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uk_dolfan
10-11-2012, 10:16 AM
"fast for a white receiver" Sound familiar? Imagine what would happen if someone said RG3 "has a good arm for a black quarterback" :err:

Im not saying its blatant racism but Ive seen Hartline be asked about his speed all season, ive seen his team mates asked what its like playing with a "white reciever" and it actually rather sickens me. As Devon Bess said "Hartline's speed is "definitely" overlooked since he's white."

No im not trying to label certain journalists racist against white players, but this attitude towards Hartline and other players (such as the running back Hillis) quite annoys me. If football is meant to be colourless why does that not apply to white players as well as black?

Maybe im on my own in this one and just seem bitter :idk: Was wondering what you guys think?

PolitePolite
10-11-2012, 10:18 AM
My favorite thing is when people compare him to Jordy Nelson.

Finland
10-11-2012, 10:19 AM
I have not seen anything like this, but it would not be OK to say that.

MadDog 88
10-11-2012, 10:21 AM
I agree. If you are to have a society that is truly equal, there should be no race labels.

uk_dolfan
10-11-2012, 10:22 AM
My favorite thing is when people compare him to Jordy Nelson.

Yup apparently he can be the Dolphins Wes Welker. :rolleyes2:

Geforce
10-11-2012, 10:23 AM
This is not just about Hartline. The same question was asked of Jordy Nelson and the Packers wide receivers last season.

travisg772
10-11-2012, 10:25 AM
They are quoting Devon Bess... Its not really raciest. Its like when you have a black friend and hes always like "man you white people are crazy" He was just saying "For a white guy hes fast" Well lets face it, not many white people are fast... Ask Usain Bolt.

dolfan3431
10-11-2012, 10:26 AM
In today's society, its ok to be racist against white people, but god forbid you make a black joke and all hell breaks loose! Its just how society is, which is why we have such things as "blackpeoplemeet.com" and "BET", but yet if we make a "whitepeoplemeet.com" and "WET", well be shunned from society. ****ed up world man

uk_dolfan
10-11-2012, 10:26 AM
They are quoting Devon Bess... Its not really raciest. Its like when you have a black friend and hes always like "man you white people are crazy" He was just saying "For a white guy hes fast" Well lets face it, not many white people are fast... Ask Usain Bolt.

Im not suggesting Devon Bess is the racist im saying he is pointing out the problem.

finfanaz
10-11-2012, 10:27 AM
I agree. If you are to have a society that is truly equal, there should be no race labels.

Sure, that sounds nice. But unfortunately some stereotypes are true. Generally black people seem faster than white people, this seems almost fact to me. I'm not sure if there is any evidence behind it, but it sure looks that way. A look at the most recent Olympics (and years past) should answer most questions..

But that aside, Hartline shouldn't be getting these questions. Not every WR in the NFL is great due to their speed. Rout running, how you're able to work the endzone/sideline, are all important things. And if you excell at them, which Hartline does, you don't need top flight speed.

NYPhinzFan
10-11-2012, 10:27 AM
Dude, it's not racism, it's just the way things are. If you lined up 100 black atheletes and 100 white atheletes to race each other, who do you think would win the majority of the time? Look at the olympic sprinters in the 100 and 200 meter final, they're all black atheletes. It's not being racist to say that people underestimate how fast Brian Hartline is because he's white, it's simply playing the odds, and the odds are most white athletes can't run the way Brian Hartline does.

The only thing that kind of bothers me about the whole Brian Hartline thing is when they compare him to a receiver, it's always a white receiver; Jordy Nelson. Why can't he be compared to another productive receiver in the NFL, regardless of color? But, even that I understand because Jordy Nelson is also a white receiver who people underestimate his athleticism because of his race. Black and white athletes are different, that's just it, but to say pointing it out is racist, I don't agree.

Dolfan5000
10-11-2012, 10:27 AM
They are quoting Devon Bess... Its not really raciest. Its like when you have a black friend and hes always like "man you white people are crazy" He was just saying "For a white guy hes fast" Well lets face it, not many white people are fast... Ask Usain Bolt.
lol fail ^ :bobdole:

To be honest it's just the way things are not that I'm ok with it. Hartline wasn't on Ohio State's track and field team because people were deceived by his white person speed... just he's an athlete lol.

finfanaz
10-11-2012, 10:30 AM
In today's society, its ok to be racist against white people, but god forbid you make a black joke and all hell breaks loose! Its just how society is, which is why we have such things as "blackpeoplemeet.com" and "BET", but yet if we make a "whitepeoplemeet.com" and "WET", well be shunned from society. ****ed up world man

Black people and minorities have been oppressed by white people for hundreds of years (i'm white). And they still are today, look at how Mexicans, Native Americans, and even Black people are still treated today. White people DON'T need to have sites and TV channels like that. Although we still pretty much do, not sure what else you would call Fox News.. minorities don't watch that **** that's for sure.. White execs and politicians are still having their way..

NYPhinzFan
10-11-2012, 10:31 AM
In today's society, its ok to be racist against white people, but god forbid you make a black joke and all hell breaks loose! Its just how society is, which is why we have such things as "blackpeoplemeet.com" and "BET", but yet if we make a "whitepeoplemeet.com" and "WET", well be shunned from society. ****ed up world man

Poor example. Black people make up 12% of the population, to have forum where a minority group of people meet, is not crazy. Just like there's Jewish, Asian and Indian versions of black people meet. Having "Whitepeoplemeet" makes no sense when caucasians make up 72% of the population>

uk_dolfan
10-11-2012, 10:31 AM
Dude, it's not racism, it's just the way things are. If you lined up 100 black atheletes and 100 white atheletes to race each other, who do you think would win the majority of the time? Look at the olympic sprinters in the 100 and 200 meter final, they're all black atheletes. It's not being racist to say that people underestimate how fast Brian Hartline is because he's white, it's simply playing the odds, and the odds are most white athletes can't run the way Brian Hartline does.

The only thing that kind of bothers me about the whole Brian Hartline thing is when they compare him to a receiver, it's always a white receiver; Jordy Nelson. Why can't he be compared to another productive receiver in the NFL, regardless of color? But, even that I understand because Jordy Nelson is also a white receiver who people underestimate his athleticism because of his race. Black and white athletes are different, that's just it, but to say pointing it out is racist, I don't agree.

Its not just a matter of race at all. It has a lot to do with upbringing etc as well. I know plenty of black people just as slow as I am (and im pretty damn slow by any standards.) As I said in the first post, if I went on espn and said that RG3 was an accurate passer of the football for a black man I would have a media witch hunt against me. But you say something about a white receiver.. its all fun and games.

finfanaz
10-11-2012, 10:33 AM
Its not just a matter of race at all. It has a lot to do with upbringing etc as well. I know plenty of black people just as slow as I am (and im pretty damn slow by any standards.) As I said in the first post, if I went on espn and said that RG3 was an accurate passer of the football for a black man I would have a media witch hunt against me. But you say something about a white receiver.. its all fun and games.

Actually, people say that about him all the time. Maybe not so blunt, but I always see references about him not being the typical "black QB" with the ability to be a "pocket QB".

uk_dolfan
10-11-2012, 10:33 AM
Black people and minorities have been oppressed by white people for hundreds of years (i'm white). And they still are today, look at how Mexicans, Native Americans, and even Black people are still treated today. White people don't deserve to have sites and TV channels like that. White execs and politicians are still having their way..

If this wasnt a sports forum I would actually tear this to pieces.

MadDog 88
10-11-2012, 10:35 AM
Black people and minorities have been oppressed by white people for hundreds of years (i'm white). And they still are today, look at how Mexicans Native Americans, and even Black people are still treated today. White people don't deserve to have sites and TV channels like that. White execs and politicians are still having their way..
You got it right until the white guilt came out about whites don't deserve. Not true. The way to make up for the oppression is not by segregating but unifying. Can that be accomplished? Probably not as the lines of racial hatred are deep on all sides. But tabbing a month as Black History Month or Spanish Heritage month doesn't help solve the problem.

NY8123
10-11-2012, 10:39 AM
Meh...........the whole "white" and "black" label thing is overrated. They are descriptors associated with genetics nothing more, nothing less. Are there dumb**** people who turn them into racist connotations, of course but I don't associate with those people.

NYPhinzFan
10-11-2012, 10:40 AM
Its not just a matter of race at all. It has a lot to do with upbringing etc as well. I know plenty of black people just as slow as I am (and im pretty damn slow by any standards.) As I said in the first post, if I went on espn and said that RG3 was an accurate passer of the football for a black man I would have a media witch hunt against me. But you say something about a white receiver.. its all fun and games.

I think you're extrapolating what you want from these statements to support an argument. Black people make up 12% of the US population but more than 75% of the NFL last I checked. The prototype of an NFL player is predicated on speed and athelticsm, especially at the skill positions. I'll go out on a limb to say that more than 90% of all the stars at the skill positions are African American atheletes. To take notice of anomolies like a Brian Hartline or a Jordy Nelson that can break into this club and excel based on their athleticism being on par with some of their peers, isn't racist, I just don't see where you're getting this.

Black QB's for the most part weren't given an opportunity to play QB because most thought they weren't "smart enough" for the position. As more black QBs are given the opportunity and excel in the role, that stereotype has dissapated. It's not like noone gives white athletes an opportunity to play receiver, black athletes simply excel more in the position. So you're RG3 argument is apples to oranges, sorry.

finfanaz
10-11-2012, 10:41 AM
If this wasnt a sports forum I would actually tear this to pieces.

Haha try your best dude.. everything I just said was true. Not sure how you could even argue it, you don't even live in this country (according to your name). How the **** do you know how minorities are treated or portrayed in the media and other areas of the Cooperate America society we all live in?

---------- Post added at 07:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 AM ----------


You got it right until the white guilt came out about whites don't deserve. Not true. The way to make up for the oppression is not by segregating but unifying. Can that be accomplished? Probably not as the lines of racial hatred are deep on all sides. But tabbing a month as Black History Month or Spanish Heritage month doesn't help solve the problem.

I completely agree with you, I just worded what I meant wrong. I don't think we need anything like that for any race. I am all for unification, no borders and a Human Race over just Race itself.

uk_dolfan
10-11-2012, 10:43 AM
Why has a post about a relevant topic been taken out of the main forum because some posters went away from the topic. Its very relevant about the Dolphins.

FinaticalOne
10-11-2012, 10:43 AM
"fast for a white receiver" Sound familiar? Imagine what would happen if someone said RG3 "has a good arm for a black quarterback" :err:Im not saying its blatant racism but Ive seen Hartline be asked about his speed all season, ive seen his team mates asked what its like playing with a "white reciever" and it actually rather sickens me. As Devon Bess said "Hartline's speed is "definitely" overlooked since he's white."

No im not trying to label certain journalists racist against white players, but this attitude towards Hartline and other players (such as the running back Hillis) quite annoys me. If football is meant to be colourless why does that not apply to white players as well as black?

Maybe im on my own in this one and just seem bitter :idk: Was wondering what you guys think?

You're a little off base there, most black QBs who make it to the NFL have very strong arms. The lable on black QBs is "scrambling" QBs, that's the stigma for a black QB. The perception is black QBs can only play that position if they are good scramblers (being able to make things happen with their feet).

But I do see your point about the label with white WRs, there are not a lot of them in the NFL, but they are labled as "deceptively" fast too often.

AFCMiamiEast
10-11-2012, 10:44 AM
In today's society, its ok to be racist against white people, but god forbid you make a black joke and all hell breaks loose! Its just how society is, which is why we have such things as "blackpeoplemeet.com" and "BET", but yet if we make a "whitepeoplemeet.com" and "WET", well be shunned from society. ****ed up world man

That quote is spot on. I don't like mixing politcs with football, but it's true.

NYPhinzFan
10-11-2012, 10:48 AM
Why has a post about a relevant topic been taken out of the main forum because some posters went away from the topic. Its very relevant about the Dolphins.

Because mods know that once you throw in topics like race, religion and politics, it will ALWAYS go to a not-so-friendly place

Flip Tanneflop
10-11-2012, 10:52 AM
And if we try to have a decent discussion about black QBs in the main forum.............. "its a shame its 2012 and were still talking about this" and other **** like that would get posted. But, its all good for people to talk about white WRs and such. Makes sense. :bobdole:

Notice how this thread gets moved to the depths too.

NY8123
10-11-2012, 10:52 AM
Why has a post about a relevant topic been taken out of the main forum because some posters went away from the topic. Its very relevant about the Dolphins.

Debate about societal racism dose not belong in the main forum and it took less than ten posts to turn this thread into a societal debate that wasn't centered around football. You guys can debate here all you would like, it isn't like the Depths is a bad place, it means less restrictions.

None of you did anything wrong, religion and race always spin out of control in the main because they are highly personal topics.


And if we try to have a decent discussion about black QBs in the main forum.............. "its a shame its 2012 and were still talking about this" and other **** like that would get posted. But, its all good for people to talk about white WRs and such. Makes sense. :bobdole:

Notice how this thread gets moved to the depths too.

What's wrong with debating about QB's and receivers without the generalizations of color attached?

dolfan3431
10-11-2012, 10:53 AM
You got it right until the white guilt came out about whites don't deserve. Not true. The way to make up for the oppression is not by segregating but unifying. Can that be accomplished? Probably not as the lines of racial hatred are deep on all sides. But tabbing a month as Black History Month or Spanish Heritage month doesn't help solve the problem.
Bingo! My point is there should be zero forms of segregation, period.

LANGER72
10-11-2012, 10:54 AM
I think the differences are caused by environmental, social, and economic disparity. More blacks play football in their youth in the poor areas of the country because they do not have other activities to do. Most of the powerhouse high school programs come from these types of areas. Those players become the stars. Now and then, a guy like Hartline comes along

uk_dolfan
10-11-2012, 10:55 AM
Debate about societal racism dose not belong in the main forum and it took less than ten posts to turn this thread into a societal debate that wasn't centered around football. You guys can debate here all you would like, it isn't like the Depths is a bad place, it means less restrictions.

None of you did anything wrong, religion and race always spin out of control in the main because they are highly personal topics.

It is also a football topic, I didn't want a detailed review of minority treatment in america. I wanted a discussion about the media and a Dolphins player. Putting it somewhere where only political types ever venture renders the topic pointless and ends even my interest in it.

NY8123
10-11-2012, 11:02 AM
It is also a football topic, I didn't want a detailed review of minority treatment in america. I wanted a discussion about the media and a Dolphins player. Putting it somewhere where only political types ever venture renders the topic pointless and ends even my interest in it.

As I said what you wanted to achieve and what was being achieved are two completely different things. Never in the history of Finheaven has a thread with race or religion in the main forum ended without infractions and/or banning.

I have reported the action to the admis, if they feel it was a wrong move one of them will reverse the decision but I wouldn't hold your breath bro.

It just never ends well with these type of things and down here you are free to discuss whatever you want.

uk_dolfan
10-11-2012, 11:05 AM
meh it was worth a try, I work with an MP I get enough detailed political discussion outside of a sports forum to last me a lifetime :crazy:

NY8123
10-11-2012, 11:18 AM
meh it was worth a try, I work with an MP I get enough detailed political discussion outside of a sports forum to last me a lifetime :crazy:

I never understand why the Depths isn't more active. It was created as a place to let people vent about touchy subjects and have almost zero restriction on speech. People tend to view it as a punishment in this forum and that is completely false. It isn't a punishment to get a thread moved here it is liberating to be honest.

In the Depths you can tell anyone you want to **** off and we aren't going to do anything about it.

tay0365
10-11-2012, 11:19 AM
My favorite thing is when people compare him to Jordy Nelson.

Your right, he's actually having a better year then Nelson.

uk_dolfan
10-11-2012, 11:22 AM
I never understand why the Depths isn't more active. It was created as a place to let people vent about touchy subjects and have almost zero restriction on speech. People tend to view it as a punishment in this forum and that is completely false. It isn't a punishment to get a thread moved here it is liberating to be honest.

In the Depths you can tell anyone you want to **** off and we aren't going to do anything about it.

Why not make it a section in its own right? I mean its under "games and graphics" I never even knew it existed until you moved this and I had a look around.

NY8123
10-11-2012, 11:33 AM
Why not make it a section in its own right? I mean its under "games and graphics" I never even knew it existed until you moved this and I had a look around.

Well I wanted to change the name to Finhell. In heaven you behave and in hell you don't. Then maybe there could be sub section under Finhell. I'll bring it up to see if we can get a more organized Depths.

tay0365
10-11-2012, 11:38 AM
I would love it when people just stopped seeing each other as black and white, it's idiotic. That guy can't succeed at qb, because he's black (Tell that to Warren Moon, and Steve McNair).....that guy can't succeed at WR because he's white (Tell that to Steve Largent and Fred Biletnikoff)

dahlmarino
10-11-2012, 11:41 AM
It's no worse than when Cam Newton was being compared to Vince Young when it's obvious that their throwing mechanics are miles apart and even the way they run differs. Cam reminded me more of Roethlisberger coming out of college, but the only comparison you were going to hear was to another black qb from any of the talking heads. In both these cases it's ridiculous.

NY8123
10-11-2012, 11:44 AM
I would love it when people just stopped seeing each other as black and white, it's idiotic. That guy can't succeed at qb, because he's black (Tell that to Warren Moon, and Steve McNair).....that guy can't succeed at WR because he's white (Tell that to Steve Largent and Fred Biletnikoff)

Well there is a huge difference between saying someone is horrible because of color and describing someone using color. For example, "oh that white guy will never make it in the NBA because white guys cannot play in the NBA" is completely different than "Well the guy that robbed the bank was white and about 6' tall and was wearing".

One is a generalization based on color and one is a descriptor based on color. It is the generalizations that lead to racism not the descriptors.

tay0365
10-11-2012, 12:19 PM
Well there is a huge difference between saying someone is horrible because of color and describing someone using color. For example, "oh that white guy will never make it in the NBA because white guys cannot play in the NBA" is completely different than "Well the guy that robbed the bank was white and about 6' tall and was wearing".

One is a generalization based on color and one is a descriptor based on color. It is the generalizations that lead to racism not the descriptors.

Your right, but my point is not about discription, it's about generalizations. Giving a discription using race, height, and even nationality of someone nobody should have problem with.

Quadfather
10-11-2012, 12:33 PM
I see they buried this post...when its true racism agaisnt white people exists

NYPhinzFan
10-11-2012, 01:01 PM
I think the differences are caused by environmental, social, and economic disparity. More blacks play football in their youth in the poor areas of the country because they do not have other activities to do. Most of the powerhouse high school programs come from these types of areas. Those players become the stars. Now and then, a guy like Hartline comes along

Not true whatsoever. Hartline is from Ohio I believe, and football is huge in that region of the country, as it in the Texas-Arkansas, California, South east, etc. All races of people play football as the major sport in some of these regions, not just the "poor black kids". These kids just happen to excel more.

NY8123
10-11-2012, 02:06 PM
I see they buried this post...when its true racism agaisnt white people exists

It isn't buried dude. It has nothing to do with white or black. It is in the Depths where you can discuss it at will with NO restrictions.

The only thing we ask down here is "NO RACIAL SLURS". But you can certainly call someone a black African America piece of **** ****ing penis hole if you desire or a White scumbag redneck peckerwood with KKK inscribed on his forehead.

Makes no difference to us down here.

Discuss at will why a white man cannot run with a black man, discuss at will why a black QB can or cannot succeed at QB in the NFL. In the Depths it is perfectly fine but as said before religion, politics and ethnic issues have no place in the main forum.

ChambersWI
10-11-2012, 02:46 PM
to answer the question, yes there is a bit of racism against Hartline just like there was against Jordy Nelson. Guys like Wes Welker don't really get much of it because he's what people think of when they think of white WR; short guy who gets open in the slot. The taller white WRs are expected to be possession guys and are shocked when they actually appear to be athletic.

fish920
10-11-2012, 03:16 PM
"fast for a white receiver" Sound familiar? Imagine what would happen if someone said RG3 "has a good arm for a black quarterback" :err:

Im not saying its blatant racism but Ive seen Hartline be asked about his speed all season, ive seen his team mates asked what its like playing with a "white reciever" and it actually rather sickens me. As Devon Bess said "Hartline's speed is "definitely" overlooked since he's white."

No im not trying to label certain journalists racist against white players, but this attitude towards Hartline and other players (such as the running back Hillis) quite annoys me. If football is meant to be colourless why does that not apply to white players as well as black?

Maybe im on my own in this one and just seem bitter :idk: Was wondering what you guys think?



Exactly what i think.

TheWarriorFins
10-11-2012, 06:41 PM
Exactly what i think.
It doesn't maker any sense black QBs generally do have strong arms if not stronger than white QBs(accuracy is a different story). I think it would make more sense if he labeled it as a QB who can't run/scramble well. Also if Hartline can prove the NFL he's legit and put up elite number 1 WR numbers by the end of the year, he could have my babies no ****. Also I could care less about racism against myself (mixed Hispanic Tico&Puerto Rican) You could call me a spick fot all I care.