he was playing with house money and never delilvered on a big game - he can play a strong back up position - he can play with the short field the D giave him

So yes when the D was stout - it seemed to raise his own confidence and the entire O but the Dallas game was oh so telling... He cannot take over a game

---------- Post added at 08:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 AM ----------



How you making out in the brackets?

finheaven or NCAA? either way I was robbed!:D


so is your Dolphins/Finheaven obsession, of course the second a thread pops up with anything positive Dolphins related, in comes Junc to make a negative remark to downplay the entire thing and eventually turn the thread into a 13-17 page same argument about Sanchez and eventually out comes the "back to back title games" and here we go again......it literally never ends

I speak the truth, sorry if it offends you. Would you feel better if I lied to you?


Sigh. Well heres another thread I probably wont be clicking on anymore

That's good news for the board!

AdamC13
03-29-2012, 11:28 AM
OP is clearly confusing finishing 12th in QB rating with being the 12th best QB...two different things. For example:

Moore's 87.1 QB rating and 16 TD passes / 9 interception
Cam Newton's 84.5 QB rating and 21 TD passes / 17 interceptions.

Add in rushing TDs and lost fumbles and:

Moore: 18 TD / 15 turnovers
Newton: 35 TD / 19 turnovers

KTOWNFINFAN
03-29-2012, 11:30 AM
anyone who thinks Matt Moore was the 12th best QB last year and Sanchez has never been better than 23 knows absolutely nothing about this game.

Anyone who thinks Sanchez has ever been a top 20 QB in this league knows absolutely NOTHING about this game.

nyjunc
03-29-2012, 11:35 AM
Anyone who thinks Sanchez has ever been a top 20 QB in this league knows absolutely NOTHING about this game.

I'll trust what my eyes tell me, you stick to looking at QB ratings

LikeUntoGod
03-29-2012, 11:37 AM
Wow, my bad about trying to post a positive thread. (what was I thinking....)

I'm just using the stats at NFL.com (and they know nothing about football Jet's fans)

IMO, since Matt Moore came in late, had few practice reps and then had such a good season when he had to become the starter is a "good thing".

Since the Dolphin have never had a QB competition that I can remember, I'd like to see if we really have one between Garrard and Moore.

P.S. The only QB competition I remember was between Luke McCown and Chad Henne and it ended the second that Chad Pennington was signed.

Kdawg954
03-29-2012, 11:55 AM
Wow, my bad about trying to post a positive thread. (what was I thinking....)

I'm just using the stats at NFL.com (and they know nothing about football Jet's fans)

IMO, since Matt Moore came in late, had few practice reps and then had such a good season when he had to become the starter is a "good thing".

Since the Dolphin have never had a QB competition that I can remember, I'd like to see if we really have one between Garrard and Moore.

P.S. The only QB competition I remember was between Luke McCown and Chad Henne and it ended the second that Chad Pennington was signed.

I actually think John Beck was the favorite early on with his 10,000 throws in the offseason, but Henne looked better pretty much from day one and when Pennington signed they traded Luke for a 7th and let Beck hold the clipboard.

LikeUntoGod
03-29-2012, 12:30 PM
I actually think John Beck was the favorite early on with his 10,000 throws in the offseason, but Henne looked better pretty much from day one and when Pennington signed they traded Luke for a 7th and let Beck hold the clipboard.

I forgot we even had Beck.

If you're down and confused
And you don't remember why
These are the players we are talking to
Concentration slips away
Cos your franchise QB is so far away

[Chorus]
And give Ireland a fisted glove
And the seahawk craps from above
And if you can't have the QB
You love Dolphin Fans
Love the one you have

Don't be angry don't be sad
Don't sit crying over good
QBs you had
There's a player, right next to you
And he's just waiting for something
To do

[Chorus]

Calm down and do what you can
He's a QB and you're a fan
So get it together make it nice
And you won't need any more advice

[Chorus]

When Ireland is with another team
drafting a good QB will pick up steam
take him early like we should
and our chances will then be good

Vaark
03-29-2012, 12:58 PM
your unhealthy Jets obsession continues...

Likewise your unrealistic grasp of reality intensifies when it comes to a team that has logged a legitimate single respectable (but not great) season out of the last 3

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/03/34eoyn4-1.jpg

nyjunc
03-29-2012, 01:55 PM
4 playoff wins in the last 3 seasons, you have 3 playoff wins in your last SEVENTEEN seasons but please keep sending those excuses and wasting time w/ unfunny, 3rd grade style photoshops.

Vaark
03-29-2012, 02:26 PM
4 playoff wins in the last 3 seasons, you have 3 playoff wins in your last SEVENTEEN seasons but please keep sending those excuses and wasting time w/ unfunny, 3rd grade style photoshops.

While I understand most everyone here understands that "what you see with your own eyes" is filtered by some pretty thick homer green tinted lenses, nonetheless, just letting you believe anyone takes your conveniently parsed pro jest rationalizations seriously, is frustrating but correcting your delusions ad nauseum has become fatiguing as well.

So heretofore, when you attempt to spin your ridiculously, flawed homeristic 3rd grade level logic that the jest have had more than 1 legitimately good season where they actually earned anything beyond that during Rex's watch, or the BS that the sub-par 09 team could have beaten Indy at any time, let alone the 08 Ravens, or for that matter that the Cinci team it faced was anything other than a joke, I have encapsulated reality into a graphic which from here on will be posted to debunk the BS without further comment.

So while you can spin this type of distorted hype about the worthiness of your coaching staff, the "elite" crap about a team that has 1 legitimate winning season and still could not carry their division, get used to this No-Spin Zone heavy dose of reality.

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/05/34or7g8-1.jpg

nyjunc
03-29-2012, 02:32 PM
it's so sad how much effort you waste trying to discredit a team much better than the one you root for. If you put half that effort into learning this game we might be able to have an adult discussion.

What's really funny(unintentional, of course) is someone knocking the '09 Jets and pumping up the '08 phins.

NYPhin24
03-29-2012, 02:41 PM
it's so sad how much effort you waste trying to discredit a team much better than the one you root for. If you put half that effort into learning this game we might be able to have an adult discussion.

What's really funny(unintentional, of course) is someone knocking the '09 Jets and pumping up the '08 phins.

yes so much better.....2 whole games better than a team that spotted the jets an 0-7 start, and that "much better" jets team lost to that "worse" Dolphins team in the game that mattered most in the Jets season, and SO much better that they had to bring one of the only few QBs with a worse completition percentage and QB rating than Sanchez to "push him" you know because great franchise QBs like Brady and Manning and Brees are always needing to be pushed by QBs that throw for 80 yards a half with a less than 50% completiton percentage

nobody is "pumping" the 08' Phins, posters on this site consistently point out that fact that it was a weak schedule and Brady was injured, and dont brag about a playoff loss like you who "pumps" back to back afc title game LOSSES in almost every post you make,

nyjunc
03-29-2012, 02:45 PM
yes so much better.....2 whole games better than a team that spotted the jets an 0-7 start, and that "much better" jets team lost to that "worse" Dolphins team in the game that mattered most in the Jets season, and SO much better that they had to bring one of the only few QBs with a worse completition percentage and QB rating than Sanchez to "push him" you know because great franchise QBs like Brady and Manning and Brees are always needing to be pushed by QBs that throw for 80 yards a half with a less than 50% completiton percentage

nobody is "pumping" the 08' Phins, posters on this site consistently point out that fact that it was a weak schedule and Brady was injured, and dont brag about a playoff loss like you who "pumps" back to back afc title game LOSSES in almost every post you make,

The last 3 years the Jets have won 8 more games than Miami, 12 more if you include postseason. The Jets have been MUCH better.

Losses don't coutn at 0-7? b/c you finished better in meaningless games that means something?

tebow isn't pushing Sanchez, he's in here to run a package of plays. Did you know GB was interested in tebow?

back to back title game losses means we won 4 playoff games, 4 road playoff games. The 4 games are more than Miami has in the last 17 years, that's 1 more road playoff win than Miami has in their history. It's ok to credit a div rival, it's ok to tip your cap once in a while.

LikeUntoGod
03-29-2012, 04:29 PM
Me thinks that my thread was Hi-Jacked!

Harry_Bagpipe
03-29-2012, 04:38 PM
Me thinks that my thread was Hi-Jacked!

An all to common occurrence around here. Any chance the mods can make a broken record, merged super thread. Lol

Phanatical
03-29-2012, 08:16 PM
The last 3 years the Jets have won 8 more games than Miami, 12 more if you include postseason. The Jets have been MUCH better.....

Yet despite being "MUCH" better, they've lost four out of the last six times they've played the Phins. Your thinking is flawed.

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 08:28 AM
Yet despite being "MUCH" better, they've lost four out of the last six times they've played the Phins. Your thinking is flawed.

taking out Jets-Dolphins games the Jets are 26-16 and Miami is 16-26

for whatever reason Miami has played us well but they can't beat anyone else.

LikeUntoGod
03-30-2012, 08:38 AM
Hey Hey, You You, get off of my thread!

LANGER72
03-30-2012, 08:46 AM
We need a troll repellant emotocon:hitit:

NY8123
03-30-2012, 08:48 AM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/03/l-1.png

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 09:04 AM
I didn't take the discussion off topic, I came in and stated a fact- Matt Moore is not and never has been a top 12 QB in this league. Sorry if the truth hurts.

NYPhin24
03-30-2012, 10:22 AM
I didn't take the discussion off topic, I came in and stated a fact- Matt Moore is not and never has been a top 12 QB in this league. Sorry if the truth hurts.

a fact that you can NOT prove just as we cant prove it is true, its a ranking based off numbers nothing more, it was brought up to be discussed, nobody said "yes he is a top 12 QB that is a FACT", however you come in right away and make blunt statements that you call "fact" and just expect us to say "oh okay junc your right, what were we thinking trying to have a discussion about a Dolphins QB, should have asked the gang green forum first"

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 10:27 AM
a fact that you can NOT prove just as we cant prove it is true, its a ranking based off numbers nothing more, it was brought up to be discussed, nobody said "yes he is a top 12 QB that is a FACT", however you come in right away and make blunt statements that you call "fact" and just expect us to say "oh okay junc your right, what were we thinking trying to have a discussion about a Dolphins QB, should have asked the gang green forum first"

It's a fact, we don't use QB ratings to judge QBs- at least those that understand the game. He's closer to the 12th best QB in the division than he is the 12th best in the league. he's a nice backup QB and if you can find your QB of the future in the draft he is a perfect stop gap guy but he's not a long term starter in this league. Just watch him play.

Mcganiel
03-30-2012, 11:18 AM
HE HAD THE 12TH BEST QB RATING IN THE NFL LAST YEAR. SO BY QB RATING HE WAS 12TH BEST LAST YEAR. I use Qb ratings all the time, what do you think they created the rating for nothing. Yeah and go watch him, he looked great on tape. Stop the blind hate...

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 11:21 AM
HE HAD THE 12TH BEST QB RATING IN THE NFL LAST YEAR. SO BY QB RATING HE WAS 12TH BEST LAST YEAR. I use Qb ratings all the time, what do you think they created the rating for nothing. Yeah and go watch him, he looked great on tape. Stop the blind hate...

Your first mistake is to judge based solely on QB rating, he played well whent he team was out of it but terribly when they still had somewhat of a chance.

Harry_Bagpipe
03-30-2012, 11:28 AM
HE HAD THE 12TH BEST QB RATING IN THE NFL LAST YEAR. SO BY QB RATING HE WAS 12TH BEST LAST YEAR. I use Qb ratings all the time, what do you think they created the rating for nothing. Yeah and go watch him, he looked great on tape. Stop the blind hate...

You dont understand. Its all about Sanchez with him. Any information or data that shows a negative light on Sanchez will be dismissed while information or data that might show him in more of a positive light will be propped up. Trust me, if Sanchez had a good QB rating, he would be using it as the end all be all in terms of quarterback productivity. His thought process is backwards. Whereas most people look at the information and data first and then draw conclusions from it, he does the exact opposite. From day one he came to the conclusion that Sanchez was their franchise qb. His conclusion was already preordained. He then selects, twists, manipulates and distorts the information to suit his conclusion. He arbitrarily decides which data should hold relevance and which shouldnt and thats completely dependant on which makes Sanchez looks the best

Vaark
03-30-2012, 11:33 AM
Fact: Anyone who doesn't think Tannenbaum wouldn't now take a Mulligan if he could on that #5 reach in 09 is either drunk on Taco's love juice or sees the world thru a homer prism. Ditto anyone who thinks he can start on any other team in the league :idk:

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 11:36 AM
You dont understand. Its all about Sanchez with him. Any information or data that shows a negative light on Sanchez will be dismissed while information or data that might show him in more of a positive light will be propped up. Trust me, if Sanchez had a good QB rating, he would be using it as the end all be all in terms of quarterback productivity. His thought process is backwards. Whereas most people look at the information and data first and then draw conclusions from it, he does the exact opposite. From day one he came to the conclusion that Sanchez was their franchise qb. His conclusion was already preordained. He then selects, twists, manipulates and distorts the information to suit his conclusion. He arbitrarily decides which data should hold relevance and which shouldnt and thats completely dependant on which makes Sanchez looks the best

Sanchez was better statistically this year than last year- by a lot but did you see me crowing about how much he improved? why is that? some people rely 100% on stats, others use them as a tool but can see the big picture.

do you post in any other threads besides the ones that you attack me in?

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 11:40 AM
Fact: Anyone who doesn't think Tannenbaum wouldn't now take a Mulligan if he could on that #5 reach in 09 is either drunk on Taco's love juice or sees the world thru a homer prism. Ditto anyone who thinks he can start on any other team in the league :idk:

yeah, he got a franchise QB for essentally a 2nd rd pick and that QB helped them reach 2 title games but he'd pick someone else. perhaps the great Josh Freeman?

Vaark
03-30-2012, 11:47 AM
yeah, he got a franchise QB for essentally a 2nd rd pick and that QB helped them reach 2 title games but he'd pick someone else. perhaps the great Josh Freeman?

Absolutely: he's had 2 respectable years vs one for Sanchez, in 10 did much more with less, actually carrying his team (what a refreshing concept!) , is a helluva lot less sensitive, doesn't pout, cry or sulk, much mentally tougher, still has the respect and confidence of his teammates, and hasn't even come close to plateauing. No brainer! Freeman at 17 where the jest should have taken him was just right; Sanchez at 25 might have still been a reach!

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 11:58 AM
Absolutely: he's had 2 respectable years vs one for Sanchez, in 10 did much more with less, actually carrying his team (what a refreshing concept!) , is a helluva lot less sensitive, doesn't pout, cry or sulk, much mentally tougher, still has the respect and confidence of his teammates, and hasn't even come close to plateauing. No brainer! Freeman at 17 where the jest should have taken him was just right; Sanchez at 25 might have still been a reach!

I like Freeman but he had one nice stat year w/ no pressure to win, he finally had pressure to win this year and was worse thana ny of sanchez's years.

Freeman carried his team to zero playoff apps and zero meaningful wins- congrats to him for that!

Mage_Phin
03-30-2012, 12:01 PM
yeah, he got a franchise QB for essentally a 2nd rd pick and that QB helped them reach 2 title games but he'd pick someone else. perhaps the great Josh Freeman?

Franchise QB :lol:

Wildbill3
03-30-2012, 12:05 PM
and the year before he was like the 50th ranked qb in the league so lets see what he does this year.and the year before that he was number 8. so... yeah perhaps we really should see what he does this year.

NBP81
03-30-2012, 12:08 PM
I think there's a virus in this thread...?

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 12:17 PM
and the year before that he was number 8. so... yeah perhaps we really should see what he does this year.

Here's what we know:

in 2009 w/ Carolina out of the race Moore was 4-1 as a starter and threw 8 TDs w/ 1 INT
in 2010 as Carolina opening day starter he was 1-4 w/ 5 TDs and 10 INTs
in 2011 w/ Miami still somewhat in it at 0-3 he led them to the loss at SD then went 0-3 as a starter throwing 1 TD w/ 4 INTs, after the season was over at 0-7 he led them to a record of 6-3 w/ 15 TDs and 5 INTs

If he gives you confidence he can help a winning team then good luck w/ that.

Wildbill3
03-30-2012, 12:24 PM
Here's what we know:

in 2009 w/ Carolina out of the race Moore was 4-1 as a starter and threw 8 TDs w/ 1 INT
in 2010 as Carolina opening day starter he was 1-4 w/ 5 TDs and 10 INTs
in 2011 w/ Miami still somewhat in it at 0-3 he led them to the loss at SD then went 0-3 as a starter throwing 1 TD w/ 4 INTs, after the season was over at 0-7 he led them to a record of 6-3 w/ 15 TDs and 5 INTs

If he gives you confidence he can help a winning team then good luck w/ that.without your defense does sanchez inspire you with his sub 60 percent completion ratio and below 75 career QBR? that carolina team was absolutely horrible with and withouth moore's poor play they were completely devoid of coaching and talent. what's sanchez's excuse?

Vaark
03-30-2012, 12:29 PM
without your defense does sanchez inspire you with his sub 60 percent completion ratio and below 75 career QBR? that carolina team was absolutely horrible with and withouth moore's poor play they were completely devoid of coaching and talent. what's sanchez's excuse?

That's the point, it's hard to stay silent when an outsider inserts himself to criticize Moore when hypocritically he's still championing what's dawned on most everyone and finally many jest fans as the worst starting QB in the league. :idk:

Wildbill3
03-30-2012, 12:35 PM
That's the point, it's hard to stay silent when an outsider inserts himself to criticize Moore when hypocritically he's still championing what's dawned on most everyone and finally many jest fans as the worst starting QB in the league. :idk:

yeah, hard to find the golden lining to a qb who's rated 28th, 23rd, 27th the last 3 years.

utahphinsfan
03-30-2012, 12:41 PM
I think there's a virus in this thread...?

No. Its just full of Junk.

luduporcu
03-30-2012, 12:43 PM
He's the new Kyle Orton, puts up good stats in meaningless games but can't deliver in big spots. And much like Orton he'll fall apart without Brandon Marshall catching his floaters.

Not true at all. As long as COLUMBO-CAREY existed, it cost MIAMI losses. Throw in "The Meatball", a totally unready HC, together w/the lingering stench of PARCELLSBALL, and there's a major problem...and it isn't named MOORE, or even HENNE. Everything matters, Casas: EVERYTHING.

Harry_Bagpipe
03-30-2012, 12:44 PM
yeah, hard to find the golden lining to a qb who's rated 28th, 23rd, 27th the last 3 years.

You forget though. The only one who is objective and rational enough to arbitrarily decide which stats should be held to a higher value than others and which regular season games aribitrarily mean more than others and therefore should hold a higher value in evalutating qb play, is a jets fan who has hitched his horse to the sanchez wagon since day one.

luduporcu
03-30-2012, 12:49 PM
Screw the 12th best.. I got spoiled with Dan Marino and I wont be happy until we have the #1 best QB in the league again.. until then, all the QB's with the fish on their helmets are just pretenders..

How many SBs did MARINO win, again? I/m/o, he's a feel-good, "stats" oriented failure. MIAMI went to one SB w/him, and we lost. All this w/one of the best HCs ever.

LikeUntoGod
03-30-2012, 12:59 PM
Sanchez was better statistically this year than last year- by a lot but did you see me crowing about how much he improved? why is that? some people rely 100% on stats, others use them as a tool but can see the big picture.



Find, since you must turn my Matt Moore thread into a Mark Sanchez thread, lets talk about him.

In 2009 Sanchez had a QB rating of 63.0 which made him the 28th QB in the NFL (Behind Chad Henne at 22)
In 2010 Sanchez had a QB rating of 75.3 which made him the 27th QB in the NFL (Behind Chad Henne at 26)
In 2011 Sanchez had a QB rating of 78.2 which made him the 23th QB in the NFL (Behind Matt Moore at 12)

Sanchez has always been condiered the starter for the Jets so he has always gooten almost all the training camp, preseason and during the season practice snaps.

On the other hand, Matt Moore and Tim Tebow both did not.

In 2011, Matt Moore was clearly better then Mark Sanchez in every area. From completion percentage, to yards per attempt to touchdowns per attempts, completions over 20 and over 40 yards. It is not even close or up for debate.

But there are a lot of people (including most Jets fans) who think Sanchez had a better season then Tebow did. They are wrong.

Tebow did have a lower QB rating of 72.9 (still better then Sanchez's first season) and his completion percentage was lower at 46.5%.

But let us go into the stats. Remembering that Tebow had no training camp and did not start or take practice reps till the 5th game and that the Broncos traded away their most experienced WR in Brandon Lloyd.

Here are the numbers broken down by attempts.

Sanchez and Tebow both had a 6.4 yards per attempt average (Moore's was 7.2 for example)

Sanchez threw for a touchdown every 20.8 attempts.
Tebow threw for a touchdown every 22.5 attempts.

Sanchez threw a interception every 30.1 attempts.
Tebow threw a interception every 46.1 attempts.

Sanchez completed a over 20 yard pass every 13.9 attempts.
Tebow completed a over 20 yard pass every 10.8 attempts.

Sanchez completed a over 40 yard pass every 271.5 attempts.
Tebow completed a over 40 yard pass every 45.1 attempts.

(once again, Matt Moore beat all these numbers)

But for me, the best way to contrast the two QB is in the head to head meeting.

On Nov 17th, 2011, the Jets played the Broncos.

Sanchez was 24 out of 40 for 252 yards. Tebow was only 9 for 20 for only 104 yards.

Which QB helped his team more?

If you look at the game log you see that Sanchez in the 3rd Qtr threw a interception that Andre Goodman returned for a touchdown.

With 5:54 left in the game. Tebow took the Broncos on a 12 play, 95 yard drive and finished it with a 20 yard run for the winning touchdown.

So which QB had a better day?

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=3111 17007

Thanks for playing and please start your own "I love Sanchez thread".

Your Bud; LUG

Harry_Bagpipe
03-30-2012, 01:06 PM
Eh lug. Your arguing with someone whos just gonna say that you can't just look at the stats and you have to look at the big picture and numbers don't tell the whole story etc etc etc and will then think he won the argument. So all those stats you posted, I'm afraid are in a wasted effort. I posted how qbr is mathematically one of the most telling stats in terms of teams success. I used numbers going back 40 years. It was simply dismissed because it didn't fit a certain agenda. You can't argue with people like that

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 01:15 PM
without your defense does sanchez inspire you with his sub 60 percent completion ratio and below 75 career QBR? that carolina team was absolutely horrible with and withouth moore's poor play they were completely devoid of coaching and talent. what's sanchez's excuse?


That's the point, it's hard to stay silent when an outsider inserts himself to criticize Moore when hypocritically he's still championing what's dawned on most everyone and finally many jest fans as the worst starting QB in the league. :idk:

I have never once said the D wasn't vital in our wins but even w/ the greatest defenses(our D hasn't been a truly dominat D) you need quality QB play to win.

So Moore carried them, so the team that was 12-4 in '08 all of a sudden was horrible until the great Matt Moore lifted them up? why couldn't he do it in 2010? Jonathan Stewart & Deangelo Williams not good enough? you don't like Steve Smith?

If Sanchez is the worst starting QB in the lague we mist have had the best team around the QB in the league to reach 2 title games so we know that isn't true but keep spouting off your insane jealous ramblings


yeah, hard to find the golden lining to a qb who's rated 28th, 23rd, 27th the last 3 years.

It's a good thing we are smart enough football fans to not judge based solely on QB rating.

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 01:19 PM
Eh lug. Your arguing with someone whos just gonna say that you can't just look at the stats and you have to look at the big picture and numbers don't tell the whole story etc etc etc and will then think he won the argument. So all those stats you posted, I'm afraid are in a wasted effort. I posted how qbr is mathematically one of the most telling stats in terms of teams success. I used numbers going back 40 years. It was simply dismissed because it didn't fit a certain agenda. You can't argue with people like that

I assume you think Chad Pennington, Matt Schaub, Daunte Culpepper & Jeff Garcia were better than Dan Marino? they had a better career rating than Dan so they must be better, right? This is why we don't judge based only on stats and ratings. Maybe some day you will get it.

ROADRUNNER
03-30-2012, 01:20 PM
Find, since you must turn my Matt Moore thread into a Mark Sanchez thread, lets talk about him.

In 2009 Sanchez had a QB rating of 63.0 which made him the 28th QB in the NFL (Behind Chad Henne at 22)
In 2010 Sanchez had a QB rating of 75.3 which made him the 27th QB in the NFL (Behind Chad Henne at 26)
In 2011 Sanchez had a QB rating of 78.2 which made him the 23th QB in the NFL (Behind Matt Moore at 12)

Sanchez has always been condiered the starter for the Jets so he has always gooten almost all the training camp, preseason and during the season practice snaps.

On the other hand, Matt Moore and Tim Tebow both did not.

In 2011, Matt Moore was clearly better then Mark Sanchez in every area. From completion percentage, to yards per attempt to touchdowns per attempts, completions over 20 and over 40 yards. It is not even close or up for debate.

But there are a lot of people (including most Jets fans) who think Sanchez had a better season then Tebow did. They are wrong.

Tebow did have a lower QB rating of 72.9 (still better then Sanchez's first season) and his completion percentage was lower at 46.5%.

But let us go into the stats. Remembering that Tebow had no training camp and did not start or take practice reps till the 5th game and that the Broncos traded away their most experienced WR in Brandon Lloyd.

Here are the numbers broken down by attempts.

Sanchez and Tebow both had a 6.4 yards per attempt average (Moore's was 7.2 for example)

Sanchez threw for a touchdown every 20.8 attempts.
Tebow threw for a touchdown every 22.5 attempts.

Sanchez threw a interception every 30.1 attempts.
Tebow threw a interception every 46.1 attempts.

Sanchez completed a over 20 yard pass every 13.9 attempts.
Tebow completed a over 20 yard pass every 10.8 attempts.

Sanchez completed a over 40 yard pass every 271.5 attempts.
Tebow completed a over 40 yard pass every 45.1 attempts.

(once again, Matt Moore beat all these numbers)

But for me, the best way to contrast the two QB is in the head to head meeting.

On Nov 17th, 2011, the Jets played the Broncos.

Sanchez was 24 out of 40 for 252 yards. Tebow was only 9 for 20 for only 104 yards.

Which QB helped his team more?

If you look at the game log you see that Sanchez in the 3rd Qtr threw a interception that Andre Goodman returned for a touchdown.

With 5:54 left in the game. Tebow took the Broncos on a 12 play, 95 yard drive and finished it with a 20 yard run for the winning touchdown.

So which QB had a better day?

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=3111 17007

Thanks for playing and please start your own "I love Sanchez thread".

Your Bud; LUG

Great point's, but i still would go with Sanchez as a Q/B, But would go with Tebow as a football player, he has more to offer........

Wildbill3
03-30-2012, 01:25 PM
I assume you think Chad Pennington, Matt Schaub, Daunte Culpepper & Jeff Garcia were better than Dan Marino? they had a better career rating than Dan so they must be better, right? This is why we don't judge based only on stats and ratings. Maybe some day you will get it.career QBR is only useful if you're comparing apples to apples oranges to oranges, for instance Dan played most of his career when the running game and a strong defense won most of the championships, while those others you listed clearly came into there own as the league moved more into a pass first and let god sort them out. Also if you wanna go by career you should also make sure you're only adding up the number of years for the person with the least amount of years, and then only the years in which they clearly were a starter.

Vaark
03-30-2012, 01:31 PM
I have never once said the D wasn't vital in our wins but even w/ the greatest defenses(our D hasn't been a truly dominat D) you need quality QB play to win.

So Moore carried them, so the team that was 12-4 in '08 all of a sudden was horrible until the great Matt Moore lifted them up? why couldn't he do it in 2010? Jonathan Stewart & Deangelo Williams not good enough? you don't like Steve Smith?

If Sanchez is the worst starting QB in the lague we mist have had the best team around the QB in the league to reach 2 title games so we know that isn't true but keep spouting off your insane jealous ramblings



It's a good thing we are smart enough football fans to not judge based solely on QB rating.

FWIW, Cam Newton, who coming out was a much better QB than Sanchez is even now, did worse than Moore with an upgraded offense including 2 TE studs plus everyone you mentioned and his own legs as an additional weapon, not to mention a coach who cared and wasn't a lame duck going 1-5 and 2-10 vs Moore's 1-4 in 2010. So your argument is only relevent if you're wearing homer glasses. And as far as reaching 2 title games, doesn't that mean he also lost 2 title games? But you know, I will give him credit for a legitimate run in 2010 but even reaching the post season in 2009 was more due to Peyton Manning and Jim Caldwell so I won't even get into the competition before Peyton and Colts spanked and blanked Sanchez in the last 31 minutes when it actually counted.

Since you take such pride in losing big games, it's important to note that "winning 2 post season games" is the best the jest ever did, and that includes that farce of a 2 game post season 1969 superbowl "victory" so to that extent I'll grant you credit where due :idk:

Either Tim Tebow is a dummass or he's smart, you'll have to decide since obviously he felt he had a better chance of beating out Sanchez than Gabbert for the starter job. And if he thought he couldn't beat out arguably the worst QB in the league last season, what does that make Sanchez?

NYPhin24
03-30-2012, 01:31 PM
"so is your Dolphins/Finheaven obsession, of course the second a thread pops up with anything positive Dolphins related, in comes Junc to make a negative remark to downplay the entire thing and eventually turn the thread into a 13-17 page same argument about Sanchez and eventually out comes the "back to back title games" and here we go again......it literally never ends "

From Page 3, Post #25

unfortunatelty it is that predictable as we now are on the 8th page, already seen "title games" brought up, and back to a thread of debating Sanchez

Wildbill3
03-30-2012, 01:32 PM
Back to the who was a better QB than marino, perhaps the most telling stat on profootball focus is ... who was most like marino for his career...




Career

John Elway (http://www.finheaven.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm)*, Fran Tarkenton (http://www.finheaven.com/players/T/TarkFr00.htm)*, Johnny Unitas (http://www.finheaven.com/players/U/UnitJo00.htm)*, Brett Favre (http://www.finheaven.com/players/F/FavrBr00.htm), Joe Montana (http://www.finheaven.com/players/M/MontJo01.htm)*, Ken Anderson (http://www.finheaven.com/players/A/AndeKe00.htm), Warren Moon (http://www.finheaven.com/players/M/MoonWa00.htm)*, Dan Fouts (http://www.finheaven.com/players/F/FoutDa00.htm)*, Peyton Manning (http://www.finheaven.com/players/M/MannPe00.htm), Terry Bradshaw (http://www.finheaven.com/players/B/BradTe00.htm)*







Jeff Garcia




Career

Kurt Warner (http://www.finheaven.com/players/W/WarnKu00.htm), Rich Gannon (http://www.finheaven.com/players/G/GannRi00.htm), Bert Jones (http://www.finheaven.com/players/J/JoneBe00.htm), Joe Theismann (http://www.finheaven.com/players/T/TheiJo00.htm), Jim Zorn (http://www.finheaven.com/players/Z/ZornJi00.htm), Trent Green (http://www.finheaven.com/players/G/GreeTr00.htm), Joe Namath (http://www.finheaven.com/players/N/NamaJo00.htm)*, Neil Lomax (http://www.finheaven.com/players/L/LomaNe00.htm), Jake Plummer (http://www.finheaven.com/players/P/PlumJa00.htm), Greg Landry (http://www.finheaven.com/players/L/LandGr00.htm)








Hmmm Duante Culpepper... strange I see jeff garcia on this list... maybe comparing apples to apples has some merit.




Career

Bert Jones (http://www.finheaven.com/players/J/JoneBe00.htm), Kurt Warner (http://www.finheaven.com/players/W/WarnKu00.htm), Jeff Garcia (http://www.finheaven.com/players/G/GarcJe00.htm), Trent Green (http://www.finheaven.com/players/G/GreeTr00.htm), Rich Gannon (http://www.finheaven.com/players/G/GannRi00.htm), Greg Landry (http://www.finheaven.com/players/L/LandGr00.htm), Jim Zorn (http://www.finheaven.com/players/Z/ZornJi00.htm), Michael Vick (http://www.finheaven.com/players/V/VickMi00.htm), Aaron Brooks (http://www.finheaven.com/players/B/BrooAa00.htm), Danny White (http://www.finheaven.com/players/W/WhitDa01.htm)






Hmmm Chad pennington sure isn't compared to any HOFer's






Career
Jake Delhomme (http://www.finheaven.com/players/D/DelhJa00.htm), Doug Williams (http://www.finheaven.com/players/W/WillDo01.htm), Stan Humphries (http://www.finheaven.com/players/H/HumpSt00.htm), David Garrard (http://www.finheaven.com/players/G/GarrDa00.htm), Brian Griese (http://www.finheaven.com/players/G/GrieBr00.htm), Bill Nelsen (http://www.finheaven.com/players/N/NelsBi00.htm), Mark Rypien (http://www.finheaven.com/players/R/RypiMa00.htm), Jeff Hostetler (http://www.finheaven.com/players/H/HostJe00.htm), Doug Flutie (http://www.finheaven.com/players/F/FlutDo00.htm), Marc Bulger (http://www.finheaven.com/players/B/BulgMa00.htm)

LikeUntoGod
03-30-2012, 01:32 PM
Sanchez is simply not a top 20 QB in anyway that you look at it.

Matt Moore kicked his ass in every single area of playing the position.

Harry_Bagpipe
03-30-2012, 01:35 PM
career QBR is only useful if you're comparing apples to apples oranges to oranges, for instance Dan played most of his career when the running game and a strong defense won most of the championships, while those others you listed clearly came into there own as the league moved more into a pass first and let god sort them out. Also if you wanna go by career you should also make sure you're only adding up the number of years for the person with the least amount of years, and then only the years in which they clearly were a starter.

Of course. I just assumed that was obvious. Well i guess i should of known better. QBR is a measurement that is used pertaining to that year. Marino played in a era where it was unheard of to throw for 40tds and 5000 yards(remember elway never threw for 30, ever) To compare a qb rating now with all the changes in the rules to favor the passing game, with a qb rating 30 years ago is asinine. You have more than a few qbs throwing for over 4k yards these days.

Clipse
03-30-2012, 01:36 PM
Everyone knows Sanchez sucks and isn't a top 20 QB. No point in trying to convince Junc of this fact. He's as blind as they come.

Harry_Bagpipe
03-30-2012, 01:38 PM
Everyone knows Sanchez sucks and isn't a top 20 QB. No point in trying to convince Junc of this fact. He's as blind as they come.

Hes the WesternNYPhinsfan of jets fans. lol

Wildbill3
03-30-2012, 01:40 PM
Of course. I just assumed that was obvious. Well i guess i should of known better. QBR is a measurement that is used pertaining to that year. Marino played in a era where it was unheard of to throw for 40tds and 5000 yards(remember elway never threw for 30, ever) To compare a qb rating now with all the changes in the rules to favor the passing game, with a qb rating 30 years ago is asinine. You have more than a few qbs throwing for over 4k yards these days.I lost attention to whatever the lame arguement was in sanchez's favor when he tried to pull the career QBR in comparison to marino... Marino who's Career peers are all in the hall of fame or soon will be (with one exception). while on the flip side all the other qbs he mentioned are best compared to other qbs who aren't in the hall of fame with one exception.

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 01:43 PM
Back to the who was a better QB than marino, perhaps the most telling stat on profootball focus is ... who was most like marino for his career...



Jeff Garcia




Hmmm Duante Culpepper... strange I see jeff garcia on this list... maybe comparing apples to apples has some merit.



Hmmm Chad pennington sure isn't compared to any HOFer's

Marino stopped playing in '99, Culpepper was already in the league and Chad was a year away. We are not comparing a guy who played in the 60s to current guys.

The bottom line is if you strictly use stats and QB rating to judge then the rankings are very flawed. Stats tell PART of the story(and I love the excuse about marino playing in an era when RBs and Ds carried teams to SBs).

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 01:45 PM
Sanchez was not a top 20 QB in 2011, he was near the top 10, if not in it, in 2010.

Phinatic8u
03-30-2012, 01:47 PM
Sanchez was not a top 20 QB in 2011, he was near the top 10, if not in it, in 2010.

:bobdole:

:lol::lol:

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 01:47 PM
FWIW, Cam Newton, who coming out was a much better QB than Sanchez is even now, did worse than Moore with an upgraded offense including 2 TE studs plus everyone you mentioned and his own legs as an additional weapon, not to mention a coach who cared and wasn't a lame duck going 1-5 and 2-10 vs Moore's 1-4 in 2010. So your argument is only relevent if you're wearing homer glasses. And as far as reaching 2 title games, doesn't that mean he also lost 2 title games? But you know, I will give him credit for a legitimate run in 2010 but even reaching the post season in 2009 was more due to Peyton Manning and Jim Caldwell so I won't even get into the competition before Peyton and Colts spanked and blanked Sanchez in the last 31 minutes when it actually counted.

Since you take such pride in losing big games, it's important to note that "winning 2 post season games" is the best the jest ever did, and that includes that farce of a 2 game post season 1969 superbowl "victory" so to that extent I'll grant you credit where due :idk:

Either Tim Tebow is a dummass or he's smart, you'll have to decide since obviously he felt he had a better chance of beating out Sanchez than Gabbert for the starter job. And if he thought he couldn't beat out arguably the worst QB in the league last season, what does that make Sanchez?



You are going to compare a rookie starting from day 1 to a journeyman who started when a season was already over? It figures.

When is the last time Miami won 2 postseason games int he same postseason? I'll answer it for you: 1984

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 01:48 PM
:bobdole:

:lol::lol:

it's amazing how fans that follow it as closely as you do don't understand this game and just judge based on fantasy rankings. It's mind boggling.

Wildbill3
03-30-2012, 01:49 PM
Marino stopped playing in '99, Culpepper was already in the league and Chad was a year away. We are not comparing a guy who played in the 60s to current guys.

The bottom line is if you strictly use stats and QB rating to judge then the rankings are very flawed. Stats tell PART of the story(and I love the excuse about marino playing in an era when RBs and Ds carried teams to SBs).look I know you're smart enough that you can dance all day, but to say the 80's and early 90's were the same as the late 90's and 00's is about as asinine as it comes. You aren't dealing with football speculation, you're dealing with football fact, the game changed forever with free agency, and it further changed with the league changing the rules to benifit pass oriented teams. Over thier careers Daunte isn't even in the same stratosphere as marino, or perhaps you think you should be comparing dumte to farve, peyton, and elway as well as marino? I don't see dumbte ever knocking on the doors of canton, in fact the only way he gets in is if he buys a ticket.

Harry_Bagpipe
03-30-2012, 01:50 PM
:bobdole:

:lol::lol:

You can't argue with crazy and you can't fix delusional. Lol

Wildbill3
03-30-2012, 01:50 PM
Marino stopped playing in '99, Culpepper was already in the league and Chad was a year away. We are not comparing a guy who played in the 60s to current guys.

The bottom line is if you strictly use stats and QB rating to judge then the rankings are very flawed. Stats tell PART of the story(and I love the excuse about marino playing in an era when RBs and Ds carried teams to SBs).ah and good one junc Dunte didn't even start his rookie year, so I guess that really counts as playing.

maybe you'd like to play a different game junc? maybe you should be allowed to count dumbtes actual playing years and compare them on a year to year basis to marino? wanna hint? marino is way above dumbte in the ratings. Hmmm who would've thought that a late career marino saddled by JJ's offense of run first and let the defense win the game would've lowered his career stats.

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 01:55 PM
look I know you're smart enough that you can dance all day, but to say the 80's and early 90's were the same as the late 90's and 00's is about as asinine as it comes. You aren't dealing with football speculation, you're dealing with football fact, the game changed forever with free agency, and it further changed with the league changing the rules to benifit pass oriented teams. Over thier careers Daunte isn't even in the same stratosphere as marino, or perhaps you think you should be comparing dumte to farve, peyton, and elway as well as marino? I don't see dumbte ever knocking on the doors of canton, in fact the only way he gets in is if he buys a ticket.

Obviously the 80s were not the same as the 90s but again we aren't talking about Otto Graham to Dan marino here.

I think Daunte was a vastly overrated guy in Minny(check my posts when you guys got him), the point is we can't evaluate based on QB ratings or people will think guys like Culpepper are great QBs when they weren't.

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 01:58 PM
ah and good one junc Dunte didn't even start his rookie year, so I guess that really counts as playing.

He was in the league in 1999. Culpeppers carrerbhigh in pass attempts was 549 in 2002, the only year btw '84 & '89 that Marino didn't have at least 550 pass attempts was 1987(strike shortened season)

Wildbill3
03-30-2012, 01:59 PM
Obviously the 80s were not the same as the 90s but again we aren't talking about Otto Graham to Dan marino here.

I think Daunte was a vastly overrated guy in Minny(check my posts when you guys got him), the point is we can't evaluate based on QB ratings or people will think guys like Culpepper are great QBs when they weren't.of course he was overrated, so was chad pennington, but at the same time if you compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges, sanchez sucks. you know it, I know it and his boyfriend knows it. You're the only one openly trying to deny it, heck find another jets fan who agrees with you, that would be your greatest trick.

Wildbill3
03-30-2012, 02:07 PM
He was in the league in 1999. Culpeppers carrerbhigh in pass attempts was 549 in 2002, the only year btw '84 & '89 that Marino didn't have at least 550 pass attempts was 1987(strike shortened season) Wow surprize, the year culpepper set a career high in passing attempts, MIN had zero running game. I guess you found a way to compare marino and culpepper finally. good work! Cherry picking a stat and usinging to prove... that marino never had a running game and those teams won on the strength of marino's arm. Kudos. excuse me while I go talk with captain obvious and see If I can't get a better understanding of how pass attempts might relate to rush attempts.

LikeUntoGod
03-30-2012, 02:09 PM
Sanchez was not a top 20 QB in 2011, he was near the top 10, if not in it, in 2010.

I'm not sure if you can read. One more time just for you and I will type slowly.

Sanchez had a QB rating of 75.3 in 2010, which makes him the 27th rated QB.
Sanchez had a QB rating of 63.0 in 2009, which makes him the 28th rated QB.

I added Matt Moore stats:

Sanchez and Tebow both had a 6.4 yards per attempt average.
Matt Moore's was 7.2.

Sanchez had a 56.7% completion average.
Tebow had a 45.5% completion average.
Moore had a 60.5% completion average.

Sanchez threw for a touchdown every 20.8 attempts.
Tebow threw for a touchdown every 22.5 attempts.
Moore threw for a touchdown every 21.6 attempts

Sanchez threw a interception every 30.1 attempts.
Tebow threw a interception every 46.1 attempts.
Moore threw a interception every 38.5 attempts.

Sanchez completed a over 20 yard pass every 13.9 attempts.
Tebow completed a over 20 yard pass every 10.8 attempts.
Moore completed a over 20 yard pass every 9.1 attempts.

Sanchez completed a over 40 yard pass every 271.5 attempts.
Tebow completed a over 40 yard pass every 45.1 attempts.
Moore completed a over 40 yard pass every 57.8 attempts.

Moore had a QB rating of 87.1
Sanchez had a QB rating of 78.2
Tebow had a QB rating of 72.9


I also checked with Jet's fans about your 20,929 post. They say that 14,892 were stupid.

That means over your career of posting, 71.1 of them were considered stupid by your fellow Jets fans. Among Dolphin fans that goes up to 99.6%.

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 02:16 PM
Wow surprize, the year culpepper set a career high in passing attempts, MIN had zero running game. I guess you found a way to compare marino and culpepper finally. good work! Cherry picking a stat and usinging to prove... that marino never had a running game and those teams won on the strength of marino's arm. Kudos. excuse me while I go talk with captain obvious and see If I can't get a better understanding of how pass attempts might relate to rush attempts.

He had no run game in 2002? Michael Bennett only averaged 5.1 YPC w/ 1200 yds.

Next excuse...


I'm not sure if you can read. One more time just for you and I will type slowly.

Sanchez had a QB rating of 75.3 in 2010, which makes him the 27th rated QB.
Sanchez had a QB rating of 63.0 in 2009, which makes him the 28th rated QB.

I added Matt Moore stats:

Sanchez and Tebow both had a 6.4 yards per attempt average.
Matt Moore's was 7.2.

Sanchez had a 56.7% completion average.
Tebow had a 45.5% completion average.
Moore had a 50.5% completion average.

Sanchez threw for a touchdown every 20.8 attempts.
Tebow threw for a touchdown every 22.5 attempts.
Moore threw for a touchdown every 21.6 attempts

Sanchez threw a interception every 30.1 attempts.
Tebow threw a interception every 46.1 attempts.
Moore threw a interception every 38.5 attempts.

Sanchez completed a over 20 yard pass every 13.9 attempts.
Tebow completed a over 20 yard pass every 10.8 attempts.
Moore completed a over 20 yard pass every 9.1 attempts.

Sanchez completed a over 40 yard pass every 271.5 attempts.
Tebow completed a over 40 yard pass every 45.1 attempts.
Moore completed a over 40 yard pass every 57.8 attempts.

Moore had a QB rating of 87.1
Sanchez had a QB rating of 78.2
Tebow had a QB rating of 72.9


I also checked with Jet's fans about your 20,929 post. They say that 14,892 were stupid.

That means over your career of posting, 71.1 of them were considered stupid by your fellow Jets fans. Among Dolphin fans that goes up to 99.6%.




I don't care about meaningless stats. Tebow(who is not a good QB) led his team to the playoffs and won a playoff game, sanchez has helped his team reach TWO title games, Moore has only had limited success when his teams are out of the race and have no shot at postseason. Their stats don't tell you that but please continue to look foolish posting meaningless stats.

Vaark
03-30-2012, 02:18 PM
You can't argue with crazy and you can't fix delusional. Lol

At least you gotta admit he's consistent in never yielding a point, admitting he's wrong or fancy-footing around facts not helpful to his agenda.. even when it's his own home boys who are attempting to dispense doses of reality.

To wit: an entertaining thread in his home forum which essentially confirms what we all know. (to junk's credit, while he might not have been open-minded about the criticism, nor objective, he did take it good naturedly.

GangGreen Forum Thread Titled "Things NYJunc Would Never Say" (http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=65790)

Harry_Bagpipe
03-30-2012, 02:20 PM
Wow surprize, the year culpepper set a career high in passing attempts, MIN had zero running game. I guess you found a way to compare marino and culpepper finally. good work! Cherry picking a stat and usinging to prove... that marino never had a running game and those teams won on the strength of marino's arm. Kudos. excuse me while I go talk with captain obvious and see If I can't get a better understanding of how pass attempts might relate to rush attempts.

Cherry picking stats? Him? Never. My favorite was during Sanchez's rookie year. Sanchez was throwing a ton more picks than tds, his qbr was in the 60s and even though the jets had a dominant OL, running game and defense, Sanchez was killing them. So of course, coming to his conclusion first before looking at the information, he was saying that Sanchez was an above average qb. This was during his rookie season. QBR in the 60s, losing games to Jax at home. Of course he was ridiculed for saying this but do you know what his reasoning was? He was arguing that if you took out this game and this game than his numbers werent that bad. LOL Back than, he was picking and choosing what games to look at stat wise and to completely ignore games where Sanchez ished the bed. It was hilarious. Funny how things havent changed lol

Harry_Bagpipe
03-30-2012, 02:24 PM
at least you gotta admit he's consistent in never yielding a point, admitting he's wrong or fancy-footing around facts not helpful to his agenda.. Even when it's his own home boys who are attempting to dispense doses of reality.

To wit: An entertaining thread in his home forum which essentially confirms what we all know. (to junk's credit, while he might not have been open-minded about the criticism, nor objective, he did take it good naturedly.

ganggreen forum thread titled "things nyjunc would never say" (http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=65790)




i'm gonna incessantly babble the same weak arguments about it over and over till i tire posters of their internets. It is then that i can claim i win

lol

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 02:33 PM
Cherry picking stats? Him? Never. My favorite was during Sanchez's rookie year. Sanchez was throwing a ton more picks than tds, his qbr was in the 60s and even though the jets had a dominant OL, running game and defense, Sanchez was killing them. So of course, coming to his conclusion first before looking at the information, he was saying that Sanchez was an above average qb. This was during his rookie season. QBR in the 60s, losing games to Jax at home. Of course he was ridiculed for saying this but do you know what his reasoning was? He was arguing that if you took out this game and this game than his numbers werent that bad. LOL Back than, he was picking and choosing what games to look at stat wise and to completely ignore games where Sanchez ished the bed. It was hilarious. Funny how things havent changed lol

reading has never been your friend, I said he had a good year for a ROOKIE, he wasn't good for a vet.

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 02:36 PM
At least you gotta admit he's consistent in never yielding a point, admitting he's wrong or fancy-footing around facts not helpful to his agenda.. even when it's his own home boys who are attempting to dispense doses of reality.

To wit: an entertaining thread in his home forum which essentially confirms what we all know. (to junk's credit, while he might not have been open-minded about the criticism, nor objective, he did take it good naturedly.


GangGreen Forum Thread Titled "Things NYJunc Would Never Say" (http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=65790)

I have fun on thse forums but they are filled w/ mostly typical fans who get their football knowledge from espn and stat sheets so it doesn't bother me if people disagree w/ me. I am not a typical fan like most on the boards. I apologize if this offends people but I don't slobber over big names, I don't think every move made by my team is a good move. it's why I spent a summer being bashed up and down on here for saying you made a huge mistake getting Culepper. Just b/c the majority feel one way does not make it true, that has been proven over and over and over again here and on theganggreen.com

Harry_Bagpipe
03-30-2012, 02:47 PM
reading has never been your friend, I said he had a good year for a ROOKIE, he wasn't good for a vet.

Nope. Sorry......during his rookie year you said he was "an above average qb" If a mod can look up posts that far back id be happy to make a bet with you. Loser leaves forever.

nyjunc
03-30-2012, 02:56 PM
Nope. Sorry......during his rookie year you said he was "an above average qb" If a mod can look up posts that far back id be happy to make a bet with you. Loser leaves forever.

good luck finding that.

I wouldn't want you to leave the board even though you contribute nothing so I won't bet but I 100% guarantee you I never said he was an above average QB in 2009. I always said he was good for a ROOKIE which is very different than calling someone a good QB.

Harry_Bagpipe
03-30-2012, 03:00 PM
good luck finding that.

I wouldn't want you to leave the board even though you contribute nothing so I won't bet but I 100% guarantee you I never said he was an above average QB in 2009. I always said he was good for a ROOKIE which is very different than calling someone a good QB.

You would be 100% wrong. If you are so confident make the bet. Im 100% confident you said it. I remember the ridicule you got afterwards.

LikeUntoGod
03-30-2012, 03:38 PM
I don't care about meaningless stats. Tebow(who is not a good QB) led his team to the playoffs and won a playoff game, sanchez has helped his team reach TWO title games, Moore has only had limited success when his teams are out of the race and have no shot at postseason. Their stats don't tell you that but please continue to look foolish posting meaningless stats.

Opposed to you who simply looks foolish. Sanchez did not "help" the Jets go to the playoffs rated as one of the worse QBs in the NFL, the Jets went in SPITE of him. Which is why they brought in Tebow to replace him.

Wildbill3
03-31-2012, 12:12 PM
I've been over at the Jet's Scout.com site, the greenandwhite.com site.

And I've been explaining in detail how Tebow had a better season then Sanchez did.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=65&f=1875&t=8829029&p=81

I guess we are all massive homers but considering that Sanchez has never did better then being rated the 23rd QB in the NFL, you wonder why they think he is so great.

Do some stat research I found not only where Tebow had a better season last year then Sanchez did, but in 2009 and 2010 that Chad Henne had better seasons then Sanchez did.

When I was really breaking down the stats, I could not help but notice that Matt Moore outplayed Sanchez in every aspect of the game.

So maybe we are not in as bad shape as we thought.......

If you're down and confused
And you don't remember why
These are the players we are talking to
Concentration slips away
Cos your franchise QB is so far away

[Chorus]
And give Ireland a fisted glove
And the seahawk craps from above
And if you can't have the QB
You love Dolphin Fans
Love the one you have

Don't be angry don't be sad
Don't sit crying over good
QBs you had
There's a player, right next to you
And he's just waiting for something
To do

[Chorus]

Calm down and do what you can
He's a QB and you're a fan
So get it together make it nice
And you won't need any more advice

[Chorus]

When Ireland is with another team
drafting a good QB will pick up steam
take him early like we should
and our chances will then be goodQuick note, before anyone says Junc hijacked this thread... the op mentioned sanchez, what did you expect?

ROADRUNNER
03-31-2012, 12:16 PM
You start a thread like this there will be blood.............:lol:

LikeUntoGod
03-31-2012, 12:20 PM
Quick note, before anyone says Junc hijacked this thread... the op mentioned sanchez, what did you expect?

Yaaa, I screwed up. I also look at this as karma for being over there explaining why Tebow is better then Sanchez.

P.S. They are a nasty bunch, the pure hatred for Tebow is unreal. Maybe it is because Tebow drove 95 yards on them and ran for a 20 yard TD to win the game after Sanchez threw a pick 6. Or maybe it is a Jersey thing.....

NY8123
03-31-2012, 12:26 PM
OK you ass-clowns have fun playing with each other down here. Call each other worthless ****ing bottom feeding ******* mother****s for all a care now.