PDA

View Full Version : Should marijuana be legalized?



Phinzone
05-15-2004, 04:35 PM
You knew it was coming :)

Anyway, I am a firm believer that it should be legalized. I personally don't use it, so I don't care one way or another. What I DO care about, is my tax dollars paying for thousands of inmates in jail for years because they peddle the seven leaf clover.

We spend SOOOOOO much fighting something that has become widely used in our society. We pay people to arrest these users, jail them, court costs, parole, or jail. WAY too much money to keep people from smoking some jane. When we COULD be taxing the hell out of it and making a bundle off it.

So that's where I stand. I think we should set up legal growing facilities, give people who want to buy it a "credit card" type deal that limits how much they can buy in a given period of time, tax it, and make money off the ****. It's no different now than drinking was in the prohibition era. Drinking has negative health affects, as well as smoking. Might as well let people smoke pot, and get the money from it.

DolFan31
05-15-2004, 11:19 PM
yes and i totally agree with u as a pot smoker..i would gladly pay taxes on it in exchange for the freedom and right to abuse my body if i choose to.

Thundercracker
05-15-2004, 11:24 PM
decriminalize it and allow us to grow it in our home's w/out repercussion.

Clumpy
05-15-2004, 11:44 PM
No!

BigFinFan
05-16-2004, 01:13 AM
Got to agree with Clumpy - although I hat eto agree with Bills Fans!

It is a mind altering drug and it should not be legal!

Thundercracker
05-16-2004, 03:00 AM
Got to agree with Clumpy - although I hat eto agree with Bills Fans!

It is a mind altering drug and it should not be legal!

so is alcohol................................................................................................................................................................................................. ........................................................................................................................................................................................................ .....................................................................................................................

DolFan31
05-16-2004, 03:42 AM
so is alcohol................................................................................................................................................................................................. ........................................................................................................................................................................................................ .....................................................................................................................
See? When you bring in whats legal they go quiet because they know the drug laws in this country are hypocritical, unconstitutional and unjust. Its no one's business what you do with your body, because after all, who does your body belong to? You or the government? Prohibition creates crime. Drugs have been around for centuries, and they were not associated with crime until they were prohibited, along with alcohol and prostitution. Prohibition creates black markets controled by violent thugs who are willing to make huge bucks off of illegal goods. Thats why guns arent prohibited in this country because that would create a black market for guns. What way to kill a black market? Make the goods they sell legal, that way drug dealers wouldnt be able to make money because those who buy would be more willing to buy from legal markets because of the safety of them. It would force drug dealers to take real jobs and contribute to society. It would reduce the size of prisons, divert police resources over to go after real, hard criminals such as murderers and child rapists, instead of some guy who just got caught smoking a joint. Our tax dollars would not be wasted on that guy for court time and prison time, and you'll see much more revenue created from regulation to go toward building and repairing schools, hospitals, infrastructure, national defense, health care, and other good things. Prisons would have more room for those murderers and rapists and such who need to be there instead of them being released to make room for that average joe who got caught with a joint. Visit http://www.perkel.com/politics/issues/pot.htm to learn more about pot and why its illegal.

Dolfan954
05-16-2004, 07:52 AM
See? When you bring in whats legal they go quiet because they know the drug laws in this country are hypocritical, unconstitutional and unjust. Its no one's business what you do with your body, because after all, who does your body belong to? You or the government? Prohibition creates crime. Drugs have been around for centuries, and they were not associated with crime until they were prohibited, along with alcohol and prostitution. Prohibition creates black markets controled by violent thugs who are willing to make huge bucks off of illegal goods. Thats why guns arent prohibited in this country because that would create a black market for guns. What way to kill a black market? Make the goods they sell legal, that way drug dealers wouldnt be able to make money because those who buy would be more willing to buy from legal markets because of the safety of them. It would force drug dealers to take real jobs and contribute to society. It would reduce the size of prisons, divert police resources over to go after real, hard criminals such as murderers and child rapists, instead of some guy who just got caught smoking a joint. Our tax dollars would not be wasted on that guy for court time and prison time, and you'll see much more revenue created from regulation to go toward building and repairing schools, hospitals, infrastructure, national defense, health care, and other good things. Prisons would have more room for those murderers and rapists and such who need to be there instead of them being released to make room for that average joe who got caught with a joint. Visit http://www.perkel.com/politics/issues/pot.htm to learn more about pot and why its illegal.
OMG you read Perkel? We have more in common than I thought. :eek:

Perkel is 'da man. :hail:

www.perkel.com



Who opposes legalizing Marijuana and why:

There are many types of people who oppose legalizing Marijuana for a variety of reasons. Many of these groups have some very strange reasons and selfish interests. Many are just ignorant of the facts. Here's some of the opposition:
The Uninformed - People who believe the misinformation that Pot is harmful to society.

The Government - Pot has been illegal for so long that no politicians have the political courage to tell the truth about Pot. The ones that do tell the truth are defeated by their opponents that paint them as a druggie. Many of these anti-drug politicians are funded by the Alcohol lobby.

Religion - Anything fun is sin and of the Devil. Churches might lose members as people figure out that God can't be that stupid.

Moralizers - The morally superior who enjoy looking down their noses at the less fortunate and get a sadistic thrill in putting people in jail.

People who do no Drugs - These people who don't drink, don't smoke, in some cases don't even drink coffee. They just don't understand why anyone would want to smoke anything or do any drug. From their perspective the world would be better off if no one did anything.

The Alcohol Lobby - Legalizing Pot would seriously cut into the sales of Beer. Pot would become the recreational drug of choice because it is safer than Beer.

The Tobacco Lobby - Pot has the ability in some people to help them break the addiction of nicotine. Pot smoking could actually reduce the number of tobacco addicts.

Law Enforcement - There are a lot of people who make a living fighting Pot who would have to go get a real job if Pot were legalized. Police departments get a lot of funding to fight Marijuana and those funds could be returned to the taxpayer if Pot were made legal. Cops would have to chase robbers, rapists, and murderers.

Government Agencies - Using unconstitutional civil forfeiture laws the government has been able to use the presence of Pot to steal billions of dollars of private property from the People. Drug laws have been an excuse to circumvent our constitutional right and justify wire tap laws, the erosion of protection from illegal searches, key recovery encryption, and domestic spying. If you take a politically unpopular position like this one I'm taking now, the government can plant drugs on you and put you away.

Pot Dealers - If Pot were legalized then people making money off of selling Pot illegally would be out of business. Pot prices would drop to $10 a bale. Crime relating to illegal Pot money would vanish.

Wood Industry - Hemp would become the primary source of fiber for paper products as well as a new source for building materials. We wouldn't have to cut down every big tree in the world.

Private Prisons - If Pot were legalized the private prison industry would be hurt. They would no longer jail Pot smokers. It could free up space for violent criminals.

Trial Lawyers - Normal people caught with a joint spend billions each year on lawyers to get them off of criminal charges after getting caught with a joint. Lawyers get rich off of the Marijuana laws. If Marijuana were legal this money could be spent sending your kids to college.

Mental Hospitals - There's a big industry treating people for problems they don't have. If you have insurance, you're crazy until the insurance coverage runs out. If you smoke Pot then you have mental problems. If Pot were legal some of these people would have to get real jobs. We should start treating people who are addicted to 12 step programs.

Republicans - Pot helps you see reality the way it really is. It's harder to con a Pot smoker on political issues. Once you get stoned it's harder to want to hate Liberals, Queers, Blacks, Pregnant Teens, Draft Dodgers, President Clinton, Feminists, Lesbians, Pot Smokers, and other people the Republicans want you to hate. When you're stoned it's harder to like Newt Gingrich, John Ashcroft, the KKK, the Christian Coalition, Jerry Falwell, Pat Buchanan, Reverend Sun Myung Moon, People who beat Gay's to Death, People who blow up Abortion Clinics, and the morally superior in general.

Political Cowards - Politicians like to pose with police as somebody who is "against drugs" promising to lock up all the pot smokers and throw away the key. These people need an artificial issue to be against so they don't have to face real issues like how to protect the public from crooked lawyers and crooked judges. Political cowards cross all party lines when it comes to pot and includes President Clinton.

Others - These groups could also be hurt by legalizing Pot. Car body shops would get less alcohol related wrecks to fix. Hospitals would get less alcohol related business as would alcohol treatment centers and funeral homes. It could hurt cemeteries and tombstone makers as well.


That says it all. Well, almost...

I can't believe he left out a key industry:

PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES!

The pharmaceutical industry is the #1 business in America, grossing billions per year. Making that kind of money, can you imagine how much influence they have on the government? The pharmaceutical business would suffer somewhat if marijuana was legalized. Sales of xanax, paxil, and other prescription anti-depressants would plummet. According to the 2003 annual reports from Upjohn Pharm (http://www.upjohn.com/are/investors_reports/annual_2003/financial/fr07a_4.htm), annual sales of Xanax were $238 million. GlaxoSmithKline (http://www.gsk.com/financial/reps03/annual_report2003.pdf) reported a profit of $1.87 billion from '03 Paxil sales, and Lilly Pharm (http://investor.lilly.com/annuals.cfm) reported an '02 profit IN THE UNITED STATES ALONE of $11.08 billion in Prozac sales. They would NEVER make that much money if marijuana was legalized.

I know these companies would start stocking mariuana if it was legalized...just like they supply cocaine, heroin, and other controlled substances to other wholesalers, as well as doctors and pharmacies, but they wouldn't make nearly as much. To understand that, you first have to understand how it works with these manufacturers of pharmaceuticals.

The reason why they charge so much money when they manufacturer a product is because millions of dollars are poured into research & development in order to create and test the product. It takes a few years to get the product approved and bring it to market. When it finally does hit the market, they blow up their retail selling price to recover their investment from R&D, and they usually make at least a 70% margin in doing so.

Another thing that pharmaceutical manufacturers do is raise their pricing occasionally when they feel like it. They can claim anything from competitive pressures to raw material shortages. They control the entire market as far as setting pricing is concerned. If pot was legalized, then there would be no money required for R&D, FDA approval, etc. because marijuana isn't something that needs to be formulated. You grow it and pack it. That's all. Therefore, they wouldn't make nearly as much money selling marijuana as opposed to formulating a product, doing the R&D, paying the fees for FDA approval, lawyer fees, etc.

In conclusion, all of these people/industries will do their best to see that it doesn't get legalized. Money is power. Whoever has the most money and/or guns has the power to determine the law. That's how it is in this country.

I should have started posting in these forums earlier! There seems to be a more intelligent exchange of ideas here (as far as I've seen), rather than, "Fiedler and Feeley suck..what are we gonna do??"

34RWilliams
05-16-2004, 09:22 AM
If indeed Marijuana is legalized, would'nt you think her gov't would slap a patent on a box of MARY JANE's and lower the level of potency in it, much like cigarettes

iceblizzard69
05-16-2004, 09:35 AM
If alcohol and cigarettes are legal, then pot should be legal as well. If someone wants to get high, they should be allowed to.

The war on drugs is a waste of money. People can still get drugs very easily if they want to and people who smoke marijuana or do any other drugs for that matter do not deserve to be in jail. If you are arrested for doing cocaine, you should be sent to rehab, not prison. Sending drug users to jail does absolutely nothing for drug users and just makes them worse. Sending them to rehab would make them better.

t2thejz
05-16-2004, 11:50 AM
Got to agree with Clumpy - although I hat eto agree with Bills Fans!

It is a mind altering drug and it should not be legal!I agree...alcohol is pretty much part of our culture...it has to be legal. Cigs are not mind altering

DolFan31
05-16-2004, 12:41 PM
I agree...alcohol is pretty much part of our culture...it has to be legal. Cigs are not mind altering

So let me get this straight..alcohol is a mind-altering substance like marijuana, but its ok if alcohol is legal because its part of our culture? Do you know how long marijuana has been part of our culture? In colonial times, they used to grow pot plants much like they grew tobacco and other plants. It was not a problem until the government made it part of their Prohibition campaign. When you make something we use for enjoyment illegal, people will still continue to use it/do it and then since what they did is illegal, when theyre caught it makes them into a criminal, and when you go to jail and then get out your chances of getting a job are much smaller, and if u do get a job it will be a low-paying one which is why many just resort to selling drugs because of the value of drugs. Legalize it and you eliminate the high value of drugs and force that drug-dealer to get a job, which will hirer them because when they look at his background again and see he was in jail for drugs but then realize the laws changed, they would most likely hire him this time.

Legalize it and stop this mindless war on drugs.

iceblizzard69
05-16-2004, 02:56 PM
I agree...alcohol is pretty much part of our culture...it has to be legal. Cigs are not mind altering

Cigarettes may not be mind altering but they kill thousands of people a year unlike marijuana which isn't responsible for a single death in the history of the USA.

Alcohol and marijuana are both part of "our culture."

Den54
05-16-2004, 07:27 PM
Like it says in the bible:
Genesis 1
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food."

Now Dolfan 954 and myself answer to a higher law. Now maybe if they legalized it I would grow it and eat it. :D

BigFinFan
05-18-2004, 12:53 PM
Cigarettes may not be mind altering but they kill thousands of people a year unlike marijuana which isn't responsible for a single death in the history of the USA.

Alcohol and marijuana are both part of "our culture."

Wow - REALLY?

I agree that Cigarettes kill thousands yearly. Where do you get your facts IRT "Marijuana not being responsible for a single death in history of the US"?

Do you expect us to believe that there have been...

- ZERO traffic accidents caused by the driver being stoned?

- ZERO murders committed by a member of society that was not high?

- ZERO boating/swimming/skiing/hiking fatalities where the person was high?

Honestly!

Dolfan954
05-18-2004, 12:59 PM
Wow - REALLY?

I agree that Cigarettes kill thousands yearly. Where do you get your facts IRT "Marijuana not being responsible for a single death in history of the US"?

Do you expect us to believe that there have been...

- ZERO traffic accidents caused by the driver being stoned?

- ZERO murders committed by a member of society that was not high?

- ZERO boating/swimming/skiing/hiking fatalities where the person was high?

Honestly!

I agree...almost anything in excess can and will kill you, however, the occurences of each incident is CONSIDERABLY less vs alcohol. When I go home tonight, I'll try and dig up some statistics for everyone.

BigFinFan
05-18-2004, 01:01 PM
Rumor always had it that there were few, if any, physical or psychological effects of smoking pot. Recent studies, however, have revealed evidence of some long-term physical effects. Smoking pot causes changes in your brain's chemistry, specifically, inhibiting the function of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, a chemical that transfers information from one nerve cell to another. This accounts for what happens when a person is high--s/he loses his/her short-term memory. Smoking pot interferes with one's intellectual performance and impairs thinking, reading comprehension, and verbal and arithmetic problem solving.

Marijuana smoking is particularly harmful to the lungs, more so than tobacco cigarettes. Joints are most always smoked unfiltered and down to the smallest butt possible and, to get the "best high", one must inhale deeply and hold the smoke longer in their lungs than tobacco smoke. Marijuana smoke contains not only delta-9-THC, but also numerous chemicals similar to tobacco tars, and about 50% more cancer-causing hydrocarbons than a tobacco cigarette.

Marijuana use has been shown to affect male and female reproductive systems, and to affect fetuses during pregnancy. The reproductive cells absorb and hold more THC than do most other body cells. Marijuana somewhat reduces production of testosterone (the hormone that causes development of facial hair, muscle tissue, and the male reproductive system). This might cause a problem in men who are marginally fertile. Some studies indicate that testosterone levels return to normal shortly after a person quits smoking.

BigFinFan
05-18-2004, 01:33 PM
In a 1996 survey of drivers 16 years and older, more than one fourth reported that they occasionally drove while under the influence of alcohol, marijuana or both. According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), alcohol is the predominant drug factor in fatal crashes and marijuana is the second most common drug factor in crashes" (Driving Impairment from Marijuana and Alcohol, American Family Physician, October 1, 2000.)

"After alcohol, delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), marijuana's major psychoactive constituent, is the drug which is found most often in the blood of drivers involved in road accidents." (Marijuana use and driving, Institute for Human Psychopharmacology)

"A recent study sponsored by the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) involving analysis of nearly 2000 fatal accident cases, found 6.7 percent of drivers positive for marijuana." (Claim: Marijuana is a major cause of highway accidents, Zero Zero Cannabis and driving report)

BigFinFan
05-18-2004, 01:38 PM
I have a question to all of you that are in favor of legalizing Marijuana.

Are you just interested in legalizing only Marijuana, or are you interested in legalizing all drugs?

Please explain.

DPlus47
05-18-2004, 01:53 PM
all drugs. the problem is, the govt. makes more money on drugs when they're illegal than they would if they were legal. plus the war on drugs gives us an excuse to drop defoliants on central america.

DPlus47
05-18-2004, 01:55 PM
the war on drugs also gives the govt. an excuse to encarcerate more people than any other country.

iceblizzard69
05-18-2004, 02:02 PM
Wow - REALLY?

I agree that Cigarettes kill thousands yearly. Where do you get your facts IRT "Marijuana not being responsible for a single death in history of the US"?

Do you expect us to believe that there have been...

- ZERO traffic accidents caused by the driver being stoned?

- ZERO murders committed by a member of society that was not high?

- ZERO boating/swimming/skiing/hiking fatalities where the person was high?

Honestly!

I'm not advocating driving while high. I don't think you should drive while stoned. However, if someone wants to get high while at home, they should be allowed to. It shouldn't be against the law to smoke marijuana.

You can say marijuana is responsible for deaths in car crashes, and you are probably right. However, no one has ever died just because they smoked marijuana. You can't overdose on marijuana.

You also said that one joint is more dangerous than one cigarette. Yeah, that's true. However, people who smoke cigarettes will smoke a lot more cigarettes than the amount of joints that a pot smoker will smoke. Cigarettes cause more damage because cigarette smokers smoke a lot of cigarettes.

Smoking marijuana may not be safe, but neither is drinking alcohol or smoking cigarettes. Marijuana should be a legal substance for quite a few reasons. First of all, people who smoke marijuana should not go to jail. They don't deserve to be there. I think that all drug users should not go to jail, it doesn't do anything for them and all it does is make them worse, not better. Secondly, the war on drugs is a complete waste of money. You can try to fight and keep drugs off the street, but if one dealer goes away, than another will pop up.

BigFinFan
05-18-2004, 02:48 PM
However, no one has ever died just because they smoked marijuana.

Actually, while I was in high school, a close friend of mine got high, from marijuana, and went to sleep. While sleeping, he threw up and asphyxiated in his own vomit.

I fully understand that it is easier to overdose with alcohol, aspirin, or any other OTC medication. I also fully understand that it is impossible to overdose by ingesting Marijuana by itself.



You can try to fight and keep drugs off the street, but if one dealer goes away, than another will pop up.

How will legalizing drugs make this problem go away? (During Prohibition, Alcohol was still readily available.)

If drugs are legalized, who controls the sale of the drugs?

iceblizzard69
05-18-2004, 03:57 PM
Actually, while I was in high school, a close friend of mine got high, from marijuana, and went to sleep. While sleeping, he threw up and asphyxiated in his own vomit.

I fully understand that it is easier to overdose with alcohol, aspirin, or any other OTC medication. I also fully understand that it is impossible to overdose by ingesting Marijuana by itself.




How will legalizing drugs make this problem go away? (During Prohibition, Alcohol was still readily available.)

If drugs are legalized, who controls the sale of the drugs?

Drugs are very easy to get. If drugs are legalized, then legal businesses, not drug cartels, can sell drugs. Also, the government could tax drugs and make money from that.

Drugs will never go away. The best thing to do would be to legalize them because drug users do not deserve to go to jail and then drugs could be sold in a better environment where companies, not drug cartels, make a profit. It would be good for the economy. Drug use will not go up because if you want drugs now, you can easily get them. No one is going to start doing drugs because they are legal.

BigFinFan
05-18-2004, 04:14 PM
Drugs will never go away.

I agree that drugs will never go away. I also believe that they will never be legalized. This has been a HUGE debate for decades.


The best thing to do would be to legalize them because drug users do not deserve to go to jail...

If the you are going to do the crime - you better be prepared to do the time. I totally disagree - if you are doing something illegal and you get caught, you deserve to go to jail.



...and then drugs could be sold in a better environment where companies, not drug cartels, make a profit.

Do you honestly belive that if drugs were to be legalized that "Drug Cartels" would go away? Do you realize how much money these "Drug Cartels" would lose? They would just start undercutting the "respectable company" selling the drugs and then the "respectable company" would end up going out of business.

CirclingWagons
05-18-2004, 04:46 PM
it's your body, you should be allowed to smoke, snort, shoot, or inhale anything you want

iceblizzard69
05-18-2004, 06:47 PM
I agree that drugs will never go away. I also believe that they will never be legalized. This has been a HUGE debate for decades.



If the you are going to do the crime - you better be prepared to do the time. I totally disagree - if you are doing something illegal and you get caught, you deserve to go to jail.




Do you honestly belive that if drugs were to be legalized that "Drug Cartels" would go away? Do you realize how much money these "Drug Cartels" would lose? They would just start undercutting the "respectable company" selling the drugs and then the "respectable company" would end up going out of business.

Speeding is also illegal. Do you think people who speed should go to jail?

You seem to just blindly agree with the law. You are saying that pot smokers should go to jail because that is what the law says. Sorry, but not every law is good. Some laws are stupid, and one of those laws is the one that says that marijuana is illegal.

Drug Cartels may not go away completely if drugs are legalized, but they will lose a ton of business. A lot of people would buy pot legally and avoid the risk of buying it illegally. Also, if marijuana is legalized, a lot more people would just grow their own weed. People do it now, but it is hard because you can get caught pretty easily.

If you want to smoke marijuana, you should be allowed to. The only person you are hurting by doing so is yourself. It may be harmful, but so are cigarettes and alcohol, and those are legal, and not only that, but cigarette and alcohol companies give money to the politicians that run this country today!

Phinzone
05-18-2004, 08:27 PM
whew, alright lots of opinion's running around....

Let me be clear. I'm for legalizing Marijuana only, not ALL drugs.

Marijuana is a "low core" drug that is widely used. It's not addictive and while it has adverse effects to the users, they are comprable to alchohol and Cigarette's.

While it's effects are adverse to be sure, their no worse than Alchohol, yet MUCH less severe than other habit forming drugs. Esctacy, Coccaine, Herion, etc. are hard core drugs with nothing but adverse effects associated with them. They screw up the body chemistry, can cause bad trips, and cause people to lose complete control of themselves.

DolFan31
05-18-2004, 09:22 PM
I think all drugs should be legal, for the sake of lowering crime and poverty dramatically. However, if not all drugs, then at least marijuana.

BigFinFan
05-19-2004, 11:28 AM
I think all drugs should be legal, for the sake of lowering crime and poverty dramatically. However, if not all drugs, then at least marijuana.

How would legalizing drugs lower the crime rate and poverty level?

inFINSible
05-19-2004, 11:44 AM
Illegal drugs are the catalyst to crime. A guy living in poverty is going to see others around him making $1000s a day dealing illegal drugs, You think that same guy is going to turn his back on that money for $400 a week at McDonalds?

If the drugs weren't illegal, then the money wouldn't be there for the criminals to kill each other over.

How it's going to solve the poverty problem I have no idea, although the farming, packaging, and retail sales could provide inumerable jobs.

inFINSible
05-19-2004, 11:57 AM
Still can't prove that Marijuana is harmful. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=571&ncid=751&e=4&u=/nm/20040517/hl_nm/cannabis_psychosocial_dc)
Grotenhermen, executive director of the International Association for Cannabis as Medicine (IACM), argues against complete prohibition of cannabis use.

"Alcohol prohibition was not very successful in reducing consumption and was very harmful to society," he said. "It seems that cannabis prohibition also does not work very well."


"Cannabis prohibition does not seem to reduce consumption," he added, and it may "drive otherwise law-obeyeing young people into illegal activities."



Making criminals out of people... :shakeno:

BigFinFan
05-19-2004, 12:14 PM
Illegal drugs are the catalyst to crime. A guy living in poverty is going to see others around him making $1000s a day dealing illegal drugs, You think that same guy is going to turn his back on that money for $400 a week at McDonalds?

If the drugs weren't illegal, then the money wouldn't be there for the criminals to kill each other over.

How it's going to solve the poverty problem I have no idea, although the farming, packaging, and retail sales could provide inumerable jobs.

Do you have proof that "Illegal drugs are the catalyst to crime"?

You are assuming that "If the drugs weren't illegal, then the money wouldn't be there for the criminals to kill each other over".

The drugs will be legal, and they will still kill each other.

Dolfan954
05-19-2004, 12:46 PM
Do you have proof that "Illegal drugs are the catalyst to crime"?

You are assuming that "If the drugs weren't illegal, then the money wouldn't be there for the criminals to kill each other over".

The drugs will be legal, and they will still kill each other.
I agree with you partly. Poor people trying to "come up" on some money will still take desperate measures to get what they want. Instead of marijuana, it would be killing someone over whatever illegal drug or controlled substance is out there (heroin, x, cocaine, etc..)

BigFinFan
05-19-2004, 12:52 PM
Still can't prove that Marijuana is harmful. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=571&ncid=751&e=4&u=/nm/20040517/hl_nm/cannabis_psychosocial_dc)

Making criminals out of people... :shakeno:

You shold have quoted this piece from the article:


One consistent finding among the studies was that young people who reported using cannabis were more likely to have attained a lower educational level than their non-cannabis using peers. Cannabis users were also more likely to report an increased use of other illicit drugs.


Now I see how legalizing Marijuana will help the poverty level!


On the other hand, cannabis use was not consistently associated with violent or antisocial behavior, or with psychological problems.


What a relief!!!!

Honestly, I really don't care if you want to smoke your phreaking brains out! It really doesn't matter to me. I just don't think that it should be legalized - I don't think that it will ever be legalized!

Dolfan954
05-19-2004, 12:54 PM
Still can't prove that Marijuana is harmful. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=571&ncid=751&e=4&u=/nm/20040517/hl_nm/cannabis_psychosocial_dc)

Making criminals out of people... :shakeno:
Thanks for the link. Here's what I found the most disturbing:


Under the new law, adults over the age of 17 who are caught smoking or in possession of a small amount of marijuana or hashish are not necessarily arrested or fined. Arrests are made for underage users, however, and penalties for growing and dealing in the drug have both been toughened to a maximum [b]14 years in prison. [b/]

14 YEARS!

It's ridiculous. Meanwhile, the doctor will happily prescribe Prozac for you, which does the same thing as marijuana, plus many side effects you don't want, including not being able to "get it up." Some of you already know that marijuana doesn't give you any problems in that department.

Like I said before, Prozac is okay in the eyes of the government because they gross over $11 BILLION per year.

Dolfan954
05-19-2004, 12:55 PM
Still can't prove that Marijuana is harmful. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=571&ncid=751&e=4&u=/nm/20040517/hl_nm/cannabis_psychosocial_dc)

Making criminals out of people... :shakeno:
Thanks for the link. Here's what I found the most disturbing:


Under the new law, adults over the age of 17 who are caught smoking or in possession of a small amount of marijuana or hashish are not necessarily arrested or fined. Arrests are made for underage users, however, and penalties for growing and dealing in the drug have both been toughened to a maximum 14 years in prison.

14 YEARS!

It's ridiculous. Meanwhile, the doctor will happily prescribe Prozac (an anti-depressant) for you...even though it comes with many side effects you don't want...the list is so long that I'll just include the link (http://prozac-side-effects.com/prozac-side-effects.html).

Like I said before, Prozac is okay in the eyes of the government because they gross over $11 BILLION per year. It's all about the almighty dollar.

BigFinFan
05-19-2004, 01:00 PM
I agree with you partly. Poor people trying to "come up" on some money will still take desperate measures to get what they want. Instead of marijuana, it would be killing someone over whatever illegal drug or controlled substance is out there (heroin, x, cocaine, etc..)

Looking at your signature prompted me to think about this question.

IF marijuana was legalized, would it be okay for Professional Athletes, Airline Pilots, School Bus Drivers, Doctors, Teachers or Military Members to smoke some bud prior to:

Professional Athletes - a game (Game 7 of the NBA, NHL, or MLB Finals)
Airline Pilots - flying a plane with you and your family
School Bus Drivers - taking your children or your brother/sister to school
Doctors - operating on your mom/dad/brother/sister/husband/wife/children
Teachers - teaching your children or yourself
Military Members - engaging in battle, launching missiles, driving a tank

Just a different perspective.

Dolfan954
05-19-2004, 01:16 PM
Looking at your signature prompted me to think about this question.

IF marijuana was legalized, would it be okay for Professional Athletes, Airline Pilots, School Bus Drivers, Doctors, Teachers or Military Members to smoke some bud prior to:

Professional Athletes - a game (Game 7 of the NBA, NHL, or MLB Finals)
Airline Pilots - flying a plane with you and your family
School Bus Drivers - taking your children or your brother/sister to school
Doctors - operating on your mom/dad/brother/sister/husband/wife/children
Teachers - teaching your children or yourself
Military Members - engaging in battle, launching missiles, driving a tank

Just a different perspective.

Of course not. I would never say that. Legalization doesn't give you the right to be irresponsible with it. It's legal in Amsterdam, and you'll get pulled over if you're caught smoking in your car, or just walking down the street. It's similar to the open container policy in America.

What someone does on there own time is their business, but when it can potentially the lives of others, I'm completely against it.

inFINSible
05-19-2004, 01:42 PM
Do you have proof that "Illegal drugs are the catalyst to crime"?

You are assuming that "If the drugs weren't illegal, then the money wouldn't be there for the criminals to kill each other over".

The drugs will be legal, and they will still kill each other.
Note that my response was to this question...
How would legalizing drugs lower the crime rate and poverty level?.....
NOT whether MARIJUANA should be legalized.

Big difference.

Legalizing all drugs would virtually eliminate the illicit drug trade, thereby taking the money out of the business of selling drugs.

Why would people still kill each other over drugs if it's basically all about money anyway? People aren't being killed because somebody wants their drugs. They're being killed because someone wants the money that goes along with the drugs.

Mass production and availability would make drugs more affordable meaning less reasons for property crimes.

Eliminate ALL crime associated with drugs? Probably not. But a drop in over-all crime statistics would be inevitable.

inFINSible
05-19-2004, 01:42 PM
Of course not. I would never say that. Legalization doesn't give you the right to be irresponsible with it. It's legal in Amsterdam, and you'll get pulled over if you're caught smoking in your car, or just walking down the street. It's similar to the open container policy in America.

What someone does on there own time is their business, but when it can potentially the lives of others, I'm completely against it.
Exactly.

inFINSible
05-19-2004, 01:47 PM
Thanks for the link. Here's what I found the most disturbing:


Under the new law, adults over the age of 17 who are caught smoking or in possession of a small amount of marijuana or hashish are not necessarily arrested or fined. Arrests are made for underage users, however, and penalties for growing and dealing in the drug have both been toughened to a maximum [b]14 years in prison. [b/]

14 YEARS!

It's ridiculous. Meanwhile, the doctor will happily prescribe Prozac for you, which does the same thing as marijuana, plus many side effects you don't want, including not being able to "get it up." Some of you already know that marijuana doesn't give you any problems in that department.

Like I said before, Prozac is okay in the eyes of the government because they gross over $11 BILLION per year.
This just proves your point that it's all about money and pharmacuetical companies....otherwise, why strengthen the laws against growing it yourself?

It's sad that even if the legalization movement gets done the government and it's beneficiaries are already creating ways to monopolize the new industry.

BigFinFan
05-19-2004, 02:23 PM
Legalizing all drugs would virtually eliminate the illicit drug trade, thereby taking the money out of the business of selling drugs.
This is a theory. How would the Columbian Drug Cartel respond to this? How much money do they stand to lose?



Why would people still kill each other over drugs if it's basically all about money anyway? People aren't being killed because somebody wants their drugs. They're being killed because someone wants the money that goes along with the drugs.
They want the money to purchase more drugs for their own use. Crack whores aren't selling themselves for the joy, they are selling themselves because they need money to purchase more crack. I agree that they are being killed because of the money. How many of them are using the money from robberies and murders to purchase more drugs?



Mass production and availability would make drugs more affordable meaning less reasons for property crimes.

Eliminate ALL crime associated with drugs? Probably not. But a drop in over-all crime statistics would be inevitable.
If it were legalized, the Government would tax the hell out of it! So, it might not be as affordable as you think. If the government taxed it heavily, those addicted would still need money for the purchase. What percentage of drug addicts are employed? If they have no job due to their addiction, they will have to resort to crime to support their habit.


THESE ARE ALL THEORIES TOO!

inFINSible
05-19-2004, 02:57 PM
What power are the drug cartels going to have when they no longer have a monopoly on a billion dollar a year business?

It's not about eliminating crime it's about substantially reducing crime. Substantially reducing the number of prisoners housed and paid for by yours and my tax dollars. Substantially reducing the hours wasted by law enforcement(that we pay for) on a war that they have ZERO chance of ever winning.

Do you ever hear of anyone getting robbed or killed for alcohol money?....What about cigarette money?

Of course there will still be crime associated with drug use, it's inevitable. There's crime associated with practically everything but, the majority of the crime is due to the money, both the costs and the profits. I seriously doubt, no matter how much the government tries to tax drugs, that they are going to be more expensive....Eliminating the shipping and legal problems would cut the cost of drugs in half to begin with. Add to that, open competiton for customers and laws of supply and demand, and you're looking at a drastic cost decrease.
For the record.....I AM in a favor of legalizing marijuana.....the other drugs, i don't like and don't condone but what's happening now is NOT working

We already know exactly how effective this way has been, it's time to start tweaking the system and putting more money towards prevention and education rather than the gestapo tactics currently being employed.

BigFinFan
05-19-2004, 03:27 PM
For the record.....I AM in a favor of legalizing marijuana.....the other drugs, i don't like and don't condone but what's happening now is NOT working

We already know exactly how effective this way has been, it's time to start tweaking the system and putting more money towards prevention and education rather than the gestapo tactics currently being employed.
For the record.....I AM AGAINST legalizing marijuana.

Many people have said that it will create jobs. How about ALL of the jobs that will be lost too? US Border Patrol, DEA, Customs, Police, Navy, Coast Guard - many will lose their job.

I agree that what we are doing now is not working. You mentioned that we should "put more money towards prevention" - if it is legalized, what do we need to prevent?

Until it legalized (if ever), smoke it if you got it --- just don't get caught!

inFINSible
05-19-2004, 03:48 PM
For the record.....I AM AGAINST legalizing marijuana.

Many people have said that it will create jobs. How about ALL of the jobs that will be lost too? US Border Patrol, DEA, Customs, Police, Navy, Coast Guard - many will lose their job.

I agree that what we are doing now is not working. You mentioned that we should "put more money towards prevention" - if it is legalized, what do we need to prevent?

Until it legalized (if ever), smoke it if you got it --- just don't get caught!

There are plenty of other things for those agencies to concentrate on, immigration control and terrorism prevention come to mind immediately.
A lot of the jobs would be lost but, that's the breaks when you're in that business. Laws change, budgets change, it's to be expected.

of course that's another reason that the government and it's agencies want to keep playing the game....they want to keep their jobs, and money rolling in...

As far as prevention goes, that goes hand in hand with education. Get the truth out and let people decide for themselves.

But, there in lies the crux of the problem, the government doesn't want people deciding anything for themselves.

It's a convoluted mess that needs to be straightened out in some way. I don't have all the answers but, they can be found, I believe that.

Thanks for helping me kill a day...:lol: I've enjoyed this convo..... :D

*trying not to get caught* ;)

Dolfan954
05-19-2004, 04:00 PM
For the record.....I AM AGAINST legalizing marijuana.

Many people have said that it will create jobs. How about ALL of the jobs that will be lost too? US Border Patrol, DEA, Customs, Police, Navy, Coast Guard - many will lose their job.

I agree that what we are doing now is not working. You mentioned that we should "put more money towards prevention" - if it is legalized, what do we need to prevent?

Until it legalized (if ever), smoke it if you got it --- just don't get caught!
I could care less if they lost their jobs. The US Border Patrol, DEA, Customs, Police, Navy, Coast Guard, employees of prisons, employees in the wood industry, pharmaceutical industry, alcohol industry, the list goes on and on...



To me, the issue is not how many jobs will be lost in those sectors. Imagine how many billions of dollars over the years would be available for other things, like healthcare for every citizen, a better social security program for the elderly, A BETTER EDUCATION SYSTEM NATIONWIDE.



Education is the most important thing, and it needs to be strengthened in this country. Look at today's generation of kids. These same kids will be the adult American citizens of tomorrow. These same kids will be electing senators, governors, presidents, etc, for years to come. That's a scary thought imo...



Additionally, what we as supposedly free Americans smoke in the privacy of our homes should be of no one's concern. All of these industries, companies, and government agencies have NO business telling us what to do in that regard.



Don't get me wrong. I have great respect for what the different government agents/military personnel are doing, because I understand their mindset. In their mind, the "War on Drugs" is something that they believe deeply in, and they hope that what they do can make a difference and bring about change in the world.

One could also take the pessimistic philosophical approach and say that the it's all a big scheme because they all know they will never win the War on Drugs, and this is simply their way of providing more money for the government by way of court fees, jail bonds, citations, etc.

I believe it's more of the former, and some of the latter. These agents at times put their lives on the line because it's something they believe in, while the people on the top of the food chain realize the money to be made in keeping drugs illegal.

Dolfan954
05-19-2004, 04:02 PM
*trying not to get caught* ;)
You know the rules...keep it low. ;)

iceblizzard69
05-19-2004, 04:07 PM
For the record.....I AM AGAINST legalizing marijuana.

Many people have said that it will create jobs. How about ALL of the jobs that will be lost too? US Border Patrol, DEA, Customs, Police, Navy, Coast Guard - many will lose their job.

I agree that what we are doing now is not working. You mentioned that we should "put more money towards prevention" - if it is legalized, what do we need to prevent?

Until it legalized (if ever), smoke it if you got it --- just don't get caught!

So part of the reason why you are against legalizing marijuana is because we won't be able to fight it anymore? LOL!!!!

The war on drugs is a waste of money. If drugs are legalized, then the people you listed could do more important things, like fight terrorism and other more important things. Fighting drugs is pointless since drugs will always be available.


IF marijuana was legalized, would it be okay for Professional Athletes, Airline Pilots, School Bus Drivers, Doctors, Teachers or Military Members to smoke some bud prior to:

Professional Athletes - a game (Game 7 of the NBA, NHL, or MLB Finals)
Airline Pilots - flying a plane with you and your family
School Bus Drivers - taking your children or your brother/sister to school
Doctors - operating on your mom/dad/brother/sister/husband/wife/children
Teachers - teaching your children or yourself
Military Members - engaging in battle, launching missiles, driving a tank

Just a different perspective.

Do you want these people drinking alcohol before they do those things either? Alcohol is legal, but we don't want people flying planes drunk. The same things you can't do drunk you shouldn't be allowed to do high. I am talking about smoking marijuana in the privacy of your own home, which should be legal. I don't think driving high should be legal just like I don't think driving drunk should be legal.

Dolfan954
05-19-2004, 04:08 PM
Thanks for helping me kill a day...:lol: I've enjoyed this convo..... :D

You should come to the political forums more often. It's much better than reading the 926th thread about, "Jay Fiedler Sucks!"

BigFinFan
05-19-2004, 04:09 PM
We will never win the war against drugs. The Drug Industry is to powerful to ever be brought down!

BigFinFan
05-19-2004, 04:10 PM
You should come to the political forums more often. It's much better than reading the 926th thread about, "Jay Fiedler Sucks!"

#927 - FIEDLER SUCKS!

:roflmao:

Dolfan954
05-19-2004, 04:14 PM
We will never win the war against drugs. The Drug Industry is to powerful to ever be brought down!
The American government knows that, but they're just too bloody greedy to even care. Money that comes from drug related activities helps out their bottom line. If The War on Drugs was a drain on expenses, and they didn't at least break even, the "war" would've ended a long time ago.

Bottom line....The War on Drugs = $$$

inFINSible
05-19-2004, 04:27 PM
You should come to the political forums more often. It's much better than reading the 926th thread about, "Jay Fiedler Sucks!"
You guys are too smart for me...

I'd get mopped up on a regualr basis.....

Don't think i don't read this forum daily though...;)

Dolfan954
05-19-2004, 04:34 PM
You guys are too smart for me...

I'd get mopped up on a regualr basis.....

Don't think i don't read this forum daily though...;)
Of course....we're ALL smarter than you. It's now that you're just realizing that? :tongue: :jk:

BTW, do you read Perkel? (www.perkel.com)

DolFan31
05-19-2004, 07:18 PM
Dolfan954, Infins..

Good points made. I hope someday we can all get a petition together and go to the Supreme Court and convince them(somehow) that the War on Drugs is wrong.

BigFinFan
05-19-2004, 09:43 PM
Dolfan954, Infins..

Good points made. I hope someday we can all get a petition together and go to the Supreme Court and convince them(somehow) that the War on Drugs is wrong.

I dont' think that will ever happen.

I think that the majority of the population would object to it being legalized anyway.

Dolfan954
05-31-2004, 08:46 AM
Here's an interesting link:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/content/auto/epaper/editions/sunday/sports_04fafe4f0484e08b0066.html