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View Full Version : I just saw the decapitation video on a website/ESPN's Miami Dolphins Forum's link



Scrap
05-12-2004, 09:32 PM
:( I have to admit that I found it rather disturbing.

Muck
05-12-2004, 11:13 PM
I think I'm finally maturing.......I've had no desire to see it.

I hope those cowards rot in hell sooner than later.

Clumpy
05-12-2004, 11:23 PM
No interest in seeing it :(

Thundercracker
05-12-2004, 11:37 PM
I made the mistake of watching it. Kind of made me queezy.

Dajesus
05-13-2004, 12:12 AM
I could never watch that. I am curious though. I haven't heard anything about it. What is the story?

Dajesus
05-13-2004, 12:15 AM
Nevermind...Ugh

Muck
05-13-2004, 02:09 AM
I've seen the video and audio up to the point where the guy pulls the big knife out of his shirt (the point where they stop short).

At that point, it's like you're seeing grusome death frozen in time, before the fact. Like a supernatural force that isn't supposed to be seen.

I don't know. It's just fascinating to me. Not the impending brutal murder part. Just the freeze frame where the guy is pulling out the knife. It's one of those "a picture says a thousand words" moments that I can't stop looking at and thinking about.

Still, rot in hell you warped cowards. :fire:

WestPhish
05-13-2004, 08:42 AM
The video was gruesome. I can't stop thinking about it, and still very disturbed by it.

zonk39
05-13-2004, 08:53 AM
I think I'm finally maturing.......I've had no desire to see it.

I hope those cowards rot in hell sooner than later.


I watched it yesterday, and was sicken by it. I watched it because I want to feel as much vile and disgust for all the things the cowardly MF's have done. I say we drop a big N-bomb on them and worry about the good ones later (the few).

This video has really put this war in a whole new light. Forget about being PC, we need handle our business and get our kids back.

Muck
05-13-2004, 09:09 AM
In that case I may check it out after all.

WestPhish
05-13-2004, 09:19 AM
For those that want to see this here is a link:

http://www.rfsafe.com/tributes/1Nick_Berg.wmv

Please be adviced of the graphic nature of this video.

Mile High Fin
05-13-2004, 11:35 AM
I have no desire to watch it...

WharfRat
05-13-2004, 11:47 AM
I think I'm finally maturing.......I've had no desire to see it.

I hope those cowards rot in hell sooner than later.


My thoughts exactly. I feel that by watching, I'm only serving thier agenda.
I will not allow them to terrorize me.

Only cowards feel the need to cover thier heads/faces... and at the same time they proffess "justice".

I can think of no lower form of life than a hypocritical coward, who revels in taking the life of a non-combatant.

Prime Time
05-13-2004, 03:18 PM
My stepdad has been interested in watching it. Not me though. I am kind of curious, but I think I could live without seeing it. It sounds very nasty and it is no movie with fake artificial stuff, It is a real person, who was there in front of a camera and got their head cut off. Real pain, not some fake terror in the face you see in movies. Rot in hell you *******s!

WestPhish
05-13-2004, 03:56 PM
Watching it will provide us with a grim reminder of what we are dealing with. It is a wake up call for some that have fallen into complacency after the outrage of 9/11

Scrap
05-13-2004, 04:43 PM
[QUOTE=zonk39]I watched it because I want to feel as much vile and disgust for all the things the cowardly MF's have done. QUOTE]

That's why I watched it too.

I don't feel as if I'm giving in to the terrorist agenda by watching the video. It doesn't make me fear them. It makes me want to kick the $hit out of them.

The sad truth.... things like this bother us, but unless it happens someone we know or love, we all tend to forget about it as time goes on. 9-11 is a prime example. We may not have forgotten it, but people aren't as patriotic as they were on 9-12.

Dajesus
05-13-2004, 04:51 PM
I had been in out of the hospital this week, so I really didn't get the same coverage most of you have had. I AM NOT saying I condone this, two wrongs never make a right, but what is everyone's response to the picture of Iraqius in the prisons? As much as I think they started this so, they deserve what they get, it is hard not to think what you would do if your countrymen, and family were being beaten how you would respond. I know if someone hurt my family or anyone I cared about their would be hell to pay. Quoting Marcelis from pulp fiction "I am going to bring in some hard hitting niggas, and go midevil on their ***."

What was the victims' role over there? Why was he in Iraq?

ohall
05-13-2004, 04:55 PM
Watching it will provide us with a grim reminder of what we are dealing with. It is a wake up call for some that have fallen into complacency after the outrage of 9/11

Haven't watched it, and I wont watch it. I don't need any reminders. 3,000 innocent ppl were killed on 9/11/2001 and until terrorism is dead, where ever it is I don't need to be reminded why we are at war.

I'm surprised so many of you need something like this refocus as to why we are in Iraq. There's a saying foreign friends of mine use when describing Americans in general, they have very short memories. Apparently my friends are correct.

Oliver...

Scrap
05-13-2004, 04:58 PM
I doubt you are waving the flag like you were onb 9-12

DolFinatic718
05-13-2004, 05:01 PM
For anyone interested they are showing the Iraqi decapitaion video on the Miami message board. :shakeno:

Dol-Fan Dupree
05-13-2004, 05:04 PM
you mean they are running it on the boards or have a link?

DolFinatic718
05-13-2004, 05:05 PM
http://boards.espn.go.com/cgi/nfl/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=nfl_mia&id=381119&move=firstThread

links

Dol-Fan Dupree
05-13-2004, 05:06 PM
as long as they aren't surprising anyone

DolFinatic718
05-13-2004, 05:08 PM
Kind of makes you put things in perspective...there are more important things then Sports...And maybe some of us shouldn't take it so seriously...Its a game where the athletes are supposed to have fun...not life or death.

Dol-Fan Dupree
05-13-2004, 05:16 PM
well myself, I realize that and come here to talk about sports to get away stuff like that a few hours a day.

bigmiamifan
05-13-2004, 05:19 PM
I don't think I want to see them and I don't think they need to be posted in a public sports forum like that. Why does anyone need to see such sickness and disgusting lack of human decency? I would rather show respect for his life and his family and not have that vile disgusting & deplorable act in my memory.

Phinfan31
05-13-2004, 05:25 PM
thast the sickest thing ive ever seen. I hope all those sick ****s burn in hell.

Jimmy James
05-13-2004, 05:26 PM
bmf,

You're not alone. I have a friend whose curiosity got the best of him. He spent the rest of the day hating himself for watching it. The one thing he shared with me is that he was amazed at how long it all took. Even that was almost more than I wanted to know. I love the fake violence as much as the next time, but there is a line that I'm not going to cross.

TerryTate
05-13-2004, 05:30 PM
my eyes welled up when i saw that :(

I said to myself that I wouldnt watch that video, now its time for me to use a corny slogan... "Curiosity killed the cat", my curiosity got the best of me there....

:eek2: :cry:

:patriot:

Bagga-Viagra
05-13-2004, 05:31 PM
I think people should really try to watch it. It will give you a good example of the people that we're dealing with over there. It was people like that that we had in that Abu Ghraib prison. Think about that.

phinman1
05-13-2004, 05:31 PM
While we are busy apologizing to our enemy, and engaging in self flagellation, for the treatment of POW's, they are cutting the heads off our people and relishing it.

TerryTate
05-13-2004, 05:33 PM
I think people should really try to watch it. It will give you a good example of the people that we're dealing with over there. It was people like that that we had in that Abu Ghraib prison. Think about that.

You are right to an extent, however not each and every prisoner in there has the mindset that those terrorists had...Some of those prisoners probably had yet to be tried in a war tribunal, some that were embarrased were probably innocent or did something not worth being in jail for...

Jimmy James
05-13-2004, 05:34 PM
Bagga-Viagra and phinman1,

Tell that to John McCain. We should be making those apologies, and that convention means as much to our troops as it does to anyone. I didn't want to go here until we went to the political forum, but the gloves are off now.

DolFinatic718
05-13-2004, 05:46 PM
Those people in the video's were not POW's. They were regular civilians like you or me kidnapped by Iraqi terrorist. 2 of them were said to be contracters out to build things in Iraq.

While on one hand I think that is the most gruesome negligent act towards human life and wouldn't recommend it for everyone to see, I do think it is something anyone who feels they are ready to see should view it.

I dont want to make this a comparison but when I saw "Passion Of Christ" I thought that was pretty gruesome and didn't recommend it to anyone, but still people seen it in record numbers. It just enlightens you in a wierd kind of way.

t2thejz
05-13-2004, 05:58 PM
Man I dont have the heart to watch that. It would put me in a bad mood all day and I would have a horriable feeling all week in the pit of my stomach. Its tempting but no way am I watching it. I havent even seen the video of where it stops short but just seeing his face in pictures puts me in a bad mood

TerryTate
05-13-2004, 06:03 PM
Those people in the video's were not POW's. They were regular civilians like you or me kidnapped by Iraqi terrorist. 2 of them were said to be contracters out to build things in Iraq.

While on one hand I think that is the most gruesome negligent act towards human life and wouldn't recommend it for everyone to see, I do think it is something anyone who feels they are ready to see should view it.

I dont want to make this a comparison but when I saw "Passion Of Christ" I thought that was pretty gruesome and didn't recommend it to anyone, but still people seen it in record numbers. It just enlightens you in a wierd kind of way.

Would you of seen the movie if our society allowed a guy that wanted to "really" play jesus and get prodded and nailed to this cross, sacrificing his life to get on screen and relay the same point that the filmmakers did with the special effects? I doubt it...

t2thejz
05-13-2004, 06:08 PM
I have to admit its tough fighting curousity. Ive clicked on it twice then xed out. Im not watching it though. I know that I would regret it.

wonderl33t
05-13-2004, 06:08 PM
I really don't want to watch it

34RWilliams
05-13-2004, 06:11 PM
Just by watching that lit a flame of malice towards those people who did this inhuman act. Makes me sick to see a world that has those freaks in it

34RWilliams
05-13-2004, 06:20 PM
I never have any hate towards any one because its not in my nature but by seeing this i felt like i wanted take them out and beat them until the had stop breathing completely. Im not afriad of the terroist by seeing the video, its just making me ready to take my call to iraqi if im needed

Dajesus
05-13-2004, 06:25 PM
While we are busy apologizing to our enemy, and engaging in self flagellation, for the treatment of POW's, they are cutting the heads off our people and relishing it.

Agreed, but if you stoop to their level then where is the differince. I am kind of torn on the subject. I think of the Movie "Missisippi Burning" when the bald guy forget his name said "to catch a rat you have to go in to the sewer" or something to that affect, and while I agree with that to some degree, if we thought like them, and acted like them we wouldn't have people like Patt Tilman, and all those faceless hero's fighting for our right to share our opinions on something as trivial as a sports message board. Either way I won't get caught up in how to win this war, just hope with every ounce of my being that this can end soon, and our brothers and sisters can come home and start moving on from all this ugliness.

Scrap
05-13-2004, 06:43 PM
Now I'm gonna throw in a twist:

F---ed up **** like this happens every day in our own country. Okay, so heads don't always get cut off, but murders of all sorts happen every day. Are the murderers who abduct kids, molest them, and leave them dead in the woods any more innocent than these terrorists? I think not.All the anger any of you may have felt after seeing that video should be equally felt towards the jack a$$e$ in our own country. The difference? These f---ers put a video on the web. Serial killers, child molesters, etc... are the people you could be associating with every day.(The mail man, your car salesman)

WestPhish
05-13-2004, 06:43 PM
Watching it or not is somebody's personal choice. After watching it, felt horrible all of that day, and even at night before going to sleep. I don't however regret having watched it. That video is a bitter pill of reality, sometimes you have to see things for yourself to understand them fully. The thing that bothers me the most is how people can use god's name to justify whatever they want to do. If you are wondering what these murderers where chanting while slicing poor Nick Berg's head off was "God is Great". I think if there is a hell, these butchers have just bought themselves a one way ticket..... :fire:

Chisel Monkey
05-13-2004, 07:07 PM
I would not dignify the action by watching it. That's my stance. I'm not condeming those who have watched it or want to. It strenghtens my resolve and belief in what our Nation is trying to do. We face an uphill battle but it's one we can win. It won't be easy. But we will Win.

ohall
05-13-2004, 07:13 PM
I doubt you are waving the flag like you were onb 9-12

Even harder, and why wouldn't I?

Oliver...

ohall
05-13-2004, 07:16 PM
Those people in the video's were not POW's. They were regular civilians like you or me kidnapped by Iraqi terrorist. 2 of them were said to be contracters out to build things in Iraq.


I don't think that's true, they were in cell block 1A and 1B, and apparently those are the hard core ppl in Iraq.

There may have been things done to ppl outside of those cell blocks, but the main focus is on the ppl from cell block 1A and 1B.

Oliver...

ohall
05-13-2004, 07:18 PM
Now I'm gonna throw in a twist:

F---ed up **** like this happens every day in our own country. Okay, so heads don't always get cut off, but murders of all sorts happen every day. Are the murderers who abduct kids, molest them, and leave them dead in the woods any more innocent than these terrorists? I think not.All the anger any of you may have felt after seeing that video should be equally felt towards the jack a$$e$ in our own country. The difference? These f---ers put a video on the web. Serial killers, child molesters, etc... are the people you could be associating with every day.(The mail man, your car salesman)

They did it in the name of God. I think to most ppl that is the most offensive thing in this. I doubt things like that happen in this country on a daily basis.

Oliver...

Al13
05-13-2004, 07:23 PM
i just saw it and i really don´t know what to say, it´s just to much for me right now, this poor guy had no idea what was coming and maybe he even thought that he is just a pow and somehow they will treat him right, unbelievable, i have tears in my eyes right now and i think i need a break, see ya

ohall
05-13-2004, 07:32 PM
i just saw it and i really don´t know what to say, it´s just to much for me right now, this poor guy had no idea what was coming and maybe he even thought that he is just a pow and somehow they will treat him right, unbelievable, i have tears in my eyes right now and i think i need a break, see ya

I think he knew what was coming. They weren't going to let a Jew go. It's the last thing they would have done, and that's why they said God is good before they killed him.

It's the reason they killed Daniel Perl some 2-years ago. Wasn't Daniel Perl also beheaded?

Oliver...

Al13
05-13-2004, 08:08 PM
i dont know oliver, he was sitting pretty quiet on the floor, if you know that you gonna get killed in the next minutes, i think you kind of try to do something about it

Coral Reefer
05-13-2004, 08:29 PM
While we are busy apologizing to our enemy, and engaging in self flagellation, for the treatment of POW's, they are cutting the heads off our people and relishing it.

Actually it was after the POW abuse.
Keep in mind that while what they did was absolutely vile and not equal AT ALL with what we did to the POW prisoners. What we did to the POW's is what instigated this. We were supposed to be the better nation. The one fighting for right and we damaged reputations greatly in what we did.
Not to mention how STUPID it was for the soldiers to tape the hazing! Unreal.
Nonetheless we helped give these idiots an excuse which justified their actions in their warped little minds.

Dajesus
05-13-2004, 08:41 PM
They did it in the name of God. I think to most ppl that is the most offensive thing in this. I doubt things like that happen in this country on a daily basis.

Oliver...

That isn't what is offensive to me. Some of the worst wars in the history of the world were in the name of god. About 75% of all lunatics in the history of the world justified their horrible doing by saying that is was in the name of God. From Bin Laden to Hitler, from England to Africa, from the Jews to the Christians, to the Muslims. Hell one of the reasons our great country was founded was so people could have freedom in what god they beleaved in. Argueably the ugliest thing in America's past, slavery, was justified in the name of god. The KKK and the skin heads are still around to this day, and they justify what they beleave in through the name of god.

ohall
05-13-2004, 09:10 PM
Actually it was after the POW abuse.
Keep in mind that while what they did was absolutely vile and not equal AT ALL with what we did to the POW prisoners. What we did to the POW's is what instigated this. We were supposed to be the better nation. The one fighting for right and we damaged reputations greatly in what we did.
Not to mention how STUPID it was for the soldiers to tape the hazing! Unreal.
Nonetheless we helped give these idiots an excuse which justified their actions in their warped little minds.

Really?

Then why did they kill those 4 Americans, burn them alive, and them hang them and dismember them before the jail controversy hit?

Sorry this has nothing to do with what took place in the jails. They only said it was so they can continue to splinter support in this country for the war against terrorism in Iraq. It worked in France, and it worked in Spain.

When you hear the terrorist repeating some of the things our liberal Senators and Congressmen say the very next day you understand the terrorist are doing their best to win their war against America thru the American press. That's how we lost the Vietnam war.

Oliver...

Scrap
05-13-2004, 09:36 PM
They did it in the name of God. I think to most ppl that is the most offensive thing in this. I doubt things like that happen in this country on a daily basis.

Oliver...
In the name of god or not, murder is murder. I'm sure some people are killed in worse ways than he was killed, and I'm sure it happens in this country.



I'm sure almost anyone who I had asked would have said they are even more patriotic than they were on 9-12. :rolleyes: I think it's apparent that people have stopped waving their flags as much as they were on that day though. Many people are patriotic while watching CNN, and then they change the channel, and forget about it.

ohall
05-13-2004, 09:39 PM
In the name of god or not, murder is murder. I'm sure some people are killed in worse ways than he was killed, and I'm sure it happens in this country.



I'm sure almost anyone who I had asked would have said they are even more patriotic than they were on 9-12. :rolleyes: I think it's apparent that people have stopped waving their flags as much as they were on that day though. Many people are patriotic while watching CNN, and then they change the channel, and forget about it.

I'm not other ppl, I have a very long memory when it comes to when I have been wronged. All Americans were wronged on 9/11. I agree with you, most Americans have a very short memory, and only care about today and the previous day. As I said I'm NOT with that. I have my flag waving loud and proud outside my house right now, and it didn't go up on 9/11 or on 9/12. Where I live the flag lives, it's always been that way since I was a child, it's how I was raised. Being born in another country and then living in America tends to help you understand just how good we have it here.

Oliver...

Muck
05-13-2004, 10:26 PM
As much as I think they started this so, they deserve what they get, it is hard not to think what you would do if your countrymen, and family were being beaten how you would respond.

Remember when the war first began. Remember how those jackasses were posing next to the bodies of our dead soldiers....grinning and giving the thumbs up??

That needs to be brought back to the forefront. This isn't retaliation. They started this thing (humiliating live prisoners and desecrating dead ones) long ago. And now that something we did finally came out, they used it as an excuse.

Simply put, they're subhuman. And they have the rational of a spoiled child (in a matter of speaking). Any excuse to justify their warped agenda.

Muck
05-13-2004, 10:27 PM
Now that the link is there to view.....I'm almost afraid to click on it. Still don't think I'll watch it. I've had a tough day. Don't need to get worked up or emotional.

WharfRat
05-13-2004, 11:13 PM
Remember when the war first began. Remember how those jackasses were posing next to the bodies of our dead soldiers....grinning and giving the thumbs up??

That needs to be brought back to the forefront. This isn't retaliation. They started this thing (humiliating live prisoners and desecrating dead ones) long ago. And now that something we did finally came out, they used it as an excuse.

Simply put, they're subhuman. And they have the rational of a spoiled child (in a matter of speaking). Any excuse to justify their warped agenda.


Exactly.

Muck
05-13-2004, 11:15 PM
For anyone interested they are showing the Iraqi decapitaion video on the Miami message board. :shakeno:

Why did you post this in the main forum??

If figured a NY fan would know better. ;) :jk:

ohall
05-13-2004, 11:21 PM
Now that the link is there to view.....I'm almost afraid to click on it. Still don't think I'll watch it. I've had a tough day. Don't need to get worked up or emotional.

Don't do it Muck, I think like me it would bother you for some time. I get very annoyed when they even show a small non violent clip of it on TV.

Oliver...

Dajesus
05-13-2004, 11:56 PM
Remember when the war first began. Remember how those jackasses were posing next to the bodies of our dead soldiers....grinning and giving the thumbs up??

That needs to be brought back to the forefront. This isn't retaliation. They started this thing (humiliating live prisoners and desecrating dead ones) long ago. And now that something we did finally came out, they used it as an excuse.

Simply put, they're subhuman. And they have the rational of a spoiled child (in a matter of speaking). Any excuse to justify their warped agenda.

I agree with everything you said, except the subhuman part. Alot of them yes I would agree with, but not everyone there were terrorists or had a say in the events that took place over the past few years. Much like Nazi Germany some of these people have no choice, it is kill or be killed. We could never have any idea what that means. It is just a sad sad time, and I just hope we don't degrade ourselves to take the same actions as those that we are fighting because that trivializes the great names of those that are fighting for freedom.

Coral Reefer
05-14-2004, 12:44 AM
Now that the link is there to view.....I'm almost afraid to click on it. Still don't think I'll watch it. I've had a tough day. Don't need to get worked up or emotional.


I don't know how any of you could watch it.
I could never get myself to rent any of those faces of death videos either.
It's a sad world.
You've got morons who have been fighting in the name of God for thousands of years. You can't win against that type of mentality.

Coral Reefer
05-14-2004, 12:52 AM
Really?

Then why did they kill those 4 Americans, burn them alive, and them hang them and dismember them before the jail controversy hit?

Sorry this has nothing to do with what took place in the jails. They only said it was so they can continue to splinter support in this country for the war against terrorism in Iraq. It worked in France, and it worked in Spain.

When you hear the terrorist repeating some of the things our liberal Senators and Congressmen say the very next day you understand the terrorist are doing their best to win their war against America thru the American press. That's how we lost the Vietnam war.

Oliver...


Calm down Oliver.
What you just said is what I was saying.
What happened in the jails gave them another way to justify to their people what they did. It was another way to villify us which we gave them on a silver platter.
I in no way WHATSOEVER was saying what we did justified what they did. :eek:
It is simply dissapointing that we gave them that amunition to use is all I was pointing out. We should know better than to let what happen in the jails happen especially when more than half of this war is trying to convince the Iraqi people that we are in fact the good guys watching out for them.
Kinda hard to sell that now that they've seen us hazing their people on tv like frat boys. We opened ourselves up with that and it will have a very detrimental effect on our ability to protect our troops and any more americans from these types of acts. When you are fighting lunatics you have to cover all your bases.

Muck
05-14-2004, 01:11 AM
I don't know how any of you could watch it.
I could never get myself to rent any of those faces of death videos either.


I rented the first one and for some reason, I decided that breakfast was the best time to view it. :smackhead Soon as I saw the first murder, I realized what I'd rented.

Never again.

ohall
05-14-2004, 01:52 AM
Calm down Oliver.
What you just said is what I was saying.
What happened in the jails gave them another way to justify to their people what they did. It was another way to villify us which we gave them on a silver platter.
I in no way WHATSOEVER was saying what we did justified what they did. :eek:
It is simply dissapointing that we gave them that amunition to use is all I was pointing out. We should know better than to let what happen in the jails happen especially when more than half of this war is trying to convince the Iraqi people that we are in fact the good guys watching out for them.
Kinda hard to sell that now that they've seen us hazing their people on tv like frat boys. We opened ourselves up with that and it will have a very detrimental effect on our ability to protect our troops and any more americans from these types of acts. When you are fighting lunatics you have to cover all your bases.

I completely and totally disagree with most of what you are saying here. Whether those awful things took place in those Iraqi jails or not Berg was going to die, and he was going to be treated the way he was IMO simply because he was a Jew. The same way Daniel Pearl was treated in Pakistan some 2-years ago. His only crime was he was a Jew.

Until ppl start to understand why these terrorist are after us some will never truly get what's going on. We are hated by radical Muslims because we support the Jews in Israel. At least that’s how I see things.

We are winning the people over in Iraq, the problem is the ELITE liberal press in this country will not report how our soldiers are doing that day in day out.

And I am calm; I have no idea why you would think I am not calm.

Oliver...

ohall
05-14-2004, 01:58 AM
i dont know oliver, he was sitting pretty quiet on the floor, if you know that you gonna get killed in the next minutes, i think you kind of try to do something about it

Honestly, I think the man was doing his best to die with some dignity. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to think he died while being brave. I doubt he thought they were going to do exactly what they did. I’m sure his thoughts were revolving around being shot or some other more humane way of dieing.

Man every time I think about how cowardly those bastards are I just get mad.

Oliver...

PhinPhan1227
05-14-2004, 02:05 AM
I think you're missing Treks point Oliver. YES they would have killed him anyway...NO the prison videos didn't cause or even influence his death. But the video's gave these animals a MEDIA excuse. They would have done it anyway, but the video's allow them to go on camera and SAY that's why they did it.


I completely and totally disagree with most of what you are saying here. Whether those awful things took place in those Iraqi jails or not Berg was going to die, and he was going to be treated the way he was IMO simply because he was a Jew. The same way Daniel Pearl was treated in Pakistan some 2-years ago. His only crime was he was a Jew.

Until ppl start to understand why these terrorist are after us some will never truly get what's going on. We are hated by radical Muslims because we support the Jews in Israel. At least that’s how I see things.

We are winning the people over in Iraq, the problem is the ELITE liberal press in this country will not report how our soldiers are doing that day in day out.

And I am calm; I have no idea why you would think I am not calm.

Oliver...

ohall
05-14-2004, 02:07 AM
I think you're missing Treks point Oliver. YES they would have killed him anyway...NO the prison videos didn't cause or even influence his death. But the video's gave these animals a MEDIA excuse. They would have done it anyway, but the video's allow them to go on camera and SAY that's why they did it.

If that was his/her point then yes I did miss that. And I agree with that totally.

Oliver...

Coral Reefer
05-14-2004, 02:15 AM
I think you're missing Treks point Oliver. YES they would have killed him anyway...NO the prison videos didn't cause or even influence his death. But the video's gave these animals a MEDIA excuse. They would have done it anyway, but the video's allow them to go on camera and SAY that's why they did it.


Thanks for the translation PhinPhan.
For some reason Oliver and I can't even AGREE with each other succesfully. :lol:

ohall
05-14-2004, 02:19 AM
Thanks for the translation PhinPhan.
For some reason Oliver and I can't even AGREE with each other succesfully. :lol:

Some times we all can't take YES for an answer. Sorry I misunderstood what you were typing man, seriously.

Oliver...

Coral Reefer
05-14-2004, 02:28 AM
I completely and totally disagree with most of what you are saying here.

I don't know why. I agree with what you are saying.
What we did in the jails was stupid because it gave them another reason to point at us as the evil ones to their people instead of themselves.




Until ppl start to understand why these terrorist are after us some will never truly get what's going on. We are hated by radical Muslims because we support the Jews in Israel. At least that’s how I see things.

You are right on in this. This is not our war. It is a war that has been going on for many many years. The ONLY reason we got dragged into this is because of what you just said. Our continued one sided support of Israel has dragged us into this war. Our media paints the Muslims as hating Democracy. What a joke. They could care less about that. Terrorists are simply pissed that we jump on Muslims when they take action against Israel and then turn our heads when Israel does something exactly the same as the Muslims did. If we took no sides approach to this we NEVER would have been involved.



We are winning the people over in Iraq, the problem is the ELITE liberal press in this country will not report how our soldiers are doing that day in day out.

Oliver...

That is exactly why the prison deal was such a stupid mistake.
Here we are making headway with their people and we gift wrap a nice little video of us hazing Iraqui's like frat boys for the radicals to paint us as the bad guys again.

ohall
05-14-2004, 04:22 AM
I don't know why. I agree with what you are saying.
What we did in the jails was stupid because it gave them another reason to point at us as the evil ones to their people instead of themselves.




You are right on in this. This is not our war. It is a war that has been going on for many many years. The ONLY reason we got dragged into this is because of what you just said. Our continued one sided support of Israel has dragged us into this war. Our media paints the Muslims as hating Democracy. What a joke. They could care less about that. Terrorists are simply pissed that we jump on Muslims when they take action against Israel and then turn our heads when Israel does something exactly the same as the Muslims did. If we took no sides approach to this we NEVER would have been involved.



That is exactly why the prison deal was such a stupid mistake.
Here we are making headway with their people and we gift wrap a nice little video of us hazing Iraqui's like frat boys for the radicals to paint us as the bad guys again.

Sorry dude, I'm totally 100% behind Israel. I think they are simply defending themselves. America had always better support Israel. They are in the right and they have every right in what they are doing in Israel. Obviously you have a dif POV when it comes to Israel than I do. That's not a problem, your POV is more understanding of both sides. I don't want to understand ppl who would get small children to become homicide bombers.

Oliver...

TerryTate
05-14-2004, 04:36 AM
It's just unbelievable that some cultures over there value life so little...

I watched this video in my "Crime and Terror" class today (er, last night technically) about how this man kept in contact with Hezbollah, and when he got a call, he left his wife and daughter and his successes (had a degree, had a good job, etc.) to go blow himself up for hezbollah in Israel, he felt motivated because he grew up in a war-torn past in Lebanon.

Anyways this guy was buildinga bomb in the hotel he rented when it detonated, causing him to be blind, have burn marks, and lose 3 of four limbs. The Israeli paramedics arrived and saved his life.

This video was made in 98, 99, something like that...adn they interviewed an Israeli government official about the detonation, and he was reluctant to comment on this, which makes you think that the israelis contribute to the black market for weapons, tampering with them to cause one death instead of dozens when this guy planned to blow himself up in a crowded area.

I dont get the logic of these people, I wish the extremists would just seperate from the true muslims and form their own religion, so we can single them out, put them grouped in a secluded area and just napalm the crap out of them...

ohall
05-14-2004, 04:48 AM
It's just unbelievable that some cultures over there value life so little...

I watched this video in my "Crime and Terror" class today (er, last night technically) about how this man kept in contact with Hezbollah, and when he got a call, he left his wife and daughter and his successes (had a degree, had a good job, etc.) to go blow himself up for hezbollah in Israel, he felt motivated because he grew up in a war-torn past in Lebanon.

Anyways this guy was buildinga bomb in the hotel he rented when it detonated, causing him to be blind, have burn marks, and lose 3 of four limbs. The Israeli paramedics arrived and saved his life.

This video was made in 98, 99, something like that...adn they interviewed an Israeli government official about the detonation, and he was reluctant to comment on this, which makes you think that the israelis contribute to the black market for weapons, tampering with them to cause one death instead of dozens when this guy planned to blow himself up in a crowded area.

I dont get the logic of these people, I wish the extremists would just seperate from the true muslims and form their own religion, so we can single them out, put them grouped in a secluded area and just napalm the crap out of them...

Exactly those ppl are giving true Muslims a bad name.

Oliver...

BigFinFan
05-14-2004, 12:36 PM
US Civilians consider the humiliation of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib shocking; the terrorists consider sawing off the head of a helpless, innocent man an act that bestows glory unto their god and their people

PhinPhan1227
05-14-2004, 06:30 PM
Thanks for the translation PhinPhan.
For some reason Oliver and I can't even AGREE with each other succesfully. :lol:


Lol..no sweat Trek...now if only the UN could be as effective!!

Dolfan954
05-15-2004, 02:49 PM
I just watched it. I've been speechless for about 5 minutes now...I'm in utter shock...WOW.

I feel for his family. No one should have to die like that. It's about time we get out of their country though, although that doesn't excuse the gruesome killing of an innocent man. Nothing that Dubya said was in Iraq has been found.

ohall
05-15-2004, 05:57 PM
I just watched it. I've been speechless for about 5 minutes now...I'm in utter shock...WOW.

I feel for his family. No one should have to die like that. It's about time we get out of their country though, although that doesn't excuse the gruesome killing of an innocent man. Nothing that Dubya said was in Iraq has been found.

Nope the UN delayed for him, and all the evidence is gone. The UN and Saddam made a great team. That's becoming pretty darn apparent.

By the way how do feel about Libya turning over it's WMD program? Do you feel that would have took place if the US did not go into Iraq?

Oliver...

DolFan31
05-16-2004, 01:56 PM
http://marc.perkel.com

Check that out for a different perspective

DeDolfan
05-17-2004, 11:03 AM
:( I have to admit that I found it rather disturbing.

These are the kind of things that make us past the point of no return in this whole damn mess. We can't leave know since that will make all those that perished having done so in vain! Truly a sad time for America.

Coral Reefer
05-17-2004, 03:55 PM
Nope the UN delayed for him, and all the evidence is gone. The UN and Saddam made a great team.

This is an argumentative opinion that I don't see having much if any evidence to support it. The country has been turned upside down and you can bet if there was ANY evidence at all, even the least bit, we would be being force fed it as proof of the invasion being necessary.



By the way how do feel about Libya turning over it's WMD program? Do you feel that would have took place if the US did not go into Iraq?

Oliver...

Well based on that comment Oliver we should have gone into Libya and not Iraq. I don't get the argument.

Coral Reefer
05-17-2004, 04:00 PM
http://marc.perkel.com

Check that out for a different perspective


Wow.....
Now that's an ummmm interesting alternative perspective.....

ohall
05-17-2004, 05:14 PM
This is an argumentative opinion that I don't see having much if any evidence to support it. The country has been turned upside down and you can bet if there was ANY evidence at all, even the least bit, we would be being force fed it as proof of the invasion being necessary.



Well based on that comment Oliver we should have gone into Libya and not Iraq. I don't get the argument.

There's plenty of support for that thought process. A country the size of California and you are surprised if it's still there it can't be found? Why do ppl always leave their common sense out of the situation in Iraq?

And thankfully because we went into Iraq we now do not have to go into Libya as well. This is a GREAT thing.

Oliver...

Section126
05-17-2004, 08:16 PM
The WMD's WERE THERE!!!!!!!!!!

WHERE ARE THEY?

That is the problem....we have to account for them......The UN allowed for them to disperse their stockpiles to there buddies in Syria and who knows where else...

Coral Reefer
05-19-2004, 01:43 AM
[QUOTE=Section126]The WMD's WERE THERE!!!!!!!!!
QUOTE]

Oh, if you say so 126. :lol:

Question is did they still have them at the time we made our decision to invade Iraq or had they actually dispersed their weapons.

So Your intelligence source.... the one that told you for a fact they were still there was the CIA, FBI..... which high level agency do you have clearance to this type of information to be so sure of this?

We'll never know the real story. There are arguments to support both viewpoints on the war on many issues. This all goes much deeper than just WMD's though that's for sure. There are many rotten things going on in the middle east and we've had a hand in dirty dealings right along side all the other suspects over there. This is a section of the world that will not see peace and we allow ourselves to be dragged into the foray like a chess piece for a country we support blindly.

ohall
05-19-2004, 03:42 AM
[QUOTE=Section126]The WMD's WERE THERE!!!!!!!!!
QUOTE]

Oh, if you say so 126. :lol:

Question is did they still have them at the time we made our decision to invade Iraq or had they actually dispersed their weapons.

So Your intelligence source.... the one that told you for a fact they were still there was the CIA, FBI..... which high level agency do you have clearance to this type of information to be so sure of this?

We'll never know the real story. There are arguments to support both viewpoints on the war on many issues. This all goes much deeper than just WMD's though that's for sure. There are many rotten things going on in the middle east and we've had a hand in dirty dealings right along side all the other suspects over there. This is a section of the world that will not see peace and we allow ourselves to be dragged into the foray like a chess piece for a country we support blindly.

Why would it matter if the WMD were gone the day before the war or even a year before the invasion? The point is you are asking ppl to trust a madmans (Saddam) word in a world that was changed after 9/11. Is that what you are asking for ppl to trust in?

Me, I'll go with a President who will take the risk even if it means he may turn out to be wrong as to the reason why we go to war. So long as his intentions are to keep America safe. If some of you want to 2nd guess the decision, go right ahead, but don't ever forget it's nothing more than 2nd guessing.

Oliver...

PhinFan2006
05-19-2004, 04:05 AM
There's plenty of support for that thought process. A country the size of California and you are surprised if it's still there it can't be found? Why do ppl always leave their common sense out of the situation in Iraq?

And thankfully because we went into Iraq we now do not have to go into Libya as well. This is a GREAT thing.

Oliver...
I'm with you OHALL. As a veteran with 12 years in the military service under President Reagan, Bush Sr. and Clinton, I consider myself aware of the bigger picture when it comes to Iraq, and the terrorist threat.

It's easy for some to say "Where are the WMD's?," but it's apparently even easier for them to forget that he used them on the Kurds..."HIS OWN PEOPLE!"....that's a fact. Nobody in this world could say that he did away with all the chemicals he amassed over the years. Do you actually think he willingly disposed of it all? He'd rather dispose of his own people before doing that...17 broken resolutions, do you think another 17 would solve anything.
Bush took his time, and put together a coalition over more than 6 months. It's not like he just jumped into this whole thing. EVERY intelligence agengy in the world felt Hussein had WMD's....Even President hopeful Senator John Kerry.

FACTs....
-Our troops uncovered burried Soviet Mig fighters in the desert that they somehow snuck in illegally during the past 10 years, how hard would it be to hide WMD's in the sand?
-How about the UN (France, Germany, and Russia's) Oil for Cash scandal. If the leaders of those countries didn't have a stake in the whole thing, they very well might have been a whole lot more supportive. Who's really in this for the oil?

I hate seeing our troops die over there. I also hate seeing civilians get murdered/killed just for being in the wrong place. But what I would hate even worse is sitting back like ******* and doing nothing, while we try and work with a very corrupt UN.

President Bush isn't perfect, and I don't agree with all of his policies, but when it comes to protecting this country from anyone who wants to do us harm again, it too much of a positive with him and his administration taking getting that job done, as compared to Kerry and whoever he would have in his. If we have bombs going off in our country on a large scale our whole way of life takes a huge hit. Six months away from and election, and Kerry still hasn't said how he would do anything better over in Iraq, or in the war against terrorism. That's crazy in my opinion. It's the single most important issue in this election.

For the Liberals who want to ***** about their civil liberties being violated in regards to the Patriot Act...GET OVER IT! :rolleyes:


To be continued...... :apc:

ohall
05-19-2004, 04:49 AM
I'm with you OHALL. As a veteran with 12 years in the military service under President Reagan, Bush Sr. and Clinton, I consider myself aware of the bigger picture when it comes to Iraq, and the terrorist threat.

It's easy for some to say "Where are the WMD's?," but it's apparently even easier for them to forget that he used them on the Kurds..."HIS OWN PEOPLE!"....that's a fact. Nobody in this world could say that he did away with all the chemicals he amassed over the years. Do you actually think he willingly disposed of it all? He'd rather dispose of his own people before doing that...17 broken resolutions, do you think another 17 would solve anything.
Bush took his time, and put together a coalition over more than 6 months. It's not like he just jumped into this whole thing. EVERY intelligence agengy in the world felt Hussein had WMD's....Even President hopeful Senator John Kerry.

FACTs....
-Our troops uncovered burried Soviet Mig fighters in the desert that they somehow snuck in illegally during the past 10 years, how hard would it be to hide WMD's in the sand?
-How about the UN (France, Germany, and Russia's) Oil for Cash scandal. If the leaders of those countries didn't have a stake in the whole thing, they very well might have been a whole lot more supportive. Who's really in this for the oil?

I hate seeing our troops die over there. I also hate seeing civilians get murdered/killed just for being in the wrong place. But what I would hate even worse in sitting back like ******* and doing nothing, while we try and work with a very corrupt UN.

President Bush isn't perfect, and I don't agree with all of his policies, but when it comes to protecting this country from anyone who wants to do us harm again, it too much of a positive with him and his administration taking getting that job done, as compared to Kerry and whoever he would have in his. If we have bombs going off in our country on a large scale our whole way of life takes a huge hit. Six months away from and election, and Kerry still hasn't said how he would do anything better over in Iraq, or in the war against terrorism. That's crazy in my opinion. It's the single most important issue in this election.

For the Liberals who want to ***** about their civil liberties being violated in regards to the Patriot Act...GET OVER IT! :rolleyes:


To be continued...... :apc:

What about what took place in Turkey, and how France, Germany and Russia sabotaged thru the UN Turkey allowing US troops to gain access to N. Iraq during the invasion? IMO that in one the of the biggest reasons we are dealing with Fullajah and the terrorist insurgency is such large #'s in Iraq right now.

France, Germany and Russia can go suck a raw egg as far as I'm concerned. Their actions were despicable and IMO have direct implications in American soldiers dieing at this very moment.

And thank you for your service to this country and keeping all of us free. That goes for all you military ppl, thx much.

Oliver...

PhinFan2006
05-19-2004, 06:25 PM
What about what took place in Turkey, and how France, Germany and Russia sabotaged thru the UN Turkey allowing US troops to gain access to N. Iraq during the invasion? IMO that in one the of the biggest reasons we are dealing with Fullajah and the terrorist insurgency is such large #'s in Iraq right now.

Oliver...

Yep, another byproduct of dealing with the UN, and the other countries secret agendas. :yell:

DallasDolfan
05-20-2004, 09:47 PM
Watching it will provide us with a grim reminder of what we are dealing with. It is a wake up call for some that have fallen into complacency after the outrage of 9/11
This is no more graphic than the 3000 people killed on 9-11. I will never forget, and nor should you. If we don't stop these bastards where they come from, they will keep coming after us. God Bless George Bush.