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View Full Version : Obama: Let's repeat auto industry SUCCESS?



SnakeoilSeller
08-10-2012, 12:01 PM
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/08/obama-lets-repeat-auto-rescue-with-every-manufacturing-131566.html

I think someone has to teach our President what success is, because the smartest man in the room does not seem to have a clue. At last count (June data) the bailout cost the American Taxpayer 26.5 billion, is that successful? And it has only gotten worse. Further that 26.5 billion does not take into account the thousands of dealerships forced to close by the Obama Adminstration. Nor does that take into account the 20,000 pensions destroyed by the Adminstration of non union workers.

His grand plan? More government takeover, more screwing the taxpayers, more crony capitalism? How is that a success?

Valandui
08-10-2012, 12:30 PM
The only company that really turned it around is the one that told him to go **** himself.

Locke
08-10-2012, 05:39 PM
Weird. Who would have guessed SOS has a problem with Obama. Absolutely shocking...

phinfan3411
08-10-2012, 05:49 PM
Who is SOS?

Locke
08-10-2012, 06:30 PM
Who is SOS?

SnakeOilSeller. If he posts something, you can pretty much guarantee he says something about Obama. If a story came out about Obama saving an orphanage from a hurricane, he'd complain that Obama didn't do it before the hurricane was on it's way towards the coast...

CANDolphan
08-10-2012, 06:43 PM
Here's some knowledge for you -

Obama initially gave over 78 billion in bailouts to Chevy (and GMAC) and Chrysler. Those bailouts were to be repaid on the condition that there would be interest accrued and payments made starting within 36 months of the amount. There was a rather interesting little tidbit where Obama allowed them to borrow more money depending on an expansion process that created more jobs.

The Auto Companies (Chrysler and Chevy) agreed, and had paid back up to 35 billion at one point (in the form of stock and actual cash) and 5 billion have one again been given to help with the increased expansion, which has since led to more jobs (roughly 8,000, and growing)

That ****ing Democrat. Look at him jacking up the national debt! He cost us a total of $30 billion dollars so far in these bailouts! Let's get a Republican back in there. Wait, what's that?

George W Bush did the same thing? But did require a corporate restructure and payback plan? http://bottomline.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/02/07/10342178-bush-on-auto-bailouts-id-do-it-again?lite

Oh Bush gave almost 700 billion to the banking industry? Surely we've made money off that money. Wait, what's that? We are actually being charged interest to borrow money from the banks that we originally gave them to bail them out? What? They've failed to pay back 165 billion of it? And the government told them "that's okay"??

http://dailybail.com/home/the-165b-bank-bailout-that-will-never-be-paid-back.html

Yet I was told by Republicans that George W Bush had actually turned a profit with his bank bailouts! Up to 20 million dollars!
http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/30/news/economy/tarp_program/index.htm

I'll take 8000 new jobs and growing, plus a clear cut increase in the quality of merchandise from Chrysler and Gm as well as corporate restructuring and the US owning a **** load of shares in those companies vs $165 million dollars of forgiven loans with ZERO restructure, and ZERO chance of the money being given back.

And I'm an effin Republican! (well, was... I'm moderate now)

Regardless, it's my opinion there should be NO bailouts.

---------- Post added at 06:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

Look forward to your reply SOS, open dialogue like this is incredibly beneficial not only to you and I but also to those who read. Knowledge baby knowledge!

Valandui
08-10-2012, 07:18 PM
Here's some knowledge for you -

Obama initially gave over 78 billion in bailouts to Chevy (and GMAC) and Chrysler. Those bailouts were to be repaid on the condition that there would be interest accrued and payments made starting within 36 months of the amount. There was a rather interesting little tidbit where Obama allowed them to borrow more money depending on an expansion process that created more jobs.

The Auto Companies (Chrysler and Chevy) agreed, and had paid back up to 35 billion at one point (in the form of stock and actual cash) and 5 billion have one again been given to help with the increased expansion, which has since led to more jobs (roughly 8,000, and growing)

That ****ing Democrat. Look at him jacking up the national debt! He cost us a total of $30 billion dollars so far in these bailouts! Let's get a Republican back in there. Wait, what's that?

George W Bush did the same thing? But did require a corporate restructure and payback plan? http://bottomline.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/02/07/10342178-bush-on-auto-bailouts-id-do-it-again?lite

Oh Bush gave almost 700 billion to the banking industry? Surely we've made money off that money. Wait, what's that? We are actually being charged interest to borrow money from the banks that we originally gave them to bail them out? What? They've failed to pay back 165 billion of it? And the government told them "that's okay"??

http://dailybail.com/home/the-165b-bank-bailout-that-will-never-be-paid-back.html

Yet I was told by Republicans that George W Bush had actually turned a profit with his bank bailouts! Up to 20 million dollars!
http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/30/news/economy/tarp_program/index.htm

I'll take 8000 new jobs and growing, plus a clear cut increase in the quality of merchandise from Chrysler and Gm as well as corporate restructuring and the US owning a **** load of shares in those companies vs $165 million dollars of forgiven loans with ZERO restructure, and ZERO chance of the money being given back.

And I'm an effin Republican! (well, was... I'm moderate now)

Regardless, it's my opinion there should be NO bailouts.

---------- Post added at 06:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

Look forward to your reply SOS, open dialogue like this is incredibly beneficial not only to you and I but also to those who read. Knowledge baby knowledge!


Ford told them to go f off and is doing the best out of all of them. I guess we really shouldn't be surprised by Henry Ford's decendants not giving the government control of their company, though.

Tetragrammaton
08-10-2012, 07:47 PM
You can really get an idea of the Republican media influence by the use of the name Saul Alinsky.

JamesBW43
08-10-2012, 08:19 PM
You can really get an idea of the Republican media influence by the use of the name Saul Alinsky.

I was thinking the same thing. And actually, after reading up on the guy, I am confused as to how he is supposed to be any kind of pariah. Even from a conservative point of view.

CedarPhin
08-10-2012, 08:30 PM
I don't get the Alinsky boogeyman, either.

Tetragrammaton
08-10-2012, 08:32 PM
I was thinking the same thing. And actually, after reading up on the guy, I am confused as to how he is supposed to be any kind of pariah. Even from a conservative point of view.

I really doubt any of them have looked into this guy they have made into a talking point, they are just repeating what others have said.

Tetragrammaton
08-10-2012, 08:38 PM
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2012/0128/Who-is-Saul-Alinsky-and-why-is-Newt-Gingrich-so-obsessed-with-him/%28page%29/2


FreedomWorks (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/FreedomWorks), the tea party group headed by former Republican House leader Dick Armey (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Dick+Armey), gives copies of “Rules for Radicals” to its leaders. “His tactics when it comes to grass-roots organizing are incredibly effective,” FreedomWorks spokesman Adam Brandon told The Wall Street Journal (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/The+Wall+Street+Journal). Tea partyers aggressively confronting lawmakers at town hall meetings is straight from Alinsky’s playbook.

JamesBW43
08-10-2012, 09:05 PM
I really doubt any of them have looked into this guy they have made into a talking point, they are just repeating what others have said.

I mean from the mouthpieces themselves. I guess I should just youtube it to see what they say, I have a feeling it's going to be good.

JamesBW43
08-10-2012, 09:12 PM
Well, after one Hannity clip, all I got was "radical left" this, "Saul Alinski" that, "communists", and what I'm assuming is a misrepresentation of Alinski's work. Basically nothing but verbal diarrhea strung together in an attempt to make it look like it means something. And I thought Fox News had fired Glenn Beck. :ponder:


http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2012/0128/Who-is-Saul-Alinsky-and-why-is-Newt-Gingrich-so-obsessed-with-him/%28page%29/2

Lawl. Someone didn't get the memo.

Dogbone34
08-10-2012, 11:18 PM
obama believes in the california, chicago model of government.

it's almost embarrassing if it wasn't so transparent.

JamesBW43
08-11-2012, 12:08 AM
obama believes in the california, chicago model of government.

it's almost embarrassing if it wasn't so transparent.

What does that even mean?

Spesh
08-11-2012, 12:30 AM
obama believes in the california, chicago model of government.

it's almost embarrassing if it wasn't so transparent.

It always amuses me when people tell me what others believe. With Obama its been especially hilarious.

Wasnt America suppose to turn into a socialist nation ruled by Sharia law over 3 years ago? What happened to all that? America looks remarkably similar to the way it did when Bush walked out of the White House....which is probably the biggest insult to Obama there is.

SnakeoilSeller
08-11-2012, 09:01 AM
The bailout has cost the American Taxpayer over 26.5 billion dollars. And that figure was based on GM stock at a selling price of over $23 dollars a share. GM closed at $20.50 on Friday. Thousands of dealerships were forced to close by the Obama Administration, in which we later found out that winners and losers were picked in large part on race and or minority status. And over 20,000 pensions were terminated by the Administration, because they were non union. Further, I did not even get into how the bond holders were screwed over. And President Obama declares it a success? Obviously by the reaction of Obama supporters on FH, losing taxpayer money, crony capitalism, and decisions based on race and not merit, are successful.

The typical responses - I was attacked because I dont find a lot of success in any of the auto bailout or would at least like to know how it is considered a success and I was given an infraction, by the powers that be, for a personal attack? But no defense of Obama's actions (cricket cricket) I guess it is ok to attack the poster and not the post, if you share the same ideology as the moderators. It helps when they can run cover for you.

Obama continually shows his true feelings about capitalism and I can only assume that his most ardent supporters feel the same way. "The private sector is doing fine", "You did not build that", "Our plan worked", and now "The auto bailout was a success". It shows a troubling attitude towards capitalism. But instead of attempting to defend the Administrations actions, just attack the poster - it works better.

Tetragrammaton
08-11-2012, 09:21 AM
Obama continually shows his true feelings about capitalism and I can only assume that his most ardent supporters feel the same way.

Most Democratic activists are not as far-right capitalist as Obama is.

Spesh
08-11-2012, 10:44 AM
The typical responses - I was attacked because I dont find a lot of success in any of the auto bailout or would at least like to know how it is considered a success and I was given an infraction, by the powers that be, for a personal attack? But no defense of Obama's actions (cricket cricket) I guess it is ok to attack the poster and not the post, if you share the same ideology as the moderators. It helps when they can run cover for you.


Ugh, did you even check Crazy685's post? It didnt automatically talk about how Obama is a commie, so i can see how you might have skipped over it.

Dogbone34
08-11-2012, 11:33 AM
It always amuses me when people tell me what others believe. With Obama its been especially hilarious.

Wasnt America suppose to turn into a socialist nation ruled by Sharia law over 3 years ago? What happened to all that? America looks remarkably similar to the way it did when Bush walked out of the White House....which is probably the biggest insult to Obama there is.

Stay focused fat dude. Your attributing stuff to me that I didn't bring.

I was avoiding the tired labels of socialist, marxist etc.. Obama is huge government control and intervention, call it what you want.

Dogbone34
08-11-2012, 11:38 AM
What does that even mean?

Come on James, we expect a certain level of pre-requisite knowledge in the pofo.

I suggest reading the liberal rag called the LA Times, even there you will find endless examples of corrupted, broken government led by the state run democratic party. Obama supports it all. California is America's future.

JamesBW43
08-11-2012, 11:50 AM
The bailout has cost the American Taxpayer over 26.5 billion dollars. And that figure was based on GM stock at a selling price of over $23 dollars a share. GM closed at $20.50 on Friday. Thousands of dealerships were forced to close by the Obama Administration, in which we later found out that winners and losers were picked in large part on race and or minority status. And over 20,000 pensions were terminated by the Administration, because they were non union. Further, I did not even get into how the bond holders were screwed over. And President Obama declares it a success? Obviously by the reaction of Obama supporters on FH, losing taxpayer money, crony capitalism, and decisions based on race and not merit, are successful.

The typical responses - I was attacked because I dont find a lot of success in any of the auto bailout or would at least like to know how it is considered a success and I was given an infraction, by the powers that be, for a personal attack? But no defense of Obama's actions (cricket cricket) I guess it is ok to attack the poster and not the post, if you share the same ideology as the moderators. It helps when they can run cover for you.

Obama continually shows his true feelings about capitalism and I can only assume that his most ardent supporters feel the same way. "The private sector is doing fine", "You did not build that", "Our plan worked", and now "The auto bailout was a success". It shows a troubling attitude towards capitalism. But instead of attempting to defend the Administrations actions, just attack the poster - it works better.



For me, I don't argue one way or another on the auto bailout because I just don't know. I don't know all the details and I didn't follow it closely at the time.

However, from my ignorant perspective on it, is it not safe to assume that any time the government needs to save an industry that it's a lose lose situation? Is it not generally accepted that it is the lesser of two evils? The other being mass layoffs of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people (and in this case in the midst of a very strong recession no less)?

And as such, how can one even attempt to argue that a bailout should have made money?

JamesBW43
08-11-2012, 11:56 AM
Come on James, we expect a certain level of pre-requisite knowledge in the pofo.

I suggest reading the liberal rag called the LA Times, even there you will find endless examples of corrupted, broken government led by the state run democratic party. Obama supports it all. California is America's future.

I have a bachelor's and a master's degree in political science. I want to know what you think when you say he supports "the California and Chicago model of government" and what that entails.

Spesh
08-11-2012, 12:40 PM
Stay focused fat dude. Your attributing stuff to me that I didn't bring.

I was avoiding the tired labels of socialist, marxist etc.. Obama is huge government control and intervention, call it what you want.

Both sides are into big government. People need to move past this myth that the Republican party will somehow limit government spending and involvement. Its moot at this time anyways, because the economy is such a mess that neither candidate will be able to fix it before their term is up.

And for someone trying to avoid tired labels, you seem quick to go to other cliches. 4 years ago i was promised that if Obama was elected capitalism would die and Sharia law would rule our government. Now, im being promised that if Obama is reelected California would become the government model. I dont see a difference between the two sets of promises, as neither of them have a chance of occuring. Fear mongering only weakens over time.

Spesh
08-11-2012, 12:44 PM
For me, I don't argue one way or another on the auto bailout because I just don't know. I don't know all the details and I didn't follow it closely at the time.

However, from my ignorant perspective on it, is it not safe to assume that any time the government needs to save an industry that it's a lose lose situation? Is it not generally accepted that it is the lesser of two evils? The other being mass layoffs of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people (and in this case in the midst of a very strong recession no less)?

And as such, how can one even attempt to argue that a bailout should have made money?

Many wanted the private market to step in and invest. Thats what Romney was pushing for. Unfortunately...


Mitt Romney says that he opposed the government bailout of Detroit because the private market would have provided loans so GM and Chrysler could go through managed bankruptcy, but it turns out the firm Romney once led, Bain Capital, turned down the chance to do so. The government's auto task force asked Bain Capitol if it would like to invest in GM's European operations, The New York Times' Jeremy W. Peters (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/20/us/politics/after-auto-bailout-detroit-fallout-trails-romney.html?pagewanted=all) reports, but Bain said no thanks. Detroit executives and Obama administration officials say that Romney is wrong: government money was necessary because at the worst of the financial crisis, private companies would not have lent the $80 billion the automakers needed. Based on The Times report, we now know that the government's argument was true in the case of at least one company: the one Romney helped found and shape.


http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/02/bain-capital-turned-down-chance-invest-gm/48909/

Locke
08-11-2012, 12:53 PM
Ugh, did you even check Crazy685's post? It didnt automatically talk about how Obama is a commie, so i can see how you might have skipped over it.

You have no idea how true this statement is...

Dogbone34
08-11-2012, 05:27 PM
I have a bachelor's and a master's degree in political science. I want to know what you think when you say he supports "the California and Chicago model of government" and what that entails.

It entails large public sector unions like seiu, the prison guards, police/teacher/ fire to hold the public hostage with corrupted politicians selling out the people with enormous debts to be paid by taxpayers. It entails crony socialism like solyndra. It entails anti-business regulations and taxes. It entails a retired police officer suing the state for severance while collecting $22K/month for the rest of his life. Who's version of social justice is that. There's your 1%.

Just the tip of the iceberg. Do some research. Get some sources besides jon stewart and cnn.

Locke
08-11-2012, 06:11 PM
It entails large public sector unions like seiu, the prison guards, police/teacher/ fire to hold the public hostage with corrupted politicians selling out the people with enormous debts to be paid by taxpayers. It entails crony socialism like solyndra. It entails anti-business regulations and taxes. It entails a retired police officer suing the state for severance while collecting $22K/month for the rest of his life. Who's version of social justice is that. There's your 1%.

Just the tip of the iceberg. Do some research. Get some sources besides jon stewart and cnn.

Damn man, I must have rattled you with that post in the anything goes thread. Now you're following the Snake and ohall tactic of being condescending at every opportunity. You make a little more sense than they do, but not much...

SnakeoilSeller
08-11-2012, 06:58 PM
Ugh, did you even check Crazy685's post? It didnt automatically talk about how Obama is a commie, so i can see how you might have skipped over it.

I was referring to the posts immediately after my original.

Dogbone34
08-11-2012, 07:31 PM
Damn man, I must have rattled you with that post in the anything goes thread. Now you're following the Snake and ohall tactic of being condescending at every opportunity. You make a little more sense than they do, but not much...

I was a little a condescending. I didn't mean that to come off as a shot at James.

JamesBW43
08-11-2012, 11:01 PM
It entails large public sector unions like seiu, the prison guards, police/teacher/ fire to hold the public hostage with corrupted politicians selling out the people with enormous debts to be paid by taxpayers. It entails crony socialism like solyndra. It entails anti-business regulations and taxes. It entails a retired police officer suing the state for severance while collecting $22K/month for the rest of his life. Who's version of social justice is that. There's your 1%.

Just the tip of the iceberg. Do some research. Get some sources besides jon stewart and cnn.

The only things in your post that can be attributed to a model of government are patronage, regulations, and taxes. All of which are pretty universal, the outlier being patronage, but it's been a part of our system since the late 1820s. The rest is just ranting against random things.

And it sounds to me like your sources are less informative than even Jon Stewart. His show at least put the President's "you didn't build that" comment into context.

Tetragrammaton
08-12-2012, 09:34 AM
"Crony socialism like Solyndra." You really can't make this stuff up. Because socialism is all about taxing and giving that money to a corporation.

Dogbone34
08-12-2012, 11:02 AM
"Crony socialism like Solyndra." You really can't make this stuff up. Because socialism is all about taxing and giving that money to a corporation.

Crony socilalism is political slang for corrupt democrats. Like crony capitalism is slang for republicans. Sorry I didnt get your approval webster. I know how sensitive you are over your strange obsession with the definition of socialism.

Tetragrammaton
08-12-2012, 04:02 PM
Crony socilalism is political slang for corrupt democrats. Like crony capitalism is slang for republicans. Sorry I didnt get your approval webster. I know how sensitive you are over your strange obsession with the definition of socialism.

When you use words for the complete opposite of what they really mean, of course I will have a problem with it. If you talked about hot for cold and up for down, it would be the same.