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View Full Version : Suspect Bought Large Stockpile of Rounds Online



JamesBW43
07-22-2012, 11:15 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/23/us/online-ammunition-sales-highlighted-by-aurora-shootings.html?hp



DENVER Unhindered by federal background checks or government oversight, the 24-year-old man accused of killing a dozen people inside a Colorado movie theater was able to build what the police called a 6,000-round arsenal legally and easily over the Internet, exploiting what critics call a virtual absence of any laws regulating ammunition sales.

Valandui
07-22-2012, 11:24 PM
You mean to tell me you can use the internet to buy things?

Dolphins9954
07-23-2012, 08:54 AM
Law-enforcement officials have refused to say whether Mr. Holmes bought the ammunition from multiple sources or spaced out the purchases over several weeks to avoid drawing attention.

That's a lot of ammo for sure. But considering that he had all this planned out for awhile. It wouldn't surprise me if he spaced out the purchases. Hell he didn't need all that ammo to do this. He could have used 500 rounds and bought them all from different local shops.

JamesBW43
07-24-2012, 05:21 PM
You mean to tell me you can use the internet to buy things?

Indeed. It's a good thing I found out now, I'm getting low on plutonium.

NY8123
07-24-2012, 07:08 PM
I can buy ammo buy the case right now in any standard issued US military caliber and some non issued calibers. But I find it much more practical to reload my own ammo. Much cheaper.

Dolphins9954
07-24-2012, 09:40 PM
cSy89BU1djU

rob19
07-25-2012, 12:46 AM
As per the gun-control discussion, I don't want to take anyone's guns away, it is a 2nd amendment right, but I think a federal back-ground check and a 7 day waiting period should be standard for purchasing guns; I really don't think that's too unreasonable. Colorado currently doesn't have any waiting period for buying guns.

http://www.coloradoceasefire.org/Col-state.htm

Dolphins9954
07-25-2012, 08:23 AM
As per the gun-control discussion, I don't want to take anyone's guns away, it is a 2nd amendment right, but I think a federal back-ground check and a 7 day waiting period should be standard for purchasing guns; I really don't think that's too unreasonable. Colorado currently doesn't have any waiting period for buying guns.

http://www.coloradoceasefire.org/Col-state.htm


They do have background checks though. Which should be enough IMO.


Background check applications for gun buys surge in Colorado

http://news.yahoo.com/background-check-applications-gun-buys-surge-colorado-003748284.html


I know here in Florida you have to wait at least 3 days or so until you get your gun. If you have a CWP you don't have to wait at all. IMO a background check should be sufficient enough. Even with a background check and waiting period wouldn't have prevented this.

NY8123
07-25-2012, 09:54 AM
I NYS you have to file a separate form all together for pistol permits. You are then subjected to a bevy of background checks (including the FBI) local police interview and a few others, it does vary a little from county to county but mostly is the same.

For a long gun (rifle, shotgun or other) you need to have a clean record and cannot be a convicted felon (I know some who have lost their pistol permit due to DWI convictions). The check consists of running of your drivers license or sheriff's ID with your social security number. This is a standard check used by local police offices across the nation so I am certain the fed is involved somehow.

Bottom line is simple, no one will ever know if a person who has never committed a crime is going to fall of the deep end. Unless that person communicates their intent publicly and someone can be told there will never be a way to identify the person.

Gonzo
07-25-2012, 10:03 AM
Indeed. It's a good thing I found out now, I'm getting low on plutonium.

Have you tried the Libyans?

Dolphins9954
07-25-2012, 10:06 AM
I NYS you have to file a separate form all together for pistol permits. You are then subjected to a bevy of background checks (including the FBI) local police interview and a few others, it does vary a little from county to county but mostly is the same.

For a long gun (rifle, shotgun or other) you need to have a clean record and cannot be a convicted felon (I know some who have lost their pistol permit due to DWI convictions). The check consists of running of your drivers license or sheriff's ID with your social security number. This is a standard check used by local police offices across the nation so I am certain the fed is involved somehow.

Bottom line is simple, no one will ever know if a person who has never committed a crime is going to fall of the deep end. Unless that person communicates their intent publicly and someone can be told there will never be a way to identify the person.

Yeah I heard New York is pretty strict. I'm actually going through the process of getting my CWP so I don't have to wait after I buy a gun. Not to mention carry it as well :).

rob19
07-25-2012, 10:12 AM
They do have background checks though. Which should be enough IMO.


Background check applications for gun buys surge in Colorado

http://news.yahoo.com/background-check-applications-gun-buys-surge-colorado-003748284.html


I know here in Florida you have to wait at least 3 days or so until you get your gun. If you have a CWP you don't have to wait at all. IMO a background check should be sufficient enough. Even with a background check and waiting period wouldn't have prevented this.

I'm not saying it would have prevented this particular case, I do however think a 7 day waiting period for a gun is a good idea. You don't want someone who's in an argument or really pissed at someone to be able to buy a gun that same day. It's the same as the angry letter principal, which is if you write an angry letter and don't mail it for 3 days, you usually don't end up sending the letter. Same concept.

Besides, is 7 days really an unreasonable request for purchasing a death machine? What other possible reason could there be that you couldn't wait 1 lousy week before getting a gun? Skip to 3:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0soGTmdUuuw

Dolphins9954
07-25-2012, 11:42 AM
I'm not saying it would have prevented this particular case, I do however think a 7 day waiting period for a gun is a good idea. You don't want someone who's in an argument or really pissed at someone to be able to buy a gun that same day. It's the same as the angry letter principal, which is if you write an angry letter and don't mail it for 3 days, you usually don't end up sending the letter. Same concept.

Besides, is 7 days really an unreasonable request for purchasing a death machine? What other possible reason could there be that you couldn't wait 1 lousy week before getting a gun? Skip to 3:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0soGTmdUuuw


It should be left up to the states to decide that and they do. I'm not a fan of waiting periods especially 7 days that's too long. If a state decides to have that then that's their prerogative. I had to wait 7 days for my mossberg 500 shotty which totally sucked. Now I'm getting my CWP to avoid that nonsense. In the end we can all pat ourselves on the back and think we made the world a better place with a 7 day waiting period. The truth is it didn't change a thing.

NY8123
07-25-2012, 11:47 AM
Yeah I heard New York is pretty strict. I'm actually going through the process of getting my CWP so I don't have to wait after I buy a gun. Not to mention carry it as well :).

I have looked into my Federal permit so you can own pretty much anything you want. You want to talk about background checks, wow I think the literally leave no orifice unchecked. I said **** it, it wasn't that important to me at this time in life. I really have no need for fully auto weapons anyway, semi-auto is perfectly fine with me and if I ever have the need to shoot fully auto I will go to a gun club and try some **** out and go home without all the hassle.

rob19
07-25-2012, 11:47 AM
It should be left up to the states to decide that and they do. I'm not a fan of waiting periods especially 7 days that's too long. If a state decides to have that then that's their prerogative. I had to wait 7 days for my mossberg 500 shotty which totally sucked. Now I'm getting my CWP to avoid that nonsense. In the end we can all pat ourselves on the back and think we made the world a better place with a 7 day waiting period. The truth is it didn't change a thing.

If you want to make it a 3 or 5 day waiting period it's better than nothing. If you want the guy who just found out his girlfriend is cheating on him to be able to buy a gun that same day than we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter. For you and most people, a week waiting period is just a slight inconvenience, in some other cases, it might be a potentially life saving window. I understand there are other ways to get guns if you were really determined, but let's not make it easy for them as well.

Dolphins9954
07-25-2012, 12:38 PM
If you want to make it a 3 or 5 day waiting period it's better than nothing. If you want the guy who just found out his girlfriend is cheating on him to be able to buy a gun that same day than we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter. For you and most people, a week waiting period is just a slight inconvenience, in some other cases, it might be a potentially life saving window. I understand there are other ways to get guns if you were really determined, but let's not make it easy for them as well.

What's to stop that guy from getting a bat and beating his girlfriend to death??? Or just his hands and strangle her to death?? Happens everyday. For me the notion that waiting periods will stop people who want to kill someone from doing it is a pipe dream.

Dolphins9954
07-25-2012, 12:54 PM
I have looked into my Federal permit so you can own pretty much anything you want. You want to talk about background checks, wow I think the literally leave no orifice unchecked. I said **** it, it wasn't that important to me at this time in life. I really have no need for fully auto weapons anyway, semi-auto is perfectly fine with me and if I ever have the need to shoot fully auto I will go to a gun club and try some **** out and go home without all the hassle.

I agree. I have no use for automatic weapons but the thought of my AK being auto does put a smile on my face. I'm cool with semi though. I'm currently saving up for an AR-15. After that I'll be ok with guns for awhile. A federal permit would be nice but like you said there's a lot involved.

rob19
07-25-2012, 01:01 PM
What's to stop that guy from getting a bat and beating his girlfriend to death??? Or just his hands and strangle her to death?? Happens everyday. For me the notion that waiting periods will stop people who want to kill someone from doing it is a pipe dream.

gun murders also happen everyday, 9,369 last year; 25 a day. Again I think we'll have to agree to disagree, in my opinion it's only a small inconvenience.

Wildbill3
07-25-2012, 01:49 PM
Wait periods prevent the spur of the momment murders and keep honest people honest. Criminals? they don't bother with wait periods.

---------- Post added at 12:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------


I agree. I have no use for automatic weapons but the thought of my AK being auto does put a smile on my face. I'm cool with semi though. I'm currently saving up for an AR-15. After that I'll be ok with guns for awhile. A federal permit would be nice but like you said there's a lot involved.yeah again I have to go with the responsible people are responsible. want a full auto AK? sure why not. be trained in gun safety, clean criminal record, and get a license to own one.

regency
07-25-2012, 01:59 PM
so an unemployeed student bought $200,000 worth of ammo, vests, guns, and bomb making material?? yeah sure i'll buy that. so obama is going to sign that UN smalls arms treaty in 2 days right??

Dolphins9954
07-25-2012, 02:10 PM
Wait periods prevent the spur of the momment murders and keep honest people honest. Criminals? they don't bother with wait periods.

---------- Post added at 12:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------

yeah again I have to go with the responsible people are responsible. want a full auto AK? sure why not. be trained in gun safety, clean criminal record, and get a license to own one.

For the most part I agree. At the same time spur of the moment murders happen all the time without guns involved. For me I'm cool with the states deciding this issue. Personally I don't think it's necessary a background check is good enough especially with technology nowadays.

Dolphins9954
07-25-2012, 02:31 PM
gun murders also happen everyday, 9,369 last year; 25 a day. Again I think we'll have to agree to disagree, in my opinion it's only a small inconvenience.

And I bet you that the overwhelming majority of those are from criminals not following any gun laws. I feel you man I would only support the states making this decision though that's all I'm saying.

Wildbill3
07-25-2012, 02:37 PM
For the most part I agree. At the same time spur of the moment murders happen all the time without guns involved. For me I'm cool with the states deciding this issue. Personally I don't think it's necessary a background check is good enough especially with technology nowadays.those type of spur of the momment murders, I would say the perp doesn't care if they get thier hands dirty or not. (knifes, bats, suffication etc) often they only care after the fact and try to cover it up.

tylerdolphin
07-25-2012, 02:53 PM
so an unemployeed student bought $200,000 worth of ammo, vests, guns, and bomb making material?? yeah sure i'll buy that. so obama is going to sign that UN smalls arms treaty in 2 days right??

In what universe does an AR-15, a glock and a shotgun cost 200k? Ammo is relatively cheap as well and Im sure a vest doesnt cost 197k.

But nevermind that. Bar yourself inside because the gov'ment is coming to get you.

NY8123
07-26-2012, 11:17 AM
Lost in this whole killing/gun debate is the fact that most deaths caused by guns are suicide. The argument behind the suicide is take away the guns and people will think about it longer and perhaps not kill themselves, well jumping off a bridge is pretty damn easy and there are a lot of those kicking around, I love how the anti-gun people like to tell you what other people will not do.

Just like the kid who shot up the theater in Colorado, no one "knows" what someone else will or will not do, it is called "free will" for a reason. You have the freedom to impose your will, you will never take that aspect of humanity away. It has been tried throughout time and people just will not stand to be limited.

Freedom includes the good and the bad it always will, over 6000 deaths and half a million injuries are estimated to be caused by distracted electronic related automobile incidents. No one is up in arms to remove the Ipods, Cell Phones, Radio etc...from automobiles. 1 death per 10,000 Americans is caused by Automobiles, compared to guns that is huge, in 2010 there were 8,775 murderers with guns or .27 deaths per 10,000 Americans yeah if you include suicide that rate will climb to about 1 death per 10,000 Americas but again how do you count self inflicted violence against death rate?

The bottom line is, was and always will be the help which is administered to the people who need the help. You will never be able to determine who needs help if they don't come asking or give you clues to let you in on their sickness. The writeup I will post below might be the most sensible thing I have read on the Internet in quite along time on gun violence, this piece by Michael Moore is spot on;



Since Cain went nuts and whacked Abel, there have always been those humans who, for one reason or another, go temporarily or permanently insane and commit unspeakable acts of violence. There was the Roman Emperor Tiberius, who during the first century A.D. enjoyed throwing victims off a cliff on the Mediterranean island of Capri. Gilles de Rais, a French knight and ally of Joan of Arc during the middle ages, went cuckoo-for-Cocoa Puffs one day and ended up murdering hundreds of children. Just a few decades later Vlad the Impaler, the inspiration for Dracula, was killing people in Transylvania in numberless horrifying ways.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/its-the-guns-_b_1700218.html

I have said over and over again, the guns are not the problem people our society is the problem, our core issues are what drive us to hate crimes and violence. Our desires to be the best, needs and wants all play into the society that lends itself to social problems. We have focused on being so inclusive that we have lost what made this country great, the differences of its people. It is OK to say Merry Christmas to a Jewish person if you are Christan, just let the Jewish person say Happy Hanukkah back, exchange a handshake of good tidings and be civilized people who wish good to each other but share different beliefs. Take some time to learn about Muslim practices and holidays so they can feel included into our culture, hell there isn't a religion in the US that seems to be shunned more than Muslim but I don't see anyone, from our countries leaders down, trying to change that. We built this country on the practice of immigration, Italian, Polish, German, English, Irish, Scottish, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Turkish, Indy, and the huge huge influence of all the African Nations, it is a melting pot of culture and there is frankly no other place on Earth like the US.

I have traveled all over the world, been to many places, seen many things and I love my country for its good and its bad. The strength was, is and always will be its people so maybe if we tried to fix the social issues amongst its people the rest would fall into place and we would need to assign blame to cover our social problems.

Spesh
07-26-2012, 12:02 PM
Freedom includes the good and the bad it always will, over 6000 deaths and half a million injuries are estimated to be caused by distracted electronic related automobile incidents. No one is up in arms to remove the Ipods, Cell Phones, Radio etc...from automobiles. 1 death per 10,000 Americans is caused by Automobiles, compared to guns that is huge, in 2010 there were 8,775 murderers with guns or .27 deaths per 10,000 Americans yeah if you include suicide that rate will climb to about 1 death per 10,000 Americas but again how do you count self inflicted violence against death rate?


Overall good post. But just wanted to say that texting while driving is now "banned"(against the law in many places) and someone who got into an accident, and ended up killing someone, while texting and driving ended up getting a fairly long prison sentence.
Dont think you were refering to texting specifically, but just wanted to add that some things we were able to do are now being limited.

NY8123
07-26-2012, 01:01 PM
Overall good post. But just wanted to say that texting while driving is now "banned"(against the law in many places) and someone who got into an accident, and ended up killing someone, while texting and driving ended up getting a fairly long prison sentence.
Dont think you were refering to texting specifically, but just wanted to add that some things we were able to do are now being limited.

Texting is banned as well as talking but you are still allowed to have phones in Automobiles. So the problems is only a finger tip away and you presume that people will follow a law, kinda like jaywalking the fastest way between A and B is a straight line, not the crosswalk two blocks down. The same logic holds true with phones and driving, "oh it will only take a second, nothing bad will happen".

Laws don't educate people around the "issue", laws only restrict public freedom. Laws are why this country took to arms for its freedom in the first place. Law is a restriction based on need, need is opened ended based upon opinion and opinion is open to interpretation depending on your perspective.

Laws are never the answer given the choice between education and legislation.