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Dolphins9954
05-30-2012, 08:52 AM
Enter my friend the "socialist conservative."

Ok, that term isn't entirely accurate, so a bit of clarification is in order. I have heard people use many terms to describe this inconsistent type of person as a "tea party collectivist," "big government Republican" or "corporate statist." All fall in the vein of someone who says, I want to cut spending and limit government, except for Medicare or Social Security - I paid into those.

Another giveaway is the person who calls for a constitutionally limited government, but is ok with an unconstitutional war on drugs or regular encroachment on civil liberties. As long as it doesn't inhibit their particular view of the world, the "socialist conservative" is all for it.

Veronique de Rugy recently called out many Republicans for being "pro-business," but not actually "pro-market." Yes, they are very different. These are the people who are ok with selective tax cuts, bailouts or subsidies for individual (and coincidentally well connected) corporations. A friend of mine, who shall remain nameless to protect him from future criticism, calls this whole phenomenon of double speak with a straight face - "tea party hypocrisy."

I shared just a few examples of policy above, but there are many which divide groups and people who are supposedly "conservative" - undeclared (therefore unconstitutional) wars and foreign interventions, the Patriot Act (unconstitutional search and seizure), NDAA and Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act (basically eradication of the 4th and 14th amendments), war on drugs, entitlement programs, etc, etc.

On these policies and a great many more - "limited government" or "constitutional" receives a very subjective interpretation. They'll even tell you how the commerce clause justifies their respective policies to move forward, but not Obama's healthcare mandate. I'm always left puzzled by these inconsistent positions, as I'm left with "socialist conservatives."
During the peak of the Republican Presidential primary, I noticed a trend that a great number of these individuals expressed support for some pretty squishy candidates - even complimenting them for their strong defense of the Constitution or history of fiscally responsible choices....stop the music, what did they say??

Santorum is the same guy who said, "The STATE should limit individual's wants and passions." Romney is the guy who brought us a STATE mandated healthcare system, and Gingrich's list of big STATE solutions is so long that it's difficult to pick just one.

These types of "socialist conservatives" brought us a 104% increase in federal spending during the Bush Presidency alone. They voted to raise the debt ceiling again and again, voted for the largest government healthcare expansion in 30 years, the largest stimulus plan in American history to date with Bush's "Economic Stimulus Act," the largest infringement on the free market system in world history through corporate bailouts and one of the largest federal overreaches in American history in No Child Left Behind.

Many came before them, and many will come after who push fiscal insanity, modified socialist policies and regular attacks on personal freedom. That should be enough for "conservative" people to cringe in disgust, but they don't, and for this I remain stunned. Have these new "socialist conservatives" abandoned the Goldwater approach to conservatism when he said, "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them....And if I should later be attacked for neglecting my constituents' "interests," I shall reply that I was informed that their main interest is liberty and that in that cause I am doing the very best I can."

It became pretty clear in the Presidential primary that too many "conservatives" want to get rid of the villain, but aren't actually ready for a view of the world truly rooted in individualism and self-ownership. True and legitimate constitutionally restrained government means letting go of the moral systems imposed by government, and also accepting the fact that it isn't government's role to control what substances go into our bodies or people who come into our bedroom. This seems a tough bridge for many to cross.

For all the talk that the tea party protests were about principles over party and ideas over candidates - much of it seems to have gone out the door. Much of it has turned out to be hyperbolic oratory to just feign the desire to shrink the STATE, but not really shrink it - really just tweak it a bit.

The "socialist conservatives" choose to embrace a stronger STATE as long as it's a version of the STATE more conducive to their world view, or at least self-serving to their bank accounts (IE: entitlements). And this is where the principles disappear. This is where my heart truly breaks because no one is considering the consequences.............



http://www.dailypaul.com/236911/are-you-a-socialist-conservative

LANGER72
05-30-2012, 04:11 PM
Maybe Ron Paul can get the nomination next time...:rolleyes2:.
Folks have been paying into this machine created by the democratic elitist's for decades. The plug cannot be pulled over night.
Those who have paid their due deserve what they have paid for. I have been paying into this mess since 1975.

Dolphins9954
05-31-2012, 12:45 PM
Maybe Ron Paul can get the nomination next time...:rolleyes2:.
Folks have been paying into this machine created by the democratic elitist's for decades. The plug cannot be pulled over night.
Those who have paid their due deserve what they have paid for. I have been paying into this mess since 1975.

No the GOP once again puts up another crap candidate.

SS and Medicare will abolish itself eventually but it's much bigger than that. For me Romney is a great example of a socialist conservative. Preaching about small government and the debt while supporting the bailouts and fathering the monster Obamacare. Those 2 things alone should keep him anywhere near the words conservative. If you look at all the massive expansion of government and spending over the last 12 years you will see that Romney supports just about all of it. From the bailouts, health insurance mandates, stimulus bills, No Child Left Behind, Department of Homeland Security, All the wars(which added trillions to the debt), expanding the already unfundable military budgets, NDAA, Patriot Act, Gitmo, torture, suspension of habaes corpous, warrantless searches and the War on Drugs.

Where is the conservative????

Tetragrammaton
05-31-2012, 01:51 PM
There is nothing socialist about either Mitt Romney or Barack Obama. It isn't welfare for all people; it is welfare for the rich and moneyed interests.

Dolphins9954
05-31-2012, 02:35 PM
There is nothing socialist about either Mitt Romney or Barack Obama. It isn't welfare for all people; it is welfare for the rich and moneyed interests.

I agree 100%. The "socialist" tag is more a play on words since so many on the right refer to Obama as a socialist while ignoring that Bush and Romney support a lot of the same policies.

Tetragrammaton
05-31-2012, 03:22 PM
I agree 100%. The "socialist" tag is more a play on words since so many on the right refer to Obama as a socialist while ignoring that Bush and Romney support a lot of the same policies.

I can understand that. The Republicans shout capitalism from the rooftops, but they believe in the same sort of top-level corporate welfare that the Democrats do. It is a free market at the bottom, but a revolving door of the oligarchy at the top.

LANGER72
05-31-2012, 07:04 PM
No the GOP once again puts up another crap candidate.

SS and Medicare will abolish itself eventually but it's much bigger than that. For me Romney is a great example of a socialist conservative. Preaching about small government and the debt while supporting the bailouts and fathering the monster Obamacare. Those 2 things alone should keep him anywhere near the words conservative. If you look at all the massive expansion of government and spending over the last 12 years you will see that Romney supports just about all of it. From the bailouts, health insurance mandates, stimulus bills, No Child Left Behind, Department of Homeland Security, All the wars(which added trillions to the debt), expanding the already unfundable military budgets, NDAA, Patriot Act, Gitmo, torture, suspension of habaes corpous, warrantless searches and the War on Drugs.

Where is the conservative????


Compared to Ron Paul, Romney is a liberal, and Obama is a Marxist. What is happening in the country is that the moderates who comprise the majority of the independent, republican and democratic party are swinging away from Obama. The types of campaign ads that the Obama is running is turning the majority off. His record, and they shenanigans of the democratic controlled congress 2 years ago are still fresh.The same folks that put him in office are removing him. Romney is far from a conservative, but he is our best hope for some type of recovery...which is in everyone's interest.
Just my opinion.

LANGER72
05-31-2012, 07:08 PM
I can understand that. The Republicans shout capitalism from the rooftops, but they believe in the same sort of top-level corporate welfare that the Democrats do. It is a free market at the bottom, but a revolving door of the oligarchy at the top.

True.
The rich and powerful always control the game. It has not changed since man started walking on 2 legs.
Politics is the easiest way to gain power. Just lie your azz off, kiss babies, and promise the moon and get into power. Making billions of dollars is just to hard to do to join the club.

Dolphins9954
05-31-2012, 07:52 PM
Compared to Ron Paul, Romney is a liberal, and Obama is a Marxist. What is happening in the country is that the moderates who comprise the majority of the independent, republican and democratic party are swinging away from Obama. The types of campaign ads that the Obama is running is turning the majority off. His record, and they shenanigans of the democratic controlled congress 2 years ago are still fresh.The same folks that put him in office are removing him. Romney is far from a conservative, but he is our best hope for some type of recovery...which is in everyone's interest.
Just my opinion.

Yeah more tax cuts and wars while expanding the already unfundable military budget will do the trick.

LANGER72
05-31-2012, 07:59 PM
Yeah more tax cuts and wars while expanding the already unfundable military budget will do the trick.

What wars? They are winding down. As the troops come home, the military budget is reduced.
Tax cuts and spending cuts! :up:

Dolphins9954
05-31-2012, 08:11 PM
What wars? They are winding down. As the troops come home, the military budget is reduced.
Tax cuts and spending cuts! :up:

So what Romney said just the other day about our military having to be more of a policeman of the world while calling for more military spending. Not to mention all that Iran prick-waving and just recently calling for a Syria intervention was all just make believe?

Dolphins9954
05-31-2012, 08:25 PM
World not safe, needs US military – Romney


The world is a dangerous place and needs a dominant US army to keep it in check, presidential candidate Mitt Romney has decreed. If elected, he promised to maintain military might with “no comparable power anywhere in the world.”

The Republican candidate addressed a 5,000-strong San Diego crowd at a Memorial Day event to honor those who died serving in the US military.

He warned Americans of the perils of a shrinking military, citing the growing threats of Iran, Pakistan, China and Russia.

"I wish I could tell you that the world is a safe place. It's not," Romney said to the gathered crowd.

Although he did not refer to his electoral rival by name, Romney’s policies contradicted those planned by President Obama.

The Obama administration intends to scale down the US military and withdraw troops from Afghanistan by 2014.

"We have two courses we can follow: One is to follow the pathway of Europe. To shrink our military smaller and smaller to pay for our social needs. And they of course rely on the strength of America and they hope for the best,” said Romney.

He added that America should maintain its dominance as the strongest military in the world so that the nation could not only win wars, but also prevent them.

Romney was later joined by US Senator John McCain who praised the republican candidate, lauding him as "fully qualified to be commander in chief."

"He believes in American exceptionalism," McCain said. "He believes the 21st century will also be an American century."

Romney’s pro-military sentiment was received with cheers and applause by the war veterans who had gathered for Memorial Day. San Diego is home to the US Navy’s Pacific Fleet and boasts the largest such military community on the US’s West coast.

Romney has consistently criticized the Obama administration’s military policy, targeting planned budget cuts and the president policy to the crisis in Syria. The presidential hopeful said the US’s current strategy to the conflict only gives embattled Syrian President Bashar al Assad more time to crackdown on protestors.


http://rt.com/usa/news/romney-military-power-safe-449/


Sounds like a great plan to get those budgets balanced and debts paid off.

Valandui
06-01-2012, 06:20 AM
There is nothing socialist about either Mitt Romney or Barack Obama. It isn't welfare for all people; it is welfare for the rich and moneyed interests.

Which just goes to show that the ultimate goal is the erosion of the middle class.

LANGER72
06-01-2012, 08:54 AM
World not safe, needs US military – Romney



http://rt.com/usa/news/romney-military-power-safe-449/


Sounds like a great plan to get those budgets balanced and debts paid off.

I do not disagree with his plans or assessment. The military should be funded and deployed as needed.
There is much waste elsewhere in government. Some of those regulatory agencies that interfere with growth can be cut.
There is a lot of waste, unnecessary departments, fraud, and excessive entitlement that can be eliminated before talk of cutting the military. Essentially, shrink the size of government first.

Dolphins9954
06-01-2012, 10:40 AM
I do not disagree with his plans or assessment. The military should be funded and deployed as needed.
There is much waste elsewhere in government. Some of those regulatory agencies that interfere with growth can be cut.
There is a lot of waste, unnecessary departments, fraud, and excessive entitlement that can be eliminated before talk of cutting the military. Essentially, shrink the size of government first.

Expanding an already bloated and unfundable military budget and making our military even more of a policeman of the world. Will cancel out any attempt to balance our budgets and pay off any debt. In short Romney will continue the deficits and debt if he becomes president. This isn't counting all the other spending he will increase as president as well. Let's not forget that this is a man who supports government interventions like bailouts and Romneycare. Believing that Romney will cut government spending and balance budgets is a total pipedream.

CedarPhin
06-01-2012, 02:04 PM
The Socialists in the GOP would rather cut everything at home and worry about escalating wars/military overseas because it's "patriotic".

Roads going bad? Who cares? There's Iranians to explode overseas! Have you heard about that people zoo in Myanmar? We're going to need to fix that one too. Don't like it? Well, you probably hate the troops then, and are a no good Communist/Marxist/Anti-American POS, and you can giiiiiiiiiit out!

No taxes either, we're going to fund these military campaigns with good ol' deficit spending. To be responsible and pay for military adventures with taxes would otherwise be anti-American as well, and to even suggest raising taxes, just a little bit, should be cause enough to put you in a holding cell done in by the thought police. You'll hate taxes too, soon enough, they'll make sure of it.

LANGER72
06-01-2012, 08:45 PM
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_budget

The pensions eat almost 1/4 of the budget. That is a great place to start cutting.

phins_4_ever
06-02-2012, 03:49 PM
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_budget

The pensions eat almost 1/4 of the budget. That is a great place to start cutting.

Spoken like a true war monger. Cut SS to 'afford' and finance foreign wars.

That you create another poverty group seems to go by you. Who cares right? Just old people who rely on social security because they are lazy bums. Let them starve to death. Talking about 'death panel'.

Laughable....

CedarPhin
06-02-2012, 05:36 PM
There's dark, uncivilized people to blow up, screw the rest of the US!

LANGER72
06-03-2012, 12:04 PM
Spoken like a true war monger. Cut SS to 'afford' and finance foreign wars.

That you create another poverty group seems to go by you. Who cares right? Just old people who rely on social security because they are lazy bums. Let them starve to death. Talking about 'death panel'.

Laughable....


You are laughable..constantly trying to extrapolate something from nothing. Where did I mention social security? Pensions is a broad swath of spending.
Millions have paid into social security..including myself for over 35 years..I want my money. It is not their money..it is my god dam money.
What I am taking about is the huge government retirements, double dipping government employees, exorbitant health and retirement benefits to every level of government worker...especially at the top of the food chain. Wasteful spending..every segment of the government runs with a blank checkbook like the GSA. Living large at the expense of the tax payer. This is where the savings are. The military needs that kind of scrutiny too. To much excess.
Death panels...war monger...poverty...old people...lazy bums....starve...death....amazing how you can paint such garbage in a couple of sentences.

---------- Post added at 12:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 PM ----------


There's dark, uncivilized people to blow up, screw the rest of the US!


Just wow..:lol: