PDA

View Full Version : George Zimmerman Passed Police Lie Detector Test Day After Trayvon Martin Killing



Dolphins9954
06-27-2012, 09:56 AM
A day after killing Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman passed a police lie detector test when asked if he confronted the teenager and whether he feared for his life “when you shot http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/06/zimmermangnew-1.jpgthe guy,” according to documents released today by Florida prosecutors.

According to a “confidential report” (http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/gzimmerman1.jpg) prepared by the Sanford Police Department, Zimmerman, 28, willingly submitted to a computer voice stress analyzer (CVSA) “truth verification” on February 27. Investigators concluded that he “has told substantially the complete truth in regards to this examination.”

Zimmerman, the report noted, “was classified as No Deception Indicated (NDI).”

Along with questions (http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/gzimmerman2.jpg) about whether his first name was George and if it was Monday, Zimmerman was asked, “Did you confront the guy you shot?’ He answered, “No.” He was also asked, “Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy.” Zimmerman replied, “Yes.”

Before the CVSA test, Zimmerman--who was apparently not accompanied by legal counsel--signed a Sanford Police Department release (http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/zimmermanrelease.jpg) stating that he was undergoing the examination “voluntarily, without duress, coercion, threat or promise.”

The lie detector test was requested by Chris Serino, a homicide investigator with the Sanford Police Department




http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/george-zimmerman-lie-detector-421395



Interesting.

LANGER72
06-27-2012, 10:01 AM
It looks good for his acquittal. The amount of evidence and the law on his side is over whelming. I would be shocked if he is convicted of anything.

Dolphins9954
06-27-2012, 10:10 AM
It gives more credence to why the Sanford police let him go without charges. I'm pretty sure this can't be admitted in court though. I may be wrong.

Two Tacos
06-27-2012, 10:19 AM
CVSA is horrible inaccurate and not admissible in court.

http://policelink.monster.com/training/articles/1933-the-computerized-voice-stress-analyzer-cvsa



Results: “The decision accuracy utilizing the traditional polygraph and its procedures was significantly higher than that of the CVSA approach.”A Comparison of Accuracy Rates Between Detection of Deception Examinations Using the Polygraph and the Computer Voice Stress Analyzer in a Mock Crime Scenario, 1996. Victor Cestaro, Department of Defense Polygraph Institute.Results: “The data analysis indicate that within the test paradigm used in this study, neither the polygraph nor the CVSA test chart evaluators were able to reliably differentiate between truthful responses and deception at levels greater than chance.”Effectiveness of Detection of Deception Examinations Using the Computer Voice Stress Analyzer (CVSA), 1998. Michael Janniro and Victor Cestaro.Results: “In summary, although there is evidence to support the basic electrical theory of operation of theCVSA, the instrument failed to function in a manner that would allow examiners to discriminate between truthful and deceptive test subjects.”The average accuracy rate of the CVSA in these studies was 38.7%.

Dolphins9954
06-27-2012, 10:28 AM
CVSA is horrible inaccurate and not admissible in court.

http://policelink.monster.com/training/articles/1933-the-computerized-voice-stress-analyzer-cvsa

I wonder why police still use it then? These studies were done well over a decade ago. I wonder if things have changed since then. Maybe they use them to get false results on purpose? Either way it dispells the "racist" police theory and shows that the Sanford police did all they can to get Zimmerman but had to let him go.

Two Tacos
06-27-2012, 11:23 AM
I wonder why police still use it then? These studies were done well over a decade ago. I wonder if things have changed since then. Maybe they use them to get false results on purpose? Either way it dispells the "racist" police theory and shows that the Sanford police did all they can to get Zimmerman but had to let him go.

The Stanford police recommended charges be brought and doubted his testimony, but the local DA didn't feel there was enough evidence to do so. Under the stand your ground law there was no way arrest him just because the lead detective doubted his story. There has to be probable cause that he wasn't standing his ground. Which is why he probably wins his case anyway, the only witness with as good of a view as him is dead. Won't that result be fun? More will come out as it goes to trial, so who really knows...

My limited understanding is that CVSA has proven to work in interrogation, ie "look at this bump on the screen we know your a lair" to get someone to confess. But, that there is no science to support it, and controlled experiments show that it's easier to beat than a polygraph. Stepping on a penny in your show can artificially change your stress levels and throw off a polygraph. Or any number of drugs. If I remember correctly, Zimmerman had a temazepam prescription. That would suppress anxiety right there.

Dolphins9954
06-27-2012, 11:39 AM
The Stanford police recommended charges be brought and doubted his testimony, but the local DA didn't feel there was enough evidence to do so. Under the stand your ground law there was no way arrest him just because the lead detective doubted his story. There has to be probable cause that he wasn't standing his ground. Which is why he probably wins his case anyway, the only witness with as good of a view as him is dead. Won't that result be fun? More will come out as it goes to trial, so who really knows...

My limited understanding is that CVSA has proven to work in interrogation, ie "look at this bump on the screen we know your a lair" to get someone to confess. But, that there is no science to support it, and controlled experiments show that it's easier to beat than a polygraph. Stepping on a penny in your show can artificially change your stress levels and throw off a polygraph. Or any number of drugs. If I remember correctly, Zimmerman had a temazepam prescription. That would suppress anxiety right there.

I'm sure him passing this test along with other evidence played into the DA's decision. The state must trust these tests enough to use them I would think. It would be interesting to see police results on these tests. Which witness died???

Dolphins9954
06-27-2012, 11:42 AM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/06/5LE2q-1.jpg?1

Two Tacos
06-27-2012, 11:47 AM
I'm sure him passing this test along with other evidence played into the DA's decision. The state must trust these tests enough to use them I would think. It would be interesting to see police results on these tests. Which witness died???

Trayvon Martin.

Dolphins9954
06-27-2012, 11:58 AM
Trayvon Martin.

I thought you meant 3rd party witness. For me murder 2 is an overcharge that could likely result in an acquittal. Manslaughter would have been a better charge. I don't see how you get 12 jurors to convict a man of murder 2 with all the evidence of self-defense in this case.

MadDog 88
06-27-2012, 12:53 PM
And now for the rest of the story. Police also determined Zimmerman had 2 opportunities to defuse the situation but didn't. Additionally, his actions were inconsistent with his being "in fear for his life" nor are his injuries consistent with his initial story. Of course we all know about his attempts to hide assets and his lies to the court. Such an upstanding citizen. And no, it's not admissible because it's not fool proof. It is used solely as an investigative tool.

Dolphins9954
06-27-2012, 01:25 PM
And now for the rest of the story. Police also determined Zimmerman had 2 opportunities to defuse the situation but didn't. Additionally, his actions were inconsistent with his being "in fear for his life" nor are his injuries consistent with his initial story. Of course we all know about his attempts to hide assets and his lies to the court. Such an upstanding citizen. And no, it's not admissible because it's not fool proof. It is used solely as an investigative tool.

He's not perfect by any means. But trying to prove murder 2 when you have quite a bit of evidence for self-defense will be a huge task for the state. If true someone bashing my head into the concrete will give me a genuine fear for my life. His wounds (back of the head) and physical evidence (his back wet from being on the ground) is consistent with his story. It will be a tough case for the state to prove.

rob19
06-27-2012, 01:27 PM
Lie Detector tests don't work on psychopaths, sociopaths, or people on heavy anxiety meds.

MadDog 88
06-27-2012, 01:32 PM
He's not perfect by any means. But trying to prove murder 2 when you have quite a bit of evidence for self-defense will be a huge task for the state. If true someone bashing my head into the concrete will give me a genuine fear for my life. His wounds (back of the head) and physical evidence (his back wet from being on the ground) is consistent with his story. It will be a tough case for the state to prove.Not according to police reports and common sense. Zimmermans injuries are more consistent with getting punched in the nose and falling back and striking his head on the concrete. If he truly was getting his head "bashed" against the concrete his injuries would have been far more severe.

If he was really in fear for his life he would not have gotten out of his car and when Martin asked him if he had a problem why didn't he just tell him that he was from the neighborhood watch and he didn't recognize him? Zimmerman is a liar and he has proven that in court. The real story is tarting to come out from police documents and I suggest everyone read them before declaring victory for one side or TE other.

Vaark
06-27-2012, 01:34 PM
Like some of our visiting team posters confirm regularly, "perception is reality." As such if Zimmerman's perception of the event's chronology place him in the right, true or false, culpable or blameless, i'd think the lie detector outcome would reflect his perspective and as such reveal no deceit.

Dolphins9954
06-27-2012, 01:35 PM
Not according to police reports and common sense. Zimmermans injuries are more consistent with getting punched in the nose and falling back and striking his head on the concrete. If he truly was getting his head "bashed" against the concrete his injuries would have been far more severe.

If he was really in fear for his life he would not have gotten out of his car and when Martin asked him if he had a problem why didn't he just tell him that he was from the neighborhood watch and he didn't recognize him? Zimmerman is a liar and he has proven that in court. The real story is tarting to come out from police documents and I suggest everyone read them before declaring victory for one side or TE other.

He had two cuts to the back of the head. Along with bruising.

MadDog 88
06-27-2012, 01:39 PM
He had two cuts to the back of the head. Along with bruising.
You do realize how fragile and easily your head lacetates not to mention a head wound generates a lot of blood.

Dolphins9954
06-27-2012, 01:40 PM
Florida's murder 2 law......

http://cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/trayvon-martin-murder-statute.pdf

MadDog 88
06-27-2012, 01:44 PM
Florida's murder 2 law......

http://cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/trayvon-martin-murder-statute.pdfBut what none of us know is what else does the state have. With what has been released lately and Zimmermans lack of integrity, the noose is getting a little tighter around his neck

Dolphins9954
06-27-2012, 01:48 PM
You do realize how fragile and easily your head lacetates not to mention a head wound generates a lot of blood.

Two cuts and a good amount of bruising and blood does give some credence to getting your head hit into the ground. Especially more than once. I do realize that our heads bleed real easy. Let's say Trayvon never "bashed" his head into the ground. He only punched Zimmerman in the face (which no one debates) and Zimmerman fell back and hit his head. Then why are there 2 cuts on 2 different parts of his head with visible bruising as well? Did he fall back twice?

MadDog 88
06-27-2012, 01:51 PM
Two cuts and a good amount of bruising and blood does give some credence to getting your head hit into the ground. Especially more than once. I do realize that our heads bleed real easy. Let's say Trayvon never "bashed" his head into the ground. He only punched Zimmerman in the face (which no one debates) and Zimmerman fell back and hit his head. Then why are there 2 cuts on 2 different parts of his head with visible bruising as well? Did he fall back twice?Perhaps there was uneven pavement or a rock on the concrete. Or maybe his head bounced. Hard to say but when you listen to his story and look at the small wounds, it doesn't add up and the police documented that. They don't believe him.

Dolphins9954
06-27-2012, 01:59 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/06/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_ssh-1.jpg

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/06/George_Zimmerman_back_of_head-1.jpg


There's clearly two wounds to his head. I would like to see what they looked like a day or 2 afterwards though. The bruising would show if he recieved multiple blows or not. Each blow wouldn't cause a cut but would cause some bruising at least.

MadDog 88
06-27-2012, 02:05 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/06/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_ssh-1.jpg

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/06/George_Zimmerman_back_of_head-1.jpg


There's clearly two wounds to his head. I would like to see what they looked like a day or 2 afterwards though. The bruising would show if he recieved multiple blows or not. Each blow wouldn't cause a cut but would cause some bruising at least.
Don't you think that small wound top left is inconsistent with the first cut? More importantly, why don't the police believe him?

---------- Post added at 08:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 PM ----------

And that really isnot much blood for someone getting their head "bashed" in.

Dolphins9954
06-27-2012, 02:13 PM
Don't you think that small wound top left is inconsistent with the first cut? More importantly, why don't the police believe him?

---------- Post added at 08:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 PM ----------

And that really isnot much blood for someone getting their head "bashed" in.

It could be inconsistent because it's from 2 different blows. One more powerful than the other or maybe the angle of the blows. The first picture is pretty bloody and that one was taken right after the shooting. Like I said before I would like to see pictures of the wounds a day or 2 afterwards. I've been in plenty of fights myself most of them legal, MMA type stuff and I can tell you from exp. that you look the worse a couple days afterwards.

Just to play devil's advocate. If someone punched you in the face knocking you down to the ground. Then got on top of you and started hitting your head into the concrete. Would you fear for your life or bodily injury?

MadDog 88
06-27-2012, 02:27 PM
It could be inconsistent because it's from 2 different blows. One more powerful than the other or maybe the angle of the blows. The first picture is pretty bloody and that one was taken right after the shooting. Like I said before I would like to see pictures of the wounds a day or 2 afterwards. I've been in plenty of fights myself most of them legal, MMA type stuff and I can tell you from exp. that you look the worse a couple days afterwards.

Just to play devil's advocate. If someone punched you in the face knocking you down to the ground. Then got on top of you and started hitting your head into the concrete. Would you fear for your life or bodily injury?Of course. But there is nothing to substantiate that happened. Based on your experience, taking a shot to the nose then falling back and striking your head on concrete would pretty much render you unconscious. Having that happen then the bashing being repeated do you think you could extract a gun and shoot?

You still have not answered the questions about the police doubting his fear and injuries being inconsistent with his story. That's damning not to mention Zimmermans lack of credibility.

Dolphins9954
06-27-2012, 04:07 PM
Of course. But there is nothing to substantiate that happened. Based on your experience, taking a shot to the nose then falling back and striking your head on concrete would pretty much render you unconscious. Having that happen then the bashing being repeated do you think you could extract a gun and shoot?

You still have not answered the questions about the police doubting his fear and injuries being inconsistent with his story. That's damning not to mention Zimmermans lack of credibility.

Depends on the blow. I've been hit in the nose plenty of times. It sucks. I've seen stars on a few occasions. Your instincts usually kick in and you go into survival mode. Which I see easily happening here. From what I've read Zimmerman didn't get knocked out but was definitely suffering from the blows. It's very possible even though he was probably seeing stars that he had the wherewithal to defend himself with his gun. Everything slows done when you get a blow like that.

The police wanted to charge him but couldn't because the DA said there wasn't enough evidence. So it does go both ways. Police have been wrong plenty of times. If there wasn't evidence for self-defense like you have in this case. We wouldn't even be talking about it right now.

Two Tacos
06-27-2012, 04:55 PM
Depends on the blow. I've been hit in the nose plenty of times. It sucks. I've seen stars on a few occasions. Your instincts usually kick in and you go into survival mode. Which I see easily happening here. From what I've read Zimmerman didn't get knocked out but was definitely suffering from the blows. It's very possible even though he was probably seeing stars that he had the wherewithal to defend himself with his gun. Everything slows done when you get a blow like that.

The police wanted to charge him but couldn't because the DA said there wasn't enough evidence. So it does go both ways. Police have been wrong plenty of times. If there wasn't evidence for self-defense like you have in this case. We wouldn't even be talking about it right now.

His claim is that his gun was exposed during the struggle, Martin saw the gun and said, "you're going to die tonight", and it was at that point that Zimmerman drew and shot him. Oh, and Martin was on top of him the whole time. That's the part of his story that rings the most false for me. You're fighting someone with a gun, you see it, and take the time to deliver a one liner? Then you allow someone that you've overpowered and have a full mount on to draw and fire the weapon...

Pure speculation on my part, but I don't buy it. That doesn't mean he's guilty though. There just hasn't been enough evidence that it's not what happened for a conviction IMO. If I was a juror, I'm not convicting someone on that. Not with the courts burden of proof. The prosecution better have something good up their sleeves.

Dolphins9954
06-27-2012, 05:06 PM
His claim is that his gun was exposed during the struggle, Martin saw the gun and said, "you're going to die tonight", and it was at that point that Zimmerman drew and shot him. Oh, and Martin was on top of him the whole time. That's the part of his story that rings the most false for me. You're fighting someone with a gun, you see it, and take the time to deliver a one liner? Then you allow someone that you've overpowered and have a full mount on to draw and fire the weapon...

Pure speculation on my part, but I don't buy it. That doesn't mean he's guilty though. There just hasn't been enough evidence that it's not what happened for a conviction IMO. If I was a juror, I'm not convicting someone on that. Not with the courts burden of proof. The prosecution better have something good up their sleeves.

I agree with most of that. I read that they both went for the gun when it was exposed. If Trayvon said that who knows. You're right on about the evidence. That's why I'm not seeing a murder 2 rap on this. Like you said the state better have something good.

DisturbedShifty
06-27-2012, 06:11 PM
Lie detectors aren't that reliable. If you truly believe what you are saying is truth, then you can pass the lie detector.

Forgive my spelling. This was sent from my phone.

NamathDrunkLove
07-02-2012, 01:34 PM
Not according to police reports and common sense. Zimmermans injuries are more consistent with getting punched in the nose and falling back and striking his head on the concrete. If he truly was getting his head "bashed" against the concrete his injuries would have been far more severe.

And what common sense are you referring to? You certainly aren’t displaying any in your arguments. Common sense includes context. The head is supported by the muscles in the neck. It is not dead weight. You are assuming that Zimmerman didn’t give any resistance to getting his head being slammed against a side walk. Any conscious person would resist.


If he was really in fear for his life he would not have gotten out of his car

Context?! Why would he have feared for his life at this point? There wasn’t any kind of altercation taking place.


and when Martin asked him if he had a problem why didn't he just tell him that he was from the neighborhood watch and he didn't recognize him? Zimmerman is a liar and he has proven that in court. The real story is tarting to come out from police documents and I suggest everyone read them before declaring victory for one side or TE other.

His lie does hurt his credibility, but at the same time, that lie had nothing to with the case in question. It’s not like it created an inconsistency in his story he gave to police about the incident. Using your line of reasoning, any person who is untruthful is always untruthful.


But what none of us know is what else does the state have. With what has been released lately and Zimmermans lack of integrity, the noose is getting a little tighter around his neck

From the evidence that has been released so far, do you have any reasonable doubt to the 2nd degree murder charges? It seems to me that you and others have wanted Zimmerman to be guilty from day 1. Every piece of early material that came out you and others claimed it proved that Zimmerman was a liar about the incident and he didn’t receive the injuries he claimed he received. From the audio tapes and “audio forensics experts” to the extremely low resolution tape of Zimmerman in the police station you have been wrong. I do have several questions about this case. But, that does not mean I am ready to convict Zimmerman. There is enough evidence to put a reasonable doubt in any reasonable person’s mind that he acted with a depraved mind.