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WVDolphan
10-22-2012, 11:06 AM
The Jests got hosed in NE. How obvious do the league and the officials have to make it that they want NE to win games.

1) I noticed this LIVE right away. I was on a board consisting of a good deal of Jests fans and for some reason they didnt even acknowledge it. Even after I posted about it several minutes later it was as if they didnt care. I dont get it.....

On that fumbled KO, the clock magically stops at 2:01...... well before the clock should have stopped. In fact I didnt hear a whistle until that thing shouldve been at least at 1:58. The clock operator stopped that thing before you could even tell the Jests gained control of the fumble, but definately before the whistle.

It didnt save much time as NE had 3 TOs, but it certainly saved NE a TO thats for sure. Turns out that was HUGE. Well it was HUGE even before we knew how it would come into play because NE obviously wouldve had to burn them all on the other side of that warning and the Jests make a FG to go ahead by 3.

Now, the game obviously wouldve played out differently so you cant just go with what happened and say the Pats wouldve ran out of time on their drive. Hell, the Pats may have scored a TD to win the game in regulation. But, the point is they wouldve had to burn all of those TOs as opposed to saving an extra one thanks to their clock operator keeping it on the plus side of the 2 minute warning for them.

I will also say this is poor coaching on the part of Rex, as he shouldve pointed out this error to the officials. Having said that, we all know that if he did throw a fit over it, the officials wouldve likely screwed them anyway.

2) That late flag on the PI call was complete bull****. The official standing right beside the play didnt even throw it either. That thing came in from way out. And you know that if that had been Brady with that game ending fumble they wouldve invented a rule to say it was not a fumble. The Jests got hosed. Straight up.

Having said all of that.... **** THE JESTS!

NY8123
10-22-2012, 11:48 AM
**** the Jets.........there I was honest.

GoonBoss
10-22-2012, 08:47 PM
But the replacement refs suck.

BleedinGreenNC
10-23-2012, 10:52 AM
The Jests got hosed in NE. How obvious do the league and the officials have to make it that they want NE to win games.

1) I noticed this LIVE right away. I was on a board consisting of a good deal of Jests fans and for some reason they didnt even acknowledge it. Even after I posted about it several minutes later it was as if they didnt care. I dont get it.....

On that fumbled KO, the clock magically stops at 2:01...... well before the clock should have stopped. In fact I didnt hear a whistle until that thing shouldve been at least at 1:58. The clock operator stopped that thing before you could even tell the Jests gained control of the fumble, but definately before the whistle.

It didnt save much time as NE had 3 TOs, but it certainly saved NE a TO thats for sure. Turns out that was HUGE. Well it was HUGE even before we knew how it would come into play because NE obviously wouldve had to burn them all on the other side of that warning and the Jests make a FG to go ahead by 3.

Now, the game obviously wouldve played out differently so you cant just go with what happened and say the Pats wouldve ran out of time on their drive. Hell, the Pats may have scored a TD to win the game in regulation. But, the point is they wouldve had to burn all of those TOs as opposed to saving an extra one thanks to their clock operator keeping it on the plus side of the 2 minute warning for them.

I will also say this is poor coaching on the part of Rex, as he shouldve pointed out this error to the officials. Having said that, we all know that if he did throw a fit over it, the officials wouldve likely screwed them anyway.

2) That late flag on the PI call was complete bull****. The official standing right beside the play didnt even throw it either. That thing came in from way out. And you know that if that had been Brady with that game ending fumble they wouldve invented a rule to say it was not a fumble. The Jests got hosed. Straight up.

Having said all of that.... **** THE JESTS!

I appreciate that post and i agree, but with that said, i am the type of person that doesnt want to leave it in the hands of the officials. Play the game and put it away so that there is no controversy

nyjunc
10-23-2012, 11:22 AM
But the replacement refs suck.

I miss the replacement refs.

we got screwed but we still should have won. Very frustrating game.

J. David Wannyheimer
10-23-2012, 12:03 PM
New England always gets home cooking at their games. I noticed both of those things also.

Unfortunately, the NFL will never use league employees for scoreboard operation because that would be 16 more folks they have to keep on staff, and they'd never pay for that.

But the amount of time remaining on the game clock should definitely be reviewable.

MR NFLFAN
10-23-2012, 09:07 PM
Yeah I had a hard time sleeping that night after the game...honestly! :up:

nyjunc
10-24-2012, 08:55 AM
Yeah I had a hard time sleeping that night after the game...honestly! :up:

sometimes you get breaks and sometimes you don't, the good teams take advantage

BleedinGreenNC
10-24-2012, 10:15 AM
sometimes you get breaks and sometimes you don't, the good teams take advantage


Exactly, that game could have gone either way.

The New Guy
10-24-2012, 03:23 PM
The Jests got hosed in NE. How obvious do the league and the officials have to make it that they want NE to win games.

1) I noticed this LIVE right away. I was on a board consisting of a good deal of Jests fans and for some reason they didnt even acknowledge it. Even after I posted about it several minutes later it was as if they didnt care. I dont get it.....

On that fumbled KO, the clock magically stops at 2:01...... well before the clock should have stopped. In fact I didnt hear a whistle until that thing shouldve been at least at 1:58. The clock operator stopped that thing before you could even tell the Jests gained control of the fumble, but definately before the whistle.

It didnt save much time as NE had 3 TOs, but it certainly saved NE a TO thats for sure. Turns out that was HUGE. Well it was HUGE even before we knew how it would come into play because NE obviously wouldve had to burn them all on the other side of that warning and the Jests make a FG to go ahead by 3.

Now, the game obviously wouldve played out differently so you cant just go with what happened and say the Pats wouldve ran out of time on their drive. Hell, the Pats may have scored a TD to win the game in regulation. But, the point is they wouldve had to burn all of those TOs as opposed to saving an extra one thanks to their clock operator keeping it on the plus side of the 2 minute warning for them.

I will also say this is poor coaching on the part of Rex, as he shouldve pointed out this error to the officials. Having said that, we all know that if he did throw a fit over it, the officials wouldve likely screwed them anyway.

2) That late flag on the PI call was complete bull****. The official standing right beside the play didnt even throw it either. That thing came in from way out. And you know that if that had been Brady with that game ending fumble they wouldve invented a rule to say it was not a fumble. The Jests got hosed. Straight up.

Having said all of that.... **** THE JESTS!

I hate NE as much as anyone, but I don't agree. On the KO, the clock did start when it should have. The clock is at 2:06 when he receives the ball, and goes down to 2:05 right before he crosses the 5 yard line. You can not expect the clock to go from 2:06 to 2:05 as soon as he touched the ball. That second has to go by and he has to be in the field of play. If you watch the kickoff return for a touchdown earlier in the game, you will see that the clock is at 8:51 and does not go to 8:50 until he is at the 5 yard line. This is completely normal. You can look up any kickoff return.

The clock is supposed to stop when a player recovers the ball and is down by contact. The Jets player #39 clearly recovers the ball at 2:02, and is touched down at 2:01. That is when the clock should stop. You can't really tell exactly when the official is waving his arms or blowing the whistle, but you can clearly see that the Jets recovered the ball and is being touched by a NE player at 2:01. The clock often does run longer on a play like that, but that does not mean it is supposed to.

It was strange that the PI came from the back judge instead of the one who was closer to the players, but it was still PI.

I don't think the Jets got screwed by the officials. For example, the Jets receiver (Hill) pushed off on a 2nd and 9 play in the 4th from the NE 38 and it was not called. 1st and 10 on the NE 22 is a lot different than 2nd and 29 from the NE 48. That drive led to a TD for the Jets and cut the lead to 3. On NE's very next possession, Lloyd pushes off just like Hill and it gets called this time. That was a drive killer. Those kind of things happen all of the time.

Getting screwed is what happened to GB against Seattle. That was a game ending bad call. Getting screwed is what happened to Mia against Pitt a couple of years ago. That is a game ending bad call.

The clock play and the PI call were the correct calls, but even if they were not, I don't call that getting screwed. Neither of those things would have ended the game. The Jets had the ball on the NE 18 (tie game) with 2:01 left. What more can you ask for. Get a first down and the game is over. They had a chance to keep the game going in OT with just a FG, but fumbled the ball away. Even if NE had not kicked the FG (from the PI call drive), they would have been in FG range after the Jets fumble and would have kicked the game winner. The Jets had plenty of chances and can only blame themselves for the loss.

Locke
10-24-2012, 03:30 PM
If they scored TDs instead of FGs, it wouldn't have mattered. Hey, that sounds familiar now that I think about it. Must be a Tony Sparano thing...

nyjunc
10-24-2012, 03:42 PM
If they scored TDs instead of FGs, it wouldn't have mattered. Hey, that sounds familiar now that I think about it. Must be a Tony Sparano thing...

you know our kickers this year have attempted the same # of FGs, right? except we have played 1 more game so you are attempting more per game.

Locke
10-24-2012, 03:53 PM
you know our kickers this year have attempted the same # of FGs, right? except we have played 1 more game so you are attempting more per game.

Useless stat and completely situational. Bring me red zone trips and TD/FG percent, and then you'll have a point. More than that, show me playcalls in the redzone. Miami has a talent issue at the skill positions, so trying and failing for touchdowns is different than the Sparano way of 3 runs and a cloud of dust, lest we turn the ball over.

You claim not to be a homer, but here you are, defending every little thing that could even be considered negative in the loosest sense of the word when it comes to the Jets. You are incapable of letting anyone say a word about them without chiming in. Vaark is right. You may not be the biggest homer on the site, but you are definitely top 10...

nyjunc
10-24-2012, 04:02 PM
Useless stat and completely situational. Bring me red zone trips and TD/FG percent, and then you'll have a point. More than that, show me playcalls in the redzone. Miami has a talent issue at the skill positions, so trying and failing for touchdowns is different than the Sparano way of 3 runs and a cloud of dust, lest we turn the ball over.

You claim not to be a homer, but here you are, defending every little thing that could even be considered negative in the loosest sense of the word when it comes to the Jets. You are incapable of letting anyone say a word about them without chiming in. Vaark is right. You may not be the biggest homer on the site, but you are definitely top 10...

I am not a homer at all and you taking advice from the biggest homer on the site is laughable. I am here to tell the truth, there's a lot of jealous nonsense posted and I set the record straight. Our RZ O has been good but you see one game where we have 4 FGs and you assume all we do is play for FGs. only 2 games this year have we attempted 3 or more and both were OT games(one where we attempted #3 in OT and one where we had 4 in regulation) but please spread the lies b/c they will be accepted on here and you can deflect by calling the opposing fan a homer.

The New Guy
10-24-2012, 04:22 PM
I am not a homer at all and you taking advice from the biggest homer on the site is laughable. I am here to tell the truth, there's a lot of jealous nonsense posted and I set the record straight. Our RZ O has been good but you see one game where we have 4 FGs and you assume all we do is play for FGs. only 2 games this year have we attempted 3 or more and both were OT games(one where we attempted #3 in OT and one where we had 4 in regulation) but please spread the lies b/c they will be accepted on here and you can deflect by calling the opposing fan a homer.

I don't think the Jets are playing for FGs, but rather the bad play calling and execution are leading to more FG attempts. Why the Jets threw a slant to Schillens on 3rd and 1 or 2 against NE, I have no idea. The amount of FGs Miami has attempted is meaningless since the Jets have a higher RZ scoring attempt %, while having a slightly lower actual RZ scoring % than Miami. If you are comparing your O to a Dolphins O (and are worse) lead by a rookie head coach, and a rookie QB who has less than stellar receivers to throw to, you know your O has problems.


I think my post with my thoughts on the bad calls got buried on page 1, so I am posting my own quote below.



I hate NE as much as anyone, but I don't agree. On the KO, the clock did start when it should have. The clock is at 2:06 when he receives the ball, and goes down to 2:05 right before he crosses the 5 yard line. You can not expect the clock to go from 2:06 to 2:05 as soon as he touched the ball. That second has to go by and he has to be in the field of play. If you watch the kickoff return for a touchdown earlier in the game, you will see that the clock is at 8:51 and does not go to 8:50 until he is at the 5 yard line. This is completely normal. You can look up any kickoff return.

The clock is supposed to stop when a player recovers the ball and is down by contact. The Jets player #39 clearly recovers the ball at 2:02, and is touched down at 2:01. That is when the clock should stop. You can't really tell exactly when the official is waving his arms or blowing the whistle, but you can clearly see that the Jets recovered the ball and is being touched by a NE player at 2:01. The clock often does run longer on a play like that, but that does not mean it is supposed to.

It was strange that the PI came from the back judge instead of the one who was closer to the players, but it was still PI.

I don't think the Jets got screwed by the officials. For example, the Jets receiver (Hill) pushed off on a 2nd and 9 play in the 4th from the NE 38 and it was not called. 1st and 10 on the NE 22 is a lot different than 2nd and 29 from the NE 48. That drive led to a TD for the Jets and cut the lead to 3. On NE's very next possession, Lloyd pushes off just like Hill and it gets called this time. That was a drive killer. Those kind of things happen all of the time.

Getting screwed is what happened to GB against Seattle. That was a game ending bad call. Getting screwed is what happened to Mia against Pitt a couple of years ago. That is a game ending bad call.

The clock play and the PI call were the correct calls, but even if they were not, I don't call that getting screwed. Neither of those things would have ended the game. The Jets had the ball on the NE 18 (tie game) with 2:01 left. What more can you ask for. Get a first down and the game is over. They had a chance to keep the game going in OT with just a FG, but fumbled the ball away. Even if NE had not kicked the FG (from the PI call drive), they would have been in FG range after the Jets fumble and would have kicked the game winner. The Jets had plenty of chances and can only blame themselves for the loss.

nyjunc
10-24-2012, 04:34 PM
I don't think the Jets are playing for FGs, but rather the bad play calling and execution are leading to more FG attempts. Why the Jets threw a slant to Schillens on 3rd and 1 or 2 against NE, I have no idea. The amount of FGs Miami has attempted is meaningless since the Jets have a higher RZ scoring attempt %, while having a slightly lower actual RZ scoring % than Miami. If you are comparing your O to a Dolphins O (and are worse) lead by a rookie head coach, and a rookie QB who has less than stellar receivers to throw to, you know your O has problems.


I think my post with my thoughts on the bad calls got buried on page 1, so I am posting my own quote below.

your rookie QB is playing in the same system he played in at A&M, neither of us have a ton of talent on O but your run game is better and we were decimated by injury most of this season.

we got screwed w/ the clock, Stevie wonder could see it. I posted the video, I don't kow what you were watching but it was a different play.

The New Guy
10-24-2012, 05:35 PM
your rookie QB is playing in the same system he played in at A&M, neither of us have a ton of talent on O but your run game is better and we were decimated by injury most of this season.

we got screwed w/ the clock, Stevie wonder could see it. I posted the video, I don't kow what you were watching but it was a different play.

Your QB is in his 4th year in the NFL. If he was anything close to what you always claim he is, that alone should give your offense a huge advantage. There are no excuses. You shouldn't be comparing your offense to one that is led by a rookie with as little experience in college (let alone the NFL) as Tannehill.

I'm watching the right play. The clock starts when it is supposed to. That is not even debatable. You can clearly see that it changes from 2:06 to 2:05 right before he crosses the 5 yard line. Watch any kickoff return and you will see it usually takes a second before the returner crosses the 5 yard line.




The Jets recovered the ball at the 2:02 mark

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif



He was touched down at 2:01.


http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif


That is when the clock should stop. If you watch the video and time it, you can clearly see that he has possession and is being touched by a NE player before the clock should go to 2:00. Whining about this is silly. If your team can't win the game when they are given the ball on the opponents 18 yard line (with the score tied) with 2:01 seconds left in the game, they don't deserve to win.

JETSJETSJETS
10-24-2012, 06:41 PM
Your QB is in his 4th year in the NFL. If he was anything close to what you always claim he is, that alone should give your offense a huge advantage. There are no excuses. You shouldn't be comparing your offense to one that is led by a rookie with as little experience in college (let alone the NFL) as Tannehill.

I'm watching the right play. The clock starts when it is supposed to. That is not even debatable. You can clearly see that it changes from 2:06 to 2:05 right before he crosses the 5 yard line. Watch any kickoff return and you will see it usually takes a second before the returner crosses the 5 yard line.




The Jets recovered the ball at the 2:02 mark

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif



He was touched down at 2:01.


http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif


That is when the clock should stop. If you watch the video and time it, you can clearly see that he has possession and is being touched by a NE player before the clock should go to 2:00. Whining about this is silly. If your team can't win the game when they are given the ball on the opponents 18 yard line (with the score tied) with 2:01 seconds left in the game, they don't deserve to win.

Once touched at 2:01, ref has to clearly see that the defender take control of the ball, and then be touched. Watch the play, not the pics. The ref blew the whistle ATLEAST 2 seconds after the clock had stopped. The clock can not stop until the refs blow the whistle. Watch the play again and prove me wrong.

The PI call was BS. Hernandez didn't even look for a flag until it was thrown from a far. There were 5-6 Pats player on the sideline right there. None begged for a flag. One of their assistants saw the flag from a far and started pointing at it. If players get interfered, they scream for flag especially when the guy next to you doesn't throw it. Its not rocket science. As for the non-call on Hill, he didn't push off. The defender put his hands on Hill's chest and Hill shoved off his hand from his chest. If anything, that should have been a holding call on the D since it was beyond 5 yards. You can not put ur hands on the receiver and slow him down. You can put ur hands on the receiver as long as you are not slowing him down. When the WR is running directly at you and you put a hand on his chest, Im pretty sure you just slowed down his speed, even if it was marginal. Either way, it was a good no call.

However, bad officiating is part of the game. When you are on the receiving end of it, you feel terrible. When you are on the other end of it, you generally don't even notice is. Jets had their chances of winning the game, but bad play calling on that 3rd & 1 slant to Schillen, and soft play calling after the fumble recovery is what cost the Jets the game. I think Jets should have tried to punch it in for a TD on that slant to Schillen. They didn't. On 4th and 1, they should have gone for it. You don't get many opportunities to beat the Pats so make full use of it.

Lets hope officials don't make any bad calls in the next game so no one can play the blame game. Ive been very surprised by Miami's play so far this season. I didn't think they would be a 3-3 team thus far.

The New Guy
10-24-2012, 09:19 PM
Once touched at 2:01, ref has to clearly see that the defender take control of the ball, and then be touched. Watch the play, not the pics. The ref blew the whistle ATLEAST 2 seconds after the clock had stopped. The clock can not stop until the refs blow the whistle. Watch the play again and prove me wrong.


How do you know exactly when the clocked stopped? We don't get to see the tenths of the second like we do in the NBA. From the time the clock hits 2:01, you still have 10-tenths of a second before it changes to 2:00.

The clock is not supposed to start until the player enters the field of play. If you get a stop watch and start it when he crosses the goal line and stop it when you hear the actual whistle, I get 6.3 seconds. We are talking about 4 -tenths of a second (5.9 seconds) for the game clock to still read 2:01. Remember, 4-tenths of a second.


The game clock operator shall stop the game clock (timeout) upon a signal by any official or upon the operator’s own positive
knowledge:


Signaling does not mean hearing the whistle. If you watch the video closely, you can see the official come in to the bottom left screen waving his arms up (and on the way down) before you hear the whistle blow. We don't know exactly when he started waving his arms, but you can clearly tell that he is waving his arms before you hear the whistle blow. Watch the video closely and let me know how much time you think passes from the time he starts to wave his arms until you hear the whistle. 2-tenths of a second? 3? Remember we are talking about 4 - tenths of a second difference for the clock to read 2:01 instead of 2:00. That is from the time he enters the field of play to when we actually hear the whistle blow, and not from the time he started waving his arms (which we are not certain of, but know it happened before he blew the whistle) . I personally think you can clearly tell who has possession long before you hear the whistle blow, but we are talking about 4- tenths of a second from the time you actually hear the whistle. Here is a screen shot at 5.5 seconds:

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif



I don't think it is out of the question to assume that the official could have determined possession and was waving his arms 4 or 5 tenths of a second before you hear the whistle. When you are dealing with tenths of a second, I think it is silly to say the Jets got screwed. Just watch the play and you can clearly determine yourself who has possession and is touched down before you hear the actual whistle. It is very reasonable to believe that the clock should have stopped at 2:01.






The PI call was BS. Hernandez didn't even look for a flag until it was thrown from a far. There were 5-6 Pats player on the sideline right there. None begged for a flag. One of their assistants saw the flag from a far and started pointing at it. If players get interfered, they scream for flag especially when the guy next to you doesn't throw it. Its not rocket science.

I think you have been watching Holmes play too much. He begs for a flag even when he is not interfered with. :lol: Not every player complains when they are interfered with. I don't know what you are talking about with the players on the sideline because several of the players were upset that the flag was not thrown sooner. Jim Nantz even made a comment about it during the game. It was clearly PI as Wilson is pulling on Hernandez as he is trying to come back to the ball. Even Junc will tell you that was PI.




As for the non-call on Hill, he didn't push off. The defender put his hands on Hill's chest and Hill shoved off his hand from his chest. If anything, that should have been a holding call on the D since it was beyond 5 yards. You can not put ur hands on the receiver and slow him down. You can put ur hands on the receiver as long as you are not slowing him down. When the WR is running directly at you and you put a hand on his chest, Im pretty sure you just slowed down his speed, even if it was marginal. Either way, it was a good no call.

I completely disagree. The play was very similar to the Lloyd push off that got called. It should have been called.




However, bad officiating is part of the game. When you are on the receiving end of it, you feel terrible. When you are on the other end of it, you generally don't even notice is. Jets had their chances of winning the game, but bad play calling on that 3rd & 1 slant to Schillen, and soft play calling after the fumble recovery is what cost the Jets the game. I think Jets should have tried to punch it in for a TD on that slant to Schillen. They didn't. On 4th and 1, they should have gone for it. You don't get many opportunities to beat the Pats so make full use of it.

Lets hope officials don't make any bad calls in the next game so no one can play the blame game. Ive been very surprised by Miami's play so far this season. I didn't think they would be a 3-3 team thus far.

That is something we both can agree on.

1972fins
10-24-2012, 10:10 PM
you know our kickers this year have attempted the same # of FGs, right? except we have played 1 more game so you are attempting more per game.

Yeah I know the Fins are not as good as the jests, but lets face it pats played like **** and you couldn't beat them, both teams looked like ****.
The only reason why you felt good about sanchez is because of how bad the pats D is, you guys are ****ed.

EvilDylan
10-24-2012, 11:35 PM
Speaking of field goals. Yes we've played one less
game than you, but don't forget you played one game where you didn't even get to attempt a single one. So once again, your stats that you always bring up but claim aren't important are skewed

nyjunc
10-25-2012, 08:21 AM
Your QB is in his 4th year in the NFL. If he was anything close to what you always claim he is, that alone should give your offense a huge advantage. There are no excuses. You shouldn't be comparing your offense to one that is led by a rookie with as little experience in college (let alone the NFL) as Tannehill.

I'm watching the right play. The clock starts when it is supposed to. That is not even debatable. You can clearly see that it changes from 2:06 to 2:05 right before he crosses the 5 yard line. Watch any kickoff return and you will see it usually takes a second before the returner crosses the 5 yard line.




The Jets recovered the ball at the 2:02 mark

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif



He was touched down at 2:01.


http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif


That is when the clock should stop. If you watch the video and time it, you can clearly see that he has possession and is being touched by a NE player before the clock should go to 2:00. Whining about this is silly. If your team can't win the game when they are given the ball on the opponents 18 yard line (with the score tied) with 2:01 seconds left in the game, they don't deserve to win.

he doesn't have control of it at 2:02 and he's still rolling at 2:01, that was the fastest stopping of a clock in league history. It was 100% BS but it's not why we lost.



Speaking of field goals. Yes we've played one less
game than you, but don't forget you played one game where you didn't even get to attempt a single one. So once again, your stats that you always bring up but claim aren't important are skewed

so we played a full game and didn't attempt a FG, how does that help your argument? we played 7 games and attempted 11 FGs, you played 6 and attempted 11 FGs.

EvilDylan
10-25-2012, 10:20 AM
You played an entire game and didn't sniff the redzone. That's the definition of pathetic.

The New Guy
10-25-2012, 10:53 AM
he doesn't have control of it at 2:02 and he's still rolling at 2:01, that was the fastest stopping of a clock in league history. It was 100% BS but it's not why we lost.



Read post # 19 on page 2. Even if he is still rolling at 2:01, he still has 10-tenths before the clock reads 2:00. He was touched down as soon as the clock changed to 2:01, so the official had nearly a full second to determine possession after he was touched down with the ball. I believe you can clearly tell he had possession within the 2:02 mark. Can you tell he has possession in this photo?

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

That is right before the clock changes to 2:01, so you still have another second to determine possession after the above photo. Here is another one that is at the 2:01 mark, but remember, all 10-tenths of the second need to go by before the clock will read 2:00 and the photo below is still within that time frame :

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

nyjunc
10-25-2012, 11:56 AM
it's not possible for a person to react to stopping a clokc that quickly for it to stop w/ 2:01 to play. It was shady, you know it and everyone knows it.

---------- Post added at 11:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 AM ----------


You played an entire game and didn't sniff the redzone. That's the definition of pathetic.

you scored 3 pts against Houston, was that much better? we were actually in our game in the 3rd qtr, you weren't.

EvilDylan
10-25-2012, 12:15 PM
you scored 3 pts against Houston, was that much better? we were actually in our game in the 3rd qtr, you weren't.

Yes, it is better.

You can also attribute our problems to a rookie QB's first game in the NFL and an entire new coaching staff.

Whats your excuse?

nyjunc
10-25-2012, 12:59 PM
Yes, it is better.

You can also attribute our problems to a rookie QB's first game in the NFL and an entire new coaching staff.

Whats your excuse?

but that rookie was in the same system he played in at A&M which was a HUGE advantage for him. Mark's first game he was excellent playing in the same building.

The New Guy
10-25-2012, 02:14 PM
it's not possible for a person to react to stopping a clokc that quickly for it to stop w/ 2:01 to play. It was shady, you know it and everyone knows it.



The entire play from the time he enters the field of play to the time the whistle blows in only 6.3 seconds. That is 4-tenths of a second away from the clock reading 2:01. Watch the video and you will see that the official is waving his arms before you hear the whistle blow. We have no clue how long the official started waving his arms before the whistle blew. You can see in the pictures in my last post above that he clearly has possession at 2:02. Are you are saying that it is impossible for the official to start waving his arms, and the game clock operator to stop the clock within a full second after that? There is more than enough evidence to say that he reasonably could have. The NFL thought so as well.

JETSJETSJETS
10-25-2012, 02:15 PM
How do you know exactly when the clocked stopped? We don't get to see the tenths of the second like we do in the NBA. From the time the clock hits 2:01, you still have 10-tenths of a second before it changes to 2:00.

Because the clock stopped at 2:01 and the ref blew the whistle 2-3 seconds after that. Watch the play and HEAR the whistle.


The clock is not supposed to start until the player enters the field of play. If you get a stop watch and start it when he crosses the goal line and stop it when you hear the actual whistle, I get 6.3 seconds. We are talking about 4 -tenths of a second (5.9 seconds) for the game clock to still read 2:01. Remember, 4-tenths of a second.

First off, Im not even talking about when the clock starts. It started at the right time, when the player came out of the EZ. Secondly, we are not discussing how long the play took. We are discussing when the refs blew the whistle to call the play dead. The clock stops only when refs blow the whistle. Thirdly, you don't know if the kicking team made a clean recovery for him to be called down at contact. Exactly why the ref took 2-3 seconds before making the call and blowing the whistle.


Signaling does not mean hearing the whistle. If you watch the video closely, you can see the official come in to the bottom left screen waving his arms up (and on the way down) before you hear the whistle blow. We don't know exactly when he started waving his arms, but you can clearly tell that he is waving his arms before you hear the whistle blow. Watch the video closely and let me know how much time you think passes from the time he starts to wave his arms until you hear the whistle. 2-tenths of a second? 3? Remember we are talking about 4 - tenths of a second difference for the clock to read 2:01 instead of 2:00. That is from the time he enters the field of play to when we actually hear the whistle blow, and not from the time he started waving his arms (which we are not certain of, but know it happened before he blew the whistle) . I personally think you can clearly tell who has possession long before you hear the whistle blow, but we are talking about 4- tenths of a second from the time you actually hear the whistle. Here is a screen shot at 5.5 seconds:

Again, you are trying to twist my words. The clock stops when ref blows the whistle. In this play, the clock stopped way before that. Im not talking to you about tenths of seconds and all that bs. Im not even talking about a split second hered. You can hear the whistle very cleanly and it comes about 2-3 seconds after the clock had stopped. You can argue the clock has to go the entire one second before it can drop to 2:00, but Im talking about 2-3 seconds, not a split second.


I don't think it is out of the question to assume that the official could have determined possession and was waving his arms 4 or 5 tenths of a second before you hear the whistle. When you are dealing with tenths of a second, I think it is silly to say the Jets got screwed. Just watch the play and you can clearly determine yourself who has possession and is touched down before you hear the actual whistle. It is very reasonable to believe that the clock should have stopped at 2:01.

Again, the clock stops when the whistle is blown. The ref waving his hand and blowing is whistle is almost simultaneous. Almost. But that is irrelevant.


I think you have been watching Holmes play too much. He begs for a flag even when he is not interfered with. :lol: Not every player complains when they are interfered with. I don't know what you are talking about with the players on the sideline because several of the players were upset that the flag was not thrown sooner. Jim Nantz even made a comment about it during the game. It was clearly PI as Wilson is pulling on Hernandez as he is trying to come back to the ball. Even Junc will tell you that was PI.

A few plays later, Hernandez was begging for a PI call. Same WR, same CB, and probably the same ref he was shouting at that gave the PI call earlier. Maybe not all players beg for a PI, but Im sure when its 3rd down and in OT, you are interfered with, you look for a flag and try to make ur case. I know Hernandez did later on.

EvilDylan
10-25-2012, 02:15 PM
Same system or not, he was a rookie in the nfl. Growing pains.

the 2009 Texans are not even close to the team they are this year an neither is the jets defense close this year to what they were in 2009.

nyjunc
10-25-2012, 02:25 PM
Same system or not, he was a rookie in the nfl. Growing pains.

the 2009 Texans are not even close to the team they are this year an neither is the jets defense close this year to what they were in 2009.

Hou isn't as good but they were expected to be a playoff team and were heavy favorites going into that game.

EvilDylan
10-25-2012, 02:31 PM
You are basing your arguments of what teams were "expected" to do?

Seriously, that is just silly.

The New Guy
10-25-2012, 02:45 PM
Because the clock stopped at 2:01 and the ref blew the whistle 2-3 seconds after that. Watch the play and HEAR the whistle.



First off, Im not even talking about when the clock starts. It started at the right time, when the player came out of the EZ. Secondly, we are not discussing how long the play took. We are discussing when the refs blew the whistle to call the play dead. The clock stops only when refs blow the whistle. Thirdly, you don't know if the kicking team made a clean recovery for him to be called down at contact. Exactly why the ref took 2-3 seconds before making the call and blowing the whistle.



Again, you are trying to twist my words. The clock stops when ref blows the whistle. In this play, the clock stopped way before that. Im not talking to you about tenths of seconds and all that bs. Im not even talking about a split second hered. You can hear the whistle very cleanly and it comes about 2-3 seconds after the clock had stopped. You can argue the clock has to go the entire one second before it can drop to 2:00, but Im talking about 2-3 seconds, not a split second.



Again, the clock stops when the whistle is blown. The ref waving his hand and blowing is whistle is almost simultaneous. Almost. But that is irrelevant.



A few plays later, Hernandez was begging for a PI call. Same WR, same CB, and probably the same ref he was shouting at that gave the PI call earlier. Maybe not all players beg for a PI, but Im sure when its 3rd down and in OT, you are interfered with, you look for a flag and try to make ur case. I know Hernandez did later on.


There was 2:06 on the clock when he received the kick. From the time he entered the field of play to the time the whistle blew was only 6.3 seconds. That is only 4-tenths of a second away from the clock reading 2:01 instead of 2:00. You can see the clock move to 2:01 and it looks like it stops, but you have no clue how many tenths ran off before the clock was actually stopped. It is impossible for the whistle to have come 2-3 seconds after the clock was stopped since the entire play only took 6.3 seconds. Even if the clock operator stopped the clock as soon as it hit 2:01, the longest it could have taken would be 1 second. It could have come as little as 4 tenths of a second later if the clock operator stopped it right before it was supposed to change to 2:00. This is to the time the whistle blows, not when you can clearly tell he has possession and is being touched down which is before the whistle blows.

You admit that the official was waving his arms before the whistle blew and that can clearly be verified by watching the video. The rule does not say the clock can only stop when the official blows the whistle. It says:


The game clock operator shall stop the game clock (timeout) upon a signal by any official or upon the operatorís own positive
knowledge:

I'm sure waving of the arms is considered a signal. We don't know exactly when he started waving his arms, but we know it came before the whistle. It is very reasonable to think that he was waving his arms less than 3-tenths of a second before we actually see him come in the screen. If you look at the pictures and the time on the clock, it is very easy to see that he had possession and is being touched down long before the clock should turn to 2:00.


The players reaction mean little to me. I can watch the play and tell you it was PI. Junc will even tell you so.

nyjunc
10-25-2012, 02:48 PM
You are basing your arguments of what teams were "expected" to do?

Seriously, that is just silly.

they missed the playoffs by one game, if they beat us week 1 they would have made the playoffs.

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------


There was 2:06 on the clock when he received the kick. From the time he entered the field of play to the time the whistle blew was only 6.3 seconds. That is only 4-tenths of a second away from the clock reading 2:01 instead of 2:00. You can see the clock move to 2:01 and it looks like it stops, but you have no clue how many tenths ran off before the clock was actually stopped. It is impossible for the whistle to have come 2-3 seconds after the clock was stopped since the entire play only took 6.3 seconds. Even if the clock operator stopped the clock as soon as it hit 2:01, the longest it could have taken would be 1 second. It could have come as little as 4 tenths of a second later if the clock operator stopped it right before it was supposed to change to 2:00. This is to the time the whistle blows, not when you can clearly tell he has possession and is being touched down which is before the whistle blows.

You admit that the official was waving his arms before the whistle blew and that can clearly be verified by watching the video. The rule does not say the clock can only stop when the official blows the whistle. It says:



I'm sure waving of the arms is considered a signal. We don't know exactly when he started waving his arms, but we know it came before the whistle. It is very reasonable to think that he was waving his arms less than 3-tenths of a second before we actually see him come in the screen. If you look at the pictures and the time on the clock, it is very easy to see that he had possession and is being touched down long before the clock should turn to 2:00.


The players reaction mean little to me. I can watch the play and tell you it was PI. Junc will even tell you so.

there's no way a clock could stop that quickly, he jumped on the ball and the clock stopped, never will you see a quicker stoppage. we got screwed.

The New Guy
10-25-2012, 03:02 PM
there's no way a clock could stop that quickly, he jumped on the ball and the clock stopped, never will you see a quicker stoppage. we got screwed.

He jumped on the ball and rolled over at 2:02, and the clock then changed to 2:01 when he is touched, so the clock did not stop as soon as he jumped on the ball. Again, you guys have no clue how many tenths ran off (when the clock changed to 2:01) before the clock was actually stopped. You can keep saying you got screwed, but the evidence says otherwise.

nyjunc
10-25-2012, 03:27 PM
He jumped on the ball and rolled over at 2:02, and the clock then changed to 2:01 when he is touched, so the clock did not stop as soon as he jumped on the ball. Again, you guys have no clue how many tenths ran off (when the clock changed to 2:01) before the clock was actually stopped. You can keep saying you got screwed, but the evidence says otherwise.

he wasn't in possession until it hit 2:01 and he rolled over after picking it up, on a normal play there's no way the clock could stop that quikc, on a pile up it's even more ridiculous.

the evidence shows we got screwed, you are the only one saying we didn't.

The New Guy
10-25-2012, 03:41 PM
he wasn't in possession until it hit 2:01 and he rolled over after picking it up, on a normal play there's no way the clock could stop that quikc, on a pile up it's even more ridiculous.

the evidence shows we got screwed, you are the only one saying we didn't.


You don't think he has possession at this point:

http://imageshack.us/a/img685/3800/kickoff4.jpg

How about this one?

http://imageshack.us/a/img42/8266/kickoff3e.jpg

Both of those are well within the time that the clock should read 2:01. You are whining about 4-tenths of a second when the whistle actually blew. He had possession and was touched down (official waving his arms) before the whistle blew. I'm not the only one that knows this. The NFL looked in to the situation and they agree. I don't really care what the NFL says though since I can look at the video / pictures and see for myself.

nyjunc
10-25-2012, 03:51 PM
first one? nope, 2nd one would be about the time the clock operator is pressing the button and at worst it should have gone to 2 mins. I have never seen a clock stop quicker than on that play. We got screwed but again we still should have won.

The New Guy
10-25-2012, 05:50 PM
first one? nope, 2nd one would be about the time the clock operator is pressing the button and at worst it should have gone to 2 mins. I have never seen a clock stop quicker than on that play. We got screwed but again we still should have won.

How long do you think it takes to stop the clock? The 6 seconds had not yet passed in that second photo. That second pic is at 5.5 seconds, which means that the clock should read 2:01. The entire play from the time he enters the field of play to the time the actual whistle blows is only 6.3 seconds. He was waving his arms before the whistle blew (which can be seen in the video) which means that he had signaled for the clock to stop before he blew the whistle. Exactly how long before is not know since he can not be seen, but it is safe to say that it was more than 4-tenths of a second sooner. That proves the clock should have stopped on the 2:01 Mark and not the 2:00 mark.

JETSJETSJETS
10-25-2012, 09:28 PM
There was 2:06 on the clock when he received the kick. From the time he entered the field of play to the time the whistle blew was only 6.3 seconds. That is only 4-tenths of a second away from the clock reading 2:01 instead of 2:00. You can see the clock move to 2:01 and it looks like it stops, but you have no clue how many tenths ran off before the clock was actually stopped. It is impossible for the whistle to have come 2-3 seconds after the clock was stopped since the entire play only took 6.3 seconds. Even if the clock operator stopped the clock as soon as it hit 2:01, the longest it could have taken would be 1 second. It could have come as little as 4 tenths of a second later if the clock operator stopped it right before it was supposed to change to 2:00. This is to the time the whistle blows, not when you can clearly tell he has possession and is being touched down which is before the whistle blows.

When I said "clock stops when whistle blows" I didn't mean 'clock stopped when whistle blew'. The clock stops only after the whistle is blown. And the whistle blew a good 2-3 seconds after the clock had stopped. Watch the play and please stop talking about 6.3 seconds...yet again. We are not talking about how long the play took. We are talking about when the clock stopped.


You admit that the official was waving his arms before the whistle blew and that can clearly be verified by watching the video. The rule does not say the clock can only stop when the official blows the whistle. It says:

Yes, but the ref raised his hand to wave and inhaled a breathe at the same time, and then blew the whistle. The whole process? Maybe one fourth of a second before the whistle blows.


I'm sure waving of the arms is considered a signal. We don't know exactly when he started waving his arms, but we know it came before the whistle. It is very reasonable to think that he was waving his arms less than 3-tenths of a second before we actually see him come in the screen. If you look at the pictures and the time on the clock, it is very easy to see that he had possession and is being touched down long before the clock should turn to 2:00.

No, u can easily see the ref when he starts to wave his hand.


The players reaction mean little to me. I can watch the play and tell you it was PI. Junc will even tell you so.

Im sure u agree with junc on everything. Players reaction is the FIRST clue after the play.

I know you are going to continue bickering around with ur usual nonsense, so unless u have something new to add, please stop. I've made my case. You've made ur case.

The New Guy
10-26-2012, 12:15 PM
You have not made a case. Everything you have said is not true.




When I said "clock stops when whistle blows" I didn't mean 'clock stopped when whistle blew'. The clock stops only after the whistle is blown. And the whistle blew a good 2-3 seconds after the clock had stopped. Watch the play and please stop talking about 6.3 seconds...yet again. We are not talking about how long the play took. We are talking about when the clock stopped.

This is not true, and I proved it by quoting the rulebook. Here it is again for you:


The game clock operator shall stop the game clock (timeout) upon a signal by any official or upon the operator’s own positive
knowledge:

Where does it say that the clock only stops when the whistle blows? It says "Upon a signal" which includes waving of the arms.

How long the entire play last is very important. There were 2:06 seconds on the clock, and you say the clock should have gone to 2:00, meaning all 6 seconds passed in full. You claim that the whistle blew 2-3 seconds after the clock had stopped. There are several problems with that. First, you have no clue when the clock actually stopped. (I do and will show you below) You can see it move to 2:01 and think that it stopped, but you have no clue how many tenths ran off before the clock was stopped. When the clock hits 2:01, all 10-tenths of that second have to pass before the clock moves to 2:00. We have 9-tenths of a second (nearly a full second) where we don't know when the clock actually stopped. It could have been stopped as soon as it hit 2:01, or maybe it didn't get stopped until it was about to change to 2:00 (5.9 seconds pass)

Here is how we can know. It can be proven when it was stopped by watching the next play. If it was stopped as soon as it his 2:01, then nearly a full second would have to go by on the next play before the clock changed to 2:00. If you watch the next play, the clock changes to 2:00 as soon as the ball is snapped to Tebow. This proves that the clock was stopped right before it was going to change to 2:00. (5.9 seconds)

You say that the whistle came 2-3 seconds after the clock stopped. That is impossible. I just proved that the clock was stopped after 5.9 seconds, and we know that we heard the whistle after 6.3 seconds. That is a difference of 4-tenths of a second, not 2 to 3 seconds.





Yes, but the ref raised his hand to wave and inhaled a breathe at the same time, and then blew the whistle. The whole process? Maybe one fourth of a second before the whistle blows.

So you are saying that it takes at least 2-tenths of a second (2.5 tenths is 1/4 of a second) to inhale and blow the whistle? Good! Now we are only 2-tenths away from the clock reading 2:01.






No, u can easily see the ref when he starts to wave his hand.

Unless you have a different shot of it, this is also not true. The Ref is not in the shot and we only see a hand in the bottom left of the screen.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/7395/kickoff5.jpg

We know that is not when he started since his hand is up in the air when we first see it in the video. He was out of the shot and is walking towards the players when we first see his hand in the air. He has to bring it up from his side to wave it in the air. It is very reasonable to assume that he started doing that at least 2-tenths of a second sooner then what we can see in the video. Remember, you agree that we can see him waving his arms at least 2-tenths of a second before we heard the whistle.

Just put all the evidence together.

#1. There was 2:06 on the clock, and from the time he enters the field of play to the time we hear the whistle blow is only 6.3 seconds.
#2. We know the official was waving his arms before we heard the whistle blow.
#3. We know 5.9 seconds ran off the clock since the clock immediately changed to 2:00 (as soon as the ball was snapped) on the next play.
#4. The pictures show the Jets having possession and being touched down before the official is seen waving his arms.


There is no evidence to prove that the clock should have gone to 2:00. There is plenty of evidence to prove why it should have stopped at 2:01.




Im sure u agree with junc on everything. Players reaction is the FIRST clue after the play.

Then you would probably argue that Holmes is interfered with on every play. The reaction of the player means nothing to me. I go on what the rules are and what I see. Wilson interfered with Hernandez. Me and Junc very rarely agree, so if we both see something the same way, it is most likely accurate.

PhinzN703
10-26-2012, 12:44 PM
but that rookie was in the same system he played in at A&M which was a HUGE advantage for him. Mark's first game he was excellent playing in the same building.

Well Sanchez is the best QB in the league and Tannehill, ha, what's he thinking having a tough first game of his NFL career? J.J. Watt is awful, what an overrated hack he is. Why couldn't Tannehill be more like the fabulous Sanchez?

PhinzN703
10-26-2012, 12:46 PM
they missed the playoffs by one game, if they beat us week 1 they would have made the playoffs.

This is the same exact **** you cried about when people said the Dolphins could have been 5-1 at this point. Why would Houston have gone to the playoffs if they won in Week 1? You think it's so easy to just assume the rest of the year would've played out the same exact way had the first game been different?

nyjunc
10-26-2012, 12:48 PM
This is the same exact **** you cried about when people said the Dolphins could have been 5-1 at this point. Why would Houston have gone to the playoffs if they won in Week 1? You think it's so easy to just assume the rest of the year would've played out the same exact way had the first game been different?

they missed by 1 game, we beat them. if they win maybe the season doesn't play out the same- maybe the win 2 or 3 more games? who knows? but what we do know is they missed by one game on a tiebreaker to us b/c we beat them.

JETSJETSJETS
10-26-2012, 04:56 PM
You have not made a case. Everything you have said is not true.

Its all true.


This is not true, and I proved it by quoting the rulebook. Here it is again for you:

The clock stopped way before the ref signaled.


Where does it say that the clock only stops when the whistle blows? It says "Upon a signal" which includes waving of the arms.


Waving of the arm and whistle were almost simultaneous, not three seconds apart.


How long the entire play last is very important.

No its not. We are talking about when the clock stops. I could care less what happened before that.


There were 2:06 seconds on the clock, and you say the clock should have gone to 2:00, meaning all 6 seconds passed in full. You claim that the whistle blew 2-3 seconds after the clock had stopped. There are several problems with that. First, you have no clue when the clock actually stopped. (I do and will show you below) You can see it move to 2:01 and think that it stopped, but you have no clue how many tenths ran off before the clock was stopped. When the clock hits 2:01, all 10-tenths of that second have to pass before the clock moves to 2:00. We have 9-tenths of a second (nearly a full second) where we don't know when the clock actually stopped. It could have been stopped as soon as it hit 2:01, or maybe it didn't get stopped until it was about to change to 2:00 (5.9 seconds pass)

Again, a whistle is what calls the play dead. Without a whistle, players don't know if play is dead. The whistle blew three seconds after the clock had stopped. Maybe the clock didn't stop on 2:01. Maybe it stopped at 2:00:20. Then the whistle blew TWO seconds after.


Here is how we can know. It can be proven when it was stopped by watching the next play. If it was stopped as soon as it his 2:01, then nearly a full second would have to go by on the next play before the clock changed to 2:00. If you watch the next play, the clock changes to 2:00 as soon as the ball is snapped to Tebow. This proves that the clock was stopped right before it was going to change to 2:00. (5.9 seconds)


Wrong again. We were never arguing over two tenths of a second.


You say that the whistle came 2-3 seconds after the clock stopped. That is impossible. I just proved that the clock was stopped after 5.9 seconds, and we know that we heard the whistle after 6.3 seconds. That is a difference of 4-tenths of a second, not 2 to 3 seconds.

You are wrong again. Let me prove it to you in ur words. If the play took 6.3 seconds then from 2:06:00 minus 6:3 seconds is 1:59:70.

If the clocks shows 2:01, does it mean it might be 2:00:2? As in 2 tenths of a second away from 2 minute warning?
If yes, then 2:06 can be anywhere between 2:05:01 to 2:06:00. Agreed? Now do the math and deduct 6.3 seconds from 2:06, the most time remaining on that sixth second possible. You also have to consider the operators reaction time, which is about one tenth of a second to say the least so even the 5.9 second bs is wrong.


So you are saying that it takes at least 2-tenths of a second (2.5 tenths is 1/4 of a second) to inhale and blow the whistle? Good! Now we are only 2-tenths away from the clock reading 2:01.

Either way you slice, 3 seconds can not be cut down to .2 to .4 seconds u claim.


Unless you have a different shot of it, this is also not true. The Ref is not in the shot and we only see a hand in the bottom left of the screen.

Yes, hes not in the screen, but when he waves his hand, its easy to tell he was right there just outside the visible area and the moment he waved his hand, it showed up in the screen. You have to use judgement, which I know you won't cuz ur stuck with ur made up 4 tenths of a second bs.



#1. There was 2:06 on the clock, and from the time he enters the field of play to the time we hear the whistle blow is only 6.3 seconds.
#2. We know the official was waving his arms before we heard the whistle blow.
#3. We know 5.9 seconds ran off the clock since the clock immediately changed to 2:00 (as soon as the ball was snapped) on the next play.
#4. The pictures show the Jets having possession and being touched down before the official is seen waving his arms.

There is no evidence to prove that the clock should have gone to 2:00. There is plenty of evidence to prove why it should have stopped at 2:01.


Yes, there is more than enough evidence to prove the clock should have stopped at 1:59 to say the least. Here is the proof. Watch the replay of the recovery from another angle. You will see the Jets player didn't have full control of the ball when the returner touched him. The angle you can see this is shown after Jets first down play when clock stops at 1:56 for the 2-min warning.


Then you would probably argue that Holmes is interfered with on every play. The reaction of the player means nothing to me. I go on what the rules are and what I see. Wilson interfered with Hernandez. Me and Junc very rarely agree, so if we both see something the same way, it is most likely accurate.

I never said players reaction is what should be considered a PI. But if PI truly occurred, the WR will ask for a flag...generally speaking. A few plays later, the same player was begging for a flag against the same defender. I wonder why he was begging for the flag on that play and not on one of the most crucial play of that drive? And u agreeing with Junc has no meaning. WVDolphin agrees with me, does that mean me and him are also correct? How can two people have different view of the same play, yet both be right? You don't make any sense when u say junc agrees with u so you must be right. You should visit theganggreen.com and see how many of us disagree with Junc on several things.

You still fail to get the point. Point is, Jets had every opportunity to win that game. They couldn't. Refs made some bad calls, but they were not the reason Jets lost.

The New Guy
10-27-2012, 05:20 PM
The clock stopped way before the ref signaled.

No, it didn't. Do you agree that the clock should have stopped when the whistle blew? If yes, then you are whining over 4-tenths of a second. From the time he enters the field of play to the time the whistle blows is only 6.3 seconds. There was 2:06 on the clock when the play started, which means 5.9 seconds can pass and the clock would read 2:01. That is exactly what happened. You are whining over 4-tenths when the whistle blew. We know the official was signaling the play dead at least 2-tenths before he blew the whistle, and it is clear that he had possession and was down by contact at least 4-tenths before the whistle blew.




Waving of the arm and whistle were almost simultaneous, not three seconds apart.

Who said anything about 3 seconds apart? I said at least 2-tenths and you said 1/4 of a second which is 2.5 tenths. So, we agree on at least 2-tenths of a second.




No its not. We are talking about when the clock stops. I could care less what happened before that.

You already agreed that the clock started when it should have, and we know how long the play took until the whistle blew. (6.3 seconds) If the clock reads 2:06, and the whistle blew 6.3 seconds after the clock started, it is impossible for the whistle to have come 2-3 seconds after the clock had stopped and the clock to read 2:01. Even if it stopped as soon as it turned to 2:01, the most it could be is 1.3 seconds. 6.3 seconds minus 5 seconds (2:06 to 2:01) = 1.3 seconds.

I already proved that we know it didn't stop as soon as it hit 2:01 because it immediately changed to 2:00 on the next play.




Again, a whistle is what calls the play dead. Without a whistle, players don't know if play is dead. The whistle blew three seconds after the clock had stopped. Maybe the clock didn't stop on 2:01. Maybe it stopped at 2:00:20. Then the whistle blew TWO seconds after.

We are not talking about the players. We are talking about when the game clock operator is supposed to stop the clock. He is looking for the officials signal, not listening for a whistle. Did you not read the quote from the rule book that I posted?

We know the clock stopped closer to 2:00:10 (It would actually be 2:01.01 since the clock is counting backwards, but I know what you mean) by watching the next play when it immediately changes to 2:00. This means that the clock can stop after 5.9 seconds and still read 2:01. You can hear the whistle blow at 6.3 seconds. 6.3 seconds minus 5.9 seconds = 0.4 seconds. Not 2 or 3 seconds like you keep saying.





Wrong again. We were never arguing over two tenths of a second.

We absolutely are. The clock read 2:06 and we heard the whistle after 6.3 seconds. That is 4-tenths away from the clock reading 2:01. We saw the official waving his arms at least 2-tenths before that, so you are really whining over 2-tenths of a second. It is easy to tell that he had possession and was down by contact long before the whistle came, but even if you want to take it to the whistle, the clock stopped only 4-tenths of a second before the whistle blew. 4-tenths is not getting screwed like you guys keep whining about.




You are wrong again. Let me prove it to you in ur words. If the play took 6.3 seconds then from 2:06:00 minus 6:3 seconds is 1:59:70.

If the clocks shows 2:01, does it mean it might be 2:00:2? As in 2 tenths of a second away from 2 minute warning?
If yes, then 2:06 can be anywhere between 2:05:01 to 2:06:00. Agreed? Now do the math and deduct 6.3 seconds from 2:06, the most time remaining on that sixth second possible. You also have to consider the operators reaction time, which is about one tenth of a second to say the least so even the 5.9 second bs is wrong.

No, I am not wrong, and no we don't agree. You made a critical error. 2:06 could potentially be anywhere from 2:06.01 to 2:06.99. If it was at 2:06:00, the clock would have immediately changed to 2:05 as soon as he enters the field of play on the KO return. You are trying to skip a full second.

2:06.99 minus 6.3 seconds is 2:00.69, which is 4-tenths away from the clock reading 2:01. We know it was 2:06.99 by watching the play before the KO fumble. It was the Jets FG attempt to tie the game. The clock was at 2:11 before the attempt, and the official is giving the signal as soon as it changes to 2:06. The football actually hits the back of the net at the end of the 2:07.00 mark. So we know there should be 2:06.99 on the clock for the next play. That means 5.9 seconds can easily pass and the clock would still read 2:01. We heard the whistle after 6.3 seconds, so again, the difference is only 4-tenths of a second when we heard the whistle.

We already know that the play was being signaled dead before we heard the whistle, so again we are actually talking about 2-tenths of a second.




Either way you slice, 3 seconds can not be cut down to .2 to .4 seconds u claim.

This is proven to be incorrect above. It is 2-tenths, and it is impossible for it to be 3 seconds.




Yes, hes not in the screen, but when he waves his hand, its easy to tell he was right there just outside the visible area and the moment he waved his hand, it showed up in the screen. You have to use judgement, which I know you won't cuz ur stuck with ur made up 4 tenths of a second bs.

How is it easy to tell when we can not see him? How do we know he was just outside the visible area and not further away? There is nothing made up about 4-tenths. What is made up is the 2-3 seconds you keep saying. Get a stop watch and time the play for yourself. I have no faith in you coming up with the correct time, but it is 6.3 seconds to the time we actually hear the whistle. There was 2:06.99 on the clock and 5.9 of it ran off. 6.3 minus 5.9 = .04.




Yes, there is more than enough evidence to prove the clock should have stopped at 1:59 to say the least. Here is the proof. Watch the replay of the recovery from another angle. You will see the Jets player didn't have full control of the ball when the returner touched him. The angle you can see this is shown after Jets first down play when clock stops at 1:56 for the 2-min warning.

It is impossible for the clock to have reached 1:59 when it started at 2:06 and we heard the whistle after 6.3 seconds. I'm not saying he had possession and was ruled down as soon as the clock turned to 2:01. I am saying that it was well in to the 2:01 second (2:01.10 counting down right before it was going to change to 2:00) when possession was determined. This shot is a 5.5 seconds:

http://imageshack.us/a/img42/8266/kickoff3e.jpg

He clearly has possession at that point and is touched down. The clock would still read 2:01 at that point. The clock operator still has another 4-tenths of a second after that shot to stop the clock and it would still read 2:01. You can't honestly tell me that if NE had stripped the ball away after the above photo, that you would not be arguing that he already had possession and was touched down. You know you would be, and I would as well because it is easy to tell.



I never said players reaction is what should be considered a PI. But if PI truly occurred, the WR will ask for a flag...generally speaking. A few plays later, the same player was begging for a flag against the same defender. I wonder why he was begging for the flag on that play and not on one of the most crucial play of that drive? And u agreeing with Junc has no meaning. WVDolphin agrees with me, does that mean me and him are also correct? How can two people have different view of the same play, yet both be right? You don't make any sense when u say junc agrees with u so you must be right. You should visit theganggreen.com and see how many of us disagree with Junc on several things.

I have no idea what goes through a players mind. I do know the rules and what I see though. It was PI. Me and Junc agreeing that it was pass interference is meaningless. I only said that because Junc is a big Jets fan. He has no reason to say it was PI if it was not. You as a bias Jets fan do. Me and Junc and you and WV can not all be right. Obviously, you and WV are wrong. :chuckle:



You still fail to get the point. Point is, Jets had every opportunity to win that game. They couldn't. Refs made some bad calls, but they were not the reason Jets lost.

I fully understand that point and said the same thing many times. That is not what I am debating. I am debating that the correct calls were made. I don't like to hear whining and claims of getting screwed when they are simply not true.

JETSJETSJETS
10-29-2012, 02:43 AM
No, it didn't. Do you agree that the clock should have stopped when the whistle blew? If yes, then you are whining over 4-tenths of a second. From the time he enters the field of play to the time the whistle blows is only 6.3 seconds. There was 2:06 on the clock when the play started, which means 5.9 seconds can pass and the clock would read 2:01. That is exactly what happened. You are whining over 4-tenths when the whistle blew. We know the official was signaling the play dead at least 2-tenths before he blew the whistle, and it is clear that he had possession and was down by contact at least 4-tenths before the whistle blew.

No and no, and Im not gonna continue to be repetitive.


Who said anything about 3 seconds apart? I said at least 2-tenths and you said 1/4 of a second which is 2.5 tenths. So, we agree on at least 2-tenths of a second.

YOU are whining over the tenths of this and tenths of that. not me. Im claiming seconds.


You already agreed that the clock started when it should have, and we know how long the play took until the whistle blew. (6.3 seconds) If the clock reads 2:06, and the whistle blew 6.3 seconds after the clock started, it is impossible for the whistle to have come 2-3 seconds after the clock had stopped and the clock to read 2:01. Even if it stopped as soon as it turned to 2:01, the most it could be is 1.3 seconds. 6.3 seconds minus 5 seconds (2:06 to 2:01) = 1.3 seconds.

Whistle comes at 6.9 seconds, now that I have the game on my pc and playing it on VLC. 6.3 seconds is ur figure.


We are not talking about the players. We are talking about when the game clock operator is supposed to stop the clock. He is looking for the officials signal, not listening for a whistle. Did you not read the quote from the rule book that I posted?

How do u know he wasn't listening for the whistle and only looking for the signal?


We know the clock stopped closer to 2:00:10 (It would actually be 2:01.01 since the clock is counting backwards, but I know what you mean) by watching the next play when it immediately changes to 2:00. This means that the clock can stop after 5.9 seconds and still read 2:01. You can hear the whistle blow at 6.3 seconds. 6.3 seconds minus 5.9 seconds = 0.4 seconds. Not 2 or 3 seconds like you keep saying.

Wrong. 15:00 means the clock can be anywhere between 14:59:01-15:00:00. It doesn't mean it has between 15:00:00 to 15:00:99, obviously. Just look at any first play of any quarter. Clock doesn't tick to 14:59 until after a second. 14:59 means the clock less than 14 minutes and 59 seconds left on the clock. 2:06 means the clock is anywhere between 2:05:01 to 2:06:00. So deduct the 6.3 you claim (or the 6.1 from where the ref indicates the signal) and you have a 2 min warning. I counted 6.9 seconds till the whistle. Add in the reaction time and u have 7 full seconds. Compare that against the 5 seconds the clock ticked down and u have yourself a 2 second difference, the same difference I continued to talk about (2-3 seconds).


We absolutely are. The clock read 2:06 and we heard the whistle after 6.3 seconds. That is 4-tenths away from the clock reading 2:01. We saw the official waving his arms at least 2-tenths before that, so you are really whining over 2-tenths of a second. It is easy to tell that he had possession and was down by contact long before the whistle came, but even if you want to take it to the whistle, the clock stopped only 4-tenths of a second before the whistle blew. 4-tenths is not getting screwed like you guys keep whining about.

Read above. Im not whining. I already agreed that the Jets had their chances to win and that the bad call there wasn't the reason they lost.


No, I am not wrong, and no we don't agree. You made a critical error. 2:06 could potentially be anywhere from 2:06.01 to 2:06.99. If it was at 2:06:00, the clock would have immediately changed to 2:05 as soon as he enters the field of play on the KO return. You are trying to skip a full second.

Wrong, because 15:00 doesn't potentially mean from 15:00:01 to 15:00:99 in the NFL, although any countdown clock will disagree with it.


2:06.99 minus 6.3 seconds is 2:00.69, which is 4-tenths away from the clock reading 2:01. We know it was 2:06.99 by watching the play before the KO fumble. It was the Jets FG attempt to tie the game. The clock was at 2:11 before the attempt, and the official is giving the signal as soon as it changes to 2:06. The football actually hits the back of the net at the end of the 2:07.00 mark. So we know there should be 2:06.99 on the clock for the next play. That means 5.9 seconds can easily pass and the clock would still read 2:01. We heard the whistle after 6.3 seconds, so again, the difference is only 4-tenths of a second when we heard the whistle.

The ball crossed the goal post as soon as clock read 2:07. What took the operator to wait an entire second before hitting the stop button? The usual reaction time of looking at the refs signal or whistle.

The rest of the entire theory is just proven wrong above about clock potentially being 2:06:99.


We already know that the play was being signaled dead before we heard the whistle, so again we are actually talking about 2-tenths of a second.

No, we are still talking about much more than a second.


This is proven to be incorrect above. It is 2-tenths, and it is impossible for it to be 3 seconds.

Repetitive.


How is it easy to tell when we can not see him? How do we know he was just outside the visible area and not further away? There is nothing made up about 4-tenths. What is made up is the 2-3 seconds you keep saying. Get a stop watch and time the play for yourself. I have no faith in you coming up with the correct time, but it is 6.3 seconds to the time we actually hear the whistle. There was 2:06.99 on the clock and 5.9 of it ran off. 6.3 minus 5.9 = .04.


Repetitive, and because judging by refs signal, he was not running towards the play. He was either standing still, or moving slowly towards the new LoS (moving alongside the camera angle). An earlier signal would have shown up earlier.


It is impossible for the clock to have reached 1:59 when it started at 2:06 and we heard the whistle after 6.3 seconds. I'm not saying he had possession and was ruled down as soon as the clock turned to 2:01. I am saying that it was well in to the 2:01 second (2:01.10 counting down right before it was going to change to 2:00) when possession was determined. This shot is a 5.5 seconds:

http://imageshack.us/a/img42/8266/kickoff3e.jpg

He clearly has possession at that point and is touched down. The clock would still read 2:01 at that point. The clock operator still has another 4-tenths of a second after that shot to stop the clock and it would still read 2:01. You can't honestly tell me that if NE had stripped the ball away after the above photo, that you would not be arguing that he already had possession and was touched down. You know you would be, and I would as well because it is easy to tell.

You must have missed the replay from another angle I told u about. U can not determine if the player had control of the ball or not by looking at a still picture. The ball was moving. Clock operator determined it wasn't, way beyond the refs determined. In such instances, clock operator generally takes his time to stop the clock. Many times we see as many as 10 seconds being taken off the clock before it stops. Its common, so please do not tell me you've never seen it happen.


I have no idea what goes through a players mind. I do know the rules and what I see though. It was PI. Me and Junc agreeing that it was pass interference is meaningless. I only said that because Junc is a big Jets fan. He has no reason to say it was PI if it was not. You as a bias Jets fan do. Me and Junc and you and WV can not all be right. Obviously, you and WV are wrong. :chuckle:

So I guess u and junc have the higher authority over who is wrong and who is right. However, Im pretty sure WV is biased against the Jets to some extent, yet he agrees with me. But again, he is doesn't have the higher authority you or junc possess...for some reason.


I fully understand that point and said the same thing many times. That is not what I am debating. I am debating that the correct calls were made. I don't like to hear whining and claims of getting screwed when they are simply not true.

Not whining, and not claiming we got screwed. Not the one who created the thread...and no, I just showed how ur entire theory was flawed with the timing.

JETSJETSJETS
10-29-2012, 02:46 AM
BTW, congrats on the victory. You guys played a near perfect game all around and fully deserved the victory. I've been surprised by the Dolphins emergence this year as a team that was once considered to be a 5-6 win team.

The New Guy
10-29-2012, 10:03 AM
YOU are whining over the tenths of this and tenths of that. not me. Im claiming seconds.

Whistle comes at 6.9 seconds, now that I have the game on my pc and playing it on VLC. 6.3 seconds is ur figure.

Your claims are dead wrong, and you prove them wrong with your own post. If you start timing when he catches the ball in the end zone, it might be 6.9 seconds. The clock is not supposed to start until he enters the field of play. Even at 6.9 seconds, and the clock stopping as soon as it his 2:01, the most it can be is 1.9 seconds. Not 3 seconds. We know the clock did not stop as soon as it hit 2:01 because the clock immediately changed to 2:00 on the next play. That means the clock read something like 2:01.10.




How do u know he wasn't listening for the whistle and only looking for the signal?

It is the game clock operators job to stop the clock when the play is over. Unless he is blind, I doubt he is only listing for a whistle. A whistle is not the only signal that calls the play dead. I posted the rule several times and you have yet to post something that backs up what you are saying.





Wrong. 15:00 means the clock can be anywhere between 14:59:01-15:00:00. It doesn't mean it has between 15:00:00 to 15:00:99, obviously. Just look at any first play of any quarter. Clock doesn't tick to 14:59 until after a second. 14:59 means the clock less than 14 minutes and 59 seconds left on the clock. 2:06 means the clock is anywhere between 2:05:01 to 2:06:00. So deduct the 6.3 you claim (or the 6.1 from where the ref indicates the signal) and you have a 2 min warning. I counted 6.9 seconds till the whistle. Add in the reaction time and u have 7 full seconds. Compare that against the 5 seconds the clock ticked down and u have yourself a 2 second difference, the same difference I continued to talk about (2-3 seconds).

You could not be more wrong, and your own post proves it. 14:59.01 means that the clock is less than 1-tenth of a second away from changing to 14:58. When the clock reads 15:00.00 on the first play of a quarter, that means there is a full 10-tenths on that seconds. The tenths reset at 0, so going backwards would go like this:

15:00.00
15:00.99
15:00.98
15:00.97
15:00.96

Ect...Ect... until that 9-tenth goes to the 8-tenth, and the 8-tenth goes to the 7 ,6 5, 4 ,3 ,3 ,2 ,0 and then the clock changes to 14:59.00, then 14:59.99 and so and so on. You prove this to be true with the statement I highlighted above. You said "The clock does not tick to 14:59 until after a second. (10- tenths)

15:00.99 is a tenth of a tenth away from a full 10-tenths which would read 15:00.00. The resting zeros is what is confusing you. As soon as the clock changes to 2:06, there is a full 10-tenths that must be counted before it changes to 2:05. That means starting at 2:06 that 5.9 seconds can pass and the clock will still read 2:01.



Wrong, because 15:00 doesn't potentially mean from 15:00:01 to 15:00:99 in the NFL, although any countdown clock will disagree with it.

If this were true, then it would be impossible for a second to pass before the clock changed to 14:59, because no tenths would be counted. It would change immediately.




The ball crossed the goal post as soon as clock read 2:07. What took the operator to wait an entire second before hitting the stop button? The usual reaction time of looking at the refs signal or whistle.

The rest of the entire theory is just proven wrong above about clock potentially being 2:06:99.

It doesn't take a full second to stop the clock. It takes less than a tenth of a second. The clock is reading 2:07.10 and he can get the signal and stop the clock at 2:06.99 (which is a tenth of a tenth away from 2:06.00) If there is that long of a delay in stopping the clock at the right time, then there should also be that long of a delay in starting it at the right time which would cancel it out.




No, we are still talking about much more than a second.

No, we are not. Watch the play before the KO fumble and the play after the KO fumble. You will see that the clock just changes to 2:06 when the clock should be stopped, and changes to 2:00 immediately on the next play. Because of this, we know that we have a full 2:06. The play took 6.3 until we hear the whistle, and 5.9 seconds passed on the clock. That is a difference of 4-tenths of a second.



Repetitive, and because judging by refs signal, he was not running towards the play. He was either standing still, or moving slowly towards the new LoS (moving alongside the camera angle). An earlier signal would have shown up earlier.


You can see him taking steps towards the players in the video. We don't know how many since we don't get to see where he started from. It doesn't even matter since we can see him waving his arms at least 2-tenths before the whistle blows. It is ridiculous to whine about getting screwed if the clock operator stopped the clock 2-tenths of a second too soon.



You must have missed the replay from another angle I told u about. U can not determine if the player had control of the ball or not by looking at a still picture. The ball was moving. Clock operator determined it wasn't, way beyond the refs determined. In such instances, clock operator generally takes his time to stop the clock. Many times we see as many as 10 seconds being taken off the clock before it stops. Its common, so please do not tell me you've never seen it happen.

The pic is from the video, and you can clearly tell in the video that he had possession and was being touched down. Are you telling me that you would be arguing that it should be NE's ball if they manage to strip it away from the Jets player after that point in the picture? No, you would be saying that he is clearly down by contact with possession. That pic came at 5.5, and the whistle came at 6.3.



So I guess u and junc have the higher authority over who is wrong and who is right. However, Im pretty sure WV is biased against the Jets to some extent, yet he agrees with me. But again, he is doesn't have the higher authority you or junc possess...for some reason.

The authority is the rules of the game and the officials who enforce them. I am not an official, but I can clearly see that it was PI. I have no way to prove it to you.




Not whining, and not claiming we got screwed. Not the one who created the thread...and no, I just showed how ur entire theory was flawed with the timing.

It is your posts that have been wrong, and continue to be.



BTW, congrats on the victory. You guys played a near perfect game all around and fully deserved the victory. I've been surprised by the Dolphins emergence this year as a team that was once considered to be a 5-6 win team.

Thanks! That was a bad way for Jets to enter the bye. Things look really bad for them, but with all the mediocrity in the AFC and the schedule, you never know what can happen in the 2nd half of the season.

JETSJETSJETS
10-29-2012, 06:00 PM
Your claims are dead wrong, and you prove them wrong with your own post. If you start timing when he catches the ball in the end zone, it might be 6.9 seconds. The clock is not supposed to start until he enters the field of play. Even at 6.9 seconds, and the clock stopping as soon as it his 2:01, the most it can be is 1.9 seconds. Not 3 seconds. We know the clock did not stop as soon as it hit 2:01 because the clock immediately changed to 2:00 on the next play. That means the clock read something like 2:01.10.

2 seconds is within my 2 to 3 second claim.


It is the game clock operators job to stop the clock when the play is over. Unless he is blind, I doubt he is only listing for a whistle. A whistle is not the only signal that calls the play dead. I posted the rule several times and you have yet to post something that backs up what you are saying.

U said "He is looking for the officials signal, not listening for a whistle".


You could not be more wrong, and your own post proves it. 14:59.01 means that the clock is less than 1-tenth of a second away from changing to 14:58. When the clock reads 15:00.00 on the first play of a quarter, that means there is a full 10-tenths on that seconds. The tenths reset at 0, so going backwards would go like this:

15:00.00
15:00.99
15:00.98
15:00.97
15:00.96

Ect...Ect... until that 9-tenth goes to the 8-tenth, and the 8-tenth goes to the 7 ,6 5, 4 ,3 ,3 ,2 ,0 and then the clock changes to 14:59.00, then 14:59.99 and so and so on. You prove this to be true with the statement I highlighted above. You said "The clock does not tick to 14:59 until after a second. (10- tenths)

When the clock hits 0:00, that doesn't mean it still has anywhere from 0:00:00 to 0:00:99. It means, the most the clock can have on it is 0 seconds. Similarly, when the very first play of the quarter takes place, the clock doesn't tick down to 14:59 until after a complete second, plus reaction time. Just look at any play and it'll prove u wrong, just like on every subject you are talking about.


15:00.99 is a tenth of a tenth away from a full 10-tenths which would read 15:00.00. The resting zeros is what is confusing you. As soon as the clock changes to 2:06, there is a full 10-tenths that must be counted before it changes to 2:05. That means starting at 2:06 that 5.9 seconds can pass and the clock will still read 2:01.

Again, on the NFL clock, the clock is different from a countdown clock or the nba clock. NBA clock has tenths of seconds (or maybe even hundredths of seconds?) to show that 0:00 can be 0:00:9, almost an entire second. In the NFL, the clock only ticks to the next second (2:01 for instance) when it has 2:01 seconds OR less. 2:00:01 will read as 2:01 on the NFL clock and my theory is proven when u see the very first play of any quarter where the clock doesn't change to 14:59 until a full second after the snap.


If this were true, then it would be impossible for a second to pass before the clock changed to 14:59, because no tenths would be counted. It would change immediately.

I should, but it doesn't. just take a look.


It doesn't take a full second to stop the clock. It takes less than a tenth of a second. The clock is reading 2:07.10 and he can get the signal and stop the clock at 2:06.99 (which is a tenth of a tenth away from 2:06.00) If there is that long of a delay in stopping the clock at the right time, then there should also be that long of a delay in starting it at the right time which would cancel it out.

Wrong as proven above.


No, we are not. Watch the play before the KO fumble and the play after the KO fumble. You will see that the clock just changes to 2:06 when the clock should be stopped, and changes to 2:00 immediately on the next play. Because of this, we know that we have a full 2:06. The play took 6.3 until we hear the whistle, and 5.9 seconds passed on the clock. That is a difference of 4-tenths of a second.

2:06 means that it has 2 mins and 6 seconds OR less on the clock.


You can see him taking steps towards the players in the video. We don't know how many since we don't get to see where he started from. It doesn't even matter since we can see him waving his arms at least 2-tenths before the whistle blows. It is ridiculous to whine about getting screwed if the clock operator stopped the clock 2-tenths of a second too soon.

Again, those 2- tenths of a second according to ur reading (or more than a second according to my calculations) makes a huge difference.


The pic is from the video, and you can clearly tell in the video that he had possession and was being touched down. Are you telling me that you would be arguing that it should be NE's ball if they manage to strip it away from the Jets player after that point in the picture? No, you would be saying that he is clearly down by contact with possession. That pic came at 5.5, and the whistle came at 6.3.

I didn't say anything about the ball being stripped. U are still not looking at the following replay I've mentioned. Maybe because u don't want to. It shows the player didn't have full control of the ball when he was touched...and the clock operator can not determine all by himself to stop the clock before getting the signal from the ref. Where the clock operator does have the right to stop the clock would be on an incomplete pass where he doesn't need a refs signal to determine the play is dead, not on a fumble recovery where there is a pile. Common sense. Clock operator has rules to follow, and they are not very complicated.


The authority is the rules of the game and the officials who enforce them. I am not an official, but I can clearly see that it was PI. I have no way to prove it to you.

Apparently, the official standing couple of steps away from the play didn't think it was PI, but you, who hardly had a good angle of the play, determines that it was a clear PI. You don't have a way to prove it to me because there is NO evidence of it.


It is your posts that have been wrong, and continue to be.

My posts are wrong according to you, not according to the nfl time clock.


Thanks! That was a bad way for Jets to enter the bye. Things look really bad for them, but with all the mediocrity in the AFC and the schedule, you never know what can happen in the 2nd half of the season.

When Revis went down, so did my hopes for the season. He was a big part of how Jets play D. They played well against the Pats but Jets needed everything to go in their favor to win many games. Then Holmes went down. Keller had been out. Hill was out with hammy too. Kerley wasn't 100%. Shonn got bruised up. Bilal Powell got knocked out. McKnight, Schillen, Bart Scott. The list is long with the injuries on the Jets side. The OL is playing terrible and so are the defensive front 7. And then a lot of boneheaded plays by the CS. I still think Jets can win 9 games, but thats only because its a weak schedule for our division this year. Sanchez played very good against the Pats but threw some bad passes under pressure a 9 year old could complete. When there's no pressure, Sanchez plays well. Now its up to the CS to prove their worth for the 2nd half to keep their jobs.

Nublar7
10-29-2012, 06:31 PM
Jets suck

PhinsPhan11
10-29-2012, 06:58 PM
Jets suck
They don't suck, they ****ing blow.

The New Guy
10-29-2012, 09:37 PM
When the clock hits 0:00, that doesn't mean it still has anywhere from 0:00:00 to 0:00:99. It means, the most the clock can have on it is 0 seconds. Similarly, when the very first play of the quarter takes place, the clock doesn't tick down to 14:59 until after a complete second, plus reaction time. Just look at any play and it'll prove u wrong, just like on every subject you are talking about.

Of course 0:00.00 has nothing left. It is zero and the tenths have already ran off! The NFL clock does not show the tenths being counted off, so the clock will read 0:01 until all tenths are counted. It doesn't matter if there is really 0:00.99, or 0:00.01, the clock will read 0:01. When the clock hits 0:00.00 that last second was already counted off by tenths. It went from:

0:01.00
0:00.90
0:00.80
0:00.70
0:00.60
0:00.50
0:00.40
0:00.30
0:00.20
0:00.10
0:00:00

I did not write it out correctly before, but all 10-tenths of every second must be counted before they will change. That is why it takes a complete second (10-tenths) for the clock to go from 15:00 to 14:59 on the first play of any quarter. It went from:

15:00.00
14:59.90
14:59.80
14:59.70
14:59.60
14:59.50
14:59.40
14:59.30
14:59.20
14:59.10
14:59.00 (this is when we get to see it change to 14:59)

If it didn't count down the tenths that way, the clock would immediately change from 15:00 to 14:59 as soon as it was started at the beginning of each quarter. You know it doesn't since you agree that it takes a full second (10-tenths) before it changes. Do you finally understand? It is the same from 2:06 to 2:05.

We already know all 10-tenths should be counted on the 2:06 second. We know this because the clock stopped as soon as it changed from 2:07 to 2:06 when the FG attempt from the Jets was over. It was over right at the end of 2:07 which would read 2:07.10 ,with the tenths included, and it changed from 2:07.10 to 2:06.00 when the clock was stopped.

If the clock just changed to 2:06, it reads 2:06.00 with the full 10- tenths. Don't get confused with the re-setting zeros, 2:06.00 is not going to immediately change to 2:05 if it just changed to 2:06. It is a tenth of a tenth away from counting down to 2:05.99, 1-tenth away from changing to 2:05.90, 2-tenths away from 2:05.80 and so on and so on like the examples above. That is why it takes a full second for 15:00 to change to 14:59, and a full second to change from 2:06 to 2:05. All 10 tenths must be counted.

This means from 2:06 to 2:01, 5.9 seconds can pass and the clock will still read 2:01. If the clock just changed to 2:06 and 5.9 seconds passed on the clock, the clock would be about to change to 2:00 at that point since it is at 2:00.10 (or less) We know this is true since the clock did immediately change to 2:00 on the next play. The play before and the play after proves that 5.9 seconds passed on the clock. 6.3 seconds minus 5.9 seconds = 4- tenths of a second.




Again, on the NFL clock, the clock is different from a countdown clock or the nba clock. NBA clock has tenths of seconds (or maybe even hundredths of seconds?) to show that 0:00 can be 0:00:9, almost an entire second. In the NFL, the clock only ticks to the next second (2:01 for instance) when it has 2:01 seconds OR less. 2:00:01 will read as 2:01 on the NFL clock and my theory is proven when u see the very first play of any quarter where the clock doesn't change to 14:59 until a full second after the snap.

You continue to prove yourself wrong. We are not dealing with theories. Time is time and is measured the same way whether you see it or not. Just because you can't see the tenths counting down doesn't mean they aren't being counted.
0:01 will be on an NFL clock until all 10-tenths are counted. You could start and stop the clock a half second later, and it will still read 0:01 (not 0:00.50), but you will only have a half second left when the clock is started again.

We can't see the tenths being counted off on an NFL clock, but you can get a really good idea of where they are at by watching the play before and the play after as mentioned above. The reason the clock immediately goes from 2:01 to 2:00 (on the Jets next play after the KO fumble) is because 9-tenths already ran off it before it was stopped on the last play. We can't see the tenths, but if we could it would be 2:00.10 which is still 2:01. If you add the 9-tenths that ran off to the 5 seconds that already ran off (2:06 to 2:01), you get 5.9 seconds. Again, 6.3 seconds minus 5.9 seconds = 4-tenths. Not 2 to 3 seconds.







2:06 means that it has 2 mins and 6 seconds OR less on the clock.

Agreed! All 10-tenths of that 6th second MUST BE counted before it will change to 2:05! You keep trying to skip the 10-tenths of the 6th second. 2:06 doesn't change to 2:05 until 1 second has passed.




Again, those 2- tenths of a second according to ur reading (or more than a second according to my calculations) makes a huge difference.

What calculations? All you have done is post nonsense that is proven to be false.




I didn't say anything about the ball being stripped. U are still not looking at the following replay I've mentioned. Maybe because u don't want to. It shows the player didn't have full control of the ball when he was touched...and the clock operator can not determine all by himself to stop the clock before getting the signal from the ref. Where the clock operator does have the right to stop the clock would be on an incomplete pass where he doesn't need a refs signal to determine the play is dead, not on a fumble recovery where there is a pile. Common sense. Clock operator has rules to follow, and they are not very complicated.

I never said he had possession at the very first moment he was touched. I said he had possession at least 4-tenths of a second before the whistle blew. You can clearly see that in the picture, and the picture came after 5.5 seconds when the clock would still read 2:01. Post the video of the angel you are talking about, if you wish. I don't need it though because I already have a video and a picture that shows clear possession and contact after 5.5 seconds, which is well within the 5.9 seconds that can pass before the clock would change to 2:00.




Apparently, the official standing couple of steps away from the play didn't think it was PI, but you, who hardly had a good angle of the play, determines that it was a clear PI. You don't have a way to prove it to me because there is NO evidence of it.

The evidence is on the tape:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=pT_S6fuCM7c

You thought Revis did not pass interfere with Marshall last year when Revis nearly ripped his jersey off, and then you thought Jammer did interfere with Holmes when he didn't even touch him before the ball hit Holmes in the hand. You have proven yourself to be very bias in your judgement of what PI is.

JETSJETSJETS
10-30-2012, 03:49 AM
Of course 0:00.00 has nothing left. It is zero and the tenths have already ran off! The NFL clock does not show the tenths being counted off, so the clock will read 0:01 until all tenths are counted. It doesn't matter if there is really 0:00.99, or 0:00.01, the clock will read 0:01. When the clock hits 0:00.00 that last second was already counted off by tenths. It went from:

0:01.00
0:00.90
0:00.80
0:00.70
0:00.60
0:00.50
0:00.40
0:00.30
0:00.20
0:00.10
0:00:00

I did not write it out correctly before, but all 10-tenths of every second must be counted before they will change. That is why it takes a complete second (10-tenths) for the clock to go from 15:00 to 14:59 on the first play of any quarter. It went from:

15:00.00
14:59.90
14:59.80
14:59.70
14:59.60
14:59.50
14:59.40
14:59.30
14:59.20
14:59.10
14:59.00 (this is when we get to see it change to 14:59)

If it didn't count down the tenths that way, the clock would immediately change from 15:00 to 14:59 as soon as it was started at the beginning of each quarter. You know it doesn't since you agree that it takes a full second (10-tenths) before it changes. Do you finally understand? It is the same from 2:06 to 2:05.

We already know all 10-tenths should be counted on the 2:06 second. We know this because the clock stopped as soon as it changed from 2:07 to 2:06 when the FG attempt from the Jets was over. It was over right at the end of 2:07 which would read 2:07.10 ,with the tenths included, and it changed from 2:07.10 to 2:06.00 when the clock was stopped.

If the clock just changed to 2:06, it reads 2:06.00 with the full 10- tenths. Don't get confused with the re-setting zeros, 2:06.00 is not going to immediately change to 2:05 if it just changed to 2:06. It is a tenth of a tenth away from counting down to 2:05.99, 1-tenth away from changing to 2:05.90, 2-tenths away from 2:05.80 and so on and so on like the examples above. That is why it takes a full second for 15:00 to change to 14:59, and a full second to change from 2:06 to 2:05. All 10 tenths must be counted.

I am not getting confused, but you finally get the point after being wrong earlier. To quote you below:

"No, I am not wrong, and no we don't agree. You made a critical error. 2:06 could potentially be anywhere from 2:06.01 to 2:06.99. If it was at 2:06:00, the clock would have immediately changed to 2:05 as soon as he enters the field of play on the KO return. You are trying to skip a full second."

2:06 could potentially mean between 2:06:00 and 2:05:01.


This means from 2:06 to 2:01, 5.9 seconds can pass and the clock will still read 2:01. If the clock just changed to 2:06 and 5.9 seconds passed on the clock, the clock would be about to change to 2:00 at that point since it is at 2:00.10 (or less) We know this is true since the clock did immediately change to 2:00 on the next play. The play before and the play after proves that 5.9 seconds passed on the clock. 6.3 seconds minus 5.9 seconds = 4- tenths of a second.

The play before proves nothing because you don't know exactly when the operator stopped the clock after the FG and u don't know exactly when the operator started the clock on the kickoff return. These are all assumptions. What we do know is that the operator was quick to stop the clock before it was even signaled dead on a not-so-clear fumble recovery.


You continue to prove yourself wrong. We are not dealing with theories. Time is time and is measured the same way whether you see it or not. Just because you can't see the tenths counting down doesn't mean they aren't being counted.
0:01 will be on an NFL clock until all 10-tenths are counted. You could start and stop the clock a half second later, and it will still read 0:01 (not 0:00.50), but you will only have a half second left when the clock is started again.


Sorry, but ur post I quoted in italics above shows how I continue to be correct all along, but u just changed ur theory. And no, it is a theory, or a concept. NFL clock doesn't follow the same concept as other clocks, such as an NBA clock. If we 'hide' the tenths of seconds on NBA clock, 0:00 could mean as much as almost an entire second. In the NFL, 0:00 means end of time (quarter, half, game, play clock etc).


We can't see the tenths being counted off on an NFL clock, but you can get a really good idea of where they are at by watching the play before and the play after as mentioned above. The reason the clock immediately goes from 2:01 to 2:00 (on the Jets next play after the KO fumble) is because 9-tenths already ran off it before it was stopped on the last play. We can't see the tenths, but if we could it would be 2:00.10 which is still 2:01. If you add the 9-tenths that ran off to the 5 seconds that already ran off (2:06 to 2:01), you get 5.9 seconds. Again, 6.3 seconds minus 5.9 seconds = 4-tenths. Not 2 to 3 seconds.

The play took 6.9 seconds per my count. The clock dropped to 2:05 when the returner was around 5 yard line. From the time returner enters the field of play, to the time the clock dropped to 2:05 is about .8 seconds (I slowed it down in VLC, since it has tenths of seconds for the clip timing). Minus the operators reaction time and the clock probably read 2:05:70 before the play started.


Agreed! All 10-tenths of that 6th second MUST BE counted before it will change to 2:05! You keep trying to skip the 10-tenths of the 6th second. 2:06 doesn't change to 2:05 until 1 second has passed.

Not sure what made u think that way. I never said anything about 2:06 changing to 2:05 immediately.


The evidence is on the tape:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=pT_S6fuCM7c

You thought Revis did not pass interfere with Marshall last year when Revis nearly ripped his jersey off, and then you thought Jammer did interfere with Holmes when he didn't even touch him before the ball hit Holmes in the hand. You have proven yourself to be very bias in your judgement of what PI is.

Marshall stumbled into Revis. Not sure which play you are referring to with Jammer and Holmes PI call (please refresh me?). Hernandez puts both his hands on Kyle to make his stop. One of his hands are in Kyles face. Look closely. The ball comes a tad bit early and further away than Hernandez expected and could not turn in time to make the catch with both hands. The ref is 5 yards away from all this and agrees with me.

ArmyFin7
10-30-2012, 07:34 AM
unimportant argument. Just fight with the Bills for scraps.

The New Guy
10-30-2012, 10:02 AM
I am not getting confused, but you finally get the point after being wrong earlier. To quote you below:

"No, I am not wrong, and no we don't agree. You made a critical error. 2:06 could potentially be anywhere from 2:06.01 to 2:06.99. If it was at 2:06:00, the clock would have immediately changed to 2:05 as soon as he enters the field of play on the KO return. You are trying to skip a full second."

2:06 could potentially mean between 2:06:00 and 2:05:01.

I am trying to make you understand that all 10-tenths need to be counted. When I write out 2:06.01 to 2:06.99, I am not trying to imply that that the clock is a tenth of a tenth away from 2:07. I am trying to show you all 10-tenths of the 2:06 need to be counted before it will change to 2:05 and how it looks seeing it on the NFL game clock. If you could see the tenths being counted off, it would look like I wrote it in my last post.




The play before proves nothing because you don't know exactly when the operator stopped the clock after the FG and u don't know exactly when the operator started the clock on the kickoff return. These are all assumptions. What we do know is that the operator was quick to stop the clock before it was even signaled dead on a not-so-clear fumble recovery.

If we don't know exactly when the operator stopped the clock after the FG, and don't know exactly when the operator started the clock on the kickoff return, then how in the world do you know that the operator stopped the clock early when it hit 2:01 before the play was signaled dead? You can't see the tenths being ran off, so there is a full second that the clock looks like it is not moving, but really could be.

The clock will read 2:01 for a full second, and could be stopped, or could be going:

2:00.9 (Reading 2:01 since it is the tenths of the 2:01 that is being counted down)
2:00.8 (Reading 2:01)
2:00.7 (Reading 2:01)
2:00.6 (Reading 2:01)
2:00.5 (Reading 2:01)
2:00.4 (Reading 2:01)
2:00.3 (Reading 2:01)
2:00.2 (Reading 2:01)
2:00.1 (Reading 2:01)

We can know when it was stopped by watching the next play. The next play proves that the clock did not stop early in 2:01 since it took 1-tenth of a second to change to 2:00 on the next play. That means 9-tenths ran off of 2:01 before the clock was stopped.

We know exactly when he should have stopped the clock before that play as well. The ball hits the back of the net and the clock still read 2:07. It was about to change to 2:06, and with the signal from the official, he should have stopped it at the very beginning of 2:06.

We should have the full 10-tenths of that 2:06 second before it changes to 2:05, and the full 10-tenths of the 2:05 Before it changes to 2:04 and the full 10-tenths of 2:04 before it changes to 2:03, and the full 10-tenths of 2:03 before it changes to 2:02, and the full 10-tenths of 2:02 before it changes to 2:01. Count the seconds in bold above and you get 5 seconds to 2:01 (2:06 to 2:01) What you don't seem to get is that another 10-tenths have to pass before it will change from 2:01 to 2:00. 9-tenths can pass and the clock will still read 2:01.

Get it? 5.9 seconds can pass with the clock being started at 2:06 and still rightfully be stopped after 5.9 seconds and read 2:01.




Sorry, but ur post I quoted in italics above shows how I continue to be correct all along, but u just changed ur theory. And no, it is a theory, or a concept. NFL clock doesn't follow the same concept as other clocks, such as an NBA clock. If we 'hide' the tenths of seconds on NBA clock, 0:00 could mean as much as almost an entire second. In the NFL, 0:00 means end of time (quarter, half, game, play clock etc).

You said the clock stopped 2-3 seconds before the whistle blew, and you continue to be wrong. I have said all along that it is 4-tenths, and that all 10-tenths of each second need to be counted before they will change. You can't seem to understand that, so I tried to write it out in a way that you could, but I failed. Time is not a theory, it is a fact. All clocks go by tenths of a second, and tenths of tenths. It doesn't matter if you can see them or not. 0.00 means end of time, but the NFL clock will never show 0:00.5 (as in half a second left), it will show 0:01 until it hits zero, even if there is a full second left or just a tenth of a second left.


We know where the clock should be based on the play before and the play after. The clock should stop at the very beginning of 2:06 (you claim only 8-tenths passed on the next play before the clock changed to 2:05, but close enough) and you know that the clock immediately changes (1-tenth) to 2:00 on the Jets first play after the KO fumble. That proves 5.9 seconds passed on the clock during the KO fumble play. It boggles my mind that you can not understand that. You say the play lasted 6.9 until the whistle blew, and I say 6.3. Even at 6.9, it is only a 1 second difference, not 2 or 3.





Not sure what made u think that way. I never said anything about 2:06 changing to 2:05 immediately.

You claim that the whistle came 2 to 3 seconds after the clock stopped, and the clock started at 2:06 and stopped at 2:01. The play lasted 6.3 seconds and 5.9 can run off the clock before it will read 2:00. The clock would have to immediately change from 2:06 to 2:05 for only 4 seconds of time to pass which is what you need to be within your 2 to 3 second figure. 6.3 seconds minus 4 seconds = 2.3 seconds. Since we know the clock ran all of that 2:06 sec off and we know it nearly ran all of the 2:01 ( 9-tenths ran off it), we know that 5.9 seconds passed. Since 5.9 seconds passed, it is impossible for 2 to 3 seconds to have gone by after the clock stopped since we hear the whistle at 6.3, or 6.9 seconds according to you.

Bottom line is, what you have been saying has been wrong from the beginning. It is tenths of a second difference from when the clock stopped and when we heard the whistle blow and not 2 to 3 seconds. I don't even care about the whistle blowing though since we saw him waving his arms before the whistle blew. Just look at the picture that came at 5.5 seconds. It is clear that he had possession and was down by contact 5.5 seconds into the play. 5.9 seconds can pass before the clock would change to 2:00, so the clock should have rightfully stopped at 2:01. There is no conspiracy and the Jets didn' get screwed on the play.

JETSJETSJETS
10-30-2012, 10:01 PM
I am trying to make you understand that all 10-tenths need to be counted. When I write out 2:06.01 to 2:06.99, I am not trying to imply that that the clock is a tenth of a tenth away from 2:07. I am trying to show you all 10-tenths of the 2:06 need to be counted before it will change to 2:05 and how it looks seeing it on the NFL game clock. If you could see the tenths being counted off, it would look like I wrote it in my last post.

I already know how ten tenths of a second work. You on the other hand claimed when clock reads 2:06, it potentially can be between 2:06:01 and 2:06:99, when its not.


If we don't know exactly when the operator stopped the clock after the FG, and don't know exactly when the operator started the clock on the kickoff return, then how in the world do you know that the operator stopped the clock early when it hit 2:01 before the play was signaled dead? You can't see the tenths being ran off, so there is a full second that the clock looks like it is not moving, but really could be.

Because its obvious. When the signal came in, the clock was already stopped cuz it stopped on 2:01 and the signal came more than 2 seconds after the clock ticked to 2:01.


The clock will read 2:01 for a full second, and could be stopped, or could be going:

2:00.9 (Reading 2:01 since it is the tenths of the 2:01 that is being counted down)
2:00.8 (Reading 2:01)
2:00.7 (Reading 2:01)
2:00.6 (Reading 2:01)
2:00.5 (Reading 2:01)
2:00.4 (Reading 2:01)
2:00.3 (Reading 2:01)
2:00.2 (Reading 2:01)
2:00.1 (Reading 2:01)


You continue posting this crap as if Im a child and have no idea how the clock works...where as I showed you how u were wrong with the sentence I quoted u saying "No, I am not wrong, and no we don't agree. You made a critical error. 2:06 could potentially be anywhere from 2:06.01 to 2:06.99."


We can know when it was stopped by watching the next play. The next play proves that the clock did not stop early in 2:01 since it took 1-tenth of a second to change to 2:00 on the next play. That means 9-tenths ran off of 2:01 before the clock was stopped.

I never argued it stopped as soon as the clock ticked to 2:01. Never said that but u continue to repeat yourself as if it is what I've been thinking all along.


We know exactly when he should have stopped the clock before that play as well. The ball hits the back of the net and the clock still read 2:07. It was about to change to 2:06, and with the signal from the official, he should have stopped it at the very beginning of 2:06.

We don't when exactly the clock stopped. It is very normal for the clock to tick an extra second before the clock operator stops it. Very normal and common. What we do know is that the clock ticked to 2:05 after .8 seconds of the player coming out of the EZ, which means the clock has to have read around 2:05:70 (reaction time of one tenth of a second). You claiming the clock most likely read 2:00:10 is reasonable and most likely true and I didn't argue with that. The difference between 2:05:70 and 2:00:10 is 5.6 seconds. McCourty takes the ball at the goal line and immediately runs with it. Clock starts (or should start) after about one tenth of a second of collecting the ball. From that time, to the refs signal, it took 6.8 seconds (6.9 to the refs whistle. I slowed down the video to 1/4th of the speed and timed it to get a far accurate reading).


We should have the full 10-tenths of that 2:06 second before it changes to 2:05, and the full 10-tenths of the 2:05 Before it changes to 2:04 and the full 10-tenths of 2:04 before it changes to 2:03, and the full 10-tenths of 2:03 before it changes to 2:02, and the full 10-tenths of 2:02 before it changes to 2:01. Count the seconds in bold above and you get 5 seconds to 2:01 (2:06 to 2:01) What you don't seem to get is that another 10-tenths have to pass before it will change from 2:01 to 2:00. 9-tenths can pass and the clock will still read 2:01.

Too excessive don't u think? Clock read around 2:05:07 at the kickoff and I've already explained why.


Get it? 5.9 seconds can pass with the clock being started at 2:06 and still rightfully be stopped after 5.9 seconds and read 2:01.

5.7 seconds.


You said the clock stopped 2-3 seconds before the whistle blew, and you continue to be wrong. I have said all along that it is 4-tenths, and that all 10-tenths of each second need to be counted before they will change. You can't seem to understand that, so I tried to write it out in a way that you could, but I failed. Time is not a theory, it is a fact. All clocks go by tenths of a second, and tenths of tenths. It doesn't matter if you can see them or not. 0.00 means end of time, but the NFL clock will never show 0:00.5 (as in half a second left), it will show 0:01 until it hits zero, even if there is a full second left or just a tenth of a second left.

I claimed 2-3 seconds before I looked at the following play as u mentioned. The clock stopped 1.2 seconds before the it was supposed to. (I said 2-3 seconds before you pointed out that the clock did not stop as soon as it turned to 2:01 by looking at the next play and I agreed with that, not that I claimed any different).


We know where the clock should be based on the play before and the play after. The clock should stop at the very beginning of 2:06 (you claim only 8-tenths passed on the next play before the clock changed to 2:05, but close enough) and you know that the clock immediately changes (1-tenth) to 2:00 on the Jets first play after the KO fumble. That proves 5.9 seconds passed on the clock during the KO fumble play. It boggles my mind that you can not understand that. You say the play lasted 6.9 until the whistle blew, and I say 6.3. Even at 6.9, it is only a 1 second difference, not 2 or 3.

I claimed the that the clock reads around 2:05:70 at kickoff. From there to 2:05:1 (where the clocked stopped), its only 5.6 seconds not 5.9 seconds. How is ur math so weak? Even at 6.3 seconds, the clock operator stopped the clock more than half a second before the he got any signal from the refs.


Bottom line is, what you have been saying has been wrong from the beginning. It is tenths of a second difference from when the clock stopped and when we heard the whistle blow and not 2 to 3 seconds. I don't even care about the whistle blowing though since we saw him waving his arms before the whistle blew. Just look at the picture that came at 5.5 seconds. It is clear that he had possession and was down by contact 5.5 seconds into the play. 5.9 seconds can pass before the clock would change to 2:00, so the clock should have rightfully stopped at 2:01. There is no conspiracy and the Jets didn' get screwed on the play.

Again, the player maybe have been touched at 5.5 (per ur calculations) but the clock can not stop until the ref determines that clear possession was established. His signal comes in at 6.8-6.9 seconds. And again, possession is never clear on a picture since u don't know if the ball was still, or moving. Thats why I agree with the refs whistle, which came when the clock should have read 1:59 (2:05:7 minus 6.9 seconds = 1:58:8). Difference is a time out. I may be biased, but I never brought up the timeout issue, a Dolfan did.

WVDolphan
10-31-2012, 08:45 AM
:lol: The Jests are finished.

nyjunc
10-31-2012, 08:59 AM
you know what's funny is the Giants are whining about a second that didn't go off the clock yet Witten caught a pass wnet OOb at 7 secs and the clock continued to 6 unlike our play where we recovered the fumble at 2:01 and the clock froze.

The New Guy
10-31-2012, 09:08 PM
I already know how ten tenths of a second work. You on the other hand claimed when clock reads 2:06, it potentially can be between 2:06:01 and 2:06:99, when its not.

Apparently you didn't, or you would have known your claim of 2 to 3 seconds was impossible. I wrote out the tenths in front (2:06.99) in an effort to try to get you to understand that all tenths need to be counted. I never implied that 2:07 should be on the clock (which is how 2:06.1 to 2:06.99 would show up on the clock) It is written out incorrectly, but nothing changes if you count out the tenths in front if you count the second down (meaning 2:06.99 changes to 2:05 after 0:00.99 seconds) or if you count them out the proper way (2:05.99 changes to 2:05 in 0:00.99 seconds) You said:



Let me prove it to you in ur words. If the play took 6.3 seconds then from 2:06:00 minus 6:3 seconds is 1:59:70.

I have said 4-tenths from the beginning, and 159:70 is 4-tenths away from 2:00.10 which will read 2:01 on the NFL clock. You kept saying 2 to 3 seconds which means you were not including all the tenths that ran off. This is the first post that you now get it and have change your 2-3 second difference to 1 second. You are still wrong, but I am glad we are finally getting closer.



I never argued it stopped as soon as the clock ticked to 2:01. Never said that but u continue to repeat yourself as if it is what I've been thinking all along.

That is exactly what you have arguing because there is no other way to come up with a 2 to 3 seconds difference. If you really thought differently, you would have known that a 2 to 3 second difference would be impossible like I have been telling you the whole time.




We don't when exactly the clock stopped. It is very normal for the clock to tick an extra second before the clock operator stops it. Very normal and common. What we do know is that the clock ticked to 2:05 after .8 seconds of the player coming out of the EZ, which means the clock has to have read around 2:05:70 (reaction time of one tenth of a second). You claiming the clock most likely read 2:00:10 is reasonable and most likely true and I didn't argue with that. The difference between 2:05:70 and 2:00:10 is 5.6 seconds. McCourty takes the ball at the goal line and immediately runs with it. Clock starts (or should start) after about one tenth of a second of collecting the ball. From that time, to the refs signal, it took 6.8 seconds (6.9 to the refs whistle. I slowed down the video to 1/4th of the speed and timed it to get a far accurate reading).

We know when it should have been stopped, and know that it got stopped within tenths of when it should have been. You can watch the Jets FG attempt before the KO fumble and know that there should be a full 10-tenths on the 2:06. Trying to figure out the reaction time is silly. I could say well maybe the operators reaction time was longer than it should have been on the FG stoppage, and maybe he started it too early on the KO return. Who cares? We know when it should have stopped on the last play and when it should have started on the next play. Based on the play before, there should be a full 10-tenths on the 2:06, which means that we have 5.9 seconds that can pass between 2:06.00 and 2:00.1. We know that is accurate based on the play before and the play after.

I don't have any faith that you started timing it at the right time, and stopped it at the right time. From the time he entered the field of play to the time the whistle came is 6.3 seconds, not 6.9. You claiming that there is only 1-tenth of a second difference between the official waving his arms and the whistle blowing is ridiculous, unless he is Flash Gordon. I would like to see what a waving arm, being raised from the hip,towards the sky in 1-tenth of a second, looks like.





Too excessive don't u think? Clock read around 2:05:07 at the kickoff and I've already explained why.

You are the one whining about tenths of a second, not me. Maybe it did read 2:05.70, and the reaction time on the next play was 1-tenth which account for 8-tenths being ran off before the clock changed. Maybe it read 2:05.20 and the clock operators reaction time was 6-tenths which would account for the 8-tenths that you see. None of that matters to me. What matters is what it should be, and we know what it should be based on the play before and after.




I claimed 2-3 seconds before I looked at the following play as u mentioned. The clock stopped 1.2 seconds before the it was supposed to. (I said 2-3 seconds before you pointed out that the clock did not stop as soon as it turned to 2:01 by looking at the next play and I agreed with that, not that I claimed any different).

You have claimed 2 to 3 seconds this whole time. The clock read 2:06 when it started and stopped at 2:01. Do the math. Even with the whistle coming as far as 6.9 seconds and the clock stopping as soon as it hits 2:01, you still can't get a 2 to 3 seconds. This is the first post that you get it and have changed your tune.




I claimed the that the clock reads around 2:05:70 at kickoff. From there to 2:05:1 (where the clocked stopped), its only 5.6 seconds not 5.9 seconds. How is ur math so weak? Even at 6.3 seconds, the clock operator stopped the clock more than half a second before the he got any signal from the refs.

That is your claim, not mine. My math is based on 2:06.00 which is what should be on the clock. It is 5.9 seconds that passed, and 6.3 when the whistle blew. 4-tenths which is what I have been telling you since the beginning.

On top of that, 6.3 is when the whistle blew, not when the play was being signaled dead. That could have come as early as 5.5, so even according to your calculations, the clock operator still would have had 1-tenth to stop the clock at 2:01.






Again, the player maybe have been touched at 5.5 (per ur calculations) but the clock can not stop until the ref determines that clear possession was established. His signal comes in at 6.8-6.9 seconds. And again, possession is never clear on a picture since u don't know if the ball was still, or moving. Thats why I agree with the refs whistle, which came when the clock should have read 1:59 (2:05:7 minus 6.9 seconds = 1:58:8). Difference is a time out. I may be biased, but I never brought up the timeout issue, a Dolfan did.

No, 5.5 is when he clearly has possession and was down by contact. The Jets player recovered the the ball and was first touched by a NE player at 4.8 seconds. You claim the whistle came at 6.9, and it actually came at 6.3. Anyone can examine the video and determine who is right. We know the play was being signaled dead before the whistle blew. Based on the recovery on the video, the official could have signaled it as early as 5.5. We can't see him, so we can't know for sure if he was, but it certainly would have been reasonable for him to do so. The NFL looked into this and they have a lot more video angels to see when the signal came. The NFL said there was no foul play. I don't take the NFL's word alone, but examining the play myself, I agree.




you know what's funny is the Giants are whining about a second that didn't go off the clock yet Witten caught a pass wnet OOb at 7 secs and the clock continued to 6 unlike our play where we recovered the fumble at 2:01 and the clock froze.

The whining Giants players and fans are wrong. There should have been 1 second left on the clock in the Giants game. I guess whining Giants fans are the same as whining Jets fans. Wrong! :chuckle: You would know the clock didn't freeze at 2:01 if you watched the following play. The clock immediately changed to 2:00 meaning that 9-tenths ran off of 2:01.

On a side note; good to see you on the board. Hope you made it through Sandy without any major damage.

MR NFLFAN
10-31-2012, 09:24 PM
you know what's funny is the Giants are whining about a second that didn't go off the clock yet Witten caught a pass wnet OOb at 7 secs and the clock continued to 6 unlike our play where we recovered the fumble at 2:01 and the clock froze.

The clock needed lubrication and thats why it froze. The grounds keepers have since applied some oil to
old big ben and shes running fine now. Problem solved!

nyjunc
11-01-2012, 08:24 AM
The whining Giants players and fans are wrong. There should have been 1 second left on the clock in the Giants game. I guess whining Giants fans are the same as whining Jets fans. Wrong! :chuckle: You would know the clock didn't freeze at 2:01 if you watched the following play. The clock immediately changed to 2:00 meaning that 9-tenths ran off of 2:01.

On a side note; good to see you on the board. Hope you made it through Sandy without any major damage.

I've seen the play a million times and I have never seen a clock stop faster than on that play. Again, in the Giant game Witten went OOB at 7 secs clearly but the clock went to 6 secs after he was out, we jump on the ball at 2:01 roll over and the clock stops at 2:01.

The New Guy
11-01-2012, 11:39 AM
I've seen the play a million times and I have never seen a clock stop faster than on that play. Again, in the Giant game Witten went OOB at 7 secs clearly but the clock went to 6 secs after he was out, we jump on the ball at 2:01 roll over and the clock stops at 2:01.

The clock should not have gone to 0:06 since Witten was out of bounds after the catch at 0:07. The Giant fans that are whining that too much time passed are wrong. Just because an extra second ran off (that should not have) in the Giants game, does not mean that an extra second should run off (that should not) in the Jets game. The Jets jump on the ball at the end of 2:02, and the clock stopped at the very end of 2:01. (2:01.1) A full second passed after the Jets touched the ball when the clock was actually stopped.

nyjunc
11-01-2012, 11:51 AM
The clock should not have gone to 0:06 since Witten was out of bounds after the catch at 0:07. The Giant fans that are whining that too much time passed are wrong. Just because an extra second ran off (that should not have) in the Giants game, does not mean that an extra second should run off (that should not) in the Jets game. The Jets jump on the ball at the end of 2:02, and the clock stopped at the very end of 2:01. (2:01.1) A full second passed after the Jets touched the ball when the clock was actually stopped.

an extra second always runs off, sometimes more than 1. It's the lag btw the whistle blowing and the human pressing the stop button. The jets jumped on the ball at 2:01 and rolled over and miraculously it stopped the moment we touched the ball. The fastest clock stoppage in NFL history.

FinfanInBuffalo
11-01-2012, 12:11 PM
an extra second always runs off, sometimes more than 1. It's the lag btw the whistle blowing and the human pressing the stop button. The jets jumped on the ball at 2:01 and rolled over and miraculously it stopped the moment we touched the ball. The fastest clock stoppage in NFL history.

Clearly you've reviewed every clock stoppage in NFL history....

nyjunc
11-01-2012, 01:04 PM
Clearly you've reviewed every clock stoppage in NFL history....

show me an example of a quicker clock stoppage? heck when NE won their first SB I think 4 seconds ran off the clock after the FG went through.

FinfanInBuffalo
11-01-2012, 02:01 PM
show me an example of a quicker clock stoppage? heck when NE won their first SB I think 4 seconds ran off the clock after the FG went through.

?? You're the one who made the ridiculous claim. Review every clock stoppage in the history of the NFL and get back to me.

nyjunc
11-01-2012, 02:03 PM
?? You're the one who made the ridiculous claim. Review every clock stoppage in the history of the NFL and get back to me.

find me one where the clock stops the second a player touches a ball to recover a fumble. You know the clock stopped too quickly but again your hatred of my team clouds your judgement. It's sad adults act like this.

FinfanInBuffalo
11-01-2012, 04:02 PM
find me one where the clock stops the second a player touches a ball to recover a fumble. You know the clock stopped too quickly but again your hatred of my team clouds your judgement. It's sad adults act like this.

Sorry, but I don't agree. Did the Jets file a complaint? Sure seems like they would if it were a historic event like you claim......

nyjunc
11-01-2012, 04:04 PM
Sorry, but I don't agree. Did the Jets file a complaint? Sure seems like they would if it were a historic event like you claim......

what would a complaint do? it was obvious to anyone watching they got screwed by the clock. AGAIN, they still should have won. NE took advantage like good teams do but that extra second was huge as it meant playing w/ 1 TO vs. zero TOs on that game tying drive.

The New Guy
11-01-2012, 04:28 PM
what would a complaint do? it was obvious to anyone watching they got screwed by the clock. AGAIN, they still should have won. NE took advantage like good teams do but that extra second was huge as it meant playing w/ 1 TO vs. zero TOs on that game tying drive.

It may have looked that way since you can't see the tenths that continued to run off, but we know the clock continued to run by watching the next play.
It changed to 2:00 within 1-tenth of a second on the next play which means that 9-tenths ran off of 2:01. The Jets player first touched the ball at the end of 2:02:


http://imageshack.us/a/img685/3800/kickoff4.jpg

That leaves a full second to determine possession and stop the clock. Do extra seconds run off the clock sometimes when they should not? Probably, but that doesn't mean they should and that we should expect them to all of the time. You see PI that does not get called all the time, but that doesn't mean you get screwed when you do commit PI and it does get called.

nyjunc
11-01-2012, 04:31 PM
the clock stopped immeditely as we touched the ball, our guy pounced on it and rooled over. There's no way half a second could run off in that time.

The New Guy
11-01-2012, 04:35 PM
the clock stopped immeditely as we touched the ball, our guy pounced on it and rooled over. There's no way half a second could run off in that time.

Are you not reading what I am posting? I just showed you a picture where the Jets player jumps on the ball at the end of 2:02. You claim the clock stopped as soon as it hits 2:01, but you can't know this without looking at the next play since you can't see the tenths that are running off. Please watch the next play and you will see that the clock goes to 2:00 in a tenth of a second. If the clock stopped as soon as it hits 2:01, it would have taken a full second before the clock changed to 2:00 on the next play and not the 1-tenth that it did.

FinfanInBuffalo
11-01-2012, 06:41 PM
Are you not reading what I am posting? I just showed you a picture where the Jets player jumps on the ball at the end of 2:02. You claim the clock stopped as soon as it hits 2:01, but you can't know this without looking at the next play since you can't see the tenths that are running off. Please watch the next play and you will see that the clock goes to 2:00 in a tenth of a second. If the clock stopped as soon as it hits 2:01, it would have taken a full second before the clock changed to 2:00 on the next play and not the 1-tenth that it did.

Don't bother. Reality and logic are Junc's mortal enemies....

nyjunc
11-02-2012, 08:35 AM
Are you not reading what I am posting? I just showed you a picture where the Jets player jumps on the ball at the end of 2:02. You claim the clock stopped as soon as it hits 2:01, but you can't know this without looking at the next play since you can't see the tenths that are running off. Please watch the next play and you will see that the clock goes to 2:00 in a tenth of a second. If the clock stopped as soon as it hits 2:01, it would have taken a full second before the clock changed to 2:00 on the next play and not the 1-tenth that it did.

he didn't have possession at 2:02, he wa on top of it. he was rolling around w/ it at 2:01, what game have you ever seen a fumble recovery where a player is rollomg w/ the ball stopped the second he touches it? it doesn't happen, the Jets got screwed by the clock. It's ok to admit it.

The New Guy
11-02-2012, 11:24 AM
he didn't have possession at 2:02, he wa on top of it. he was rolling around w/ it at 2:01, what game have you ever seen a fumble recovery where a player is rollomg w/ the ball stopped the second he touches it? it doesn't happen, the Jets got screwed by the clock. It's ok to admit it.


I agree that you can not determine possession at the point when he first touches it. He first touched it when the clock read 2:02. That leaves a full second after that to determine possession and the clock to still stop on 2:01:

http://imageshack.us/a/img42/8266/kickoff3e.jpg

That picture is within that second where the clock should still read 2:01 and it is very, very clear that he has possession and is down by contact. The clock kept running after he first touched the ball, and didn't stop until that picture above. That means the clock would be at the very end of 2:01. You can verify that is true by watching the next play and how quickly the clock changes to 2:00 .

If the evidence didn't show otherwise, I would have no problem saying that the clock should have gone to 2:00. If the Jets really got screwed by the clock, why do you think that I wouldn't admit it? You have already said yourself, that the clock is not why the Jets lost. I would agree since NE was already in FG range with the clock stopped, (0:22 left) before they ran 2 more plays and used that last time out. If I really thought that the clock stopped before it should have, I could argue that it made no difference. I call it like it is and don't just by in to conspiracy theories and ignore the evidence.

nyjunc
11-02-2012, 11:55 AM
I agree that you can not determine possession at the point when he first touches it. He first touched it when the clock read 2:02. That leaves a full second after that to determine possession and the clock to still stop on 2:01:

http://imageshack.us/a/img42/8266/kickoff3e.jpg

That picture is within that second where the clock should still read 2:01 and it is very, very clear that he has possession and is down by contact. The clock kept running after he first touched the ball, and didn't stop until that picture above. That means the clock would be at the very end of 2:01. You can verify that is true by watching the next play and how quickly the clock changes to 2:00 .

If the evidence didn't show otherwise, I would have no problem saying that the clock should have gone to 2:00. If the Jets really got screwed by the clock, why do you think that I wouldn't admit it? You have already said yourself, that the clock is not why the Jets lost. I would agree since NE was already in FG range with the clock stopped, (0:22 left) before they ran 2 more plays and used that last time out. If I really thought that the clock stopped before it should have, I could argue that it made no difference. I call it like it is and don't just by in to conspiracy theories and ignore the evidence.

that screenshot is w/ the clock already stopped, it should probably be at 1:59 at the time of this screen shot.

I didn't say anything about a conspiracy, it could have been an honest error but it was an error and that is as clear as can be.

FinfanInBuffalo
11-02-2012, 12:15 PM
that screenshot is w/ the clock already stopped, it should probably be at 1:59 at the time of this screen shot.

I didn't say anything about a conspiracy, it could have been an honest error but it was an error and that is as clear as can be.

You have no idea whether quick stoppages or delayed stoppages are the norm. You have no idea how long (on average) it takes. You are simply talking out of your butt. Review them all and get back to me when you have numbers for the min, max, average, and standard deviation.

Seriously, complaints to get filed with the league office from time to time. If the Jets thought they got jobbed, they could file a complaint. That would at least put teams on notice that these things are being watched and disciplinary action could be taken for flagrant violations. This is especially true since the Jets play at NE every season.

It is a non-issue.

nyjunc
11-02-2012, 12:17 PM
You have no idea whether quick stoppages or delayed stoppages are the norm. You have no idea how long (on average) it takes. You are simply talking out of your butt. Review them all and get back to me when you have numbers for the min, max, average, and standard deviation.

Seriously, complaints to get filed with the league office from time to time. If the Jets thought they got jobbed, they could file a complaint. That would at least put teams on notice that these things are being watched and disciplinary action could be taken for flagrant violations. This is especially true since the Jets play at NE every season.

It is a non-issue.

I watch every Jet game, I watch a million other games and I have NEVER seen a clock stop so fast. The Giants were whining last week and this as after an extra second ticked off when Witten went OOB. That is the norm not stopping instantly when a guy jumps on a ball. even if he had it secured immediately there's no way for the clock to stop that quickly.

AphexPhin
11-02-2012, 12:57 PM
nyjunc, just let it go.

The New Guy
11-02-2012, 01:24 PM
that screenshot is w/ the clock already stopped, it should probably be at 1:59 at the time of this screen shot.

I didn't say anything about a conspiracy, it could have been an honest error but it was an error and that is as clear as can be.

You are starting to sound like JETSJETSJETS. Junc, please explain to me how we can know the clock is already stopped at that point? I have already explained why we know it was not stopped, and proved that there was a full second left to determine possession and stop the clock after he first touched the ball.

If it makes you feel better, then by all means continue to think that they were screwed, or that there was an error. The evidence says otherwise.

nyjunc
11-02-2012, 01:32 PM
You are starting to sound like JETSJETSJETS. Junc, please explain to me how we can know the clock is already stopped at that point? I have already explained why we know it was not stopped, and proved that there was a full second left to determine possession and stop the clock after he first touched the ball.

If it makes you feel better, then by all means continue to think that they were screwed, or that there was an error. The evidence says otherwise.

b/c it stopped at 2:01 so it's pretty clear the clock is already stopped.

I don't think we were screwed I KNOW we were but AGAIN we still should have won. Good teams take advantage and that is what NE did but they gained a significant advantage saving a TO for them which changes the way you run your offenses in that last minute.

The New Guy
11-02-2012, 06:47 PM
b/c it stopped at 2:01 so it's pretty clear the clock is already stopped.

I don't think we were screwed I KNOW we were but AGAIN we still should have won. Good teams take advantage and that is what NE did but they gained a significant advantage saving a TO for them which changes the way you run your offenses in that last minute.


:lol: Well, that settles it then. :rolleyes2: We can just ignore all of the actual evidence that says otherwise and move on. :up:

JETSJETSJETS
11-05-2012, 03:15 AM
Apparently you didn't, or you would have known your claim of 2 to 3 seconds was impossible. I wrote out the tenths in front (2:06.99) in an effort to try to get you to understand that all tenths need to be counted. I never implied that 2:07 should be on the clock (which is how 2:06.1 to 2:06.99 would show up on the clock) It is written out incorrectly, but nothing changes if you count out the tenths in front if you count the second down (meaning 2:06.99 changes to 2:05 after 0:00.99 seconds) or if you count them out the proper way (2:05.99 changes to 2:05 in 0:00.99 seconds) You said:
Here's what you wrote, again "You made a critical error. 2:06 could potentially be anywhere from 2:06.01 to 2:06.99."



I have said 4-tenths from the beginning, and 159:70 is 4-tenths away from 2:00.10 which will read 2:01 on the NFL clock. You kept saying 2 to 3 seconds which means you were not including all the tenths that ran off. This is the first post that you now get it and have change your 2-3 second difference to 1 second. You are still wrong, but I am glad we are finally getting closer.

They only one whining about tenths of seconds is u.


We know when it should have been stopped, and know that it got stopped within tenths of when it should have been. You can watch the Jets FG attempt before the KO fumble and know that there should be a full 10-tenths on the 2:06. Trying to figure out the reaction time is silly.

Average human reaction time is just over .2 seconds.


I could say well maybe the operators reaction time was longer than it should have been on the FG stoppage, and maybe he started it too early on the KO return. Who cares? We know when it should have stopped on the last play and when it should have started on the next play. Based on the play before, there should be a full 10-tenths on the 2:06, which means that we have 5.9 seconds that can pass between 2:06.00 and 2:00.1. We know that is accurate based on the play before and the play after.

Wrong. From the time the returner catches the ball, to the time clock ticks down to 2:05 is .8 seconds total. Minus the reaction time, and the time the returner took to take the ball out of the EZ, we only have .5 seconds. That means we only had 2:05:50 on the clock before the start of the play. The play took 6.9 seconds. 2:05:50 minus 6.9 is 1:58:6, or 1:59 on the NFL clock (which stopped at 2:01). Difference between 2:01 and 1:59 is 2 seconds, which backs up my claim of 2-3 seconds.


I don't have any faith that you started timing it at the right time, and stopped it at the right time. From the time he entered the field of play to the time the whistle came is 6.3 seconds, not 6.9. You claiming that there is only 1-tenth of a second difference between the official waving his arms and the whistle blowing is ridiculous, unless he is Flash Gordon. I would like to see what a waving arm, being raised from the hip,towards the sky in 1-tenth of a second, looks like.

I would like to know if the clock operator was even looking at that ref and not paying attention to a different ref? I could care less, but we do know when the whistle came in.


You are the one whining about tenths of a second, not me. Maybe it did read 2:05.70, and the reaction time on the next play was 1-tenth which account for 8-tenths being ran off before the clock changed. Maybe it read 2:05.20 and the clock operators reaction time was 6-tenths which would account for the 8-tenths that you see. None of that matters to me. What matters is what it should be, and we know what it should be based on the play before and after.

You've been whining about tenths of seconds. I've maintained my 2-3 second claim.



You have claimed 2 to 3 seconds this whole time. The clock read 2:06 when it started and stopped at 2:01. Do the math. Even with the whistle coming as far as 6.9 seconds and the clock stopping as soon as it hits 2:01, you still can't get a 2 to 3 seconds. This is the first post that you get it and have changed your tune.

Repost alert: From the time the returner catches the ball, to the time clock ticks down to 2:05 is .8 seconds total. Minus the reaction time, and the time the returner took to take the ball out of the EZ, we only have .5 seconds. That means we only had 2:05:50 on the clock before the start of the play. The play took 6.9 seconds. 2:05:50 minus 6.9 is 1:58:6, or 1:59 on the NFL clock (which stopped at 2:01). Difference between 2:01 and 1:59 is 2 seconds, which backs up my claim of 2-3 seconds.


That is your claim, not mine. My math is based on 2:06.00 which is what should be on the clock. It is 5.9 seconds that passed, and 6.3 when the whistle blew. 4-tenths which is what I have been telling you since the beginning.

U math is weak, because you are not even trying to figure out if the clock read 2:05:05 or 2:06:00 without anything to back it up with. I've backed it up with my claim. See above.


On top of that, 6.3 is when the whistle blew, not when the play was being signaled dead. That could have come as early as 5.5, so even according to your calculations, the clock operator still would have had 1-tenth to stop the clock at 2:01.

Ur math is weak. ur 5.5 second calculations are pretty funny, cuz I slowed down the speed to one fourth and from the time the player leaves the EZ to the part whistle blows, its almost 28 seconds (6.9 seconds).


No, 5.5 is when he clearly has possession and was down by contact. The Jets player recovered the the ball and was first touched by a NE player at 4.8 seconds. You claim the whistle came at 6.9, and it actually came at 6.3. Anyone can examine the video and determine who is right. We know the play was being signaled dead before the whistle blew. Based on the recovery on the video, the official could have signaled it as early as 5.5. We can't see him, so we can't know for sure if he was, but it certainly would have been reasonable for him to do so. The NFL looked into this and they have a lot more video angels to see when the signal came. The NFL said there was no foul play. I don't take the NFL's word alone, but examining the play myself, I agree.

NFL almost always backs up with refs.

The New Guy
11-08-2012, 05:12 PM
:crazy: Just when I thought that we were making some progress, you start posting nonsense again. :lol:



Here's what you wrote, again "You made a critical error. 2:06 could potentially be anywhere from 2:06.01 to 2:06.99."

How many times do I have to repeat myself? I already told you that it was written out incorrectly. I wrote the tenths out front because you obviously didn't get that the tenths needed to be counted. Here is the proof. I wrote:



You say that the whistle came 2-3 seconds after the clock stopped. That is impossible. I just proved that the clock was stopped after 5.9 seconds, and we know that we heard the whistle after 6.3 seconds. That is a difference of 4-tenths of a second, not 2 to 3 seconds.

And you responded:


You are wrong again. Let me prove it to you in ur words. If the play took 6.3 seconds then from 2:06:00 minus 6:3 seconds is 1:59:70.

You obviously didn't know that 1:59.70 reads 2:00 on an NFL clock and that 1:59.70 is only 4-tenths away from reading 2:01 on an NFL clock. The math backed up exactly what I was saying and you posted as if it didn't because you didn't know any better.

I don't even care if you want to harp on the tenths being written incorrectly (out front for your benefit) it does not change my argument of 4-tenths versus your argument of 2 to 3 seconds.



Wrong. From the time the returner catches the ball, to the time clock ticks down to 2:05 is .8 seconds total. Minus the reaction time, and the time the returner took to take the ball out of the EZ, we only have .5 seconds. That means we only had 2:05:50 on the clock before the start of the play. The play took 6.9 seconds. 2:05:50 minus 6.9 is 1:58:6, or 1:59 on the NFL clock (which stopped at 2:01). Difference between 2:01 and 1:59 is 2 seconds, which backs up my claim of 2-3 seconds.

You can't pass off assumptions as facts. You have no clue when the clock operator actually started the clock. We can make all kinds of assumptions like that if we want to. Maybe there was 2:06.00 and he started it 2-tenths too early. Maybe he let the clock run longer than it should have on the Jets FG attempt and there was only 2:05.3 and he started it 5 tenths too late on the KO return. All of that would add up to the 8-tenths you are seeing, but what actually happened can not be proven. All you know is that when you think the clock should have been started, .8 seconds passed before it changed to 2:05. I don't need to make assumptions about how much time was actually on the clock and exactly when he started and stopped it. I know how much time should be on the clock based on the Jets FG attempt, and I know when the clock should start and stop based on the rules. That is all we need to know.



I would like to know if the clock operator was even looking at that ref and not paying attention to a different ref? I could care less, but we do know when the whistle came in.

You are arguing that the clock stopped 2 to 3 seconds before it should have. Are you now trying to argue that it is not reasonable for the clock operator to stop the clock when the official was giving the signal because he might have been looking somewhere else? Ridiculous!




You've been whining about tenths of seconds. I've maintained my 2-3 second claim.

You foolishly maintained your 2 to 3 second claim even when I showed you that it was impossible since the play took 6.3 seconds and that 5.9 seconds can pass from 2:06 to 2:01 before the clock changes to 2:00. When you finally figured out that your claim of 2 to 3 seconds was impossible at 6.3 seconds, you started to make up stuff and increased the time of the play to 6.9 seconds and decreased the time on the clock down to 5.5 with your assumptions about the clock operator.





Repost alert: From the time the returner catches the ball, to the time clock ticks down to 2:05 is .8 seconds total. Minus the reaction time, and the time the returner took to take the ball out of the EZ, we only have .5 seconds. That means we only had 2:05:50 on the clock before the start of the play. The play took 6.9 seconds. 2:05:50 minus 6.9 is 1:58:6, or 1:59 on the NFL clock (which stopped at 2:01). Difference between 2:01 and 1:59 is 2 seconds, which backs up my claim of 2-3 seconds.

You still don't get it. If you want to get an accurate time, you need to count the tenths and not only what the NFL clock reads. Even when you incorrectly increase the time of the play to 6.9 seconds and you decrease the time (with assumptions) on the clock to 5.5 seconds, you still can't make it to your 2 to 3 seconds claim. It is 1.4 seconds. You still need 0.6 to 1.6 more to make it to your 2 to 3 second claim.




U math is weak, because you are not even trying to figure out if the clock read 2:05:05 or 2:06:00 without anything to back it up with. I've backed it up with my claim. See above.

Your assumptions do not back up anything. We can't prove how much time was actually on the clock becasue we can't prove exactly when the clock operator started and stopped the clock. What we do know is how much time should be on the clock based on the play before and when the clock should start and stop based on the rules.

You can eliminate the variable of the clock operator by starting the timer at 2:05. We know there is a full 2:05.00 on the clock since we can see it go from 2:06 to 2:05 right in front of our eyes. Correct? From 2:05.00, 4.9 seconds can pass, and the clock will still read 2:01. Agreed?

I included a timer with tenths that starts at 2:05 on the video. The timer actually starts 1-tenth too soon, but it doesn't really make a difference to my argument of 4-tenths versus your argument of 2 to 3 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=245ub9bK7t0


As you can see in the video, he clearly has possession at 4.6 seconds.

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif


That ^ still leaves 3-tenths (actually 4-tenths since I started the timer 1-tenth too soon) for the clock to be stopped at 2:01. The official is most likely waving his arms at this point. You can see the official when he first comes in to view waving his arms at 5.2 here:

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

Since I started the clock 1-tenth too soon, it should really read 5.1 which means he is giving the signal within 2-tenths of the clock reading 2:01. On my PC, the audio of the whistle lines up perfectly with the clock stopping at 5.4, but for some reason the sound is slightly delayed after uploading it to youtube. In the youtube video, it looks like the clock stops a split second before you hear the whistle blow, but it does not on my PC. Regardless, I started the clock 1-tenth too soon and even with the sound delay, it is no more than a 1-tenth difference, so we are still in the 4-tenths range (Far from the 2 to 3 second range) of the clock reading 2:01 at the time of the whistle.

However, there is no need to go to the whistle since we clearly see possession before that, and the official giving the signal before the whistle is blown.

This should end this silly debate, but I am sure you will come up with something.

nyjunc
11-08-2012, 05:22 PM
you van post still photos all you want, watch the video in real time. There's no way on earth the clock could have been stopped that quickly. Give it up already, the game is a month old. We all know the Jets got screwed but still should have won the game.

The New Guy
11-08-2012, 05:29 PM
you van post still photos all you want, watch the video in real time. There's no way on earth the clock could have been stopped that quickly. Give it up already, the game is a month old. We all know the Jets got screwed but still should have won the game.

I posted the video which can be seen in real time. The still shots with the timer shown is from that video. If you don't think a clock can be stopped within a half a second, I can't help you. I have provided more than enough proof that shows the Jets did not get screwed. You and JetsJetsJets are the ones that continue to claim that in spite of the evidence. You are the ones that need to give it up. I am on the side of the truth.

nyjunc
11-08-2012, 05:55 PM
I posted the video which can be seen in real time. The still shots with the timer shown is from that video. If you don't think a clock can be stopped within a half a second, I can't help you. I have provided more than enough proof that shows the Jets did not get screwed. You and JetsJetsJets are the ones that continue to claim that in spite of the evidence. You are the ones that need to give it up. I am on the side of the truth.

you are going down to tenths of a second, just the reaction time alone from time we recover it at 2:01 until the clock could be stopped would make it at least 2:00, the 2 min warning should have happened, we got screwed. It's ok to admit it.

The New Guy
11-08-2012, 06:09 PM
you are going down to tenths of a second, just the reaction time alone from time we recover it at 2:01 until the clock could be stopped would make it at least 2:00, the 2 min warning should have happened, we got screwed. It's ok to admit it.

You have to be kidding right? You think it takes over a full second for a clock operator to stop a clock? :lol: It is amazing that I can watch the video in real time with a stop watch and come up with exactly what shows up on the video. The clock gets stopped when it is clear that the Jets had possession and was down by contact. It is like you want to change the rules of when the clock should stop and extend it for no good reason, There is no debate here. The evidence is very clear. It is ok to look at the evidence and admit that the clock should have rightfully been stopped at 2:01. It is ok to admit that the Jets screwed themselves.

nyjunc
11-09-2012, 09:42 AM
we hopped on it at 2:01(or just as it turned 2:01), there's no way the clock should stop at 2:01. It's not possible, watch any game and watch how the clock continues to tick after players go down or OOB. It doesn't happen except that day.

The New Guy
11-09-2012, 03:27 PM
we hopped on it at 2:01(or just as it turned 2:01), there's no way the clock should stop at 2:01. It's not possible, watch any game and watch how the clock continues to tick after players go down or OOB. It doesn't happen except that day.

He already had the ball and was in the process of rolling over at the end of 2:02. Look at the clock:

http://imageshack.us/a/img685/3800/kickoff4.jpg

That leaves more than a second to determine possession and stop the clock. He clearly has possession a half second later here:

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/4840/timetv.jpg

You already denied that the picture above was when the clock should read 2:01, so I included the tenths so you could see that it was indeed within the 2:01 time frame. There is still 4-tenths left to stop the clock which is plenty for any kind of reaction time.

You keep saying there is no way the clock should stop, but you are ignoring the rules and the facts. The clock is supposed to stop when the player has possession and is down by contact. He was clearly down by contact and the clock should stop at 2:00.5 (2:01 on the NFL clock) I am certain that is when the ref was signaling the play dead and I am sure the NFL saw that when they looked into the play. We can even see the ref doing so on the T.V within 2-tenths of the clock reading 2:01. Just because you have seen an extra second or two run off the clock when it should not, does not mean that your team got screwed when the clock stops when it is supposed to.

nyjunc
11-12-2012, 11:45 AM
Interesting that at the end of the 1st half we returned a kick, our returner was tackled at 2:01 w/ the whistle blowing and the clock ticked off to 1:59. Amazing how it always works that way except that day in NE.

WVDolphan
11-12-2012, 01:09 PM
:lol: This has turned into the only thread a Jests fan will step in. Its a place where they can whine about ONE game. :lol: They still argue over this as if it wouldve mattered. :rotfl1:

The Jests blow. :lol:

nyjunc
11-12-2012, 01:28 PM
:lol: This has turned into the only thread a Jests fan will step in. Its a place where they can whine about ONE game. :lol: They still argue over this as if it wouldve mattered. :rotfl1:

The Jests blow. :lol:

I've said over and over we should have won despite getting screwed so I don't use it as an excuse, I'd be more active today but I am giving you guys a day to vent over the humiliation against one of the leagues worst teams at home yesterday. We sucked too but at least we lost to a good team on the road.

JETSJETSJETS
11-12-2012, 03:28 PM
You can eliminate the variable of the clock operator by starting the timer at 2:05. We know there is a full 2:05.00 on the clock since we can see it go from 2:06 to 2:05 right in front of our eyes. Correct? From 2:05.00, 4.9 seconds can pass, and the clock will still read 2:01. Agreed?

I included a timer with tenths that starts at 2:05 on the video. The timer actually starts 1-tenth too soon, but it doesn't really make a difference to my argument of 4-tenths versus your argument of 2 to 3 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=245ub9bK7t0


As you can see in the video, he clearly has possession at 4.6 seconds.

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif


That ^ still leaves 3-tenths (actually 4-tenths since I started the timer 1-tenth too soon) for the clock to be stopped at 2:01. The official is most likely waving his arms at this point. You can see the official when he first comes in to view waving his arms at 5.2 here:

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

Since I started the clock 1-tenth too soon, it should really read 5.1 which means he is giving the signal within 2-tenths of the clock reading 2:01. On my PC, the audio of the whistle lines up perfectly with the clock stopping at 5.4, but for some reason the sound is slightly delayed after uploading it to youtube. In the youtube video, it looks like the clock stops a split second before you hear the whistle blow, but it does not on my PC. Regardless, I started the clock 1-tenth too soon and even with the sound delay, it is no more than a 1-tenth difference, so we are still in the 4-tenths range (Far from the 2 to 3 second range) of the clock reading 2:01 at the time of the whistle.

However, there is no need to go to the whistle since we clearly see possession before that, and the official giving the signal before the whistle is blown.

So you agree the clock should have been stopped at 2:00? Thank you. That should end the debate.

JETSJETSJETS
11-12-2012, 03:33 PM
:lol: This has turned into the only thread a Jests fan will step in. Its a place where they can whine about ONE game. :lol: They still argue over this as if it wouldve mattered. :rotfl1:

The Jests blow. :lol:

Interesting how a 3-6 team just whooped ur behind and u still wanna argue if the Jets game mattered or not. Dolphins blow too. They are playing better than they were supposed to, but they still blow. And while we are at it, the Bills also blow. This division has been a train wreck besides the Pats.

The New Guy
11-12-2012, 04:27 PM
Interesting that at the end of the 1st half we returned a kick, our returner was tackled at 2:01 w/ the whistle blowing and the clock ticked off to 1:59. Amazing how it always works that way except that day in NE.

He got tackled at 2:00, and it went down to 1:59 after the whistle. The clock should not have gone to 1:59. I don't care if the clock operators let an extra second tick off (in a meaningless situation) when it technically should not. That does not mean that we should whine when they actually stop the clock when it should be stopped. That would be like me showing you an example of PI that was not called, and then whining about it when a Dolphins player comits PI and it is called.

I already proved he had posession and was down by contact when the clock should still read 2:01. You even have video proof of the official signaling the play dead within 2-tenhs of the clock reading 2:01. It was the right call. Let it go man!



So you agree the clock should have been stopped at 2:00? Thank you. That should end the debate.

Don't worry JETSJETSJETS, I'll teach you to read one day. :lol:

nyjunc
11-12-2012, 06:17 PM
He got tackled at 2:00, and it went down to 1:59 after the whistle. The clock should not have gone to 1:59. I don't care if the clock operators let an extra second tick off (in a meaningless situation) when it technically should not. That does not mean that we should whine when they actually stop the clock when it should be stopped. That would be like me showing you an example of PI that was not called, and then whining about it when a Dolphins player comits PI and it is called.

I already proved he had posession and was down by contact when the clock should still read 2:01. You even have video proof of the official signaling the play dead within 2-tenhs of the clock reading 2:01. It was the right call. Let it go man!




Don't worry JETSJETSJETS, I'll teach you to read one day. :lol:

he was down at 2:10, clock kept going until 1:59 just like it should have against NE.

The New Guy
11-13-2012, 04:19 PM
he was down at 2:10, clock kept going until 1:59 just like it should have against NE.

Show me the rule that says that the clock should continue to run an extra second or two after the play is dead. I am not denying that it happens sometimes, (like it did in the Jets last game) but don't whine that your team got screwed when they stop it when it should be stopped. I can show you the rules that state that the clock should have stopped. You are going to have a hard time showing me a rule that says an extra second or 2 should run off the clock after the official signals the play dead. You and JETSJETSJETS claim that the clock stopped 2 to 3 seconds before it should, have been proven wrong. It is time to move on. :up:

nyjunc
11-13-2012, 04:29 PM
Show me the rule that says that the clock should continue to run an extra second or two after the play is dead. I am not denying that it happens sometimes, (like it did in the Jets last game) but don't whine that your team got screwed when they stop it when it should be stopped. I can show you the rules that state that the clock should have stopped. You are going to have a hard time showing me a rule that says an extra second or 2 should run off the clock after the official signals the play dead. You and JETSJETSJETS claim that the clock stopped 2 to 3 seconds before it should, have been proven wrong. It is time to move on. :up:

it does all the time, it shouldn't but when a guy rolls on a ball at 2:01 there's no way it can stop at 2:01. the absolutely worst case it stops at 2:00 and should have gone undre 2 mins.

JETSJETSJETS
11-13-2012, 05:51 PM
Show me the rule that says that the clock should continue to run an extra second or two after the play is dead. I am not denying that it happens sometimes, (like it did in the Jets last game) but don't whine that your team got screwed when they stop it when it should be stopped. I can show you the rules that state that the clock should have stopped. You are going to have a hard time showing me a rule that says an extra second or 2 should run off the clock after the official signals the play dead. You and JETSJETSJETS claim that the clock stopped 2 to 3 seconds before it should, have been proven wrong. It is time to move on. :up:

lol, the whole argument was about clock stopping early and not run till two min warning. u proved urself wrong. thank you very much.

The New Guy
11-14-2012, 12:57 AM
it does all the time, it shouldn't but when a guy rolls on a ball at 2:01 there's no way it can stop at 2:01. the absolutely worst case it stops at 2:00 and should have gone undre 2 mins.

It shouldn't is right. No one cares when it happens in a situation like the Seattle game. That does not mean that it should continue to run when it should not when the difference is a time out. I have clearly shown you that he jumped on it towards the end of 2:02, and that there is a full second to determine possession and stop the clock. That is more than enough time. In fact, we have video evidence of the official signaling the play dead within 2-tenths of the clock reading 2:01. I would be willing to bet that NFL films has another angle that shows the official signaling the play dead 4-tenths before the clock should turn to 2:00. You have seen the pic where the Jets players clearly has possession and is down by contact with more than 4-tenths to go.




lol, the whole argument was about clock stopping early and not run till two min warning. u proved urself wrong. thank you very much.

:chuckle: That was your argument, which was proven wrong. You are welcome. :up:

nyjunc
11-14-2012, 09:58 AM
the bottom line is this, our guy jumped on the ball as 2:02 was turning to 2:01, he rolled around on the ground and magically the clock stopped at 2:01.

The New Guy
11-14-2012, 12:44 PM
the bottom line is this, our guy jumped on the ball as 2:02 was turning to 2:01, he rolled around on the ground and magically the clock stopped at 2:01.

That leaves a full second before the clock ticks to 2:00. He had possession and was down by contact within that second. There is nothing magical about it. It is just the clock operator doing his job.

If the clock actually stopped before he had possession and was down by contact (like you guys were claiming), then I would agree. That is not what happened.

nyjunc
11-14-2012, 12:50 PM
he was rolling on the ground w/ the ball at 2:01 and magically it stopped at 2:01.

The New Guy
11-14-2012, 06:29 PM
he was rolling on the ground w/ the ball at 2:01 and magically it stopped at 2:01.

You keep saying that. I can repeat myself too. :chuckle: The difference is, I can back up what I am saying.


http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif


That ^ is not magic. It is having possession and being down by contact and the clock stopping like it is supposed to. He was not rolling around, but even if he was, you don't need to be completely still to be ruled down.

nyjunc
11-15-2012, 09:23 AM
except tha you can't b/c our guy JUST jumped on the ball and was still rolling w/ it, a still shot doesn't show that. The clock should have run to at least 2:00 if not 1:59 or 1:58 the way the clocks always run.

The New Guy
11-15-2012, 06:41 PM
except tha you can't b/c our guy JUST jumped on the ball and was still rolling w/ it, a still shot doesn't show that. The clock should have run to at least 2:00 if not 1:59 or 1:58 the way the clocks always run.

I can, and I have. The still shot shows possession, and being down by contact with the clock reading 2:01. According to the rules, that is when the clock should stop. I can post the rule, and have already shown that he clearly has possession at the 2:01 mark. It can also easily be seen on the video. What more do you need?

You are the one that can not back up what you are saying. All you can do is bring up some examples when the clock ran an extra second or 2 after the play was dead. So what? Bad calls happen all the time. We don't use those as examples to make up new rules. If the Jets were down by a touchdown with 7 seconds to go and completed a pass, went out of bounds at the 1 with the play being signaled dead with 2 seconds left, would you be arguing that those 2 seconds SHOULD tick off? I think not.