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View Full Version : Should we consider taking a Center?



datruth55
04-25-2012, 09:44 AM
Reading Pouncey is still having issues with his exchanges with the QB. He had issues at Florida, he had issues as a rookie and he's still having issues...I don't think he's going to get it. Would it make sense to get a Center in the draft and slide Pouncey to Guard? He'd be a heck of a guard in a ZBS. Someone like a Ben Jones in the 3rd or 4th round might not be a bad pickup.

TedSlimmJr
04-25-2012, 09:59 AM
It's a legitimate question. Pouncey was always a wrist snapper and it leads to inconsistency snapping the football.

A good snapper of the football is "crankin' the lawnmower" with his arm... as opposed to "striking the match" with his wrist.

Ben Jones to me is the most overrated center prospect in the draft in my opinion. I don't like him at all unless it's a late round flyer based on body of work. Garth Gerhart is the kid who I view as underrated and a much better player than Ben Jones. I wouldn't mind Gerhart later if they wanted to steal a kid late and plug him in to move Pouncey over to left guard.

hooshoops
04-25-2012, 10:00 AM
i'm not a ben jones fan either...

datruth55
04-25-2012, 10:00 AM
Do you think he would be the best fit in a ZBS slimm?

Truthfully I spent zero time looking at Centers thinking Pouncey is our starter but with his continued struggles I think getting a Center might fix two issues on the line with one draft pick.

j-off-her-doll
04-25-2012, 10:01 AM
I think Pouncey did well last year, but there is a chance that Konz falls to us in the 2nd. If the Ravens pass - which they could well - he could slide.

hooshoops
04-25-2012, 10:03 AM
if konz gets to #42 people are slipping...that kids terrific on tape

sinPHIN
04-25-2012, 10:04 AM
no i think pouncy did a great job last year. jmo

datruth55
04-25-2012, 10:06 AM
I'm not seeing Konz there for us at #42.

j-off-her-doll
04-25-2012, 10:12 AM
Is he THAT much better than Wisniewski? I think he's better, but I had a late-1st grade on Wisniewski last year too (granted, stronger draft).

I'm just looking at the teams and some of the other players in that area, and I can see it happening. It wouldn't be as stupid as D. Moore falling to the 5th.

ROADRUNNER
04-25-2012, 10:13 AM
Move Pouncy over to left guard, Draft DeCastro put him at right guard and draft a center & a RT, you think the line would be set, let's hope so........
3 picks from 8 for the line, so that gives you 5 picks to get a QB, WR, OLB, CB and a S............

TedSlimmJr
04-25-2012, 10:16 AM
Do you think he would be the best fit in a ZBS slimm?

Truthfully I spent zero time looking at Centers thinking Pouncey is our starter but with his continued struggles I think getting a Center might fix two issues on the line with one draft pick.


If you're asking about Gerhart, absolutely. The basis of Noel Mazzone's single-back/zone read offense employs zone blocking concepts. IZ and zone read are the bread-and-butter of the running game.

Athletically he's an ideal fit. I think his tape is brilliant.

Mudder1310
04-25-2012, 10:22 AM
There would be riots if we drafted DeCastro then Konz. Our line would be awesome though.

SamIam
04-25-2012, 10:32 AM
That's actually a very good question... I think Pouncy can be a great RG ..

hooshoops
04-25-2012, 10:38 AM
i think konz is a better pro prospect than wizniewski when he came out...i thought konz last year despite carimi and moffitt was the best pro prospect on that wisconsin oline...that kid moves people off the ball has very good feet makes solid sustained contact on the move and gets to the 2nd level...i think konz is a steal late in round 1

Tunaphish429
04-25-2012, 10:40 AM
I thought Pouncey played really well last year..and I dont remeber him having any snapping issues in any of our games last year???

hooshoops
04-25-2012, 10:44 AM
all that said mike pouncey was a terrific move athlete on the pivot last year..stouter than i expected over massive size and fantastic feet...i swear when i watched that kid turn the corner on a wide pull etc i was watching a te at 300 lbs he moved so well...

i don't see them changing pouncey to left guard...even though many of us thought it was a better fit

LikeUntoGod
04-25-2012, 10:46 AM
No

rent this space
04-25-2012, 10:47 AM
If they are looking at smaller, quicker guys the kid out of Michigan might not a bad pick on day 3.

hooshoops
04-25-2012, 10:55 AM
the other thing about konz is i'm a believer in the short term at least he can play guard...so there's versatility there

not the athlete mike pouncey is though...but underrated athlete imo

TedSlimmJr
04-25-2012, 10:57 AM
all that said mike pouncey was a terrific move athlete on the pivot last year..stouter than i expected over massive size and fantastic feet...i swear when i watched that kid turn the corner on a wide pull etc i was watching a te at 300 lbs he moved so well...

i don't see them changing pouncey to left guard...even though many of us thought it was a better fit


I still think he's a better fit for left guard. I always predicted he'd be a pro bowl caliber player there.

He actually graded out as the only player among the starters on the Dolphins offensive line last year that had a positive run blocking grade. Where he struggled was in pass protection, allowing 15 QB pressures. Only 2 centers in the league allowed more QB pressures than Pouncey. Pass protection was the aspect that he struggled with the most has a prospect at Florida.

His athleticism and ability to hit moving targets with precision is what makes him a prototypical left guard. That's typically you're designated puller when you're running power.

I don't like him at RG because that's typically the guy you leave on an island in pass protection.



The aspect that a lot of people don't realize is that it's more important to have top notch pass protection by your interior 3 lineman than it is your two offensive tackles. Which is why winning teams aren't burying themselves with bloated contracts and investing top resources into the left tackle position. It doesn't matter how good your 2 tackles are if your interior 3 are allowing pressure up the middle.

The elite quarterbacks will step up into the pocket and avoid pressure off the edge allowed by the offensive tackles. They can't step up into the pocket if the pressure is coming up the middle. There's not a quarterback in the league that can deal with pressure up the middle.

It's critical to have your interior 3 offensive lineman be solid in pass protection.

hooshoops
04-25-2012, 10:59 AM
If they are looking at smaller, quicker guys the kid out of Michigan might not a bad pick on day 3.

molk is too small for my taste...but he's a technician and a fine football player...that said i'd say zbs is what he needs if he can make it that light in the pants

datruth55
04-25-2012, 11:05 AM
Molk is strong as an ox but yeah too small. Wasn't he just over 6' or something?

I remember Marino complaining about Tim Ruddy being Center because he was 6'2" and Marino was worried about having to bend down to far and not being able to see the field pre snap well enough.

hooshoops
04-25-2012, 11:09 AM
I still think he's a better fit for left guard. I always predicted he'd be a pro bowl caliber player there.

He actually graded out as the only player among the starters on the Dolphins offensive line last year that had a positive run blocking grade. Where he struggled was in pass protection, allowing 15 QB pressures. Only 2 centers in the league allowed more QB pressures than Pouncey. Pass protection was the aspect that he struggled with the most has a prospect at Florida.

His athleticism and ability to hit moving targets with precision is what makes him a prototypical left guard. That's typically you're designated puller when you're running power.

I don't like him at RG because that's typically the guy you leave on an island in pass protection.



The aspect that a lot of people don't realize is that it's more important to have top notch pass protection by your interior 3 lineman than it is your two offensive tackles. Which is why winning teams aren't burying themselves with bloated contracts and investing top resources into the left tackle position. It doesn't matter how good your 2 tackles are if your interior 3 are allowing pressure up the middle.

The elite quarterbacks will step up into the pocket and avoid pressure off the edge allowed by the offensive tackles. They can't step up into the pocket if the pressure is coming up the middle. There's not a quarterback in the league that can deal with pressure up the middle.

It's critical to have your interior 3 offensive lineman be solid in pass protection.

i don't disagree...i just don't see them doing it...15 pressures really??? i don't recall that many...i recall him being late to recognize some things on delay type stuff etc but i chalked that up to youth and lack of time at center...i'm with you his ability to move and hit a moving target is very impressive

anything that gets incog out of left guard i'm always game for...ha ha...i think pouncey was the best player on our oline last year...most consistent anyways in my book

hooshoops
04-25-2012, 11:11 AM
Molk is strong as an ox but yeah too small. Wasn't he just over 6' or something?

I remember Marino complaining about Tim Ruddy being Center because he was 6'2" and Marino was worried about having to bend down to far and not being able to see the field pre snap well enough.

if molk played at 280 lbs i don't believe it...guy looked small and light to me

datruth55
04-25-2012, 11:18 AM
if molk played at 280 lbs i don't believe it...guy looked small and light to me
He measured a shade over 6'1" at the combine and weighed in at 298 lbs. Not sure what he played at though. 41 reps on the bench is outstanding...that was the first time I heard of him was after he got 41 reps at the combine.

hooshoops
04-25-2012, 11:20 AM
He measured a shade over 6'1" at the combine and weighed in at 298 lbs. Not sure what he played at though. 41 reps on the bench is outstanding...that was the first time I heard of him was after he got 41 reps at the combine.

then the kid carbo loaded since the season...cause i swear he was 275

J Tes
04-25-2012, 11:26 AM
If Miami does take a center I don't see it until later in the draft and they take someone like Chris Anzevino who they've been doing their homework on. Kids also working out with former pro-bowler LeCharles Bentley

madridfinfan
04-25-2012, 11:40 AM
So that premise, Would anyone be upset with a draft of:
1 deCastro OG
2 Konz C
3 Hosley CB
3 Irvin OLB
4 Mosley OT
5 Hilton WR
6 J. Wright or J. Fuller WR
7 TE

datruth55
04-25-2012, 11:44 AM
So that premise, Would anyone be upset with a draft of:
1 deCastro OG
2 Konz C
3 Hosley CB
3 Irvin OLB
4 Mosley OT
5 Hilton WR
6 J. Wright or J. Fuller WR
7 TE
Yeah I'd be upset.

madridfinfan
04-25-2012, 11:47 AM
No QB? Or no receiver picked earlier?

madridfinfan
04-25-2012, 11:49 AM
Could switch irvin for Broyles in 3rd and switch WR for Vernon DE in 6th for

datruth55
04-25-2012, 11:52 AM
No QB? Or no receiver picked earlier?
First off, if you're drafting a Center the idea would be to put Pouncey over at LG...why would you draft DeCastro? To put him at RG? Waste of a draft pick and money. DeCastro can play RG but he's more of a natural fit at LG. You can get a RG much later in the draft. We also need a boundary WR, T.Y. Hilton is a slot WR. I don't like Wright or Fuller and there is no QB.

hooshoops
04-25-2012, 12:05 PM
i think its qb and pass rusher back to back with the top 2 picks...tannehill at qb and bruce irvin at #42...they've already said pass rush is paramount need this offseason...irvin has the elite tools in this class...i think they'll make sure they get him and they can do it at #42

just what i think...before i was thinking #73 but i don't think they'll risk it...#42

MiamiDolphin618
04-25-2012, 12:08 PM
i think its qb and pass rusher back to back with the top 2 picks...tannehill at qb and bruce irvin at #42...they've already said pass rush is paramount need this offseason...irvin has the elite tools in this class...i think they'll make sure they get him and they can do it at #42

just what i think...before i was thinking #73 but i don't think they'll risk it...#42
Yeah thats what I said yesterday. Irvin probably has better value at 73, but I also like him better than Curry and some of the other 2nd round guys. He is the most explosive pass rusher in this draft IMO. Barring someone completely unexpected falling to the 2nd, the only person I would consider over him would be Jenkins if he is there. And then Id be looking to get back into round 2 to get Irvin.

PSU Cane
04-25-2012, 01:15 PM
If we would look at centers later in the draft as backup in case Pouncey does continue to struggle and move, i like Phillip Blake from Baylor. He's pretty stout against the bull-rush and has a ton of experience with shotgun snaps and zone concepts having been at Baylor...but i think he's versatile enough to fill in at guard as well. He needs to work on his body in the NFL b/c it's a bit sloppy at the moment, but he has talent to work with. I think he can be had in the 4th.

As a pure center, i'd also consider Brewster from Ohio State. He's feisty and nasty, although a bit stiff and inconsistent at times.

Whitedolphin54
04-25-2012, 03:11 PM
What about someone like Adam Gettis from Iowa ?. Listed as a guard but probably too light to play there and would be around in the 6th/7th round

frb86
04-25-2012, 03:35 PM
I think we will def draft a tackle, but I doubt it will be until the 3rd. I would like a pass rusher with 1 of the 1st 2 picks

RockyMtnPhinfan
04-25-2012, 04:08 PM
i think its qb and pass rusher back to back with the top 2 picks...tannehill at qb and bruce irvin at #42...they've already said pass rush is paramount need this offseason...irvin has the elite tools in this class...i think they'll make sure they get him and they can do it at #42

just what i think...before i was thinking #73 but i don't think they'll risk it...#42


I'm down with this

PSU Cane
04-25-2012, 06:08 PM
i think its qb and pass rusher back to back with the top 2 picks...tannehill at qb and bruce irvin at #42...they've already said pass rush is paramount need this offseason...irvin has the elite tools in this class...i think they'll make sure they get him and they can do it at #42

just what i think...before i was thinking #73 but i don't think they'll risk it...#42

I think Irvin has elite athleticism, but not elite tools. He has zero pass rush moves....uses pure speed. He does not use his hands well and gets swallowed by good Olinemen once they get their hands on him. Plus, he's so bad against the run that even West Virginia took him out of the game on rush downs. Would i be willing to take him in the 4th? Definitely 3rd? Probably, depends who's still there. 2nd? No probably not.....there should be too much proven talent still on the board at that point.

hooshoops
04-26-2012, 12:01 AM
I think Irvin has elite athleticism, but not elite tools. He has zero pass rush moves....uses pure speed. He does not use his hands well and gets swallowed by good Olinemen once they get their hands on him. Plus, he's so bad against the run that even West Virginia took him out of the game on rush downs. Would i be willing to take him in the 4th? Definitely 3rd? Probably, depends who's still there. 2nd? No probably not.....there should be too much proven talent still on the board at that point.

well get ready for him to go high...lombardi says he has a promise from a team as a 1st round pick...don't know if that will happen but top 50 i bet it does...i agree he doesn't show much rush arsenal but the tools are very high end and i think it was the walrus who informed me that at wvu they didn't even work on pass rush drills etc he just used his athleticism and speed and explosive get off of the ball...that said i have seen him redirect back inside to the qb on occasion...

chandler jones looks like top 20 pick and there's word that seattle at #12 is giving him heavy consideration...patriots said to love him but doesn't look like he's getting anywhere near there...

MiamiDolphin618
04-26-2012, 12:20 AM
well get ready for him to go high...lombardi says he has a promise from a team as a 1st round pick...don't know if that will happen but top 50 i bet it does...i agree he doesn't show much rush arsenal but the tools are very high end and i think it was the walrus who informed me that at wvu they didn't even work on pass rush drills etc he just used his athleticism and speed and explosive get off of the ball...that said i have seen him redirect back inside to the qb on occasion...

chandler jones looks like top 20 pick and there's word that seattle at #12 is giving him heavy consideration...patriots said to love him but doesn't look like he's getting anywhere near there...
Yeah I read a writeup on him on Yahoo a few weeks ago. Irvin essentially said the same thing...that none of his coaches really worked with him...he just beat people off pure athleticism. Then he went on to say something like if he got coached up he could be a dominate pass rusher, etc. I would take him at 42 in several situations.

PSU Cane
04-26-2012, 12:25 AM
well get ready for him to go high...lombardi says he has a promise from a team as a 1st round pick...don't know if that will happen but top 50 i bet it does...i agree he doesn't show much rush arsenal but the tools are very high end and i think it was the walrus who informed me that at wvu they didn't even work on pass rush drills etc he just used his athleticism and speed and explosive get off of the ball...that said i have seen him redirect back inside to the qb on occasion...

chandler jones looks like top 20 pick and there's word that seattle at #12 is giving him heavy consideration...patriots said to love him but doesn't look like he's getting anywhere near there...

Oh, i'm sure he'll be overdrafted....guys with his athleticism are all the time. Eagles fan remember Mike Mamula, haha! Actually, Irvin might fit the Eagles wide 9 best at this point. I just don't think he's worth a pick that high. He's always had off the field issues (spent time in jail, recently arrested after his pro day for damaging public property) and was never a full-time player at West Virginia....West Virginia!!! To me, those are big red flags. He's a boom or bust player no doubt, which is why in the 3rd i'd be willing to take the risk but not high in Round 2. He's a skinny frame guy who doesn't use his hands well, doesn't have functional strength at the point or to disengage blockers, doesn't show instincts (more of a see ball, chase ball guy so i can't see him playing LB), and is a one trick pony at this point.....run as fast as you can around the tackle to the QB. In my life there was only 1 guy who could get away doing that. His name was Derrick Thomas. The difference with those 2 guys is Thomas had a great shoulder dip and ran the arc better than anyone. I just can't see spending a high 2nd round pick on a guy who would only be a special teams guy who plays maybe 15 plays a game on passing down.....the only guys who should be drafted that early and not play 80% of the snaps are QBs.

If i'm going to take a pass rush specialist only, a guy to groom for the future, i'd be more inclined to lean towards Kyle Wilber. He has better size, a good first step, and has shown the ability to drop in coverage. Plus, he can be had much later in the draft and not be expected to produce early in his career.

hooshoops
04-26-2012, 12:26 AM
would you guys go postal if we used the #8 pick on chandler jones??? i know we've worked him out extensively and his stock is red hot...i think he might actually be in play along with coples and tannehill...

PSU Cane
04-26-2012, 12:29 AM
Yeah I read a writeup on him on Yahoo a few weeks ago. Irvin essentially said the same thing...that none of his coaches really worked with him...he just beat people off pure athleticism. Then he went on to say something like if he got coached up he could be a dominate pass rusher, etc. I would take him at 42 in several situations.

So doesn't that seem odd? Why would coaches not work on fundamentals and moves? Is it b/c Irvin wasn't an easy guy to coach? Was it b/c he didn't pick things up all that well so it was just easier to say "go out there and do your thing", or was it b/c they are just LOWSY coaches? Makes you wonder.....

---------- Post added at 12:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 AM ----------


would you guys go postal if we used the #8 pick on chandler jones??? i know we've worked him out extensively and his stock is red hot...i think he might actually be in play along with coples and tannehill...

I'd MUCH rather have Jones than Coples. I also like Cox though too.

MiamiDolphin618
04-26-2012, 12:29 AM
So doesn't that seem odd? Why would coaches not work on fundamentals and moves? Is it b/c Irvin wasn't an easy guy to coach? Was it b/c he didn't pick things up all that well so it was just easier to say "go out there and do your thing", or was it b/c they are just LOWSY coaches? Makes you wonder.....
It does seem a bit odd. But, considering he had what 14 sacks as a junior as a pass rush specialist...maybe they didnt think he needed to do anything else? Just thinking out loud, I honestly dont have an answer.

MiamiDolphin618
04-26-2012, 12:32 AM
I like Chandler Jones, but man...8 is pretty rich. I wouldnt go postal...but I would be pretty disappointed in taking him over Tannehill. Id rather take the QB with high end tools and potential than an OLB with high end tools and potential. Its not like Jones has crazy production...I mean youd be drafting on upside with him as well.

hooshoops
04-26-2012, 12:36 AM
hey i'm just trying to put the pieces together of where guys value lies and what miami feels is a priority...and imo pass rush even if its situational pass rush is critical...if its a true 43 i think also though that a 43 de who can play on 1st and 2nd down and be stout against the run is another must have

Valandui
04-26-2012, 12:39 AM
I still feel like flipping Pouncey and Incognito would be a great move. Garner could still be a good fit at RG as well.

MiamiDolphin618
04-26-2012, 12:39 AM
hey i'm just trying to put the pieces together of where guys value lies and what miami feels is a priority...and imo pass rush even if its situational pass rush is critical...if its a true 43 i think also though that a 43 de who can play on 1st and 2nd down and be stout against the run is another must have
I like Malik Jackson as a true 4-3 end. And as stated Irvin is my favorite pass rush specialist type.

hooshoops
04-26-2012, 12:40 AM
I like Chandler Jones, but man...8 is pretty rich. I wouldnt go postal...but ut I would be pretty disappointed in taking him over Tannehill. Id rather take the QB with high end tools and potential than an OLB with high end tools and potential. Its not like Jones has crazy production...I mean youd be drafting on upside with him as well.

with that arm length and height i think what teams are envisioning is a 280 lb defensive end in the 43...with versatility...right now i think he's 265 but i see him filling out as he's still body wise not maxed out into a 280 lb 3 down man child...and the kids got serious upside

i won't be surprised if he goes top 12 tomorrow i tell ya that...not anymore

MiamiDolphin618
04-26-2012, 12:46 AM
with that arm length and height i think what teams are envisioning is a 280 lb defensive end in the 43...with versatility...right now i think he's 265 but i see him filling out as he's still body wise not maxed out into a 280 lb 3 down man child...and the kids got serious upside

i won't be surprised if he goes top 12 tomorrow i tell ya that...not anymore
I could see it. He is worth the risk to a lot of teams. Just for me personally, I would rather risk it on a QB at this point. Chandler Jones is one of the more intriguing prospects though. There are several guys I am curious as to where they end up.

hooshoops
04-26-2012, 12:47 AM
as for bruce irvin i think when a guys got the natural get off and explosion that kid has and you see him run around tackles in practice like they're turnstiles you kinda let the kid do what he do and not mess with it much on the college level at least...basically see qb hunt qb...i don't disagree he needs to get much stronger play with better leverage and hand use and develop some counter moves but you can't teach that kids explosion off the ball or his ability to flatten out and i think when a guy has tackles so concerned about his first step and speed on the edge it opens up a lot of things for you as a pass rusher...

also though he played at 230 lbs he's 245 now and i didn't see a guy who couldn't carry that weight at the combine...i saw a very fluid explosive athlete...

MiamiDolphin618
04-26-2012, 12:59 AM
as for bruce irvin i think when a guys got the natural get off and explosion that kid has and you see him run around tackles in practice like they're turnstiles you kinda let the kid do what he do and not mess with it much on the college level at least...basically see qb hunt qb...i don't disagree he needs to get much stronger play with better leverage and hand use and develop some counter moves but you can't teach that kids explosion off the ball or his ability to flatten out and i think when a guy has tackles so concerned about his first step and speed on the edge it opens up a lot of things for you as a pass rusher...

also though he played at 230 lbs he's 245 now and i didn't see a guy who couldn't carry that weight at the combine...i saw a very fluid explosive athlete...
Couldnt agree more. I really am hoping for Irvin or Jenkins at 42. And I would be looking to get back into the 2nd if I could to snag the other one if they were falling a little bit. Dream draft for me right there. Bruce Irvin has the potential to be the best pass rusher out of this draft IMO.

jasonlbjg
04-26-2012, 01:07 AM
No more o-line in the first or second rounds. I feel like Parcells is behind these posts.

Funky Fin
04-26-2012, 02:59 AM
Pouncey sucks