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View Full Version : Was the Nick Berg decapitation staged??



inFINSible
05-21-2004, 08:26 AM
Link (http://www.rense.com/general52/anom.htm)

This would seem to suggest it was staged but, I can't say I believe anything here because I won't watch it again...Anybody got the stomach to watch it with a sceptics' eye?

BigFinFan
05-21-2004, 12:12 PM
I have read many articles like this. There are a few things that I agree with, and there are many that I do not agree with.

Two ofthe biggest items now circulating the Internet and Media reference the Gold Ring and the White Chair.

I have read and heard that "wearing of a gold ring is absolutely proscribed by Islamic law" - What does Islamic law say about killing/beheading another human?

"The chair that Berg was seated in during the filming was a standard issue military chair of the exact same kind as seen in a color photo taken at the Abu Ghraib Prison".


I have been in the US Navy for over sixteen years now - I have never seen "a standard issue military chair" that looked like those used in the prison at Abu Ghraib and the Nick Berg Video. I HAVE seen the exact same chair at Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, and even while deployed to Egypt, Italy, Spain, and numerous other countries.

Did you know that the "15 Anomalies Surrounding Death Of Nick Berg" originated on the website www.whatreallyhappened.com

Dolfan954
05-21-2004, 01:08 PM
I have read many articles like this. There are a few things that I agree with, and there are many that I do not agree with.

Two ofthe biggest items now circulating the Internet and Media reference the Gold Ring and the White Chair.

I have read and heard that "wearing of a gold ring is absolutely proscribed by Islamic law" - What does Islamic law say about killing/beheading another human?

"The chair that Berg was seated in during the filming was a standard issue military chair of the exact same kind as seen in a color photo taken at the Abu Ghraib Prison".


I have been in the US Navy for over sixteen years now - I have never seen "a standard issue military chair" that looked like those used in the prison at Abu Ghraib and the Nick Berg Video. I HAVE seen the exact same chair at Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, and even while deployed to Egypt, Italy, Spain, and numerous other countries.

Did you know that the "15 Anomalies Surrounding Death Of Nick Berg" originated on the website www.whatreallyhappened.com
On a basic level, the argument is similar to:

"You have my pen!"

"No, I don't."

"Yes, you do! It looks just like mine!"

Just because the chair looks the same, doesn't mean it is the exact chair.

inFINSible
05-21-2004, 01:16 PM
There are 13 other points though...;)

BigFinFan
05-21-2004, 03:23 PM
There are 13 other points though...;)

I can continue on if you wish...

Has anyone seen the "New Abuse" pictures from the Washington Post?

Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/flash/photo/world/2004-05-20_photos/index_frames.htm?startat=1&indexFile=world_2004-05-20_photos','cwgallery_win','toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status=no,menubar=no,scrollbars=no,resizable=no,copyhistory=no,width=740,height=560,left=0,top=0,screenX=0,screenY=0)

Notice that in Picture 5, the prisoners are all wearing American Clothes (some long sleeved) and there is a white tennis shoe to the left of the pile.

Are we to believe that since these prisoners are wearing American Clothes that they are Americans? Could the Iraqi prisoners actually have American Clothes.

In reality, clothes, white chairs, white tennis shoes, bomb vest, and orange jumpsuits are readily available and ANYONE can purchase them!

Honestly, IF the beheading of Berg was planned by the US, don't you think that it would have been executed better. Don't you think that "Black OPS" (I laugh at this term) would be smarter after what happened with JFK?

Dolfan954
05-21-2004, 05:56 PM
There are 13 other points though...;)
I know. That's why I said, on a basic level. :tongue:

I'll have a much more in depth opinion on the subject after I read the whole story though. ;)

BigFinFan
05-21-2004, 07:01 PM
Okay, time to breakdown all of the points for inFINSible.


Arab linguists have said the man posing as the Jordanian Zaraqawi did not speak with a Jordanian dialect. Others have suggested the man reading the written statement may not have been a native speaker of Arabic.
Do we expect them to take credit for doing it? The CIA has confirmed the voice to be that of Zaraqawi.



Zaraqawi was missing one leg and had been outfitted with an artificial leg that did not fit or function properly. He was unable to walk or stand normally with his ill-fitting limb. No man in the group showed evidence of such an infirmity.
I have seen people with one leg play football and run marathons. Whose opinion is this anyway?



Numerous indigenous sources have said Zaraqawi was killed by a US helicopter attack months ago when he was unable to move quickly enough to escape the targeted house. While others managed to exit the house in time to survive, he died in the collapsed building.
IF Zaraqawi were killed by our troops, we would have positively identified him. This is speculation!



As any surgeon will testify, the alleged beheading was a fake. A beheading would result in a tremendous amount of spurting blood. There would have been blood everywhere had an actual beheading taken place. When the executioner holds up Berg's head immediately following what is represented as an actual decapitation of a living person, there is no significant blood flow from the neck or blood splatters showing anywhere on the executioner. Furthermore, the cut was simply too neat to have been done crudely and with such amazing speed by a man wielding a knife. Anybody who has ever carved a turkey knows there is something wrong with the supposed beheading. The suspended head looks more like Berg had been neatly beheaded by a guillotine.
I agree with this comment 100%!



The orange jumpsuit was standard US military issue to men in custody. It is unlikely Berg would have continuing wearing a US custodial uniform if he had been released by the military as they claim. The fact he was still wearing the suit is both anomalous and suggestive. One is forced to speculate as to whether there was an immediate transfer of Berg from the US military to unknown persons, thusly preventing Berg from discarding his US prison garb.
The orange jumpsuit is not just issued for military prisoners - it is issued to prisoners everywhere. If you would like to buy one, here are some links!
E-Bay Auction of Orange Jumpsuit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16119&item=4152652883&rd=1)
Arizona Correctional IndustriesNeedle Trade (http://aci.az.gov/needle_trades2.htm)
PXDircet Inmate Uniforms (http://www.pxdirect.com/inmate_u.htm)



Several of the men in the film were fat by Iraqi standards. If they were Feyadeen or Mujahadeen, they probably have been living underground since the first days of the occupation. Tens of thousands of Iraqis have been shown on news stories as they have marched and demonstrated. One would be hard pressed to point out a single fat man among these thousands.
Am I the only one to have "Fat Iraqi" in the news?



Some men had what can only be described as pasty-white hands. Once again, one would be hard pressed to find Arab men with pasty-white hands.
Not all Iraqi are "dark" skinned - this is ridiculous to even assume that since the hands are light skinned that they are American.



The lack of spurting blood suggests Berg was already dead at the time of the alleged decapitation. It is possible Berg's dead body was displayed with his head already partially or totally severed. In any case, he almost certainly was killed before the staged beheading. If so, it suggests the captors had no stomach for an actual beheading of a living person, and they opted to fulfill their assignment quietly and with the least amount of gore.
I have thought since I first saw the video that he was already dead when he was beheaded. If you watched the video, you would have noticed that he did not struggle at all - natural instinct would have been to fight for his life, if he were alive.



The scream that is heard has been interpreted as a woman's scream by many viewers. Videotape cognoscenti have further said the scream was amateurishly added to the tape.
How could he scream if he were already dead?



The U.S. government translation of one statement made on the film is: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" This is a falsification. The actual statement urged fellow insurgents to get off their hind ends and do something. One assumes the translator being used by the US military is a native speaker of Arabic, so this cannot be explained as an innocent flub. This suggests the US government wanted to inject an alleged al- Qaeda group into the murder of Nick Berg.
This one is confusing to me - I do not speak or read Arabic, so I am confused by what this statement says.



Iraqis who have seen the videotape on Arabic news broadcasts are universally saying the men in the film are not Iraqis. Are they saying this partly because the speaker does not employ an Iraqi dialect? Where does their certainty come from?
Do you honestly think that any Iraqi, other than terrorist, would confess to doing this?



Firearms experts have stated the AK-47 carried by one man was a "Gilal." This actually is an Israeli-made weapon that improves on the famous AK- 47. Feyadeen and other insurgents almost universally use AK-47s.
I would assume that they would want to carry the best weapon available, if the weapon is a Gilal - which is an improvement to the AK-47, why not carry it?



The man in the videotape who is purported to be Zarqawi is wearing a gold ring. This is absolutely proscribed by Islamic law.
Again, I ask what does Islamic law say about killing/beheading another human?



The US military has stated that Berg was never in US custody and that he had been in custody of the Iraqi police. The Iraqi police adamantly deny he was ever in their custody. On April 1, an e-mail from Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq, was sent to the family of Nick Berg. It stated that Ms. Payne had located Nick, and he was currently in custody of the US military. We have to conclude that either the email was bogus or the US military has been lying.
The Military had him in custody, and questioned him on three different occasions. I guess that the questioning was related to his being in Iraq and his involvement in the purchase of the tickets for 9/11. (If you have not heard about this, then let me know).



The chair that Berg was seated in during the filming was a standard issue military chair of the exact same kind as seen in a color photo taken at the Abu Ghraib Prison. The chances a terrorist cell would be using this same chair are minimal at best.
Again - I have been in the US Navy for over sixteen years now - I have never seen "a standard issue military chair" that looked like those used in the prison at Abu Ghraib and the Nick Berg Video. However, I HAVE seen the exact same chair at Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, and even while deployed to Egypt, Italy, Spain, and numerous other countries.


There are lots of different opinions out there regarding this video. I ask each of you this:

1. We actually don't know if the beheading was filmed in Iraq or elsewhere.

2. The nature of Berg's business in Iraq is unclear, although we know that he was not there in any official capacity as a contractor.

3. Why would Bergs father be quoted as saying "… I am sure that he only saw the good in his captors until the last second of his life. They did not know what they were doing. They killed their best friend."

4. The event itself did not follow any of the proper practices for beheading in Islam; method, delivery, prayers, etc.

5. It turns out Berg has a history with the FBI (9/11). The FBI interviewed him in an effort to determine the nature of his relationship with Zacarias Moussaoui, as well as certain groups he was a member of.

6.Why would he refuse safe passage to Jordan after being released?

7. Why didn’t anyone at the hotel Berg was allegedly registered at know of him?

ThunderCane
05-21-2004, 08:30 PM
Damn, I knew really nothing about this except what the "Media" has reported.

I read the article andthe 6 points that Big Fin Fan posted I did not know either. Some things I guess we will never know.

Phinzone
05-24-2004, 05:26 PM
I'll say there's always a chance, but it is VERY unlikely that this was staged.

Zarqawi took responsibility for this, as well as the killing of the head of the Iraqi governing council. This wouldn't be admitted if it were false. Iraqi's view this as a blow to them, no one would admit to doing it if it weren't true over there.

That alone speaks volumes. Add in that our governmetn could make a VERY good fake execution tape if they so pleased, and none of us would ever question it outside of the consipiracy theorists.

I also find it humerous that people think we staged a tape to trick the world, yet we can't keep picutres of prisoner abuse under wraps.

BigFinFan
05-24-2004, 10:49 PM
Very true Phinzone!

I do not think that it was staged.