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Dolfan984
05-15-2002, 01:28 AM
I was looking at Travis Henry's stats. Found something very interesting.

In 213 carries, Henry had 5 fumbles. 1 fumble every 42.6 carries.

In 313 carries, Williams had 6 fumbles. 1 fumble every 52.2 carries.

Henry's long was 25. Williams' was 46.

We all know Henry had a 3.4 ypc vs Williams 4.0 ypc.

Most Saints fans admit that their O-Line was overrated, and was a pass blocking O-Line in actuality.

So, Bills fans. Before you diss Williams. Look at the pure hard facts.

Cranx
05-15-2002, 03:46 AM
984, I think you'd have more fun posting this over in the "smack talk" room. I just rediscovered it yesterday and found a plethora of uneducated Jills fans in need of some solid stats to shut them up. Come on over and take a dip in the wild side. :lol:

Muck
05-15-2002, 09:47 AM
It's tough for me to root against Henry in the offseason. I watched him in high school. So I kinda take pride in the local FL boys. He was a pretty awesome RB at Frostproof. Had over 4000 yards rushing his senior year alone. Same with Edgerrin James and Fred Taylor. Faced them every year in every sport. So I take pride when they do well.

Billsfan
05-15-2002, 11:06 AM
No argument here, Williams is WAY better then Henry. Any Bills fans that deny that are blinded by loyalty! (It would be like saying Chambers is better then Moulds….ha ha) I’m nervous about Henry. His numbers were not great. But I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He was a rookie, on a bad team, with a terrible O-line. I’m willing to give him one more shot.

Please give me your opinion on our possible alternatives:

Shawn Bryson – Showed signs last year, but injuries have killed him
Sammy Morris – I don’t think he’ll be able to make the next step
Curtis Alexander – Had a great Pre-season last year but was placed on the practice squad, Currently leads NFL Europe in rushing and all - purpose yards. Also, he was a former Dolphin.
Jamal Anderson??? – His agent informed the media that the Bills were on the top of his wish list after June 1st, Great RB riddled with Injuries. If signed for Vet Min. I think we take a chance!

Any thoughts???

dolfan06
05-15-2002, 11:25 AM
. But I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He was a rookie, on a bad team, with a terrible O-line. I’m willing to give him one more shot. he wasn't really a rook last year, but he had no supporting cast on offense, the o-line was tore up with injuries, with a little blocking, lets see what he can do!

Sniper
05-15-2002, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Dolfan984
I was looking at Travis Henry's stats. Found something very interesting.

In 213 carries, Henry had 5 fumbles. 1 fumble every 42.6 carries.

In 313 carries, Williams had 6 fumbles. 1 fumble every 52.2 carries.

Henry's long was 25. Williams' was 46.

We all know Henry had a 3.4 ypc vs Williams 4.0 ypc.

Most Saints fans admit that their O-Line was overrated, and was a pass blocking O-Line in actuality.

So, Bills fans. Before you diss Williams. Look at the pure hard facts.

Nobody can dispute those stats and I think most would agree that Henry is still a question mark. You need to keep in mind though that NO running back in the NFL would have had success with the OL we had last year. With an improved OL, maybe we will see what Henry can do, IF he is our feature back this season. That's a big IF... there are rumors of Jamal Anderson and perhaps Deuce Staley being in a Bills' uniform.

Also it is apparant that the 'Aints weren't too high on the oft-injured Williams which is why they drafted McCallister. IMHO the 'Aints got the better end of the deal with you guys.

Bodzilla29
05-15-2002, 01:57 PM
"Also it is apparant that the 'Aints weren't too high on the oft-injured Williams which is why they drafted McCallister. IMHO the 'Aints got the better end of the deal with you guys."

What's funny about that statement is that The Saints weren't happy with 'oft-injured' Williams, when in fact McAllister was a walking injury at Ole Miss. McAllister has WAY more durability questions then Williams, and are around the same age, and RW has a better contract(lower $ figure) and just as many years remaining.

Now I ask you, who got the better end of the deal?

Sniper
05-15-2002, 02:07 PM
I still say the 'Aints got the better end of the deal. They drafted McAllister for a reason, and believe me it wasn't, to do interviews with his helmet still on or to prance around in a wedding dress. Around the time of that draft, they pretty much admitted they didn't want Williams. With his peculiarities, he was too much of a distraction for their team. I'm not saying you guys didn't get a good back, I'm just saying you guys paid too much for Williams. IMHO you guys shouldn't have gone more than a 2nd rounder for him.

Cranx
05-15-2002, 02:55 PM
Snipe, the Saints are putting their hopes in a back who is much smaller and has never put up a full season's worth of starts at any level- McCallister is the epitome of injury prone.

To call RW oft-injured is simply ignorant since the guy has had one major injury in his career (a broken leg) and has been relatively healthy the rest of his career. I'll take a nice, friendly wager that Ricky, not Deuce, will be in the Pro Bowl this year. What say yee?

Sniper
05-15-2002, 03:08 PM
Expo,

Let me explain by what I mean by "oft-injured' and I think you will see my point. Actually RWs chance for injury in Miami is a lot less than it was in NO. The reason is Pro Player stadium has real grass, not artificial turf like at NO. Foot injuries on someone as big and fast as RW and artificial turf just don't mix. That is an injury waiting to happen. McAllister being a smaller back, in theory, should have less of a chance for injury on artificial turf.

My take on RW and the fish is this:

He is going to be a dangerous back in the AFC East, especially under Norv Turner's offense. Norv Turner sucked as a head coach, but I think he is one of the best OC around. You guys will have a better running game this year, and I see it being a good power running game. The way I see it is a suspect OL, is your guys' weak link. If there is something that will handicap your running game, it will be the OL.

I think Buffalo is going to need to pick up a good DT this year, to contend with you guys. Word is we are looking at Jim Flanigan.

Sniper
05-15-2002, 03:15 PM
Why would I take that bet? Deuce is a better fit at NO than RW was. RW physically is the better back. McAllister is the better team fit and a decent back.

Injury concern AND being a poor team player are what got RW traded. He has more talent than MCAllister, and should have a better shot going to the Pro Bowl. IF he does become a Pro Bowler and you guys win the SB, then the trade was worth it.

Cranx
05-15-2002, 03:22 PM
I do agree that, at this point, and on paper, the 'Fins line is somewhat suspect. When you actually take a second to look at the line you will clearly see that there is a tremendous amount of talent sitting there, but there are also quite a few issues- namely weight and injury- that rest on those guy's shoulders as well.

I put little or no stock in the mini-camp workouts since we've all seen our share of mini-camp superstars (John Avery) who have turned out to be complete busts on the field. I do, however, like to look at past stats as an indicator of what future production may be and this line has the stats.

If this line can remain healthy then it should be one of the better (notice I didn't say best) units in the NFL. If we have to dig deep into the depth chart again then I believe we're going to be in trouble in the post season yet again.

As far as the Bills picking up a DE to contend with the 'Fins, I just don't see a lot of talent out there right now. Even Brunett and Sinclaire, who the 'Fins are currently looking at, don't really ring my bell. Flanigan's OK, but he's probably not going to be anyone's answer. We shall see who the true gladiators are when the pads go on though.

Sniper
05-15-2002, 03:30 PM
Clearly DL is the Bill's biggest weakness right now unless we get Flanigan or Sam Adams. You guys will probably rack up the yards again unless something changes. I think we would take Sam Adams if he wasn't asking so much. Still this is a rebuilding year for us... I'm keeping my expectations at that level as well.

Sniper
05-15-2002, 03:35 PM
One prediction I will make. IF the Bills address the DL by signing Flanigan or Adams and adress the RB by signing Anderson or Staley....

Fins and Bills will be playing for the AFC Championship and the loser will get a wild card.

Cranx
05-15-2002, 03:50 PM
It looks as though Adams will be on his way to play for the for 'Skins. He's overrated anyway though and should be exposed in Washington.

iceblizzard69
05-15-2002, 04:18 PM
McAlister is the next Fred Taylor. McAlister has a lot of talent )not as much as Taylor) but they are both always injured.

IceStorm
05-15-2002, 05:19 PM
We can compare stats about person to person everytime. Someone will always come out on top. What does it all mean? Not to much in the upcoming year.

I'm a Dolphin fan alright, but until I see Ricky Williams put up the same averages (as he has done in the past) with the Miami Dolphins against AFC East teams, then I'll be happy. But until then I'm not going to say who is better. Williams is a good runner, but he's never played with our team in our conference.

BUT I REALLY HOPE HE WHIPS SOME ASS. hehe

MOULDSROCKS
05-15-2002, 07:18 PM
Henry was a rookie

Williams wasn't

Henry ran behind Conaty, Hulsey and Farris

Williams ran behind Roaf, Turley, Naeole... basically a great OL

Henry was injured for most of the season (played hurt)

Williams wasn't

Williams wasn't wanted in NO and was traded b/c he couldn't perform as well as they wanted

Henry is still our starter

How does Williams' fumbles compare to Faulk?

Henry's rushing stats were not good because he did not start in week 1 and he got hurt towards the end of the season and he had a ****ty OL... but he was on pace for 1,000+ yds.

MOULDSROCKS
05-15-2002, 07:19 PM
don't bash or rookie RB b/c he wasn't as good as your veteran PB RB with a better OL.... that's just dumb

Dolfan984
05-15-2002, 07:28 PM
I didn't bash Henry. I said that you shouldn't bash Williams. He's a better back than Henry.

The Saints O-Line was not a very good run blocking O-Line. They were pass blockers.

MOULDSROCKS
05-15-2002, 07:33 PM
bull****! RBing is KT' s specialty... he loves to pancake guys and always loves to run it! so does Naeole!

iceblizzard69
05-15-2002, 07:38 PM
MOULDSROCKS is on crack since he believes Henry is as good as Williams. He doesn't deserve a response because he is such a moron.

MOULDSROCKS
05-15-2002, 07:41 PM
i didn't say that... i said RW is better and it isn't fair to compare a PBer and veteran RB with the best OL(last year) to a rookie RB who was injured all year... didn't finish the season... and had a ****TY OL!!!!

MOULDSROCKS
05-15-2002, 07:42 PM
i guess hooked on phonics didn't work 4 u....

iceblizzard69
05-15-2002, 07:42 PM
Williams didn't have Roaf for a good part of the season, and Naeole sucks. The only good linemen on that team at the end of last year was Turley.

MOULDSROCKS
05-15-2002, 07:46 PM
and all we had when TH got hurt was Ruben Brown a great PBer and above average RBer... our OL was healthy last year after he got hurt and they still sucked!

Muck
05-16-2002, 01:52 AM
It's true. The Saints OL SUCKED big time last year. They were highly overrated. It wasn't that Ricky wasn't good enough for the Saints. He accounted for nearly 34% of their total offense last year. And that's included the last 4 games of the season when they totally went away from him.

There are two reasons why Ricky got traded. First, Haslett wants this to be AARON BROOKS' team. They want the offense to go through him, not the RB.

Second, Ricky Williams WAS NOT Haslett or Mueller's boy. They didn't draft him. When Haslett came aboard, he dreamed of a more wide-open offense. Not the grind it/pound the ball style that Ditka dreamed of and that Ricky is built for. So the offense wasn't designed to take full advantage of Ricky's talents.

Ricky was set up to fail in NO. No two ways about it. From the day he was drafted, the pressure was enormous. He never fit in with his teammates or the city. But that had nothing no bearing on the trade IMO. If Ricky was more of a Deuce McCallister-type speed back, then he'd still be a Saint.

Sniper
05-16-2002, 12:27 PM
I know you were bidding against other teams, but in all seriousness, do you guys feel that you gave up too much for Williams? I think a 1st or 2nd rounder would have been more than enough. IMHO the price you guys paid will only be justified, if he wins you the SB. If you were the only team bidding for him, what is the most you should have given up?

iceblizzard69
05-16-2002, 04:18 PM
I think we did give a fair amount, and look who they got. Is Charles Grant equal to RW?? And also, they will probably only get a second rounder this year. It really depends on how the players they took with the picks pan out, but I think it works for both teams. They can start McAlister, and we get RW and only give away picks, people who might not be so good in a few years.

phins054
05-16-2002, 06:49 PM
I know you were bidding against other teams, but in all seriousness, do you guys feel that you gave up too much for Williams? I think a 1st or 2nd rounder would have been more than enough. IMHO the price you guys paid will only be justified, if he wins you the SB. If you were the only team bidding for him, what is the most you should have given up?

No we did NOT pay to steep a price for Ricky considering that we did not give up any players. We swapped picks in the 3rd...no big deal and they will only get our 1st rounder if Ricky runs for 1500yds...Well gee that would put him pretty high on the league charts and put him in the pro bowl...as well as us in the playoffs(should)...Do you feel you gave up too much for Drew???:goof: Probably not...This was a good trade for us, and if the Saints feel they got a good deal the good for them(Considering what they gave UP for him:goof: ) But i think we will be a better team with Ricky...he is not our saviour...but he was one of the missing pieces.

Bodzilla29
05-16-2002, 10:06 PM
OH MY GOD.....MOULDSROCKS.....no you didn't.....

Did I see you post that Kyle Turley's specialty is run blocking??? Please no, he is decent at best at run blocking. Ask any Saints' fan, Email any columnist, and they will tell you he is a passblocker who plays with a high level of energy and emaotion, but he is in NO WAY A SPECIAL RUN BLOCKER!!!!

Please check some sources and get back at me, seriously.

MOULDSROCKS
05-16-2002, 10:40 PM
he is better than Roaf... and most other tackles at run-blocking and he says that is what he loves to do and what he does best at.... so i will belive him (how does some gay harvard **** columnist know more about KT than KT does?)

Bodzilla29
05-16-2002, 11:24 PM
By watching him play man....he is decent at RB, no matter what he says. I can say i run the 40 in 4.2, but i really can't....

Go to saintsreport.com and ask the fans WHO WATCH him play every game and know him like you would know a Bills player. They will tell you the truth. Roaf was injured all year, and had the stigma of having to take care of Joe Horn's baby....lol what a soap opera New Orleans is!