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paul13
06-16-2004, 01:37 AM
Has Micheal Moore gone to far. Dose Micheal Moore's new movie have any

Credibility at all . After all it is riten and directed by a unbiased person, so my

queston is should Moore new movie be considerd a biography or a fictional story

TerryTate
06-16-2004, 02:33 AM
I consider most of my viewpoints to be liberal, but even I know that Michael Moore is totally biased...i hope that was a typo on your part.

Clumpy
06-16-2004, 02:42 AM
No he hasn't.

ohall
06-16-2004, 03:51 AM
Someone would have to be totally dettached from reality to think any of his movies are biographical. The reason the French/Europeans love him so much is because he is their stereo typical FAT American. The guy is so dense he doesn't even realize he is Europes clown. He's done more to aid and empower the enemy than any liberal star I know of. One day I hope he grows a conscience.

Oliver...

Clumpy
06-16-2004, 04:46 AM
:rofl:

I wonder if Moore has had a drug addiction(Rush Limbaugh), gambling addiction(Bill Bennett), or adultery(Newt Gingrich) :shakeno:

Fin_Fanatic
06-16-2004, 05:23 AM
:rofl:

I wonder if Moore has had a drug addiction(Rush Limbaugh), gambling addiction(Bill Bennett), or adultery(Newt Gingrich) :shakeno:
he hasnt done any of those things, your right there. he did however sell out his country to make some money overseas.......if you dont like the US that much, then move out, we wouldnt miss him thats for sure. :fire:

Clumpy
06-16-2004, 09:46 AM
So, if you're against Georgie, you're un-American?

ltfinfan
06-16-2004, 10:41 AM
let him make his movies he just makes the left look like their nuts

PhinPhan1227
06-16-2004, 10:49 AM
:rofl:

I wonder if Moore has had a drug addiction(Rush Limbaugh), gambling addiction(Bill Bennett), or adultery(Newt Gingrich) :shakeno:


I KNOW you didn't bring up adultry in an attack on the REPUBLICAN party. Now that's chutzpah!!

ltfinfan
06-16-2004, 10:51 AM
I KNOW you didn't bring up adultry in an attack on the REPUBLICAN party. Now that's chutzpah!!

what about murder(ted kennedy) :roflmao:

TerryTate
06-16-2004, 10:58 AM
Good point Clumpy....

PhinPhan1227
06-16-2004, 11:14 AM
what about murder(ted kennedy) :roflmao:


Remember when the Kennedy cousin(Willaim Kennedy Smith) was arrested? The joke at the time was that he screwed up...if he had let Uncle Ted drive her home he never would have had a problem. :eek: :eek:

ThunderCane
06-16-2004, 11:44 AM
I never speak my mind on politics on this board, cause it is a personal point of view.
Politics is nothing but opinions so solidify a persons stance on what side of the fence they are on.
That is why I "HATE" both parties Dems and Reps...all they care about is what is in the best interest for their filthy-rich supporters.
When I see Michael Moore getting bashed and question if he has any merritt., it really boils my blood.

"should Moore new movie be considerd a biography or a fictional story?"
It is a total biographical, you want fiction read the reports of WMD in Iraq.

"I know that Michael Moore is totally biased"
How do you know this, you work for FCC?

"Someone would have to be totally dettached from reality to think any of his movies are biographical. The reason the French/Europeans love him so much is because he is their stereo typical FAT American. The guy is so dense he doesn't even realize he is Europes clown. He's done more to aid and empower the enemy than any liberal star I know of. One day I hope he grows a conscience."
Like the conscience of Bush letting Bin Laden slip out through our fingers cause we where busy going after Sadam.


"he hasnt done any of those things, your right there. he did however sell out his country to make some money overseas.......if you dont like the US that much, then move out, we wouldnt miss him thats for sure."
I did not know that Disney was owned by France...ohhh Euro Disney right? Wait, Disney was affraid to pay taxes in the state of Florida. So Miramax Films, which is wholly-owned by the Walt Disney Company, sold the disterbutions rights to Lions Gate Films and IFC Films.
IFC Films (owned by Cablevision—no AOL Time Warner, but no slouch either), Lions Gate (one of a very few truly independent distributors with the power to command multiplex screens), and a new, badly named company formed by the Weinstein brothers, the Fellowship Adventure Group. Cabelvision is owned by group in NY...could not find out who is that group.

ltfinfan
06-16-2004, 11:54 AM
I never speak my mind on politics on this board, cause it is a personal point of view.
Politics is nothing but opinions so solidify a persons stance on what side of the fence they are on.
That is why I "HATE" both parties Dems and Reps...all they care about is what is in the best interest for their filthy-rich supporters.
When I see Michael Moore getting bashed and question if he has any merritt., it really boils my blood.

"should Moore new movie be considerd a biography or a fictional story?"
It is a total biographical, you want fiction read the reports of WMD in Iraq.

"I know that Michael Moore is totally biased"
How do you know this, you work for FCC?

"Someone would have to be totally dettached from reality to think any of his movies are biographical. The reason the French/Europeans love him so much is because he is their stereo typical FAT American. The guy is so dense he doesn't even realize he is Europes clown. He's done more to aid and empower the enemy than any liberal star I know of. One day I hope he grows a conscience."
Like the conscience of Bush letting Bin Laden slip out through our fingers cause we where busy going after Sadam.


"he hasnt done any of those things, your right there. he did however sell out his country to make some money overseas.......if you dont like the US that much, then move out, we wouldnt miss him thats for sure."
I did not know that Disney was owned by France...ohhh Euro Disney right? Wait, Disney was affraid to pay taxes in the state of Florida. So Miramax Films, which is wholly-owned by the Walt Disney Company, sold the disterbutions rights to Lions Gate Films and IFC Films.
IFC Films (owned by Cablevision—no AOL Time Warner, but no slouch either), Lions Gate (one of a very few truly independent distributors with the power to command multiplex screens), and a new, badly named company formed by the Weinstein brothers, the Fellowship Adventure Group. Cabelvision is owned by group in NY...could not find out who is that group.



wow for some one who hates both parties you sure are biased

ThunderCane
06-16-2004, 11:57 AM
Yes I am...BIASED with the FACTS!

All I stated where facts.

ltfinfan
06-16-2004, 12:08 PM
should Moore new movie be considerd a biography or a fictional story?"
It is a total biographical, you want fiction read the reports of WMD in Iraq

um the un inspectors said that iraq moved the wmd's before and during the war

you report the facts huh?

BigFinFan
06-16-2004, 12:08 PM
"should Moore new movie be considerd a biography or a fictional story?"

It is a total biographical, you want fiction read the reports of WMD in Iraq.

How do you know this, do you work for NSA, FBI, CIA, DISA?

What are you basing your knowledge on?

Have you been to Iraq and personally inspected the area?

ThunderCane
06-16-2004, 12:22 PM
"um the un inspectors said that iraq moved the wmd's before and during the war

you report the facts huh?"
Sorry I was not more specific....The reports of WMD to get Americans to support the intitial start of the war...Where strongly and mainly based on the "production" of WMD and extreme quantities of these WMD. Yes, there was some, how much we will never know, WMD left over from the Persian Gulf War and thoes where move...that is correct. The misleading reports of continuing mass "production" of WMD is what I was hitting on. I am not a reporter...I am just restating the facts.

"How do you know this, do you work for NSA, FBI, CIA, DISA?

What are you basing your knowledge on?

Have you been to Iraq and personally inspected the area?"

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope....I am basing my knowledge from watching and reading the same facts that everyone else has access to. No I have not been to Iraq, thank god! But Micheal Moore has.

BigFinFan
06-16-2004, 12:52 PM
"I am not a reporter...I am just restating the facts."

:eek:
I hope that you do not believe everything that reporters tell you! The media is only going to tell you what they know - and they DO NOT know everything!
:shakeno:


"I am basing my knowledge from watching and reading the same facts that everyone else has access to". No I have not been to Iraq, thank god! But Micheal Moore has.

You do not have access to ALL of the facts. Why is this so hard for people to believe? The general public is only privy to 30 - 40 percent of what is actually going on. If the average American citizen knew the whole truth, they would be ****ting in their pants! That is a FACT!

I have been to Iraq - Michael Moore doesn't know ****!

PhinPhan1227
06-16-2004, 01:20 PM
Yes I am...BIASED with the FACTS!

All I stated where facts.


"Like the conscience of Bush letting Bin Laden slip out through our fingers cause we where busy going after Sadam."

Um...has anyone explained the difference between a fact and an opinion to you?

PhinPhan1227
06-16-2004, 01:22 PM
Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope....I am basing my knowledge from watching and reading the same facts that everyone else has access to. No I have not been to Iraq, thank god! But Micheal Moore has.


Um...when did Michael Moore go to Iraq?

ThunderCane
06-16-2004, 01:37 PM
I am proud that you seved for "US" and I understand he does not know all the facts. NO one does! The problem is the "public is only privy to 30 - 40 percent of what is actually going on" I know that most will argue that the american public can't HANDEL the facts and panic. Well, America proved it can handle it on 9-11-2001.
But my whole point is that Moore, like eveyone of us, has a point of view. And to totaly disregard what he is reporting...then you must totaly disregard all what has been or will be reported by all reporters. So believe no one? Nahh, I am not like that. Their is 3 sides to a story in this world, the 2 sides and the truth. So to get to the truth you must listen and hope you will find some truth.

BigFinFan
06-16-2004, 01:42 PM
Like I have said many times before - Reporters only report what they know. They only know what we (The Military) let them know.

TerryTate
06-16-2004, 01:46 PM
The bottom line for me with the Iraq war has always been WMD, and that was the original main purpose for invading iraq, if they invaded iraq with the intentions of getting weapons, then they shouldve got weapons. They are smart enough to know that Iraq wouldve attempted to get them out of the country. That's why while I supported the war, the longer it goes on, the less I support it, and I hope that the Bush Administration gets Iraq to have a successful and stable government. However, history provides a good lesson that in that region especially, western forms of government simply do not work, but we shall see.

Section126
06-16-2004, 02:02 PM
You know that MM's film is crap when you can debunk the trailer.

What is so funny is that he uses Richard Clarke as his source on some things and when Richard Clarke contradicts one of his "points", he then ignores that part in the film and completely makes it up from thin air.

Example: Moore says in the film that the Whitehouse authorized that the Bin Laden Family members could leave the country after 9/11.

Richard Clarke says that HE authorized it because it was standard procedure and these family members had disowned Bin Laden and were fine people. Moore doesn't mention it.

What is the "tie" to the Bin Laden's and the Bushes?

Get ready for this:

Moore says that GWB had a buddy in college that later served in the Air National Guard with Bush who had at one time worked for a company that had been owned by Bush Sr. and that Bush Sr. had sold the company to a member of the Bin Laden Family that inturn had sold it to a friend of GWB's in the National Guard. The friend of GWB's had been in the Oil business with Bush Sr. and had done business before with the Bin Laden Family.

Another tidbit: When Moore went to congress to ask congressmen to sign up their kids to go to Iraq, One congressman from Arizona had stated on camera that he had two nephews in theatre and would be glad to help sign up people for service. He was cut out of the film.

There is also a scene in the movie that shows a jubilant Iraqi wedding with people dancing in the street, loving life and then..........pictures of us bombing the hell out of them and dead civilians.....He made the scene look like we were bombing Atlanta or Tampa.......

The Film is Nazi style Propaganda and is about as much a Documentry as Star Wars is a Documentry.

ThunderCane
06-16-2004, 02:02 PM
The panel investigating the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks found that there was "no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States," according to a staff report released today. The report contradicts recent statements from the Bush administration that Saddam Hussein had ties to al Qaeda.http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/16/911.commission/index.html

ThunderCane
06-16-2004, 02:09 PM
I like to add....I not saying that rat bastard Saddam Hussein did not some how help al Qaeda .
In fact I believe he did.

Phinzone
06-16-2004, 02:12 PM
I never speak my mind on politics on this board, cause it is a personal point of view.
Politics is nothing but opinions so solidify a persons stance on what side of the fence they are on.
That is why I "HATE" both parties Dems and Reps...all they care about is what is in the best interest for their filthy-rich supporters.
When I see Michael Moore getting bashed and question if he has any merritt., it really boils my blood.

"should Moore new movie be considerd a biography or a fictional story?"
It is a total biographical, you want fiction read the reports of WMD in Iraq.

"I know that Michael Moore is totally biased"
How do you know this, you work for FCC?

"Someone would have to be totally dettached from reality to think any of his movies are biographical. The reason the French/Europeans love him so much is because he is their stereo typical FAT American. The guy is so dense he doesn't even realize he is Europes clown. He's done more to aid and empower the enemy than any liberal star I know of. One day I hope he grows a conscience."
Like the conscience of Bush letting Bin Laden slip out through our fingers cause we where busy going after Sadam.


"he hasnt done any of those things, your right there. he did however sell out his country to make some money overseas.......if you dont like the US that much, then move out, we wouldnt miss him thats for sure."
I did not know that Disney was owned by France...ohhh Euro Disney right? Wait, Disney was affraid to pay taxes in the state of Florida. So Miramax Films, which is wholly-owned by the Walt Disney Company, sold the disterbutions rights to Lions Gate Films and IFC Films.
IFC Films (owned by Cablevision—no AOL Time Warner, but no slouch either), Lions Gate (one of a very few truly independent distributors with the power to command multiplex screens), and a new, badly named company formed by the Weinstein brothers, the Fellowship Adventure Group. Cabelvision is owned by group in NY...could not find out who is that group.

For one that "reports" the facts, you sure omit the important ones.

FACT: Iraq had and was developing WMD

FACT: The UN just released a report saying Iraq DID have WMD, and moved them PRIOR the America's invasion

FACT: Saddam supports terrorism. You must have missed the name of this war...the war on TERRORISM, not the War on Osama Bin Laden :shakeno: . Bush STILL has a very vast net of soldiers looking for Bin Laden in Afghanistan. Only a fool would say we abandoned the search for Bin Laden. Do you think we need 140k troops looking for Bin Laden? Would that help? Hell no! We have millitary in the area that train the Afghan's to make their own millitary, while special forces and afghan trained millitary hunt for him.

As for "making money overseas", you seriously misread his intent. The VAST majority of income from this movie will NOT be in America, it will come from European countries with deep felt anti-american sentiments (just like bowling for columbine, look up where the majority of the gross was buddy). As a sidenote...if you don't see Michale Moore as being totally biased, there is no hope of reasoning with you as a human being. If this is truely the case, your a puppet of his self proclaimed war, a thoughtless minion who has wrongfuly been told that your "thoughtful". The recommended cure for this is shock therapy......

ThunderCane
06-16-2004, 03:05 PM
HAHAAHA!!!!
Then you sound like a ranting extremist.
You like interjecting words in to peoples thoughts, be proud of that.
I never said "we abandoned the search for Bin Laden." So you must be the fool.
And "YES" we need every solider to get that low life scum bag. That is what should have been done from the begining. Get that bastard first! Then go after Sadam!
And again "WE" all are biased in our opions. And thank you for not concsidering me as human. That is the best compliment I have gotten today. I wounder why we have deep felt anti-american sentiments in europe. And shock thearpy has been tried it failed. The batteries ran out on the taser gun. LMAO

Opions are like azz-holes...everyone has got 1.
Some people have 2.

iceblizzard69
06-16-2004, 03:10 PM
I don't like Bush but I can't stand Michael Moore. His work is obviously slanted and is created to serve a liberal audience (duh). They don't tell the whole story and are created to make people believe a certain thing. He has a right to criticize Bush all he wants and promote his beliefs, but I'm just not going to support them. I have no interest in seeing his movie.

pgsmelt
06-16-2004, 03:12 PM
The terrorist like the vietnamese know that they cannot win on the battlefield.....them must win in the american homes...on tv..newspapers....movies....they are positioning themselves for a shot at our elections like what happened in spain........and moore's film is a blatant attempt to influence the elections......funny.....wonder why there is no film on clinton and the democrats????.....there is more than enough "material"

PhinPhan1227
06-16-2004, 03:17 PM
HAHAAHA!!!!
Then you sound like a ranting extremist.
You like interjecting words in to peoples thoughts, be proud of that.
I never said "we abandoned the search for Bin Laden." So you must be the fool.
And "YES" we need every solider to get that low life scum bag. That is what should have been done from the begining. Get that bastard first! Then go after Sadam!
And again "WE" all are biased in our opions. And thank you for not concsidering me as human. That is the best compliment I have gotten today. I wounder why we have deep felt anti-american sentiments in europe. And shock thearpy has been tried it failed. The batteries ran out on the taser gun. LMAO

Opions are like azz-holes...everyone has got 1.
Some people have 2.

Two points...

#1-Troops were allocated to the search for Bin Laden. Not only would more troops probably not have made an impact, more troops might not have been possible. Try to bear in mind tht we are working on another countries soil. Sure they allowed the troops that we have there now, but do you hnoestly believe they would have allowed more than 100k troops in?

#2-I can discount Michael Morres opinions and works because they are screamingly biased. In the same vein, I discount anything that comes from Pat Buchanan. They may be speaking the utter truth, but they are so tainted by their own biases that I can't afford to lend them any credence. I can and do lend OTHER sources quite a bit of credence. That's called judgement. So no, by discounting Moore I do NOT have to discount all other reporters.

BigFinFan
06-16-2004, 03:34 PM
Opions are like azz-holes...everyone has got 1.
Some people have 2.

Your statement is grotesquely inaccurate!

Opinions are like a$$holes! Everybody has one, and they all stink!

ohall
06-16-2004, 03:40 PM
:rofl:

I wonder if Moore has had a drug addiction(Rush Limbaugh), gambling addiction(Bill Bennett), or adultery(Newt Gingrich) :shakeno:

A prescription drug addiction, there's a huge difference between that and your implication. Gingrich would not be the 1st person to commit adultery, never mind what political party they are a member of.

I'm always amazed how so many DEM's hate ppl who judge others, yet so many DEM's constantly judge others based only on their political affiliation. The same acts are committed by DEM's and not one word is ever mentioned about that.

Oliver...

ohall
06-16-2004, 03:41 PM
So, if you're against Georgie, you're un-American?

No when you lie about your country and it's government for $ and that government is America then yes you are un-American. No there's no doubt about that.

Why didn't Moore make a movie about Clintons personal war against Kosovo? After all Clinton went to war without the worlds approval.

Oliver...

ohall
06-16-2004, 03:43 PM
"um the un inspectors said that iraq moved the wmd's before and during the war

you report the facts huh?"
Sorry I was not more specific....The reports of WMD to get Americans to support the intitial start of the war...Where strongly and mainly based on the "production" of WMD and extreme quantities of these WMD. Yes, there was some, how much we will never know, WMD left over from the Persian Gulf War and thoes where move...that is correct. The misleading reports of continuing mass "production" of WMD is what I was hitting on. I am not a reporter...I am just restating the facts.

"How do you know this, do you work for NSA, FBI, CIA, DISA?

What are you basing your knowledge on?

Have you been to Iraq and personally inspected the area?"

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope....I am basing my knowledge from watching and reading the same facts that everyone else has access to. No I have not been to Iraq, thank god! But Micheal Moore has.

Tell me why did we goto war during WW2 in Europe, to save the Jews?

Oliver...

Phinzone
06-16-2004, 03:45 PM
No when you lie about your country and it's government for $ and that government is America then yes you are un-American. No there's no doubt about that.

Why didn't Moore make a movie about Clintons personal war against Kosovo? After all Clinton went to war without the worlds approval.

Oliver...

I think that's obvious. I mean, not only would he need to show that it was his personal war with kosovo, but he'd also have to shot that a democrat president committed adultery *shocked gasp*

ohall
06-16-2004, 03:47 PM
The bottom line for me with the Iraq war has always been WMD, and that was the original main purpose for invading iraq, if they invaded iraq with the intentions of getting weapons, then they shouldve got weapons. They are smart enough to know that Iraq wouldve attempted to get them out of the country. That's why while I supported the war, the longer it goes on, the less I support it, and I hope that the Bush Administration gets Iraq to have a successful and stable government. However, history provides a good lesson that in that region especially, western forms of government simply do not work, but we shall see.

Well good for you, but that was not the only reason for the war. The reason we invaded Iraq was because of 13-years of failed diplomacy with Iraq. If Saddam was not a madman and did not have ties to terrorist odds we never would have invaded. The straw that broke the camels back was 9/11. We could no longer hope Saddam would not sell or give his known WMD to them to attack us here on our soil. The entire world agreed Saddam had WMD. Now if you want to believe the lie that is not true, then it's pointless to even get into any kind of discussion about this.

Oliver...

ohall
06-16-2004, 03:49 PM
The panel investigating the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks found that there was "no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States," according to a staff report released today. The report contradicts recent statements from the Bush administration that Saddam Hussein had ties to al Qaeda.http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/16/911.commission/index.html

Who ever said Saddam was in on the 9/11 attack? The only ppl I ever hear say that are DEM's.

Oliver...

ohall
06-16-2004, 03:50 PM
The terrorist like the vietnamese know that they cannot win on the battlefield.....them must win in the american homes...on tv..newspapers....movies....they are positioning themselves for a shot at our elections like what happened in spain........and moore's film is a blatant attempt to influence the elections......funny.....wonder why there is no film on clinton and the democrats????.....there is more than enough "material"

Man I love it when ppl use their common sense. I couldn't agree with you more!

Oliver...

ohall
06-16-2004, 03:54 PM
I think that's obvious. I mean, not only would he need to show that it was his personal war with kosovo, but he'd also have to shot that a democrat president committed adultery *shocked gasp*

Even worse and more to the point IMO, Moore would have to show that Clinton was only impeached because he lied under oath.

Oliver...

BigFinFan
06-16-2004, 03:59 PM
IRT WMD's

"A former Lt. Colonel in the Iraqi Army, who apparently had been a spy for years and is now working for the Iraqi Governing Council, says that Iraq did too have weapons of mass destruction. He says he saw them, that they were designed to be launched by hand-held rockets, and were to be used only on the personal orders of Saddam Hussein."

WMD Evidence (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/GuestColumns/Bryant20031212.shtml)

TerryTate
06-16-2004, 04:27 PM
Well good for you, but that was not the only reason for the war. The reason we invaded Iraq was because of 13-years of failed diplomacy with Iraq. If Saddam was not a madman and did not have ties to terrorist odds we never would have invaded. The straw that broke the camels back was 9/11. We could no longer hope Saddam would not sell or give his known WMD to them to attack us here on our soil. The entire world agreed Saddam had WMD. Now if you want to believe the lie that is not true, then it's pointless to even get into any kind of discussion about this.

Oliver...

Bush used WMD as the main reason to go to war, not the reasons that you are saying, and if he did go to war because of your reasoning, then he didnt say it was about that as much as he did about WMD.

Did I think Iraq had WMD?
Yes

Did I think the US couldve done a better job handling Iraq?
Absolutely

What's frustrating me the most about this is the loss of american lives, many of which are coming after the so-called WMD has disappeared from that country and after saddam and his regime were oustered, now its extremists blowing up our men that can be found in any islamic country.

The way we are handling this war, we could do better....

ohall
06-16-2004, 04:47 PM
Bush used WMD as the main reason to go to war, not the reasons that you are saying, and if he did go to war because of your reasoning, then he didnt say it was about that as much as he did about WMD.

Did I think Iraq had WMD?
Yes

Did I think the US couldve done a better job handling Iraq?
Absolutely

What's frustrating me the most about this is the loss of american lives, many of which are coming after the so-called WMD has disappeared from that country and after saddam and his regime were oustered, now its extremists blowing up our men that can be found in any islamic country.

The way we are handling this war, we could do better....

The loss of life is horrible, but it is very low as far as wars go. It's high for an occupation, but our soldiers are there fighting disgruntled ex-Baathis and insurgence, also known as terrorist. In short the way I see things is it's better to have our soldiers engaging and killing terrorist on foreign soil than on our soil while innocent citizens die by the thosands in just a matter of hours.

I still say the main reason this country went to war with Iraq was because of 13-years of failed deplomacy by the UN. At some point the dog has to bite for ppl to continue to fear that dog. Pre-invasion America was once again thought to be weak, and very much scared to engage nations that were sticking their middle finger at us. Thankfully we now have a President who understand the only way some countries respect you is to put them in their place by force. Why do you think Lybia turned over it's WMD program to the US, because they love this country? They turned it over because they didn't want to be next!

Handle the war better? Sure why not, second guessing anything is always an easy thing to do.

Oliver...

ltfinfan
06-16-2004, 04:53 PM
Ohall is my hero

paul13
06-17-2004, 01:33 AM
Im glad to finely say conservatives and liberals agree on one thing that Michael Moore has no credibility. You see everyone moore is making us closer.

TerryTate
06-17-2004, 02:50 AM
I really hope Kerry doesnt involve himself with Moore and vice-versa, that will blow up in his face.

I can second-guess this administration all I want because I didn't vote for this guy and had I been 18 I wouldve voted against Bush. I get to vote for the first time this November and will hopefully make a difference.

It definitely is evident that this plan that Bush had after the ouster of Saddam's regime apparently didnt have some solid "Plan Bs" so to speak, because its been everything BUT smooth sailing after the war. History tells us that we suck in wars involving Guerilla warfare, thats why we are suffering so many casualties. Does this war necessarily mean that we will prevent an attack on our soil...hell no! It "possibly" helps decrease the chances....the WMD was never found there, and if the theory is right that it was smuggled out of the country, then its clear that our troops dying every day over there isnt really helping as much as we thought.

Here's a question I have to ask. Saddam wasnt parading his weapons, showing them off, etc. before our invasion. However, North Korea was, why not go in there and take care of business instead of Iraq? Or did hte US and North Korea reach an agreement? Let me know, I seriously dont know if N. Korea did or did not sign any agreement.

Fin_Fanatic
06-17-2004, 06:05 AM
I really hope Kerry doesnt involve himself with Moore and vice-versa, that will blow up in his face.

I can second-guess this administration all I want because I didn't vote for this guy and had I been 18 I wouldve voted against Bush. I get to vote for the first time this November and will hopefully make a difference.

It definitely is evident that this plan that Bush had after the ouster of Saddam's regime apparently didnt have some solid "Plan Bs" so to speak, because its been everything BUT smooth sailing after the war. History tells us that we suck in wars involving Guerilla warfare, thats why we are suffering so many casualties. Does this war necessarily mean that we will prevent an attack on our soil...hell no! It "possibly" helps decrease the chances....the WMD was never found there, and if the theory is right that it was smuggled out of the country, then its clear that our troops dying every day over there isnt really helping as much as we thought.

Here's a question I have to ask. Saddam wasnt parading his weapons, showing them off, etc. before our invasion. However, North Korea was, why not go in there and take care of business instead of Iraq? Or did hte US and North Korea reach an agreement? Let me know, I seriously dont know if N. Korea did or did not sign any agreement.
i have to say i disagree with you. while the past shows we have done poorly when guerilla warfare is being used, it is because of other reasons as well. both vietnam and korea, the majority of the country was against the war so the soldiers werent being reinforced or protected the way they should. i'm starting to see this with our forces in iraq and its starting to worry me. also, taking the war to them, is the ONLY WAY to keep them from attacking over here again. they dont care about race, gender, or religious affliation, they will kill whoever and whatever it takes to "win against the devils." the best defense is a good offense. by keeping them occupied in iraq, afghanistan, etc. we prevent any large scale attacks on US soil. however, the longer the warfare in these countries goes on, the more chances they will cut some losses and try to strike the US again. i wouldnt be suprised if they tried to attack the US in much the same way they did spain, to hopefully sway public opinion and hopefully pull us out of the middle east. they want their camps and places to plan back.

i see where your coming from with the N. Korea example but thats alot more difficult than an iraq or afghanistan. first of all they have the largest standing army in the world and will not hesitate to use it against S. Korea if they feel threatened. also, while i would hate for this to be true, they might already have short range WMD like chemical weapons that they could use on japan and china. we are doing the same thing we did with iraq first: First, diplomatic measures. using other countries ( china namely ) to pressure them to stop making them. if this doesnt work, then we might use sanctions against them, although they do nothing but hurt the people not the regime. finally we would probably work on military action against the country. this is a states USUAL logical order of things. of course i'm not GWB and i dont get regular updates, so we could just go straight to war too and skip all the middle stuff.

PhinPhan1227
06-17-2004, 01:29 PM
I really hope Kerry doesnt involve himself with Moore and vice-versa, that will blow up in his face.

I can second-guess this administration all I want because I didn't vote for this guy and had I been 18 I wouldve voted against Bush. I get to vote for the first time this November and will hopefully make a difference.

It definitely is evident that this plan that Bush had after the ouster of Saddam's regime apparently didnt have some solid "Plan Bs" so to speak, because its been everything BUT smooth sailing after the war. History tells us that we suck in wars involving Guerilla warfare, thats why we are suffering so many casualties. Does this war necessarily mean that we will prevent an attack on our soil...hell no! It "possibly" helps decrease the chances....the WMD was never found there, and if the theory is right that it was smuggled out of the country, then its clear that our troops dying every day over there isnt really helping as much as we thought.

Here's a question I have to ask. Saddam wasnt parading his weapons, showing them off, etc. before our invasion. However, North Korea was, why not go in there and take care of business instead of Iraq? Or did hte US and North Korea reach an agreement? Let me know, I seriously dont know if N. Korea did or did not sign any agreement.


N Korea is a different animal for several reasons....none of which were present in Iraq.

#1-Terrain-N Korea is a BEAST of a country to fight in. It's all mountains. LOTS of casualties, even in a conventional war. And the only way in is through the DMZ which is the most heavily mined/fortified spot on the planet

#2-They have nukes, and they'll use them. Again, MASSIVE casualties.

#3-They're China's problem as much as ours. As such, China can be used to bring pressure. Further, attacking N. Korea would have brought some kind of response from China.

#4-Despite starving them and abusing them, the leader of N. Korea is held as almost a god by his citizens. We would have to fight every man woman and child in N Korea.

#6-The present ruler has demonstrated no willingness to attack his neighbors. In a nutshell, he's done nothing wrong to anyone but his own populaton.

Agua
06-17-2004, 03:45 PM
Like Thundercane, I too HATE politics and politicians as well as left and right wing whackos.

Unlike Thundercane, I can see Michael Moore for the lying, hypocritical, fanatical POS that he is. He edits interviews to piece together a sham for the purpose of pushing the point that HE wants conveyed, then deceitfully packages his crap as "documentary". It is wholly fictional work.

I am astounded that someone such as Thundercane with the ability to see that modern political parties are a farce cannot see that crap that Michael Moore dumps on the world (puns intended), is some of the WORST propoganda of all.

themole
06-18-2004, 02:01 PM
"um the un inspectors said that iraq moved the wmd's before and during the war

you report the facts huh?"
Sorry I was not more specific....The reports of WMD to get Americans to support the intitial start of the war...Where strongly and mainly based on the "production" of WMD and extreme quantities of these WMD. Yes, there was some, how much we will never know, WMD left over from the Persian Gulf War and thoes where move...that is correct. The misleading reports of continuing mass "production" of WMD is what I was hitting on. I am not a reporter...I am just restating the facts.

"How do you know this, do you work for NSA, FBI, CIA, DISA?

What are you basing your knowledge on?

Have you been to Iraq and personally inspected the area?"

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope....I am basing my knowledge from watching and reading the same facts that everyone else has access to. No I have not been to Iraq, thank god! But Micheal Moore has.


What the NY Times? :roflmao:

themole
06-18-2004, 02:27 PM
The bottom line for me with the Iraq war has always been WMD, and that was the original main purpose for invading iraq, if they invaded iraq with the intentions of getting weapons, then they shouldve got weapons. They are smart enough to know that Iraq wouldve attempted to get them out of the country. That's why while I supported the war, the longer it goes on, the less I support it, and I hope that the Bush Administration gets Iraq to have a successful and stable government. However, history provides a good lesson that in that region especially, western forms of government simply do not work, but we shall see.


TT..mull this over.

THE CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS AND THE GREAT CALIPHATE
> by Larry Abraham, January 29, 2004
>
> I urge all of my readers to make copies of this report ! and send them to
> your friends and relatives. The information is too critical to be over
> looked
> in the madness of this election year.
>
> Watching and listening to the Democrat Party candidates is tantamount to
> enduring the Chinese water torture. The blah, blah, blah goes on and on
> and nothing of value comes out except the pain of listening to the same
> nothingness over and over again. I won't take the time or space to repeat
> what you have heard so many mind numbing times but what you have not heard
> is crucial.
> President Bush and his administration spokesmen are not telling the
> American people what they really need to know about this "war." If they
> don't do that between now and November it may cost them the election.
>
> The war against terror did not begin on September 11, 2001, nor will it
> end with the peaceful transition to civilian authority in Iraq, whenever> that may be. In fact, Iraq is but a footnote in the bigger context of this
> encounter, but an important one none the less.
>
> This war is what the Jihadists themselves are calling the "Third Great
> Jihad." They are operating within the framework of a time line which reaches
> back to the very creation of Islam in the seventh century and are presently
> attempting to recreate the dynamics which gave rise to the religion in the
> first two hundred years of its existence. No religion in history grew as
> fast, in its infancy, and the reasons for the initial growth of Islam are
> not hard to explain when you understand what the world was like at the time
> of Muhammad's death in 632 AD.
> Remember that the Western Roman Empire was in ruins and the Eastern
> Empire,based in Constantinople, was trying desperately to keep the power of
> its early grandeur while transitioning to Christianity as a de f! acto state
> religion.The costs to the average person were large as he was being required
> to meet the constantly rising taxes levied by the state along with the
> tithes coerced by the Church.
>
> What Islam offered was the "carrot or the sword". If you became a convert,
> your taxes were immediately eliminated, as was your tithe. If you didn't,
> you faced death. The choice was not hard for most to make, unless you were a
> very devoted martyr in the making. At the beginning, even the theology was
> not too hard for most to swallow, considering that both Jewry and
> Christianity were given their due by the Prophet. There is but one
> God-Allah, and Muhammad is His Prophet, as was Jesus, and the pre-Christian
> Jewish prophets of the Torah (Old Testament).
> Both were called "children of the book"--the book being the Koran, which
> replaced both the Old and New Testaments for former Christians! and Jews.
> With this practical approach to spreading the "word" Islam grew like
> wild-fire, reaching out from the Saudi Arabian Peninsula in all directions.
> This early growth is what the Muslims call the "First" great Jihad and it
> met with little resistance until Charles Martel of France, the father of
> Charlemagne, stopped them in the battle of Tours in France, after they had
> firmly established Islam on the Iberian Peninsula. This first onslaught
> against the West continued in various forms and at various times until Islam
> was finally driven out of Spain in 1492 at the battle of Granada.
>
> The "Second great jihad" came with the Ottoman Turks. This empire
> succeeded in bringing about the downfall of Constantinople as a Christian
> stronghold and an end to Roman hegemony in all of its forms. The Ottoman
> Empire was Islam's most successful expansion of territory even though the
> ! religion itself had fractured into warring sects and bitter rivalries with
> each claiming the ultimate truths in "the ways of the Prophet". By 1683 the
> Ottomans had suffered a series of defeats on both land and sea and the
> final, unsuccessful attempt to capture Vienna set the stage for the collapse
> of any further territorial ambitions and Islam shrunk into various
> sheikhdoms, emir dominated principalities, and roving tribes of nomads.
> However, by this time a growing anti-western sentiment, blaming its internal
> failures on anyone but themselves, was taking hold and
> setting the stage for a new revival known as Wahhabism, a sect which came
> into full bloom under the House of Saud on the Arabian Peninsula shortly
> before the onset of WWI. It is this Wahhabi version of Islam which has
> infected the religion itself, now finding adherents in almost all branches
> and sects, especially the Shiites.
! >
> Wahhabism calls for the complete and total rejection or destruction of
> anything and everything which is not based in the original teachings of The
> Prophet and finds its most glaring practice in the policies of the Afghani
> Taliban or the Shiite practices of the late Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran. Its
> Ali Pasha (Field Marshall) is now known as Osama bin Laden, the leader of
> the "Third Jihad", who is Wahhabi as were his 9/11 attack teams, 18 of which
> were also Saudi.
>
> The strategy for this "holy war" did not begin with the planning of the
> destruction of the World Trade Center. It began with the toppling of the
> Shah of Iran back in the late 1970's. With his plans and programs to
> "westernize" his country, along with his close ties to the U.S. and subdued
> acceptance of the State of Israel, the Shah was the soft target. Remember
> "America Held Hostage"?
>
> Tha! nks, in large part to the hypocritical and disastrous policies of the
> Jimmy Carter State Department, the revolution was set into motion, the Shah
> was deposed, his armed forces scattered or murdered and stage one was
> complete. The Third Jihad now had a base of operations and the oil wealth to
> support its grand design or what they call the "Great Caliphate".
>
> What this design calls for is the replacement of all secular leadership in
> any country with Muslim majorities. This would include, Egypt, Turkey,
> Pakistan, Indonesia, all the Emirates, Sudan, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria,
> Morocco,Yemen,Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Malaysia, Indonesia and finally what
> they call the "occupied territory" Israel.
>
> As a part of this strategy, forces of the jihad will infiltrate governments
> and the military as a prelude to taking control, once the secular leadership
> is ousted or assassinated. Such was! the case in Lebanon leading to the
> Syrian occupation and in Egypt with the murder of Anwar Sadat, along with
> the multiple attempts on the lives of Hussein in Jordan, Mubarak of Egypt
> and Musharraf in Pakistan. Pakistan is a particular prize because of its
> nuclear weapons.
> (Please note al Qaeda call for the Islamic-militant overthrow of Musharraf
> in Pakistan on March 25, just yesterday.)
>
> The long-range strategy of the Third Jihad counts on three strategic
> goals. First, the U.S. withdrawing from the region just as it did in
> Southeast
> Asia, following Vietnam. Second, taking control of the oil wealth in the
> Muslim countries, which would be upwards to 75% of known reserves; third,
> using nuclear weapons or other WMDs to annihilate Israel. A further outcome
> of successfully achieving these objectives would be to place the United
> Nations as the sole arbiter in East/West negotiations and paralyze western
> resistance, leading to total withdrawal from all Islamic dominated
> countries.
>
> Evidence of the Bush Administration awareness of this plan is found in the
> events immediately following the 9/11 attack. The administration's first
> move was to shore up Pakistan and Egypt, believing that these two would be
> the next targets for al Qaeda, while Americans focused on the disaster in
> New York. The administration also knew that the most important objective was
> to send a loud and clear message that the U.S. was in the region to stay,
> not only to shore up our allies but to send a message to the Jihadists. The
> attack on Afghanistan was necessary to break-up a secure al Qaeda base of
> operations and put their leadership on the run or in prison. The war in Iraq
> also met a very strategic necessity in that no one knew how much
> collaboration exi! sted between Saddam Hussein and the master planners of the
> Third Jihad or Hussein's willingness to hand off WMDs to terrorist groups
> including the PLO in Israel. What was known were serious indications of
> on-going collaboration as Saddam funneled money to families of suicide
> bombers attacking the Israelis and others in Kuwait.
>
> What the U.S. needed to establish was a significant base of operations
> smack dab in the middle of the Islamic world, in a location which
> effectively cut it in half. Iraq was the ideal target for this and a host of
> other strategic reasons.
> Leadership of various anti-American groups both here and abroad understood
> the vital nature of the Bush initiative and thus launched their
> demonstrations, world-wide, to "Stop The War". Failing this, they also laid
> plans to build a political campaign inside the country, with the War in Iraq
> as a plebiscite, usi! ng a little known politician as the thrust point--Howard
> Dean. This helps to explain how quickly the Radical Left moved into the Dean
> campaign with both people and money, creating what the clueless media called
> the "Dean Phenomenon".
>
> By building on the left-wing base in the Democrat party and the "Hate
> Bush" crowd, the campaign has already resulted in a consensus among the
> aspirants,minus Joe Lieberman, to withdraw the U.S. from Iraq and turn the
> operation over to the U.N. And, if past is prologue, i.e., Vietnam, once the
> U.S. leaves it will not go back under any circumstances, possibly even the
> destruction of Israel. Should George W. Bush be defeated in November we
> could expect to see the dominoes start to fall in the secular Islamic
> countries and The Clash of Civilizations, predicted several years ago by
> Samuel Huntington, would then become a life changing event! in all of our
> lives.
>
> What surprised the Jihadists following the 9/11 attack was how American
> sentiment mobilized around the president and a profound sense of patriotism
> spread across the country. They were not expecting this reaction, based on
> what had happened in the past, nor were they expecting the determined
> resolve of the President himself. I also believe this is one of the reasons
> we have not had any further attacks within our borders. They are content to
> wait, just as one of their tactical mentors; V.I. Lenin admonished..."two
> steps forward, one step back".
>
> A couple additional events serve as valuable footnotes to the current
> circumstances we face: the destruction of the human assets factor of the
> CIA during the Carter presidency, presided over by the late Senator Frank
> Church.
> This fact has plagued our intelligence agencies right up to this very day
> with consequences which are now obvious. And, Jimmy Carter himself, the one
> man who must bear the bulk of the responsibility for setting the stage of
> the Third Jihad. Americans should find little comfort in how the Democrat
> contenders constantly seek the "advice and counsel" of this despicable
> hypocrite.
>
> Lastly, we should not expect to see any meaningful cooperation from
> Western Europe, especially the French. Since failing to protect their own
> interests in Algeria (by turning the country over to the first of the Arab
> terrorists,Ammad Ben Bella), the country itself is now occupied by Islamic
> immigrants totaling twenty percent of the population.
>
> We are in the battle of our lives, a battle which will go on for many
> years possibly even generations. If we fail to understand what we are facing
> or falter in the challenge of "knowing our enemy" the results w! ill be
> catastrophic.
> Imagine a world where al Qaeda regimes control 75% of the world's oil,
> have at their disposal nuclear weapons, legions of willing suicide soldiers,
> and our national survival is dependent on the good graces of Kofi Annan and
> the United Nations.
>
> There is one final footnote which may be the scariest of all. Either none
> of the Democrats currently leading the drive to their party's nomination are
> aware of the facts of the Great Caliphate and Third Jihad or they do know
> and they don't care so long as their power lust is satisfied. But, I can
> guarantee you one thing for sure: some of their most ardent supporters are
> aware of this and will do anything they can to bring it about.
>
> **************End of Report************************

Kinda reminds me of someone else of this past century that started themselves a "Third Reich". Third Jihad "Holy war" what's the difference?

"Hunt the bastuds down and KILL THEM" is what I suggest we do! It matters not where they be hidding, in their mosque, nest, or in their persuit of the 40 virgins. Blow them up and let the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob sort em out.

themole
06-18-2004, 03:03 PM
HAHAAHA!!!!
Then you sound like a ranting extremist.
You like interjecting words in to peoples thoughts, be proud of that.
I never said "we abandoned the search for Bin Laden." So you must be the fool.
And "YES" we need every solider to get that low life scum bag. That is what should have been done from the begining. Get that bastard first! Then go after Sadam!
And again "WE" all are biased in our opions. And thank you for not concsidering me as human. That is the best compliment I have gotten today. I wounder why we have deep felt anti-american sentiments in europe. And shock thearpy has been tried it failed. The batteries ran out on the taser gun. LMAO

Opions are like azz-holes...everyone has got 1.
Some people have 2.


So...you find being "human" disgusting? Perhaps the local kennel "fire hydrant" is what you would like to be.

Your idea of fighting the war on terrorism is gathering our boys up into the British Square and marching them onward toward Osama? :goof:

ThunderCane
06-18-2004, 03:42 PM
Like Thundercane, I too HATE politics and politicians as well as left and right wing whackos.

Unlike Thundercane, I can see Michael Moore for the lying, hypocritical, fanatical POS that he is. He edits interviews to piece together a sham for the purpose of pushing the point that HE wants conveyed, then deceitfully packages his crap as "documentary". It is wholly fictional work.

I am astounded that someone such as Thundercane with the ability to see that modern political parties are a farce cannot see that crap that Michael Moore dumps on the world (puns intended), is some of the WORST propoganda of all.
Then all that is reported by the media, especially the networks, is lying, hypocritical, fanatical POS. Cause no matter who is reporting they are standing on a side of the fence. I never said the what ever Moore reports is hard fact or truth. It is what he believes. And I want to know what he believes. So I can form my own opinion for all the other propoganda that is turned out by both the Rep and Dem camps.

It really does not matter what I believe, you believe, or anyone else believes.
Cause the rich are going to do what the hell they want. So can we kill this damn thread. Cause it is so damn stupid to sit here and ack like "one" is right. Cause we all are wrong.

BTW...."So...you find being "human" disgusting?"--->The Mole
What I have seen through my short life...humanity has not come that far from the stone ages. Just better weapons to kill each other with for power-money-and what ever stupid reason.
In addition..."Your idea of fighting the war on terrorism is gathering our boys up into the British Square and marching them onward toward Osama?"
Nope never said that....should have used all them bombs going after Osama 1st. And not stop unitl we have him alive or dead.

PhinPhan1227
06-18-2004, 03:53 PM
I never said the what ever Moore reports is hard fact or truth. It is what he believes. And I want to know what he believes.


Why?

- Is Michael Moore an expert on anything in his films? Has he been educated in economics, foreign affairs, even history(actually, Moore dropped out of college)? Has he done any extensive work in finance, foreign affairs, or the government? The man makes films. If one is seeking his opinion of filmmaking, than yes, I think he's qualified to give an educated opinion. But he has no education in that which his film covers. His opinion on those issues is worth no more than yours or mine. Just like any hollywood actor or movie maker, his fame gives him a platform, and just like any hollywood actor, there's nothing of substance being spouted from that platform. So again I repeat my question...why do you care what he believes?

ThunderCane
06-18-2004, 04:02 PM
Because it is what you just posted, replace Moores' name with just about any politicans name. They all say this say that...their camps report this and that...they all twist crap up and nothing is the truth. So I look at this, "life-politics", as a jig-saw puzzel. There is some truth, no matter how little, in everything...and we individualy have to put it together. By totaly discrediting one...then must discredit all...so what the hell is the truth?

ohall
06-18-2004, 05:58 PM
Because it is what you just posted, replace Moores' name with just about any politicans name. They all say this say that...their camps report this and that...they all twist crap up and nothing is the truth. So I look at this, "life-politics", as a jig-saw puzzel. There is some truth, no matter how little, in everything...and we individualy have to put it together. By totaly discrediting one...then must discredit all...so what the hell is the truth?

I'm confused, if everyone twists and because of that nothing is the truth, why is it you believe Moore's twist and lies are the truth?

For me, I'll trust the ppl in the government who have some sort of accountability built in rather than a $ grubbing liar like Moore. He's in it for himself, and he could give a damn about you or this country.

This is the guy you said he hopes a lot of American soldiers die so America will learn a lesson. And he wants to get a PG-13 for his movie so he can hopefully stop young ppl from joining the military. This man is a scumbag! If he was saying these things 50-60 years ago he'd be lined up in front of a wall and shot!

Oliver...

themole
06-18-2004, 06:41 PM
Because it is what you just posted, replace Moores' name with just about any politicans name. They all say this say that...their camps report this and that...they all twist crap up and nothing is the truth. So I look at this, "life-politics", as a jig-saw puzzel. There is some truth, no matter how little, in everything...and we individualy have to put it together. By totaly discrediting one...then must discredit all...so what the hell is the truth?


TRUTH....CAN NOT be found in that escaped abortion named Micheal Moore. That disgusting tub of horse sh!t has an agenda of socialism he's trying to push down the throats of the uninitiated.

Like most that resent people that either from hard work and good fortune have accumilated wealth he would have them give it away as if their wealth was undeserving.

Be glad there are wealthy people.

What a lot of people today fail to realize is that our forefathers created an "ECONOMY" with limited government to impede it. Nowhere else on earth will you find a system like ours.

I live fairly well from just a HS education. I retired from the company that keeps your lights on "15 yrs early I might add" rather than be forced to move to Turkey Point.

I'm not bitter! Why? Because I have always had a small business on the side to make money and invest it in houses for resale. I'm not RICH but I'm damn sure not POOR either, because I know how to make a buck!

I don't know the well from which you draw your political water but you might want to try drinking from another stream. You will find the TRUTH is the perfect blind of the two streams, never to heavy either way.

It's much more rewarding to produce than to receive.

PhinPhan1227
06-18-2004, 07:12 PM
Because it is what you just posted, replace Moores' name with just about any politicans name. They all say this say that...their camps report this and that...they all twist crap up and nothing is the truth. So I look at this, "life-politics", as a jig-saw puzzel. There is some truth, no matter how little, in everything...and we individualy have to put it together. By totaly discrediting one...then must discredit all...so what the hell is the truth?


That's not bad logic, that's an utter LACK of logic. I can choose to discount an individual with no training or expertese, and then choose to listen to those who DO have training and expertese. Now, I choose to listen to botth sides of the argument...but I'd like to hear from the guys that actually know something. By saying that you MUST listen to Moore, you are also saying that you MUST listen to the crazy guy cleaning your windshield at the stoplight. Both of them have the same level of knowledge. It's simple really...if you want two medical opinions, you ask two doctors. You don't ask one doctor and the kid at the McDonalds counter. You are trying to elevate Moore to a level of expertese which he doesn't match up to. Oh...and as for "what is the truth", there ARE absolute truths. You and I may not be privy to many of them, but they do exist. How close YOU get to the truth is going to be determined in large part by where you choose to look for your facts. Right now, you're on the wrong path.

Mr.Murder
06-26-2004, 01:44 PM
Moore never said he wanted soldiers to die, in fact he gives them a voice and free movies and lists soldiers support sites online...

As for the NYT, they are a joke yes. They pushed WMD lie stories by Mylroi and Miller who site one another as confidential sources and are poster children for special ed on their best days...

Moore is using facts from public record. If he is so wrong why has he never lost a lawsuit? Lawyers would sue him broke if they could... he does his fact checks beforehand, presents factual information and gives his opinion on the ifnormation presented.

Bash him all you want, loyalists approved taxes and outsourcing from the East India Tea company and its parent government. We've dealt with your kind before.

ohall
06-26-2004, 05:00 PM
Moore never said he wanted soldiers to die, in fact he gives them a voice and free movies and lists soldiers support sites online...


Yes he did, he said he hoped that many American soldiers will die in Iraq so America will hopefully learn a lesson we will never forget. Ignore that all you want to. This is also the man who said Afghanistan never did anything to this country, and that UBL was innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. He made those comments about UBL 1 year after the 9/11 attacks. The man is off his rocker, and I wish ppl would stop fostering his insanity.

Moore wouldn't know a fact if his middle name was fact.

Oliver...

ThunderCane
06-26-2004, 07:23 PM
Where is the proff he said this?

ohall
06-26-2004, 09:08 PM
Where is the proff he said this?

It's out there. I'm certain if you do a lil research unlike Moore you'll find the truth about how much he hates this country, especially anything that involves the military and the REP party.

Poor guy, he does things backwards. He hires fact checkers after he releases the movie, not before he released the movie.

And to be honest with you I could care less if you or anyone else out there that ever took this A-Hole seriously for more than a mili-second if you believe what I typed about Moore. People like you often ignore reality, and I'm not surprised you would miss all the evidence that has come out about MM and his lies and where he stands when it comes to this country especially over the last month.

Oliver...

iceblizzard69
06-26-2004, 11:52 PM
I'm not a Michael Moore fan but I highly doubt he said that he wished death upon American soldiers. He was against the war but I don't think he is the type who would wish death upon American soldiers.

BTW, I heard his movie already made 8 million dollars and is first in box office sales so far this weekend, which would be a first first for a documentery.

ohall
06-27-2004, 12:45 AM
I'm not a Michael Moore fan but I highly doubt he said that he wished death upon American soldiers. He was against the war but I don't think he is the type who would wish death upon American soldiers.

BTW, I heard his movie already made 8 million dollars and is first in box office sales so far this weekend, which would be a first first for a documentery.

He has very good timing, it's a weak movie weekend. I know one thing for sure, he won't get 1 penny of my $.

You can doubt it all you want to, when I read his quote it didn't shock me at all. He's totally anti-war and whether a war is just or not is of no consequence to ppl like him. To lefty wackos like him no war is ever justified.

Oliver...

iceblizzard69
06-27-2004, 09:33 AM
He has very good timing, it's a weak movie weekend. I know one thing for sure, he won't get 1 penny of my $.

You can doubt it all you want to, when I read his quote it didn't shock me at all. He's totally anti-war and whether a war is just or not is of no consequence to ppl like him. To lefty wackos like him no war is ever justified.

Oliver...

Just because he was against the war doesn't mean that he wishes death on American soldiers. :rolleyes2

Also, I'm sure there are those who think that any war that the US wages is justified. :rolleyes2 I doubt Moore would say that something like WW2 was unjustified. I wasn't against the war because I do think there were some good reasons for going into Iraq, but I can understand how someone can say that it wasn't justified.

ThunderCane
06-27-2004, 10:39 AM
ohall is one of many reasons why I can not live in central florida any longer.
He claims that Moore wished death upon US soilders. But has no NUT SACKS to back it with facts.

Then rants and rave "I could care less if you or anyone else out there that ever took this A-Hole seriously for more than a mili-second if you believe what I typed about Moore. People like you often ignore reality, and I'm not surprised you would miss all the evidence that has come out about MM and his lies and where he stands when it comes to this country especially over the last month."

I think reality has passed most people by weather you believe in one thing or not. I recall somone that is in military service posting that we as a people will never know the facts cause we as a people could not handle it.
9-11 prove that theory so wrong. I have never seen a nation stand so proud and strong. And then our government, both Rep and Dem, use our fears to stomp on our civil liberties.
I live and work near Patrick AFB...and what I hear from the military personel does not support how are government has handle the situation.

Section126
06-27-2004, 01:19 PM
Michael Moore did wish death to americans....

He said: "What we really need is a lot of pictures of American Bodybags coming back from Iraq, maybe after 5,000 or so, the American people will wise up."

BTW, did you know that Terrorist sites and Hezbollah have endorsed Jabba the Director's work to all their terrorist buddies?

ohall
06-27-2004, 07:08 PM
ohall is one of many reasons why I can not live in central florida any longer.
He claims that Moore wished death upon US soilders. But has no NUT SACKS to back it with facts.

Then rants and rave "I could care less if you or anyone else out there that ever took this A-Hole seriously for more than a mili-second if you believe what I typed about Moore. People like you often ignore reality, and I'm not surprised you would miss all the evidence that has come out about MM and his lies and where he stands when it comes to this country especially over the last month."

I think reality has passed most people by weather you believe in one thing or not. I recall somone that is in military service posting that we as a people will never know the facts cause we as a people could not handle it.
9-11 prove that theory so wrong. I have never seen a nation stand so proud and strong. And then our government, both Rep and Dem, use our fears to stomp on our civil liberties.
I live and work near Patrick AFB...and what I hear from the military personel does not support how are government has handle the situation.

If you want to blame me for your ignorance, it's cool man. I know what Moore said, and so do other ppl. Those ppl are not scared to do a lil research to inform themselves.

He is nothing more than a person who is anti-war at all costswho will hurt his own country to make his point and make a crap load of $ off of a bunch of ignorant ppl.

Oliver...

ohall
06-27-2004, 07:09 PM
Michael Moore did wish death to americans....

He said: "What we really need is a lot of pictures of American Bodybags coming back from Iraq, maybe after 5,000 or so, the American people will wise up."

BTW, did you know that Terrorist sites and Hezbollah have endorsed Jabba the Director's work to all their terrorist buddies?

I did, and I believe I mentioned it here, but that was just ignored by some, because I didn't have a LINK. I have no idea why they would think I would lie about something like that. After all I'm not Michael Moore, the truth is important to me.

Oliver...

PhinPhan1227
06-27-2004, 08:44 PM
I'm not a Michael Moore fan but I highly doubt he said that he wished death upon American soldiers. He was against the war but I don't think he is the type who would wish death upon American soldiers.

BTW, I heard his movie already made 8 million dollars and is first in box office sales so far this weekend, which would be a first first for a documentery.


Excuse me, but the movie "The Passion"was more of a documentary than F9/11.

Muck
06-27-2004, 09:22 PM
Michael Moore did wish death to americans....

He said: "What we really need is a lot of pictures of American Bodybags coming back from Iraq, maybe after 5,000 or so, the American people will wise up."
That doesn't look like he's wishing death on anyone. More like you're interpreting it that way.

What I get out of that statement is he feels this is going to be a long, long war.....and that many Americans will die as a result of it. And for people to "wise up" (to what he believes), it's gonna take them seeing the bodybags.

Do you not agree that more Americans would be against the war if they were seeing the body bags on a nightly basis?? People do not like death. They do not like gruesome injury. Both make them uncomfortable.

P4E
06-27-2004, 09:49 PM
I'm not a Michael Moore fan but I highly doubt he said that he wished death upon American soldiers. He was against the war but I don't think he is the type who would wish death upon American soldiers.

BTW, I heard his movie already made 8 million dollars and is first in box office sales so far this weekend, which would be a first first for a documentery.
Blizz... you have got to stop referring to Fahrenheit as a documentary. You're perpetuating a fallacy. I think Section had the definitive statement on this, -- that trying to learn anything about terrorism and foreign policy by watching that movie is like trying to learn about space travel by watching Star Wars.:)

iceblizzard69
06-27-2004, 10:15 PM
I haven't seen the movie (and I don't want to, I don't want to give Michael Moore my money, but maybe if I'm really bored one day I will go to a movie and then sneak into his) but it is supposedly a documentary. However, from what I heard, the movie isn't fiction, but the only way for me to make a decision on if it is a documentary or not is to see it.

Also, for those who say it isn't a documentary, have you seen it? How would you know unless you actually saw the movie?

ThunderCane
06-27-2004, 11:23 PM
Passions was for the religious who want to use the bible to make money, just like Bush. And most people would claim it to be more fact than any.

I do not do research to back peoples lies.

The comment that Moore made about the troops. It was when the photos came out about the caskest arriving from Iraq. In addition, he made comments how the laws where passed to not show caskets. He we not wanting any soilder to die to prove a point. In fact that is his point. The soldiers are dieing for a pointless war.

So the most ignorant people are the backers of Bush and the people that want war.

I am anti-war and war is the last resort, war should not be used to gain even more money. I am pissed that Bush "LET" Osama get away.

So ohall, I am no way as ignorant as you are to this war and what the Bush Regime. And Moore is doing more for this country than either Bush has ever. They are the rotten low lifes using are young mens blood to gain even more wealth.

ohall
06-27-2004, 11:26 PM
That doesn't look like he's wishing death on anyone. More like you're interpreting it that way.

What I get out of that statement is he feels this is going to be a long, long war.....and that many Americans will die as a result of it. And for people to "wise up" (to what he believes), it's gonna take them seeing the bodybags.

Do you not agree that more Americans would be against the war if they were seeing the body bags on a nightly basis?? People do not like death. They do not like gruesome injury. Both make them uncomfortable.

Yup they would turn on the war, and when the media starts showing how innocent ppl including women and children are dieing because of the war in Iraq our public will turn on our soldiers like they did in the Vietnam war. The ELITE liberal media did that in the Vietnam war, and in time they'll get that type of vibe going in this war. They have an agenda, and it's an anti-war agenda, no matter how just a war may or may not be, to them all war is bad and unjust.

You can think all you want that Moore is not anti-war and anti-American, but the quote that 126 put up is not the quote I was talking about. The quote I'm talking about he said way out of whacked things 1 year after 9/11 and UBL.

ohall
06-27-2004, 11:28 PM
The comment that Moore made about the troops. It was when the photos came out about the caskest arriving from Iraq. In addition, he made comments how the laws where passed to not show caskets. He we not wanting any soilder to die to prove a point. In fact that is his point. The soldiers are dieing for a pointless war.

Tell me, do you know when those laws were passed, and do you know that law was just upheld in the senate last week?

Oliver...

Mr.Murder
06-28-2004, 12:51 AM
Three full time factcheckers and legal team are with Moore. I just got back from the movie, it is solid. The Ashcroft singing was bizarre yes, and the COngressional Black Caucus members of the House up complaining about black citizens were wronged in the election and Dems were complicit to let it happen, even gore who was the Senate President.

Moore never said he wanted to see soldiers die, you said he did. He only wished more people to see the results of war so they would not put soldiers to battle without justified actions.

As for Star Wars, the last time I heard that much applause was at its showing... Moore made a damned good movie, pointed out shortcomings in the DoHS as well.But this is a record setting documentary...he made more from this movie than Columbine earned in full for him...


So you have not seen the movie and continue to bash it? For want of reason does not make one wise. Then again Bush supporters have never been about full dialogue...

Mr.Murder
06-28-2004, 12:57 AM
Oh, and Bush Sr was dining with the Bin ladens, and continues to get CIA debriefings, uncommon for ex-Presidents, and he continues to have finacnially vested relations with Saudi government and Bin laden figures on various subcontracted efforts that are often rewarded aappropriations...

And some relatives have requested to view caskets and photo them as well...


As for these supposed quotes and thew URL sites they're on, "Bring It On!"

ThunderCane
06-28-2004, 01:07 AM
Curriculum vitae of George W. Bush The White House, USA



EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:



LAW ENFORCEMENT:



I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available.



MILITARY:



I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.



COLLEGE:



I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.



PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:



I ran for U.S. Congress and lost.



I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.



I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money.



With the help of my father and our right-wing friends in the oil industry

(including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.



ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:



I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union.



During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America.



I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.



I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.



With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.



ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:



I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.



I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.



I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.



I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.



I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.



I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.



I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market.



In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.



I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history.



My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.



I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President.



I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most

corporate campaign donations.



My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. history, Enron.



My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.



I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history.



I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.



I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.



I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded

government contracts.



I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history.



I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.



I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.



I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.



I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.



I refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.



I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election

inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).



I set the record for fewest number of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.



I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period.



After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.



I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.



I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.



I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community.



I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families -- in war time.



In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq, then blamed the lies on our British friends.



I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%)view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.



I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD.



I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice.



RECORDS AND REFERENCES:



All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view.



All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.



All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President,attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.



PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.

ohall
06-28-2004, 02:33 AM
Moore never said he wanted to see soldiers die, you said he did. He only wished more people to see the results of war so they would not put soldiers to battle without justified actions.

So you have not seen the movie and continue to bash it?

Nope sorry he did. And why would I want to give that a-hole one penny of my $?

Oliver...

PhinPhan1227
06-28-2004, 11:14 AM
Passions was for the religious who want to use the bible to make money, just like Bush. And most people would claim it to be more fact than any.

So the most ignorant people are the backers of Bush and the people that want war.

I am anti-war and war is the last resort, war should not be used to gain even more money. I am pissed that Bush "LET" Osama get away.

So ohall, I am no way as ignorant as you are to this war and what the Bush Regime. And Moore is doing more for this country than either Bush has ever. They are the rotten low lifes using are young mens blood to gain even more wealth.

Ok..

#1-Gibson put up the money to make the movie. There was a better than even chance that the film would never see genreal release. Given other elements of his life, I highly doubt that Gibson made the movie to make money.

#2-I'm against war too. Unfortunately it only takes one side to start a war. The war in Iraq started more than a decade ago. Saddam had more than 12 years of opportunities to end that war and declined to do so. Bush II didn't start a war...he's trying to finish one.

Section126
06-28-2004, 12:34 PM
Curriculum vitae of George W. Bush The White House, USA



EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:



LAW ENFORCEMENT:



I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available.

AND?



MILITARY:



I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.

You have too many assumptions in there and a bold lie. He was never asked to take any drug test while in the Air national guard.



COLLEGE:



I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.

It was a High C....A 3.1 average at that time was a high "C", it is now a solid "B", so go figure.


PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:



I ran for U.S. Congress and lost.

SO?



I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

Not true, he brokered deals for Oil companies in Texas and made a good deal of money by brokering these deals, he took two companies of which he sold one of them (El Busto), for a loss. Please, make a better effort.



I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money.

Not true again. He bought the Rangers with MONEY. He found investors to help buy the Rangers, he then pushed a ballot initiative to find funding for the Stadium. It passed by a landslide.



With the help of my father and our right-wing friends in the oil industry

(including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.

Also with 68% of the vote of the people of Texas, did you forget them?



ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:



I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union.

Not true again, The Texas legislature passes laws, and in fact, during his tenure, Texas became the leader in the country in cleaner fuel. 30% of the Power generated in Texas was from Natural Gas, (clean fuel). Everywhere else the number was from 10 to 16%. These ratios are used by the EPA to determine enviromental policy for the nation. The EPA determined that Texas had the model......in 1997!!!!! While a Democrat was in the White House.....go figure.



During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America.

Not true anymore. Houston replaced LA for the six month stretch that LA was having blackouts and Greyouts.



I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.

Bankrupted? Another lie. That statement is so stupid that it is not worth debunking.



I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.

Good for him.



With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.


Losing the POPULAR vote. He won the electoral college. We elect presidents with the EC in this country.



ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:



I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.

Not true. When you get a DUI for the first time, you are placed on probation period and if you committ no further offense in that period (7 years). Your record is cleaned. So therefore he has no criminal record. Nevermind that it was a misdemeanor at the time.



I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.

Yep, for good causes, both times.



I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

There goes that word "Bankrupted" again. The deficit is currently on a schedule of reduction that will take it to ZERO by the year 2007. That was a pretty stupid statement BTW.



I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.

WRONG. As a percentage of the GDP, the deficit in 1988 was higher.



I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.

Because bankruptcy law was tightened in 2000, preventing frivolous filings. At the same period, discretionary income was at it's highest as per the IRS. So go figure....again.



I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.

Not true. The period you are referring to is in 1999. Err.....somebody else was president then......



I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market.

As a percentage, this is a bold face lie. Easily verifiable by anybody with a brain.




In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.

That trend has been reversed. So another lie here. By the time he gets re-elected his administration will be in the "plus" in jobs created. Read the papers.



I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history.

Why shouldn't he be? These are people that don't need the money, so obviously they are doing a patriotic and selfless thing.



My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

And Bill Clinton has a brothel named after him in Paris. Go figure...again.



I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President.

Good for him.



I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most

corporate campaign donations.

As a percentage, it is on par with Bill Clinton, in dollar amounts, you are correct.




My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. history, Enron.

And this taints Bush how? He let him go down the drain and offered no help to Enron. Boy, this Bush is really an honest guy!!!




My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.

Did you make this up? BTW, Al Gore used taxpayer money to launch his coop attempt.



I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history.

Not true. Halliburton has not been charged with anything .....EVER. Enron execs have been getting thrown in jail since 2001.




I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.

Another lie. More Hyperbole. Not worth refuting as it is a total fabrication.



I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.

They were the same price in the summer of 2000, while Slick Willie was president. Go figure.....yet again.



I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded

government contracts.


Boy, are you reaching. The Democrats want convicted felons to vote. Go figure....again.......




I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history.

What? Convicted criminals? Name them.



I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.

With a 100 to nothing vote in the Senate.



I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.

Broken is the wrond word. The word is rescinded. All of which had the backing of the US Senate, BTW.



I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.

And place Libya and the Sudan on. More evidence that the UN sucks.



I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.

Good for him. Good for us.



I refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.

Not true. The red cross inspects all POW's held by the US. The Geneva convention applies to "Uniformed" combatants and not "Illegal" combatants such as terrorists. The detainees at Gitmo however, have been visited by the Red Cross although they ar enot entitled to it.



I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election

inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).


What are you talking about? Are you serious?



I set the record for fewest number of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.

True. Who cares?



I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period.

Ever heard of a working vacation? Presidents never have a vacation....NEVER.



After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.

So now he took off the "MONTH". this is too easy.




I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.

Your opinion. Not fact.



I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.

Who cares?



I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community.

Too many lies in there!!! It was provoked, it was sanctioned as per SCR 1441, The majority of US citizens supported it, and who gives a crap about what europe says?



I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families -- in war time.

Bullcrap. Stop watching John Kerry commercials to get your talking points. Look at the line items in the Budget this year, there are increases for all that yopu stated.



In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq, then blamed the lies on our British friends.

In the state of the Union, he said clearly, that "according to British Intelligence", I saw him say it live and there are transcripts and video of him saying that before the "yellow cake" from niger charge during the SOTU. Stop making things up.



I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%)view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

Boy, 71% of europeans are morons?



I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD.

COOL!!! I bet that could kill Bin Laden in a bunker huh?



I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice.

Good things come to those that wait. In due time.



RECORDS AND REFERENCES:



All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view.

All the records of his tenure as governor are readily available as he governed a state in this country. What are you talking about?



All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

Oh boy.....not this crap again. The SEC stated that they had never sought an investigation and had no interest of an investigation as he committed no crime. Did you forget that even Al Gore didn't use it before the 2000 election, because there was no there...there?



All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President,attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.

Good.



PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.

I will. After considering it, I will probably vote to re-elect you sir.

PhinPhan1227
06-28-2004, 01:18 PM
"I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community."

I particularly like this line. I guess he's never heard of Grenada, or Somalia, or Haiti, or Panama, or Cuba, or Mexico, or Japan for that matter. In all of those nations(before you jump on Japan ThunderCane...look up Admiral Perry), we sent in our troops without the other guy firing a shot at us first. And our troops stuck around for a good bit afterwards as well. Gotta love lies and the lying liers who tell them.

Section126
06-28-2004, 01:30 PM
Add Kosovo, Vietnam, Korea, Dom Rep., and Haiti the second time.

Mr.Murder
06-28-2004, 04:53 PM
1227 is against the war too? Nice flip-flop.

Wow the only efforts of preemptive wars listed undertaken by Dems was Kosovo, a success in every measure. Unless you count the bay of pigs, which incidentally has a lot of Bush ties. They loved sugar plantations back in the day... and anyone to bring up Nam must know that the VP ambassador Nixon and Kissinger early days had a lot to do with the initial advisor's role... anyways the point was so much pre-emptive war that coincides with republiclowns } : 0 ) Teddy the trust-buster and Ike's final speech was the Republicans I grew up hoping to vote for. Thanks to BushSr that is no longer so.


Bush the insider trading, aWol, can't speak without sitting in Cheney's lap puppet.


Mars, *****!!!!!!
Response to 9-11: remember to shop!
Food on our families!Is our children learning?

Reagan's morning in America, I love the smell of napalm in the morning...

Bush is pushing the edge of the eleventh hour and there is no Cold war to justify it. Nixon got impeached for blathering a gin haze about nuking SE asia... hope to see Bush get his soon before he decides to fight a thrid war. War on 3 fronts to match the third world war.

Call the war his baby. World War Bush III .

ltfinfan
06-28-2004, 05:19 PM
1227 is against the war too? Nice flip-flop.

Wow the only efforts of preemptive wars listed undertaken by Dems was Kosovo, a success in every measure. Unless you count the bay of pigs, which incidentally has a lot of Bush ties. They loved sugar plantations back in the day... and anyone to bring up Nam must know that the VP ambassador Nixon and Kissinger early days had a lot to do with the initial advisor's role... anyways the point was so much pre-emptive war that coincides with republiclowns } : 0 ) Teddy the trust-buster and Ike's final speech was the Republicans I grew up hoping to vote for. Thanks to BushSr that is no longer so.


Bush the insider trading, aWol, can't speak without sitting in Cheney's lap puppet.


Mars, *****!!!!!!
Response to 9-11: remember to shop!
Food on our families!Is our children learning?

Reagan's morning in America, I love the smell of napalm in the morning...

Bush is pushing the edge of the eleventh hour and there is no Cold war to justify it. Nixon got impeached for blathering a gin haze about nuking SE asia... hope to see Bush get his soon before he decides to fight a thrid war. War on 3 fronts to match the third world war.

Call the war his baby. World War Bush III .


do the trees talk to you in your world?

themole
06-28-2004, 05:35 PM
1227 is against the war too? Nice flip-flop.

Wow the only efforts of preemptive wars listed undertaken by Dems was Kosovo, a success in every measure. Unless you count the bay of pigs, which incidentally has a lot of Bush ties. They loved sugar plantations back in the day... and anyone to bring up Nam must know that the VP ambassador Nixon and Kissinger early days had a lot to do with the initial advisor's role... anyways the point was so much pre-emptive war that coincides with republiclowns } : 0 ) Teddy the trust-buster and Ike's final speech was the Republicans I grew up hoping to vote for. Thanks to BushSr that is no longer so.


Bush the insider trading, aWol, can't speak without sitting in Cheney's lap puppet.


Mars, *****!!!!!!
Response to 9-11: remember to shop!
Food on our families!Is our children learning?

Reagan's morning in America, I love the smell of napalm in the morning...

Bush is pushing the edge of the eleventh hour and there is no Cold war to justify it. Nixon got impeached for blathering a gin haze about nuking SE asia... hope to see Bush get his soon before he decides to fight a thrid war. War on 3 fronts to match the third world war.

Call the war his baby. World War Bush III .


Hell, Wilson sent Mac Arthur into tent city in DC and opened fire on protesting WWI Vets. All they wanted was their promised benefits.

PhinPhan1227
06-28-2004, 05:50 PM
1227 is against the war too? Nice flip-flop.

Wow the only efforts of preemptive wars listed undertaken by Dems was Kosovo, a success in every measure. Unless you count the bay of pigs, which incidentally has a lot of Bush ties. They loved sugar plantations back in the day... and anyone to bring up Nam must know that the VP ambassador Nixon and Kissinger early days had a lot to do with the initial advisor's role... anyways the point was so much pre-emptive war that coincides with republiclowns } : 0 ) Teddy the trust-buster and Ike's final speech was the Republicans I grew up hoping to vote for. Thanks to BushSr that is no longer so.


Bush the insider trading, aWol, can't speak without sitting in Cheney's lap puppet.


Mars, *****!!!!!!
Response to 9-11: remember to shop!
Food on our families!Is our children learning?

Reagan's morning in America, I love the smell of napalm in the morning...

Bush is pushing the edge of the eleventh hour and there is no Cold war to justify it. Nixon got impeached for blathering a gin haze about nuking SE asia... hope to see Bush get his soon before he decides to fight a thrid war. War on 3 fronts to match the third world war.

Call the war his baby. World War Bush III .


#1-When did I say I was against the war?

#2-I'm for the decriminalization of drugs, but this rant/post doesn't help that effort!!!

Mr.Murder
06-28-2004, 07:09 PM
#2-I'm against war too. Unfortunately it only takes one side to start a war. The war in Iraq started more than a decade ago. Saddam had more than 12 years of opportunities to end that war and declined to do so. Bush II didn't start a war...he's trying to finish one.originally posted by 1227.Post #82, point 2...

Stay off the drugs you want to decriminalize then, it will do wonders for your short term memory...1227.

Trees don't talk, but they poison the air. See also Reagan and Stockwell...hang around Charlie brown you may learn somthing.


By the way the first Bush's recession was the result of the S&L bailout scandals his sons profited richly from.Bush 2's recession began from the Enron power scandal on the Cali economy. Both things share one common trait aside from the theft of billions- direct involvement of the Bush sons.


Mole I would love to see more on that. Any argument against posse comitatus I would enjoy, alien tort law is trying to take care of that by giving a liability loophole to use private security as police armies, see also the FLA g8 summit protests and how peaceful assembly was roughed up...why does the Bush regime not allow peaceful assembly? Word has it here that a guy three streets over is facing charges for making Bush threats online. He should get a medal to throw over the White House fence.


Anyways here's to hoping the guy finds his bearings. It is kind of hard for people who have never been on a first person basis with the pResident or his secret service details is considered a viable threat and if he goes to jail I'll make a full page ad of his letters home...it isn't like he is a Hinkley brother meeting Bush Sr's brother the week he shot Reagan as John Chancellor stated.


The work of a uniter??? Yeah right. Next you'll tell me he's a decorated pilot.


He is decorative, Kerry is decorated...there's a difference. Bush was called The Texas Soufflee' for good reason.

PhinPhan1227
06-28-2004, 07:59 PM
originally posted by 1227.Post #82, point 2...

Stay off the drugs you want to decriminalize then, it will do wonders for your short term memory...1227.

Trees don't talk, but they poison the air. See also Reagan and Stockwell...hang around Charlie brown you may learn somthing.


By the way the first Bush's recession was the result of the S&L bailout scandals his sons profited richly from.Bush 2's recession began from the Enron power scandal on the Cali economy. Both things share one common trait aside from the theft of billions- direct involvement of the Bush sons.


Mole I would love to see more on that. Any argument against posse comitatus I would enjoy, alien tort law is trying to take care of that by giving a liability loophole to use private security as police armies, see also the FLA g8 summit protests and how peaceful assembly was roughed up...why does the Bush regime not allow peaceful assembly? Word has it here that a guy three streets over is facing charges for making Bush threats online. He should get a medal to throw over the White House fence.


Anyways here's to hoping the guy finds his bearings. It is kind of hard for people who have never been on a first person basis with the pResident or his secret service details is considered a viable threat and if he goes to jail I'll make a full page ad of his letters home...it isn't like he is a Hinkley brother meeting Bush Sr's brother the week he shot Reagan as John Chancellor stated.


The work of a uniter??? Yeah right. Next you'll tell me he's a decorated pilot.


He is decorative, Kerry is decorated...there's a difference. Bush was called The Texas Soufflee' for good reason.


Oh Jesus Murder...I'm against "war". Every sane individual is against "war". That doesn't mean that I'm against finishing the Gulf War which has been ongoing for almost a decade and a half. Come on man, I've seen you post an intelligent comment in the past. So unless you've got some sort of "rev limiter" installed on your brain where Bush is concerned, can't we try for some intelligence on that score as well? Please Murder, if Kerry does get elected, allow me to dream that he wasn't elected by UTTER morons.

Dolphan7
06-28-2004, 09:12 PM
Can I interject here for a minutes guys....?

Do not put your faith in men, political parties or even governments. They will always let you down at some point. Put you faith in Jesus Christ. He is the Truth. He won't let you down. And if the third jihad attempts to wipe out Isreal like the author mentioned previously, Jesus will be coming back sooner than you think. Have faith!!

iceblizzard69
06-28-2004, 09:28 PM
Can I interject here for a minutes guys....?

Do not put your faith in men, political parties or even governments. They will always let you down at some point. Put you faith in Jesus Christ. He is the Truth. He won't let you down. And if the third jihad attempts to wipe out Isreal like the author mentioned previously, Jesus will be coming back sooner than you think. Have faith!!

Worst. Post. Ever.

ohall
06-28-2004, 09:30 PM
Can I interject here for a minutes guys....?

Do not put your faith in men, political parties or even governments. They will always let you down at some point. Put you faith in Jesus Christ. He is the Truth. He won't let you down. And if the third jihad attempts to wipe out Isreal like the author mentioned previously, Jesus will be coming back sooner than you think. Have faith!!

Ain't the truth!

And that is one of the reasons why I support Bush. I have no confidence that Kerry will not push a pro-Palestinian agenda, much like Clinton did. If Kerry wins IMO he will try and make us more like Europe than Europe is today.

Oliver...

paul13
06-28-2004, 09:49 PM
Well ill pray to god Bush wins so i dont have to rely on Jesus.

themole
06-28-2004, 10:04 PM
originally posted by 1227.Post #82, point 2...



Mole I would love to see more on that. Any argument against posse comitatus I would enjoy, alien tort law is trying to take care of that by giving a liability loophole to use private security as police armies, see also the FLA g8 summit protests and how peaceful assembly was roughed up...why does the Bush regime not allow peaceful assembly?

.

MM, I can not argue against "posse comitatus" "power to the people". I would like for you to feast on "Fully Informed Jury Association" though. Although, I believe you may already be familiar with it due to mentioning "posse comitatus". If not, you will soon see the great wisdom our forefathers had. I truly stand amazed at the fore thought these men put into our judicial system.
:shakeno: It's been corrupted, but with the knowledge you gain by studying the "FIJA" you will be able to walk with your chest puffed out because of the power our forefathers bestowed upon the individual citizen.

If you can believe the "History Channel" that was the source on MacAuthur.

As far as political parties...we've been duped by both. I side on the side of commerce and capitalism.Without it we would all be slaves. I'm a Nationalist, America first type, so obviously the New World Order, makes no sense to me.

There is absolutely NO excuse (except for mental retardation & Bad health) for anyone not to be able to make money in this country.

themole
06-28-2004, 10:15 PM
Well ill pray to god Bush wins so i dont have to rely on Jesus.

What's the difference? As far as mankind is concerned.

themole
06-28-2004, 10:25 PM
Worst. Post. Ever.

What makes you think your opinion is superior to his?

For someone not even old enough to vote, please tell us where you gained so much knowledge.

Section126
06-28-2004, 11:56 PM
"John Kerry has to be the only man in history to get a purple heart for not bleeding." -

Bob Dole.

iceblizzard69
06-29-2004, 12:49 AM
What makes you think your opinion is superior to his?

For someone not even old enough to vote, please tell us where you gained so much knowledge.

I'm so surprised that you are bashing me because of my age. :rolleyes2 Who cares how old I am?

I never said my opinion was superior. I said it was a bad post. This thread had nothing to do with religion, and then some guy just comes in and says we should put our faith in Jesus Christ and that Jesus won't let us down. This thread had nothing to do with that and some guy just comes in and tries to shove his religion down my throat, telling me not to trust humans and that they will let me down, and that Jesus won't.

paul13
06-29-2004, 12:53 AM
What's the difference? As far as mankind is concerned.The difference is Kerry will eventually enslave us all if he is elected because he is not leader but only a follower at best he depends on other peoples opinions and never his own.

paul13
06-29-2004, 12:58 AM
What makes you think your opinion is superior to his?

For someone not even old enough to vote, please tell us where you gained so much knowledge.Well what makes your opinion so much better than his after all there his OPINIONS not yours.

themole
06-29-2004, 07:39 AM
I'm so surprised that you are bashing me because of my age. :rolleyes2 Who cares how old I am?

I never said my opinion was superior. I said it was a bad post. This thread had nothing to do with religion, and then some guy just comes in and says we should put our faith in Jesus Christ and that Jesus won't let us down. This thread had nothing to do with that and some guy just comes in and tries to shove his religion down my throat, telling me not to trust humans and that they will let me down, and that Jesus won't.

No! he did not try to shove his opinion down anyones throat. He merely expressed IT. WHICH doesn't make it the"worst. post. ever." It just makes it his post! It has the same weight as anyone elses on this board.

Well..actually the government cares how old you are! That is why they/we put minimum age limits on when you vote, drive, drink and hopefully serve your COUNTRY.

nick1
06-29-2004, 07:43 AM
Well ill pray to god Bush wins so i dont have to rely on Jesus.

It does not matter because as I heard the bible says that Jesus is coming in 2006

themole
06-29-2004, 09:56 AM
It does not matter because as I heard the bible says that Jesus is coming in 2006


No! The Three Dog Night said "Eli's coming". :lol:

The bible says: No one knows when that time will be, only the father knows.

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 10:13 AM
No! The Three Dog Night said "Eli's coming". :lol:

The bible says: No one knows when that time will be, only the father knows.


I akways get a kick out of Born Again Christians who talk about all the signs that Jesus is coming soon. As usual, people only read the parts of the Bible they want to read and ignore things like "I will come unkown...as a thief in the night".

Dolphan7
06-29-2004, 11:46 AM
I akways get a kick out of Born Again Christians who talk about all the signs that Jesus is coming soon. As usual, people only read the parts of the Bible they want to read and ignore things like "I will come unkown...as a thief in the night".
True. Anyone who places a date on Christ's return obviously has not studied their bible well. Could be tomorrow, could be in 100 years. We just won't know. But the signs are there that it could be sooner , than later.

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 11:59 AM
True. Anyone who places a date on Christ's return obviously has not studied their bible well. Could be tomorrow, could be in 100 years. We just won't know. But the signs are there that it could be sooner , than later.


DAMN MAN!!! You were doing SO well there!! You just can't agree that..."the Bible states that he will come as a surprise", and then finish it with, "but the signs are there that it will be soon". Unless of course you want to build in a contradiction within the Bible which a lot of people do without even realizing it. Bottom line, either it's going to be unexpected, or it will be apparent. It CAN'T be both at the same time, they're mutually exclusive.

dean_siu
06-29-2004, 12:15 PM
he hasnt done any of those things, your right there. he did however sell out his country to make some money overseas.......if you dont like the US that much, then move out, we wouldnt miss him thats for sure. :fire:


Moore sold out his country??? How about all the times Bush has sold out his country??? He's elected to serve the people and has done nothing but look after his own ego and business interests. If you want to find something disgraceful, this is it.

Dolphan7
06-29-2004, 12:23 PM
DAMN MAN!!! You were doing SO well there!! You just can't agree that..."the Bible states that he will come as a surprise", and then finish it with, "but the signs are there that it will be soon". Unless of course you want to build in a contradiction within the Bible which a lot of people do without even realizing it. Bottom line, either it's going to be unexpected, or it will be apparent. It CAN'T be both at the same time, they're mutually exclusive.
We are in agreement here my friend. I did not say "will" be soon. I said "could " be sooner than later. The word "could" is a big difference than "will", and indicates a possibility, not a definite.

themole
06-29-2004, 12:24 PM
Moore sold out his country??? How about all the times Bush has sold out his country??? He's elected to serve the people and has done nothing but look after his own ego and business interests. If you want to find something disgraceful, this is it.-*

Now it's time for you to produce some facts! Bush has sold out his country. How so?

1.?
2.?
3.?

Just give me three.

themole
06-29-2004, 12:30 PM
We are in agreement here my friend. I did not say "will" be soon. I said "could " be sooner than later. The word "could" is a big difference than "will", and indicates a possibility, not a definite.


Time is irrelevant to the eternities. It doesn't matter when. What matters is...personal preparedness. Are ya square with the teachings? :D

Dolphan7
06-29-2004, 12:34 PM
Time is irrelevant to the eternities. It doesn't matter when. What matters is...personal preparedness. Are ya square with the teachings? :D
Yes I am.

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 01:19 PM
Moore sold out his country??? How about all the times Bush has sold out his country??? He's elected to serve the people and has done nothing but look after his own ego and business interests. If you want to find something disgraceful, this is it.

I find it hysterical that you loudly proclaim to be a Fiedler supporter as well as a Kerry supporter. Two men whose Win/Loss totals are the result of other mens efforts.

nick1
06-29-2004, 01:52 PM
No! The Three Dog Night said "Eli's coming". :lol:

The bible says: No one knows when that time will be, only the father knows.

really? ok I just heard that, I don't read the Bible although I should

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 02:01 PM
really? ok I just heard that, I don't read the Bible although I should

Actually...the Bible said to mail PhinPhan1227 $50 bucks. Seriously, it's in there..darndest thing..... ;)

themole
06-29-2004, 02:20 PM
Actually...the Bible said to mail PhinPhan1227 $50 bucks. Seriously, it's in there..darndest thing..... ;)

NO!!! actually, you can get the better deal by mailing your check of $49.99 to themole @ The church of what's happening now.

Beware of "Moles and 1227s" in sheeps clothing. :lol:

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 02:29 PM
NO!!! actually, you can get the better deal by mailing your check of $49.99 to themole @ The church of what's happening now.

Beware of "Moles and 1227s" in sheeps clothing. :lol:


HAH!!! The Molists would have you spend more by having to buy an envelope and stamp!!! The Church of 1227 accepts PayPal!!!... :D

Dolphan7
06-29-2004, 02:37 PM
:lol: You guys are too funny.

themole
06-29-2004, 02:41 PM
HAH!!! The Molists would have you spend more by having to buy an envelope and stamp!!! The Church of 1227 accepts PayPal!!!... :D

At what point does the "law of deminishing returns" kick in here? $.02.. My overhead is killing me! Wait a minute...If I keep this up HE will. :lol:

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 02:45 PM
At what point does the "law of deminishing returns" kick in here? $.02.. My overhead is killing me! Wait a minute...If I keep this up HE will. :lol:


Fortunately God invented humor as well. And the REAL beauty is that as a religious institution, I don't have to pay taxes on the $50!! So get busy people!!! I'd better see some action on PayPal!!! :D

themole
06-29-2004, 02:57 PM
Fortunately God invented humor as well. And the REAL beauty is that as a religious institution, I don't have to pay taxes on the $50!! So get busy people!!! I'd better see some action on PayPal!!! :D


WHAT!!!!!screemed the athiestNO TAXESon churches! And I have to pay/collect on my business? ;) Here's another one for the ACLU.

PhinPhan1227
06-29-2004, 03:02 PM
WHAT!!!!!screemed the athiestNO TAXESon churches! And I have to pay/collect on my business? ;) Here's another one for the ACLU.

Lol...the ACLU will never touch THAT case...as a non-profit they also escape taxes under the same umbrella. It's the one time the ACLU would actually DEFEND the churches :roflmao: :lol: :roflmao: :lol:

themole
06-29-2004, 03:26 PM
Lol...the ACLU will never touch THAT case...as a non-profit they also escape taxes under the same umbrella. It's the one time the ACLU would actually DEFEND the churches :roflmao: :lol: :roflmao: :lol:


Like on one hand... when there is one accusing finger being pointed, there are three being pointed back at the accuser?

While the sixteenth amendment sticks in my craw, those who drew it up in 1913, knew full well the importance of religion in and to this nation and either respected it or kept well away from firing the preachers up. I weep for the 2% income tax of the past.

Mr.Murder
06-30-2004, 03:12 PM
And Bush is a leader? Mr. "Dad's buddies bailed me out"? Kerry worked with bipartisan efforts as well in addition to commanding under fire.

Bush was not elected but utter morons did vote for him.Some good people got duped as well, the press led them along.

Anyways mole the arguments that the actions were based on are the point, not that it happened, was not questioning that. Good chance those guys were the first 'desert storm syndrome' folks for their dealing with such ordinance from ww1. And the gov't (as usual) did not want to take care of what they had started for them.

1227 is against war but has pushed for this stuff from day one. Orwellian peace protestor of the year is 1227.

PhinPhan1227
06-30-2004, 03:33 PM
And Bush is a leader? Mr. "Dad's buddies bailed me out"? Kerry worked with bipartisan efforts as well in addition to commanding under fire.

Bush was not elected but utter morons did vote for him.Some good people got duped as well, the press led them along.

Anyways mole the arguments that the actions were based on are the point, not that it happened, was not questioning that. Good chance those guys were the first 'desert storm syndrome' folks for their dealing with such ordinance from ww1. And the gov't (as usual) did not want to take care of what they had started for them.

1227 is against war but has pushed for this stuff from day one. Orwellian peace protestor of the year is 1227.


What you and those like you fail to understand Murder is that war is rarely a two sided position. ONE side is all that is needed to start a war. Had Iraq stayed within it's own borders I would have been strongly against invading it. Once it left those borders however, war was brought to us, and the choice was either lay down ans surrender or fight back. Our current action is the resolution of an ongoing war, and that WELL suits my opposition to war. As for Bush being a leader? Yes, he has a goal and he works towards that goal. Could he use a bit of tempering and a bit MORE compromise...yes he could. The man has PLENTY of faults and flaws. But Kerry is ALL compromise. When he walks into a room he doesn't bring his vision...he brings the desire to shape himself to OTHERS vision. Kerry is the ULTIMATE follower, and that's not what we need in a President.

Mr.Murder
06-30-2004, 04:08 PM
Stayed within its borders? They were not even sovereign within their own borders in the Bush Jr war, thanks to no-fly zones. And by the way marge tutwiler was James Baker's ***'t sec of state and sold slant drill oil heads to Kuwait that was at peak risk and was using the technology to steal oil from Saddam it is why he invaded. Saudis were using the same technology and feared the same action.

Stop trying to use the decade old excuse there was a reason Bush Sr did not invade either.George failed to grasp that and went ahead to one up his dad's record vs. the bad guys. Hubris...

PhinPhan1227
06-30-2004, 04:14 PM
Stayed within its borders? They were not even sovereign within their own borders in the Bush Jr war, thanks to no-fly zones. And by the way marge tutwiler was James Baker's ***'t sec of state and sold slant drill oil heads to Kuwait that was at peak risk and was using the technology to steal oil from Saddam it is why he invaded. Saudis were using the same technology and feared the same action.

Stop trying to use the decade old excuse there was a reason Bush Sr did not invade either.George failed to grasp that and went ahead to one up his dad's record vs. the bad guys. Hubris...

Bush I did invade Iraq Murder...he just didn't remove Saddam from power. Saddam was given a 2nd chance, and 3rd chance...and 59th chance. But the war was still ongoing. We had troops in the air and on the ground putting their lives on the line every day. As for the slant drilling, that was Iraq's allegation. Even if true, they could have taken it up in court, or siezed the oil fields in question. Last time I checked, there was no drilling being done in the Kuwait City Zoo.

Mr.Murder
06-30-2004, 04:31 PM
That was not Iraq's allegation it is a fact they have a patented slant drill heads it was known fact in the business world.The allegation of the killed babies at a hospital was the work of an ambassador's daughter who was half Kuwaiti and in the USA at the time yet her story was put in the media and debunked after the fact. Orwellian.

Marge Tutwiler. Her folks lived to the Halliburtons for some time... ***'t Sec of State to James Baker (Reagan's Boss). The initial okay was for Saddam to only invade their wells and leave the rest of their country alone. Saddam was a straw man for quite some time. She did wonderful work as an ambassador to Morrocco for James Baker's Kerr McGhee land sede of West Sahara's oil land that was protested by the OAS before 9-11 and before Madrid.

Had they never stolen oil from Iraq's postwar economy that was dealing with recession following their near decade of war with Iran it would not have been an issue. Kuwait was increasing market share and forcing Saddam to sell lower when the economy needed more so he resumed the war machine tactics we helped fund and support. The buildings we bombed for his military command were contracted through US firms in that war. We had the blueprints to their building and did precision demolitions. A perfect straw man.

And guess how many contra-style funds helped aid terror that was written off as Sadda, counterinsurgency? Hopefully someone comes forward with the information it is being contra-cepted for expediency at the time. Maybe when we're all dead it will be known (smirk).

PhinPhan1227
06-30-2004, 04:35 PM
Again... a nice theory except for the fact that they could have just rolled over the border and taken over those sites where the drilling was taking place. Instead they chose to take over the country and rape and pilliage along the way. seriously Murder, doesn't it ever bother you to always be on the side of a guy like Saddam? Do you have THAT much hatred for capitalism and freedom that you are willing to see these individuals as worthwhile?

Section126
06-30-2004, 05:15 PM
Again... a nice theory except for the fact that they could have just rolled over the border and taken over those sites where the drilling was taking place. Instead they chose to take over the country and rape and pilliage along the way. seriously Murder, doesn't it ever bother you to always be on the side of a guy like Saddam? Do you have THAT much hatred for capitalism and freedom that you are willing to see these individuals as worthwhile?


You don't seem to understand.......

People like Murder are ALWAYS on the wrongside of history.

They backed every murderous commie and director as long as a republican was in office.

Liberals for the most part are either dishonest hypocrites or just dumb.

Mr.Murder
06-30-2004, 05:18 PM
He went after the leadership and business people involved cannot say I blame him. Stealing from another country can lead to that. He got out of hand , had there been an international call for fairness on Kuwait stealing their oil perhaps it would never have gotten to that.

Thanks for finally agreeing that Bush's OK on the intial stages of the invasion was as much a part of the problem and to assume less than what occurred in the matter was foolish. Nice of Bush Sr to at least realize upon letting the breach occur that occupation would be too logistically straining.

He did not have the coalition's approval had he done so the disclosure of his son Marvin's work for firms that Tutwiler supplied would have been made known. The Congress agreed to settle it on terms very friendly to bush at the time.

Moore was correct to point out Democrat mistakes in his film as well especially the vote thefts that occurred not just in FLA. East Tennessee had problems with it also, no Senators spoke out. Kerry's war vote will be looked back as apolitical necessity. If he fought it with 9-11 sentiment it would have led to no dissent and the terrible results would continue.

There was enough complicit information that he knew something was going down in FLA alone. Jeb putting the guard on alert status, aWol staying in a hotel with SAM emplacements on the roof, Condie Rice warning people not to fly commerical, and Ashcroft doing likewise and still cutting terror funding.

Wislon said the CIA outing is along the lines of the PNAC trail. Think there is going to be a big ax fall soon. Olson resigned Bush and Cheney each have independent counsel (Bush's trial lawyer is a watergate/Iran/Contra holdover who also does damage settlements).

Bush gave the okay, then acted surprised when it went beyond that. Taking the wells would have set no example of accountability for those who oversaw it. That Bush would be shocked by a logical conclusion of the follow-up suggests he was nearly out of the loop in the matter in his own right.

On Saddam's side wopuld be the person who shook his hands (Rumsfeld) to supply him chemical weapons. Or someone who approved his initial invasion(Bush Sr).

Mr.Murder
06-30-2004, 05:19 PM
Who was the ambassador to China? George Bush Sr? Thanks for ignoring history you claim to know .

Section126
06-30-2004, 05:22 PM
On Saddam's side wopuld be the person who shook his hands (Rumsfeld) to supply him chemical weapons. Or someone who approved his initial invasion(Bush Sr).

T read the last line and saw TWO lies and decided to not read the rest. Sorry.

PhinPhan1227
06-30-2004, 06:12 PM
He went after the leadership and business people involved cannot say I blame him. Stealing from another country can lead to that. He got out of hand , had there been an international call for fairness on Kuwait stealing their oil perhaps it would never have gotten to that.

Thanks for finally agreeing that Bush's OK on the intial stages of the invasion was as much a part of the problem and to assume less than what occurred in the matter was foolish. Nice of Bush Sr to at least realize upon letting the breach occur that occupation would be too logistically straining.

He did not have the coalition's approval had he done so the disclosure of his son Marvin's work for firms that Tutwiler supplied would have been made known. The Congress agreed to settle it on terms very friendly to bush at the time.

Moore was correct to point out Democrat mistakes in his film as well especially the vote thefts that occurred not just in FLA. East Tennessee had problems with it also, no Senators spoke out. Kerry's war vote will be looked back as apolitical necessity. If he fought it with 9-11 sentiment it would have led to no dissent and the terrible results would continue.

There was enough complicit information that he knew something was going down in FLA alone. Jeb putting the guard on alert status, aWol staying in a hotel with SAM emplacements on the roof, Condie Rice warning people not to fly commerical, and Ashcroft doing likewise and still cutting terror funding.

Wislon said the CIA outing is along the lines of the PNAC trail. Think there is going to be a big ax fall soon. Olson resigned Bush and Cheney each have independent counsel (Bush's trial lawyer is a watergate/Iran/Contra holdover who also does damage settlements).

Bush gave the okay, then acted surprised when it went beyond that. Taking the wells would have set no example of accountability for those who oversaw it. That Bush would be shocked by a logical conclusion of the follow-up suggests he was nearly out of the loop in the matter in his own right.

On Saddam's side wopuld be the person who shook his hands (Rumsfeld) to supply him chemical weapons. Or someone who approved his initial invasion(Bush Sr).


I now know what "Mr Murder" stands for...after this post the English language is bleeding like a stuck pig.

Mr.Murder
06-30-2004, 06:21 PM
And after your replies the repiglican argument is as well.... touchee'

PhinPhan1227
06-30-2004, 06:41 PM
And after your replies the repiglican argument is as well.... touchee'

Um...okey dokey Murder...whatever helps you sleep at night in your little red beret.

Mr.Murder
07-01-2004, 12:39 AM
Only if I can have freedom fries from the McJobless recovery meal deal...

paul13
07-01-2004, 01:33 AM
Funny I was just thinking the donkey semble for democrats is perfect for them because they all are jackasses.

PhinPhan1227
07-01-2004, 10:50 AM
Only if I can have freedom fries from the McJobless recovery meal deal...


Wow...time warp...I haven't heard anyone try to use the "Jobless Recovery" line in months...must be all those silly people who actually read the newspaper. Darned good thing we've got "Head in the Sand Murder" to remind us what things were like last year.

Mr.Murder
07-01-2004, 09:34 PM
http://www.dol.gov/opa/media/press/eta/ui/current.htm

Apology accepted. At least make valid points to accompany paltry putdowns there 1227.

PhinPhan1227
07-02-2004, 02:01 AM
http://www.dol.gov/opa/media/press/eta/ui/current.htm

Apology accepted. At least make valid points to accompany paltry putdowns there 1227.

That active fantasy life is still ongoing I see Murder. The economy is healthy, jobs are being added, and for the YEAR, unemployment is down. Reality sucks when it doesn't go your way doesn't it Murder? One more thing...the only economic figure which counts on election day is consumer confidence. Have you seen those numbers lately?

Mr.Murder
07-02-2004, 03:34 AM
Yeah 351,000 new unemployed indictative of treading water at best. Of course employment is up for the year in your book, not better off than it was 4 years ago though.

You read that link? Consumer confidence equals GM having a 15% drop in sales and Ford stock going down as well? That dog wont hunt 1227.

Paul funny you were thinking... at all... and I got your <A HREF="http://www.mule.net/"> Mule </A> right here. :D

PhinPhan1227
07-02-2004, 10:07 AM
Lol...it's ok Murder, we EXPECT you to deny reality on this board. It would shock us if you did anything less. By the way, you ARE aware that new car sales always drop at the beginning of the summer right? People don't rush out to buy the 2004 one month before the 2005 comes out. Oh that DARNED real world again!!

"Consumer confidence leaps

Conference board measure of confidence posts 8-point gain to best level in two years.
June 29, 2004: 10:18 AM EDT



NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - U.S. consumers were far more confident in June, according to the most recent Conference Board survey released Tuesday, with the index coming in well above Wall Street expectations.

The board's June index came in at 101.9., up from the revised 93.1 reading in May. It marked the best reading for the index in two years. Economists surveyed by Briefing.com forecast the index would rise to 95.

Consumer confidence is important because it correlates closely with consumer spending behavior, and spending by consumers accounts for more than two-thirds of the U.S. economy.

"Looking ahead, consumers expect the economy to continue to grow at a healthy clip and to continue to generate additional jobs," said a statement from Lynn Franco, director of The Conference Board's Consumer Research Center. "And, with prices at the pump beginning to ease, the short-term outlook remains favorable."

The survey of 5,000 U.S. households found those who believe that business conditions are "good" rose to 25.6 percent, up from 22.2 percent in the previous survey, while those who believe conditions have worsened fell to 17.5 percent from 21.6 percent.

Those looking for further improvement in conditions rose to 23.4 percent from 22.8 percent, while those who believe conditions wll worsen declined to 9.2 percent from 10.1 percent.

The outlook on employment has also improved, helped by several months of strong monthly employment reports from the governmnent.

Those who said jobs are "plentiful" rose to 18.0 percent from 16.6 percent. That still trailed the 26.5 percent who said jobs are "hard to get." But that's down from the 30.3 percent who believed jobs were hard to get in the previous month's survey. "

ohall
07-02-2004, 10:35 AM
Again... a nice theory except for the fact that they could have just rolled over the border and taken over those sites where the drilling was taking place. Instead they chose to take over the country and rape and pilliage along the way. seriously Murder, doesn't it ever bother you to always be on the side of a guy like Saddam? Do you have THAT much hatred for capitalism and freedom that you are willing to see these individuals as worthwhile?

I believe Saddam cleared this matter up yesterday. He said he invaded Kuwait because the Kuwaiti’s are dogs. His words not mine.

Oliver...

Mr.Murder
07-02-2004, 09:18 PM
Crappy Jobs Report

+112,000 jobs in June. That's less than the 140,000 or so which need to be created in order to keep up with the increase in the working age population.

Pretty Pictures

Jobwatch takes a look at the latest job numbers and finds them rather lacking. They also point out that the "underemployment" rate has increased.http://www.jobwatch.org/

It is okay to be wrong and stubborn 1227, it's why you support Bush he is the same way...

ohall
07-02-2004, 11:04 PM
Crappy Jobs Report

+112,000 jobs in June. That's less than the 140,000 or so which need to be created in order to keep up with the increase in the working age population.

Pretty Pictures

Jobwatch takes a look at the latest job numbers and finds them rather lacking. They also point out that the "underemployment" rate has increased.http://www.jobwatch.org/

It is okay to be wrong and stubborn 1227, it's why you support Bush he is the same way...

Yeah crappy for Kerry, not for the 112k ppl who now have jobs they wouldn't have if a person like Kerry was President.

Oliver...

BigFinFan
07-02-2004, 11:25 PM
Yeah crappy for Kerry, not for the 112k ppl who now have jobs they wouldn't have if a person like Kerry was President.

Oliver...

OWNED

PhinPhan1227
07-03-2004, 11:10 AM
Crappy Jobs Report

+112,000 jobs in June. That's less than the 140,000 or so which need to be created in order to keep up with the increase in the working age population.

Pretty Pictures

Jobwatch takes a look at the latest job numbers and finds them rather lacking. They also point out that the "underemployment" rate has increased.http://www.jobwatch.org/

It is okay to be wrong and stubborn 1227, it's why you support Bush he is the same way...


Murder, you're the perfect Kerry supporter...you disapear for the three months that we're having 275-350k job increases, but then jump in whith both feet when we finally have an off month. This is actually a variation of the Kerry theme...the "invisi-flip".

Mr.Murder
07-03-2004, 06:38 PM
We add 150,000 workers a month to the job force, and unemployment rates have featured a rolling number of 305-351k a month. Vertical transfer of work force segments does not equal good growth. Wal-Mart and Target announced lower porjected estimates and decreased sales at a time of the year when disposable income should be highest with school out...

So record mass layoffs, record deficit, and "outsourcing is good" equals "Owned" you need to take basic math again because less is not more when dollars are involved.

ohall
07-03-2004, 11:03 PM
We add 150,000 workers a month to the job force, and unemployment rates have featured a rolling number of 305-351k a month. Vertical transfer of work force segments does not equal good growth. Wal-Mart and Target announced lower porjected estimates and decreased sales at a time of the year when disposable income should be highest with school out...

So record mass layoffs, record deficit, and "outsourcing is good" equals "Owned" you need to take basic math again because less is not more when dollars are involved.

Nonsense! The unemployment rate stayed the same, 5.6%. If you think this country can ever get back to the Internet bubble unemployment rate of 3.6% you are out of your mind. We are very fortunet this country did not fold under that bubble that Clinton created.

Oliver...