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View Full Version : Big 12 Coaches Skeptical of Weeden



Hayden Fox
05-06-2012, 07:19 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/06/big-12-coaches-skeptical-of-weedens-poise-under-pressure/

Watching Weeden early on in the preseason will be very interesting.

sinPHIN
05-06-2012, 09:24 PM
the guy is overrated and ive been saying this forever. we shall see

LANGER72
05-06-2012, 09:55 PM
He may be over rated, but as far as Cleveland is concerned he is an upgrade over Colt McCoy. I think he will be a solid starter.

ckparrothead
05-06-2012, 11:15 PM
Skeptical...sort of like those that were skeptical he'd be drafted high? ;)

hooshoops
05-06-2012, 11:56 PM
should be interesting going against the defenses in that division 2 times a year...it's gonna be a whole lot different pressure wise than what he dealt with at ok st i know that much...the steelers and ravens and even cinci will get after your ass

ckparrothead
05-07-2012, 12:04 AM
No doubt about that. Tough defenses in that division and he's going to be a day 1 starter as a rookie.

Valandui
05-07-2012, 02:41 AM
At least he's got a really good OL to help with that.

Valandui
05-07-2012, 02:44 AM
Also, how does Weeden foster skepticism about his ability to perform under pressure but Griffin doesn't?

ckparrothead
05-07-2012, 02:53 AM
Also, how does Weeden foster skepticism about his ability to perform under pressure but Griffin doesn't?

That, I'll never know.

datruth55
05-07-2012, 08:32 AM
Also, how does Weeden foster skepticism about his ability to perform under pressure but Griffin doesn't?
Somehow Griffin has been immune to any and all criticism during this entire process.

j-off-her-doll
05-07-2012, 09:15 AM
Somehow Griffin has been immune to any and all criticism during this entire process.

Yeah, it's pretty awesome. We'll see when the bullets fly.

j-off-her-doll
05-07-2012, 09:33 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828eb30a/article/dc-columnist-rg3-best-redskins-qb-since-jurgensen?module=HP11_headline_stack

LANGER72
05-07-2012, 10:09 AM
Weeden will be handing the ball off to TRich on 2/3 of the snaps. If TRich is the beast that is expected, it will make Weeden's job a lot easier.

Wildbill3
05-07-2012, 11:09 AM
um I don't know anything about weeden other than what our draft talkers have said here at finheaven. but I do know I saw a 2013 mock that had barkley going to the browns.

ckparrothead
05-07-2012, 11:12 AM
um I don't know anything about weeden other than what our draft talkers have said here at finheaven. but I do know I saw a 2013 mock that had barkley going to the browns.

I've also seen a 2013 mock that has the Dolphins drafting Matt Barkley.

Grain of salt.

Valandui
05-07-2012, 05:03 PM
Somehow Griffin has been immune to any and all criticism during this entire process.

I really think a lot of it has to do with how well Cam Newton did last year. People look at him and think, "If he's smarter than Cam and has fewer character problems, he'll be a far superior QB." Problem is, they completely ignore the facts that he is significantly smaller, not as elusive or powerful as a runner, not as polished as a passer, and not as good of a leader. You never see Cam pouting after a loss. CK also said it best when he said that Cam gives you Pro Bowl level RB ability combined with Pro Bowl level QB ability. I'm not even sure Griffin gives you starting level QB ability.

Exuro
05-07-2012, 05:23 PM
Weeden is going to miss throwing to Blackmon. Richardson will be good but I'd be shocked if he produces like a top 5 pick going up against 3 teams who finished in top 10 in run defense in 2011.

MadDog 88
05-08-2012, 10:50 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/06/big-12-coaches-skeptical-of-weedens-poise-under-pressure/

Watching Weeden early on in the preseason will be very interesting.Why? He has nothing to do with the Dolphins. I suspect you find it interesting only because you are hoping to say I told you so since you predicted he would not go until the 3rd or 4th round.

Am I wrong?

torontodolpfan1
05-11-2012, 12:04 PM
too old

J. David Wannyheimer
05-11-2012, 12:36 PM
I really think a lot of it has to do with how well Cam Newton did last year. People look at him and think, "If he's smarter than Cam and has fewer character problems, he'll be a far superior QB." Problem is, they completely ignore the facts that he is significantly smaller, not as elusive or powerful as a runner, not as polished as a passer, and not as good of a leader. You never see Cam pouting after a loss. CK also said it best when he said that Cam gives you Pro Bowl level RB ability combined with Pro Bowl level QB ability. I'm not even sure Griffin gives you starting level QB ability.

I wish Robert Griffin all the best, because he doesn't play in our division (or even our conference) and I like seeing good QB play as opposed to bad QB play, and I really don't like seeing anybody but Tom Brady get hurt...

But I think Kirk Cousins is gonna have the chance to play. Often.

Valandui
05-11-2012, 05:35 PM
I wish Robert Griffin all the best, because he doesn't play in our division (or even our conference) and I like seeing good QB play as opposed to bad QB play, and I really don't like seeing anybody but Tom Brady get hurt...

But I think Kirk Cousins is gonna have the chance to play. Often.

I definitely don't wish the guy ill, but I definitely agree with you.

hooshoops
05-11-2012, 11:24 PM
i think trent richardson better prepare to take an awful lot of damn contact in cleveland...i'd have that kid wrapped in bubble wrap between now and week 1 cause once we start playing for keeps the browns coaches are gonna want to turn and hand the rock to t rich probably 300 plus times this year...provided that o can move the chains enough...i expect a large dose

i think he's gonna be running into some brick walls also...

sinPHIN
05-12-2012, 03:10 AM
I wish Robert Griffin all the best, because he doesn't play in our division (or even our conference) and I like seeing good QB play as opposed to bad QB play, and I really don't like seeing anybody but Tom Brady get hurt...

But I think Kirk Cousins is gonna have the chance to play. Often.

i hope not for the sake of redskin fans

Ricky4Life
05-12-2012, 06:19 AM
i think trent richardson better prepare to take an awful lot of damn contact in cleveland...i'd have that kid wrapped in bubble wrap between now and week 1 cause once we start playing for keeps the browns coaches are gonna want to turn and hand the rock to t rich probably 300 plus times this year...provided that o can move the chains enough...i expect a large dose

i think he's gonna be running into some brick walls also.... Clevland will do to Richardson what we did to Ricky.

Hayden Fox
05-13-2012, 09:36 AM
Why? He has nothing to do with the Dolphins. I suspect you find it interesting only because you are hoping to say I told you so since you predicted he would not go until the 3rd or 4th round.

Am I wrong?

I find it interesting because we had a long debate around about Weeden. I did predict he was a day three guy. It takes one team to make a market for a guy and the Browns did. Therefore, I will stand corrected.

However, he now has to produce like a first round pick and those that think he should be drafted that high are now on the spot to see if Weeden can be effective in the pros.

Between the D's in that division and the weather he has to play in, I very much question his ability to compete in the pros.

jim1
06-01-2012, 06:28 AM
I find it interesting because we had a long debate around about Weeden. I did predict he was a day three guy. It takes one team to make a market for a guy and the Browns did. Therefore, I will stand corrected.

However, he now has to produce like a first round pick and those that think he should be drafted that high are now on the spot to see if Weeden can be effective in the pros.

Between the D's in that division and the weather he has to play in, I very much question his ability to compete in the pros.

You are truly unbelievable. Just step up to the plate, eat your crow and move on. Other than that, I would suggest that Mel Kiper use you in a ventriloquist act, since you love to parrot what he says anyway. Kind of like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go

ckparrothead
06-01-2012, 11:21 AM
There's virtue in just admitting you were wrong rather than still trying to weasel into some excuse like "it only takes one team to make a market for a guy" or something like that. Hayden Fox thought Weeden would go in the third day and many of us said 2nd round or possibly even 1st round. He was wrong. We were right.

jim1
06-02-2012, 09:20 AM
I find it interesting because we had a long debate around about Weeden. I did predict he was a day three guy. It takes one team to make a market for a guy and the Browns did. Therefore, I will stand corrected.

However, he now has to produce like a first round pick and those that think he should be drafted that high are now on the spot to see if Weeden can be effective in the pros.

Between the D's in that division and the weather he has to play in, I very much question his ability to compete in the pros.

I love that- you're dead wrong and we're on the spot. Classic stuff. Go back to the shallow end of the sand box where you belong.

Hayden Fox
06-05-2012, 05:23 AM
I thought I did eat crow in my post which is more than many of you do when you get something wrong.

I was going to move until a few of you acted like children yourselves. No, it is not enough that Weeden went in the 1st round to end this debate. Now he has to play well as a 1st rounder to justify the pick and YOUR assessments around here....the debate really has just commenced.

ckparrothead
06-05-2012, 12:15 PM
I thought I did eat crow in my post which is more than many of you do when you get something wrong.

I was going to move until a few of you acted like children yourselves. No, it is not enough that Weeden went in the 1st round to end this debate. Now he has to play well as a 1st rounder to justify the pick and YOUR assessments around here....the debate really has just commenced.

Actually the debate about where he will go in the Draft, wherein you said that he would go on Day 3, is ended. You were wrong.

jim1
06-05-2012, 12:24 PM
Actually the debate about where he will go in the Draft, wherein you said that he would go on Day 3, is ended. You were wrong.

Thank you. I found myself unable to convey that thought politely.

umpalu
06-05-2012, 01:30 PM
the guy is overrated and ive been saying this forever. we shall see

He isn't going to be Marino or Brady, but I think this artice makes him sound a lot worse than he is. Put Kurt Warner with him to train and pocket colapse will not be an issue. Stand up guy with great football IQ and good arm. Def upgrade for Cleveland. With everone knocking him for his age and he is still chasing his dream, hope he proves everyone wrong.

ckparrothead
06-05-2012, 03:37 PM
Since we're on the subject, what are some reasonable rookie standards by which we can judge Brandon Weeden? I've gone back and forth about this with someone who is not, in my opinion, being very reasonable. He wants to execute a friendly wager, but he's giving me even odds for a bet that I personally think Las Vegas would prop at -400/+500.

I had originally suggested that Weeden would have higher than a 1.0 TD-INT ratio by the the end of his 29th birthday (he will turn 29 the day he plays his 6th game of the season against the Bengals). I thought this was a very fair measure. He plays the Eagles, Bengals, Bills, Ravens, Giants and Bengals again in those 6 games. Those will be his first 6 games of his first NFL season, and I think you can reasonably suspect that his stats in those games will not quite be as good as later in the season as he gets more comfortable. Rookie QBs commonly have low TD-INT ratios, the median is WELL under 1.0.

He comes back with the following proposal:

I win if Brandon Weeden accomplishes TWO of the following:
1. A passer rating above 80.0
2. A TD-INT ratio above 1.5
3. Six wins

The problem is, you look through NFL history and the list of rookie QBs that have satisfied even ONE of those is short. Peyton didn't. NFL.com has statistics on what they call "qualified" passers (I think over 150 attempts, something like that). Tabulate all the rookie qualified passers from the last 15 drafts and only 10 of the 30 even satisfied one of those requirements. Only I believe 5 of the 30 notched two of them. So to have a successful season, Weeden needs to have a top 20th percentile rookie showing? On a bad team in a division with the Ravens, Steelers and Bengals defenses? Really?

I look at those historical rookie performances, I see that MEDIAN passer rating was 68.4, and MEDIAN ratio was 0.920. Also, MEDIAN wins was 4. If you set the standards at those marks and demand satisfaction of 2 of the 3 in order to "win", then coincidentally 15 of the 30 passers made the grade where 15 failed.

That to me is a better standard of success for a rookie, no?

At th every least, I don't think you have to turn in top 20th percentile performance in order to not be dubbed a disappointment.

hooshoops
06-05-2012, 06:25 PM
unless somethings been said publicly that i haven't seen yet i'd wait til he wins the job out of camp before i made any bets...

jim1
06-05-2012, 07:48 PM
unless somethings been said publicly that i haven't seen yet i'd wait til he wins the job out of camp before i made any bets...

Given his age, maturity level and top notch arm I think that Weeden will be handed the keys to the Brown's metaphorical Ferrari sooner rather than later. I actually kind of like Colt McCoy - like- but his intangibles can't make up for what he lacks in an arm, especially at the NFL level. Now more than ever, with Tent Richardson there to pound the rock on 1st and 2nd downs, the Browns need someone to put the fear of God in opposing defenses to keep them from stacking the box. Brandon Weeden has that type of arm and that kind of talent to do that, Colt MCcoy simply does not. Weeden over MCCoy in a rout, and sooner rather than later. Mike Holmgren is no dummy, and he knows what kind of talent and what kind of an arm he has in Weeden. They're better off letting it rip with Weeden (in the absence of that resulting mental/physical damage by rushing him, but this ain't no 22 year old) because they're going nowhere with McCoy at QB- it's better in the long run to get the new QB in the game, the QB with the actual talent, sooner rather than later because as things stand now with MCCoy they're just wasting time.

ckparrothead
06-05-2012, 10:41 PM
unless somethings been said publicly that i haven't seen yet i'd wait til he wins the job out of camp before i made any bets...

He's essentially already won the job by all the reports.

hooshoops
06-06-2012, 12:03 AM
Given his age, maturity level and top notch arm I think that Weeden will be handed the keys to the Brown's metaphorical Ferrari sooner rather than later. I actually kind of like Colt McCoy - like- but his intangibles can't make up for what he lacks in an arm, especially at the NFL level. Now more than ever, with Tent Richardson there to pound the rock on 1st and 2nd downs, the Browns need someone to put the fear of God in opposing defenses to keep them from stacking the box. Brandon Weeden has that type of arm and that kind of talent to do that, Colt MCcoy simply does not. Weeden over MCCoy in a rout, and sooner rather than later. Mike Holmgren is no dummy, and he knows what kind of talent and what kind of an arm he has in Weeden. They're better off letting it rip with Weeden (in the absence of that resulting mental/physical damage by rushing him, but this ain't no 22 year old) because they're going nowhere with McCoy at QB- it's better in the long run to get the new QB in the game, the QB with the actual talent, sooner rather than later because as things stand now with MCCoy they're just wasting time.

i don't disagree with that...but mccoy despite his physical limitations and there are many is not gonna just lay down either...that said i don't think you take a 28 year old rookie qb in the first round if you don't plan on him playing pretty much from jump...and even if it is called a comp there aren't many returning prior starting qbs that i'd want to go up against more than colt mccoy when it comes to winning the job...well maybe that girl blaine gabbert

jim1
06-06-2012, 01:43 AM
i don't disagree with that...but mccoy despite his physical limitations and there are many is not gonna just lay down either...that said i don't think you take a 28 year old rookie qb in the first round if you don't plan on him playing pretty much from jump...and even if it is called a comp there aren't many returning prior starting qbs that i'd want to go up against more than colt mccoy when it comes to winning the job...well maybe that girl blaine gabbert

I think that you answered your own question- it will be Weeden, and it will be Weeden quickly.

ckparrothead
06-06-2012, 11:55 AM
What I think we have been finding out since he joined the NFL is that Colt McCoy's intangibles, which I too thought were very good, were far overrated, much like Mark Sanchez' intangibles. Sanchez I had plenty of reason to suspect before he came out. McCoy, I should have known by the way he handled himself in that championship game and the suspicious circumstances with his father and him heading to the locker room, some of the whispers I heard, etc.

Sometimes it's the guys that put up a really good front who are secretly insecure and crumble at the first sign of adversity. And it's not always the black preacher with a suspicious brand new church who proves to be the overbearing father. Cam Newton was accused to putting up false fronts, but he put up that mask in order to combat adversity, and he never had it easy, ever since he blew his chances at Florida. Colt McCoy was a coddled little lamb in Texas compared to what Newton had to face post-Florida.

ckparrothead
06-06-2012, 12:35 PM
For one thing, Colt McCoy has already shown the Cleveland Browns enough both on and off the field for them to conclude that they're not making a future with him at quarterback. They're allowing him to compete for show.

They want to be able to line up Colt McCoy and Brandon Weeden right next to each other for all of the players, fellow coaches and media to see, so that the differences between the two become glaring and apparent. That way, both players and media will feel optimistic about what the Browns are doing, because they can see for themselves in a very glaring way that they've just significantly upgraded the quarterback position. It's an old trick, if you want to make someone look good, stand him up next to someone that looks horrible. Of course, this could backfire if Brandon Weeden is a severe disappointment and does not look better than Colt McCoy. I don't think the Browns are concerned about that possibility, though. I think they have a lot of confidence in the guy that they targeted and were going to get on draft day no matter what occurred and no matter who was available.

Already, just in rookie camp and OTAs, what they've seen of Brandon Weeden has everyone involved convinced there isn't a shot in hell Colt McCoy wins this battle. There's already been "wow" factor. That competition was over before it started.

ckparrothead
06-06-2012, 12:40 PM
Here let me give you an example:

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/49180/weeden-has-the-look-of-a-franchise-qb


BEREA, Ohio -- No one can say whether Brandon Weeden is going to lead the Cleveland Browns from the ranks of the worst teams in the NFL. No one, and this includes Mike Holmgren as well as Pat Shurmur, can declare that Weeden is going to stop the Browns' quarterback carousel that has spanned 16 starters since the city's return to the NFL in 1999.

But, after 40 days and 10 practices with the Browns, there is one assessment of Weeden that everyone can agree upon: The rookie first-round pick has the look of a franchise quarterback.

It only takes one practice to see how Weeden has the size and the arm to live up to that billing. The building excitement with Weeden comes from the fact that his potential extends beyond physical gifts.


Browns officials haven't named Weeden the starter because they want him to earn the job. Technically, he's battling Colt McCoy and Seneca Wallace. Unofficially, the Browns' mandatory minicamp this week has served more as a coronation than a competition.

And then this...


BEREA, Ohio -- On the first day of minicamp Tuesday, rookie quarterback Brandon Weeden stepped right up and took the first set of reps with the starting offense in 11-on-11 drills.

Coach Pat Shurmur has asked the media not to read too much into that, but the great Bill Belichick taught us all long ago that you can only go by what you see -- what you see is that Weeden is already the guy.

He's the first guy up in team drills, he's the guy at the podium after practice and he's the guy dazzling everyone in drills.


Weeden has also taken it upon himself to develop chemistry after-hours with other receivers such as Greg Little.

"Me and Greg stayed after practice the other day and worked on a particular route. I was telling Mo after practice, I love the way he runs that comeback. I love throwing it to him. He runs it well. I throw it to the sideline, he's right there and it's stealing, which feels good. I think that's when offenses get better is when their quarterbacks and receivers are on the same page."

Said Little: "He's very capable of making any play. When he's in the huddle, his presence is felt. Guys really understand that he commands excellence when he's in there, and that's what you want in a quarterback."

Added Jordan Norwood: "[His passes] are certainly more than catchable. Everybody knows he has a strong arm and he's doing a great job so far. There's a lot being thrown at him, but he's an older guy, so he knows how to be professional. The more he grasps the offense, the better he'll be."

Weeden also has no qualms about chiming in and telling the coaching staff what he wants.

"There's a couple of plays in the red zone, I told [quarterbacks coach Mark] Whipple that I wasn't a big fan of," he said. "If I don't like it I'm going to continue to tell him because if you're not comfortable with the quarterback throwing it, most coaches will tell you they won't call it. I like 99.8 percent of it."

He might not feel like the guy yet, but he certainly looks like it.

This is a love affair. The more they go on with it, the more R-rated it gets. The only way Weeden doesn't start day one, would be if he's hurt.

RobertHorry
06-07-2012, 07:45 AM
It's all fun and games until Weeden starts getting pressured and throwing off his back foot and not getting proper swivel in his hips. We we will see what happens then.

TedSlimmJr
06-07-2012, 06:35 PM
Big-12 coaches should always be skeptical of their quarterbacks.

TatyBug
07-07-2012, 02:08 PM
I wouldn't draft Weeden because he's too old

miland
08-03-2012, 03:06 PM
just getting thread count up - sorry friends!