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View Full Version : Police report: Trayvon Martin death was ultimately avoidable



BAMAPHIN 22
05-18-2012, 09:31 AM
"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely, if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern," the document by Sanford, Fla. Police said....Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-martin-death-ultimately-avoidable-florida-police-report-article-1.1080493#ixzz1vEBMTrU7

Dolphins9954
05-18-2012, 10:57 AM
The media still using that 12 year old picture of Trayvon with Zimmerman's mugshot next to it. Here's a good video of what Trayvon really looked like right before he was killed.

http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-26797925/trayvon-martin-seen-in-7-11-surveillance-video-prior-to-shooting-29338445.html#crsl=%252Fvideo%252Fnews-26797925%252Ftrayvon-martin-seen-in-7-11-surveillance-video-prior-to-shooting-29338445.html

It also shows police photos of Zimmerman's wounds right after the shooting and Trayvon's father saying that wasn't his son on the 911 tape.

I agree that all of this could have been avoided if Zimmerman had stayed in his car. You can make the case that Zimmerman was an overzealous watch guard. But I don't see any evidence of racism or 2nd degree murder. Especially with all the medical and photo evidence coming out which is only helping Zimmerman's case. Barring any new evidence we don't know about I have a strong feeling that Zimmerman will walk.

rob19
05-18-2012, 11:19 AM
What kind of deranged vigilantly goes around following "suspicious" looking people?

SkapePhin
05-18-2012, 11:26 AM
The media still using that 12 year old picture of Trayvon with Zimmerman's mugshot next to it. Here's a good video of what Trayvon really looked like right before he was killed.

http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-26797925/trayvon-martin-seen-in-7-11-surveillance-video-prior-to-shooting-29338445.html#crsl=%252Fvideo%252Fnews-26797925%252Ftrayvon-martin-seen-in-7-11-surveillance-video-prior-to-shooting-29338445.html

It also shows police photos of Zimmerman's wounds right after the shooting and Trayvon's father saying that wasn't his son on the 911 tape.

I agree that all of this could have been avoided if Zimmerman had stayed in his car. You can make the case that Zimmerman was an overzealous watch guard. But I don't see any evidence of racism or 2nd degree murder. Especially with all the medical and photo evidence coming out which is only helping Zimmerman's case. Barring any new evidence we don't know about I have a strong feeling that Zimmerman will walk.

I agree with you, considering the wounds. I never thought this was an issue of racism or cold-blooded murder, just a dumb guy with a hero complex. He should get manslaughter, but the prosecutors overcharged the case.

Dolphins9954
05-18-2012, 11:30 AM
I agree with you, considering the wounds. I never thought this was an issue of racism or cold-blooded murder, just a dumb guy with a hero complex. He should get manslaughter, but the prosecutors overbooked the case.

That's my feeling too. Even a manslaughter charge would be a mission to prove but a more fitting charge IMO.

---------- Post added at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 AM ----------


What kind of deranged vigilantly goes around following "suspicious" looking people?

There was a whole bunch of break-ins in the neighborhood which is probably why he was extra zealous.

rob19
05-18-2012, 11:41 AM
That's my feeling too. Even a manslaughter charge would be a mission to prove but a more fitting charge IMO.

---------- Post added at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 AM ----------



There was a whole bunch of break-ins in the neighborhood which is probably why he was extra zealous.

He's a self-appointed neighborhood watch guy, that should tell you a lot about this guy regardless. No one follows around people they suspect to be criminals while carrying a gun and put themselves in a situation where they can actually be in physical contact with the person they 'suspect' is a dangerous criminal unless you're looking for trouble. You heard him tell the police "I'm gonna follow him", to which the police responded "Okay we don't need you to do that", and he still did it.

Dolphins9954
05-18-2012, 11:55 AM
He's a self-appointed neighborhood watch guy, that should tell you a lot about this guy regardless. No one follows around people they suspect to be criminals while carrying a gun and put themselves in a situation where they can actually be in physical contact with the person they 'suspect' is a dangerous criminal unless you're looking for trouble. You heard him tell the police "I'm gonna follow him", to which the police responded "Okay we don't need you to do that", and he still did it.

From what I read many in the neighborhood liked Zimmerman being the watch guy and even defended him. Did you listen to the unedited 911 tape? You clearly hear Zimmerman stop running after Trayvon and have an almost 2 minute conversation with the 911 operator after he was told to stop. Not to mention that the state admits that they have no evidence to dispute Zimmerman's claim that he went back to his car. Which is going to make the narrative of Zimmerman "chasing down" Trayvon really hard to prove. I'm not a fan of Zimmerman at all and agree he should have stayed in his car. But I'm also not a fan of a media that lies and manipulates a story to create the most divisive results possible. And the State adding to the circus with trumped up charges. The whole case stinks from top to bottom.

rob19
05-18-2012, 12:12 PM
From what I read many in the neighborhood liked Zimmerman being the watch guy and even defended him. Did you listen to the unedited 911 tape? You clearly hear Zimmerman stop running after Trayvon and have an almost 2 minute conversation with the 911 operator after he was told to stop. Not to mention that the state admits that they have no evidence to dispute Zimmerman's claim that he went back to his car. Which is going to make the narrative of Zimmerman "chasing down" Trayvon really hard to prove. I'm not a fan of Zimmerman at all and agree he should have stayed in his car. But I'm also not a fan of a media that lies and manipulates a story to create the most divisive results possible. And the State adding to the circus with trumped up charges. The whole case stinks from top to bottom.

Outside of all the peripheral things like the media, and politicians trying to use it to do this, that, or the other, a kid died. A human being died by someone doing a job that wasn't his. He should have never put himself in a situation where he was anywhere within 100 feet of the guy.

MadDog 88
05-18-2012, 12:27 PM
All this evidence coming out leads one to believe that Martin may punched Zim in the nose, Zim fell back hit his head on the ground, drew a gun and fired. Just like the photos depicting Zims head injuries indicate he did sustain injuries comes the news that Martin had one small abrasion on one finger. Not what you would expect if he was throwing punches repeatedly.

Whats most disturbing is there are four previous incidents that Martin dialed 911 to report suspicious people. All four incidents the suspicious person was a young black man.

Dolphins9954
05-18-2012, 12:36 PM
All this evidence coming out leads one to believe that Martin may punched Zim in the nose, Zim fell back hit his head on the ground, drew a gun and fired. Just like the photos depicting Zims head injuries indicate he did sustain injuries comes the news that Martin had one small abrasion on one finger. Not what you would expect if he was throwing punches repeatedly.

Whats most disturbing is there are four previous incidents that Martin dialed 911 to report suspicious people. All four incidents the suspicious person was a young black man.

The suspects that were involved in the many break-ins in the neighborhood were "young black males". This is reported by many residents in the neighborhood some of whom happen to be black.

Dolphins9954
05-18-2012, 12:40 PM
Outside of all the peripheral things like the media, and politicians trying to use it to do this, that, or the other, a kid died. A human being died by someone doing a job that wasn't his. He should have never put himself in a situation where he was anywhere within 100 feet of the guy.

I agree he should have stayed in his car. But I also don't see the evidence for 2nd degree murder. Manslaughter maybe or some other charge but 2nd degree is an overcharge IMO.

phinfan3411
05-18-2012, 05:58 PM
Maybe i am out in left field here, but i believe this is another case of the internet picking a directive and then everyone following it, as if it has always been common knowledge.

Kind of like how the internet was full of document experts after Obama released his birth certificate.

I hate to follow the herd, so let me offer this: I do not think the actions taken by Zimmerman up to the confrontation, from how i understand it, to be way out in left field.

You guys are telling me that spotting a suspicious teen, not from the neighborhood, walking around in the rain, looking at houses, and what not, and then calling the police to report it is strange? I can see myself doing it.

Then the next step, never envisioning this turning out to be a huge confrontation, wanting the police to be able to question this person, i am supposed to believe everyone would sit in their cars as this person disappeared from view while you did NOTHING to see where he was headed?

I honestly can see myself doing this, not in a get right behind the person type of way, just a i'm going to pretend i am doing something until you are out of sight, then i am going to go to the point i last spotted you to see if i can see where you were headed. Is this such a strange thing? I swear i see it on the news everyday, guy here followed a drunk driver, that hit a person (not a perfect comparison), and got him to pull over. You really think anything will get done if you rely on the police for everything?? NOTHING.

Is it really "following", or "stalking" if you move your vantage point to another where there is a better angle to see where the person was going?

If Zimmerman wanted to confront Martin, wouldn't he had done it right at the beginning of the 911 call when he told the operator he is staring at me now?

Seriously, would that not have been the time?

From the UNCUT 911 call, it seemed to me that Zimmerman was not overzealous at all, if you remember he did not want to give out his address for fear that Martin was close, and would overhear him.

Also the fact that Martin TOWERED over him, does that make sense that Zimmerman would push a confrontation?

I am sorry, from the evidence i have seen, imo most of Zimmerman's story seems to check out.

I am not going to say i agree with everything Zimmerman did, this case makes me sick, mostly because it is NOT WORTH ALL THIS ATTENTION.

Black gangs kill each other like it is going out of style here in downtown Buffalo, a " walk by" shooting just happened last weekend in MLK park with many innocent children, and young adults that appeared to have their crap together, and i doubt any of you heard about it because the shooter was reported to be black.

It angers me as i wonder why Trayvon Martin was supposedly so much more important than the mentally handicapped man shot in Arizona at a Taco Bell drive through, while armed with a deadly leash....he was walking his dog, in fact, what makes him any more important than the hundreds of young men killed between then and now?

I should not know his name, but i do.

Vaark
05-19-2012, 09:19 AM
IMO, while I think the race baiting attention whoring, rabble rousing "reverend" types amped this sad situation up as a cause celebre to a fever pitch strictly because the victim who may or may not have had some culpability was African American and likely would have still been defending Trayvon if the circumstances were reversed and it was Zimmerman on the ground, this nevertheless was still mostly on Zimmerman.

No way should he have gone out doing his Dick Tracy imitation with a loaded weapon. One of the Watch Group stipulations should be that their watchdogs be armed with stun guns at most. Beyond that, Zim should have either stayed in his car or positioned himself to take a pic of Trayvon's face for re-circulation to the LEAs before then safely retreating to a neutral position like his car. It should not have escalated as it did. When a 17 year old kid, feeling his oats, with hormones raging, minding his own business is in your face type threatened, he's most likely gonna feel all full of piss and vinegar and react physically. Sure he wasn't an angel, but at that age many kids aren't and factually, none of his transgressions were all that serious. Hell, I hate to admit it but when my son was that age, his juvie record (now thankfully sealed) was a helluva lot more damning.

This was a sad situation all around. The rushing to judgment lynch mob mentality on one side brings out the sympathy for Zimmerman, making him appear the aggrieved party, whether it's totally warranted or not. Hell, that azzhole Spike Lee posting what he thought was Zim's address knowing the full repercussions is all you've gotta know about that. IMO he should be charged with an "inciting to riot" felony himself!

Relatedly, the last poster is correct; there's no comparable ratcheting up of sentiment or demonstrations in support of that poor mentally challenged white guy walking his dog in Phoenix, nor has his mother been giving (to the best of my knowledge) 6 months paid leave to grieve and remonstrate. It's all infuriating. No one's hands are clean. Like most everything else in life, pardon the pun, very little is black and white: the reality usually lives somewhere in that middle 80% gray area.

LANGER72
05-19-2012, 10:13 AM
If Martin would have just left the area of initial confrontation for the crib where is was staying, instead of returning to fight Zimmerman, he would still be alive to continue burglarizing the hood.

Locke
05-19-2012, 12:02 PM
If Martin would have just left the area of initial confrontation for the crib where is was staying, instead of returning to fight Zimmerman, he would still be alive to continue burglarizing the hood.

How very objective of you. Glad to see ignorance is alive and well...

LANGER72
05-19-2012, 12:29 PM
How very objective of you. Glad to see ignorance is alive and well...


http://www.angelfire.com/home/lake/images/fisherman5.gif

rob19
05-19-2012, 12:35 PM
I hate to follow the herd, so let me offer this: I do not think the actions taken by Zimmerman up to the confrontation, from how i understand it, to be way out in left field.

You guys are telling me that spotting a suspicious teen, not from the neighborhood, walking around in the rain, looking at houses, and what not, and then calling the police to report it is strange? I can see myself doing it.

Then the next step, never envisioning this turning out to be a huge confrontation, wanting the police to be able to question this person, i am supposed to believe everyone would sit in their cars as this person disappeared from view while you did NOTHING to see where he was headed?

I honestly can see myself doing this, not in a get right behind the person type of way, just a i'm going to pretend i am doing something until you are out of sight, then i am going to go to the point i last spotted you to see if i can see where you were headed. Is this such a strange thing? I swear i see it on the news everyday, guy here followed a drunk driver, that hit a person (not a perfect comparison), and got him to pull over. You really think anything will get done if you rely on the police for everything?? NOTHING.

Is it really "following", or "stalking" if you move your vantage point to another where there is a better angle to see where the person was going?

Dude, as a civilian you can't go around putting every person you think is suspicious under citizens arrest. If someone other than a Police officer tried to detain me for questioning I'd tell them to **** off.


From the UNCUT 911 call, it seemed to me that Zimmerman was not overzealous at all, if you remember he did not want to give out his address for fear that Martin was close, and would overhear him.

Also the fact that Martin TOWERED over him, does that make sense that Zimmerman would push a confrontation?

I don't know how being within earshot of the guy you suspect to be a criminal while you're trying to report him to the police is a credit to Zimmerman. Nor would I be afraid of a skinny kid with a couple inches on me if I knew I had a loaded gun.

phinfan3411
05-19-2012, 02:52 PM
Dude, as a civilian you can't go around putting every person you think is suspicious under citizens arrest. If someone other than a Police officer tried to detain me for questioning I'd tell them to **** off.



I don't know how being within earshot of the guy you suspect to be a criminal while you're trying to report him to the police is a credit to Zimmerman. Nor would I be afraid of a skinny kid with a couple inches on me if I knew I had a loaded gun.


Where did i say he should put him under citizens arrest?

I am not sure you guys are understanding how this works, you do not have to catch someone in the act to stop a burglary, or other crime.

What do you think Zimmerman was trying to accomplish?

He was trying to get the police there to check this unknown out, if he wanted to mess with him, why in the hell would he call the cops?

Now let me ask you how long do you think it takes the police to respond to a call like this?

I will not come to his defense over carrying his gun on this duty, even though he said he wasn't actually on "duty". I am a gun owner, and mostly because of my training, I have chosen not to carry, but trying to get a better location on a person he wants checked out, i'm sorry is not at all out of the norm, happens all the time.

By the way, I for one have little confidence in the police, i agree with your opinions on the other thread with the police beating that man on camera, i just happen to think Zimmerman, although he was partially to blame here, has gotten railroaded. His actions alone have been broken down under the microscope, even though it appears Martin was on top of him wailing on him, with Zimmerman crying for help, i have NO words to describe that, if my son had done that to someone, who he thought was following him, i would be wondering how i raised a thug, no excuse for that imo.