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View Full Version : Why I Miss the Old School Republicans by George Takei



Dolphins9954
09-06-2012, 08:41 AM
Itís no surprise that Iím a Democrat. Iím a gay man, I got married to my husband Brad, and I donít particularly like being told my marriage should be invalidated because I donít have the same rights as other people. But mind you, I donít forget that it was a Democratic President (FDR) who abused his power 70 years ago and put my family and me in an internment camp without charge, trial or cause. Now that was Big Government at its very worst. So I am leery of excessive government power or control of any kind.
Thatís why I want to take a moment here to talk about the 800 pound gorilla in the room: To ask why the GOP has allowed itself to be hijacked by extremists who arenít Republican at all.

At their core, Republicans are for smaller government. That means LESS governmental intrusion into our lives, our affairs, our money. Consistently applied, this is a sound and important philosophy that acts as a counterweight to wasteful government spending, excessive taxation, and Big Brother intrusiveness. It is a ďlive and let liveĒ attitude. Good people may disagree respectfully whether more or less government is needed in areas such as healthcare and education, whether a larger military or more international intervention is needed, and whether we should cut taxes on the wealthy or raise them. I personally can completely understand the economic rationales behind the GOP platform, even if I donít think we should retry them right now.

What I simply canít understand is why the GOP ignores the gorilla in their tent when it comes to social issues. For a party that prides itself on less government intrusion, it sure seems busy these days telling women and LGBT persons what they can and cannot do. This is not only inconsistent, it is a poor strategy for keeping the party strong, growing, and current. If religious fundamentalists want to push their extremist agendas, they should do it in some other party, so that I donít have sit there in awkward conversations with my Republican friends, secretly wondering how they can continue to pander to such drivel.
It would be as if the Democrats suddenly had their ranked filled by hard-core Communists who steadily called upon the total abolishment of private business. (And no, thatís not what Obamacare does, notwithstanding the rhetoric. You may disagree with the individual mandate, but itís not a government take-over, itís a taxĖas the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court himself concluded.) If someone like Fidel Castro or Hugo Chavez showed up at a Democratic Party function and waved Maoís little red book around, I would say, ďSorry, I know Democrats. Iíve worked for years with Democrats. Youíre no Democrat. And you canít sit with us.Ē

Itís time for true Republicans to regain control of their party. For Republicans who believe in a womanís right to choose not to have to pretend that they donít. For those who believe that two people who love each other should be allowed to get married, who the hell cares, to say so. And for those who would like to see more Ron Pauls and fewer Mike Huckabees to stand up and say, ďActually, WEíRE the real Republicans. Now get off our lawn.Ē

Wouldnít that be a Grand Old time again?


http://www.allegiancemusical.com/blog-entry/gorilla-their-midst


http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/09/4439-1.jpg

Spesh
09-06-2012, 10:53 AM
And no, that’s not what Obamacare does, notwithstanding the rhetoric. You may disagree with the individual mandate, but it’s not a government take-over, it’s a tax–as the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court himself concluded.

Dammit, he beat me to it. :lol:

I have been a blast watching Republicans trip over themselves with the tea party in this election. But Takei is absolutely correct, the extreme right has highjacked the party and are dragging real conservatives down. As we are seeing with the Romney campaign, they are hurting themselves far more then helping themselves(and the country). Democrats have plenty of crazies, but they dont get elected into office and become the mainstream(except for OBAMA the worse human being to ever exist, sweet got one in).

nick1
09-06-2012, 11:38 AM
This is an example of the hate.Clinton.described of Obama. Nobody should spew hate towards anyone like this you are free to dislike him and think he's a bad president but the worst human ever wow such hate

rob19
09-06-2012, 01:21 PM
Bravo, Sulu.

Spesh
09-06-2012, 04:05 PM
This is an example of the hate.Clinton.described of Obama. Nobody should spew hate towards anyone like this you are free to dislike him and think he's a bad president but the worst human ever wow such hate

Ugh, i miss the days when this board actually understood sarcasm without people having to put in bold giant letters "Im about to be sarcastic!!!!!"

I blame Obama for ruining this forum.

Locke
09-07-2012, 02:54 PM
Takei is the best. Not to steal his thunder, but I said this exact same thing a few weeks ago in another thread. Of course, I'll never have the class that Takei has, so his message is a lot more effective...

http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?323946-And-people-wonder-why-people-assume-the-GoP-is-racist

Tetragrammaton
09-09-2012, 09:43 PM
It is really obnoxious how people try to knock the Republican Party by saying there is an older, "better" version. The party has been the same since before this b-list actor was born.

COphinphan89
09-09-2012, 10:41 PM
Helloooo...

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

Locke
09-09-2012, 11:07 PM
It is really obnoxious how people try to knock the Republican Party by saying there is an older, "better" version. The party has been the same since before this b-list actor was born.

Outside of the cold war, and the whole communist hunt (which was perpetrated by everyone, not just Republicans), I don't really recall anyone like Bachmann or Palin being a prominent figure in politics before the last few years. Of course, I could be wrong, and I'd be open to being corrected...

Tetragrammaton
09-10-2012, 12:07 AM
Outside of the cold war, and the whole communist hunt (which was perpetrated by everyone, not just Republicans), I don't really recall anyone like Bachmann or Palin being a prominent figure in politics before the last few years. Of course, I could be wrong, and I'd be open to being corrected...

Pat Buchanan was a major Republican candidate for President in 1992. Ronald Reagan endorsed segregationists. Barry Goldwater fought the Civil Rights Act. Richard Nixon thought abortions were okay in instances of mixed race breeding. These people are easily recalled.

Locke
09-10-2012, 12:25 AM
Pat Buchanan was a major Republican candidate for President in 1992. Ronald Reagan endorsed segregationists. Barry Goldwater fought the Civil Rights Act. Richard Nixon thought abortions were okay in instances of mixed race breeding. These people are easily recalled.

So one every few years is the same as the cornucopia of mental retardation that is being paraded around now...?

Tetragrammaton
09-10-2012, 12:46 AM
So one every few years is the same as the cornucopia of mental retardation that is being paraded around now...?

Michele Bachmann is a minor member of Congress and Sarah Palin isn't in office. Those I listed were Presidents or serious contenders. The meme that the Republican Party has changed is used by Democrats to try and sway people who aren't looking.

Locke
09-10-2012, 01:01 AM
Michele Bachmann is a minor member of Congress and Sarah Palin isn't in office. Those I listed were Presidents or serious contenders. The meme that the Republican Party has changed is used by Democrats to try and sway people who aren't looking.

But they are figureheads of the party. In one year we had Michelle Bachmann, Rick Santorum, and Herman Cain all as serious Republican contenders. These are 3 outlandish and extreme members of the Republican party, and they all lead in the polls at one point or another during the primaries. There have always been people like this, in every party, but it's hard to dispute that the number of them in prominent roles has been noticeably increasing...

Tetragrammaton
09-10-2012, 01:14 AM
It isn't hard to dispute at all. Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, John Boehner, Eric Cantor, and Mitch McConnell take quite different approaches to public policy than those you focus on. You call Rick Santorum, Michele Bachmann, and Herman Cain outlandish and extreme, but George Bush started two wars and ran up insane levels of debt and Barack Obama has increased the debt and continued war. This idea that extremism is new is nostalgia.

Spesh
09-10-2012, 01:16 AM
Michele Bachmann is a minor member of Congress and Sarah Palin isn't in office. Those I listed were Presidents or serious contenders. The meme that the Republican Party has changed is used by Democrats to try and sway people who aren't looking.

Palin was the vice-president candidate. Granted, thats not the presidency, but she was and is still viewed as a party leader.

This has been the least successful Congress in what...60 years? Part of the problem(the major problem in my opinion) is the lack of compromising and deal making. One party has glorified not compromising, even going so far as to vote consistent partisan politicians out of office and replace them with someone who views compromising as weakness. We have Presidential candidates(no matter how non-serious they might seem) who want to open invasive searches into opposing politicians lives on the premise of looking for "anti-american views". When those candidates are running for Presidency they are essentially desiring to bring McCarthyism into the most powerful office in the world.

Reagan politically pandered to the South. I consider that far different then the recent batch of presidential candidates who wanted to force a muslim church out of a community. Reagan never publically supported segregation. Now its a normal practice for "conservative" politicians.

Tetragrammaton
09-10-2012, 01:23 AM
Palin was the vice-president candidate. Granted, thats not the presidency, but she was and is still viewed as a party leader.

This has been the least successful Congress in what...60 years? Part of the problem(the major problem in my opinion) is the lack of compromising and deal making. One party has glorified not compromising, even going so far as to vote consistent partisan politicians out of office and replace them with someone who views compromising as weakness. We have Presidential candidates(no matter how non-serious they might seem) who want to open invasive searches into opposing politicians lives on the premise of looking for "anti-american views". When those candidates are running for Presidency they are essentially desiring to bring McCarthyism into the most powerful office in the world.

Reagan politically pandered to the South. I consider that far different then the recent batch of presidential candidates who wanted to force a muslim church out of a community. Reagan never publically supported segregation. Now its a normal practice for "conservative" politicians.

Palin is not viewed as a party leader by anyone inside of the party.

You mention McCarthyism; that is my point. This is nothing new.

Yelling about Muslim churches is just as much pandering as Reagan endorsing members of the John Birch Society and other segregationists.

Spesh
09-10-2012, 01:28 AM
Palin is not viewed as a party leader by anyone inside of the party.

You mention McCarthyism; that is my point. This is nothing new.

Yelling about Muslim churches is just as much pandering as Reagan endorsing members of the John Birch Society and other segregationists.

I meant in regards to official policy, not a lone politician losing his mind and yelling at the birds. But regardless, i couldnt prove Bachmann planned to do anything similar so discussion point withdrawn.

Dolphins9954
09-10-2012, 07:00 PM
I think it's more about what the core principles of conservatism should be about rather than the d-bags running around calling themselves "small government conservatives". Sure you had McCarthyism and in the 80's the Jesus freaks taking over the GOP. Just like you had FDR putting Americans in internment camps and democrats coming up with Jim Crow laws. Not to mention getting us into the Vietnam and the Korean War. It all goes both ways. But in the end IMO I believe that conservatism should be about less government in our lives, more liberty and sound fiscal and monetary policies.

Tetragrammaton
09-10-2012, 08:58 PM
I think it's more about what the core principles of conservatism should be about rather than the d-bags running around calling themselves "small government conservatives". Sure you had McCarthyism and in the 80's the Jesus freaks taking over the GOP. Just like you had FDR putting Americans in internment camps and democrats coming up with Jim Crow laws. Not to mention getting us into the Vietnam and the Korean War. It all goes both ways. But in the end IMO I believe that conservatism should be about less government in our lives, more liberty and sound fiscal and monetary policies.

Conservatism has always been about government intrusion in peoples' lives, from Russian conservatives to American conservatives. Why try to reclaim such a dirty word? Why not try liberal or libertarian?

cdz12250
09-10-2012, 09:11 PM
The problem is that the GOP has been forced to make allies of the religious right in order to get votes. Don't get me wrong. I admire religious people. The problem is that they abhor what they define as sin and believe that humanity works best in an environment where people are not allowed to sin. So they try to hijack the government apparatus for that purpose. This is exactly what people are talking about when they say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Dolphins9954
09-10-2012, 09:18 PM
Conservatism has always been about government intrusion in peoples' lives, from Russian conservatives to American conservatives. Why try to reclaim such a dirty word? Why not try liberal or libertarian?

In mine and many others interpretation of it not really. I agree the Bush/Romney version of conservatism is totally manipulated and political than anything. I consider myself more libertarian on most issues. Not the Glenn Beck libertarian who by the way is the type of d-bag I was talking about. I truly believe in less government, more liberty, the constitution, free markets and PEACE. That should be the principles of so called "small government conservatives".

Valandui
09-12-2012, 06:01 AM
Pat Buchanan was a major Republican candidate for President in 1992. Ronald Reagan endorsed segregationists. Barry Goldwater fought the Civil Rights Act. Richard Nixon thought abortions were okay in instances of mixed race breeding. These people are easily recalled.

To be fair, the Civil Rights Act had very little to do with civil rights and more to do with expansion of the Executive Branch's power.

SkapePhin
09-12-2012, 11:57 AM
Takei is on point. The Republican party he speaks of perished in the 1980s with Reagan's pandering to the likes of Jerry Fallwell and the other evangelicals who were using politics to gain followers and line their pockets. The Republican Party, as initially constructed, that preached small gov was one that sane individuals could get behind. The current Republican Party is a sad, comic shell of its original platform.

Dolphins9954
09-12-2012, 06:42 PM
Takei is on point. The Republican party he speaks of perished in the 1980s with Reagan's pandering to the likes of Jerry Fallwell and the other evangelicals who were using politics to gain followers and line their pockets. The Republican Party, as initially constructed, that preached small gov was one that sane individuals could get behind. The current Republican Party is a sad, comic shell of its original platform.

I would give you a thanks right now but my thanks count is 666.