PDA

View Full Version : Who are the Elite Players in this Draft (2013)



SF Dolphin Fan
09-07-2012, 11:52 AM
I know it's early, but at this time last year everyone knew Andrew Luck was an elite talent heading into the draft. Who are the elite guys this year? I know a few are likely to emerge and some may not declare, get injured or hurt their stock. But, I want to get a clearer picture of the top talent out there. I really believe Miami needs to find two elite guys in this draft and could be in a good position to do that with their own #1 and a trade up. Thoughts?

datruth55
09-07-2012, 12:20 PM
Don't think Miami will get two elite guys unless we trade back into the 1st round. Elite guys don't fall into the second round and they're normally taken in the top 10-15 picks.

SF Dolphin Fan
09-07-2012, 01:03 PM
Don't think Miami will get two elite guys unless we trade back into the 1st round. Elite guys don't fall into the second round and they're normally taken in the top 10-15 picks.Agree. But I also think we have the ammo to trade way up if a guy falls a little bit.

MadDog 88
09-07-2012, 03:04 PM
I think it's reasonable to assume Miami will draft in the first few picks. Robert Woods and Barkevious Mingo come to mind.

If they wind up top 5 I'd rather they get the first pick then depending on Tannehill's play, either draft Barkley or trade the rights to draft him.

ckparrothead
09-07-2012, 03:20 PM
I've got Matt Barkley, Logan Thomas, Bjoern Werner, Keenan Allen, Star Lotulelei, Manti Te'o, Shayne Skov and Sean Porter. Most would have Barkevious Mingo in there. I didn't see his first game yet. There's also a possibility of Justin Hunter getting in there, provided he stays healthy this year (big deal). When all is said and done there's a possibility Dee Milliner or Carrington Byndom is in there as well. I keep thinking David Amerson's going to be a safety. Most would have Chance Warmack as an elite. I think James Gayle and/or Dion Jordan could/should very well end up there.

MiamiDolphin618
09-07-2012, 03:54 PM
CK how do you like Allen in comparison to some of the other top WRs to come out in recent years? I personally like him more than I liked Blackmon at this point at least

ckparrothead
09-07-2012, 04:42 PM
I liked Justin Blackmon an awful lot. I didn't see Keenan Allen's game against Nevada, but as far as movement skills go he's a stud because there generally aren't guys as big as him that move like he does. He moves like a smaller guy. I just don't know yet if Allen has as much polish as Blackmon.

Justin Hunter filled out nicely. He's not as scary looking skinny anymore and dare I say he looks big. Still extremely leggy build though. And he moves around and plays the position sometimes like a newborn deer. He's got to grow into himself a lot more. I'm not considering him elite yet but I know there are others who might.

hooshoops
09-07-2012, 04:44 PM
all d milliner did when he got run in the last 2 years was get torched...anybody takes him with a first round pick is crazy...i look at his play against the michigan wideouts as a huge indictment of the michigan core...not as him being a true player...

hell no on that guy!!! put it in stone for me

MiamiDolphin618
09-07-2012, 05:01 PM
I liked Justin Blackmon an awful lot. I didn't see Keenan Allen's game against Nevada, but as far as movement skills go he's a stud because there generally aren't guys as big as him that move like he does. He moves like a smaller guy. I just don't know yet if Allen has as much polish as Blackmon.

Justin Hunter filled out nicely. He's not as scary looking skinny anymore and dare I say he looks big. Still extremely leggy build though. And he moves around and plays the position sometimes like a newborn deer. He's got to grow into himself a lot more. I'm not considering him elite yet but I know there are others who might.
Hunter just has to prove he can stay healthy for me. He has great ball skills though. As far as movement goes, that is what separates Allen for me. I think he has terrific balance and feet, and he is in and out of his breaks extremely smooth. I don't think he is as smooth as AJ Green was...but that is kind of what I thought of when I watch him. Blackmon was elite with the ball in the air...but I like Allen in just about every other aspect.

hooshoops
09-07-2012, 05:03 PM
i need to see robert woods this year but i hear he's 100 percent off that ankle now and if that's the case i expect to see what i saw from him as a freshman...which was top 10 pick worthy all day long...

sammy watkins is another guy that seems to be flying under the radar on here...once he comes back from suspension i expect big things...

ckparrothead
09-07-2012, 05:16 PM
Sammy Watkins is not draft eligible. He's not flying under radar, he's just not draft eligible.

I saw Robert Woods' game against Hawaii. He looked like Robert Woods. Marqise Lee is the big stud in that stable, but Woods is a pretty good player.

MiamiDolphin618
09-07-2012, 05:19 PM
I think Woods is a first round player. But I don't like him as much as Allen or Wilson. He is the kind of player I wouldn't mind targeting in a trade back into the 20s though. Another guy that has been discussed some is Steadman Bailey. I already liked him...but he might play his way into late 1st round consideration

hooshoops
09-07-2012, 05:20 PM
i can see philbin pounding the table for marquese lee when he comes eligible...no doubt...that guy looks like a packer wr...thick build probably a late 4.4's guy but physically imposing...he's a stud...him and watkins in 2014...hot damn

as for keenan allen i'm a big fan also but i don't think his tapes better than robert woods freshman stuff...but he also had a whole lot less to work with at cal qb wise...i don't think allen right now validates the top wr in the class though...seems a little rich

allen was a different level looking than jones when they were together and jones at least looks like he can play in this league...so

MiamiDolphin618
09-07-2012, 05:21 PM
i can see philbin pounding the table for marquese lee when he comes eligible...no doubt...that guy looks like a packer wr...thick build probably a late 4.4's guy but physically imposing...he's a stud...him and watkins in 2014...hot damn
Yeah those two are both studs. Lee might just be the best receiver in the country right now..

ckparrothead
09-07-2012, 05:32 PM
Marqise Lee IS the best receiver in the country as far as I'm concerned. Like a lot of young receivers, he'll drop a ball here and there, but that doesn't change the fact that he's the best right now.

ckparrothead
09-07-2012, 05:43 PM
Receiver draft reminds me a little bit of 2010. That was another year when you knew that the best receivers in the country still weren't even Draft eligible. You knew Dez Bryant was going to be good, but that was pretty much the end of your givens. He was a junior too so you didn't necessarily even know if he was going to come out. He was probably going to come out but you didn't know anything for fact on that. Demaryius Thomas was another junior that came out that you didn't know for a fact whether he would or not. The seniors at the position were generally not that good.

This senior class at WR might be a little better with Terrance Williams and Aaron Mellette but still not great. Who knows which juniors come out, they could all decide to stay in school. And the best two receivers in the country aren't even eligible.

MiamiDolphin618
09-07-2012, 05:47 PM
This senior class at WR might be a little better with Terrance Williams and Aaron Mellette but still not great. Who knows which juniors come out, they could all decide to stay in school. And the best two receivers in the country aren't even eligible.
Considering Lee and Watkins aren't draft eligible is exactly why I think some of these underclassman will enter this year. Guys like Wilson, Hunter, Bailey, etc all get pushed down the draft board if they wait a year because Lee and Watkins are both looking like top 10 picks.

ckparrothead
09-07-2012, 06:01 PM
Studman Bailey could come out \because his QB Geno Smith is a senior and will graduate. I could see that happening. There's some speculation that Keenan Allen will leave because his brother Zach Maynard the QB is a senior and has to go this year. You'd think Robert Woods would leave at the same time as Matt Barkley.

After that, it's a total crap shoot. No reason to think one way or another on Marquess Wilson. In fact with Connor Halliday waiting in the wings and that offense obviously taking a little bit of time before it gets off the ground, Wilson may decide he needs to stay another year to pump up his draft stock. Both Tennessee receivers could easily decide they need another year of polish before coming to the NFL. This 2012 season would essentially be the first season of consistent production from both Justin Hunter and Cordarelle Patterson. And if Tyler Bray stays in school forget it, I don't think either guy would even consider coming out. And Da'Rick Rogers...I don't know what's happening there. He's at Tennessee Tech right now.

ANUFan
09-07-2012, 08:12 PM
Glad to hear about some of these prospects. The majority of which I've never heard of......

Because of CK and others I've gotten a chance to see a few studs

Studman Bailey aka Baby Steve Smith(Car)
Marqise Lee

I don't like scronny looking receivers so you can keep the Tennessee kid. Reminds me too much of those USC turn bust receivers for the Lions..NO THANKS

SF Dolphin Fan
09-08-2012, 12:04 PM
I've got Matt Barkley, Logan Thomas, Bjoern Werner, Keenan Allen, Star Lotulelei, Manti Te'o, Shayne Skov and Sean Porter. Most would have Barkevious Mingo in there. I didn't see his first game yet. There's also a possibility of Justin Hunter getting in there, provided he stays healthy this year (big deal). When all is said and done there's a possibility Dee Milliner or Carrington Byndom is in there as well. I keep thinking David Amerson's going to be a safety. Most would have Chance Warmack as an elite. I think James Gayle and/or Dion Jordan could/should very well end up there.One of the reasons I asked the question was to see what people thought of Keenan Allen and whether he is, perhaps, worth a top 5-10 pick. As much as we need a pass rusher, I think wide receiver is the biggest area of need and I doubt Miami spends big money on the likes of Mike Wallace. Bjoern Werner is a player you alerted me to and definitely someone I like a lot. I'm also a big fan of both Stanford linebacker Shayne Skov and Chase Thomas, but early draftniks seem to have them as 2nd rounders.

SF Dolphin Fan
09-08-2012, 12:09 PM
Hunter just has to prove he can stay healthy for me. He has great ball skills though. As far as movement goes, that is what separates Allen for me. I think he has terrific balance and feet, and he is in and out of his breaks extremely smooth. I don't think he is as smooth as AJ Green was...but that is kind of what I thought of when I watch him. Blackmon was elite with the ball in the air...but I like Allen in just about every other aspect.AJ Green is an interesting comparison. I can definitely see that.

weisdolphins
09-08-2012, 12:51 PM
When is Andre Ellington eligible for the draft? He is a beast even without Sammy Watkins on the field to draw attention.

Dogbone34
09-08-2012, 04:58 PM
2013 Woods

2014 Lee

MiamiDolphin618
09-08-2012, 09:15 PM
I've got Matt Barkley, Logan Thomas, Bjoern Werner, Keenan Allen, Star Lotulelei, Manti Te'o, Shayne Skov and Sean Porter. Most would have Barkevious Mingo in there. I didn't see his first game yet. There's also a possibility of Justin Hunter getting in there, provided he stays healthy this year (big deal). When all is said and done there's a possibility Dee Milliner or Carrington Byndom is in there as well. I keep thinking David Amerson's going to be a safety. Most would have Chance Warmack as an elite. I think James Gayle and/or Dion Jordan could/should very well end up there.
What about Jarvis Jones? He has to be up there towards the elite I would think. He is making impact plays all over the field tonight

ChambersWI
09-08-2012, 09:22 PM
tell ya this much Sam Montgomery and Kiki Mingo are looking a lot like Freeney and Mathis on LSU's defense.

MiamiDolphin618
09-08-2012, 09:57 PM
tell ya this much Sam Montgomery and Kiki Mingo are looking a lot like Freeney and Mathis on LSU's defense.
Im a huge Mingo fan. He is ridiculously explosive. You pack some more muscle on him and you've got a special player.

SF Dolphin Fan
09-09-2012, 11:10 PM
Im a huge Mingo fan. He is ridiculously explosive. You pack some more muscle on him and you've got a special player.I really like Mingo as well. Do you think he'd fit as an outside linebacker for Miami or as an end? Also, how would you compare him to Bjorn Werner? I haven't seen a lot of Werner other than highlights, but he seems to be the better run defender and also very quick off the ball.

MiamiDolphin618
09-10-2012, 12:22 AM
I really like Mingo as well. Do you think he'd fit as an outside linebacker for Miami or as an end? Also, how would you compare him to Bjorn Werner? I haven't seen a lot of Werner other than highlights, but he seems to be the better run defender and also very quick off the ball.
I definitely think he's a 4-3 DE all the way. He could play 3-4 OLB I think...but he's better at end I think. As far as a comparison...its kind of apples to oranges even though they play the same position. Mingo has top shelf tools...in the JPP mold..or Von Miller. He is an explosive athlete...gets good bend for his size..and actually understands the leverage game a bit. Best pure pass rusher and highest ceiling of any defensive player in the draft IMO. I haven't seen quite as much as Werner...but he is a great prospect as well in his own right. He is a monster...very strong hands and knows how to use them. Reads the backfield well which makes him exceptional against the run as well. He's pretty athletic for his size...but will beat you with power as well. See what JJ Watt did to us today??...yeah thats the type of impact Werner could have.

I have Mingo rated higher because I think he's a better pure pass rusher...and he has a higher ceiling. Id take JPP over Watt any day...but Werner would be a great addition too. Im pretty sure he's got like 5 sacks already this year

j-off-her-doll
09-10-2012, 09:48 AM
I don't think Mingo works very well opposite Wake. That said, depending on the board, I could still be very happy taking Mingo as a pass rush specialist that - just like I would have been happy taking Aldon Smith in 2011. Well, I don't like him as much as I liked Smith, but same idea.

MiamiDolphin618
09-10-2012, 02:32 PM
I don't think Mingo works very well opposite Wake. That said, depending on the board, I could still be very happy taking Mingo as a pass rush specialist that - just like I would have been happy taking Aldon Smith in 2011. Well, I don't like him as much as I liked Smith, but same idea.
I think with his frame he can pack on 15 lbs easy. Plus, this is a passing league. We have Starks and big Paul up the middle...with a very solid linebacking core. Our run defense isn't the problem...I would rather be a top 12 run defense instead of top 3 with Mingo and actually have a legitimate pass rush. Plus like you said...you can keep Odrick as the starter and work Mingo as a specialist until he packs on some weight. I like him better than I liked Aldon Smith btw

RealDriscoll
09-10-2012, 03:10 PM
I have two tiers of prospects for the "elite" category. The first is the sure-fire elite prospects that consist of...

Barkevious Mingo-LSU, Jarvis Jones-Georgia, Keenan Allen-California, Matt Barkley-USC, Star Lotulelei-Utah, Robert Woods-USC, Barrett Jones & Chance Warmack-Alabama

The second group is those on the verge and very close to being elite and that lis consist of..

Justin Hunter-Tennessee, Sam Montgomery-LSU, Logan Thomas-VT, Tyler Wilson-Ark, Jonathan Hankins-Ohio State, David Amerson-NC State, Tyler Eifert-Notre Dame, TJ McDonald-USC

The two players I find intriguing are Bjoern Werner-Florida State and Jackson Jeffcoat-Texas. Werner is 28 years old I believe but his game reminds me of JJ Watt a bit. Jeffcoat is an amazing athlete but needs more production.

RealDriscoll
09-10-2012, 03:14 PM
For my $ Barkevious Mingo is the best player in the draft. A blend between Demarcus Ware and Aldon Smith. He is long, strong, quick first step, violent hands, and is strong against the run as well. He has a non-stop motor and pursues to the ball very well. He gives maximum effort on every plays and he just keeps coming. Mingo and Mr. Lotulelei are the only two players I'd be okay with us selecting that wasn't Keenan Allen, Robert Woods, or Justin Hunter...

---------- Post added at 03:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:13 PM ----------

He was eligible for the 2012 draft but decided to return to Clemson. I have him graded as a 3rd round prospect for 2013..

RealDriscoll
09-10-2012, 03:16 PM
I agree with CK. Marqise Lee-USC is the best WR in the country right now and one of the 3 ELITE prospects for the 2014 draft with Sammy Watkins-Clemson & Jadaveon Clowney-South Carolina being the other two.

dolfan91
09-10-2012, 03:23 PM
Soliai and Lotulelei in the middle would be very dominant. Both would command Double Teams, opening up the defense to attack the edges. I've seen Both of Lotulelei's games so far in 2012 and can see this kid is a legit force in the mold of Ngata and Suh. For a man that is in the 325-335lb range, he is built very lean and not sloppy. I'd be ecstatic with Miami picking him in the top 3-5 picks. CBSports.com com has Miami selecting Star at #2 in their 2013 mock draft.

MiamiDolphin618
09-10-2012, 05:28 PM
Soliai and Lotulelei in the middle would be very dominant. Both would command Double Teams, opening up the defense to attack the edges. I've seen Both of Lotulelei's games so far in 2012 and can see this kid is a legit force in the mold of Ngata and Suh. For a man that is in the 325-335lb range, he is built very lean and not sloppy. I'd be ecstatic with Miami picking him in the top 3-5 picks. CBSports.com com has Miami selecting Star at #2 in their 2013 mock draft.
Great player. I like Mingo/Werner as better fits for what we need though. However if we let Starks walk...he could be a definite option

rob19
09-10-2012, 08:35 PM
I've got Matt Barkley, Logan Thomas, Bjoern Werner, Keenan Allen, Star Lotulelei, Manti Te'o, Shayne Skov and Sean Porter. Most would have Barkevious Mingo in there. I didn't see his first game yet. There's also a possibility of Justin Hunter getting in there, provided he stays healthy this year (big deal). When all is said and done there's a possibility Dee Milliner or Carrington Byndom is in there as well. I keep thinking David Amerson's going to be a safety. Most would have Chance Warmack as an elite. I think James Gayle and/or Dion Jordan could/should very well end up there.

You like Logan Thomas that much? I'll readily admit I don't watch very much college football, but I did see the game vs. Georgia Tech last week. Based off that game in a vacuum I would never have guessed him to be an elite prospect. Is it his size that intrigues you?

Fin_Frenzy_84
09-11-2012, 02:34 AM
Give me Justin Hunter and Corey Lemonier!

ckparrothead
09-11-2012, 03:14 AM
You like Logan Thomas that much? I'll readily admit I don't watch very much college football, but I did see the game vs. Georgia Tech last week. Based off that game in a vacuum I would never have guessed him to be an elite prospect. Is it his size that intrigues you?

That would be the primary problem with that analysis. Eschewing his full body or work for just one game against a tough conference opponent, especially the first game in a year where he just lost his two starting receivers, is not exactly a good practice. There's more to him than just physical ability. He's a gamer, which he showed at the end of that Georgia Tech game, and normally he's pretty accurate.

Hayden Fox
09-11-2012, 08:39 AM
Thomas did not have a ton help vs. GT, but what I liked is he kept grinding and grinding and found a way to win. Love the upside.

RealDriscoll
09-11-2012, 08:43 AM
And not to forget he lead his team to a game tying field and overtime win throwing absolute lasers...

SMadison29
09-11-2012, 11:00 AM
Werner is 28 years old I believe but his game reminds me of JJ Watt a bit.

Werner was born in 1990 so he is 22.

SMadison29
09-11-2012, 11:19 AM
At this point in the season there's only four elite players that are draft eligible: Matt Barkley, Jarvis Jones, Barkevious Mingo, & Star Lotulelei.

The next tier of players are early first rounders but I wouldn't consider elite just yet: Justin Hunter, Keenan Allen, Robert Woods, Chance Warmack, Sam Montgomery, Bjoern Werner, Johnathan Hankins, & Manti Te'o.

Lastly are the potential players who need to get through the season & progress to show they're elite like some think they are: Logan Thomas & Dee Milliner.

Fallen off the border elite train: David Amerson.

ckparrothead
09-11-2012, 03:50 PM
werner was born in 1990 so he is 22.

lol

jbyrd850
09-12-2012, 12:25 AM
As a huge fsu fan and someone who follows the team very closely...Werner is a straight beast. That kid just knows how to play football. Plays the run just as good as he plays the pass and hes going to show this year that hes a better pass rusher than he was last year. Logan Thomas is no where near an elite prospect, I dont see how anyone could think hes elite and im not basing this off the first game. He might have elite measurables but theres alot more to playing qb than measurables and hes just not there yet. Maybe at the end of the season he will get there but hes not a master of the qb position yet like a Andrew Luck, or Matt Barkley. To be elite you need a combo of measurables and intangibles and while the kid is a gamer hes not developed enough yet as a QB.

RealDriscoll
09-13-2012, 10:41 PM
SMadison29- you used to post on the ESPN Miami Dolphins Board?

---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 PM ----------

Still a hater Chris. Unreal you haven't been able to move on.