PDA

View Full Version : Iran



CedarPhin
05-11-2012, 05:48 PM
Word has it that a deal's going to be brokered between the US and Iran during the next round of negotiations in Iraq.

Khameini, the Supreme Leader, is going to issue a fatwa against nuclear weapons in return for sanctions being dropped against his country.

Be on the lookout in the near future.

SkapePhin
05-11-2012, 06:06 PM
Can he ditch the crazy president too?

Dolphins9954
05-11-2012, 06:12 PM
I don't see how this would satisfy Israel and the military industrial complex. Word is Obama told Israel to wait until after the elections and we will help Israel attack Iran.

CedarPhin
05-11-2012, 06:15 PM
Can he ditch the crazy president too?

He's not on the best of terms with the Grand Council there, but I wouldn't imagine him being tossed until the next Iranian Presidential Election, or if the corruption charges turn up the heat on him, which has a high chance of happening.

---------- Post added at 03:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:13 PM ----------


I don't see how this would satisfy Israel and the military industrial complex. Word is Obama told Israel to wait until after the elections and we will help Israel attack Iran.

I don't think we have our eyes on Iran (as far as the MIC goes), and Israel would be satisfied since you'd have the highest leader in the country issuing a fatwa against nuclear weapons. While I would agree that most religions are empty rhetoric, I'd think this one to be sincere, considering Khameini's power in the country.

No nukes against Israel, no sanctions for Iran. Everyone wins.

LANGER72
05-11-2012, 08:00 PM
It all sounds like another political season ruse. Iran needs just a little bit more time to perfect their nukes.
The leadership in Israel will not take the bait. Their finger is always on the trigger.
In regard to danger to the USA, I would not trust anyone from that regime for 1 second, or believe anything they have to say.

Dolphins9954
05-11-2012, 08:07 PM
He's not on the best of terms with the Grand Council there, but I wouldn't imagine him being tossed until the next Iranian Presidential Election, or if the corruption charges turn up the heat on him, which has a high chance of happening.

---------- Post added at 03:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:13 PM ----------



I don't think we have our eyes on Iran (as far as the MIC goes), and Israel would be satisfied since you'd have the highest leader in the country issuing a fatwa against nuclear weapons. While I would agree that most religions are empty rhetoric, I'd think this one to be sincere, considering Khameini's power in the country.

No nukes against Israel, no sanctions for Iran. Everyone wins.

I really do hope so.

Locke
05-11-2012, 08:35 PM
I really do hope so.

I don't think you have to hope. I've been saying for months, Iran isn't the threat our media has made them out to be. We just need a consistent bad guy to demonize. With Bin Laden marginalized, and then dead, Iran was just next on the list. I see the news from there somewhat regularly, I never thought there was a significant threat, short of Israel provoking a war...

Dolphins9954
05-11-2012, 09:14 PM
I don't think you have to hope. I've been saying for months, Iran isn't the threat our media has made them out to be. We just need a consistent bad guy to demonize. With Bin Laden marginalized, and then dead, Iran was just next on the list. I see the news from there somewhat regularly, I never thought there was a significant threat, short of Israel provoking a war...

I agree.

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

ROADRUNNER
05-12-2012, 02:57 PM
I agree.

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif


Good fight.............

LANGER72
05-12-2012, 07:29 PM
I don't think you have to hope. I've been saying for months, Iran isn't the threat our media has made them out to be. We just need a consistent bad guy to demonize. With Bin Laden marginalized, and then dead, Iran was just next on the list. I see the news from there somewhat regularly, I never thought there was a significant threat, short of Israel provoking a war...


The chants of Death to Israel and Death to USA must have been some kind of miscommunication. :idk:
How dare Israel take them at their word.
Locke, Shirley you can't be serious?

LANGER72
05-12-2012, 07:32 PM
I agree.

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

Hopefully, at every one of those white star bases, there are MOABS and tactical nukes already targeted at Iran...just in case all of this "peace talk" is bull****.

CedarPhin
05-12-2012, 09:36 PM
The chants of Death to Israel and Death to USA must have been some kind of miscommunication. :idk:
How dare Israel take them at their word.
Locke, Shirley you can't be serious?

The Iranians don't want to have their regime annihilated. They may have some crazy rhetoric, but they're not really retarded. They care about being on top of their country, all of their religious talk is just rhetoric. It would be like taking Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell at their word and identifying them as the ones who run the US.

Iran won't do anything, other than come to some sort of agreement.

Locke
05-12-2012, 09:43 PM
The chants of Death to Israel and Death to USA must have been some kind of miscommunication. :idk:
How dare Israel take them at their word.
Locke, Shirley you can't be serious?

Hey, what do I know? My dad is only Iranian, with over a hundred family members over there in Shiraz and Tehran, most of whom he corresponds with regularly. You're right, what our news is telling us couldn't possibly be subjective and what the actual Iranian people and their media coverage is saying is nothing but lies...

phins_4_ever
05-12-2012, 10:02 PM
The chants of Death to Israel and Death to USA must have been some kind of miscommunication. :idk:
How dare Israel take them at their word.
Locke, Shirley you can't be serious?

Oh geez. The bad bad boy said something bad.

I guess 50 years of crap talk by the USSR went by you as well. Just because some dude says something idiotic doesn't mean they will act on it. Only war mongers go for that.

Sometimes I think we need a war on our soil for people to realize how awful a war actually is. And don't start with 9-11 please.

LANGER72
05-12-2012, 10:34 PM
Oh geez. The bad bad boy said something bad.

I guess 50 years of crap talk by the USSR went by you as well. Just because some dude says something idiotic doesn't mean they will act on it. Only war mongers go for that.

Sometimes I think we need a war on our soil for people to realize how awful a war actually is. And don't start with 9-11 please.


During those years, all of which you were probably not even around to really know about...except through your history books, there were many instances that came close to nuclear war. Keep singing kum ba ya if it makes you feel reassured.
Iran is a pathetic stone age backward excuse for a country, bent on acquiring nuclear weapons.
Next.

---------- Post added at 10:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 PM ----------


Hey, what do I know? My dad is only Iranian, with over a hundred family members over there in Shiraz and Tehran, most of whom he corresponds with regularly. You're right, what our news is telling us couldn't possibly be subjective and what the actual Iranian people and their media coverage is saying is nothing but lies...


Believe what you want. Sorry your family lives over there.

LANGER72
05-12-2012, 10:39 PM
The Iranians don't want to have their regime annihilated. They may have some crazy rhetoric, but they're not really retarded. They care about being on top of their country, all of their religious talk is just rhetoric. It would be like taking Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell at their word and identifying them as the ones who run the US.

Iran won't do anything, other than come to some sort of agreement.


How can you be so sure?
After they have built the weapons, they will use proxy organizations to carry out their agenda.
The built bombs for use in Iraq that have killed and maimed thousands...naw... they are all choirboys.

CedarPhin
05-12-2012, 10:57 PM
You're more likely to see a Middle Eastern Cold War, with Iran pitted against Saudi Arabia playing both sides, and Israel.

Hezbollah's not going to start a fight with Israel, they'd much rather let the Israelis in the door to bloody their noses again. Who knows what Hamas will do. Syria's paralyzed right now, they're not going to be fighting any outside forces, and the rest of the region are fairly limp-dicks.

I'd say if you end up running into a future regional war, it's more likely to be Egypt and Israel, not Iran and Israel, if only for location/proximity alone.

Tetragrammaton
05-12-2012, 11:34 PM
Iran is a pathetic stone age backward excuse for a country, bent on acquiring nuclear weapons.

Most people understand that Iran is a pretty advanced country.

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/05/800pxImam_Reza_shrine-1.jpg

That isn't even Tehran, either.

Iran's stem cell research is top ten in the world; their nanotechnology is fifteenth. It is one of nine countries capable of launching their own satellites into space. It is the eighteenth largest economy in the world.

So what are you talking about?

LouPhinFan
05-12-2012, 11:53 PM
The deal isn't surprising. The mullahs over there are interested in one thing: regime preservation.

Right now there's a big rift between the supreme leader and the president. The president keeps going off the deep end and the regime doesn't like it.

There still is one thing to fear: sometime down the road the Revolutionary Guard make start calling the shots in Iran and no one is going to like that.

ohall
05-13-2012, 12:09 AM
The Iranians don't want to have their regime annihilated. They may have some crazy rhetoric, but they're not really retarded. They care about being on top of their country, all of their religious talk is just rhetoric. It would be like taking Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell at their word and identifying them as the ones who run the US.

Iran won't do anything, other than come to some sort of agreement.

Until it's not.

Robertson and Falwell hold no political office in this country. Sorry I don't understand your point.

Locke
05-13-2012, 02:51 AM
During those years, all of which you were probably not even around to really know about...except through your history books, there were many instances that came close to nuclear war. Keep singing kum ba ya if it makes you feel reassured.
Iran is a pathetic stone age backward excuse for a country, bent on acquiring nuclear weapons.
Next.

---------- Post added at 10:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 PM ----------




Believe what you want. Sorry your family lives over there.

They certainly aren't. They are one of the wealthiest families in the country and live better than anyone I know in the states. I'd suggest having a working knowledge of a country before making claims like that. I get the distinct feeling all you know about the country is the crap Fox news reports on it...

cdz12250
05-13-2012, 03:48 AM
Israel has neither strategic nuclear warheads nor the means of delivering them as far as Iran. This is why the Iranians don't fear Israel and don't believe they need to develop nuclear weapons in order to maintain the balance of power in the Middle East.

Signed
The Easter Bunny,Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

LouPhinFan
05-13-2012, 07:41 AM
Israel has neither strategic nuclear warheads nor the means of delivering them as far as Iran. This is why the Iranians don't fear Israel and don't believe they need to develop nuclear weapons in order to maintain the balance of power in the Middle East.

Signed
The Easter Bunny,Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

Bull hockey. Israel has had nukes for decades now and then view them as deterrents. No one is willing to invade countries that have nuclear warheads. Let's put it this way: if they didn't have nukes, Israel would have many more problems with their "less Jewish" neighbors.

Dolphins9954
05-13-2012, 08:53 AM
Iran has behaved better than we would have in their situation. Imagine if Russia or China invaded and occupied Canada and Mexico. Along with Russian warships in the Gulf of Mexico and all surrounding bodies of water. Russian planes and drones flying into our airspace with the constant threats of war with sanctions too. And let's not forget Russia funding terrorists in our country to attack and kill Americans. I'm pretty sure without a shadow of doubt we would have retaliated with tremendous amount of force a long time ago.

Our current policies over there has only one goal in mind. And it's not peace.

phins_4_ever
05-13-2012, 09:02 AM
Iran has behaved better than we would have in their situation. Imagine if Russia or China invaded and occupied Canada and Mexico. Along with Russian warships in the Gulf of Mexico and all surrounding bodies of water. Russian planes and drones flying into our airspace with the constant threats of war with sanctions too. And let's not forget Russia funding terrorists in our country to attack and kill Americans. I'm pretty sure without a shadow of doubt we would have retaliated with tremendous amount of force a long time ago.

Our current policies over there has only one goal in mind. And it's not peace.

Look no further than the Cuban missile crisis. How close we came then.

phins_4_ever
05-13-2012, 09:13 AM
During those years, all of which you were probably not even around to really know about...except through your history books, there were many instances that came close to nuclear war. Keep singing kum ba ya if it makes you feel reassured.
Iran is a pathetic stone age backward excuse for a country, bent on acquiring nuclear weapons. .

Oh i so appreciate that you think I am a young dude. But I am almost 50 and lived through most of these times. Were there threats and close calls? Yep. I never said anything different. My post was based on the fact that the USSR was a totalitarian government opposed to our views and politics with an arsenal of nuclear weapons and a bunch of big talks yet never pushed the legendary button. Because everybody knew that it would have dire consequences.
The issue of close calls was never an issue. Read. Comprehend. Don't make stuff up (in regards to what I write).

LANGER72
05-13-2012, 01:56 PM
Israel has neither strategic nuclear warheads nor the means of delivering them as far as Iran. This is why the Iranians don't fear Israel and don't believe they need to develop nuclear weapons in order to maintain the balance of power in the Middle East.

Signed
The Easter Bunny,Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

:lol:
They have had nukes for years.
They can deliver them with aircraft by bombing and air launched cruise missiles. They may also have some silo based short and medium range missiles that can carry the message of peace and love.

LANGER72
05-13-2012, 02:04 PM
They certainly aren't. They are one of the wealthiest families in the country and live better than anyone I know in the states. I'd suggest having a working knowledge of a country before making claims like that. I get the distinct feeling all you know about the country is the crap Fox news reports on it...

You need to get out more. Being of such wealth, it is not a stretch to assume that they are politically well connected.
With your background and family ties, you cannot be objective about Iran or their objectives.
If anything, you will bend over backwards to make excuses for that regime.
I do not want to know anything more about your family. Thanks for sharing.

CedarPhin
05-13-2012, 02:12 PM
I've never seen Locke "bend over backwards" to make excuses for the Iranian regime. If anything, he brings a different set of viewpoints than the ones commonly espoused by the sensationalist Western media, and is more of a realistic view on things.

Is their brand of Islam kind of conservative? Of course, that's why they're Shi'ites. The Saudis are even more ****ed up than the Iranians, but you don't see us whining about them every day in the news. Hell, they're having mass amounts of people "disappear" in the night all over Saudi Arabia right now for "plotting against" the government. Of course, we don't hear a peep about that, because after all, they're our "Moderate Arab Allies", lol.

Like when I was in Lebanon, everyone I knew back here told me I was a dumbass and that I'd likely end up being kidnapped or blown up at some point. Of course, I found it to be one of the more fun places I've ever been to anywhere. But wait, some rogue agents blew up the Marines in 1983, so that whole country's image must be tarnished forever. People just still hate on the Iranians for 1979, and while it admittedly was a ****show (I have friends who were marked for death by the Ayatollah), it's being outraged just for the sake of being outraged.

Like I said, if you want your next source of conflict in the ME, it's not going to be Iran vs. Israel in a Hell in a Cell match; it's much more likely to be Egypt.

LANGER72
05-13-2012, 02:18 PM
Oh i so appreciate that you think I am a young dude. But I am almost 50 and lived through most of these times. Were there threats and close calls? Yep. I never said anything different. My post was based on the fact that the USSR was a totalitarian government opposed to our views and politics with an arsenal of nuclear weapons and a bunch of big talks yet never pushed the legendary button. Because everybody knew that it would have dire consequences.
The issue of close calls was never an issue. Read. Comprehend. Don't make stuff up (in regards to what I write).


Global nuclear war involving 10,000+ warheads of upwards of 50 megatons is a lot different than a limited war in a country no bigger than a state. You comparison makes no practical sense. World wide destruction on a global scale vs a small regional conflict.The use of nukes has happened, and will likely happen again. The bottom line is that Iran must be stopped by whatever means necessary.
Just curious, since we are just about the same age...apparently...what was the phrase used in schools that described the method of protection in case the USSR launched a nuclear attack?

LANGER72
05-13-2012, 02:24 PM
I've never seen Locke "bend over backwards" to make excuses for the Iranian regime. If anything, he brings a different set of viewpoints than the ones commonly espoused by the sensationalist Western media, and is more of a realistic view on things.

Is their brand of Islam kind of conservative? Of course, that's why they're Shi'ites. The Saudis are even more ****ed up than the Iranians, but you don't see us whining about them every day in the news. Hell, they're having mass amounts of people "disappear" in the night all over Saudi Arabia right now for "plotting against" the government. Of course, we don't hear a peep about that, because after all, they're our "Moderate Arab Allies", lol.

Like when I was in Lebanon, everyone I knew back here told me I was a dumbass and that I'd likely end up being kidnapped or blown up at some point. Of course, I found it to be one of the more fun places I've ever been to anywhere. But wait, some rogue agents blew up the Marines in 1983, so that whole country's image must be tarnished forever. People just still hate on the Iranians for 1979, and while it admittedly was a ****show (I have friends who were marked for death by the Ayatollah), it's being outraged just for the sake of being outraged.

Like I said, if you want your next source of conflict in the ME, it's not going to be Iran vs. Israel in a Hell in a Cell match; it's much more likely to be Egypt.


Who will be pulling the strings in Egypt?? Thank you very much.

I getting very tired with these posts. I am going to spend some time with my family now.
If you haven't already done so..All of you call your mother and say you love her...and give the the mother of your children something special today.

Locke
05-13-2012, 02:31 PM
You need to get out more. Being of such wealth, it is not a stretch to assume that they are politically well connected.
With your background and family ties, you cannot be objective about Iran or their objectives.
If anything, you will bend over backwards to make excuses for that regime.
I do not want to know anything more about your family. Thanks for sharing.

:lol:

I couldn't give 2 ****s if a volcano engulfed the entire country and it ended up being nothing more than a barren wasteland of zombies and lava. I've been to the country once, and I was too young to remember much of anything about it. That's the only time I've ever met any of my family there, which makes them little more than strangers to me. I don't give a sh*t about anything except people actually using their damn brains and thinking for themselves. My point is you don't know jack sh*t about the country. In fact, I'm betting you don't know jack sh*t about anything outside of the states. You, and the rest of the Republican voting base, are xenophobic and extremely ignorant about the reality of the countries you have strong opinions on, especially ones demonized by our media. The one thing that separates humans from other higher primates is our ability to critically think. In that respect, a large number of my fellow Americans are devolving. Do yourself a favor Langer. Read some damn books. Travel around the world. Learn for yourself and stop forming your opinions on what retards like Limbaugh and Palin tell you. I know you're smarter than that, I'm just waiting for you to show it...

Spesh
05-13-2012, 02:54 PM
You need to get out more. Being of such wealth, it is not a stretch to assume that they are politically well connected.
With your background and family ties, you cannot be objective about Iran or their objectives.
If anything, you will bend over backwards to make excuses for that regime.
I do not want to know anything more about your family. Thanks for sharing.

What? So someone who has actually visited the country and is educated on the subject on hand is the one cant be objective, but the one who only forms their opinions based on who is yelling randomly in the street is the one that "gets it"? And the reason behind this is because some distant relative has made some money so OF COURSE that means they are pulling the strings behind a goverment? Simply wow.

Hey, guess what, i have a wealthy uncle who works on movies(Robinhood men in tights, Runaway Bride-afterwhich we disowned him), so by your logic i cannot form an objective opinion on the new Batman movie. Of course, i suppose that also means im running America.

By the way, whats with the hatred of history books?

phins_4_ever
05-13-2012, 06:09 PM
Global nuclear war involving 10,000+ warheads of upwards of 50 megatons is a lot different than a limited war in a country no bigger than a state. You comparison makes no practical sense. World wide destruction on a global scale vs a small regional conflict.The use of nukes has happened, and will likely happen again. The bottom line is that Iran must be stopped by whatever means necessary.
Just curious, since we are just about the same age...apparently...what was the phrase used in schools that described the method of protection in case the USSR launched a nuclear attack?
You ain't talking about that BS duck and cover?
My comparison made quite sense. It doesn't matter if you as a country look at global nuclear war or just a single country destruction. The outcome for your country is the same: nuclear destruction.
Iran knows quite well if they start crap they will be leveled as well. If Iran ever would develop nuclear weapons it would simply level the playing ground against Israel and Israel has to think twice about using nukes. Right now the scale is one sided. The reason why we never had a nuclear war was the fear what the other could do is a last second 'push the button event'. And it was not just the fear of a global nuclear devastation which was the main reason. Even in all the scenarios of a limited nuclear strike there was no winner on either side.
The danger for war is most given if one country becomes to powerful for its own good. The temptation to just 'do it' is to great and the will to engage in diplomacy is not there.

phins_4_ever
05-13-2012, 06:21 PM
What? So someone who has actually visited the country and is educated on the subject on hand is the one cant be objective, but the one who only forms their opinions based on who is yelling randomly in the street is the one that "gets it"? And the reason behind this is because some distant relative has made some money so OF COURSE that means they are pulling the strings behind a goverment? Simply wow.

Hey, guess what, i have a wealthy uncle who works on movies(Robinhood men in tights, Runaway Bride-afterwhich we disowned him), so by your logic i cannot form an objective opinion on the new Batman movie. Of course, i suppose that also means im running America.

By the way, whats with the hatred of history books?

Unfortunately the biggest screamers are the least traveled. I personally was not in Iran but I have plenty of American friends who were. Iran is not a backwards or stone aged country as many make it out to be. It is actually quite modern especially in cities. Of course the rural areas can be quite behind times but if you have crossed the US and you ended up in one of those backward towns in the Midwest there is not much of a difference.

People in the US have to realize that the world does not end or goes into the middle ages past the borders of the US.

Locke
05-13-2012, 09:37 PM
Unfortunately the biggest screamers are the least traveled. I personally was not in Iran but I have plenty of American friends who were. Iran is not a backwards or stone aged country as many make it out to be. It is actually quite modern especially in cities. Of course the rural areas can be quite behind times but if you have crossed the US and you ended up in one of those backward towns in the Midwest there is not much of a difference.

People in the US have to realize that the world does not end or goes into the middle ages past the borders of the US.

Granted I was young and my memory is hazy, but I remember both Tehran and Shiraz being huge and lively. What most people don't know is they have a liberal/conservative clash that rivals any country outside of ours. It's nowhere near the divisive crap we have here, but it's up there. It's funny that American conservatives have such a huge issue with Iranian conservatives, when they are really so damn similar, you wouldn't know the difference between the groups if they spoke the same language and practiced the same religion. Liberals there definitely have it much rougher than we have here, as that is much more of a theocratic state than we are, thankfully. Rural areas aside, their big cities are as first world as any other countries...

---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 PM ----------


What? So someone who has actually visited the country and is educated on the subject on hand is the one cant be objective, but the one who only forms their opinions based on who is yelling randomly in the street is the one that "gets it"? And the reason behind this is because some distant relative has made some money so OF COURSE that means they are pulling the strings behind a goverment? Simply wow.

Hey, guess what, i have a wealthy uncle who works on movies(Robinhood men in tights, Runaway Bride-afterwhich we disowned him), so by your logic i cannot form an objective opinion on the new Batman movie. Of course, i suppose that also means im running America.

By the way, whats with the hatred of history books?

I would buy your uncle a beer for working on Robin Hood Men in Tights, then promptly slap it out of his hand for being associated with Runaway Bride...

LANGER72
05-13-2012, 09:54 PM
Unfortunately the biggest screamers are the least traveled. I personally was not in Iran but I have plenty of American friends who were. Iran is not a backwards or stone aged country as many make it out to be. It is actually quite modern especially in cities. Of course the rural areas can be quite behind times but if you have crossed the US and you ended up in one of those backward towns in the Midwest there is not much of a difference.

People in the US have to realize that the world does not end or goes into the middle ages past the borders of the US.

I have traveled extensively in my adult life. I have been to Peru, Panama, Mexico, Canada, multiple trips to Russia and Europe, and I spent some time in Israel. I have yet to travel to the far east, but I am planning on a trip to Hong Kong(friends live there) and New Zealand (a possible retirement land deal with a realtor buddy).
Regarding my education, I graduated college in 1984( I worked 3 jobs, paid my own way)...and I have read plenty of books, both for continuing education and for pleasure..although not recently. Regarding world history, much has changed since I was required to read that stuff. I prefer American history actually. I will have plenty of time for that when I retire.
You guys can measure me any way you like...I don't give a dam.

Glad you remember the "duck and cover" drill..P4E, however regarding the possibility of Iran nukes or trafficking in them is unacceptable. For you and the others here it might be fine, so be it. Israel is just trying to exist and is not threatening anyone even though they are constantly attacked. They take police actions to stop missile attacks and rightly so.

Devolving? That is a very good way to describe the status of the USA with Obama running the country. Frankly..Locke...I have no interest in following in your footsteps, reading your favorite books, or even rebutting your attempts at disqualification. You are not the authority. You are just another guy with a keyboard...taken with a grain of salt. As you said, you don't even remember the place, and you are relying on Iranian media and second hand information. Whatever is rattling around between your ears is fine with me.
All of this heaviness has me fatigued. Time to listen to some classical or instrumental music to clear my mind. Maybe some Francis McBeth. I am adjourning from the debate. Continue without me.

Clipse
05-14-2012, 12:14 AM
I have traveled extensively in my adult life. I have been to Peru, Panama, Mexico, Canada, multiple trips to Russia and Europe, and I spent some time in Israel. I have yet to travel to the far east, but I am planning on a trip to Hong Kong(friends live there) and New Zealand (a possible retirement land deal with a realtor buddy).
Regarding my education, I graduated college in 1984( I worked 3 jobs, paid my own way)...and I have read plenty of books, both for continuing education and for pleasure..although not recently. Regarding world history, much has changed since I was required to read that stuff. I prefer American history actually. I will have plenty of time for that when I retire.
You guys can measure me any way you like...I don't give a dam.

Glad you remember the "duck and cover" drill..P4E, however regarding the possibility of Iran nukes or trafficking in them is unacceptable. For you and the others here it might be fine, so be it. Israel is just trying to exist and is not threatening anyone even though they are constantly attacked. They take police actions to stop missile attacks and rightly so.

Devolving? That is a very good way to describe the status of the USA with Obama running the country. Frankly..Locke...I have no interest in following in your footsteps, reading your favorite books, or even rebutting your attempts at disqualification. You are not the authority. You are just another guy with a keyboard...taken with a grain of salt. As you said, you don't even remember the place, and you are relying on Iranian media and second hand information. Whatever is rattling around between your ears is fine with me.
All of this heaviness has me fatigued. Time to listen to some classical or instrumental music to clear my mind. Maybe some Francis McBeth. I am adjourning from the debate. Continue without me.

And yet you still don't know the first thing about Iran. Interesting.

Iran firing off nuclear missiles. Never going to happen. Doesn't matter how much the clowns at Fox news and their far right warmongering viewers want it to, it's not. Complete non issue. Pakistan and India have nukes too. They hate each other as much as Iran and Israel. And yet it hasn't happened. Any of these countries attacking another country is suicide. It's not going to happen. Sorry warmongers.

tylerdolphin
05-14-2012, 12:42 AM
Unfortunately the biggest screamers are the least traveled. I personally was not in Iran but I have plenty of American friends who were. Iran is not a backwards or stone aged country as many make it out to be. It is actually quite modern especially in cities. Of course the rural areas can be quite behind times but if you have crossed the US and you ended up in one of those backward towns in the Midwest there is not much of a difference.

People in the US have to realize that the world does not end or goes into the middle ages past the borders of the US.

Off topic, but its astonishing how many Americans have asked me if we have electricity, internet, houses and other basic things in the Bahamas.

COphinphan89
05-14-2012, 01:15 AM
They've been talking about Israel "taking out" these targets in Iran but it hasn't happened yet and there's a reason why. Iran is too far away for Israel's pilots to simply fly over, drop some bombs, and fly back. And even if the rumors are true about Azerbaijan allowing the Israelis to use their airfields, Israel's air force, in spite of being easily one of the best in the world, does not have the capability to completely wipe out all of these sites. Sure they might be able to put a dent in it, but then they would have to deal with the consequences, i.e. an Iranian retaliation via Hezbollah. The last time those two went to war Israel gutted Lebanon from the air but their ground forces were stagnated pretty well by Hezbollah fighters.

Of course most of the war cheerleading for Israel here at home comes from the evangelical christian zionists or "rapture freaks" as I refer to them. These are the people who lap up the idiocy fed to them by people like John Hagee, Pat Robertson, Glenn Beck, Joel Rosenberg, Tim Lahaye, Jerry Jenkins, and all the other apocalyptic charlatans. Most of them can hardly contain their excitement at all the possibilities of war as they see all of this as the coming of Armageddon and would like nothing more than to see it hastened so they can all disappear into the sky and leave all us sinners behind. Some of them won't admit it out loud, but it's there. They're usually the easiest ones to spot too. Whenever you see woefully ignorant **** like "Go get em Israel! God is on your side! Kill all those damn A-rab muslims" you can probably make a pretty good guess about who is making that comment. Most of them are completely clueless about the politics of the region. To them Christian Arabs, of which there are many in Lebanon and Syria, and the 25,000 Jews living in Iran either don't exist or they just don't care because in their minds, Israel=good, Arabs (which includes everyone else in the Middle East, even non-Arabs)=bad because they're all Muslims.

And on top of it all, they think even our own President is a Muslim. That's right. A pro-same-sex marriage Muslim.

NY8123
05-14-2012, 08:42 AM
Like I told a colleague of mine from Israel, most of the every day working Joe's of the world are only worried about one thing, providing for their families. Iran is no different, the people who are fighting and worrying about world power are the ones who stand to gain profits from that power.

Yeah occasionally you have your nuts cases like Hitler, Bin Laden, Hussein etc...nut overall they still represent a small portion of the world. You grab anyone off the streets of Tehran and ask him what his/her number one problem is and I would bet 99 time out of 100 he/she isn't going to say the USA, it's going to be bill and food.

LANGER72
05-14-2012, 08:47 AM
Off topic, but its astonishing how many Americans have asked me if we have electricity, internet, houses and other basic things in the Bahamas.


The Bahamas have basic services, but in Nassua, it is easy to see the decay since the Brits left. Paradise Island is obviously very nice, and so are some of the clubs and beaches.

LANGER72
05-14-2012, 08:53 AM
Like I told a colleague of mine from Israel, most of the every day working Joe's of the world are only worried about one thing, providing for their families. Iran is no different, the people who are fighting and worrying about world power are the ones who stand to gain profits from that power.

Yeah occasionally you have your nuts cases like Hitler, Bin Laden, Hussein,Ahmadinejad , etc...nut overall they still represent a small portion of the world. You grab anyone off the streets of Tehran and ask him what his/her number one problem is and I would bet 99 time out of 100 he/she isn't going to say the USA, it's going to be bill and food.

There..I fixed that for you. Problem is that the nuts are wielding all the power. Most of the places I have visited, the people have the same issues we have here...raising kids, providing and bettering their way of life, etc. The biggest complaint is always about the government.

LANGER72
05-14-2012, 09:10 AM
And yet you still don't know the first thing about Iran. Interesting.

Iran firing off nuclear missiles. Never going to happen. Doesn't matter how much the clowns at Fox news and their far right warmongering viewers want it to, it's not. Complete non issue. Pakistan and India have nukes too. They hate each other as much as Iran and Israel. And yet it hasn't happened. Any of these countries attacking another country is suicide. It's not going to happen. Sorry warmongers.


Based on what...your opinion? Their missile program is just for space exploration...yea right. They are developing nukes and 3 stage missiles. They can manufacture the nukes and move them by truck or boat, or give them to their proxy groups.
Iran made explosives and trained men to set up bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan that killed US soldiers. Iran having nukes is an escalation. They will never be a benign country.

LANGER72
05-14-2012, 09:35 AM
They've been talking about Israel "taking out" these targets in Iran but it hasn't happened yet and there's a reason why. Iran is too far away for Israel's pilots to simply fly over, drop some bombs, and fly back. And even if the rumors are true about Azerbaijan allowing the Israelis to use their airfields, Israel's air force, in spite of being easily one of the best in the world, does not have the capability to completely wipe out all of these sites. Sure they might be able to put a dent in it, but then they would have to deal with the consequences, i.e. an Iranian retaliation via Hezbollah. The last time those two went to war Israel gutted Lebanon from the air but their ground forces were stagnated pretty well by Hezbollah fighters.

Of course most of the war cheerleading for Israel here at home comes from the evangelical christian zionists or "rapture freaks" as I refer to them. These are the people who lap up the idiocy fed to them by people like John Hagee, Pat Robertson, Glenn Beck, Joel Rosenberg, Tim Lahaye, Jerry Jenkins, and all the other apocalyptic charlatans. Most of them can hardly contain their excitement at all the possibilities of war as they see all of this as the coming of Armageddon and would like nothing more than to see it hastened so they can all disappear into the sky and leave all us sinners behind. Some of them won't admit it out loud, but it's there. They're usually the easiest ones to spot too. Whenever you see woefully ignorant **** like "Go get em Israel! God is on your side! Kill all those damn A-rab muslims" you can probably make a pretty good guess about who is making that comment. Most of them are completely clueless about the politics of the region. To them Christian Arabs, of which there are many in Lebanon and Syria, and the 25,000 Jews living in Iran either don't exist or they just don't care because in their minds, Israel=good, Arabs (which includes everyone else in the Middle East, even non-Arabs)=bad because they're all Muslims.

And on top of it all, they think even our own President is a Muslim. That's right. A pro-same-sex marriage Muslim.

The distance from Tel Aviv to Tehran is under 1000 nautical miles. That is well within the range of the types of planes that Israel has at it's disposal. Both countries will be bombing the other by air, no doubt about it. Israel has defensive missiles and more modern defensive systems.
You know less about Christians than you do about the military capabilities. This conflict has religious undertones, but actually it is more about security. Iran has made public statements about wiping Israel off the map. The christian religion holds that territory with great regard. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. There is obviously a lot of love for the Muslim countries here, and hate of Israel by the atheists.
Finally, the president has a Muslim name, but he has no moral compass. He was raised in a church that promoted racial bigotry. Barrak Hussein Obama worships himself.

Spesh
05-14-2012, 10:11 AM
The distance from Tel Aviv to Tehran is under 1000 nautical miles. That is well within the range of the types of planes that Israel has at it's disposal. Both countries will be bombing the other by air, no doubt about it. Israel has defensive missiles and more modern defensive systems.
You know less about Christians than you do about the military capabilities. This conflict has religious undertones, but actually it is more about security. Iran has made public statements about wiping Israel off the map. The christian religion holds that territory with great regard. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. There is obviously a lot of love for the Muslim countries here, and hate of Israel by the atheists.
Finally, the president has a Muslim name, but he has no moral compass. He was raised in a church that promoted racial bigotry. Barrak Hussein Obama worships himself.

:lol:

Truly a hilarious post. Just outstanding. "No really, i know whats going on, atheists are the ones that hate the jews and want us to adopt Sharia law!!!!". Blame the atheists and muslims, what an original concept in America. Im certain most practicing muslims will agree with your statement about how loved they've been these past 10 years.

Countries swear to wipe other countries off the map all the time. And yet, since weapons of mass destruction have become a reality only 2 nuclear warheads have gone off in a warfare capacity. And, shockingly enough, it was America that set them off. Since that, well lets call it "redistricting", no nukes have wiped out other countries. Nuclear weapons have proven to be a deterrent. Why? Because they actually do have the ability to cause mass extinction and no one has been willing to do that yet simply for the sake of amusement.

And i do wonder: how often is our presidents "muslim name" and him having "no morals" linked hand in hand? While i wouldnt personally know, i dont think its a stretch to imagine it comes up often.

tylerdolphin
05-14-2012, 10:28 AM
The Bahamas have basic services, but in Nassua, it is easy to see the decay since the Brits left. Paradise Island is obviously very nice, and so are some of the clubs and beaches.

When last were you there? Just curious. The FNM government has done wonders for the infrastructure of Nassau starting from when we got our drug lord dictator "father of the nation" out in 1992. The last 5 years have been great as far as having infrastructure built. Im 100% positive you wont find a more modern country anywhere in the Caribbean.

CedarPhin
05-14-2012, 10:56 AM
If Iran and Israel hate each other so much, then why did Israel sell Iran weapons continuously during the 80s when the Iran-Iraq War was going on? Even more damning for this "we've hated each other forever!!!" mantra is that Ayatollah Khomeini was the Grand Scuba of Iran during this time period, so that country was definitely at its most belligerent.

All that's happened is that they (the Iranians) have replaced the USSR on the Grand Stage of Boogeymandom, so now Israel is hell bent on playing the "we're being bullied" card that they played during the existence of the USSR, and now the country of Iran.

War's not going to happen there, it's all a bluff by Netenyahu for political showmanship and power.

CedarPhin
05-14-2012, 11:03 AM
The distance from Tel Aviv to Tehran is under 1000 nautical miles. That is well within the range of the types of planes that Israel has at it's disposal. Both countries will be bombing the other by air, no doubt about it. Israel has defensive missiles and more modern defensive systems.
You know less about Christians than you do about the military capabilities. This conflict has religious undertones, but actually it is more about security. Iran has made public statements about wiping Israel off the map. The christian religion holds that territory with great regard. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. There is obviously a lot of love for the Muslim countries here, and hate of Israel by the atheists.
Finally, the president has a Muslim name, but he has no moral compass. He was raised in a church that promoted racial bigotry. Barrak Hussein Obama worships himself.
http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

I hope you really don't mean this statement. There are so many things wrong with it, it's not even funny.

LANGER72
05-14-2012, 11:36 AM
When last were you there? Just curious. The FNM government has done wonders for the infrastructure of Nassau starting from when we got our drug lord dictator "father of the nation" out in 1992. The last 5 years have been great as far as having infrastructure built. Im 100% positive you wont find a more modern country anywhere in the Caribbean.


My wife and I along with another couple spent 3 days there a couple(2010?) of years ago. We toured the island hiring a local to drive us around.The wealthier neighborhoods near the resorts were quite nice. The rest of the island from what I saw was in severe disrepair. The conch was delicious.

---------- Post added at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 AM ----------


http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

I hope you really don't mean this statement. There are so many things wrong with it, it's not even funny.

I really hope the statement I made is not true.

LANGER72
05-14-2012, 11:42 AM
If Iran and Israel hate each other so much, then why did Israel sell Iran weapons continuously during the 80s when the Iran-Iraq War was going on? Even more damning for this "we've hated each other forever!!!" mantra is that Ayatollah Khomeini was the Grand Scuba of Iran during this time period, so that country was definitely at its most belligerent.

All that's happened is that they (the Iranians) have replaced the USSR on the Grand Stage of Boogeymandom, so now Israel is hell bent on playing the "we're being bullied" card that they played during the existence of the USSR, and now the country of Iran.

War's not going to happen there, it's all a bluff by Netenyahu for political showmanship and power.


For the money. The US was selling to Iraq, and Russia and China was selling to both.

So you deny the terrorist attacks against Israel by Hezbollah and the others? Who is giving them the weapons and funding.
No need to think about that. Don't look there. Iran is fighting by proxy.
Why is it always about Israel in your responses? Very telling.

CedarPhin
05-14-2012, 12:57 PM
For the money. The US was selling to Iraq, and Russia and China was selling to both.

So you deny the terrorist attacks against Israel by Hezbollah and the others? Who is giving them the weapons and funding.
No need to think about that. Don't look there. Iran is fighting by proxy.
Why is it always about Israel in your responses? Very telling.

What are you talking about? Of course Hezbollah was/is funded by Iran. They were started there in the upper Beka'a Valley in the early 1980s to counter the then-ongoing Israeli invasion of Lebanon, which started in 1982 to the tune of many bombs being dropped.

At one point during the 1980s, the Islamic Republic of Iran was the biggest employer in Lebanon's Beka'a Valley. They do still receive funding from both Iran and Syria, though they do receive quite a bit of donations from supporters all over the Islamic world. It's literal meaning is "Party of God". Even though they do cause a lot of problems for Lebanon and it's neighbors, they also do quite a bit of good (through social programs) for the poor people in South Beirut, as well as in the South of Lebanon.

As far as I know, they engage in what they call "defensive jihad", and really don't like Israel. If anything, they're more into playing "Spy vs. Spy" with Israeli intelligence these days more than anything. As far as I know, they don't get their marching orders from Tehran. They get money and support from both Damascus and Iran, but not marching orders. That bunch has a mind of its own.

Why is it about Israel? As far as I know, I haven't explicitly made anything about Israel in any posts, other than saying that "Yes, they sold Ayatollah Khomeini weapons to take out Saddam with, why all the animosity now?", and that's just stating truths, not making accusations. I've broken down the great Iran-Israeli Middle Eastern pissing and pudding eating contest, but I'm not making a bias against anyone. I'm not going to put the Israelis on a pedestal and go "Oh, the poor guys, they're just picked on unfairly", because, quite frankly, they haven't been saints in this whole conflict, either. Everyone's hands are dirty in this one.

It's more of a Saudi-Israeli joint venture vs. Iran at this juncture of the road, not a solely Israeli one. Why Saudi Arabia? They have backdoor dealings with the Israelis, and are a polarizing Sunni state who'd love nothing more than to see the Shi'ite-topia of Iran blown to bits. It's also a power play, as they're trying to assert their (as well as the rest of the weak-dick Gulf Arab states) own hegemony in the region.

NY8123
05-14-2012, 01:40 PM
I declared jihad on myself..........sadley it was a short campaign.

phins_4_ever
05-14-2012, 01:46 PM
Off topic, but its astonishing how many Americans have asked me if we have electricity, internet, houses and other basic things in the Bahamas.

Funny and true story: a friend of mine who is German wanted to take his future mother-in-law and his future wife (both Americans) to Germany in 1993. In 1993! He received the question from his mother-in-law if Germany has toilet paper or if she should bring her own. :lol:

I remember what he told him what his answer was: no mom, we are using the Russian toilets: two sticks and a shovel. The shovel is used to dig a hole, one stick you lean against with your back (instead of sitting) and the other stick is used to keep the wolves away.

I was pissing in my pants I laughed so hard.

phins_4_ever
05-14-2012, 02:11 PM
:lol:

Truly a hilarious post. Just outstanding. "No really, i know whats going on, atheists are the ones that hate the jews and want us to adopt Sharia law!!!!". Blame the atheists and muslims, what an original concept in America. Im certain most practicing muslims will agree with your statement about how loved they've been these past 10 years.

Countries swear to wipe other countries off the map all the time. And yet, since weapons of mass destruction have become a reality only 2 nuclear warheads have gone off in a warfare capacity. And, shockingly enough, it was America that set them off. Since that, well lets call it "redistricting", no nukes have wiped out other countries. Nuclear weapons have proven to be a deterrent. Why? Because they actually do have the ability to cause mass extinction and no one has been willing to do that yet simply for the sake of amusement.

And i do wonder: how often is our presidents "muslim name" and him having "no morals" linked hand in hand? While i wouldnt personally know, i dont think its a stretch to imagine it comes up often.

We all know that the US needs an enemy picture. Otherwise we can not function. It also helps our military machine to keep producing. But just an enemy is not everything. It has to be an enemy which is very easily explained. And it really doesn't matter if the enemy is actually a danger to us or violates human rights etc. We just need to use phrases.

The cold war was easy: Communists. The former USSR had very little to do with Communism but it was an easy phrase. But why and how it came to a stand off between the former allies is literally unexplained in the US. The USSR was by far anything what you can call a lovely government. It was a totalitarian authority bend on locking itself up and trampling human rights but that is usually not our MO to determine our enemies. Even today we have many 'friends' which trample human rights and we still let our corporation shift jobs into countries without labor laws or human rights. We even let companies like Haliburton drill for oil and gas in countries like Iran which is, right now, the enemy of the world (according to our thesaurus on how define our enemy).

Easy does it baby. Communist, Dictator, Nuclear, Islam. That's usually all that is required. Right now we throw around Iran, Islam, Nuclear and we have an enemy picture. The media just goes along with it (just like Vietnam, Korea, Iraq etc). If we would spend as much time as we do creating constant enemy picture to satisfy the thirst of war mongers in our own country or follow up on human rights violation regardless of which country (i.e. Saudi Arabia) this world would be a much better place.

Spesh
05-14-2012, 02:51 PM
I really hope the statement I made is not true.

And i really hope you find the capacity to stop codemning and judging groups of people that you clearly know nothing about.

Want to form absolutely ignorant views on a foreign country based not on research but on whatever is on Fox News, go for it, have fun. Making utterly false, judgemental, discriminatory inspired, and borderline hypocritcal statements about other Americans based solely on their religious belief(or lack thereof), thats dangerous and alarming.

Tetragrammaton
05-14-2012, 04:09 PM
There is obviously a lot of love for the Muslim countries here, and hate of Israel by the atheists.

What the hell does this mean? Wouldn't atheists have more of a problem with a theocratic country than a secular one?

LANGER72
05-14-2012, 05:24 PM
And i really hope you find the capacity to stop codemning and judging groups of people that you clearly know nothing about.

Want to form absolutely ignorant views on a foreign country based not on research but on whatever is on Fox News, go for it, have fun. Making utterly false, judgemental, discriminatory inspired, and borderline hypocritcal statements about other Americans based solely on their religious belief(or lack thereof), thats dangerous and alarming.


Wow...talk about hypocrisy...very funny lesson.:lol:

LANGER72
05-14-2012, 05:29 PM
What the hell does this mean? Wouldn't atheists have more of a problem with a theocratic country than a secular one?

Read it again or go ask an atheist.

LANGER72
05-14-2012, 05:34 PM
What are you talking about? Of course Hezbollah was/is funded by Iran. They were started there in the upper Beka'a Valley in the early 1980s to counter the then-ongoing Israeli invasion of Lebanon, which started in 1982 to the tune of many bombs being dropped.

At one point during the 1980s, the Islamic Republic of Iran was the biggest employer in Lebanon's Beka'a Valley. They do still receive funding from both Iran and Syria, though they do receive quite a bit of donations from supporters all over the Islamic world. It's literal meaning is "Party of God". Even though they do cause a lot of problems for Lebanon and it's neighbors, they also do quite a bit of good (through social programs) for the poor people in South Beirut, as well as in the South of Lebanon.

As far as I know, they engage in what they call "defensive jihad", and really don't like Israel. If anything, they're more into playing "Spy vs. Spy" with Israeli intelligence these days more than anything. As far as I know, they don't get their marching orders from Tehran. They get money and support from both Damascus and Iran, but not marching orders. That bunch has a mind of its own.

Why is it about Israel? As far as I know, I haven't explicitly made anything about Israel in any posts, other than saying that "Yes, they sold Ayatollah Khomeini weapons to take out Saddam with, why all the animosity now?", and that's just stating truths, not making accusations. I've broken down the great Iran-Israeli Middle Eastern pissing and pudding eating contest, but I'm not making a bias against anyone. I'm not going to put the Israelis on a pedestal and go "Oh, the poor guys, they're just picked on unfairly", because, quite frankly, they haven't been saints in this whole conflict, either. Everyone's hands are dirty in this one.

It's more of a Saudi-Israeli joint venture vs. Iran at this juncture of the road, not a solely Israeli one. Why Saudi Arabia? They have backdoor dealings with the Israelis, and are a polarizing Sunni state who'd love nothing more than to see the Shi'ite-topia of Iran blown to bits. It's also a power play, as they're trying to assert their (as well as the rest of the weak-dick Gulf Arab states) own hegemony in the region.


There you go. Iran funded Hezbollah.

Poor Iran. Everybody is out to get this poor little misunderstood country.
I am crying crocodile tears for them.

Mazinator1027
05-14-2012, 06:54 PM
The fact that everbody is debating with Langer is a mute point. He obviously has uncondtional love for Israel and will not back down from it. He believes they have been bullied and are just trying to exist. Obviously to me it is utter nonsense, but that is the only reason he continues to argue his point. The really arguement should be about how Israel doenst deserve an American's support or friendship based off atrocities in Palestine, their warmongering in the Middle East, and their manipulation of US officials.

LANGER72
05-14-2012, 08:46 PM
The fact that everbody is debating with Langer is a mute point. He obviously has uncondtional love for Israel and will not back down from it. He believes they have been bullied and are just trying to exist. Obviously to me it is utter nonsense, but that is the only reason he continues to argue his point. The really arguement should be about how Israel doenst deserve an American's support or friendship based off atrocities in Palestine, their warmongering in the Middle East, and their manipulation of US officials.

I have a strong belief that Israel should continue to exist. In my opinion, their future existence is threatened by Iran.
I would hope that both countries can co-exist, but based upon published statements from Iran, that brings me to my position.
If and when the conflict starts, I am standing with Israel.
Do I need to clarify myself further? All of you have made your positions clear to me.
Time to move on.

Mazinator1027
05-14-2012, 09:39 PM
I have a strong belief that Israel should continue to exist. In my opinion, their future existence is threatened by Iran.
I would hope that both countries can co-exist, but based upon published statements from Iran, that brings me to my position.
If and when the conflict starts, I am standing with Israel.
Do I need to clarify myself further? All of you have made your positions clear to me.
Time to move on.

I totally understand your view, it's just that I believe Israel shouldn't have our support for many reason. No point in trying to convince each other if they should or not because I know both of us won't agree with a thing either of us say. Like you said, next topic.

Locke
05-14-2012, 09:57 PM
Read it again or go ask an atheist.

:sidelol::sidelol::sidelol:

You just told the most prominent atheist on the board to go and ask an atheist about a retard-worthy statement. Come on man...

Tetragrammaton
05-14-2012, 10:04 PM
Read it again or go ask an atheist.

This atheists strongly prefers Israel's secular style of government to Iran's religion-based government. Any atheist who based their criteria solely on religion would agree. So, again, what the hell are you talking about?

tylerdolphin
05-14-2012, 10:13 PM
My wife and I along with another couple spent 3 days there a couple(2010?) of years ago. We toured the island hiring a local to drive us around.The wealthier neighborhoods near the resorts were quite nice. The rest of the island from what I saw was in severe disrepair. The conch was delicious.


Nassau is a big city. Of course the ghetto doesnt look as good as the middle and upper class neighborhoods :idk:. From the sound of it you probably only went through the touristy parts and a little ghetto and and forming your opinion on that. There is most certainly a middle class.

tylerdolphin
05-14-2012, 10:15 PM
:sidelol::sidelol::sidelol:

You just told the most prominent atheist on the board to go and ask an atheist about a retard-worthy statement. Come on man...

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/05/KanyeShrug-1.jpg

Locke
05-14-2012, 10:17 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/05/KanyeShrug-1.jpg


Haha, I forgot you were an atheist. So, tell me about your hatred of Islam...

tylerdolphin
05-14-2012, 10:20 PM
Haha, I forgot you were an atheist. So, tell me about your hatred of Islam...

It pales in comparison to my hatred of Israel.

LANGER72
05-15-2012, 10:55 AM
:sidelol::sidelol::sidelol:

You just told the most prominent atheist on the board to go and ask an atheist about a retard-worthy statement. Come on man...


Thanks for the info. I will keep that in mind for future discussion. I had no idea he was held in such high regard by you.

LANGER72
05-15-2012, 11:02 AM
Nassau is a big city. Of course the ghetto doesnt look as good as the middle and upper class neighborhoods :idk:. From the sound of it you probably only went through the touristy parts and a little ghetto and and forming your opinion on that. There is most certainly a middle class.

You know the area better, because you live there. I was on a guided tour. The were some city streets that were at one time, very quaint and scenic, that looked like ghettos. Very sad to see a beautiful place fall in disrepair. I am happy to hear that progress is being made to clean up the island. It is a very beautiful and unique place. Next time we go there, I have to go reef diving. Our trip was cancelled because of rough seas.

Locke
05-15-2012, 11:29 AM
Thanks for the info. I will keep that in mind for future discussion. I had no idea he was held in such high regard by you.

High regard? Same as anyone else. It's just amusing when you tell an atheist to go and ask an atheist a question to verify your own ridiculous posts. You make no sense, then you tell him to go ask someone else who isn't even related to the topic, which makes even less sense, and the person you want him to ask turns out to be himself, which just completes the trifecta of nonsensical trash. Keep going Langer, I'm not sure I've laughed this hard in a while...

LANGER72
05-15-2012, 12:01 PM
High regard? Same as anyone else. It's just amusing when you tell an atheist to go and ask an atheist a question to verify your own ridiculous posts. You make no sense, then you tell him to go ask someone else who isn't even related to the topic, which makes even less sense, and the person you want him to ask turns out to be himself, which just completes the trifecta of nonsensical trash. Keep going Langer, I'm not sure I've laughed this hard in a while...

Funny, I think the same about your posts. :lol:
Just a quick question? How would I actually know he is a flaming Atheist? Duh? You guys take positions all the time.
Or, I could have meant from him to look into the mirror and go talk to himself. It would have went over your pointy head.
Why are you defending him by attacking me? I am sure he is capable of doing that himself.
Got to get back to work. You can squeal and giggle until I get back later.

NY8123
05-15-2012, 01:32 PM
Play nice.

Continue.

Locke
05-15-2012, 07:29 PM
Funny, I think the same about your posts. :lol:
Just a quick question? How would I actually know he is a flaming Atheist? Duh? You guys take positions all the time.
Or, I could have meant from him to look into the mirror and go talk to himself. It would have went over your pointy head.
Why are you defending him by attacking me? I am sure he is capable of doing that himself.
Got to get back to work. You can squeal and giggle until I get back later.

Well, that's the point then, isn't it? You are making blanket claims about a huge cross section of the population, atheists, and then you don't even know when you're talking to one. How could you possibly make a claim about an entire group of people, but not even realize you are talking to someone you're making that claim about...?

Tetragrammaton
05-15-2012, 07:50 PM
I still don't understand why you say atheists love Muslim countries and hate Israel. Leave the cliffhangers to the movies and explain already.

Dolphins9954
05-15-2012, 08:01 PM
w57JLmY5dmw

Dogbone34
05-15-2012, 08:18 PM
would 2 atheists in a room constitute an organized religion

Locke
05-15-2012, 08:25 PM
would 2 atheists in a room constitute an organized religion

Why would you think that was a possibility? Atheists do not worship a higher being, nor do they adhere to a doctrine of any sort. I simply don't see how it could be called a religion. I know people tried to call them a religion to piss them off, but it really doesn't fit the definition...

Spesh
05-15-2012, 10:11 PM
Why would you think that was a possibility? Atheists do not worship a higher being, nor do they adhere to a doctrine of any sort. I simply don't see how it could be called a religion. I know people tried to call them a religion to piss them off, but it really doesn't fit the definition...

First 35 seconds:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A41WZBcmnfc

Tetragrammaton
05-15-2012, 10:25 PM
It will never make any sense why people think atheism is a religion. Besides the obvious (no rules, no beliefs, no book), they are doing organized religion a disservice. Regardless of what religion it is, those guidelines help mold a person's belief system. Things like being against same-sex marriage, or being against abortion, or choosing to observe a sabbath come from religion. Any belief or guideline I have comes from me or people who have influenced me. And when I say people who have influenced me, I don't mean someone who I believe to be a supreme being, but rather someone who I have adopted some, not all, principles from.

It seems as if religious people think that atheists are actively going around denying God. It isn't the case, regardless of what some famous television personalities might have you believe. It is more an absence of God than anything. To me, people going to church is a lot like people who play golf - it is an activity that I don't do, and I don't think about it. We don't walk around looking for religious people to convert; in fact, the only time I ever think about religion is when someone else brings it up.

Dogbone34
05-15-2012, 10:59 PM
I was just asking. Watching Maher does make it sound like a religion. So defensive of something thats nothing.

I usually just say I have no idea about those big cosmic questions.

I could make some stuff up

Spesh
05-16-2012, 12:21 PM
I was just asking. Watching Maher does make it sound like a religion. So defensive of something thats nothing.

I usually just say I have no idea about those big cosmic questions.

I could make some stuff up

Possibly because atheists have to deal with wild and utterly false accusations all the time. You know, like when someone is completely losing a debate by showing his ignorance of a group of people he might state that atheists(another group of people he obviously knows nothing about) love Muslim countries and hate a Jewish state. That sort of thing.

A few months ago Locke posted some research showing that atheists were trusted at about the same level as rapists. A story was floated on finheaven about a 16 year old who had to get police escort from school to home because an entire community tried to attack her and threatened her life(including a leading politician there who called her "a evil little thing") for getting some scripture removed from a school plaque.

Those sort of things can make atheists a bit defensive, especially in the face of wild inaccuracy. When a group of people are identified and targetted for discrimination, it doesnt matter what their set of beliefs(and by that i mean views of the world, not religious) are, they will still feel the need to defend themselves.

LANGER72
05-16-2012, 07:52 PM
You know, like when someone is completely losing a debate

No need to get personal.

:lol:

GoonBoss
05-16-2012, 09:43 PM
Izzies are going to handle up if they see themselves in danger, and that's just the bottom line.

They've proved it time and again.

They will do it with, or without us.

GoonBoss
05-16-2012, 09:49 PM
Funny story;

Back when I was the supervisor at Bunny Friend EGS in New Orleans, after the storm (Armed security basicly. It's not as glam as it sounds)
We had an Isreali girl come to the site as a guard. I try to get to know my people, and so we talked.

I made a comment, after I felt comfortable with her...

"All Arabs understand is strength."

You should have seen her head snap around.

She looked at me to see if I was joking.

I wasn't.

And she said. "Yes."

Oddly enough, she became really unhappy at the jobsite three or four weeks later, for
reasons that even the other guards (one of whom was a stone cold snitch for me) could
identify. I had to answer lots of complaints, and other assorted BS that my bosses were
even going;

"Did you **** her or what?"

Izzy chicks are ****ing crazy.