View Full Version : Flat Tax
07-21-2012, 09:55 PM
What are everyone's thoughts on this? With all of the focus on taxes lately, how do you feel about a straight flat tax, like 13% or something? Seems like it would drop evasion, and you'd bring in a steady stream of income to operate with, but it is a bit regressive. I've personally thought it was a good system to start out with and then tweak as need be, but that's just my thought.
07-22-2012, 07:24 AM
personally, i'm more of a fairtax person. see fairtax.org.
i think an income tax is lame, because it relies on people to "report" their income. as we all know, many don't "report" their true income. many don't even file or pay taxes, for whatever reason.
so i'm more of one to gather taxes when one purchases items. the infrastructure is already in place to collect taxes at the point of sale, now.
so anytime those drug dealers, prostitutes, pimps, politicians spent any money, they'd help pay their fair share.
i don't think everyone is paying their fair share, currently. i'd like to try something else. it may not work, but it's better than the status quo.
07-22-2012, 08:20 AM
Better than what we have now. The IRS is despicable and deserves to die.
07-22-2012, 01:07 PM
I just visited Monaco and Prince Ranier made an excellent move when he levied a 20% tax across the board years ago. Obviously hard to compare a small economy against the largest in the world but I support a flat tax that makes it equal for everyone. The only concern I have is how the idiots in Washington would use the money.
07-22-2012, 01:42 PM
It worked in Russia, too. If anything can work in Russia, it can work anywhere.
07-23-2012, 03:04 PM
Why against and reasonings:
1) Extremely regressive
2) Everybody pays...or you end up with Europe countries that have up to 25% in black market...or think its called the shadow or grey economy as blackmarket tends to be associated with illegal stuff. The only way to get around the goal to make sure everyones paying would be to go cashless and make some harsh anti-bartering laws. LOL, my dad's head would explode if forced to get a card from those damn credit companies. The Supreme Court has made its ruling, just mandate a tax if you don't have one or aren't using one enough. If the government can do it for insurance companies they can do it for card companies too.
3) Complaints over the IRS size? At best a wash. Who do you thinks going to be making sure they get their money going around to business the taxs? You are still going to need to keep your income information and now all reciepts if the IRS audits you. And if pissed about an optional porn filter...how are you going to like the new federal IRS agency and requred tax collection programs installed in your computer, cell phones, ipads and anything electronic access to internet.
In conclusion, tax's suck. A flat tax no better than any other and you can hope and change it won't be worse.
07-24-2012, 07:51 AM
This would never work on any level. It would allow the rich to only pay their share instead of paying 3 or 4 times as much as the average American. It would also force illegals to pay their fair share. Such a system would also allow small business to again flourish, which also can't be allowed if America is too fall like those in charge need to usher in a new world order.
A Fairtax plan makes WAAAAAY too much sense to ever be taken seriously.
07-27-2012, 12:34 PM
to me the problem with a "flat tax" is the same problems we have currently. now i'm no tax specialist, money manager (i'm more like a mismanager), and i'm not an accountant, but these are the problems with taxes (current system or flat tax), as i see them.
1. governed by "reported" income, report less, pay less than your fair share.
2. lawyers will get involved and all of a sudden there are lots of folks that can afford lawyers to get their asses out of paying their taxes.
3. churches don't pay taxes, and with the proliferation of churches in the country, that's a lot of uncollected taxes.
4. wars are funded by taxes, usually to the chagrin of those that might need the assistance tax revenue would provide.
5. the irs probably employs thousands of folks working the hundreds of thousands of pages of tax code, all paid by the government (using tax revenue).
think of all the money the country would save just by adjusting the last three times in my list, whether the current tax system flat tax or even the fairtax.
and i know you guys that are way smarter than me, could probably think of another hundred points.
07-27-2012, 01:23 PM
Income disparity is at the highest levels in our history. A regressive tax -- which the flat tax or fairtax or whatever you want to call it is -- is hardly the solution to that problem.
People talk about a flat tax as a way to avoid people not reporting their income, but as eshlemon rightly points out, this sort of system leads inevitably to black markets. People are always going to find a way around paying their taxes, no matter what system it is. Somehow I doubt drugs dealers paying more in sales tax is going to fix the deficit.
If we didn't have a election system where politicians relied on donations to get reelected they might be more receptive to sensible policy but as it is money talks and bull**** walks and those with influence can buy tax policy that benefits them.
07-27-2012, 02:05 PM
I think we need to slowly head towards a flat tax by eliminating deductions and making the tax less progressive.
I am with Fareed Zakaria on the deductions that they are essentially institutionalized corruption.
There also needs to be a zero sum component that all forms of income are included not just a wage which disproportionately hurts the middle class and working poor.
The fairtax is one of those things that seems good on paper. Often touted by Right wingers.
You always hear about those freeloading illegal immigrants and criminals. Because the guatemalan working for $5 dollars an hour 12 hour days picking strawberries or emptying out chicken coops is the thing driving the deficit.
1. Unless you amnesty food from it, it will result in an increase in food prices. Therefore it will disproportionately hurt the poor.
2. Explosion of a black market economy especially in rural areas.
3. It will hurt consumer businesses as foreigners will no longer come to the US to buy goods.
I liked were Simpson-Bowles was heading on taxes. I felt they were on the right track. Obama lost a lot of credibility when he didn't support it in my book.
07-28-2012, 06:42 PM
as far as i know right now, "raw" food is tax free (milk, bread, veggies, etc). it's the "processed" food that's taxed, pop tarts, frozen dinners, etc. just examples, not by any means an all inclusive list.
with a fairtax, there is no income tax taken out of your paycheck, so there'd be more to spend, for you. as far as people coming to the us to buy goods, they'd help support our country by paying taxes at the point of sale. i mean they pay the sales tax now, so another percentage of the price, isn't too much to ask, i don't think.
and when you start thinking of all the illegal money, let's just start with your basic drug dealer, the guy buying the lexus or escalade when he has no job. he's paying no taxes currently, because, let's face it, he's not reporting his income. he buys that car, and he pays his percentage. same with the politician taking kickbacks. he buys that trip for him and his girlfriend to monaco to gamble, he's paying his share, etc.
it seems to work for me. i guess i just live in a dream world, huh? but it seems more than anything, the system we have in place now, isn't working, let's try something different! we can always go back if it doesn't work. i know you can't get the genie back in the bottle once it's released, but to keep doing the same thing expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
the main part that nobody wants to listen to though, is the people's cry to government to quit spending (wasting) so much friggin' money with wars, etc.
07-29-2012, 12:50 PM
A flat tax rate can not work in the US - period. The income levels from State to State are too different. 20% Flat Tax in Florida means a lot more hardship than in New York. It also would widen the income gap and social boundaries at this point. I am not supporting the IRS in any way, shape or form nor the current tax code but the fascination with the flat rate tax is literally born out of simple discontent for the sake of discontent.
07-30-2012, 12:15 AM
I prefer the FairTax, but a flat tax system would be much better than the current tax code we have. The IRS must be destroyed.
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