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View Full Version : Jets scale back Quinton Coples workload



rent this space
08-02-2012, 12:20 PM
Uh- oh...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/02/jets-scale-back-quinton-coples-workload/

Funky Fin
08-02-2012, 01:19 PM
He can sit on the sidelines with the overworked Santonio Holmes.

Kinzua
08-02-2012, 03:03 PM
And the Jests faithful were counting on Coples to surpass Aaron Maybin as their sack leader. Oh, well ...

nyjunc
08-02-2012, 03:18 PM
And the Jests faithful were counting on Coples to surpass Aaron Maybin as their sack leader. Oh, well ...

Maybin:
2 years w/ Buf, zero sacks. less than 1 year w/ Jets- 6 sacks. One of the underrated aspects when discussing the 2 teams- we are better coached.

truthbtold
08-02-2012, 04:33 PM
Sounds like a smart move to me.
Devito is a solid run stopper. Keep QC fresh to do what he was brought here for ...
Destroying quarterbacks in passing situations.

Coconutcreek
08-02-2012, 10:01 PM
And the Jests faithful were counting on Coples to surpass Aaron Maybin as their sack leader. Oh, well ...

LOL..... I sense some bitterness about Maybin. As much as I hate to say it, the Jets have the best defense in the division by a large margin.

Kinzua
08-03-2012, 08:29 AM
LOL..... I sense some bitterness about Maybin. As much as I hate to say it, the Jets have the best defense in the division by a large margin.

Maybin is the Bills version of Pat White: a bad pick made by an inept GM. He's just lasted in the league a little longer.

If Jets still have the best defense in the AFCE this season, it won't be by that much. The Bills have significantly improved their D, and the Pats have shored up theirs as well while the Jets are relying on rookie with attitude issues to be their savior. Their LBs are getting long in the tooth, their safeties are either crippled or ancient and aren't good in pass coverage, and they don't have a good pass rush. They do have good CBs ... unless they're going to convert Cromartie into a WR ... then they'll have 1 good CB.

nyjunc
08-03-2012, 08:46 AM
Maybin is the Bills version of Pat White: a bad pick made by an inept GM. He's just lasted in the league a little longer.

If Jets still have the best defense in the AFCE this season, it won't be by that much. The Bills have significantly improved their D, and the Pats have shored up theirs as well while the Jets are relying on rookie with attitude issues to be their savior. Their LBs are getting long in the tooth, their safeties are either crippled or ancient and aren't good in pass coverage, and they don't have a good pass rush. They do have good CBs ... unless they're going to convert Cromartie into a WR ... then they'll have 1 good CB.

Isn't it amazing how Buf couldn't get a thing out of Maybin and he produced for us?

There's a wide gap btw the Jets and Bills defenses, all you have that we don't is a good pass rusher. Your DL should be really good, top 5 good. Ours should be top 10 good. We have a better group of LBs and Dbs and a better guy running the defense.

MadDog 88
08-03-2012, 03:27 PM
Isn't it amazing how Buf couldn't get a thing out of Maybin and he produced for us?

There's a wide gap btw the Jets and Bills defenses, all you have that we don't is a good pass rusher. Your DL should be really good, top 5 good. Ours should be top 10 good. We have a better group of LBs and Dbs and a better guy running the defense.Yea but our defense is better then the Jets because we gave up 3 less points per game.

nyjunc
08-03-2012, 03:33 PM
Yea but our defense is better then the Jets because we gave up 3 less points per game.

and you didn't play a meaningful game from Oct through the end of the season.

Locke
08-03-2012, 03:49 PM
and you didn't play a meaningful game from Oct through the end of the season.

So that negates the fact that Miami allowed less PPG than the Jets...?

MadDog 88
08-03-2012, 03:52 PM
and you didn't play a meaningful game from Oct through the end of the season.
But we kicked the Jets ass when they needed a win.

---------- Post added at 09:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 PM ----------


So that negates the fact that Miami allowed less PPG than the Jets...?
In the land of delusion, yes.

nyjunc
08-03-2012, 04:15 PM
But we kicked the Jets ass when they needed a win.

---------- Post added at 09:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 PM ----------


In the land of delusion, yes.

you beat us by 2 pts, that's not an ass kicking and had we won we wouldn't have made the playoffs.

Locke: YES, when your team was in the race your D was horrible, out of the race they "stepped up". Our D was not very good either but our D has been a top D before and is expected will be one again. Not to mention you guys have a new DC and new scheme.

Locke
08-03-2012, 07:03 PM
you beat us by 2 pts, that's not an ass kicking and had we won we wouldn't have made the playoffs.

Locke: YES, when your team was in the race your D was horrible, out of the race they "stepped up". Our D was not very good either but our D has been a top D before and is expected will be one again. Not to mention you guys have a new DC and new scheme.

You're so subjective in your analysis, it's ridiculous. Some might say that the Phins D was night and day better than the Jets' because despite starting the season out-of-shape and, frankly, horrible, they still ended the season with a lower PPG allowance that the team that was in the playoff hunt all the way until week 17. Come on man, at least try to be objective here. Despite spotting the Patriots 38, the Texans 23, and the Chargers 26 to start the season, they still ended up allowing fewer PPG than the vaunted Rex Ryan defense. You're going to sit here with a straight face and say that the Jets defense was still better last year? Seriously? Come on man...

MadDog 88
08-04-2012, 01:14 AM
you beat us by 2 pts, that's not an ass kicking and had we won we wouldn't have made the playoffs.

Locke: YES, when your team was in the race your D was horrible, out of the race they "stepped up". Our D was not very good either but our D has been a top D before and is expected will be one again. Not to mention you guys have a new DC and new scheme.
FACT: At kickoff, the Jets were in playoff contention. It was a game they had to win.

MadDog 88
08-04-2012, 01:18 AM
you beat us by 2 pts, that's not an ass kicking and had we won we wouldn't have made the playoffs.

Locke: YES, when your team was in the race your D was horrible, out of the race they "stepped up". Our D was not very good either but our D has been a top D before and is expected will be one again. Not to mention you guys have a new DC and new scheme.The Jets D is expected to be better yet you try and pass opinions on expectations yet any expectations for the Dolphins you dismiss. You do the same thing with rookies that join the Jets. Doesn't work that way

Kinzua
08-04-2012, 07:19 AM
and you didn't play a meaningful game from Oct through the end of the season.

And the Jests lost all the ones that they played. OOOPS!


FACT: At kickoff, the Jets were in playoff contention. It was a game they had to win.

QFT.

Clipse
08-04-2012, 11:17 AM
FACT: At kickoff, the Jets were in playoff contention. It was a game they had to win.

Not even the spin meister himself can spin that one.

rent this space
08-04-2012, 11:23 AM
and you didn't play a meaningful game from Oct through the end of the season.
the other teams didn't play as hard because the Dolphins were out of contention? How nice of the jets to give up a playoff spot just for the Dolphins because they were out of it...

rent this space
08-04-2012, 11:34 AM
And we are getting off topic here, the jets are already reducing the role of their 1st round pick.
The "B" word is being whispered around camp... It's a glorious day!

Vaark
08-04-2012, 12:39 PM
and you didn't play a meaningful game from Oct through the end of the season.As compared to the 09 jest not playing a meaningful game to their opponents after game 13?

---------- Post added at 12:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 PM ----------


the other teams didn't play as hard because the Dolphins were out of contention? How nice of the jets to give up a playoff spot just for the Dolphins because they were out of it...Don't befuddled Baghdad Bob with logic.

nyjunc
08-06-2012, 08:37 AM
As compared to the 09 jest not playing a meaningful game to their opponents after game 13?

---------- Post added at 12:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 PM ----------

Don't befuddled Baghdad Bob with logic.

You mean the team that won 2 road playoff games and held a 2nd half lead in the title game?


You're so subjective in your analysis, it's ridiculous. Some might say that the Phins D was night and day better than the Jets' because despite starting the season out-of-shape and, frankly, horrible, they still ended the season with a lower PPG allowance that the team that was in the playoff hunt all the way until week 17. Come on man, at least try to be objective here. Despite spotting the Patriots 38, the Texans 23, and the Chargers 26 to start the season, they still ended up allowing fewer PPG than the vaunted Rex Ryan defense. You're going to sit here with a straight face and say that the Jets defense was still better last year? Seriously? Come on man...

Some might say and some would be wrong. Miami played w/ zero pressure to win, when they did play w/ pressure to win they were an embarrassment. Our D wasn't very good either, this is not a battle of top Ds but at least our D helped us stayed in contention throughout the season.

Spotting when you were actually in the race then shutting down dead teams like ABuf and NYJ late in the year? that impresses you?


FACT: At kickoff, the Jets were in playoff contention. It was a game they had to win.

FACT: if we won we don't make the playoffs


The Jets D is expected to be better yet you try and pass opinions on expectations yet any expectations for the Dolphins you dismiss. You do the same thing with rookies that join the Jets. Doesn't work that way

I'm not sure what you are actually saying here.


And the Jests lost all the ones that they played. OOOPS!



QFT.

I would say Buf lost all their meaningful games but they haven't played one since 2004- which they lost to Pitt backups at home.


The closest thing to a big game for Buf last year was our game in Nov in orchard Park and the Jets humiliated the Bills, you may not remember as you and your fellow fans disappeared from this board after that game.


the other teams didn't play as hard because the Dolphins were out of contention? How nice of the jets to give up a playoff spot just for the Dolphins because they were out of it...

Who said that other teams played hard or not? your team was out of the race, didn't have playoff pressure or any pressure to win games. When they did they stunk.


And we are getting off topic here, the jets are already reducing the role of their 1st round pick.
The "B" word is being whispered around camp... It's a glorious day!

Yes a week into acamp a rookie is a bust:rolleyes2:

13ktownguy
08-06-2012, 04:27 PM
They've had pretty poor drafts since Mancini left. Is that a coincidence?

nyjunc
08-06-2012, 04:32 PM
They've had pretty poor drafts since Mancini left. Is that a coincidence?

Boom Boom Mancini?

'09:
Sanchez, Greene and Slauson. Franchise QB, starting RB and starting OL. Only had 3 picks.

'10:
Wilson, Ducasse, McKnight & Connor. Starting FB, nickel back, great return man and so far bust OL. mediocre in '10

'11Wilkerson, Ellis, Powell, Kerley, McElroy, McKnight. Mo was very good as a rookie, big thins are expected in year 2, Powell has had a great camp but let's see if it translates to games, kerley was good as a rookie but has had a poor camp, McElroy could be a good backup, McKnight won't make team. Still too early to evaluate but Wilkerson looks like he will be very good.


We haven't gotten a Revis or David Harris like we did in 2007 but to get those 2 in one draft is pretty special.

13ktownguy
08-06-2012, 04:42 PM
Boom Boom Mancini?

'09:
Sanchez, Greene and Slauson. Franchise QB, starting RB and starting OL. Only had 3 picks.

'10:
Wilson, Ducasse, McKnight & Connor. Starting FB, nickel back, great return man and so far bust OL. mediocre in '10

'11Wilkerson, Ellis, Powell, Kerley, McElroy, McKnight. Mo was very good as a rookie, big thins are expected in year 2, Powell has had a great camp but let's see if it translates to games, kerley was good as a rookie but has had a poor camp, McElroy could be a good backup, McKnight won't make team. Still too early to evaluate but Wilkerson looks like he will be very good.


We haven't gotten a Revis or David Harris like we did in 2007 but to get those 2 in one draft is pretty special.

Thats quite an underwhelming list of players and whose this franchise QB you speak of? I must of missed that one.....lol

nyjunc
08-06-2012, 04:52 PM
Thats quite an underwhelming list of players and whose this franchise QB you speak of? I must of missed that one.....lol

You can really only evaluate one of the draft classes post mangini and that is the '09 one, small class but hit on all 3 players. All 3 were key contributors on team that nearly made SB.

The New Guy
08-06-2012, 05:20 PM
FACT: if we won we don't make the playoffs.


The Jets had no clue about that during the game. As far as they were concerned, they had a very realistic shot at the playoffs if they got the win. They needed 3 teams to lose and 2 out of the 3 lost. The third team they needed to lose only won by 1 point. The Dolphins beat the Jets before any of those other games ended. Therefore, it no longer mattered how any of those other games turned out because Miami eliminated the Jets first.

nyjunc
08-06-2012, 05:24 PM
The Jets had no clue about that during the game. As far as they were concerned, they had a very realistic shot at the playoffs if they got the win. They needed 3 teams to lose and 2 out of the 3 lost. The third team they needed to lose only won by 1 point. The Dolphins beat the Jets before any of those other games ended. Therefore, it no longer mattered how any of those other games turned out because Miami eliminated the Jets first.

The team was done after blowing the Giant game, if we controlled our own destiny then I would agree w/ you but we didn't and the team didn't respond to needing 5 different teams to lose.

The New Guy
08-06-2012, 05:30 PM
The team was done after blowing the Giant game, if we controlled our own destiny then I would agree w/ you but we didn't and the team didn't respond to needing 5 different teams to lose.

Then the Jets were done in 2009 and several other years they made the playoffs when they needed help getting in. You are never done until you are done. They only needed 3 teams to lose (not 5) and all had a very good chance to lose. The fact that 2 out of 3 lost and the 3rd only won by 1 point shows that. The Jets needed a win to keep their chances alive, and they couldn't even do that. As far as they were concerned, they still had a chance and came out and played poorly, just like they had the prior 2 weeks when they did control their own destiny.

nyjunc
08-06-2012, 05:42 PM
Then the Jets were done in 2009 and several other years they made the playoffs when they needed help getting in. You are never done until you are done. They only needed 3 teams to lose (not 5) and all had a very good chance to lose. The fact that 2 out of 3 lost and the 3rd only won by 1 point shows that. The Jets needed a win to keep their chances alive, and they couldn't even do that. As far as they were concerned, they still had a chance and came out and played poorly, just like they had the prior 2 weeks when they did control their own destiny.

Didn't need help in 2009, it was a win and in scenario just like 2001, 2004 and 2006. The only year we needed help was 2002 where we needed EITHER Clevelnad to lose to Atlanta or Miami to lose to NE and the chances of that happening were very good.

I get that it made your season to think you knocked us out of the playoffs so if you want to believe that please do.

The New Guy
08-06-2012, 06:40 PM
Didn't need help in 2009, it was a win and in scenario just like 2001, 2004 and 2006. The only year we needed help was 2002 where we needed EITHER Clevelnad to lose to Atlanta or Miami to lose to NE and the chances of that happening were very good.

I get that it made your season to think you knocked us out of the playoffs so if you want to believe that please do.

I wasn't just talking about week 17 alone. The 2009 Jets indeed needed help getting in. The Jets needed help in 2002 and 2004. They needed help in 2008 and 2011, but didn't get it. It wouldn't have mattered even if they did get help since they couldn't even beat Miami. After the loss to Miami, it didn't matter who won or loss since Miami already knocked them out.

I get that it makes you feel better to know that the Jets wouldn't have made the playoffs anyways, but the fact is, Miami is the one who knocked them out since their game ended before any of the other games did.

Locke
08-06-2012, 07:32 PM
Some might say and some would be wrong. Miami played w/ zero pressure to win, when they did play w/ pressure to win they were an embarrassment. Our D wasn't very good either, this is not a battle of top Ds but at least our D helped us stayed in contention throughout the season.

Spotting when you were actually in the race then shutting down dead teams like ABuf and NYJ late in the year? that impresses you?

Ah yes, everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. nyjunc, the only man in the world who is never wrong. Ridiculous.

Your stupid argument about "pressure" is bull****. Always has been and it always will. Everyone who plays in the NFL is under pressure, period. You mess up? You're cut. You're out of a job. Don't sit here and act like some teams, just because they are out of the playoff hunt, have no pressure. They have even MORE pressure because every single one of those men is on the chopping block after the season ends. Don't sit here and act like that isn't pressure, because you know damn well that it is. The only reason you're going to spin here is because you know if you admit I'm right, and you know I am, it negates your argument with everyone about why a mediocre QB and a mediocre team has been "elite". What a joke...

nyjunc
08-07-2012, 08:36 AM
I wasn't just talking about week 17 alone. The 2009 Jets indeed needed help getting in. The Jets needed help in 2002 and 2004. They needed help in 2008 and 2011, but didn't get it. It wouldn't have mattered even if they did get help since they couldn't even beat Miami. After the loss to Miami, it didn't matter who won or loss since Miami already knocked them out.

I get that it makes you feel better to know that the Jets wouldn't have made the playoffs anyways, but the fact is, Miami is the one who knocked them out since their game ended before any of the other games did.

The situations were totally different. In 2009 and 2011 w/ 2 games to play we controlled our destiny, in '09 we won our last 2, in '11 we lost our last 2. We didn't have control and needed a bunch of teams to lose in 2011.

Miami didn't knock us out from anything, the Giant loss crushed us and ended our season. If we beat Miami we still don't make the playofs but success in Miami is beating the Jets so congrats!


Ah yes, everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. nyjunc, the only man in the world who is never wrong. Ridiculous.

Your stupid argument about "pressure" is bull****. Always has been and it always will. Everyone who plays in the NFL is under pressure, period. You mess up? You're cut. You're out of a job. Don't sit here and act like some teams, just because they are out of the playoff hunt, have no pressure. They have even MORE pressure because every single one of those men is on the chopping block after the season ends. Don't sit here and act like that isn't pressure, because you know damn well that it is. The only reason you're going to spin here is because you know if you admit I'm right, and you know I am, it negates your argument with everyone about why a mediocre QB and a mediocre team has been "elite". What a joke...

I can't help you if you think playing w/ playoff pressure is the same as playing out the string.

Congrats on your great D, what a job. When they helped you get to 0-7 they were awful but man did they turn it on for the incredibly important stretch drive. Congrats on having such a great defense, a D so great they changed the scheme.

The New Guy
08-07-2012, 10:22 AM
The situations were totally different. In 2009 and 2011 w/ 2 games to play we controlled our destiny, in '09 we won our last 2, in '11 we lost our last 2. We didn't have control and needed a bunch of teams to lose in 2011.

Miami didn't knock us out from anything, the Giant loss crushed us and ended our season. If we beat Miami we still don't make the playofs but success in Miami is beating the Jets so congrats!


They were different. In 2009 the Jets got to face 2 teams (that weren't dead) but had no desire to win the game. They were not in control of their destiny in 2009 with 2 games to go. They could have been, but they couldn't beat Atlanta. They needed help to make the playoffs in 2009.

The Jets season wasn't over after the Giants game. They still had a very realistic shot at the playoffs. They had no shot after the Miami game. It didn't matter how any of the other games turned out since Miami already eliminated them. It turned out that they would have been eliminated by another team anyways, but Miami knocked them out first. Had the Tenn / Hou game ended before the Dolphins / Jets, I would say that Tenn knocked them out. But that is not how it went down.

nyjunc
08-07-2012, 10:29 AM
They were different. In 2009 the Jets got to face 2 teams (that weren't dead) but had no desire to win the game. They were not in control of their destiny in 2009 with 2 games to go. They could have been, but they couldn't beat Atlanta. They needed help to make the playoffs in 2009.

The Jets season wasn't over after the Giants game. They still had a very realistic shot at the playoffs. They had no shot after the Miami game. It didn't matter how any of the other games turned out since Miami already eliminated them. It turned out that they would have been eliminated by another team anyways, but Miami knocked them out first. Had the Tenn / Hou game ended before the Dolphins / Jets, I would say that Tenn knocked them out. But that is not how it went down.

When they took the field in Indy they took it knowing a win that day and a win next week would get them into the playoffs. Did we get a break playing teams that wrapped things up? Absolutely but we took advantage, some teams get 5-6 dead teams to end a season and don't have to face Brady, other teams get a qtr and a half of backups in one game and a half of backups(leading 27-0) in another.

If the Jets beat Miami would we have made the playoffs?

The New Guy
08-07-2012, 10:54 AM
When they took the field in Indy they took it knowing a win that day and a win next week would get them into the playoffs. Did we get a break playing teams that wrapped things up? Absolutely but we took advantage, some teams get 5-6 dead teams to end a season and don't have to face Brady, other teams get a qtr and a half of backups in one game and a half of backups(leading 27-0) in another.

If the Jets beat Miami would we have made the playoffs?

They only knew a win that day and a win the next week would get them in based on how things went in the early games. With 2 weeks to go, they did not control their own destiny. They needed help. Dead teams aren't as easy as teams that have no desire to win. In 2009, the Jets couldn't beat dead 7-9 Miami (X2), 6-10 Buff, 7-9 Jax or Atl. The 2011 Jets couldn't beat dead Miami to stay alive for a playoff spot.

Had Houston converted the 2 point conversion at the end of their game, would the Jets have made the playoffs? I know it makes you feel better to know that the Jets wouldn't have made it anyways (since Houston lost by 1 point), but the fact is, it didn't matter how that game turned out becasue Miami eliminated them first. That is a fact that can not be disputed.

nyjunc
08-07-2012, 11:05 AM
They only knew a win that day and a win the next week would get them in based on how things went in the early games. With 2 weeks to go, they did not control their own destiny. They needed help. Dead teams aren't as easy as teams that have no desire to win. In 2009, the Jets couldn't beat dead 7-9 Miami (X2), 6-10 Buff, 7-9 Jax or Atl. The 2011 Jets couldn't beat dead Miami to stay alive for a playoff spot.

Had Houston converted the 2 point conversion at the end of their game, would the Jets have made the playoffs? I know it makes you feel better to know that the Jets wouldn't have made it anyways (since Houston lost by 1 point), but the fact is, it didn't matter how that game turned out becasue Miami eliminated them first. That is a fact that can not be disputed.

Did they have a win and in scenario for week 17 in 2009?
Did they have a win and in scenario for week 17 in 2011?

The situations were nothing alike.


If we beat Miami 62-7 would we have made the playoffs in 2011?

The New Guy
08-07-2012, 11:23 AM
Did they have a win and in scenario for week 17 in 2009?
Did they have a win and in scenario for week 17 in 2011?

The situations were nothing alike.


If we beat Miami 62-7 would we have made the playoffs in 2011?

I never said the situations were exactly the same. I said they needed help as they have before. The Jets controlled their destiny against the Eagles in week 15 and got blown out. They still had a really good shot at making the playoffs if they beat the Giants in week 16, but lost. They still had a very realistic shot at making the playoffs with a win against Miami, and lost. Controlling their own destiny or not, the Jets didn't play well.

You keep repeating the same thing which doesn't change reality. It doesn't matter how the Tenn / Houston game turned out. Miami had already eliminated the Jets.

nyjunc
08-07-2012, 11:27 AM
I never said the situations were exactly the same. I said they needed help as they have before. The Jets controlled their destiny against the Eagles in week 15 and got blown out. They still had a really good shot at making the playoffs if they beat the Giants in week 16, but lost. They still had a very realistic shot at making the playoffs with a win against Miami, and lost. Controlling their own destiny or not, the Jets didn't play well.

You keep repeating the same thing which doesn't change reality. It doesn't matter how the Tenn / Houston game turned out. Miami had already eliminated the Jets.

We controlled our own destiny until the loss to the Giants. The only playoff app we needed help in week 17 in the last 20 years was 2002 when we needed either Cle or Mia to lose. Every other time we made it we had destiny in our hands the final week(if it wasn't wrapped up).

'98 clinched 2 seed in week 16
'01 win and in week 17
'02 needed win and Mia or Cle loss- Mia lost.
'04 didn't even need to win week 17
'06 win and in week 17
'09 win and in week 17
'10 clinched in week 16

The Jets were a dead team just like '08 and just like '08 if we beat Miami in week 17 we weren't going to the playoffs.

The New Guy
08-07-2012, 11:54 AM
We controlled our own destiny until the loss to the Giants. The only playoff app we needed help in week 17 in the last 20 years was 2002 when we needed either Cle or Mia to lose. Every other time we made it we had destiny in our hands the final week(if it wasn't wrapped up).

'98 clinched 2 seed in week 16
'01 win and in week 17
'02 needed win and Mia or Cle loss- Mia lost.
'04 didn't even need to win week 17 ------------- Only because Buff lost to Pitt. Otherwise the Jets would have been eliminated.
'06 win and in week 17
'09 win and in week 17
'10 clinched in week 16

The Jets were a dead team just like '08 and just like '08 if we beat Miami in week 17 we weren't going to the playoffs.

That is the point. You act like the Jets just threw in the towel becasue they needed help getting in, but they didn't need help against the Eagles or Giants and played just as bad as they did against the Dolphins in week 17.

Again, I was not just talking about going into the final week of the season. They needed help in 09 like they needed help a few other times. Regardless, the Jets did need help the final week of the season in 02 as well as 04. The 04 Jets only made it becasue Buff lost to Pitt the final week of the season.

You are not dead until you are eliminated. The 08 Jets were not eliminated until they either lost to the Dolphins, or Bal beat Jax. I don't know which happened first, so I'm not sure if Miami was the one who eliminated them in 08, or if it was the Ravens. I do know that the Dolphins game ended before Tenn / Hou, so Miami eliminated the Jets before Tenn did in 2011.

Vaark
08-07-2012, 01:10 PM
Cut the **** already. The sheep are over grazing at TGG and JI. This is the ****ing No Spin Zone

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/08/2dqqayq-1.jpg

nyjunc
08-07-2012, 01:35 PM
That is the point. You act like the Jets just threw in the towel becasue they needed help getting in, but they didn't need help against the Eagles or Giants and played just as bad as they did against the Dolphins in week 17.

Again, I was not just talking about going into the final week of the season. They needed help in 09 like they needed help a few other times. Regardless, the Jets did need help the final week of the season in 02 as well as 04. The 04 Jets only made it becasue Buff lost to Pitt the final week of the season.

You are not dead until you are eliminated. The 08 Jets were not eliminated until they either lost to the Dolphins, or Bal beat Jax. I don't know which happened first, so I'm not sure if Miami was the one who eliminated them in 08, or if it was the Ravens. I do know that the Dolphins game ended before Tenn / Hou, so Miami eliminated the Jets before Tenn did in 2011.

Buf lost(to Pitt backups at HOME by the way) before our game went into OT. We only needed a tie or win to ensure a playoff spot, we attempted a 50+ yd FG in OT which we never would have attempted had Buf won and it set up SL's GW FG.

The Jets earned every one of their playoff apps, they took care of business while other teams did not. I can sit here and say you needed us to lose in 2008 to win the division, we had control of our own destiny up until we lost to Seattle in week 16. We failed, you earned it.

The Jets were not officially eliminated but it was a dead team each of those seasons.



Here come the vaark excuses b/c he has absolutely no idea what he is watching when watching football games.:rolleyes:

truthbtold
08-07-2012, 01:55 PM
I wasn't just talking about week 17 alone. The 2009 Jets indeed needed help getting in. The Jets needed help in 2002 and 2004. They needed help in 2008 and 2011, but didn't get it. It wouldn't have mattered even if they did get help since they couldn't even beat Miami. After the loss to Miami, it didn't matter who won or loss since Miami already knocked them out.

I get that it makes you feel better to know that the Jets wouldn't have made the playoffs anyways, but the fact is, Miami is the one who knocked them out since their game ended before any of the other games did.

And we ended your season ... in WEEK 5.
At least we had a season.

In 2008 you won the Divison because Brady was out all season, and Farve tried to play through a torn bicep (which required off season surgery) the last 5 weeks after leading us to an 8-3 start. think that had something to do with the Merling INT?


This argument is ridiculous. every team plays out their schedule. the teams with the best records go to the playoffs. Period.

Locke
08-07-2012, 05:55 PM
And we ended your season ... in WEEK 5.
At least we had a season.

In 2008 you won the Divison because Brady was out all season, and Farve tried to play through a torn bicep (which required off season surgery) the last 5 weeks after leading us to an 8-3 start. think that had something to do with the Merling INT?


This argument is ridiculous. every team plays out their schedule. the teams with the best records go to the playoffs. Period.

A torn bicep make him decide to throw it literally between the number of a defensive lineman? Favre has made retard throws like that his entire career. Trying to blame that on a bicep tear is on par with some of the crap junc posts...

The New Guy
08-07-2012, 09:13 PM
Buf lost(to Pitt backups at HOME by the way) before our game went into OT. We only needed a tie or win to ensure a playoff spot, we attempted a 50+ yd FG in OT which we never would have attempted had Buf won and it set up SL's GW FG.

The Jets earned every one of their playoff apps, they took care of business while other teams did not. I can sit here and say you needed us to lose in 2008 to win the division, we had control of our own destiny up until we lost to Seattle in week 16. We failed, you earned it.

The Jets were not officially eliminated but it was a dead team each of those seasons.



I don't believe for a second that Jets were not playing to win that game. Herm was the head coach at that time. Hello! You play to win the game. :) He would have never played for a tie in OT. I'm sure the Jets wanted to go into the playoffs losing 3 out of 4. They attempted that FG because they thought it was their best chance at winning. They needed a win to insure a playoff spot and lost the game. Had it not been for Buff losing to Pitt, they wouldn't have made the playoffs. That is needing help to get in. In 2002, they were 2 games back with two games to go. They needed help. In 2009 after losing to Atlanta, they needed help.

Both the Jets and Dolphins were 8-5 in week 14 in 2008. The Dolphins didn't need the Jets to lose to any other team. They were going to play each other in week 17, so both teams controlled their own destiny at that point.

The Jets were dead because they were not a good football team. Not because they needed some help to make the playoffs. Again, they had destiny in their own hands against Philly and the Giants and they played just as bad against them as they did against the Dolphins.


You can make up all the excuses you want, but the fact remains the same. The Dolphins eliminated the Jets from the playoffs. There is no debating it.



And we ended your season ... in WEEK 5.
At least we had a season.

In 2008 you won the Divison because Brady was out all season, and Farve tried to play through a torn bicep (which required off season surgery) the last 5 weeks after leading us to an 8-3 start. think that had something to do with the Merling INT?


This argument is ridiculous. every team plays out their schedule. the teams with the best records go to the playoffs. Period.

Saying the Jets needed help to make the playoffs is ridiculous? It is a fact. In 2002 they were 7-7 with 2 games to go. They not only needed 2 wins, but they also needed 2 losses by another team in which they had no control over. In 2004, the Jets needed a win to insure a playoff spot and lost. They only qualified because Buff lost to Pitt. In 2009, the Jets were 7-7 after a loss at home to Atl. They not only needed to win their last 2 games, but they also needed the Jaguars to lose to the Patriots and the Dolphins to lose to the Texans and the Ravens to lose to the Steelers. It all happened. That is why I say you are never dead until you are eliminated.

You play out your schedule, but there is a difference between the teams that clinch early and the teams that need other teams (they have no control over) to lose in order to make it.

nyjunc
08-08-2012, 08:40 AM
A torn bicep make him decide to throw it literally between the number of a defensive lineman? Favre has made retard throws like that his entire career. Trying to blame that on a bicep tear is on par with some of the crap junc posts...

I don't make excuses, I leave that to folks like you who make excuses every year why the jets are better than Miami.

We didn't lose b/c favre was hurt, we lost b/c favre sucked.


I don't believe for a second that Jets were not playing to win that game. Herm was the head coach at that time. Hello! You play to win the game. :) He would have never played for a tie in OT. I'm sure the Jets wanted to go into the playoffs losing 3 out of 4. They attempted that FG because they thought it was their best chance at winning. They needed a win to insure a playoff spot and lost the game. Had it not been for Buff losing to Pitt, they wouldn't have made the playoffs. That is needing help to get in. In 2002, they were 2 games back with two games to go. They needed help. In 2009 after losing to Atlanta, they needed help.

Both the Jets and Dolphins were 8-5 in week 14 in 2008. The Dolphins didn't need the Jets to lose to any other team. They were going to play each other in week 17, so both teams controlled their own destiny at that point.

The Jets were dead because they were not a good football team. Not because they needed some help to make the playoffs. Again, they had destiny in their own hands against Philly and the Giants and they played just as bad against them as they did against the Dolphins.


You can make up all the excuses you want, but the fact remains the same. The Dolphins eliminated the Jets from the playoffs. There is no debating it.




Saying the Jets needed help to make the playoffs is ridiculous? It is a fact. In 2002 they were 7-7 with 2 games to go. They not only needed 2 wins, but they also needed 2 losses by another team in which they had no control over. In 2004, the Jets needed a win to insure a playoff spot and lost. They only qualified because Buff lost to Pitt. In 2009, the Jets were 7-7 after a loss at home to Atl. They not only needed to win their last 2 games, but they also needed the Jaguars to lose to the Patriots and the Dolphins to lose to the Texans and the Ravens to lose to the Steelers. It all happened. That is why I say you are never dead until you are eliminated.

You play out your schedule, but there is a difference between the teams that clinch early and the teams that need other teams (they have no control over) to lose in order to make it.

Again, there's no way they attempt a 50+ yd FG late in OT if they didn't know they were already in.

We didn't need help and again Buf played Pitt backups which I thought guaranteed a win?

The Jets controlled their destiny until that week 16 loss to Seattle, had we been in a win and in game the results likely would have been different.

We were not going to the playoffs if we won.

2002 in week 17 we needed to win and needed one of 2 teams to lose.

In 2008 the Jets were 2 games up w/ 5 to play so you needed us to choke.

I have explained 2004, there's no way we attempt a 53 yd FG w/ 3 mins left in OT if Buf hadn't already lost. From 2000-2004 Brien had made just ONE 50+ yd FG but they'd troy him out for a 53 yarder rather than pin SL deep in a game knowing they needed a tie or win to clinch.


The bottom line is some teams win games early, some teams win games late. Through 16 games the jets won the required amount to make the playoffs in all of those seasons. Whining about it is just pure jealousy.

ChambersWI
08-08-2012, 08:57 AM
Not reading the entire thread which is probably just people arguing whether or not the Jets suck, but here's my opinion on Coples being scaled back...

Not a big deal yet. Everybody knew Coples was an enigma. For all his physical talent, he didn't rack up the numbers you'd like to see. But for as big of a goober Rex Ryan can look like, he can also coach up a defensive linemen.

I remember after the draft saying I guestion how he'd fit in a 3-4 at DE or OLB and junc told me he was playing DE; which in a lot of ways his game is suited for. But you have to remember, playing as a 3-4 D-linemen is a hard adjustment for a kid playing a 4-3 his entire life; especially being a 43 end going to a 3-4 end.

So while I like any chance to rag on the Jets, this isn't one of the chances.

The New Guy
08-08-2012, 10:10 AM
I don't make excuses, I leave that to folks like you who make excuses every year why the jets are better than Miami.

We didn't lose b/c favre was hurt, we lost b/c favre sucked.



Again, there's no way they attempt a 50+ yd FG late in OT if they didn't know they were already in.

We didn't need help and again Buf played Pitt backups which I thought guaranteed a win?

The Jets controlled their destiny until that week 16 loss to Seattle, had we been in a win and in game the results likely would have been different.

We were not going to the playoffs if we won.

2002 in week 17 we needed to win and needed one of 2 teams to lose.

In 2008 the Jets were 2 games up w/ 5 to play so you needed us to choke.

I have explained 2004, there's no way we attempt a 53 yd FG w/ 3 mins left in OT if Buf hadn't already lost. From 2000-2004 Brien had made just ONE 50+ yd FG but they'd troy him out for a 53 yarder rather than pin SL deep in a game knowing they needed a tie or win to clinch.


The bottom line is some teams win games early, some teams win games late. Through 16 games the jets won the required amount to make the playoffs in all of those seasons. Whining about it is just pure jealousy.

Brien had already hit a 53 yard FG earlier in the season. Had the Jets punted ball, they would have been giving SL the ball for the 3rd time in OT. They attempted the FG because they thought it was their best chance to win. Do you honestly think that Herm was on the road watching the scoreboard and making his decisions based on what was happening in Buff? :lol: I don't think so. Herm was playing to win the game. Not only did the Jets want to win to secure their spot on their own, but they didn't want to go in to the playoffs losing 3 out of 4. You can say they didn't care if they lost and only attempted the FG because Buff had already lost, but that is pure speculation. What we know for a fact is, they lost the game. Without a Buff loss, they would have been eliminated. That is needing help no matter how you look at it.

Both the 2008 Jets and Dolphins controlled their destiny from week 14 on. You want to say that the Jets would have won had they controlled their destiny, but that didn't work against Sea a week before and it didn't work against Philly and the Giants in 2011. They lost those games because they were not a good football team, not because they needed a little help to make it. 2 games back with 5 games to go is a little different than being 2 games back with 2 games to go. :lol:

There is no required amount of games to make the playoffs. The Jets won enough games to get in, but that doesn't mean that they didn't need help to make it those years. There is a difference between winning your division and making the playoffs and needing other teams to lose late in the season to make it.

Saying the Jets needed help to make the playoffs a few seasons is not whining. It is stating the facts. Just like saying Miami eliminated the Jets in 2011. Whether they would have made it or not is irrelevant. When Miami beat them, it didn't matter what happened after that because they were eliminated. Had Tenn beat Houston first, it would have been Tenn who eliminated the Jets, but that is not what happened.

nyjunc
08-08-2012, 10:17 AM
Brien had already hit a 53 yard FG earlier in the season. Had the Jets punted ball, they would have been giving SL the ball for the 3rd time in OT. They attempted the FG because they thought it was their best chance to win. Do you honestly think that Herm was on the road watching the scoreboard and making his decisions based on what was happening in Buff? :lol: I don't think so. Herm was playing to win the game. Not only did the Jets want to win to secure their spot on their own, but they didn't want to go in to the playoffs losing 3 out of 4. You can say they didn't care if they lost and only attempted the FG because Buff had already lost, but that is pure speculation. What we know for a fact is, they lost the game. Without a Buff loss, they would have been eliminated. That is needing help no matter how you look at it.

Both the 2008 Jets and Dolphins controlled their destiny from week 14 on. You want to say that the Jets would have won had they controlled their destiny, but that didn't work against Sea a week before and it didn't work against Philly and the Giants in 2011. They lost those games because they were not a good football team, not because they needed a little help to make it. 2 games back with 5 games to go is a little different than being 2 games back with 2 games to go. :lol:

There is no required amount of games to make the playoffs. The Jets won enough games to get in, but that doesn't mean that they didn't need help to make it those years. There is a difference between winning your division and making the playoffs and needing other teams to lose late in the season to make it.

Saying the Jets needed help to make the playoffs a few seasons is not whining. It is stating the facts. Just like saying Miami eliminated the Jets in 2011. Whether they would have made it or not is irrelevant. When Miami beat them, it didn't matter what happened after that because they were eliminated. Had Tenn beat Houston first, it would have been Tenn who eliminated the Jets, but that is not what happened.





His first in the 00s, he as up and down all year. No coach would ever attempts a 53 yd Fg in that situation nowing they needed a tie or win to get in.

They attempted the Fg b/c they knew they were in and had nothing to lose.

Do you honestly think word didn't spread to the team and coaches after Buf had lost?

We essentially clinched in week 16 as we didn't have to win week 17 so we didn't need help. we won the games rewuired to make the playoffs.

The Jets were playing awful football after the ten game, their only win was a miracle win over a bad Buf team.

It is whining, you are trying to take away from the Jets reaching the playoffs. The Jets earned every playoff app and never got humiliated in the playoffs unlike a certain team whent hey used to make the playoffs.

If the Jets beat Miami they still don't make the playoffs. It's as simple as that.

The New Guy
08-08-2012, 11:00 AM
His first in the 00s, he as up and down all year. No coach would ever attempts a 53 yd Fg in that situation nowing they needed a tie or win to get in.

They attempted the Fg b/c they knew they were in and had nothing to lose.

Do you honestly think word didn't spread to the team and coaches after Buf had lost?

We essentially clinched in week 16 as we didn't have to win week 17 so we didn't need help. we won the games rewuired to make the playoffs.

The Jets were playing awful football after the ten game, their only win was a miracle win over a bad Buf team.

It is whining, you are trying to take away from the Jets reaching the playoffs. The Jets earned every playoff app and never got humiliated in the playoffs unlike a certain team whent hey used to make the playoffs.

If the Jets beat Miami they still don't make the playoffs. It's as simple as that.


The Jets clinched in week 16? :lol: You are funny! :chuckle: The Jets needed a win in week 17 to insure a playoff spot. Without a win, they needed help (I.E Buff to lose to Pitt) The Jets lost and needed help. The games required hinged on Buff. Word may have spread that Buff had lost while the Jets were in OT, but I don't believe the Jets were no longer playing to win. No coach is going to coach for a tie. Especially one who's mantra is "You play to win the game". What kind of message would that send to a team that had lost 2 out of the last 3 and close to losing 3 out of the last 4? They played to win.

If stating the fact that the Jets needed help making the playoffs those seasons takes credit away from them, then so be it. I don't need to try. I'm simply stating the facts. If all playoff births are equal to you, that is fine. There is a difference to me.

Had Houston converted the 2 point conversion to beat Tenn, the Jets still don't make the playoffs because Miami eliminated them. It is simple, but apparently not for you. Houston losing by 1 point after the Jets were eliminated does not change anything.

nyjunc
08-08-2012, 11:39 AM
The Jets clinched in week 16? :lol: You are funny! :chuckle: The Jets needed a win in week 17 to insure a playoff spot. Without a win, they needed help (I.E Buff to lose to Pitt) The Jets lost and needed help. The games required hinged on Buff. Word may have spread that Buff had lost while the Jets were in OT, but I don't believe the Jets were no longer playing to win. No coach is going to coach for a tie. Especially one who's mantra is "You play to win the game". What kind of message would that send to a team that had lost 2 out of the last 3 and close to losing 3 out of the last 4? They played to win.

If stating the fact that the Jets needed help making the playoffs those seasons takes credit away from them, then so be it. I don't need to try. I'm simply stating the facts. If all playoff births are equal to you, that is fine. There is a difference to me.

Had Houston converted the 2 point conversion to beat Tenn, the Jets still don't make the playoffs because Miami eliminated them. It is simple, but apparently not for you. Houston losing by 1 point after the Jets were eliminated does not change anything.

They essentially clinhced in week 16 since they didn't have to win in week 17.

The Jets won the games required in those particular years, everything else is just jealous whining.

Did Houston convert the 2 pt conversion? if we beat you do we make it? You can use hypotheticals all you want but had we won we still don't make it.

The New Guy
08-08-2012, 12:40 PM
They essentially clinhced in week 16 since they didn't have to win in week 17.

The Jets won the games required in those particular years, everything else is just jealous whining.

Did Houston convert the 2 pt conversion? if we beat you do we make it? You can use hypotheticals all you want but had we won we still don't make it.

They did have to win going in to week 17 to insure a spot. They only got in because Buff lost. Had Buff won, the Jets wouldn't have made it. This isn't hard.

The required amount of games depended on another team losing that the Jets had no control over. It is not whining, it is the facts.

All of that is irrelevant since Miami eliminated them first. It is a fact that you can not change no matter how much you try to spin it. The Jets had a shot at the playoffs before the Miami game, and had no shot after. That is being eliminated. There are no hypotheticals. You keep saying that the Jets don't make it anyways, but that doesn't change the fact that Miami eliminated them first.

nyjunc
08-08-2012, 01:10 PM
Obviously they didn't have to win b/c they lost yet they still made it.

Some teams win early, some teams win late but each year there is a required amount needed to win and the Jets reached those when they made it.

If the Jets beat Miami in week 17 would they have made the playoffs?

PhinzN703
08-08-2012, 01:39 PM
Obviously they didn't have to win b/c they lost yet they still made it.

Some teams win early, some teams win late but each year there is a required amount needed to win and the Jets reached those when they made it.

If the Jets beat Miami in week 17 would they have made the playoffs?

It's 2012 for ****'s sake is it not? Why do you continue to defend your team when that season is unimportant now? Tell these guys who egg you on to get lost

nyjunc
08-08-2012, 01:50 PM
It's 2012 for ****'s sake is it not? Why do you continue to defend your team when that season is unimportant now? Tell these guys who egg you on to get lost

Why? Believe or not I enjoy this.

The New Guy
08-08-2012, 03:07 PM
Obviously they didn't have to win b/c they lost yet they still made it.

Some teams win early, some teams win late but each year there is a required amount needed to win and the Jets reached those when they made it.

If the Jets beat Miami in week 17 would they have made the playoffs?

Now you are just being silly. The Jets controlled their destiny with a win. Without a win, they had to rely on Buff losing. That is not having things wrapped up in week 16.

There is no set required amount of wins needed to make the playoffs. It changes each year based on what other teams do. Obviously the Jets won enough to get in. I have never said otherwise. There is a difference to me though. The really good teams don't need to rely on other teams (they have no control over) to lose in order to get in.

How did the Jets get mathematically eliminated in week 17? Only 1 of two things needed to happen. A loss to Miami, or a Tenn win over Hou. Which one happened first?

nyjunc
08-08-2012, 03:16 PM
Now you are just being silly. The Jets controlled their destiny with a win. Without a win, they had to rely on Buff losing. That is not having things wrapped up in week 16.

There is no set required amount of wins needed to make the playoffs. It changes each year based on what other teams do. Obviously the Jets won enough to get in. I have never said otherwise. There is a difference to me though. The really good teams don't need to rely on other teams (they have no control over) to lose in order to get in.

How did the Jets get mathematically eliminated in week 17? Only 1 of two things needed to happen. A loss to Miami, or a Tenn win over Hou. Which one happened first?

You are right, they actually essentially clinched in week 15 when they won their 10th game.


In each year there is a required # to get in, we don't know that # until week 16 or 17 but there is a required # every year. One year it may be 8, one it may be 9 or 10 but the Jets met the qualifications to earn a trip to postseason in each of those years.

If the Jets beat Miami do they make the playoffs?

The New Guy
08-08-2012, 04:11 PM
You are right, they actually essentially clinched in week 15 when they won their 10th game.


In each year there is a required # to get in, we don't know that # until week 16 or 17 but there is a required # every year. One year it may be 8, one it may be 9 or 10 but the Jets met the qualifications to earn a trip to postseason in each of those years.

If the Jets beat Miami do they make the playoffs?

The Jets 10th win in week 15 did not put the Jets in the playoffs. They needed buff to lose in week 17 to clinch because they were unable to win and get in on their own. The required # for the Jets was 11 wins. If they didn't get 11, they had to rely on Buff losing which is what happened. You can pretend the Jets had things wrapped up in week 15, but that is not reality.

No, the Jets don't make the playoffs. That is irrelevant to the fact that Miami eliminated them first. I've answered your question, so can you answer mine? What event happened that mathematically eliminated the Jets?

nyjunc
08-08-2012, 04:32 PM
The Jets 10th win in week 15 did not put the Jets in the playoffs. They needed buff to lose in week 17 to clinch because they were unable to win and get in on their own. The required # for the Jets was 11 wins. If they didn't get 11, they had to rely on Buff losing which is what happened. You can pretend the Jets had things wrapped up in week 15, but that is not reality.

No, the Jets don't make the playoffs. That is irrelevant to the fact that Miami eliminated them first. I've answered your question, so can you answer mine? What event happened that mathematically eliminated the Jets?

We didn't have to win another game so essentailly that 10th win in week 15 clinched our spot.

Obviously the required # was 10 or we wouldn't have made it w/ 10.

It doesn't matter what came first, the botom line is we don't make the playoffs even if we beat you.

The New Guy
08-08-2012, 04:58 PM
We didn't have to win another game so essentailly that 10th win in week 15 clinched our spot.

Obviously the required # was 10 or we wouldn't have made it w/ 10.

It doesn't matter what came first, the botom line is we don't make the playoffs even if we beat you.

You didn't have to win another game based on what happened in other games that the Jets had no control over. 10 wins was good enough to put the Jets in a spot where they had to rely on Buff losing to make it. If they wanted to get in on their own, 11 wins was the #. Relying on the another team to lose in order to get in is not the same as taking care of business yourself.

You can't even tell me how the Jets got mathematically eliminated? :lol: Bottom line is, you have a problem if you can't admit that the Dolphins eliminated the Jets. The Jets had a chance to get in before they played the Dolphins and had no chance after they lost to them. By definition, that is being eliminated. What happened first is crucial if you are trying to determine how the Jets got eliminated from the playoffs. 1 of two things needed to happen for the Jets to be eliminated. A loss to Miami, or a Tenn win over Hou. Both things happened, so whichever happened first is what eliminated the Jets. In this case, it would be the Jets losing to Miami. The Jets didn't put themselves in position to be eliminated by Tenn via a tie breaker because the Jets couldn't win 9 games and were already eliminated by Miami. It is so simple. You can try to spin it as much as you want, but facts are facts.

nyjunc
08-08-2012, 05:09 PM
You didn't have to win another game based on what happened in other games that the Jets had no control over. 10 wins was good enough to put the Jets in a spot where they had to rely on Buff losing to make it. If they wanted to get in on their own, 11 wins was the #. Relying on the another team to lose in order to get in is not the same as taking care of business yourself.

You can't even tell me how the Jets got mathematically eliminated? :lol: Bottom line is, you have a problem if you can't admit that the Dolphins eliminated the Jets. The Jets had a chance to get in before they played the Dolphins and had no chance after they lost to them. By definition, that is being eliminated. What happened first is crucial if you are trying to determine how the Jets got eliminated from the playoffs. 1 of two things needed to happen for the Jets to be eliminated. A loss to Miami, or a Tenn win over Hou. Both things happened, so whichever happened first is what eliminated the Jets. In this case, it would be the Jets losing to Miami. The Jets didn't put themselves in position to be eliminated by Tenn via a tie breaker because the Jets couldn't win 9 games and were already eliminated by Miami. It is so simple. You can try to spin it as much as you want, but facts are facts.

They didn't have to rely on anything, they won the required amount of games need to earn a playoff spot. Whether they got 10 in the first 10 weeks or the last 10 weeks they did it.

I can admit anything but the fact is if we beat you we still don't make it. We needed 5 different things to happen plus beat Miami, the odds were long.

The New Guy
08-08-2012, 08:18 PM
They didn't have to rely on anything, they won the required amount of games need to earn a playoff spot. Whether they got 10 in the first 10 weeks or the last 10 weeks they did it.

I can admit anything but the fact is if we beat you we still don't make it. We needed 5 different things to happen plus beat Miami, the odds were long.

So, if Buff beat Pitt, the Jets still get in with 10 wins? :shakeno:

Yes, that is a fact, but also irrelevant to the fact that Miami eliminated them first. The Jets only needed 3 teams to lose, not 5. The odds were not long as 2 out of the 3 lost and the last one only won by a point. None of that matters becasue even if Houston had beat Tenn, the Jets would not have gotten in because Miami already eliminated them.

If the Dolphins did not mathematically eliminate the Jets, then who did? I've never seen anyone deny the facts like you do. :lol: It is entertaining to say the least. :chuckle:

nyjunc
08-09-2012, 08:46 AM
So, if Buff beat Pitt, the Jets still get in with 10 wins? :shakeno:

Yes, that is a fact, but also irrelevant to the fact that Miami eliminated them first. The Jets only needed 3 teams to lose, not 5. The odds were not long as 2 out of the 3 lost and the last one only won by a point. None of that matters becasue even if Houston had beat Tenn, the Jets would not have gotten in because Miami already eliminated them.

If the Dolphins did not mathematically eliminate the Jets, then who did? I've never seen anyone deny the facts like you do. :lol: It is entertaining to say the least. :chuckle:

Did Buf beat Pitt?(Pitt backups at home no less). I can say if we beat Baltimore earlier or if we beat NE but we didn't. We won 10, Buf won 9 and we earned a WC spot.

all that needs to be answered is this- if the Jets beat Miami do they make the playoffs?

The New Guy
08-09-2012, 09:06 AM
Did Buf beat Pitt?(Pitt backups at home no less). I can say if we beat Baltimore earlier or if we beat NE but we didn't. We won 10, Buf won 9 and we earned a WC spot.

all that needs to be answered is this- if the Jets beat Miami do they make the playoffs?

No, and that is the only reason the Jets made it. The Jets had everything to do with the losses to Bal and NE. They had nothing to do with Buff losing. Because they didn't beat Bal / NE earlier, or SL in week 17, they had to rely on Buff losing to get in. If not, it wouldn't have mattered if Buff won or loss, but it did.

:lol: That is the only thing that needs to be answered if you are Jets fan who can't admit how they got eliminated from the playoffs.

nyjunc
08-09-2012, 09:15 AM
The reason the Jets made it is b/c they won more games than the Bills and most of the rest of the conference. The Bills had 2 huge breaks, Chad Pennington getting hurt for us in the game at Buf(missing 3 starts and playing w/ a torn rotator cuff the rest of the season) and then playing backups at home week 17 and they still couldn't pass us.

The New Guy
08-09-2012, 11:25 AM
The reason the Jets made it is b/c they won more games than the Bills and most of the rest of the conference. The Bills had 2 huge breaks, Chad Pennington getting hurt for us in the game at Buf(missing 3 starts and playing w/ a torn rotator cuff the rest of the season) and then playing backups at home week 17 and they still couldn't pass us.

We are not talking about the Bills. You can list all the reasons and excuses of why the Jets needed to rely on Buff to lose to make the playoffs, but it doesn't change anything. Had the Bills won and made the playoffs, the same would be true about them. The Bills needed the Jets to lose in week 17 to have the opportunity to make the playoffs. They were not able to take advantage of that opportunity. The Jets had a chance to get in on their own in week 17 with a win, but couldn't. Because of that, they needed Buff to lose in order to make it.

Yes, they won enough games to make it, but not enough to make it on their own. Because of the loss to SL in week 17, they had to rely on Buff to lose in order to make it. That is an indisputable fact.

nyjunc
08-09-2012, 11:44 AM
we didn't need to rely on Buf in week 17

The New Guy
08-09-2012, 11:49 AM
we didn't need to rely on Buf in week 17

:lol: So it didn't matter if Buff won or lost? The Jets were getting in regardless? :shakeno:

nyjunc
08-09-2012, 12:16 PM
:lol: So it didn't matter if Buff won or lost? The Jets were getting in regardless? :shakeno:

we relied on being better for 16 games. we didn't need help, we were better over the course of 16 games.

The New Guy
08-09-2012, 01:05 PM
we relied on being better for 16 games. we didn't need help, we were better over the course of 16 games.

How many different ways are you going to try and spin this? :lol:

The Jets relied on being better for 16 games which came down to the final week, and still needing a win to insure a spot over Buff. The Jets didn't get that win, so the had to rely on Buff losing to make it.

You talk about Jets needing a ton of help to make the 2011 playoffs when they didn't make it, but had they made it, your argument would be that they didn't need help and didn't have to rely on anything. Too funny! :lol:

nyjunc
08-09-2012, 01:36 PM
There's no spin, over 16 games we were better and eanred our spot, we didn't need anyone to lose, we took care of business.

Again, if we needed the game there's no way they attempt a 53 yd FG late in OT.

you don't see a differnce btw being in playoff position to start week 17 and needing to win and have 5 other teams lose?

The New Guy
08-09-2012, 02:43 PM
There's no spin, over 16 games we were better and eanred our spot, we didn't need anyone to lose, we took care of business.

Again, if we needed the game there's no way they attempt a 53 yd FG late in OT.

you don't see a differnce btw being in playoff position to start week 17 and needing to win and have 5 other teams lose?

You keep repeating the obvious while ignoring the obvious at the same time. No one ever said the Jets were not better over 16 games. The Jets did not take care of business against the Rams or else they wouldn't have needed a Buff loss to clinch a spot. It doesn't matter why you think they lost. That is all speculation. They did lose which meant that they needed a Buff loss to clinch. I enjoy debating, but this is not a debate. It is you completely refusing to accept reality. :confused:

There absolutely is a difference. The 2011 Jets put themselves in a position where a loss to Miami eliminated them from the playoffs whether they got help or not. In 2004, they put themselves in a position where even with a loss, they could still get a spot with Buff's help.

Does it not bother you that you repeat inaccuracies over and over. :idk: It was 3 teams, not 5 like you keep saying. Oak needed to lose to SD (they did), Cincy needed to lose to Bal (they did) and Tenn needed to lose to Hou (Hou won by 1 point) You can see that the Jets needed "Help" in 2011 to get in, but you only allow yourself to see that because you can't admit that the Dolphins eliminated them. In regards to needing "Help" to get in, the situations are no different. Both the 2004 Jets and 2011 Jets needed "Help". One more than the other, but both needed "Help". The 2004 Jets had a chance to earn a playoff birth (without help) with a win against SL. They did not win and needed Buff to lose. If you need another team to lose in order to make the playoffs, that is requiring help.

Repeating that they got in and were better over 16 games is just trying to spin away from the fact that they needed help.

nyjunc
08-09-2012, 03:07 PM
The Jets did what they needed to do over 16 games.

AGAIN, there is no way in the world they attempt a 53 yd FG w/ 3 mins left in OT knowing that a win or a tie clinches. They knew Buf lost, they knew they were in.

3-4-5 does it really matter? the odds were against us. we needed to win, we needed Cincy to lose and Ten & oak to lose or tie OR we needed to win, Cincy to lose and ten and den to lose or tie. That's a lot to ask especially for ab team that just got their hearst ripped out a week earlier.

I understand that was the biggest thing the dolphins have done in years but the bottom line is we don't make it if we win that game.

The New Guy
08-09-2012, 05:43 PM
The Jets did what they needed to do over 16 games.

AGAIN, there is no way in the world they attempt a 53 yd FG w/ 3 mins left in OT knowing that a win or a tie clinches. They knew Buf lost, they knew they were in.

3-4-5 does it really matter? the odds were against us. we needed to win, we needed Cincy to lose and Ten & oak to lose or tie OR we needed to win, Cincy to lose and ten and den to lose or tie. That's a lot to ask especially for ab team that just got their hearst ripped out a week earlier.

I understand that was the biggest thing the dolphins have done in years but the bottom line is we don't make it if we win that game.

Again, you don't know that. I believe the Jets were playing to win the game. That was the Jets 2nd OT possession and there was over 5:00min (Not 3) left when they attempted the kick. Even if they don't attempt the kick, who says that they would have been able to hold SL for a 3rd time in OT had they punted instead? We can both speculate all day, but it doesn't matter. All that matters is we know they lost. With that loss, they had to rely on Buff to lose in order to make it. There is no getting around it.

It only matters when you know better. You know it wasn't 5 and you still exaggerate the numbers to try and help your argument. The only thing asked of the Jets was to win. That was the only thing that they could control. They needed some help and came within 1 point of getting it. None of it matters anyway becasue they were already eliminated by the Dolphins. There is no getting around that either.

We are pretty much repeating the same things over and over, so I am going to move on. If you want to continue, you can answer these two questions for me:

Who mathematically eliminated the Jets?

Did it matter if the 2004 Bills won or lost against Pitt in regards to the Jets clinching a playoff birth?

I don't expect an answer other than "Jets took care of business" and "They wouldn't have made it anyway", so I am moving on. :up:

DisturbedShifty
08-09-2012, 05:51 PM
It's fun watching Junc flounder. Hehehe.

Forgive my spelling. This was sent from my phone.

nyjunc
08-10-2012, 08:52 AM
It's fun watching Junc flounder. Hehehe.

Forgive my spelling. This was sent from my phone.

Yes I am floundering b/c you hate the Jets.


Again, you don't know that. I believe the Jets were playing to win the game. That was the Jets 2nd OT possession and there was over 5:00min (Not 3) left when they attempted the kick. Even if they don't attempt the kick, who says that they would have been able to hold SL for a 3rd time in OT had they punted instead? We can both speculate all day, but it doesn't matter. All that matters is we know they lost. With that loss, they had to rely on Buff to lose in order to make it. There is no getting around it.

It only matters when you know better. You know it wasn't 5 and you still exaggerate the numbers to try and help your argument. The only thing asked of the Jets was to win. That was the only thing that they could control. They needed some help and came within 1 point of getting it. None of it matters anyway becasue they were already eliminated by the Dolphins. There is no getting around that either.

We are pretty much repeating the same things over and over, so I am going to move on. If you want to continue, you can answer these two questions for me:

Who mathematically eliminated the Jets?

Did it matter if the 2004 Bills won or lost against Pitt in regards to the Jets clinching a playoff birth?

I don't expect an answer other than "Jets took care of business" and "They wouldn't have made it anyway", so I am moving on. :up:

I do know it b/c it was discussed at the time and common sense tells me that as well.

My mistake, the play by play logs at NFL.com show the time when a team takes over not when the drive ends so I thought they took over w/ 3 mins left. Either way that late in the game they aren't kicking that long of a FG knowing you need a win OR a tie to clinch. It makes more sense to punt w/ 5 mins than 3 b/c you know if you get a stop you will be near midfield w/ more time to play.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=250102014&period=5

If they punt at worst SL gets the ball at their 20, at best they are inside the 10.


Again, I realize this was the biggest Miami win in the last decade but we weren't going to the playoffs either way.

we wouldn't have attempted that FG if we didn't know Buf had lost.

all of this stuff is meaningless. We made it in 2004 and won a playoff game, we wouldn't have made it either way in '08 or '11.

The New Guy
08-10-2012, 12:01 PM
Yes I am floundering b/c you hate the Jets.



I do know it b/c it was discussed at the time and common sense tells me that as well.

My mistake, the play by play logs at NFL.com show the time when a team takes over not when the drive ends so I thought they took over w/ 3 mins left. Either way that late in the game they aren't kicking that long of a FG knowing you need a win OR a tie to clinch. It makes more sense to punt w/ 5 mins than 3 b/c you know if you get a stop you will be near midfield w/ more time to play.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=250102014&period=5

If they punt at worst SL gets the ball at their 20, at best they are inside the 10.


Again, I realize this was the biggest Miami win in the last decade but we weren't going to the playoffs either way.

we wouldn't have attempted that FG if we didn't know Buf had lost.

all of this stuff is meaningless. We made it in 2004 and won a playoff game, we wouldn't have made it either way in '08 or '11.


:lol:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2005-01-04/sports/18299339_1_wayne-chrebet-jets-donnie-henderson


OVER AND OVER: Would Edwards have tried that 53-yard FG attempt in overtime if the Jets needed a victory to secure a playoff berth? Interesting question.

Edwards knew the Jets had clinched a spot by virtue of the Bills' loss to the Steelers, so there was less risk involved for a long field goal. Edwards said he would have played it the same way even if they had been in a must-win situation. Doug Brien's miss gave the Rams a short field, setting up the game-winning FG.

The coach admitted he was a "little concerned" about using Martin in a meaningless overtime, but he added, "We were trying to win the game."





"You hate to lose getting in," Coach Herman Edwards said.


"It's bittersweet," said Martin, who was discussing the Jets' entry into the playoffs but just as easily could have been describing his accomplishments. He said the Jets had entered the locker room "bitter, but then we heard that we made the playoffs and felt better."

All of this stuff is meaningless, which is why it boggles my mind that you can't admit what actually happened. Since you couldn't answer my questions and we keep repeating the same things over and over, I'm moving on. :up:

nyjunc
08-10-2012, 12:17 PM
I don't buy it for a second, I couldn't find it but I remember vividly articles about how the team knew they were in before OT. Don'y buy anythin a coach tells you, when is a coach going to say they weren't trying to win? There's just no way they would kick that FG in that situation if Buf had been able to beat the Pitt backups.

nyjunc
08-10-2012, 12:20 PM
At that link:


Edwards knew the Jets had clinched a spot by virtue of the Bills' loss to the Steelers, so there was less risk involved for a long field goal.

The New Guy
08-10-2012, 01:38 PM
At that link:


That is what the writer was saying. I know that Herm and some of the players knew that Buff had lost, but that doesn't mean they weren't trying their hardest to win the game or did things differently becasue of that. In fact, they claim the exact opposite. Herm said himself that he would have played it the same way even if they had been in a must-win situation. He said: "We were trying to win the game." No coach wants to go into the playoffs losing, let alone losing 3 out of the last 4. No coach who doesn't care about losing leaves all of the starters in the game in OT.

nyjunc
08-10-2012, 02:17 PM
Do I think they were trying on the field? sure but when you know you have it clinched the sense of urgency is different and I don't buy what Herm said.

They went in winning in 2001 and lost in the WC rd, they went in losing in 2004 and won in the WC rd.

The New Guy
08-10-2012, 02:43 PM
Do I think they were trying on the field? sure but when you know you have it clinched the sense of urgency is different and I don't buy what Herm said.

They went in winning in 2001 and lost in the WC rd, they went in losing in 2004 and won in the WC rd.

It doesn't matter what you and I think. None of it has anything to do with my original statement that the Jets needed Buff to lose in order to clinch a playoff spot. Just like it doesn't matter if the Jets got help in 2011 or not becasue Miami already eliminated them. It is two simple facts that can not be debated.

I don't see your point on the last statement? Are you saying that the Jets wanted to go in losing?

nyjunc
08-10-2012, 02:45 PM
Buf needed us to lose to have a chance.

didn't want to but the season resets in postseaqson. Whether they won or lost the previous week means nothing.

truthbtold
08-11-2012, 07:18 PM
I have to chime in. this "help" argument is silly. every team needs help unless they go 16-0. you need other teams to lose games ... period. it's ridiculous to focus on week 17 because it's the last week. what happened the previous 16 weeks doesn't matter? everyone plays out the full schedule. the teams with the best records get in. this isn't college ... it makes no difference what order the wins and losses come in. would you feel better if the buffalo loss to Pitt happened in week 14?? would that still count as help or is it only help because the schedule makers happened to slot the game for week 17? guess what ... either way it still counts for one loss.

The New Guy
08-12-2012, 04:07 PM
I have to chime in. this "help" argument is silly. every team needs help unless they go 16-0. you need other teams to lose games ... period. it's ridiculous to focus on week 17 because it's the last week. what happened the previous 16 weeks doesn't matter? everyone plays out the full schedule. the teams with the best records get in. this isn't college ... it makes no difference what order the wins and losses come in. would you feel better if the buffalo loss to Pitt happened in week 14?? would that still count as help or is it only help because the schedule makers happened to slot the game for week 17? guess what ... either way it still counts for one loss.

Just when I think I'm out, I get sucked back in. :lol:

There is a difference to me if you are in playoff position early in the season and if you need help to remain in that spot late in the season. Only two teams have ever finished the regular season undefeated in the history of the NFL, so other teams losing some games is pretty much a given. A loss is a loss, but losses that come early in the season do not clinch a playoff spot for anyone. It may put another team in a better position to do so, but that team still has to keep that position by continuing to win. The only thing a team can control is how it plays against other teams. Division teams play similar schedules and play the other teams in the division twice. So, losses that come early in the season can be overcome during the course of the season since they will play each other at some point. As a team, you want put yourself in a position where you control your playoff destiny. You do not want to be in a position to where another team that you are not playing is the difference between making or missing the playoffs in the last few games (or game) of the season. To me, that says that you didn't do enough throughout the course of the season.

I don't need to focus on when the Buff loss happened. This is not about Buff, it is about what the Jets couldn't do. They couldn't take care of business on their own. It would make a huge difference to me if the Bills loss came in week 9 when the Jets played them as opposed to week 17 when the Jets had nothing to do with it. It would make a huge difference to me if the Jets won just 1 of the last 3 games they lost that would have clinch a spot for them instead of needing Buff to lose to do it. The Jets had a 3 game lead over Buff with 4 games to go and had destiny in their hands. They had the opportunity to clinch a spot on their own. Instead the Jets went on to lose 3 out of the next 4 which took their playoff destiny out of their hands and gave it to Buff. Yes, the Jets won enough to get in but there is a difference between the teams that keep their playoff spot by winning and the teams that keep their spot because another team they didn't play lost. Kudos to the Jets for winning enough earlier to still give them a chance, but that doesn't mean they didn't throw away their own destiny and put it in Buff's hands.

Do you honestly believe that there isn't a difference?


On a side note, I thought Coples looked good in his debut. :up:

nyjunc
08-13-2012, 08:44 AM
Coples did look good but it's preseason, I don't take anything positive or negative out of it. As long as we come out healthy and the only injuury we had was relatively minor.