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BigFinFan
06-03-2004, 05:28 PM
Dear Sir:

I am a senior citizen. During the Clinton Administration I had an extremely good and well paying job. I took numerous vacations and had vacations homes.

Since President Bush took office, I have watched my entire life change for the worse. I lost my job. I lost my two sons in that terrible Iraqi War. I lost my home. I lost my health insurance. As a matter of fact, I lost virtually everything and became homeless.

Adding insult to injury, when the authorities found me living like an animal, instead of helping me, they arrested me.

I will do anything to insure President Bush's defeat in the next election.

I will do anything that Senator Kerry wants to insure that a Democrat is back in the White House come next year.

Bush has to go.

I just thought you and your listeners would like to know how one senior citizen views the Bush Administration. Thank you for taking the time to read my letter.

Sincerely,

Sadaam Hussein

Fin_Fanatic
06-03-2004, 05:33 PM
yeah we should definitely put kerry in.... after all thats what all the terrorists would like. cmon now, if kerry wins he'll pull out of iraq just like spain and leave us looking like sissy's in the worlds eyes. i know i personally will never vote for a deserter and a quitter.

BigFinFan
06-03-2004, 05:37 PM
I agree!

Just Say No to Kerry!

DolFan31
06-03-2004, 09:33 PM
Dear Sir:

I am a senior citizen. During the Clinton Administration I had an extremely good and well paying job. I took numerous vacations and had vacations homes.

Since President Bush took office, I have watched my entire life change for the worse. I lost my job. I lost my two sons in that terrible Iraqi War. I lost my home. I lost my health insurance. As a matter of fact, I lost virtually everything and became homeless.

Adding insult to injury, when the authorities found me living like an animal, instead of helping me, they arrested me.

I will do anything to insure President Bush's defeat in the next election.

I will do anything that Senator Kerry wants to insure that a Democrat is back in the White House come next year.

Bush has to go.

I just thought you and your listeners would like to know how one senior citizen views the Bush Administration. Thank you for taking the time to read my letter.

Sincerely,

Sadaam Hussein


Replace the name with any real senior citizen's name and you'll have a more accurate letter.

iceblizzard69
06-03-2004, 10:20 PM
I'm happy that Saddam Hussein is no longer in power, but I wouldn't vote for Bush because of it.

PhinPhan1227
06-03-2004, 11:03 PM
Replace the name with any real senior citizen's name and you'll have a more accurate letter.

A higher percentage of US citizens had health insurance in 2002 than in 1995. I love the misinformation campaigns people get away with.

Phinzone
06-03-2004, 11:17 PM
Replace the name with any real senior citizen's name and you'll have a more accurate letter.

yeah I agree, I can honestly think of no one that fits that description...hmmmm.... :rolleyes:

iceblizzard69
06-04-2004, 08:58 AM
yeah we should definitely put kerry in.... after all thats what all the terrorists would like. cmon now, if kerry wins he'll pull out of iraq just like spain and leave us looking like sissy's in the worlds eyes. i know i personally will never vote for a deserter and a quitter.

Kerry never said that he would leave Iraq. In fact, he said the opposite.

As for the letter, a lot of Americans can relate to some (not all, just some) of the things said in that letter.

DolFan31
06-04-2004, 12:03 PM
Kerry never said that he would leave Iraq. In fact, he said the opposite.

As for the letter, a lot of Americans can relate to some (not all, just some) of the things said in that letter.

And conservative Republicans says "what problems?"

But I guess that happens no matter whos in office.

PhinPhan1227
06-04-2004, 12:05 PM
And conservative Republicans says "what problems?"

But I guess that happens no matter whos in office.


Did you see the latest economic figures DF31? Care to comment?

DolFan31
06-04-2004, 12:35 PM
Did you see the latest economic figures DF31? Care to comment?

Im refering to when conservatives talk about Bush as if he does no wrong.

BigFinFan
06-04-2004, 12:39 PM
I have never said that Bush does no wrong. Everybody does wrong.

At least Bush had enough sense (BALLS) to invade Afghanastan and Iraq. Honestly, if Gore were President, would we have done either?

PhinPhan1227
06-04-2004, 12:42 PM
Im refering to when conservatives talk about Bush as if he does no wrong.

The people who follow Bush blindly are no better or worse than those who harbor a blind hatred of him. The only difference I can see is that at least the blind followers of Bush won't act to inflict the even worse John Kerry on us all. Other than that though...flip sides of the same coin.

DolFan31
06-04-2004, 12:51 PM
I have never said that Bush does no wrong. Everybody does wrong.

At least Bush had enough sense (BALLS) to invade Afghanastan and Iraq. Honestly, if Gore were President, would we have done either?

Any president, except many someone like a Ralph Nader, would have obviously invade Afghanistan. Bill Clinton wanted to invade Afghanistan because they were harboring terrorists like Bin Laden. However, there was no support in a Republican-ruled Congress to do so. You have to remember that it was during a time of 'Scandals" and "wag the dog".

And so far there doesnt appear to be any good justification for invading Iraq.

BigFinFan
06-04-2004, 01:13 PM
Any president, except many someone like a Ralph Nader, would have obviously invade Afghanistan. Bill Clinton wanted to invade Afghanistan because they were harboring terrorists like Bin Laden. However, there was no support in a Republican-ruled Congress to do so. You have to remember that it was during a time of 'Scandals" and "wag the dog".

And so far there doesnt appear to be any good justification for invading Iraq.

The fact that they have WMD's was not a good reason?

The fact that they violated the provisions given to them from Desert Shield/Storm was not a good reason?

The fact that we ended Sadaams terror on his own people was not a good reason?

The fact that we caught Sadaam was not a good reason?

DolFan31
06-04-2004, 01:35 PM
The fact that they have WMD's was not a good reason?

The fact that they violated the provisions given to them from Desert Shield/Storm was not a good reason?

The fact that we ended Sadaams terror on his own people was not a good reason?

The fact that we caught Sadaam was not a good reason?

The fact that we havent found evidence they have WMDs was a good reason?

The fact that there's no evidence Iraq supported terrorism was a good reason?

The facu that there was no Iraqis on those planes that were hijacked on 9/11 was a good reason?

The fact that Iraq is now a terrorist state after we invaded a was a good reason?

The fact that the people hold a grudge against us because when we invaded in '91 and encouraged the people to rise up against Saddam but offered no military support to them and the revolt was crushed and now they hate us and view us as occupiers was a good reason?

The fact that we didnt have a well thought-out post-war plan was a good reason?

The fact that we are less safe and we use up most of our resources into Iraq instead of fighting terrorism elsewhere is a good reason?

The fact we openly support regimes that are just as bad or worse than Saddam(Saudi Arabia, China to name a few) is a good reason?

The fact that we have lost over 800+ soldiers for an unjustified war is a good reason? Explain to their parents their loss was justified.

BigFinFan
06-04-2004, 01:58 PM
The fact that we have lost over 800+ soldiers for an unjustified war is a good reason? Explain to their parents their loss was justified.

Those of us that are currently serving in the Military will tell you that what we are doing IS justified.

WAR, no matter how trivial to the American Citizen IS always justifiable.

Try telling the parents and loved ones of those who gave their lives in defense of this Great Country that their son, daughter, husband, wife, brother, sister, father or mother death was unjustified.

Maybe you just have to walk a mile in our shoes to know that what we do IS justified! We understand that America needs protecting - that is what we do!

http://www.finheaven.com/photo/data/500/2129Freedonm_is_not_Free.jpg

DolFan31
06-04-2004, 02:03 PM
Those of us that are currently serving in the Military will tell you that what we are doing IS justified.

WAR, no matter how trivial to the American Citizen IS always justifiable.

Try telling the parents and loved ones of those who gave their lives in defense of this Great Country that their son, daughter, husband, wife, brother, sister, father or mother death was unjustified.

Maybe you just have to walk a mile in our shoes to know that what we do IS justified! We understand that America needs protecting - that is what we do!

http://www.finheaven.com/photo/data/500/2129Freedonm_is_not_Free.jpg

yes, America needs to be protected, no one argues that, but America also doesnt need to be on the offensive like we are in Iraq. We have our Defense for what it is, DEFENSE! So are you saying the Vietnam War was justified? How about our military interventions in Central America when we overthrew democratically elected officials and replaced them with dictators like in Guatemala and Nicaragua? and Chile?

PhinPhan1227
06-04-2004, 02:06 PM
Any president, except many someone like a Ralph Nader, would have obviously invade Afghanistan. Bill Clinton wanted to invade Afghanistan because they were harboring terrorists like Bin Laden. However, there was no support in a Republican-ruled Congress to do so. You have to remember that it was during a time of 'Scandals" and "wag the dog".

And so far there doesnt appear to be any good justification for invading Iraq.


ROFL!!! Firstly, a President doesn't need Congress to send in troops. That's one of his primary rights as President. If Clinton wanted to go into Afghanistan, there was NOTHING to keep him from doing so.

PhinPhan1227
06-04-2004, 02:15 PM
The fact that we havent found evidence they have WMDs was a good reason?

The fact that there's no evidence Iraq supported terrorism was a good reason?

The facu that there was no Iraqis on those planes that were hijacked on 9/11 was a good reason?

The fact that Iraq is now a terrorist state after we invaded a was a good reason?

The fact that the people hold a grudge against us because when we invaded in '91 and encouraged the people to rise up against Saddam but offered no military support to them and the revolt was crushed and now they hate us and view us as occupiers was a good reason?

The fact that we didnt have a well thought-out post-war plan was a good reason?

The fact that we are less safe and we use up most of our resources into Iraq instead of fighting terrorism elsewhere is a good reason?

The fact we openly support regimes that are just as bad or worse than Saddam(Saudi Arabia, China to name a few) is a good reason?

The fact that we have lost over 800+ soldiers for an unjustified war is a good reason? Explain to their parents their loss was justified.

#1-Iraq did support terrorism, they just didn't support Al Quida...that has been established.

#2-We haven't found WMD stockpiles...we HAVE found evidence of WMD programs.

#3-Al Quida elements entered Iraq after the war. Either we fight them there, or we fight them elsewhere. Personally, I'd rather fight them there.

#4-No argument there...we pussed out.

#5-Again, no argument there...but a badly thought out action is still better than no action.

#6-I disagree. Have we been attacked again since 9/11? Are there still weapons in Libya that were there prior to the invasion?

#7-Saudi Arabia is as oppressive as Saddams Iraq? I didn't realize that Saudi Arabia had mass graves with 6 figures worth of bodies in them from politcal disidents. As for China, talk to Bill C. I don't agree with Bush continuing those policies, but Clinton laid down and spread his legs for those guys.

#8-To a parent who has lost a child, NO justification is worthwhile. But if we are successful at creating a stable Iraq that is able to spread that stability throughout the region, every life lost today in Iraq will have saved hundreds if not thousands of lives in the future.

PhinPhan1227
06-04-2004, 02:16 PM
yes, America needs to be protected, no one argues that, but America also doesnt need to be on the offensive like we are in Iraq. We have our Defense for what it is, DEFENSE! So are you saying the Vietnam War was justified? How about our military interventions in Central America when we overthrew democratically elected officials and replaced them with dictators like in Guatemala and Nicaragua? and Chile?


Horrible analogy. We are doing everything in our power to set up a truly representative government in Iraq. In those other examples we were setting up puppet dictators to combat Communism. HORRIBLE examples.

DolFan31
06-04-2004, 02:25 PM
#1-Iraq did support terrorism, they just didn't support Al Quida...that has been established.

#2-We haven't found WMD stockpiles...we HAVE found evidence of WMD programs.

#3-Al Quida elements entered Iraq after the war. Either we fight them there, or we fight them elsewhere. Personally, I'd rather fight them there.

#4-No argument there...we pussed out.

#5-Again, no argument there...but a badly thought out action is still better than no action.

#6-I disagree. Have we been attacked again since 9/11? Are there still weapons in Libya that were there prior to the invasion?

#7-Saudi Arabia is as oppressive as Saddams Iraq? I didn't realize that Saudi Arabia had mass graves with 6 figures worth of bodies in them from politcal disidents. As for China, talk to Bill C. I don't agree with Bush continuing those policies, but Clinton laid down and spread his legs for those guys.

#8-To a parent who has lost a child, NO justification is worthwhile. But if we are successful at creating a stable Iraq that is able to spread that stability throughout the region, every life lost today in Iraq will have saved hundreds if not thousands of lives in the future.

#1 - Show me the evidence.

#2 - If countries dont have the right to have WMD, should we then disarm ourselves and force countires like Great Britian and Israel to do the same?

#3 - We need to fight al Queda elsewhere to. We dont have a choice now where we fight them, and we never really did and we still dont.

#4 - We pussed out for reasons Bush I said would happen that are happening now.

#5 - Agreed, but its still a bad decision that needs rethinking by our supposed "experts".

#6 - Just because we havent been attacked since 9/11 doesnt mean it wont happen. No one should think al Queda will strike too early. They will probably do what they did on 9/11: attack us when we're vulnerable. Libya yes, but what about Syria? Sudan?

#7 - I dont expect to hear too much negative news about an ally unless its the French. You can go back to Nixon for issues reguarding China.

#8 - I truly hope so.

DolFan31
06-04-2004, 02:27 PM
Horrible analogy. We are doing everything in our power to set up a truly representative government in Iraq. In those other examples we were setting up puppet dictators to combat Communism. HORRIBLE examples.

I wasnt comparing them like that. I was saying not all military intervention is justifiable or necessary.

PhinPhan1227
06-04-2004, 02:53 PM
#1 - Show me the evidence.

#2 - If countries dont have the right to have WMD, should we then disarm ourselves and force countires like Great Britian and Israel to do the same?

#3 - We need to fight al Queda elsewhere to. We dont have a choice now where we fight them, and we never really did and we still dont.

#4 - We pussed out for reasons Bush I said would happen that are happening now.

#5 - Agreed, but its still a bad decision that needs rethinking by our supposed "experts".

#6 - Just because we havent been attacked since 9/11 doesnt mean it wont happen. No one should think al Queda will strike too early. They will probably do what they did on 9/11: attack us when we're vulnerable. Libya yes, but what about Syria? Sudan?

#7 - I dont expect to hear too much negative news about an ally unless its the French. You can go back to Nixon for issues reguarding China.

#8 - I truly hope so.

#1-The evidence for WMD programs has already been presented and is not in dispute. It's the stockpiles which justified the "imminent threat" stance that are in dispute.

#2-Countries that have shown themselves to be beligerent to their neighbors, and a willingness to use those WMD's do not have a right to have them. Nor do countries like Libya who have actively and openly supported terrorists.

#3-And we're still fighting Al Quida elsewhere. But if the Iraq war has drawn them and many of their leaders into Iraq...nifty.

#4-done

#5-A badly thought out plan, and the action itself are two different things. The plan for the post invasion is pretty scruffy...the decision on the invasion itself is sound in my opinion.

#6-Sudan just kicked their Syrian WMD's out of their country rather than risk being the next Iraq. Or did you miss that story?

#7-There have never been complaints about mass killings in Saudi Arabia. If there were, you would have heard it. There are always disidents willing to spread the news. As for Nixon, he got everyones fingers off their triggers...but he didn't sell them the bullets the way Clinton did.

#8-Done.

PhinPhan1227
06-04-2004, 02:56 PM
I wasnt comparing them like that. I was saying not all military intervention is justifiable or necessary.

I certainly agree that not all intervention is justified. I think that BigFan was speaking from the perspective of the soldiers and their families however. To them, so long as the soldier was doing his duty, he was and is personally justified in his actions. That's my interpretation of his post at least.

BigFinFan
06-04-2004, 03:20 PM
There is so much more going on than the Average Citizen knows. American Citizens would totally flip if they knew EVERYTHING that was truly going on!

DolFan31
06-04-2004, 03:23 PM
There is so much more going on than the Average Citizen knows. American Citizens would totally flip if they knew EVERYTHING that was truly going on!

Agreed, and I probably wouldnt want to know most of it either.

BigFinFan
06-04-2004, 03:27 PM
The best quote in reference to the Military

"Son, we live in a world that has walls and those walls need to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and curse the Marines; you have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives and that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."