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Muck
03-21-2004, 01:25 AM
As you may or may not have noticed, our draft department has been pretty bare. Well that is all about to change. And it starts with our very own Boomer's indepth analysis of this year's Top 10 Quarterbacks (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/qb/index.php). I think you'll be pleased.

Also, I'd like to suggest checking the section out on a daily basis, as we will be constantly updating it. I am currently working on the next update as we speak and should have it up tonight or tomorrow. And that's only the beginning.

So stay tuned. And in the meantime, let us know what you think (of the section and the rankings themselves).

http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/draft.php

Edit: The Running Backs (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/rb/rb1/index.php) are up. :)

So are the Wide Receivers (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/wr/wr1/index.php). :cool:

Here are your Tight Ends (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/te/te1/).

Here are your Offensive Tackles (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/ot/ot1/).

Centers (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/c/c01/) anyone??

The Guards are up. (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/og/og1/index.php)

Now for the DE Rankings (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/de/)

Boomer's Mock Draft (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/mock/) is up.

The Defensive Tackle (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/dt/) analysis is up. :) Be sure to check that out. Not your typical rankings here.

Inside Linebackers (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/ilb/)

OLBs are up. (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/olb/)

CBs up. (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/cb/)

Safeties (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/safety/)

Fresh
03-21-2004, 01:30 AM
:hail:

Trackstar
03-21-2004, 01:39 AM
Its.... beggining...to...look ...alot.... like...... draft season. .:D

Lets the games begin!

Muck
03-21-2004, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by Trackstar#6

Lets the games begin!

The blue knight rules!! The red knight sucks......!!! You're goin' down, red knight!!

Clumpy
03-21-2004, 01:50 AM
:shakeno:

Noodle Arm
03-21-2004, 01:51 AM
That was a great analysis Boomer! Very interesting read...though I have a feeling some of the people in the "Rivers Cult" aren't going to like what he has to say.

Clumpy
03-21-2004, 01:52 AM
Solid Boomer :up:

Clumpy
03-21-2004, 02:06 AM
:whip:

Surferosa
03-21-2004, 02:23 AM
great work guys.

Danny
03-21-2004, 03:25 AM
Good job Boomer and good job overall with the draft.

Ozzy rules!!

4THand10
03-21-2004, 06:20 AM
Wheres QB Jeff Smoker?

mikefan22
03-21-2004, 08:43 AM
I really appreciate all the effort you guys put into everything on this board, but this kicks A$$! Thanks and keep up the great work! The TSN ain't got $h!T on you!

Al13
03-21-2004, 09:52 AM
well put mike, is boomer doing this for all the other positions as well ?

Pigskin Pimp
03-21-2004, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Al13
well put mike, is boomer doing this for all the other positions as well ?

I hope so, and I too appreciate all the time and effort put in.

Gives the Board I freaquent so often alot more credibility too. :cool:

BSQX4
03-21-2004, 11:39 AM
Excellent job Simon. A great read, looking forward to more.

Little Danny
03-21-2004, 12:46 PM
Boomer you are the MAN! I look forward to the rest of the analysis at other positions. This is as good or better than any I've found.

Of course I especially like that you have my boy Big Ben as the #1 QB.

I only wish he had snuck under the radar a bit so we could have picked him at #20. Oh well.

Boomer
03-21-2004, 01:19 PM
Thanks all. Yes I am doing all positions. I will also be doing a mock and I will be doing a look at potential pick by pick, round by round selections for our DOLPHINS!!!

Section126
03-21-2004, 01:49 PM
My receivers write up is on it's way to Muck right now.

mikefan22
03-21-2004, 01:59 PM
Keep it going guys I can't enough. This time of the season is almost as good as the season itself, well almost a fin win is the BEST!

Muck
03-21-2004, 09:41 PM
The Running Backs (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/rb/rb1/index.php) are up. :)

Greg Jones is quite a beast, isn't he. :eek:

dolphan39
03-21-2004, 11:13 PM
this is fan-tastic. Cannot wait 4 WRs.

Thanks much Boomer

TerryTate
03-22-2004, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by Muck


The blue knight rules!! The red knight sucks......!!! You're goin' down, red knight!!

Golden Knights are always #1 :)

Surferosa
03-22-2004, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by Muck
Greg Jones is quite a beast, isn't he. :eek:

:eek:

Bowl_Bound
03-22-2004, 11:58 AM
When do you do WRs???? Cant wait. Great info. Thanks.

Section126
03-22-2004, 01:07 PM
my WR's write ups comes out today.

Boomer
03-22-2004, 01:13 PM
Dreadlock - I sent Muck the WR's last night. They should be up soonest. Tight ends being kicked into shape as we speak.

Surferosa
03-22-2004, 01:53 PM
Boomer when does the mock come out?

Boomer
03-22-2004, 02:26 PM
Working on that as well Surf. All hands to the pump as it were.

Muck
03-22-2004, 05:52 PM
Wide Receivers (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/wr/wr1/index.php) are up. :cool:

Draft Central (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/draft.php)

Boomer
03-23-2004, 06:42 AM
Nice pictures Muck - thanks mate.

RUDEbyallMEANS
03-23-2004, 10:16 AM
Boomer, 3 words for you..

"You Da Man"

Boomer
03-23-2004, 10:46 AM
Well thanks Rude.

Bowl_Bound
03-23-2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Boomer
Working on that as well Surf. All hands to the pump as it were.


Great work as always. Especially interested in the WR position as I would guess we will grab at least one of them. A bit shocked at the Jenkins ranking and would love to debate it but that would be futile. Perhaps my time would be better spent arguing economic theory with Greenspan:lol: . Having said that what are the chances Jenkins falls to the 3rd round? If not what would it take to climb up and grab him? Thanks, as always, Boomer!!:D

Boomer
03-23-2004, 01:00 PM
Debate away Dreadlock - they are only my personal views. I think Jenkisn won't get past pick 40 if I'm honest. But I didn't think Chris Chambers would fall out of the 1st. But that said, Jenkins has played in a more pass oriented offense than CC and has return skills.

baccarat
03-23-2004, 11:59 PM
Great work at Draft Central. Keep it coming. Many thanks as it'll be used by I as a personal reference on draft day.

caneproud117
03-24-2004, 10:56 AM
By the way, Mike Williams didn't shun Miami or Florida State, he was never recruited by them :-), Florida wanted him but only as a TE. Everyone thought he'd make a better TE than a reciever. But, he did not shun Miami or Florida State, might want to edit that.

Boomer
03-24-2004, 11:25 AM
I know, as a big recruiting fan that Williams turned FSU down. Bobby Bowden also wanted him to play TE, but Williams eliminated them early on. Larry Coker said that he would play TE behind Winslow and then Eric Winston who later moved to LT. He actually wanted to play for Florida and came close to joining Joe Tiller at Purdue, who would have played him at WR. Williams said that USC would make him the go to WR, whereas Bowden had said that he would be a TE and Bobby rarely uses the TE. Williams cited BJ Ward who went to FSU as a highly rated WR and then was moved to safety as a reason why he ruled against Florida State.

caneproud117
03-24-2004, 11:30 AM
I remember on LOI day that neither Miami nor Florida State offered him a schollie. I too watch recruiting especially for my canes, this recruiting class is especially promissing, I'm looking forward to Monroe and Demps becoming cames next year too.

Section126
03-24-2004, 11:33 AM
They actually in a way insulted Mike Williams, as FSU told him that he was too slow to play WR in their system......Coker just wasn't as aggressive in making it clear that his speed was not desirable to play the position.

UM really did not pursue him aggressively, and FSU basically insulted him......thus he went to USC to play his position of choice.

Boomer
03-24-2004, 11:53 AM
No scholarships were offered as he'd already made it clear that he was heading to SC. But I agree, recruiting is fascinating. May I point you in the direction of the late Willie Morris' The Courting of Marcus Dupree. Stunning insight into the life of a recruit.

Boomer
03-24-2004, 11:55 AM
BTW - offensive tackles are done and I will be sending them to Muck tonight. He has Tight ends also - only a 1-5 but there will be a sleeper, late round goodies section forthcoming once the positional ratings are done. When I get a second I will do the mock as well. Or finish it.

TexasPhinPhan
03-24-2004, 12:41 PM
Boomer, I agree wholeheartedly with the top QBs on your list. Saw Big Ben play on TV five or six times in the past two years and was awed by his natural abilities. He has only upsides: big, strong, elusive, smart. He won't be a starter right away, but then watch out.

Muck
03-24-2004, 04:33 PM
Tight Ends are up. (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/te/) :cool:

BigFinFan
03-25-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Muck


The blue knight rules!! The red knight sucks......!!! You're goin' down, red knight!!

Come back here so that I may brain thee!

GetReal
03-26-2004, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by Muck
Tight Ends are up. (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/te/) :cool:

Read that, boy was I dissapointed. :cry:

Muck
03-26-2004, 05:43 PM
I'll bet you were, RuPaul.

GetReal
03-26-2004, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by Muck
I'll bet you were, RuPaul.

:rofl: Women dude, women!!!!

Muck
03-27-2004, 12:22 AM
Offensive Tackles (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/ot/index.php) ready for your viewing pleasure. :)

Quite a meaty writeup from Boomer.

Surferosa
03-27-2004, 05:32 PM
All I can say is...wow. Im practically speechelss.

wonderful writeups.

Muck
03-27-2004, 08:06 PM
What's REALLY going to be cool is looking back at these rankings and analysis when the draft is actually taking place, and after when the picks are made. :up:

t2thejz
03-27-2004, 09:58 PM
yea these write ups are better than any other draft site I have seen. Its a combination of all of them. Im really impressed

Muck
03-28-2004, 12:01 AM
It's seriously great stuff. I'm really proud of Boomer's work. Simply outstanding. :up:

RUDEbyallMEANS
03-28-2004, 01:17 AM
One thing though. I was very high on Shawn Andrews after reading Boomers analysis because he had him running the 10 yard dash in 1.74.

The Sporting News has Shawn Andrews running the 10 yard dash in 1.93.

Boomer, any reason why?? :confused:

ZOD
03-28-2004, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by BigFinFan


Come back here so that I may brain thee!

Red knight!! (http://65.24.81.11/sounds/movies/cable_guy/cgred.mp3)

Excellent articles!!

Muck
03-28-2004, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by RUDEbyallMEANS
One thing though. I was very high on Shawn Andrews after reading Boomers analysis because he had him running the 10 yard dash in 1.74.

The Sporting News has Shawn Andrews running the 10 yard dash in 1.93.

Boomer, any reason why?? :confused:

Boomer had him at 1.96.

I'm not sure if I updated his time with Pro Day info (as I did for some others, with Boomer's approval), or I just got my fingers reversed on the keyboard (9+6, 7+4). Knowing me, probably the latter. :rolleyes: But I'll look into it now. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I apologize for any potential error.

LarryFinFan
03-28-2004, 01:10 PM
I think if we sign Randall, we will not look at OL till later rounds, but I kinda like the reviews of Stacy Andrews....Shawns older bro...He could be a diamond in the rough...he's smaller than Shawn (346 lbs) w/o the weight fluctuation problems, similar times (4.96 in 40). Downside is experience...he was a walk-on at Miss and only started this year.

Here is one link on him...might be a 5-7 rounder or even FA.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/stacy_andrews

RUDEbyallMEANS
03-28-2004, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Muck
Boomer had him at 1.96.

I'm not sure if I updated his time with Pro Day info (as I did for some others, with Boomer's approval), or I just got my fingers reversed on the keyboard (9+6, 7+4). Knowing me, probably the latter. :rolleyes: But I'll look into it now. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I apologize for any potential error.


Oh OK. No reason to apologize. It puts it all in perspective cuz a guy that weighs 360 some pounds and runs the 10 yard dash in 1.73 is just flat out amazing. That's why I thought highly of him with those numbers.

Shawn Andrews is human now, in my eyes. :D

Muck
03-28-2004, 03:35 PM
Actually, in Saint Greg's interview, Shawn said he weighed 23 pounds less at his Pro Day this week than at the Combine (which was 366). So according to those words, he's at 343. And Saint Greg said in the interview that he lost 56 pounds this year. So it's likely between 343-345. I'm going gather some more info if I can.

Again, I could swear I read some official numbers from his Pro Day. But I can't seem to find a bookmark.

Boomer
03-28-2004, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Muck
What's REALLY going to be cool is looking back at these rankings and analysis when the draft is actually taking place, and after when the picks are made. :up:


What's going to be less cool is when the real draft comes around and makes my ratings look dumb because teams get love for other players that you don't consider or vice versa. :)

Muck
03-28-2004, 07:25 PM
:lol: You're crazy. That never happens. **cough**EDDIE MOORE**cough**

Muck
03-28-2004, 11:47 PM
According to Andrews' agent and an article in the Arkansas Democrate-Gazette, Andrews weighed 345 pounds at his Pro Day last week.

RUDEbyallMEANS
03-29-2004, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by Muck
According to Andrews' agent and an article in the Arkansas Democrate-Gazette, Andrews weighed 345 pounds at his Pro Day last week.

What did he run in the 10 yarder??

Muck
03-29-2004, 08:33 PM
Still can't find it. I'm now thinking that I just made the error that time. :shakeno:

Boomer
03-30-2004, 06:02 PM
Just to keep you all updated, I have done the centers and sent those to Muck. I am just now finishing my G ratings. I am also 3/4 of the way thru a 1st round mock which is causing me much chagrin because of all the possible trading up top and the general annoyance caused to me by Bill Belichick and what he can do on draft day. This is going to be a 1st round with immense trading I am sure. But bear with me. I am already doing my defensive rankings and the DE's and DT's should be with you soon. Once all positions are done, I will do a round by round analysis of what we should do and a look at potential late rounders/free agents who have caught my eye.

Muck
03-31-2004, 08:31 PM
and......they're up (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/c/) :cool:

McGahee Nation
04-01-2004, 06:31 PM
Phillip Rivers is a stud. He will be long gone. I think he's the best Quaterback in the draft next to Eli Manning. Ben is a joke he should be third behind Manning and Rivers. I take Rivers any day. By the way Dwayne Wade is a stud put him in at the end of the game. Lebron James for MVP if the Cavs make the playoffs. They will make the playoffs to.

Muck
04-01-2004, 06:54 PM
Big Ben a joke?? Have anything to back up such a bold statement??

Boomer
04-02-2004, 05:37 AM
I doubt it.

ckparrothead
04-02-2004, 12:29 PM
Ben had Phil Rivers type production and has Daunte Culpepper type physical tools. Unfortunately the production was at an inferior talent level but hey there's gotta be SOME chink in the armor. I still like Rivers but would like Manning or Roeth over Phil.

Boomer
04-02-2004, 07:45 PM
Same talent level that Vhad Pennington and Byron Leftwich faced. And it hasn't hurt them. Plus you can only beat what's in front of you. Plus I'd argue that a great majority of the MAC teams offer much more resilience than Duke, Wake Forest, etc.

Trackstar
04-03-2004, 12:50 AM
I would just like to say thanks to the guys at Finheaven for all the hard work in putting up this Draft analysis for our enjoyment.

Great Job...And thanks again.:)

Muck
04-03-2004, 01:43 PM
The Guards are up. (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/og/index.php) :)

Surferosa
04-03-2004, 05:12 PM
Great writeup Boomer. Question for you - where do you rank Shawn Andrews as a guard in this years draft - is he ahead of Smiley in your opinion?

Also, where do this years "second tier" (i.e other than Gallery) linemen- Andrews, Snee, Smiley, Grove, Locklear, etc - rank in comparison to last years rookie crop?

ckparrothead
04-03-2004, 06:47 PM
I still do not understand why Boomer has Carey ranked among tackles only but not among guards when like 90% of personnel evaluators in the NFL look at him as a guard prospect only not a tackle prospect. No offense or nothin. I would just find it more advantageous if Boomer evaluated him as a guard.

RUDEbyallMEANS
04-03-2004, 08:37 PM
Get to work Boomer. I'm interested to see what you say about Dunta Robinson, Jonathan Vilma, Karlos Dansby and Randy Starks which are defensive players I would love for Miami to take at #20 if any of them are there. Dansby is moving up draft boards and Vilma, IMO, is a top 10 player that would be there for Miami at 20.

Waiting on you Boomer, waiting on you. ;)

SMadison29
04-04-2004, 03:17 AM
Wo, rather high on Hall aren't you? I haven't seen one reputable site have him higher than a possible 5th rounder.

ckparrothead
04-04-2004, 04:55 PM
Oy, I dunno...I don't care how talented Dunta Robinson is if he's there I take someone else. Selecting a 1st round CB now would be even worst than when we took Fletcher because now we have not one, not two, but THREE corners signed longterm.

RUDEbyallMEANS
04-04-2004, 05:30 PM
If Shawn Andrews is not there, I would look to draft a defensive player that would replace one of the high salaries with a rookie salary which would mean the CB, MLB and OLB positions.

There are great talent available there at those positions.

Vilma at MLB, Robinson at CB and Karlos Dansby at OLB. Randy Starks would be great, but the DT salaries are not very high even though they both are getting nicked up. It is only my thought process but I believe this thought process would be beneficial.

Shawn Andrews is a toss up. Not so sure on him.

Boomer
04-04-2004, 06:53 PM
CK - as I said in my Carey report, more teams worked him out at T than G and he played better at T than he did at G which is why I listed him in the tackle ratings. If he had been in my G ratings he would have been 3rd.

Madison 29 - Hall is being listed everywhere as a T which is why he's a little lower. I happen to think after seeing him a number of times, most importantly 2 years ago when he didn't have the hip injury, that he can be an excellent G. Plus, the general OL field is very poor this year. An experienced player like Hall will go higher than you think. I'm just giving you my rankings based on what I have seen on tape for years with these kids. It would be pretty dull if we all had the same opinion on guys.

Boomer
04-04-2004, 08:47 PM
Rude, I'm working on it mate!!

BTW - Muck now has my mock draft, so that should be up soon.

ckparrothead
04-05-2004, 11:08 AM
CK - as I said in my Carey report, more teams worked him out at T than G and he played better at T than he did at G which is why I listed him in the tackle ratings. If he had been in my G ratings he would have been 3rd.

Thank you thats what I wanted to know. I didn't realize more teams worked him out at T than G. I know he played better in college as a tackle than guard but I think his future is at guard in the NFL specifically because I believe he won't cut it as a tackle in the NFL but he's too good not to see playing time...similar situation to Bobbie Williams I guess. Thats just what I think tho...lately I've been hearing Carey touted as a tackle a little more but I remain skeptical.

dolphan39
04-05-2004, 12:59 PM
I can see us trading a couple of spots to take Carey, Smiley or Snee if anyone is willing and Andrews is gone

Muck
04-05-2004, 08:53 PM
I apologize guys. Boomer sent me the mock last night. And I worked on it till I fell asleep. But this weekend my very small company bought out a very large one. So now I'm working insane hours Mondays thru Saturdays. And I'm exhausted. And just as I'm just walking in the door now, I'm getting called off on a side job 25 mins away. So I'll see you guys later. :(

It's crazy. I get laid off and struggle just to barely keep from getting evicted for a year. Now I've got all the work I can handle and finally look to be bouncing back. In two days things have changed 180 degrees for me. So many opportunities now. Life's a roller coaster. Thank you Jesus.

I promise to get that mock draft up ASAP. It's really good. Boomer did a great job as usual. And I hate to have great stuff for the site just sitting around (and neglecting other responsibilities here). But I'm just running out of hours in the day. And I need at least a few hours sleep each night. :)

Muck
04-06-2004, 10:34 PM
Boomer's Mock Draft (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/mock/) is up. Sorry for the delay.

Dozerdog
04-08-2004, 10:39 AM
Check out

BillsZone Draft Central (http://www.billszone.com/YourSite/global/templates/view.php?action=YourSite_content&month=4&state=news&nid=9352) and the BillsZone Draft -O-Matic 5000 (http://www.billszone.com/YourSite/global/templates/view.php?action=YourSite_content&month=1&state=news&nid=9439)


The Draft-o-matic is a mock draft engine. a dozen or so prospects the Bills could be looking at in each round that should be there when the Bills pick. You can create your own Mock draft! This one iis set up along Bill's needs, but could be modified for a Miami draft or whatever team you root for. This one is set up for the Bills- No 6th round, 2 7th round picks, light on positions the Bills don't need

Hey Muck- I know how much effort goes into these things- we should consider combining efforts next season for a real kick- *** draft page. The player profiles are the hardest.

Muck
04-08-2004, 09:06 PM
That is quite impressive, DD. Great job.

Boomer
04-09-2004, 06:26 AM
Just an update......I am finishing the DE's now, and as I have 4 days off for the Easter weekend, I hope to have the DT's and at least one LB spot done by close of play Monday.

With the draft just 2 weeks away, I am still aiming to of course do a position by position guide, a few days to go Mock, a Miami mock with a twist and Boomer's Value picks - late round and free agent types I like.

Is there any worth in having a pre-draft chat session, in a chat room at some time?

Surferosa
04-09-2004, 06:39 AM
Boomer,

I definitely think a chat session, or at least a Q&A thread is a GREAT idea. I actually wanted to suggest something similar but didnt want to burden you with the additional work. :)

Boomer
04-09-2004, 08:28 AM
Surf - I also think it's a good idea and I'm happy to do it. Typically, I have to go to Belfast for work on the Thursday before the draft and in fact I will miss the first hour of ithe draft because my flight home doesn't land till 20 minutes before the start. But anything that last week, when the rumours and the news are really flowing, would be perfect. I will e-mail George and see if we can set it up.

More than happy to give people as much info as possible.

harmonkoz
04-10-2004, 02:15 PM
Great stuff, although I was surprised to not see Jason Peters on the TE list. A 330 lb TE that runs the 40 in 4.90, how can that be overlooked?

Muck
04-10-2004, 11:01 PM
DE Rankings (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/de/) are up.

Boomer
04-11-2004, 10:52 AM
Harmonkoz - the reason being, the majority of teams are looking at him as a T, not a TE.

Boomer
04-11-2004, 09:31 PM
OK - DT's sent to Muck at 2.29am Monday morning. It's an interesting list that most people will complain about. :)

harmonkoz
04-13-2004, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Boomer
Harmonkoz - the reason being, the majority of teams are looking at him as a T, not a TE.

I realize that Boomer, but I think they are all fools. A f'ing 330 lb TE that can churn out a 4.9 in the 40? Put him with a 300 + lb offensive line... Hell who needs the Big formation? I could run behind that, and I am not exactly the picture of fitness. :chuckle:

Boomer
04-13-2004, 05:46 PM
LOL Harmonkoz. I'm sure when he gets to camp, teams will look hard at whether he is a viable TE or a T. I think he'll end up like Jim Kleinsasser.

ckparrothead
04-13-2004, 06:37 PM
Isn't Jim Kleinsasser a fullback/h-back?

Boomer
04-13-2004, 07:24 PM
Yep - which is what Peters could be. He has the blocking ability, the footwork, the hands and the strength/speed to the hole to assume that role, if it doesn't work out at T or TE.

P4E
04-13-2004, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by Boomer
OK - DT's sent to Muck at 2.29am Monday morning. It's an interesting list that most people will complain about. :)
Folks here, complain? Surely you jest.

Boomer
04-13-2004, 07:36 PM
Duh - silly me P4E. That never happens here. ;)

Muck
04-14-2004, 12:23 AM
The Defensive Tackle (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/dt/) analysis is up. :) Be sure to check that out. Not your typical rankings here.

ckparrothead
04-14-2004, 10:45 AM
Uh...wow dude...I hope you're not just trying to be controversial for the sake of being controversial Boomer...

caneproud117
04-14-2004, 12:18 PM
Alert the media, Boomers lost his mind. He's turned into a journalist trying to make everything controversial. "Wow", is right ckparrothead, there are no words.

Boomer
04-14-2004, 12:27 PM
Not at all CK - that's just how I see it. I knew people would be upset about Wilfork, but from watching a lot of ball over the last 4 years with this particular class, that's just what I think.

As I always say, it would be dull if we all thought the same. And I think I have lacked much controversy to this point, no ? :)

caneproud117
04-14-2004, 01:04 PM
I'd put Olshansky ahead of Dockett, he's the most overrated player out there. Mid Second material. Mine would look like.
1. Randy Starks
2. Vince Wilfork
3. Tommie Harris
4. Igor Olshansky
5. Darnell Dockett
6. Chad Lavalais
7. Marcus Tubbs
8. Dwan Edwards
9. Donnell Washington
10. Ahmad Childress

caneproud117
04-14-2004, 01:10 PM
I had the pleasure of seeing Dockett or should I say not seeing him in the backfield vs. Miami.

ckparrothead
04-14-2004, 02:13 PM
To each his own I guess. Certainly makes me feel good if I see the phins grab Starks or Dockett. Dockett another La'Roi Glover and Starks another Darrell Russell, way it sounds from Boomer's analyses.

BALLS DEEP
04-14-2004, 03:39 PM
Great Job GUYS!!!!Great Job GUYS!!!!

Boomer
04-14-2004, 04:22 PM
Cane, I had as much fun not seeing Wilfork in FSU's backfield. :)

I'm surprised you rate Olshansky that high. He has to prove, well at least to me, that he's more than just a workout guy. If he can do that, then he can be a player. But I would be scared of rating him above players like Edwards and Tubbs and Lavalais.

caneproud117
04-14-2004, 07:04 PM
The thing with the Canes DL is that they rotate 8 strong almost each and every year. Wilfork didn't have as many chances to get into the backfield as Dockett yet they both ended up with the same result against their respective teams. The reason I rate Olshansky that high is because of his potential, I like him to a D.J. Williams, who has all the physical tools just needs to refining to become a force. I have said many times that D.J. is overrated because of his physical skills, yet his football sense is where he is lacking. Olshansky is in the same boat, I think they'll take some time to become good players at this level.

Boomer
04-14-2004, 07:14 PM
Williams is an athlete playing linebacker. He needs to become a player to fulfil that potential. My concern is that what he's lacking isn;t the stuff you can teach.

As for Wilfork not getting enough chances, surely he should be making more of an impact rotating in and out of the fame and staying fresh than Dockett. This is a guy who had more tackles behind the line than anyone in FSU history - Jamal Reynolds, Ron Simmons, Peter Boulware, Derrick Brooks, Andre Wadsworth, Roland Seymour, etc.

caneproud117
04-14-2004, 09:24 PM
Surely you can do the math boomer, if a guy is in the game more often he has a better chance of getting in the backfield, fresh or not. You can not get in the backfield sitting on the bench. If there's a player that can do that, sign me up for his bandwagon.

Boomer
04-15-2004, 06:17 AM
I absolutely can do the math Cane, but what I'm saying is, that Wilfork is fresher longer and therefore should be able to make more impact as he's rotating in and out, rather than Dockett, midly undersized, who is on the field the entire time. Yes of course he has more opportunity as he's on the field longer, but if you are DL coming in and out, with Vince's rep, you should be making big plays all the time.

caneproud117
04-15-2004, 09:26 AM
The thing that's good about being mildly undersized is that you don't tire as easily, i.e. no extra weight holding you down and generally makes you more sluggish in the heat. Dockett has that over Wilfork, he can definately stay in the game longer because of his weight. I remember watching fsu play last year (not just the miami game, I watched them all) and thinking to myself 'does this guy ever make a play (last year)?' Everytime I watched him he was getting manhandled because of his size, the only thing he does well is get off those blocks as the running back is running through the lane to get a hand on him (usually trips him up). I am not impressed with his pass rushing ability and the only time I saw him getting sacks were because the coverage was good downfield (which did not happen that often last year IMO). I think you were correct with your first analysis of him, 'overrated' that word sums him up in a nutshell. Wilfork may not be as good as his rep would indicate but as to who is more overrated that would be your 'boy.

caneproud117
04-15-2004, 02:08 PM
And just in case anyone wants my analysis of Wilfork vs. Dockett's seasons stats here it is.
Vince Wilfork - 31 Solo Tackles, 33 Assisted Tackles,
Tackles for Loss - 11.5 for 41 yards, Sacks - 6 for 29 yards,
QB Hurries - 20, Forced Fumbles - 1, Recovered Fumbles - 1

Darnell Dockett - 30 Solo Tackles, 25 Assisted Tackles,
Tackles for Loss - 17 for 42 yards, Sacks - 1.5 for 15 yards
QB Hurries - 16, Forced Fumbles - 2, Recovered Fumbles - 0

So lets look at that tackles for loss you were bragging about Dockett having, at first look you'd think wow 17 TFL, then you realize it's only for 42 yards, an average of 2.47 yards in the backfield when he made the play (is 2.47 yards really in the backfield?) See my post about the just getting off blocks at the end of the play and getting a hand on the rusher. Next we look at his sack numbers, 1 and a half sacks for the whole season, with 16 QB Hurries. Meaning every 10.667 times he gets to hurry the QB, he makes one sack. That says to me that he either is too slow to get to the QB which I don't think is the case or he gets faked out when he gets to hurry the QB.

Now lets look at Wilforks numbers, 11.5 Tackles for Loss for 41 yards. Meaning he was 3.57 yards in the backfield when he made the tackle. Wilforks sack numbers are 6 sacks every 20 times he's in the backfield meaning every 3.33 times he gets to hurry the QB he makes a sack. That says to me that he stays disciplined and does not get faked out too much in the backfield.

Boomer
04-15-2004, 07:47 PM
There is a famous saying, "Lies, damned lies and statistics." You quote your stats till you're blue in the face, I'll go with what I see on tape.

caneproud117
04-15-2004, 08:40 PM
I did base that on what I saw, then I went back and looked at statistics to see if my opinions of him were right. Low and behold my opinions on his play were right, he is not a good pass rusher. He does one thing really well and that's get off of blocks once the lineman is locked on. I tend to think that a guy that's multidimensial who can play the run and the pass is much, much more valuable.

caneproud117
04-15-2004, 09:23 PM
Oh one more thing. If you think I'm the only one who notices stats or quotes them, I offer this to you "This is a guy who had more tackles behind the line than anyone in FSU history - Jamal Reynolds, Ron Simmons, Peter Boulware, Derrick Brooks, Andre Wadsworth, Roland Seymour, etc."-Boomer
If you're going to offer stats as basis for why he's not overrated why can't I use stats to prove that he is?

caneproud117
04-15-2004, 10:21 PM
Oh and Muck, you can move this part of the thread between Boomer and I about Wilfork and Dockett if you wish so it's not on your draft central thread at the top. It's related to his draft analysis so I guess it belongs here but you can be the judge of that ok? Thanks in Advance.

Muck
04-18-2004, 12:22 AM
Inside Linebackers (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/ilb/) :)

Boomer
04-18-2004, 07:42 PM
Just to keep you updated, I have sent Muck the OLB's and safeties. Just corners to do now, yippee.

ckparrothead
04-19-2004, 09:52 AM
The problem with your use of statistics caneproud is its a very normative argument. You start out believing that Wilfork is more dominant than Dockett (an opinion shared by many draftniks) then you look at the stats and try to find how you can mold the statistics into your argument. Ideally one would just look at the statistics without prejudice and figure out what you are seeing in the stats...then perhaps look at some film to verify or discredit your hypotheses. If you think Wilfork is more dominant than Dockett, thats fine. Its an opinion shared by most draftniks and probably most NFL scouts and GMs. You can rely on their opinions (a heavy argument) in conjunction with the small amount of film you've seen on the two players...but do not rely on complicated statistic constructions as its more or less like seeing Mother Mary in a bunch of windows...you see what you want to see.

You have to respect Boomer's opinion tho. He watches more film on each guy than you or I could and does this kind of thing professionally.

Two more things to add to keep in mind. Part of the reason I'm not high on Wilfork (and I'm a biiiiig Canes fan too...HATE the seminoles), is because of the weight thing. It was an issue a while ago when he was a part time player, it was an issue before the combine, he lost weight for the combine and the workouts, and now he's packed it right back on...according to the infamous pro football talk. I think he'll be like a Ted Washington type...he'll struggle with weight, end up a 2 down player at DT big force in run defense tying up the tackles but not truly dominant. He could on the other hand, be like a Tim Bowens. Who knows.

The second thing is, as stated in another thread, Phil Rivers went on radio and they asked who he's played against that is most ready for the NFL and he said without hesitation or doubt, Darnall Dockett. So you know Dockett gets into QBs heads if he has Rivers in awe of him. Dockett impressed people at the week of Senior Bowl practices, and he impressed me during the Senior Bowl game. I'm not sure why he's not considered by the crowd to be a better DT than where he's slated in the middle of round 2, to be completely honest.

ckparrothead
04-19-2004, 09:56 AM
BTW Boomer I wanted to ask you about that statistic for Shawn Andrews...the 70% of runs going behind him thing. Where did you get that statistic? I'm just curious, because recently Alex Marvez in today's article quoted the exact same stat and I was wondering if it came from a pretty common source of if its perhaps possible that Mr. Marvez was perusing the Fin Heaven boards saw that statistic in your draft central, then did a little research to verify or something of that nature.

caneproud117
04-19-2004, 10:40 AM
See the problem with your argument is that you have no idea how much film I watch, you took a stab in the dark and 'assumed' I watched less film than Boomer. Like I've stated before I went back and reviewed the film and have seen every fsu game and every miami game. I'm not that obsessive for other schools for I am for the both of them. I would dare to say I have watched more film than Boomer has on both of these guys. Now you can say you don't believe me and that's fine and to tell you the truth have respect for Boomer because of all the time he puts into this board. I don't have nearly as much time as he has to critic all the most talented players in the draft and review film on all of them, but I can tell you that I have done my homework on these two (plus 5 for Miami). Dockett is a real risky pick at 20 IMHO. I would venture to say that he's a risky pick at 30. Starks, Wilfork, Harris, and even Olshansky (who has tremendous upside) are more worthy of those top DT spots. If we had a second round pick however I wouldn't mind picking him up, but there's just more talented and multidimensional people at his position.

ckparrothead
04-19-2004, 10:53 AM
You're right I did assume you didn't watch every single UM game and every single FSU game scouring those two players in each respective game in order to evaluate them for the purposes of talking about them on message boards...but thats not an unreasonable assumption.

caneproud117
04-19-2004, 10:55 AM
I don't do that to talk about it with you guys, I watch the games because I enjoy seeing them and watching who will be good for my dolphins.

MarinoIsGod
04-19-2004, 11:03 AM
Boomer I congrulate you on you work, effort, opinions, and professionalisim. Thank You!

caneproud117
04-19-2004, 11:05 AM
I'm a huge fan of college recruiting and the NFL draft. I'm like a kid on Christmas trying to find out who's worthy of NFL U and who's worthy of the Dolphins' draft pick. This is for my own personal enjoyment knowing everything I can about the teams I love the most (went to school at FSU, but can't take the Cane out of me).

ckparrothead
04-20-2004, 11:37 AM
Boomer...the wait is killing me!

Boomer
04-20-2004, 11:52 AM
Be patient my friend. As soon as I do it, I'll get it up. I have my questions ready.

SMD1333
04-22-2004, 03:13 PM
I was wondering if anyone knows who the dolphins might draft

Muck
04-22-2004, 11:18 PM
An adult male in his early 20s.

P4E
04-23-2004, 09:38 PM
Ya never know, though. I remember the Chargers drafting Ryan Leaf.

Noodle Arm
04-23-2004, 10:00 PM
It's getting kind of late, I'm guessing we won't be seeing Boomers OLB, Safeties and CB lists??

P4E
04-23-2004, 11:10 PM
It's getting kind of late, I'm guessing we won't be seeing Boomers OLB, Safeties and CB lists??

Good to see the anticipation out there.:) Boomer wrote up the whole nine yards, and despite some delay on our end, we'll have them all up as soon as the pages are structured and formatted. Please stay tuned.

Muck
04-24-2004, 01:19 AM
Yes, Boomer got everything to us in plenty of time. It's just a matter of us (the staff) being extremely busy with work and life (as well as other facets of the site). In all honesty, there just haven't been enough hours in the day lately.

I'm going to try and bang out the final pages before I drop fast asleep here.

Muck
04-24-2004, 02:09 AM
OLBs are up. (http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/olb/)

Coolguy3
04-25-2004, 09:37 PM
Muck, did you message me via AIM???

Muck
04-25-2004, 10:24 PM
Not that I know of. I haven't been on AIM in months.

Somebody impersonating me again??

Coolguy3
04-26-2004, 12:26 AM
Apparently so. I assume it wasn't you due to the nature of the conversation demanding me to show my "package" or I'll be banned. I run the MB at DD and just assumed that's how they got a hold of me.

I saved the conversation for ****s and giggles.

Muck
04-26-2004, 09:01 AM
What was the SN (just out of curiosity). :tongue:

Anyway yes, there's a guy that tries to impersonate all the staff, both on other MBs and on IMs. Usually me and A.J. He usually goes around being nasty or racial. He uses my avatar and such. No biggie. He tries to get people to come here afterwards and "retaliate", which is good because they then see that we run a good ship and what they saw before was BS. So we get new members that way too. LOL.

And I rarely if ever get on AIM, MSN, Yahoo, etc. Not a chatter. So if anyone receives IMs from someone claiming to be me, you can be 99% sure it isn't me. :lol:

Coolguy3
04-26-2004, 09:51 AM
Ya, I'm no dummy. I have enough common sense to realize that a moderator/admin of a major Dolphin website isn't gonna IM other people to view their goods.

They have a website where you type in a sentence and it spits it back like how a 12 year girl would type on AOL. I swear that's how it was typing to me.

I believe the screenname was Cherokee4Parks4 or something very similar.

Anyways, take it easy.

Muck
04-27-2004, 12:36 AM
:woot: Someone's obsessed with me. I love it!! :lol:

ckparrothead
04-27-2004, 11:39 AM
Muck did Boomer ever submit CB rankings and writeups? I would very much like to see what he wrote on Will Poole.

Muck
04-27-2004, 12:35 PM
Yes he did. And while I STILL have not gotten a chance to finish the CBs (which he submitted in PLENTY of time), I did put up Will Poole's analysis on Sunday. :)

www.finheaven.com/seasonal/cb/cb1

TerryTate
04-28-2004, 02:14 AM
I got the same IMs from that clown

Phinzone
04-28-2004, 07:34 PM
uh oh..so some random impersonator now has a picture of my package? And I thought Muck and I had something special....

Muck
04-28-2004, 11:00 PM
And on that note.....the CBs are done. :tongue:

http://www.finheaven.com/seasonal/cb/

Mr.Murder
04-28-2004, 11:48 PM
Great thread Muck! Have been gone a while,this fan's mock had the Dolphins trade up in a 3 way that featured some mega cap relief moves for other teams and provided more QB depth to push camp into a firece 3 way battle for the number one and give you the depth to push any team at the number one spot as you take time to break the O line in.

Mr.Murder
04-28-2004, 11:55 PM
The trade didn't go, but the trade for Andrews didn't go either, when he was off the boards your GM did great to secure a big time OL with the ability to be a cornerstone.


The Boston deal has this fan scared off his initial preseason prediction of Miami might in the East. WIll the man's chemistry and lockeroom presence hurt the team?

Mr.Murder
04-29-2004, 12:00 AM
Anyways muck I'll post the Murder Mock in the mock draft forums, it had two big reaches and a three way trade with the phins which didn't pan...otherwise it nailed some players in the slot they went even when teams changed. And it nailed some of the suprise players (Vilma and DJ Williams).

Muck
04-29-2004, 12:06 AM
Thanks dude.

And a big thanks to Boomer for all the knowledge and hard work.

P4E
04-29-2004, 12:54 AM
Seconded and more.:)

Mr.Murder
05-03-2004, 09:39 PM
Bua , by the way was in the top 5 safeties on my boards, the Miami FS Taylor was the best outright, and Bua was a midround value who played some OLB as well so he fits a nickle D and is an emergency LB. A great player who has a knck for bing in position all of the time.