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View Full Version : chandler jones or stephon gilmore at #8?



kloud_9
04-23-2012, 09:02 PM
You have all of your blue chippers that we all know.. the claibornes, Richardsons etc,but then you can make an argument for the next round of talent. These two guys have been scorching up draft boards more than tannehill. With gilmore some believe he may be better than morris and Jones in some circles is the #1 defensive end. Would you all be upset with these picks? We truthfully don't know how everyones draft board looks after maybe #6.

gardena19
04-23-2012, 09:15 PM
I'd rather draft Cox and move Starks to DE where he belongs...

LANGER72
04-23-2012, 09:16 PM
With Ross venting his opinion(or fumes from his lunch) about selecting Tannehill, it seems like a done deal.

DKphin
04-23-2012, 09:18 PM
Way too high for Jones and slightly high for Gilmore. If we are going after these two, find a partner and trade down.

kvado16
04-23-2012, 09:40 PM
We'd be retarded to make these picks. It'd be like that time we took Jamar Fletcher even though we had Sam Madison and Patrick Surtain. We simply dont need these players and this is way above where they should be drafted.

kloud_9
04-23-2012, 09:40 PM
Really I don't think you can screw up that spot at #8 no matter what...well maybe picking coples as I see him as the only player that could completely flame out,but besides that I love all of these guys that are options. So as long as its not Rieff or coples ill be fine

hooshoops
04-23-2012, 10:32 PM
heck no....

MiamiDolphin618
04-23-2012, 10:37 PM
Chandler Jones is gaining steam...but at 8 its insane. Gilmore, to me is going to be way overdrafted because of his physical skillset. Hes a bit stiff to me. Hes nowhere near Janoris Jenkins as a player and Jenkins will probably fall into round 2. Im not so sure Gilmore is even better than Kirpatrick...it just depends on the scheme.

SF Dolphin Fan
04-23-2012, 10:39 PM
I see Chandler Jones as more of a run stuffer than pass rusher. He isn't that fast. Plus, he's projected as a 2nd rounder. Gilmore would be interesting, but could probably trade down eight spots and still get him.

hooshoops
04-23-2012, 10:42 PM
chandler jones is going in the 20's...if he gets there...he's got as much upward momentum as mark barron right now...gilmore over claiborne on some teams boards is nonsense to me...that may be the case but they're crazy...mayock said today and kiper backed him up that gilmore has done nothing but win in interviews off the field character and the combine workout etc...wins on tape also...thats fine and all but thats not a top 10 worthy cb imo...thats what i call overdrafting

MiamiDolphin618
04-23-2012, 10:45 PM
chandler jones is going in the 20's...if he gets there...he's got as much upward momentum as mark barron right now...gilmore over claiborne on some teams boards is nonsense to me...that may be the case but they're crazy...mayock said today and kiper backed him up that gilmore has done nothing but win in interviews off the field character and the combine workout etc...wins on tape also...thats fine and all but thats not a top 10 worthy cb imo...thats what i call overdrafting
Ehhh...hes solid but you are right...he isnt even in Claiborn's class.

endorPHINS72
04-24-2012, 01:12 AM
Oh lord...Chandler Jones will be Philip Merling II. I don't even think Ireland is stupid enough to take him at #8.

sinPHIN
04-24-2012, 01:55 AM
way way to high for jones and reaching bit for gilmore. i think jacksonville might take gilmore at 7 tho

TedSlimmJr
04-24-2012, 07:42 AM
I don't believe Gilmore is in Morris Claiborne's class at all. Gilmore is in that next batch of corners who are all a good notch below Claiborne. I have Gilmore as my #6 CB and an early 3rd round grade.

He's not adept at man coverage and struggles to identify the ball and make a play on it in the air because he gets himself out of phase in man coverage. He's a very good athlete with terrific speed for the position and a very solid tackler. He'll have a nice career in the right scheme where he's not on an island in man coverage. However, I have to believe that you can peform that function for me to be considered an elite cornerback.

Gilmore's tape is chock full of getting burned in man coverage time and time and time again.

Morris Claiborne's ball skills are uncoachable, it's one of the things that separates him from the rest. Gilmore doesn't have that level of ball skills.


Here is a great example of what I'm talking about. Now, Gilmore is going up against a decent receiver here in Lance Lewis from ECU, but there's two plays here that clearly illustrate what I'm talking about in terms of getting himself out of phase in man coverage on the first play, and inability to go up and make a play on the ball in the air on the second play.

The first play is the TD pass he gives up to Lewis at the :25 second mark. The second play is the jump ball situation in pure man coverage at the 1:37 mark.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZN-whn0cyk





You're not getting away with either of those against Morris Claiborne.

hooshoops
04-24-2012, 08:18 AM
the wins on tape part came from mayock...i'm with slimm i don't see lock you up shut down corner there...claiborne is much more fluid smooth than gilmore who i think has some stiffness in his hips...claiborne plays a little high at times but that can be coached up...i think this is the classic example of teams falling in love with the kid the size the straight line speed and raising his value above what the tape dictates...top 10 pick...get out of here

TedSlimmJr
04-24-2012, 08:32 AM
the wins on tape part came from mayock..


I have no idea where Mike Mayock is coming from with this assessment. I have more tape of Stephon Gilmore getting burned relentlessly than I do of any other cornerback in this draft. This was only a sample.

He's a good player but most of the hype regarding a lot of these prospects by the talking heads has to be taken with a very large grain of salt. There is no substitute for believing what you see as opposed to what you hear.

j-off-her-doll
04-24-2012, 09:14 AM
the wins on tape part came from mayock...i'm with slimm i don't see lock you up shut down corner there...claiborne is much more fluid smooth than gilmore who i think has some stiffness in his hips...claiborne plays a little high at times but that can be coached up...i think this is the classic example of teams falling in love with the kid the size the straight line speed and raising his value above what the tape dictates...top 10 pick...get out of here

+1

hooshoops
04-24-2012, 09:27 AM
on another note mayock said yesterday that if miami passes on tannehill we should take either floyd or barron at #8...he was asked who would be the first pro bowler from this draft class and he said barron...his reasoning for miami should take barron was with the te's in new england we have to face every year 2 times a year we need a safety who can cover down the field...

barrons stock is on fire...there's like half the teams who are said to covet this kid right now...some talk that someone wants to come up in front of dallas for him...heck some talk top 10 he's going

hooshoops
04-24-2012, 09:39 AM
hey slimm whats barrons outlook on his shoulder going forward...i know he had a separation in 2010 is this something that has happened in his past or something that will hamper him in the pros going forward??? given where his stock is i'd say medical is not an issue but guys that hit and play in the box like barron does if they got shoulder issues already its something to consider

TedSlimmJr
04-24-2012, 09:45 AM
on another note mayock said yesterday that if miami passes on tannehill we should take either floyd or barron at #8...he was asked who would be the first pro bowler from this draft class and he said barron...his reasoning for miami should take barron was with the te's in new england we have to face every year 2 times a year we need a safety who can cover down the field...

barrons stock is on fire...there's like half the teams who are said to covet this kid right now...some talk that someone wants to come up in front of dallas for him...heck some talk top 10 he's going


That's an example of hype that I'll buy and has some substance to it. I've always maintained that Mark Barron is the best safety in this class. It's the dropoff after Barron in this safety class that the talking heads are beginning to realize.

I believe there's a collection of prospects behind Barron that could all be viewed as the next best safety behind Barron. The fact that Barron is the consensus best boosts his stock.

The guys that can tackle as well as Barron and bring close the same level of physicality to the position (Winston Guy, Duke Ihenacho, etc.) can't cover like him and don't have his speed, range, and ball skills.

While the safeties that bring his type of ball skills and coverage ability (Harrison Smith, etc.) can't tackle as well as Barron.



It's easy to see why Barron is the complete package and the guy team's covet that are in the market for a safety.


The prospects who I feel like are next in line as the total package, albeit at a lower level than Barron are guys like Brandon Taylor, Tramain Thomas, and George Iloka. It wouldn't surprise me if teams quietly covet these guys earlier than a lot of people think.


Then you have a kid like Janzen Jackson who probably has the most ability of all, but off field issues keep him weighed down.

TedSlimmJr
04-24-2012, 09:51 AM
hey slimm whats barrons outlook on his shoulder going forward...i know he had a separation in 2010 is this something that has happened in his past or something that will hamper him in the pros going forward??? given where his stock is i'd say medical is not an issue but guys that hit and play in the box like barron does if they got shoulder issues already its something to consider


In reality, health was always going the be the question mark surrounding Barron. His incredibly physical style of play kept him playing through injuries his entire career at Bama.

Injuries aren't predictable. Guys that have stayed healthy their entire college careers go to the NFL all the time and get hurt before they even get out of training camp.

The ability to play through injuries, still go full speed and not lose the intensity and physicality is what I think scouts love about him the most.

hooshoops
04-24-2012, 09:54 AM
that's the problem i have with harrison smith...yeah he's fluid and he's got range and all but the kid misses too many damn tackles i think he should make...and at safety i need you to be a sure tackler...its not as bad as that kid denver overdrafted from ucla last year who shirked contact but it's not good either...harrisons willing though