PDA

View Full Version : Board: Dismiss Marine for Obama criticism



BAMAPHIN 22
04-06-2012, 01:24 PM
A military board has recommended dismissal for a Marine sergeant who criticized President Obama on his Facebook page, including allegedly putting the president's face on a "Jackass" movie poster.The Marine Corps administrative board said after a daylong hearing late Thursday at Camp Pendleton that Sgt. Gary Stein has committed misconduct and should be dismissed.The board also recommended that Stein be given an "other than honorable" discharge. That would mean Stein would lose his benefits and would not be allowed on any military base.The board's recommendations go to a general who will either accept or deny them. If the general disagrees with the board, the case could go to the secretary of the Navy. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57410342/marine-sgt-gary-stein-should-go-for-criticizing-obama-on-facebook-board-says/?tag=stack

Locke
04-06-2012, 01:40 PM
He deserves whatever he gets. That's your commander-in-chief you retard, what did you think was going to happen? You're not only in the military, but in the elite division of the armed forces. You are held to a higher standard than other soldiers...

LANGER72
04-06-2012, 09:04 PM
He should have used Michelle's picture instead.... .....

Dolphins9954
04-06-2012, 09:12 PM
That's the rules. You can't insult the Commander and Chief while being in the military. Though I do believe they were a bit harsh on him with having only 4 months left of service. I do feel for the military personal though. They've been through enough and have given more than enough for their country.

LANGER72
04-06-2012, 09:14 PM
He could have reprimanded in another way. I agree it was harsh punishment.

Locke
04-06-2012, 10:18 PM
He could have reprimanded in another way. I agree it was harsh punishment.

Everyone would be calling for worse if it was Bush he was talking about, yourself included...

WSE
04-07-2012, 03:29 PM
you get fired for criticizing your direct employer in a public outlet? Who would of thought.

Clipse
04-07-2012, 05:21 PM
Disciplined? sure. Dismissed? No. IMO anyways.

rob19
04-07-2012, 05:31 PM
Don't like this. The Germans probably had a similar set of rules in the mid 1930's, probably close to what South Korea has now... maybe we should just start calling our presidents our "Fearless Leader".

Idk, call me paranoid, I just don't like when you give a large group of people guns and they can't question the guy calling the shots, kinda cult-y.

Spesh
04-07-2012, 06:24 PM
Don't like this. The Germans probably had a similar set of rules in the mid 1930's, probably close to what South Korea has now... maybe we should just start calling our presidents our "Fearless Leader".

Idk, call me paranoid, I just don't like when you give a large group of people guns and they can't question the guy calling the shots, kinda cult-y.

Very similar. Except the fact that in current America, we send him home. In Germany, they'd shoot him. Only a slight difference.

WSE hit the nail on the head. If anyone on this forum created "idiot" posters with your bosses face on them, while insulting him in public, youd be fired. No one forced this man to join the military, no one forced him to post what he did. He swore to follow a set of rules, he broke them, now hes being dismissed. Sucks that this happened when he only had a few months left, but he did it to himself.

LANGER72
04-07-2012, 09:42 PM
Everyone would be calling for worse if it was Bush he was talking about, yourself included...

Not necessarily so. I probably would have responded the same way if it was Bush, Obama, Clinton, Reagan or Carter. It was just photo shop prank on face book.
It was a stupid thing to do.
...

Dolphins9954
04-07-2012, 10:33 PM
Taking away ALL his benefits was too much IMO. The guy did a few tours in some BS wars. He should get something for that.

irish fin fan
04-07-2012, 10:42 PM
Obama should step in and give him an honorable discharge, assuming it is possible. The guy might be a bit unhinged so at least let him get his benefits. Doubt Obama would get any credit for it but it's the right thing to do.

ohall
04-08-2012, 12:50 AM
I agree, we can't have this. Some ppl forget to respect the office of President, even when they have issues with the person in that office.

However him losing his benefits is way over the line IMO. If this president had any standards he'd correct that.

Spesh
04-08-2012, 01:11 AM
While im torn, ultimately i agree with taking away his benefits.

With the military, in many ways things are black and white. While we, as citizens, have the ability, and right, to debate it, the military has to maintain a no-nonsense line.

In that regard, i believe you have to take away his benefits. If you open this door, what happens next? This isnt discrimination by any means, the man made a choice to insult his "boss". While harsh, i believe its necessary.

Valandui
04-08-2012, 03:09 AM
While im torn, ultimately i agree with taking away his benefits.

With the military, in many ways things are black and white. While we, as citizens, have the ability, and right, to debate it, the military has to maintain a no-nonsense line.

In that regard, i believe you have to take away his benefits. If you open this door, what happens next? This isnt discrimination by any means, the man made a choice to insult his "boss". While harsh, i believe its necessary.
While I agree in principle, 9954 is right. this guy has risked his life many times in a lot of pointless conflicts, which is way more than can be said for the guy he made fun of. Had he just joined six months ago, that would be one thing. The dude was almost out. Yeah, he should have shown better judgement. I completely agree on that point. To me, this should be treated as a situation where they basically give him the "option to retire". He's done his time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it next to impossible to get a job with a dishonorable discharge on top of getting no benefits? If that is the case, this dude's life would essentially be over.

Valandui
04-08-2012, 03:17 AM
Don't like this. The Germans probably had a similar set of rules in the mid 1930's, probably close to what South Korea has now... maybe we should just start calling our presidents our "Fearless Leader".

Idk, call me paranoid, I just don't like when you give a large group of people guns and they can't question the guy calling the shots, kinda cult-y.

It's a grey area. You know what you're getting into when you sign up and agree to those rules. Personal accountability plays into it at some point. That having been said, dude did his time and was almost out. It's like when a person has been with a company for forty years and is going to retire in three years anyway but slips up. You don't just fire the guy and take away his retirement.

LANGER72
04-08-2012, 09:43 AM
For the punishment to be that extreme, partisanship has entered the discussion. He did a stupid thing by mocking his boss, but it doesn't over shadow the great service he did for his country. He should be reprimanded, or reduced in rank, and then allowed a honorable discharge. Just my .02

Locke
04-08-2012, 12:04 PM
For the punishment to be that extreme, partisanship has entered the discussion. He did a stupid thing by mocking his boss, but it doesn't over shadow the great service he did for his country. He should be reprimanded, or reduced in rank, and then allowed a honorable discharge. Just my .02

Partisanship? Why don't you do something similar on your facebook with your boss and see what happens. The fact is, the military is based on a strict code of respect and carrying out your orders. Insubordination is not tolerated on any level in the military. I don't see how this is not insubordination at an early stage...

Dogbone34
04-08-2012, 01:18 PM
he should of made a music video

this is an overreaction

phinfan3411
04-08-2012, 02:45 PM
While i do not disagree with what he did, i have to agree with the others about the similarity to doing the same act about our bosses on Facebook, i usually would not end well.

Valandui
04-08-2012, 08:12 PM
While i do not disagree with what he did, i have to agree with the others about the similarity to doing the same act about our bosses on Facebook, i usually would not end well.
I agree, but this dude was getting shot at. It's not exactly the same situation.

jared81
04-09-2012, 12:10 AM
Partisanship? Why don't you do something similar on your facebook with your boss and see what happens. The fact is, the military is based on a strict code of respect and carrying out your orders. Insubordination is not tolerated on any level in the military. I don't see how this is not insubordination at an early stage...

I don't think anyone is arguing that this wasn't a stupid move. But taking away this mans benefits when he only had a short time left is a little too harsh IMO.

You don't make fun of your leadership in the military, but given this mans service, I would probably just have him discharged early.

Locke
04-09-2012, 12:30 AM
I don't think anyone is arguing that this wasn't a stupid move. But taking away this mans benefits when he only had a short time left is a little too harsh IMO.

You don't make fun of your leadership in the military, but given this mans service, I would probably just have him discharged early.

I agree it's harsh, but I think the main thing is that they are trying to set an example. If he is discharged, but keeps his benefits, what's to stop more marines from deciding to put a funny picture of Obama up and get out of their service early, but still keep benefits. I think it's tricky because anything they do is really going to be setting precedent since it hasn't happened before. They have to be careful about it...

Valandui
04-09-2012, 12:38 AM
Does anyone know the answer to my dishonorable discharge question?

Dolphins9954
04-09-2012, 10:19 AM
Does anyone know the answer to my dishonorable discharge question?

All I care about right now is the girl in your sig.

X-Pacolypse
04-09-2012, 02:41 PM
Does anyone know the answer to my dishonorable discharge question?

It's pretty bad. I mean, you would have a hard time getting at job at McDonald's with that on your record. Getting a dishonorable discharge, your life is pretty much over.

Valandui
04-09-2012, 03:40 PM
It's pretty bad. I mean, you would have a hard time getting at job at McDonald's with that on your record. Getting a dishonorable discharge, your life is pretty much over.So I was right in that this punishment would be way worse than just losing benefits?

Spesh
04-09-2012, 04:44 PM
Does anyone know the answer to my dishonorable discharge question?

Dont know the answer off the top of my head, went ahead and looked it up and found this:



Loss of Certain Freedoms



In addition to losing his veterans benefits, the dishonorable dischargee will be unable to apply for unemployment benefits upon entering into civilian life. More than likely the dischargee will also lose the ability to apply for bank loans and will be barred from serving in any level of government service--especially those of the armed forces. If the soldier was discharged because of a felony conviction, he also loses the right to vote and the ability to hold public office, and will be unable to sit on a jury for an extended period of time. The dischargee is also barred from purchasing or owning any sort of firearm under Title 18 of the United States Code.





The Unquantifiable



Because a soldier who has been dishonorably discharged is essentially a convicted felon, he faces the same difficulties that a felon might in his daily life. Finding a job will be difficult, any relationships he had will suffer, and possibly his own psyche will be greatly damaged by the event. Beyond what has been listed in the preceding sections, there can be any number of consequences unique to each individual. Suffice it to say that a dishonorable discharge is not something to be taken lightly and will affect nearly every facet of a soldier's life.



http://www.ehow.com/list_6139124_consequences-dishonorable-discharge-military.html#ixzz1rZtZ2hvN

Link has other things in it, but posted the civilian stuff. Keep in mind, the soldier being dismissed is NOT receiving a dishonorable discharge. Dishonorable discharges are apparently reserved for reprehensible actions like rape or murder, things that would make a soldier a felon outside of the military. It looks like they are pushing the "other then honorable" discharge for Stein, which is:


Other Than Honorable (OTH)An OTH is the most severe form of administrative discharge. This type of discharge represents a serious departure from the conduct and performance expected of all military members. OTH discharges are typically given to service members convicted by a civilian court in which a sentence of confinement has been adjudged or in which the conduct leading to the conviction brings discredit upon the service. It can also be given as the result of certain civil hearings, like divorce for adultery. OTH discharges can be accepted in-lieu of court-martial proceedings at the service-member's request. Persons facing OTH are guaranteed, by the Uniform Code of Military Justice (http://www.finheaven.com/wiki/Uniform_Code_of_Military_Justice), the right to have their discharge heard by an administrative discharge board, which is similar to a court-martial but is not a public forum.
Recipients of OTH discharges are barred from reenlisting into any component of the Armed Forces (including the reserves), and are normally barred from joining the Army National Guard (http://www.finheaven.com/wiki/Army_National_Guard) or Air National Guard (http://www.finheaven.com/wiki/Air_National_Guard), except under rare circumstances that require exception-to-policy waivers. As of September 2006, all 50 states (http://www.finheaven.com/wiki/U.S._state) had policies barring the reenlistment of OTH discharge recipients.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_discharge

jimmy42jack0
04-10-2012, 02:24 AM
He made his bed, was reprimanded previously, knew the consequences and continued his behavior. This isn't about politics, it's about a soldier who can't follow orders