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View Full Version : The Recovery Is Better Than Romney Would Like It to Be



BAMAPHIN 22
10-18-2012, 12:32 PM
The challenger will always try to talk down the economy. Even back in 1996, when jobs, growth, and even middle-class incomes were really taking off, candidate Bob Dole was trying to convince everyone that things were bad and getting worse. It is, of course, a much closer call now, but still, I doubt that Gov. Romney's assault on the recovery in Tuesday night's debate resonated as much as he'd like it to. And I think Greg Sargent is right here: team Obama should continue to push back on this point, particularly re: housing, which didn't come up at all Tuesday night.
All three major home price indices are up and the 30-year mortgage rate is at an all-time low. This combination of home price appreciation and low rates has allowed more homeowners to
refinance, lowering average annual mortgage payments by around $2,200. Housing starts got a big pop Wednesday AM, hitting their strongest stride since 2008, and while the monthly data are volatile, there are signs that the inventory overhang in housing is much diminished. Last month, auto sales hit a four year high, with annualized sales just below 15 million, the highest sales count since March 2008. Since GM and Chrysler have emerged from their government-structured bankruptcy, the industry's added almost 250,000 jobs. Unemployment, 10 percent three years ago, is 7.8 percent -- still too high, but moving in the right direction. Mitt's got a point re: the depressed labor force participation rate, but he's all stuff and malarkey if he really thinks that explains all, or even half, of the progress on unemployment. Employment growth accelerated notably in the third quarter of the year relative to the second. Still, despite the momentum, the jobless rate is too high to boost workers' bargaining power and you can see that in paychecks. Obviously we're far from out of the woods, including with housing. The GDP is growing barely at trend, unemployment is still too high, and millions of foreclosures remain in the pipeline, though foreclosure filings are at the lowest level since July 2007, according to RealtyTrac. So it's a mixed bag, but nothing like the dark picture that Gov. Romney and his supporters have been trying to paint. We're slowly sailing out of a storm. Too slowly, in my humble opinion, due to the refusal of policy makers other than Bernanke and Co., to put some policy-induced wind in the economy's sails. But I suspect there's NCD -- nontrivial cognitive dissonance -- between Romney's portrait of the economy and many people's experience of it, especially around some of the more tangible aspects like housing values and mortgage rates. When Sen. Dole tried to convince people otherwise back in 1996, it was a huge loser for him. The timing isn't nearly as supportive for the president, as he's faced down a much deeper and more intractable recession, with the opposite of cooperation from Congress. But the truth is that things are slowly getting better and Romney's claims to the contrary may be drowned out by this reality.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jared-bernstein/obama-economy-recovery_b_1975221.html

Eshlemon
10-18-2012, 01:40 PM
LOL, only a former Obama economic advisor can try to sell this "assault on the recovery" is any way remotely similar to the economy rhetoric of the Clinton-Dole election.

Statler Waldorf
10-18-2012, 02:18 PM
If this is a good economy, I would sure hate to see the Obama administration's idea of a bad economy.

Tetragrammaton
10-18-2012, 02:31 PM
Romney is praying to the Mormon God for job losses in November. It isn't going to happen, though.

Locke
10-18-2012, 02:42 PM
If this is a good economy, I would sure hate to see the Obama administration's idea of a bad economy.

Too bad your "environmental science degree" didn't include classes in reading comprehension. A recovering economy, which is what these articles are calling it, does not equal a good economy. You're reading what you want to read to fit your agenda...

Statler Waldorf
10-18-2012, 03:47 PM
Too bad your "environmental science degree" didn't include classes in reading comprehension. A recovering economy, which is what these articles are calling it, does not equal a good economy. You're reading what you want to read to fit your agenda...

Well Obama did say that the private sector is doing fine, so apparently he thinks this is a good economy since the private sector makes up the majority of the economy. So you are admitting that the economy was bad when Obama took over, it's been bad for four years, and it is still bad today? To think that you think that's a record that deserves another four years is downright laughable. I know it may seem radical to you, but I think Presidents should actually earn re-election, Obama has done nothing to earn another shot and it’s time for a change.

Statler Waldorf
10-18-2012, 03:50 PM
Romney is praying to the Mormon God for job losses in November. It isn't going to happen, though.

It won't matter either way, Romney will win either way, the American people are fed up with these sorts of economic numbers.

Tetragrammaton
10-18-2012, 08:21 PM
It won't matter either way, Romney will win either way, the American people are fed up with these sorts of economic numbers.

Not based on all the evidence pointing to a likely Obama victory.

phins_4_ever
10-18-2012, 09:47 PM
Well Obama did say that the private sector is doing fine, so apparently he thinks this is a good economy since the private sector makes up the majority of the economy. So you are admitting that the economy was bad when Obama took over, it's been bad for four years, and it is still bad today? To think that you think that's a record that deserves another four years is downright laughable. I know it may seem radical to you, but I think Presidents should actually earn re-election, Obama has done nothing to earn another shot and it’s time for a change.


Here is a great article and some charts on your attempt to dismiss Obama.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-private-sector-and-the-public-sector-under-obama-2012-6?op=1
I guess it depends on how you view the economic. Unemployment? Could be better. Corporate profits? All time high. Wondering of course why they don't hire US workers. Oh yeah, corporate profits are sitting on outsourcing jobs.

Here is a GDP chart which is in my opinion the best indicator how an economy grows:
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/10/6772671453_0aae21d6d2-1.jpg


And let's not forget the stock market. Republicans love the stockmarket.
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/10/zs5eDJIt5yqllonzlavpslangenUSregionUS-1.jpg
One of the things which surprised me is that the public sector employmenmt is way down. You all should love Obama for that.

The economy was bad when Obama took office. Not only bad. It was horrendous. Then the economy began slowly to recover and was a simple bad. Then it turned and became better and is now slightly below good. I don't know what you consider good. Economic recover is always slower than the destruction. You can destroy a house in seconds but it takes months to rebuild. If you go out there people are still gas guzzling with their SUVs. Stores and malls are packed.

cuzinvinny
10-19-2012, 04:34 PM
Romney is praying to the Mormon God for job losses in November. It isn't going to happen, though.

And Obama's begging for votes...... very Presidential.....

trojanma
10-19-2012, 04:48 PM
Many part time jobs are added in retail during the holiday season. The jobs numbers will probably look good.

Statler Waldorf
10-19-2012, 05:04 PM
Not based on all the evidence pointing to a likely Obama victory.

Evidence pointing to a likely Obama victory? Romney is now up 7 points in the latest Gallup poll and no challenger has ever lost after breaking 50 percent in that poll. Romney would win easily if the election were held tomorrow.

cuzinvinny
10-19-2012, 05:07 PM
Evidence pointing to a likely Obama victory? Romney is now up 7 points in the latest Gallup poll and no challenger has ever lost after breaking 50 percent in that poll. Romney would win easily if the election were held tomorrow.

It's the Obama strategy , " leading from behind "......

Statler Waldorf
10-19-2012, 05:11 PM
Here is a great article and some charts on your attempt to dismiss Obama.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-private-sector-and-the-public-sector-under-obama-2012-6?op=1
I guess it depends on how you view the economic. Unemployment? Could be better. Corporate profits? All time high. Wondering of course why they don't hire US workers. Oh yeah, corporate profits are sitting on outsourcing jobs.

Here is a GDP chart which is in my opinion the best indicator how an economy grows:
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/10/6772671453_0aae21d6d2-1.jpg


And let's not forget the stock market. Republicans love the stockmarket.
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/10/zs5eDJIt5yqllonzlavpslangenUSregionUS-1.jpg
One of the things which surprised me is that the public sector employmenmt is way down. You all should love Obama for that.

The economy was bad when Obama took office. Not only bad. It was horrendous. Then the economy began slowly to recover and was a simple bad. Then it turned and became better and is now slightly below good. I don't know what you consider good. Economic recover is always slower than the destruction. You can destroy a house in seconds but it takes months to rebuild. If you go out there people are still gas guzzling with their SUVs. Stores and malls are packed.

This is why you guys wonít win the election, youíre far to accepting of a bad economy, look at yourself trying to say this economy is good, when we had even better economic numbers across the board with eight years of Bush. Why wonít your little graphs show Bushís entire presidency compared to Obamaís? I will tell you why, because for the vast majority of his presidency Bush had far better economic numbers than Obama has had. So you can skew the figures all you want but itís really just putting lip stick on a pig. 7.8 percent unemployment and 2 percent economic growth are good economic numbers to you? Thatís absurd.

trojanma
10-19-2012, 05:13 PM
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/gallup-vs-the-world/#more-36284

Most polls have it as a a statistical dead heat and if you look at the individual states it has Obama winning because of better numbers in the swing states.
I think the Gallup is an outlier.

trojanma
10-19-2012, 05:17 PM
This is why you guys won’t win the election, you’re far to accepting of a bad economy, look at yourself trying to say this economy is good, when we had even better economic numbers across the board with eight years of Bush. Why won’t your little graphs show Bush’s entire presidency compared to Obama’s? I will tell you why, because for the vast majority of his presidency Bush had far better economic numbers than Obama has had. So you can skew the figures all you want but it’s really just putting lip stick on a pig. 7.8 percent unemployment and 2 percent economic growth are good economic numbers to you? That’s absurd.

I am an independent not a dem, but do you actually believe what you are saying here?

Bush's economy looked great because we were living in an economic bubble!

Statler Waldorf
10-19-2012, 06:00 PM
Most polls have it as a a statistical dead heat and if you look at the individual states it has Obama winning because of better numbers in the swing states.
I think the Gallup is an outlier.

That's because the state polls lag behind the national polls and are currently over sampling Democrats because they are using the 2008 turnout numbers which were a huge outlier. It’s all swinging towards Romney, I don’t think this race will even be very close by election day.


I am an independent not a dem, but do you actually believe what you are saying here?

Bill O’Reilly says he is an independent too, you’re a liberal.


Bush's economy looked great because we were living in an economic bubble!

I’d take 4.8 percent unemployment and the market being up above 14,000 in a bubble any day. Your graphs were purposely misleading and you know it.

trojanma
10-19-2012, 06:36 PM
Well I voted for McCain. The liberal candidate I guess.

I stand by my statement. Bush's ruinous plan of deregulation, spending increases and tax cuts is what caused this problem. This was in many ways a continuation of Clinton policies.
When you increase spending either by stimulus or cuts will always lead to short term gains.
The problem is that you eventually have to pay the piper.

Romney may win no doubt. But the election is a toss up. You may actually see a reversal of bush gore with Obama losing the popular vote but winning the etc.

I am not a blind supporter of Obama. I am not sure who I will vote for. I just disagree with false statements. I dont disagree the chart is disingenuous.

Bottom line if I am a liberal now then I no longer want to be associated with the Republicans.

irish fin fan
10-19-2012, 08:08 PM
This is why you guys wonít win the election, youíre far to accepting of a bad economy, look at yourself trying to say this economy is good, when we had even better economic numbers across the board with eight years of Bush. Why wonít your little graphs show Bushís entire presidency compared to Obamaís? I will tell you why, because for the vast majority of his presidency Bush had far better economic numbers than Obama has had. So you can skew the figures all you want but itís really just putting lip stick on a pig. 7.8 percent unemployment and 2 percent economic growth are good economic numbers to you? Thatís absurd.

The sheer stupidity displayed in this post is mind boggling. Go back to counting Dinosaurs.

phins_4_ever
10-19-2012, 10:45 PM
The sheer stupidity displayed in this post is mind boggling. Go back to counting Dinosaurs.

:thumbup:

CRAZYDOLFAN305
10-20-2012, 05:15 AM
This is why you guys wonít win the election, youíre far to accepting of a bad economy, look at yourself trying to say this economy is good, when we had even better economic numbers across the board with eight years of Bush. Why wonít your little graphs show Bushís entire presidency compared to Obamaís? I will tell you why, because for the vast majority of his presidency Bush had far better economic numbers than Obama has had. So you can skew the figures all you want but itís really just putting lip stick on a pig. 7.8 percent unemployment and 2 percent economic growth are good economic numbers to you? Thatís absurd.

Won win the election ? Let's se the African American vote goes to Obama, Asian Vote Goes To Obama, Latino Vote to Obama, Women Vote to Obama. So, what you have left is white middle class americans who are not going to vote for him because of what Fox News and Rus Limbaurgh has convinced them of. And you guys think he's not going to win the election ? LMAO. This is election is not as close as the media is telling you Romney supporters it is. Obama is going to win by a landslide.

Why do middle class causians continue to vote against their best interest. Having a beer with Bush wasn't enough?

bigguy1381
10-20-2012, 08:37 AM
Won win the election ? Let's se the African American vote goes to Obama, Asian Vote Goes To Obama, Latino Vote to Obama, Women Vote to Obama. So, what you have left is white middle class americans who are not going to vote for him because of what Fox News and Rus Limbaurgh has convinced them of. And you guys think he's not going to win the election ? LMAO. This is election is not as close as the media is telling you Romney supporters it is. Obama is going to win by a landslide.

Why do middle class causians continue to vote against their best interest. Having a beer with Bush wasn't enough?

Middle class Americans have had a tough four years. No raises, not job security. A lot of jobs can be lost or created depending on the policies that go through in the next year. Our employers are having a hard time keeping us now. What're they going to do if they raises taxes on them? More pay cuts? I know there's no raises in my future if that happens. Obama wants to stay on course but his course is scaring the hell out of people. I can't afford the cost of living to continue to rise with the same pay I had 4 years ago.
60% of the people in the city I work in are unemployed. The majority of them are unemployed by choice. Employers in this city are forced to hire from surrounding areas because of this. I work directly with these people everyday and they're not ashamed to say that they have no desire to ever work again. They'll tell you as long a they get a government check and food stamps they'd rather sit at home with there friends and family than go to work. More and more people have this mindset. This country will never recover as long as thing like this are allowed

phins_4_ever
10-20-2012, 10:00 AM
Middle class Americans have had a tough four years. No raises, not job security. A lot of jobs can be lost or created depending on the policies that go through in the next year. Our employers are having a hard time keeping us now. What're they going to do if they raises taxes on them? More pay cuts? I know there's no raises in my future if that happens. Obama wants to stay on course but his course is scaring the hell out of people. I can't afford the cost of living to continue to rise with the same pay I had 4 years ago.
60% of the people in the city I work in are unemployed. The majority of them are unemployed by choice. Employers in this city are forced to hire from surrounding areas because of this. I work directly with these people everyday and they're not ashamed to say that they have no desire to ever work again. They'll tell you as long a they get a government check and food stamps they'd rather sit at home with there friends and family than go to work. More and more people have this mindset. This country will never recover as long as thing like this are allowed

In what kinky town do you live? A link to your city would be good. I doubt that your city has 60% unemployment.

trojanma
10-20-2012, 10:32 AM
Middle class Americans have had a tough four years. No raises, not job security. A lot of jobs can be lost or created depending on the policies that go through in the next year. Our employers are having a hard time keeping us now. What're they going to do if they raises taxes on them? More pay cuts? I know there's no raises in my future if that happens. Obama wants to stay on course but his course is scaring the hell out of people. I can't afford the cost of living to continue to rise with the same pay I had 4 years ago.
60% of the people in the city I work in are unemployed. The majority of them are unemployed by choice. Employers in this city are forced to hire from surrounding areas because of this. I work directly with these people everyday and they're not ashamed to say that they have no desire to ever work again. They'll tell you as long a they get a government check and food stamps they'd rather sit at home with there friends and family than go to work. More and more people have this mindset. This country will never recover as long as thing like this are allowed

This the classic flawed argument of people that are anti Obama.

-no sources
-pure opinion
-anecdotal evidence without any facts to back it up
-decision made with pure emotion.

It's all about these legions of lazy people that don't want to work as the source of our unemployement. Thats such a republican myth.

But tihnk about what the hypothetical/real scenario of your hometown with 60% unemployement will happen when food aid is cut.
We are not talking about money but the most basic of human needs... food.

Crime?
Riots?
Begging?
Revolution?

In the tea party's eyes apparently these people that don't have pennies to their name will all of a sudden **** out jobs?

I would hate to be the soup kitchen operator in your town.
I would also probably advise you to move.

CRAZYDOLFAN305
10-24-2012, 04:15 PM
Here is a great article and some charts on your attempt to dismiss Obama.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-private-sector-and-the-public-sector-under-obama-2012-6?op=1
I guess it depends on how you view the economic. Unemployment? Could be better. Corporate profits? All time high. Wondering of course why they don't hire US workers. Oh yeah, corporate profits are sitting on outsourcing jobs.

Here is a GDP chart which is in my opinion the best indicator how an economy grows:
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/10/6772671453_0aae21d6d2-1.jpg


And let's not forget the stock market. Republicans love the stockmarket.
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/10/zs5eDJIt5yqllonzlavpslangenUSionUS-1.jpg
One of the things which surprised me is that the public sector employmenmt is way down. You all should love Obama for that.

The economy was bad when Obama took office. Not only bad. It was horrendous. Then the economy began slowly to recover and was a simple bad. Then it turned and became better and is now slightly below good. I don't know what you consider good. Economic recover is always slower than the destruction. You can destroy a house in seconds but it takes months to rebuild. If you go out there people are still gas guzzling with their SUVs. Stores and malls are packed.

This is not what the conservative media is brainwashing them with. They the conservatives have been conditioned with false information for so long, now they are left with trying to defend their falsehood by any means.

Only a idiot would have a reputable for this. An yet they label him a marxist. How can a Marxist have corporations with record profits, those two just don't go together. But, somewhere in their brain they are going to reach in rationals this of some sort, like they are cooking up the numbers.