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dolfan87
06-21-2004, 12:56 AM
Being a former admin of this site, I have watched it grow from a small time fan site, to the major fan base force that it is.

However, of the over 4000 members, do you know how many of you have ponied up the dough to become a premium member?

7

Want to know the sick part? at least 4 of those are the admins of this site, and one is a freaking Bills fan. A BILLS FAN!!

I think that is the saddest thing I have ever heard. It takes 24 premium members at $84 a year to keep this website on the internet.

I told AJ yesterday that he should just charge every single one of you. Hell at .99 cents per member, per year, he would be flowing in cash!

But of course he said no. So he is going to auction off some of his Dolphins gear to help pay the expenses. Nice huh?

17 more to go, and the Dolphins faithful are proving yet again to need a swift kick in the butt to get it rolling

I am ashamed of those of you who can honestly afford it, because I know of the over 4000 at least 17 of you CAN!

If this post sounds angry, well it is. You use this place every single day, so have some respect, and pony up.

end rant

Gram

Fresh
06-21-2004, 05:47 AM
Uhh, I'd pay $.99 to become a premium member...but $84? You mean the same amount that I can get new air force one's for? The same amount that I can a swingman NBA jersey for, and have enough $$$ left to go out to the movies? The same amount that I can get Madden 2005 for and have $34 left over(save the tax)?

Can I afford it? Sure, but that doesn't mean that personal things don't mean more.

Question for you: If it bothers so much, why don't you donate $100-500 a year?

(no offense to the site of course, which is great...but this thread deserves this kind of post)

R_t_Kraken
06-21-2004, 06:11 AM
Uhh, I'd pay $.99 to become a premium member...but $84? You mean the same amount that I can get new air force one's for? The same amount that I can a swingman NBA jersey for, and have enough $$$ left to go out to the movies? The same amount that I can get Madden 2005 for and have $34 left over(save the tax)?

Can I afford it? Sure, but that doesn't mean that personal things don't mean more.

Question for you: If it bothers so much, why don't you donate $100-500 a year?

(no offense to the site of course, which is great...but this thread deserves this kind of post)

Hate to say it, but I'd have to agree with this post. I'd love to help out this site, but I couldn't afford it. There are more important things in life then a Miami Dolphins forum.

Don't get me wrong here, I love the Phins just as much as the next fan. I enjoy this site, and the information I get, and the fun, in depth conversation from fellow fans around the world. But as much as I enjoy this site, and would love to help out, that price is a little too steep.

I would suggest lowering it, to maybe say $25 dollars a year? I mean come on, you said yourself you only have 7 Premium members. If you significantly lowered the price to support this site, I'm sure you would get many more fans willing to donate.

I'm sure you would get at least 50 fans of 4000, willing to give up 25 dollars annually to help the site. And probably even more than that. So lets do the math.

7premium members x $84.00 = $588.00
50 premium members x $25.00 = $1250.00

That's more than doubling what you are receiving now. It makes sense guys.


Just some food for thought. I'd love to help out, but I really can't afford it at the moment.

JPhinfan86
06-21-2004, 06:50 AM
I like this idea alot. Lower the cost and recieve more donations...is there any reason why it wouldn't work? As soon as I can afford it, I would most definetly give 25 buckaroos.

CpuFan
06-21-2004, 07:06 AM
If I wanted to pay I would pay the Miami Herald or one of the other NFL Services. Why should I pay for that which I can get for free online in the Newspapers?

Traditionally Messageboards have always been free. That being said no could asked for more than that. As far as I am concerned you took it upon yourselves when you jumped into the deal. You knew that it would cost money when you started.

But to belley ache about it now when you knew beforehand shows lack of foresight on your part. Now that being said I would pay a buck if everyone else did no problem with that. A buck a year if 4000 did, not big deal. But 84? No way.

I hate ESPN And those pay sites because they give crappy news and charge for that which can be gotten for free. So make it a buck for everyone and you have a deal. You wanna flame or ban me for this, Go ahead. It's your choice but I guarantee you there are alot who feel just like me.

Hey I can understand your concern, but plan it out better or suffer the results of your poor planning. That's life...

Cannonboy
06-21-2004, 07:07 AM
I agree, lower the cost and I bet you would get a lot more people couching up the cash. $84.00 is steep, so how about lowering it and let the cash flow in.

ThunderCane
06-21-2004, 08:12 AM
I am not really going to add any thoughts that have already not been said. I just like to voice that I agree. $84 is just to steep for a message board.

BLUEPHIN
06-21-2004, 08:20 AM
2 kids, mortgage, car insurance, 2 freakin dogs, one mother-in-law and direct - tv(sunday ticket), my wife would have my soul if i kicked in cash like that - sorry boys.
P.S. - dolfan87 , you ever hear the saying - you will catch more flies with honey than vinegar, ...just something to think about.

xiidaen
06-21-2004, 08:24 AM
A couple of thoughts here:

1) I've paid for other sites online, and I generally find that someone here scoops those sites or posts the same information in roughly the same time period. At the same time, there is a better community here, the site is well moderated, and the end result is I'm on here many times a day and usually ignore other sites unless I want to check on 'source' articles elsewhere. The discussion here is much better than other message board I've been to, thanks (I believe) to the work of AJ and the mods. So, FOR ME the site is well worth supporting.

Now, the great part is, you don't have to agree. If you think that this site is worth supporting at the $10 level, the $25 dollar level popularized above, $50 or $5000 -- you can donate that amount to the site!

Donate to FinHeaven & Co:
https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=webmaster%40finheaven.com&item_name=Donations&cn=Username&tax=0&currency_code=USD

I guess what we're saying is that some of us find this site valuable and do what we can to support it. If you think you have $25 dollars to give to the cause and that's a comfortable number for you, then click the above link and send it along. This is a fabulous web site and I've made some great friends here -- if you agree and you have some $$ to spare, help AJ out before he has to sell off his dolphins gear to keep it running -- whatever the amount is.

Muck
06-21-2004, 09:02 AM
If I wanted to pay I would pay the Miami Herald or one of the other NFL Services. Why should I pay for that which I can get for free online in the Newspapers?

It's not about what's free and what's not free. It's about supporting something important to you. I download music like the next guy. But if I like a band, I go out and buy their CD to support them. It's just the principle of it. Doesn't make me better or worse than anyone else. Just something I like to do. As for this board, I give hundreds of dollars and many hours of my time. Last year I lost my job. But I donated as much as I could (after all, this site kept me sane. :rofl: ). Just something I like to support. :)


Traditionally Messageboards have always been free. That being said no could asked for more than that. As far as I am concerned you took it upon yourselves when you jumped into the deal. You knew that it would cost money when you started. But to belley ache about it now when you knew beforehand shows lack of foresight on your part.

Not true. This site cost next to nothing when Gram and A.J. started it. It was very, very small. Now it's not small anymore. And it ain't cheap. People complain when the site is slow. They complain when the site goes down. Well, keeping the site fast and stable costs a lot of money. Two years ago, the site nearly shut down. That's when we finally starting accepting Premium Members.


I hate ESPN And those pay sites because they give crappy news and charge for that which can be gotten for free. So make it a buck for everyone and you have a deal. You wanna flame or ban me for this, Go ahead. It's your choice but I guarantee you there are alot who feel just like me.

Question: Why do people automatically feel like we're going to ban them from the site, and then throw down that ultimatum?? Why get hostile like that?? We're not forcing anybody to pay for anything. Believe me, it KILLS us to have to ask for money. And the goal is to make the site pay for itself (without any member having to give a dime). And we've made great progress towards that. But we're not there yet. We're just a few young guys running a site. Most of whom are college students. So you can understand what the cash flow is like. :lol:

ESPN, the Herald, etc. has paid employees. They're in business to make a profit. We gladly do this for free and will never make a profit. That never has been and never will be our goal. We do not and will not profit from our membership or this site. Premium Members know this, as they are privy to our bottom line. We just want the site to remain on the net in an enjoyable state.


Hey I can understand your concern, but plan it out better or suffer the results of your poor planning. That's life...

Andrew was about 14 when he started this site. Can't knock them for not forseeing his little site becoming the biggest out there.

If you want to give $1, great. There's a donation button at the top of the screen (well, there was. :smackhead In the meantime, use xiidaen's link). We appreciate ANYTHING we receive. And we'll put an award for donating (a star) under your screenname. So it will be seen and everyone will know you donated.

Again, the site will always remain free to all. And we're working towards creating a self-sustaining entity. Right now, we just need a little help.

Thank you to all who have donated and to all who visit this great site. We appreciate you all. :)

Superself
06-21-2004, 09:06 AM
A couple of thoughts here:

1) I've paid for other sites online, and I generally find that someone here scoops those sites or posts the same information in roughly the same time period. At the same time, there is a better community here, the site is well moderated, and the end result is I'm on here many times a day and usually ignore other sites unless I want to check on 'source' articles elsewhere. The discussion here is much better than other message board I've been to, thanks (I believe) to the work of AJ and the mods. So, FOR ME the site is well worth supporting.

Now, the great part is, you don't have to agree. If you think that this site is worth supporting at the $10 level, the $25 dollar level popularized above, $50 or $5000 -- you can donate that amount to the site!

Donate to FinHeaven & Co:
https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=webmaster%40finheaven.com&item_name=Donations&cn=Username&tax=0&currency_code=USD

I guess what we're saying is that some of us find this site valuable and do what we can to support it. If you think you have $25 dollars to give to the cause and that's a comfortable number for you, then click the above link and send it along. This is a fabulous web site and I've made some great friends here -- if you agree and you have some $$ to spare, help AJ out before he has to sell off his dolphins gear to keep it running -- whatever the amount is.

I agree. For those saying that premium membership is too steep well why not donate???
I can't afford the premium membership either. But giving as much as you possibly can helps out a lot.
I got kids, a mortgage, car/insurance payments, bills out the arse. So yeah I know its hard but just think how bad it would be if you came to finheaven one morning to see a blank web page saying that it was down for good.
That would suck. :shakeno:

Muck
06-21-2004, 09:20 AM
Uhh, I'd pay $.99 to become a premium member...but $84?

Man, I thought we were worth more than that. :cry: ;)

Hey, your AFO's will be replaced soon. And your swingman jerseys will up in the closet soon. But FinHeaven will be here for good. And I bet you get more use out of us than them. :D

Don't ask about my shoes. :lol:

SmokeyPhinz
06-21-2004, 09:23 AM
We all have bills to pay and other things to do in life that require funds. I don't feel the need to pay to get information, so if it eventually happens that we all have to pay to gain access to this site then I guess I'm out. I'm supporting the Dolphins by paying about 400.00 for my trip down there on September 12 to see the opener, if that isn't supporting this franchise, then nothing is. I love this site b/c it's fun, free, and entertaining. I would hate to have to pay

Muck
06-21-2004, 09:25 AM
Again, nobody has to pay for anything. This site will always be free. We're just asking for help from anyone who feels they can help us out right now.

Ferretsquig
06-21-2004, 09:25 AM
You guys do a great job on this site, and some of you obviously put a lot of time into updating it. But the fact is this is a site built around the message board. As espn found out when it tried to charge for its message board service, you need to provide something unique in order to draw users to pay. A message board is a nice thing, and this site certainly has one of the better phins boards, but you will not get people to pay simply for the privilege of being able to post on your board. But gj on the site...

finfan54
06-21-2004, 09:32 AM
I like this idea alot. Lower the cost and recieve more donations...is there any reason why it wouldn't work? As soon as I can afford it, I would most definetly give 25 buckaroos.

How about $5 every quarter or something? I personally would not pay 25 right now since i am unemployed and will be attending school for the next two years full time but if i cant scrape up $5 for some serious info then it must be a sad state of affairs. Keep in mind alot of info can be gotten elsewhere and people will move to where they can get it even though they like this sight.
You need to get the demand started for support and numbers are always better than the few who pay more. Also another thing is to put up numbers so people understand what money is being made and what it goes to so eveyone is on hte up and up about continous support. Kind of like my church that always shows the accounting every week. It lets everyone know what is needed so people act.

Fresh
06-21-2004, 09:40 AM
Man, I thought we were worth more than that. :cry: ;)

Hey, your AFO's will be replaced soon. And your swingman jerseys will up in the closet soon. But FinHeaven will be here for good. And I bet you get more use out of us than them. :D

Don't ask about my shoes. :lol:

LOL, AFO's never die... ;)

About the $.99 thing, Gram mentioned $.99 in his original post, and that's why I brought it up.

Hell at .99 cents per member, per year, we would be flowing in cash!"

iceblizzard69
06-21-2004, 09:48 AM
I've donated to the site in the past. I'm not a Premium Member because $84 is a lot. However, as someone said before, you don't have to be a Premium Member to give money to the site. It isn't like the only two options are to give $84 a year to the site or give nothing.

Jeep
06-21-2004, 10:02 AM
Quit whining, fork over some dough and feel good while your reading, bitchin and complaining..

nuf sed!!!

PhinKev
06-21-2004, 10:03 AM
I understand the problem. I contribute to the best sci-fi news and rumors site Sci Fi Guys (http://www.scifiguys.com) and it costs more to run then it generates in income. We do it because we love to do it in the same way that AJ and Muck and the rest do here.

People expect things that they would pay for in real life to be free on the Internet. That's just the way it is.

It's not fair to the people that work so hard to support and create these websites. But, that's reality.

phinfan77
06-21-2004, 10:06 AM
As a newer member I've been very impressed with the content of this website, both the design and the people who post. Before reading this thread I had no idea that costs were going to make the web server sell off his Dolphin Memorabilia to keep it going for us.

That shouldn't have to happen. While message boards are generally free, this site is not run by a larger company, but by someone obviously devoted to the Dolphins like ourselves. By the amount of new posts each day there seems to be a lot of people who enjoy reading and commenting here, and at any given time there are at least 10 members viewing. You'd think that some of us could pitch in and help one of our favorite sites.

That said, I have looked at the $84 dollar tag, and it does look steep. Like others posting, I have a wife, morgage, and a cat to pay for. :D Maybe different values and awards could be added for people who want to give a smaller contribution. But since I've found this site I've been on everyday, even if it's just to check the newswire(great addition guys) and to see your comments on them(great thoughts group). For that, contributing at least a little money would be worthwile.
Hell, it's my birthday today. I think giving some money to the web site that makes my mornings brighter every day will be a good gift.

dolfan87
06-21-2004, 10:07 AM
Wow,

First of all yes I have heard that you catch more flies with honey, however that wasn't working. There is a real nice honey post stuck up at the top of this page. Since I am no longer a member of the administration, I don't HAVE to be nice about this at all. I am just one of you guys now.

Second of all, I am talking to those members of this board WHO CAN AFFORD THE $84.

If you can't afford it, then I am not talking to you.

If you want to donate a $1, $5, $10, $25, whatever...then do it soon, cause what really made me upset was hearing that AJ had to put his stuff on e bay. That is crappy, and you all know it.

I have a wife, 4 year old, dog, mortgage, direct T.V., a car to rebuild, and this site is still important enough to me to pay the $84.

Whoever made the "should of had prior planning" B.S. statement, I have this to say; what would you of done?

As this site grew, and grew, and grew, it got to the point where AJ and I were freaking out trying to figure out how to pay for this place. We switched to a cheaper server, and the site promptly crashed every couple days. We tried getting advertisers to step up, with very limited success.

There were two options, shut this place down (which we ALMOST did) or ask for help from the people who use this place everyday.

So don't give me this "prior planning" crap.

Look if you all don't care if Fin Heaven is around, then don't pay. Almost everyone who has replied to this thread seems to rank this place just above the toilet paper they wipe with.

However, if Fin Heaven means anything at all to you, if you would miss this place when it gone, then figure out how much it would mean to you to keep it around, and send it A.J.'s way.

Gram

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 10:25 AM
Can I afford it? Sure, but that doesn't mean that personal things don't mean more.

[/i]

This statement kills me....

what you're saying is YOUR personal things mean more. You'd rather have a closet full of AFO's, and post over 5000 times on this site the one year you've been here, and let the person responsible for allowing you to be here so much to sell HIS personal stuff, in order for you to:
A: Keep YOUR stuff, and get more
B: Continue to post on the site he sold HIS stuff to save, and
C: act as though he's asking for your last freekin dime, and forcing you to pay.

Nobody said you HAVE to pay... nobody said you'll be banned if you don't...

This site grew from a total of FOUR members to over FOUR THOUSAND in just a few short years. I fail to see how that could possibly be the result of poor planning. We're talking about a small staff of volunteers running this site. AJ and Gram (Dolphan87) started this site on their own. AJ a 14 yr old kid in Tampa, and Gram living out in Arizona. Now the staff consists of that same kid in Tampa (a few years older), Muck, also in Tampa, Myself in NJ, and people like TerryTate, P4E, Dolphan39, and others spread out across the country, who donate time, effort an money to this place so Everyone can enjoy it....all 4000 of you. It's not like we have a fiscal budget, or shareholders to "plan" the financial future of the site.

I've said it in the other thread...if you think it's a cinch to run a site like this, keep it stable, manage 4000+ (and growing daily) members, and offer the features that this site has, all out of your own pockets...then I invite you to contact a hosting company, and get the ball rolling. Good Luck. :shakeno:

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 10:29 AM
This statement kills me....

what you're saying is YOUR personal things mean more. You'd rather have a closet full of AFO's, and post over 5000 times on this site the one year you've been here, and let the person responsible for allowing you to be here so much to sell HIS personal stuff, in order for you to:
A: Keep YOUR stuff, and get more
B: Continue to post on the site he sold HIS stuff to save, and
C: act as though he's asking for your last freekin dime, and forcing you to pay.

Nobody said you HAVE to pay... nobody said you'll be banned if you don't...

This site grew from a total of FOUR members to over FOUR THOUSAND in just a few short years. I fail to see how that could possibly be the result of poor planning. We're talking about a small staff of volunteers running this site. AJ and Gram (Dolphan87) started this site on their own. AJ a 14 yr old kid in Tampa, and Gram living out in Arizona. Now the staff consists of that same kid in Tampa (a few years older), Muck, also in Tampa, Myself in NJ, and people like TerryTate, P4E, Dolphan39, and others spread out across the country, who donate time, effort an money to this place so Everyone can enjoy it....all 4000 of you. It's not like we have a fiscal budget, or shareholders to "plan" the financial future of the site.

I've said it in the other thread...if you think it's a cinch to run a site like this, keep it stable, manage 4000+ (and growing daily) members, and offer the features that this site has, all out of your own pockets...then I invite you to contact a hosting company, and get the ball rolling. Good Luck. :shakeno:


BTW - I also have expenses: 2 EX-wives, rent, 3 daughters, car payment, etc. and still manage to contribute over and above the premium membership price tag.

dolfan87
06-21-2004, 10:35 AM
This statement kills me....

what you're saying is YOUR personal things mean more. You'd rather have a closet full of AFO's, and post over 5000 times on this site the one year you've been here, and let the person responsible for allowing you to be here so much to sell HIS personal stuff, in order for you to:
A: Keep YOUR stuff, and get more
B: Continue to post on the site he sold HIS stuff to save, and
C: act as though he's asking for your last freekin dime, and forcing you to pay.

Nobody said you HAVE to pay... nobody said you'll be banned if you don't...

This site grew from a total of FOUR members to over FOUR THOUSAND in just a few short years. I fail to see how that could possibly be the result of poor planning. We're talking about a small staff of volunteers running this site. AJ and Gram (Dolphan87) started this site on their own. AJ a 14 yr old kid in Tampa, and Gram living out in Arizona. Now the staff consists of that same kid in Tampa (a few years older), Muck, also in Tampa, Myself in NJ, and people like TerryTate, P4E, Dolphan39, and others spread out across the country, who donate time, effort an money to this place so Everyone can enjoy it....all 4000 of you. It's not like we have a fiscal budget, or shareholders to "plan" the financial future of the site.

I've said it in the other thread...if you think it's a cinch to run a site like this, keep it stable, manage 4000+ (and growing daily) members, and offer the features that this site has, all out of your own pockets...then I invite you to contact a hosting company, and get the ball rolling. Good Luck. :shakeno:

Amen and amen. A post so nice he posted it twice.

Gram

HofCityFan
06-21-2004, 10:38 AM
Not to be a smart azz but it breaks down to about .23 cents a day for the membership. I feel like one of those commercals for only 23 cents a day you can help feed the poor hungry information starved dolphin fan can't you please help... now back to the show.

I have been a premium member since they started it, I know that not everybody can afford it, I have the wife two kids morgage and all the credit cards that go with it. but I joined because Living in Ohio the only Fin info I could get was what espn would say or the dolphin digiest who could deliver it until it was a week old with first class mail. So it just a matter of choice if you feel it worth it and you can afford just us premuim members or donate what you can, if not then enjoy the site and I hope you can help out in the future.

I'll get off my soap box now

New England Fin
06-21-2004, 10:52 AM
I am new to Fin Heaven and I really enjoy reading and posting messages, but the fact of the matter is this: the majority of people will not pay $84.00 to become Premium Members. It is just more than most are willing to pay.
Sportsline is my favorite league site, with the average league costing about $120.00 per year. With that league you get a private league message board, a fantasy football message board, a opportunity to comment on articles, etc. You get the point. That averages $10.00 per person for a 10 team league. And lots of people play in multiple leagues.
What makes this message board more fun is that it is mostly Dolphin Fans. What makes paying for it difficult is that most message boards are free.
I think Fin Heaven has three options. Choose any of these options and you should cover your costs:
1) Charge everyone who uses the site a modest membership fee. I think people will pay to join this board. $.99 seems to low. Why not ask for $5.00 from everyone?
2) Sell more advertising and have the advertisers pay for cost of the site. This is what many sites are doing. With the amount of visitors you are attracting you should be able to sell advertising - (just stay away from pop-up ads).
3) Become a fantasy league site. Fish fans would gladly run our leagues here if you had a good fantasy site.

There are 3 viable solutions. I think if you ask for $84.00 most people will come up with a legitimate reason why that is more than they can spend.

Fresh
06-21-2004, 10:56 AM
This statement kills me....

what you're saying is YOUR personal things mean more. You'd rather have a closet full of AFO's, and post over 5000 times on this site the one year you've been here, and let the person responsible for allowing you to be here so much to sell HIS personal stuff, in order for you to:
A: Keep YOUR stuff, and get more
B: Continue to post on the site he sold HIS stuff to save, and
C: act as though he's asking for your last freekin dime, and forcing you to pay.



I don't get your point. Me saying that MY personal wants are more important to ME than a message board that's not mine kills you? :huh:

Personally, I feel bad for AJ that he has to sell all his stuff, and this thread has nothing to do with how good of a site FH is(it is my favorite site)...but I'm not coughing up $84 a year, even if I can afford it now. Who knows what happens to my money when I go to college in August? I could cough over the money now and end up azzed out later on, even though not likely.

Now would I prefer to go get that nice Isiah Thomas college throwback for about $70 or to cough over even more money on a message board(although my favorite one)? Pretend that you're not on the staff before answering that question from your view...

Finsflurry
06-21-2004, 10:56 AM
God damn I really can't believe some of you guys, you act like they're trying to make you feel guilty in order to fork over a little dough and that this site is just another site. Let me tell you something, I 've been to nearly all the Dolphins message boards and none are run like this. Go to the ESPN message boards and see if you get half the quality of stuff you get on here, the difference on here is the admins care about this site and devote countless hours of their day to make sure you don't have to sort through spam and trolling, and you know what after they're done you read it for free, you can post for free, have pics, PM's, pretty much the whole works for free. If your not going to contribute then don't no one is asking you to, like Muck said for them to even be asking you for money means they are pretty much out of options. You guys are taking the site for granted, not everyone but all you with your little "I won't pay for a message board" posts just really got me ticked. This is not just a message board, this is the most knowledgeable and intelligent community of Dolphins fans in the world and it's a crying shame you don't realize it...

LIQUID24
06-21-2004, 11:11 AM
Not to nitpick here, but aren't there way more than 7 Premium Members? I know I've seen more than 7 ppl with the "premium member" tag (that's not including the mods).

Anyway, while I probably won't become a premium member anytime soon, I WILL donate some money. I'll probably give like $10 bucks or something, twice a year. I'll chip in when I can.

I do appreciate this site. It's hard to get intelligent Dolphin talk anywhere alse.

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 11:17 AM
I don't get your point. Me saying that MY personal wants are more important to ME than a message board that's not mine kills you? :huh:




Point is... you've posted over 5000 times here in just over a year.
Seems as though this place really is pretty important to you. Think of it this way, how much would you miss it if it were gone?

Not saying it will be if you don't give $84/year... and no, the "majority" can't/won't pay it. However... we're not looking for the "majority" to do so. 24 members out of 4000 is hardly a majority.
Advertising. We'd love to get more for advertising. That's been a goal all along. We do manage a few $'s here and there thru ads, but the fact of the matter is, that is easier said than done. Most major advertisers are reluctant to place ads on message boards. If you have any ideas on how we can gain more advertising revenue... PLEASE let us know.

As far as shelling out money for a jersey, or the site. Well... basketball would be a bad example to use with me (staff or not) since I could care less about the sport..... however, would I rather spend $70 on a signed Larry Csonka jersey, or $84/ year for this site.... well... IF a signed Larry Csonka jersey became available at that price, I'd probably snatch that up, and at least delay the premium membership cost... but I'd also send in the difference ($14) just to contribute to a site that I spend a LOT of time enjoying at (mostly) someone else's expense....

TerryTate
06-21-2004, 11:18 AM
I'm one of the mods that isn't a premium member and I try to compensate by giving as much time as I can back to the site and trying to put forth an effort for a radio show, etc. (which will be airing weekly in the fall), so I'll keep it brief.

Find me an unofficial football team message board that is as big as this, bet you cant, I have yet to find one site solely dedicated to a team with this many people. Bandwith costs money, and with 500 registered members checking in, AND members of the media AND "guests" (could even be players!), it's gonna cost money. I may not be good at math, but how AJ keeps this site up, I cant figure out how he does it, seems mathematically impossible.

CO84...what size shoe are you? if you have some real good basketball shoes that you get tired of, hook me up, I cant afford my own new shoes right now, and I need casual shoes and high-tops, im a size 13. I've worn the same casual shoes for about 4 years and they are on their last breath.

Thanks

Terry Tate

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 11:21 AM
Not to nitpick here, but aren't there way more than 7 Premium Members? I know I've seen more than 7 ppl with the "premium member" tag (that's not including the mods).

Anyway, while I'll probably not become a premium member anytime soon, I WILL donate some money. I'll probably give like $10 bucks or something, twice a year. I'll chip in when I can.

I do appreciate this site. It's hard to get intelligent Dolphin talk anywhere alse.


There were more than 7.... those that did not re-up their membership from last year, were able to keep the "award" sign... those that did re-up, got the fancy "2X" sign....

As for you donating whatever you can.... THANK YOU!!!!!

That's all we're asking for those that don't want to or can't become premium members....

FIN-IN-RI
06-21-2004, 11:22 AM
this site costs a lot of money to run and i know first hand about the bandwidth costs alone.

By next month hopefully ill cough over the 84 bucks..

btw i know there are more than 7 premium members..there has to be.

edit

oh so the 2x people are the only currnet premium ppl...i get it.

New England Fin
06-21-2004, 11:25 AM
Are these not legitimate options?

1) Charge everyone who uses the site a modest membership fee. I think people will pay to join this board. $.99 seems to low. Why not ask for $5.00 from everyone?
2) Sell more advertising and have the advertisers pay for cost of the site. This is what many sites are doing. With the amount of visitors you are attracting you should be able to sell advertising - (just stay away from pop-up ads).
3) Become a fantasy league site. Fish fans would gladly run our leagues here if you had a good fantasy site.

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 11:26 AM
this site costs a lot of money to run and i know first hand about the bandwidth costs alone.

By next month hopefully ill cough over the 84 bucks..

btw i know there are more than 7 premium members..there has to be.

edit

oh so the 2x people are the only currnet premium ppl...i get it.

FANTASTIC!!!! THANKS!!!

Technically... the 2X people are "second year" premies.... meaning the've been premies for two years....

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 11:29 AM
Are these not legitimate options?

1) Charge everyone who uses the site a modest membership fee. I think people will pay to join this board. $.99 seems to low. Why not ask for $5.00 from everyone?
2) Sell more advertising and have the advertisers pay for cost of the site. This is what many sites are doing. With the amount of visitors you are attracting you should be able to sell advertising - (just stay away from pop-up ads).
3) Become a fantasy league site. Fish fans would gladly run our leagues here if you had a good fantasy site.


Good ideas...

1: We don't want to make it a "mandatory" pay site... no matter how low the fee may be....

2: See my above post:

We'd love to get more for advertising. That's been a goal all along. We do manage a few $'s here and there thru ads, but the fact of the matter is, that is easier said than done. Most major advertisers are reluctant to place ads on message boards. If you have any ideas on how we can gain more advertising revenue... PLEASE let us know.


3: Fantasy league for premium members is already in the works ;)

TerryTate
06-21-2004, 11:34 AM
Are these not legitimate options?

1) Charge everyone who uses the site a modest membership fee. I think people will pay to join this board. $.99 seems to low. Why not ask for $5.00 from everyone?
2) Sell more advertising and have the advertisers pay for cost of the site. This is what many sites are doing. With the amount of visitors you are attracting you should be able to sell advertising - (just stay away from pop-up ads).
3) Become a fantasy league site. Fish fans would gladly run our leagues here if you had a good fantasy site.

#1 doesnt seem like an option because people would simply stop joining up at the rate that they are. If i was required t odonate even a dollar to a forum, I wouldnt do it, not because I cant afford that, but because a) I dont have paypal and b) dont have a credit card...and if i did I wouldnt put forth the effort to send an online transaction, thats just how lazy I can get and thats how lazy people can be. It would be a "whatever" attitude.

#2 seems like a last resort in my opinion. It doesnt seem right that something this good and free doesnt have more advertising. What makes this site so unique is that there arent ads everywhere that tarnish the cleanliness of the site, it's appearance right now is outstanding. Adding an ad would be like adding a scar. AJ is totally against having advertising all over the page, surely we have ads for dol-fan related material (tickets, jerseys) and a couple misc. ads here or there, but we could have more, but the site wouldnt look as great. However at the rate the site is going it could become more of an option.

#3 is the best option that you listed NewEngland Fin. And it's something that we could consider.

thanks for your ideas and :welcome: to the forum.

muscle979
06-21-2004, 11:47 AM

muscle979
06-21-2004, 11:51 AM

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 11:53 AM
muscle979 ... if you're having trouble sending a contribution... let us know, we can help! :biggrin:

muscle979
06-21-2004, 11:55 AM

New England Fin
06-21-2004, 11:55 AM
We are really not talking about a lot of money here. The original post said that 24 members paying the $84.00 would keep the site on the Internet. That's only $2016.00 per year. So even a few ads should cover the cost. It would not have to clutter the site.
Here are some advertising ideas:
1. Local Miami companies that have an interest in Dolphins football.
2. Businesses around or near the stadium. (restaurants, hotels, tc.)
3. Promote Fin Heaven products - hats, shirts, etc. Are there any of these available in the Fan Store?

Also, does the site make any money from the Fan Store? If not, it definitely should.

PhinBeck
06-21-2004, 12:01 PM
At some point I will when can afford it donate to this site, it is well worth it. Unfortunately right now cannot afford it, I have a family and times are tough in Ohio, no raise in 3 years, home repairs have killed me this year as I have an old house. My son is involved in activities that require money. Not complaining, just stating that it isnt easy all the time. I appreciate everything AJ and all involved have done, this is a great site and will do what I can as soon as I can.

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 12:03 PM
, this is a great site and will do what I can as soon as I can.


That's all we ask.... :D

Samphin
06-21-2004, 12:04 PM
I would love too, but for the same reaosns as elsewhere, I simply cannot afford it. I am 21 years old and just bought a house in the San Francisco Bay Area. Do any of you know how much housing is in California? You Floridians have it easy! My fellow Cali fin fans can attest, you buy out here, sya goodbye to ALL of your money for a few years. Heck, I haven't even moved in yet and I have oodles and oodles of cash already shelled out into it.

In fact, as much as I hate to say it, in a month, I may have to give up finheaven all together. Monthly internet charges will most likely be sacrficed so that I have that extra cash to eat. Sorry guys, I just can't do it right now.

Also, Gram, that message was pretty offensive. Muck is riding us for being defensive but we had no other options considering the knife you left swinging over our heads.

xiidaen
06-21-2004, 12:06 PM
No one wants to see a 'mandatory membership' fee. We're asking those that can afford a contribution and find this site valuable and worthwhile to please do so -- whatever that contribution might be.

I'd imagine most serious fans would HATE to have to sell their collection of fin-collectables... and I hate to see AJ in that position, after he's already put so much time, effort and money into this site. So, if you can, help him out. That's all. It's not required. We won't hunt people down on ban them. If you can't afford it, that's fine. If you can down the road, keep Finheaven in mind.

Thanks!




PS - why didn't I get a 2x banner? :(

Fresh
06-21-2004, 12:15 PM
Point is... you've posted over 5000 times here in just over a year.
Seems as though this place really is pretty important to you. Think of it this way, how much would you miss it if it were gone?

Not saying it will be if you don't give $84/year... and no, the "majority" can't/won't pay it. However... we're not looking for the "majority" to do so. 24 members out of 4000 is hardly a majority.
Advertising. We'd love to get more for advertising. That's been a goal all along. We do manage a few $'s here and there thru ads, but the fact of the matter is, that is easier said than done. Most major advertisers are reluctant to place ads on message boards. If you have any ideas on how we can gain more advertising revenue... PLEASE let us know.

As far as shelling out money for a jersey, or the site. Well... basketball would be a bad example to use with me (staff or not) since I could care less about the sport..... however, would I rather spend $70 on a signed Larry Csonka jersey, or $84/ year for this site.... well... IF a signed Larry Csonka jersey became available at that price, I'd probably snatch that up, and at least delay the premium membership cost... but I'd also send in the difference ($14) just to contribute to a site that I spend a LOT of time enjoying at (mostly) someone else's expense....

If the site was going down, sure I'd donate as much as I can, but it's not as far as I'm concerned.

I will try and get some money donated to the site sometime this summer...personally, I was just commenting on the $84/per year tag.

I just don't like the "at someone else's expense" comment.

Fresh
06-21-2004, 12:18 PM
CO84...what size shoe are you? if you have some real good basketball shoes that you get tired of, hook me up, I cant afford my own new shoes right now, and I need casual shoes and high-tops, im a size 13. I've worn the same casual shoes for about 4 years and they are on their last breath.

Thanks

Terry Tate

LOL...I'm under that man, but I don't do the high-tops thing...I stick with the lows. ;)

TerryTate
06-21-2004, 12:19 PM
If the site was going down, sure I'd donate as much as I can, but it's not as far as I'm concerned.

I will try and get some money donated to the site sometime this summer...personally, I was just commenting on the $84/per year tag.

I just don't like the "at someone else's expense" comment.

But the fact of the matter is, tons of people (literally, tons 2000= 1 ton ;) ) are enjoying the site at the expense of seven people.

Fresh
06-21-2004, 12:28 PM
I see what you're saying, but Wharf made it sound as if we asked if we could come post here for free. It's the internet man, everything and site is free. Take a look at ESPN Insider for example. Go to google and type in, "ESPN Insider Password". Same thing goes for everything else you have to pay for online...it's all free, and with this being a message board you kind've expect it all to be free.

That post sounded a lot like..."if you have over 5000 posts and post a lot, and you're enjoying the site off of someone else's expenses, then you should pay $84 a year" (I know that's not entirely what he meant)

But like I said, if the site was shutting down I'd definately help as much as I can.

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 12:40 PM
If the site was going down, sure I'd donate as much as I can, but it's not as far as I'm concerned.

That's just it... if everyone thought that way... it would go down...


I will try and get some money donated to the site sometime this summer...personally, I was just commenting on the $84/per year tag.

Excellent!! That's all we ask. Seriously... we don't look down on, or disfavor those that can't/won't/don't contribute in any way shape or form... the point of all this is to reward those who do as best we can.


I just don't like the "at someone else's expense" comment.

Sorry... but why does that bother you? it has been at someone else's expense..hasn't it?

Fresh
06-21-2004, 12:42 PM
Sorry... but why does that bother you? it has been at someone else's expense..hasn't it?

When you put it like that, basically it sounds like you're saying if we're not gonna help(if we have the money), then why bother visit the site?

Sorry, that's just what it sounds like.

But again, like I said...I will donate some money here and there.

dolphan39
06-21-2004, 01:21 PM
Gram was just frustrated that AJ had to sell his stuff - so take what he says from that standpoint and not a personal attack (since the mods w/not allow that ;) )

Personally, I will reiterate what Muck said in that you should pay the $84 if you can afford it and you are on these boards enough to feel like it is something you would miss if they were gone (i.e. like me). If $84 is too much for you, you pretty decent benefit for free, so just donate what you afford, when you can afford it via paypal.

Everyone hates to have to ask for the money, so make it easy please.

P.S. there are more than 7 premium members, there are just 7 that have joined during this "campaign".

canadainfin-fan
06-21-2004, 01:28 PM
84$ I pay that much just to talk to my lawyer for 15 minutes :cry: :eek: :shakeno:

Prime Time
06-21-2004, 01:35 PM
Unfortunately, I don't have a job. I was going to get one If I stopped playing soccer (which I didn't because enough players showed up) which costs me $410.00 a season. If I had a job, I would pay probably $20 a month every couple of months or so. Unfortunately, I don't so therefore I don't make much money to donate. I seriously doubt my parents would give me cash to pay for a site, they wouldn't understand. If I find a way of gettting a couple of spare dollars, I will send it your way, and that is a promise. :up:

Muck
06-21-2004, 01:36 PM
I just want to reiterate.......if you have chosen to donate, whether it's $84 or $8....THANK YOU!! If you're not able to, that's cool too. We totally understand. All we ask is that you continue to post great content and and continue to make this site kickass. :) We don't expect everyone to be able to help out. ESPECIALLY when you're 21 and just bought a house.....IN SAN FRANCISCO. Good lord, that must be expensive. :eek:

Justasportsfan
06-21-2004, 01:36 PM
84$ I pay that much just to talk to my lawyer for 15 minutes :cry: :eek: :shakeno:$84 US would be $1000 Canadian. Man, your lawyers sure make a lot ,eh? :D

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 01:47 PM
When you put it like that, basically it sounds like you're saying if we're not gonna help(if we have the money), then why bother visit the site?

Sorry, that's just what it sounds like.

But again, like I said...I will donate some money here and there.

That's not how I meant it... I think most people realize my point. I apologize if it came across as indignant... and I realize it was rather blunt, however, with donations down, and registrations up, blunt and to the point does not seem out of line to me.
My point was... that a few have been providing this forum, and all it has to offer, for the many. It's been because of the time, money, devotion, dedication, and effort of fewer than 1% of the members, that over 4000 registered members and countless guests can enjoy what began as a young teen's hobby, and evolved into what it is now. An outstanding community of fans, with more to offer than most pay sites... with no monetary requirement.
Are we asking for help? Yes, because we have to, not because we want to profit from it, but because we need help to keep it going. Do we give nothing in return? No... Premium members enjoy more "perks", and are privy to inside info about the site, and part of decisions relating to FinHeaven.
Do we want those who don't contribute to feel guilty? Absolutely not. This site is for EVERYONE, not just those who contibute... but if you read through AJ's thread stuck at the top of this forum, and see some of the initial responses to his original post about Premium Membership... you may understand the frustration felt by Gram, myself, Muck, TT, AJ, P4E and all of us who contribute time, money, and effort... simply for the sake of the site that everyone enjoys.

I did not initially mean to single you out... just that your comment was one of many that struck a nerve. Everyone who has contributed has made a sacrafice of some sort, in order to do so.... that type of sentiment seemed to undermine that.....

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 01:55 PM
Unfortunately, I don't have a job. I was going to get one If I stopped playing soccer (which I didn't because enough players showed up) which costs me $410.00 a season. If I had a job, I would pay probably $20 a month every couple of months or so. Unfortunately, I don't so therefore I don't make much money to donate. I seriously doubt my parents would give me cash to pay for a site, they wouldn't understand. If I find a way of gettting a couple of spare dollars, I will send it your way, and that is a promise. :up:

PT... Good Lord, a young teen with no income... how could you possibly contribute? You should be saving your pennies... members such as yourself are not who we are targeting with this campaign... nor the likes of Samphin, etc... if you can't, you can't! We want NOBODY to take food off their table for this site. (we will, however, take any scraps that fall to the floor! ;) )
I've seen you grow in maturity in leaps and bounds on this site... that we may have had a hand in that, is payment enough! ;)

canadainfin-fan
06-21-2004, 02:01 PM
$84 US would be $1000 Canadian. Man, your lawyers sure make a lot ,eh? :D
Ha Ha very funny my lawyer is a jerk he is a cowboy fan and for me I think the rates went UP after thanksgiving :yell:

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 02:41 PM
Being a former admin of this site, I have watched it grow from a small time fan site, to the major fan base force that it is.

However, of the over 4000 members, do you know how many of you have ponied up the dough to become a premium member?

7

Want to know the sick part? at least 4 of those are the admins of this site, and one is a freaking Bills fan. A BILLS FAN!!

I think that is the saddest thing I have ever heard. It takes 24 premium members at $84 a year to keep this website on the internet.

I told AJ yesterday that he should just charge every single one of you. Hell at .99 cents per member, per year, he would be flowing in cash!

But of course he said no. So he is going to auction off some of his Dolphins gear to help pay the expenses. Nice huh?

17 more to go, and the Dolphins faithful are proving yet again to need a swift kick in the butt to get it rolling

I am ashamed of those of you who can honestly afford it, because I know of the over 4000 at least 17 of you CAN!

If this post sounds angry, well it is. You use this place every single day, so have some respect, and pony up.

end rant

Gram
Let me make my stance on this clear:

FinHeaven is a great site, and I've thought about becoming a premium member many times because I realize that this site doesn't run on peanuts, but I'm not willing to make that investment at this time.

While we all understand your point, my guess is (and I could be wrong) you won't get many takers, considering the rude way in which you went about it. Who are you to tell us what to do with our money? We have a lack of premium members, and your response is....a rant? :rolleyes: Good luck with that approach in business or with life in general.

This kind of stuff needs to be left to AJ, Muck, TerryTate, and the rest of the staff. They market this site the right way, and communicate with members respectfully.

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 02:47 PM
2 kids, mortgage, car insurance, 2 freakin dogs, one mother-in-law and direct - tv(sunday ticket), my wife would have my soul if i kicked in cash like that - sorry boys.
P.S. - dolfan87 , you ever hear the saying - you will catch more flies with honey than vinegar, ...just something to think about.
Exactly. Getting mad and ranting is sure as hell not going to influence us to sign up.

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 02:58 PM
Wow,

First of all yes I have heard that you catch more flies with honey, however that wasn't working. There is a real nice honey post stuck up at the top of this page. Since I am no longer a member of the administration, I don't HAVE to be nice about this at all. I am just one of you guys now.

Second of all, I am talking to those members of this board WHO CAN AFFORD THE $84.

If you can't afford it, then I am not talking to you.

If you want to donate a $1, $5, $10, $25, whatever...then do it soon, cause what really made me upset was hearing that AJ had to put his stuff on e bay. That is crappy, and you all know it.

I have a wife, 4 year old, dog, mortgage, direct T.V., a car to rebuild, and this site is still important enough to me to pay the $84.

Whoever made the "should of had prior planning" B.S. statement, I have this to say; what would you of done?

As this site grew, and grew, and grew, it got to the point where AJ and I were freaking out trying to figure out how to pay for this place. We switched to a cheaper server, and the site promptly crashed every couple days. We tried getting advertisers to step up, with very limited success.

There were two options, shut this place down (which we ALMOST did) or ask for help from the people who use this place everyday.

So don't give me this "prior planning" crap.

Look if you all don't care if Fin Heaven is around, then don't pay. Almost everyone who has replied to this thread seems to rank this place just above the toilet paper they wipe with.

However, if Fin Heaven means anything at all to you, if you would miss this place when it gone, then figure out how much it would mean to you to keep it around, and send it A.J.'s way.

Gram
No one cares about what you have to say if you act like an arrogant jackass about it. We get the point, but you're demanding and not asking, and you have no right to tell us what to do with our money.

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 03:07 PM
Let me make my stance on this clear:

FinHeaven is a great site, and I've thought about becoming a premium member many times because I realize that this site doesn't run on peanuts, but I'm not willing to make that investment at this time.

While we all understand your point, my guess is (and I could be wrong) you won't get many takers, considering the rude way in which you went about it. Who are you to tell us what to do with our money? We have a lack of premium members, and your response is....a rant? :rolleyes: Good luck with that approach in business or with life in general.

This kind of stuff needs to be left to AJ, Muck, TerryTate, and the rest of the staff. They market this site the right way, and communicate with members respectfully.

We see your point, and understand completely...
You have to understand that Gram was frustrated over what he saw as an unnecessary sacrifice on AJ's part to scrape up money to keep this thing going. Feeling the need to sell off his beloved Dolphins memorabilia on Ebay is something not many of us would do to maintain a website. Sure, I'd sell every last Dolphins item I had, if it came down to that in order to feed my children... but for a website? :hmmm: honestly... how many of us would do that? AJ has been driven to make this site the best, and he's done a damn good job of it, and sacrificed more than most of you know... it's cost him loads of time, money, sweat, and sleep ... for profit? no... for Dol-Fans.
True, you get more flies with honey... but when you put out some honey, and the flies complain because it's not sweet enough... you get frustrated and pick up a fly swatter... OK...bad analogy, we're not ever going to swat anyone..... but you see my point...

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 03:07 PM
No one cares about what you have to say if you act like an arrogant jackass about it. We get the point, but you're demanding and not asking, and you have no right to tell us what to do with our money.


OK... I think you made your point with the first post...


now who's ranting? :confused:

Justasportsfan
06-21-2004, 03:17 PM
arrogant jackass about it. but you're demanding .
How dare you call him demanding :D





You may not also care about this but I don't think Dolfan87 was being a jacka$$ about it.

Ohio Fanatic
06-21-2004, 03:23 PM
Being a former admin of this site, I have watched it grow from a small time fan site, to the major fan base force that it is.

However, of the over 4000 members, do you know how many of you have ponied up the dough to become a premium member?

7

Want to know the sick part? at least 4 of those are the admins of this site, and one is a freaking Bills fan. A BILLS FAN!!

I think that is the saddest thing I have ever heard. It takes 24 premium members at $84 a year to keep this website on the internet.

I told AJ yesterday that he should just charge every single one of you. Hell at .99 cents per member, per year, he would be flowing in cash!

But of course he said no. So he is going to auction off some of his Dolphins gear to help pay the expenses. Nice huh?

17 more to go, and the Dolphins faithful are proving yet again to need a swift kick in the butt to get it rolling

I am ashamed of those of you who can honestly afford it, because I know of the over 4000 at least 17 of you CAN!

If this post sounds angry, well it is. You use this place every single day, so have some respect, and pony up.

end rant

Gram

Well, obviously your rant had the worst kind of effect. Any leader will tell you that rants don't work to effectively motivate people unless their livelihood is on the line. A sympathetic plea may have been more effective. I can relate to many of the posts about too many bills to pay for a free website. I feel like that guy on the TV commercial with new house, new car and riding the lawn tractor who says "somebody help me". To say I'm deep in debt would be a huge understatement. But even though I just found this website, I'm willing to donate 10 bucks. If some people just donated 5 bucks each via paypal, maybe we can keep the website going. I know this website is the first one I check, instead of Miami Herald like I used to.

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 03:24 PM
This statement kills me....

what you're saying is YOUR personal things mean more. You'd rather have a closet full of AFO's, and post over 5000 times on this site the one year you've been here, and let the person responsible for allowing you to be here so much to sell HIS personal stuff, in order for you to:
A: Keep YOUR stuff, and get more
B: Continue to post on the site he sold HIS stuff to save, and
C: act as though he's asking for your last freekin dime, and forcing you to pay.

Nobody said you HAVE to pay... nobody said you'll be banned if you don't...

This site grew from a total of FOUR members to over FOUR THOUSAND in just a few short years. I fail to see how that could possibly be the result of poor planning. We're talking about a small staff of volunteers running this site. AJ and Gram (Dolphan87) started this site on their own. AJ a 14 yr old kid in Tampa, and Gram living out in Arizona. Now the staff consists of that same kid in Tampa (a few years older), Muck, also in Tampa, Myself in NJ, and people like TerryTate, P4E, Dolphan39, and others spread out across the country, who donate time, effort an money to this place so Everyone can enjoy it....all 4000 of you. It's not like we have a fiscal budget, or shareholders to "plan" the financial future of the site.

I've said it in the other thread...if you think it's a cinch to run a site like this, keep it stable, manage 4000+ (and growing daily) members, and offer the features that this site has, all out of your own pockets...then I invite you to contact a hosting company, and get the ball rolling. Good Luck. :shakeno:
CO wants to spend money on himself and/or bills...so do I. Is there anything wrong with that?

Did CO ask you how much it would cost to run a website? Is he interested in running a website?

Is that what his post was about?



That's the kind of arrogance and disrespect I'm talking about.

Apparently you feel the need to talk down to the rest of the members here and try to make them feel bad for not donating money. That's beyond absurd. I've never heard of any non profit organization asking for money like this. No one is forcing us, but you and dolfan87 want to make it seem like we're all jerks for not contributing. I realize that it takes a lot to run this site, but you have no right to talk down to any member just because he or she chooses to do something else with his or her money.

I'll give it to you straight. Ultimately, it's AJ's responsibility to make sure the site stays afloat. It's his site. He created it...he's responsible for it's growth and the costs that come along with it. If it flops, then it's simply a failed business venture; however, let me clear that up by saying that I realize this site is more of a public service than a for profit business.

The points you made about how hard it is to run the site are understandable, but just because the costs are much higher doesn't mean we're going to "pony up."

Funny how Muck always handles situations (no matter how severe) with class, and you choose a different route. Just something to ponder...

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 03:25 PM
Hate to say it, but I'd have to agree with this post. I'd love to help out this site, but I couldn't afford it. There are more important things in life then a Miami Dolphins forum.

Don't get me wrong here, I love the Phins just as much as the next fan. I enjoy this site, and the information I get, and the fun, in depth conversation from fellow fans around the world. But as much as I enjoy this site, and would love to help out, that price is a little too steep.

I would suggest lowering it, to maybe say $25 dollars a year? I mean come on, you said yourself you only have 7 Premium members. If you significantly lowered the price to support this site, I'm sure you would get many more fans willing to donate.

I'm sure you would get at least 50 fans of 4000, willing to give up 25 dollars annually to help the site. And probably even more than that. So lets do the math.

7premium members x $84.00 = $588.00
50 premium members x $25.00 = $1250.00

That's more than doubling what you are receiving now. It makes sense guys.


Just some food for thought. I'd love to help out, but I really can't afford it at the moment.

We'd like to try and keep Premium Membership somewhat exclusive...that's why the 24-25 member limit was imposed. However, if we saw that 50 people would seriously commit to $25/year... we would certainly consider something along those lines... no guarantees... it would ultimately be up to the Staff and existing Premies... but we'd give it a fair chance.

Justasportsfan
06-21-2004, 03:29 PM
CO wants to spend money on himself and/or bills...so do I. Is there anything wrong with that?

Did CO ask you how much it would cost to run a website? Is he interested in running a website?

Is that what his post was about?



That's the kind of arrogance and disrespect I'm talking about.

Apparently you feel the need to talk down to the rest of the members here and try to make them feel bad for not donating money. That's beyond absurd. I've never heard of any non profit organization asking for money like this. No one is forcing us, but you and dolfan87 want to make it seem like we're all jerks for not contributing. I realize that it takes a lot to run this site, but you have no right to talk down to any member just because he or she chooses to do something else with his or her money.

I'll give it to you straight. Ultimately, it's AJ's responsibility to make sure the site stays afloat. It's his site. He created it...he's responsible for it's growth and the costs that come along with it. If it flops, then it's simply a failed business venture; however, let me clear that up by saying that I realize this site is more of a public service than a for profit business.

The points you made about how hard it is to run the site are understandable, but just because the costs are much higher doesn't mean we're going to "pony up."

Funny how Muck always handles situations (no matter how severe) with class, and you choose a different route. Just something to ponder...

I miss the Sunrise Flea market :cry:

TheBostonBomber
06-21-2004, 03:31 PM
In my opinion, this site should have no problem obtaining the funds to break-even through online advertising. He'll you could even make some money if u go about it the right way. Grant it, it will take alot of work to get the right match between the advertisers wants and what you can offer with this site but in time you will be able achieve your goal of breaking even. I realize that you guys have pursued this already but I would try harder, there are advertisers that would love this site its just a matter of cold calling and giving them a fare rate. There should be no reason why this can not be done. I have personal knowledge of sites that get less hits then this and are able to make pretty good profits because the developers agressivley hunted for the advertisers. They are there u just have to find them and present ur case in a profeesional manner.

FinHeavenAJ
06-21-2004, 03:32 PM
Hey everyone,

I'm going to try and make this quick, as I have just about 6 minutes before my lunch break is over.

In any case, I just want to say thank you to all those that have donated... any amount! Really, any amount helps out. In addition, don't think that if you don't donate that you're going to be banned or something... as that's totally not the case. We just want to point out that the site isn't making a profit, none at all. Heck, George just put about $200 into the site last week. I constantly put money into the site. However, there comes a time... like so many of you here, that you can't afford to continually put money into the site. While I still will whenever I get the chance, I need help... the site needs help. I constantly work on ways to bring the site more income... like, for example, if you scroll down at the bottom of this page you'll see a search form, if you use that search and happen to click on banners... then you're helping the site out. However, that search form doesn't change the site like huge ads would.

Let me just get straight to it, my last option is to put ads all over the message boards... I simply wouldn't like it. I personally hate ads on message boards, so I don't want to do it for the site's sake. I want to try and keep it as ad free as possible, unless, like the Google search, it doesn't interupt the site... if you know what I mean.

In addition, I don't want to make the boards a "must donate" in order to use them. The last thing I want to be like is the Dolphins Digest, where to even use the site you need to pay some money. You can ask any staff/premium member here, and they'll all tell you that I knock down many ideas that step towards this. I simply don't want it.

I want to see this site grow leaps and bounds, I have so many plans for the site.

Just think of this, and I have to head out. We're planning on having many contests throughout the season, including the football pool and fantasy football. Chances are... you'll be participating. If you win, and you most likely will win something... you'll be getting at least some of your money back. In addition, keep in mind that they have contests just for them... and there's only a few of them. So, you chances go UP when you're a Premium Member.

Anyway, like I said... I have to go. I'll reply back later tonight. But, once again... thank you, thank you, thank you! I can't say enough.

PS: I added a "Donate!" link at the top of the site, so you can easily find it.

Again, thank you!

Sincerely,
Andrew Tatum

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 03:34 PM
I see what you're saying, but Wharf made it sound as if we asked if we could come post here for free. It's the internet man, everything and site is free. Take a look at ESPN Insider for example. Go to google and type in, "ESPN Insider Password". Same thing goes for everything else you have to pay for online...it's all free, and with this being a message board you kind've expect it all to be free.

That post sounded a lot like..."if you have over 5000 posts and post a lot, and you're enjoying the site off of someone else's expenses, then you should pay $84 a year" (I know that's not entirely what he meant)

But like I said, if the site was shutting down I'd definately help as much as I can.
I agree. My point exactly. We all understand that it takes $$$ to keep the site running, but the tone of some of the posts on this thread make it seem like we should be ashamed of ourselves or something.

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 03:34 PM
CO wants to spend money on himself and/or bills...so do I. Is there anything wrong with that?

Did CO ask you how much it would cost to run a website? Is he interested in running a website?

Is that what his post was about?



That's the kind of arrogance and disrespect I'm talking about.

Apparently you feel the need to talk down to the rest of the members here and try to make them feel bad for not donating money. That's beyond absurd. I've never heard of any non profit organization asking for money like this. No one is forcing us, but you and dolfan87 want to make it seem like we're all jerks for not contributing. I realize that it takes a lot to run this site, but you have no right to talk down to any member just because he or she chooses to do something else with his or her money.

I'll give it to you straight. Ultimately, it's AJ's responsibility to make sure the site stays afloat. It's his site. He created it...he's responsible for it's growth and the costs that come along with it. If it flops, then it's simply a failed business venture; however, let me clear that up by saying that I realize this site is more of a public service than a for profit business.

The points you made about how hard it is to run the site are understandable, but just because the costs are much higher doesn't mean we're going to "pony up."

Funny how Muck always handles situations (no matter how severe) with class, and you choose a different route. Just something to ponder...

Again I ask...

Now who's ranting?

as for this being a "business venture" .... I beg to differ. This never has been, nor ever will be something done for profit, as the term "business venture" would imply. Public service? Even PBS has membership drives, and those that don't wish to contribute... simply don't contribute. You don't see them calling the station saying "What? you want how much for that beach tote with your logo? Are you crazy? That's too much, you have some nerve demanding that much money from me" or do they?

BTW - Calling people arrogant, jacka$$es, disrespectful, and implying one has no class, seems to give the same impression of yourself, that you wish to project on us.

CO84 and I had this discussion already, he and I have had such discussions before, and have always come to an understanding. I'm sure he's of the same mind I am... we're not angry with each other, just debating. Calling me (or anyone else) out for having that discussion is a little presumptuous on your part, don't you think?

Justasportsfan
06-21-2004, 03:46 PM
but the tone of some of the posts on this thread make it seem like we should be ashamed of ourselves or something. I agree, as if being a finfan is not shame enough. :D :jk:

Seriously, don't be too sensitive. Relax you're both on the same team.

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 03:47 PM
We see your point, and understand completely...
You have to understand that Gram was frustrated over what he saw as an unnecessary sacrifice on AJ's part to scrape up money to keep this thing going. Feeling the need to sell off his beloved Dolphins memorabilia on Ebay is something not many of us would do to maintain a website. Sure, I'd sell every last Dolphins item I had, if it came down to that in order to feed my children... but for a website? :hmmm: honestly... how many of us would do that? AJ has been driven to make this site the best, and he's done a damn good job of it, and sacrificed more than most of you know... it's cost him loads of time, money, sweat, and sleep ... for profit? no... for Dol-Fans.
True, you get more flies with honey... but when you put out some honey, and the flies complain because it's not sweet enough... you get frustrated and pick up a fly swatter... OK...bad analogy, we're not ever going to swat anyone..... but you see my point...
Fly swatter? Good one. ;)

Seriously though, I truly appreciate everything the staff does here to keep FinHeaven going, and I realize that making threads like this on o regular basis is necessary, because people (like me) will take the site for granted and forget that it takes a lot of money to run the site. It's marketing, and it has to be done. I'll donate when I can...I just don't appreciate the way you and dolfan87 went about it.

I understand why 87 is upset. AJ having to sell his stuff on Ebay is unfortunate, but that doesn't give him the right to lash out at others, irregardless of what the circumstances are.

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 04:03 PM
Again I ask...

Now who's ranting?

as for this being a "business venture" .... I beg to differ. This never has been, nor ever will be something done for profit, as the term "business venture" would imply. Public service? Even PBS has membership drives, and those that don't wish to contribute... simply don't contribute. You don't see them calling the station saying "What? you want how much for that beach tote with your logo? Are you crazy? That's too much, you have some nerve demanding that much money from me" or do they?

BTW - Calling people arrogant, jacka$$es, disrespectful, and implying one has no class, seems to give the same impression of yourself, that you wish to project on us.

CO84 and I had this discussion already, he and I have had such discussions before, and have always come to an understanding. I'm sure he's of the same mind I am... we're not angry with each other, just debating. Calling me (or anyone else) out for having that discussion is a little presumptuous on your part, don't you think?
I said that already:


If it flops, then it's simply a failed business venture; however, let me clear that up by saying that I realize this site is more of a public service than a for profit business.


It's not an argument, just a disagreement. I'm sorry you took it the wrong way, even though I don't fault you for doing so. I believe I would have given you the same response.

Sometimes I don't realize how something sounds until I read it again. Now that I read my posts again, I realize that some of it sounds personal. I apologize for the name calling, especially since I hate when someone does the same. Pretty It's not an argument, just a disagreement. I'm sorry you took it the wrong way, even though I don't fault you for doing so. I believe I would have given you the same response.

Sometimes I don't realize how something sounds until I read it again. Now that I read my posts again, I realize that some of it sounds personal. I apologize for the name calling, especially since I hate when someone does the same. Pretty hippocritical huh?

I understand your point about PBS, but at the same time, you don't see the people on PBS saying, "You guys can't donate $20 freakin' dollars? Call any television network and ask them how much it costs to have a show on the air." No, they ask in a respectful manner.

Do you see my point now? If not, we can always agree to disagree. huh?

I understand your point about PBS, but at the same time, you don't see the people on PBS saying, "You guys can't donate $20 freakin' dollars? Call any television network and ask them how much it costs to have a show on the air." No, they ask in a respectful manner.

Do you see my point now? If not, we can always agree to disagree. :)

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 04:05 PM
I agree, as if being a finfan is not shame enough. :D :jk:

Seriously, don't be too sensitive. Relax you're both on the same team.
:hmmm:


if being a Dolfan = ashamed

then...

being a Bills fan = ?

You and your kind are in worse shape, buddy. Watch your mouthj. :tongue: :jk:

Justasportsfan
06-21-2004, 04:08 PM
:hmmm:


if being a Dolfan = ashamed

then...

being a Bills fan = ?

You and your kind are in worse shape, buddy. Watch your mouthj. :tonuge: :jk:
Muwahaha! My plan worked. I got you to stop ranting. :D

dolfan87
06-21-2004, 04:11 PM
954, you can say whatever you want, but the fact is that my ORIGINAL post was directed at those of us who can afford it

I am NOT an admin, mod, nothing. I am simply a friend of A.J.'s who has seen stuff go on behind the scenes. I have watched AJ stress out over trying to come up with money. I have seen him work three jobs, AND go to school to provide you with a place to come and talk.

I don't give a sh*t if you think I am being to harsh, because I am pissed off. Don't like it, then don't read it. Fact is I don't have to have "class" because that is part of the reason I left my position. I was sick and tired of dealing with some of you with "class" when what I really wanted to say was grow up. That's Muck's, and Wharfs job now, and they are doing wonderfully at it.

Some of you have mentioned how other message boards are free. Well if you haven't noticed ESPN is a major network, who has money coming out of their butts. The newspapper sites can afford the message boards no problem.

You cannot compare those places to here.

Look, I am not trying to make those of you who can't afford it feel guilty. It's those of you who come here, and $84 a year is what you spend on a nice dinner out once a week. If you can't afford the money, then no one, and I mean no one, is asking you for anything. But if you value this place at all, and can afford to pay,then help out.

Those of you in school, or just making ends meet, this is the last place I would want you putting money. But you guys who can afford it know who you are, so hate me if you want to, but in my OPINION(this is a message board for opinions right?) it needed to be said.

Gram

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 04:13 PM
Muwahaha! My plan worked. I got you to stop ranting. :D
:roflmao:

Between you, CW, and Clump, I'm almost starting to not hate Bills fans anymore...or not. :barf:

dolfan87
06-21-2004, 04:15 PM
I understand your point about PBS, but at the same time, you don't see the people on PBS saying, "You guys can't donate $20 freakin' dollars? Call any television network and ask them how much it costs to have a show on the air." No, they ask in a respectful manner.

Again, I am not a member of the staff, I am just a regular guy who thinks this lack of response, and AJ having to get rid of his stuff ridiculas when there are 4000+ members on this board.

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 04:16 PM
Jorden, you can say whatever you want, but the fact is that my ORIGINAL post was directed at those of us who can afford it

I am NOT an admin, mod, nothing. I am simply a friend of A.J.'s who has seen stuff go on behind the scenes. I have watched AJ stress out over trying to come up with money. I have seen him work three jobs, AND go to school to provide you with a place to come and talk.

I don't give a sh*t if you think I am being to harsh, because I am pissed off. Don't like it, then don't read it. Fact is I don't have to have "class" because that is part of the reason I left my position. I was sick and tired of dealing with some of you with "class" when what I really wanted to say was grow up. That's Muck's, and Wharfs job now, and they are doing wonderfully at it.

Some of you have mentioned how other message boards are free. Well if you haven't noticed ESPN is a major network, who has money coming out of their butts. The newspapper sites can afford the message boards no problem.

You cannot compare those places to here.

Look, I am not trying to make those of you who can't afford it feel guilty. It's those of you who come here, and $84 a year is what you spend on a nice dinner out once a week. If you can't afford the money, then no one, and I mean no one, is asking you for anything. But if you value this place at all, and can afford to pay,then help out.

Those of you in school, or just making ends meet, this is the last place I would want you putting money. But you guys who can afford it know who you are, so hate me if you want to, but in my OPINION(this is a message board for opinions right?) it needed to be said.

Gram
You don't have to have class? Thanks for clearing it up.

dolfan87
06-21-2004, 04:19 PM
You don't have to have class? Thanks for clearing it up.

No problem.

Justasportsfan
06-21-2004, 04:19 PM
Oh dangit. :eat:

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 04:21 PM
Again, I am not a member of the staff, I am just a regular guy who thinks this lack of response, and AJ having to get rid of his stuff ridiculas when there are 4000+ members on this board.
I can respect your opinion and your fire. You even sound like a good friend to have since you're backing AJ so much. I know I sound like a broken record now, but I only repeat myself because I'm often misunderstood. My issue wasn't with the subject of your post, just the way you came across saying it. No ill feelings...just a difference of opinion. I apologize for the name calling.

dolfan87
06-21-2004, 04:29 PM
I can respect your opinion and your fire. You even sound like a good friend to have since you're backing AJ so much. I know I sound like a broken record now, but I only repeat myself because I'm often misunderstood. My issue wasn't with the subject of your post, just the way you came across saying it. No ill feelings...just a difference of opinion. I apologize for the name calling.

Ok, so maybe it was harsh, and I apologize if I made any of you who can't afford it feel bad.

But, the nice thing just wasn't working.

By the way, I am going to purchase two premium memberships to give to two members who can't afford it. I am also going to give away a pair of real Dolphins Jersey pants, authentic Riddell helmet, and an autographed Marino 8x10 to the next three Premium Memberships renewed, or first timers.

It will be first come first serve on selecting the item you want, and AJ will let me know who was first, second and last. No matter what position you come in at, you are getting some great stuff here.

I am going to make a new post about this, so this is the scoop right here(buried in a six page thread). Everyone else in about 3 hours will have a new post to read.

GO!

Gram

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 04:30 PM
OK... I think we've bantered about the subtleties of perspectives long enough... the point to this whole thing is... FinHeaven needs help from the members who are able to contribute, in order to stay afloat.

Let's look at it this way... how about a "Save AJ's Stuff Drive"

Let's see if we can garner enough money for the site, so that AJ doesn't have to sell his Dolphins gear! If it means bringing in Premium Members... FANTASTIC!! If it means a few members kicking in ten bucks, or five, or two, or one... to save AJ from giving up his stuff...then let's make it happen!

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 04:32 PM
Ok, so maybe it was harsh, and I apologize if I made any of you who can't afford it feel bad.

But, the nice thing just wasn't working.

By the way, I am going to purchase two premium memberships to give to two members who can't afford it. I am also going to give away a pair of real Dolphins Jersey pants, authentic Riddell helmet, and an autographed Marino 8x10 to the next three Premium Memberships renewed, or first timers.

It will be first come first serve on selecting the item you want, and AJ will let me know who was first, second and last. No matter what position you come in at, you are getting some great stuff here.

I am going to make a new post about this, so this is the scoop right here(buried in a six page thread). Everyone else in about 3 hours will have a new post to read.

GO!

Gram]

...Perhaps a simultaneous "Save Gram's Stuff Drive" ;)

Justasportsfan
06-21-2004, 04:49 PM
Ok, so maybe it was harsh, and I apologize if I made any of you who can't afford it feel bad.


Don't apologize, Dolfan954 drives a Porshe on the week days and a hummer on the weekends to go to the strip clubs where he spends an average on 20 laps dances....... per hr.

No fork out the check Dolfan954. You can send the blank check to my address. :D

Samphin
06-21-2004, 04:56 PM
I just want to reiterate.......if you have chosen to donate, whether it's $84 or $8....THANK YOU!! If you're not able to, that's cool too. We totally understand. All we ask is that you continue to post great content and and continue to make this site kickass. :) We don't expect everyone to be able to help out. ESPECIALLY when you're 21 and just bought a house.....IN SAN FRANCISCO. Good lord, that must be expensive. :eek:


Not that you were talking about me or anything. :goof: I should also state that if I did have money, I would say screw off just the same and go out to see a movie! :lol: :jk: If I did have some omeny that I didn't know what to do with, I might perhaps throw some finheaven's way.

One suggestion though. Anyone remember Dana Carvey's show on ABC? It was only on for about 7 weeks in like 1995 or something. Anyway, each week it was brought to you by a different sponser. Something to this effect:

The TACO BELL Dana Carvey Show!

The following week:

The MOUTAIN DEW Dana Carvey Show!


I know AJ doesn't want ads, but perhaps he can do something like this. A little banner the rotates monthly or weekly or whenever. Just a small one should help offset the cost of the site while keeping it free for everyone and what not.

I must admit though, you all have inspired me. Seeing how I am in debt for pretty much the rest of my life now, I may have to drop the internet to help me you know, eat. I am now starting up a collection to help save Samphin on www.finheaven.com . I know you all love my intelligent and witty posts. I know I never bring the inside scoops...and I kind of smell funny too, but if you can see it in your hearts to send some money by way. If you are looking for some, just give me whatever you were going to give to finheaven.com. :lol: :jk:

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 05:04 PM
Don't apologize, Dolfan954 drives a Porshe on the week days and a hummer on the weekends to go to the strip clubs where he spends an average on 20 laps dances....... per hr.

No fork out the check Dolfan954. You can send the blank check to my address. :D
Your mom already bothers me too much for child support money. The free ride stops here son. Behave yourself. :evil:

SABA-TOOTH
06-21-2004, 05:12 PM
Why Not Have 3 Or 4 Levels Of Membership...?

Bronze- Min... With Limited Graphs Etc.. $25

Silver- More Graphics Etc $50

Premuim Gold... Best Graphics And Web Links ,email Address Etc...

CirclingWagons
06-21-2004, 05:19 PM
Your mom already bothers me too much for child support money. The free ride stops here son. Behave yourself. :evil:
Can't we all just get along? :D
http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 05:19 PM
Why Not Have 3 Or 4 Levels Of Membership...?

Bronze- Min... With Limited Graphs Etc.. $25

Silver- More Graphics Etc $50

Premuim Gold... Best Graphics And Web Links ,email Address Etc...
That seems like a good idea. Different levels of cost for membership. Maybe for more money you can offer members more web space? Better games? I won't pretend to be an expert because I don't know enough about the web hosting industry. Maybe the staff already investigated those options. Just throwing some ideas out.

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 05:24 PM
Why Not Have 3 Or 4 Levels Of Membership...?

Bronze- Min... With Limited Graphs Etc.. $25

Silver- More Graphics Etc $50

Premuim Gold... Best Graphics And Web Links ,email Address Etc...

That is a good idea... in fact my girlfriend mentioned that this morning...
Something well worth considering if the logistics of it aren't too much of a problem! :cool:

CirclingWagons
06-21-2004, 05:25 PM
That is a good idea... in fact my girlfriend mentioned that this morning...
Something well worth considering if the logistics of it aren't too much of a problem! :cool:
Of course it's a good idea...BZ already does it :cool:

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 05:28 PM
Of course it's a good idea...BZ already does it :cool:


:rolleyes2:

So... in other words.... BillsZone solicits the help of the members also?

CirclingWagons
06-21-2004, 05:31 PM
:rolleyes2:

So... in other words.... BillsZone solicits the help of the members also?
i never said i was against it... pretty much every site needs outside support

WharfRat
06-21-2004, 05:32 PM
i never said i was against it... pretty much every site needs outside support


:lol: I never said you said you were... :hmmm: Just bringing home a point. ;)

Surferosa
06-21-2004, 05:39 PM
I know this sentiment has been reitterated by 954 and others, but this thread really rubbed me the wrong way.

Gram,

In the past, Ive been firmly in your corner and supported your "crusades" to make this board a better place. However, the tone of the posts in this thread are quite frankly tactless and offensive. You have no right to lambast others for not paying membership. Its obnoxious and unbecoming of patrons of this site.

87, please try and be a bit more persuasive and a bit less argumentative in future posts on this subject. I know youre taking this whole episode quite seriously, but there are better ways to handle situations such as these.

Muck AJ and others - I appreciate your candor (as always) dealing with site issues with the utmost dignity. :)

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 05:40 PM
Ok, so maybe it was harsh, and I apologize if I made any of you who can't afford it feel bad.

But, the nice thing just wasn't working.

By the way, I am going to purchase two premium memberships to give to two members who can't afford it. I am also going to give away a pair of real Dolphins Jersey pants, authentic Riddell helmet, and an autographed Marino 8x10 to the next three Premium Memberships renewed, or first timers.

It will be first come first serve on selecting the item you want, and AJ will let me know who was first, second and last. No matter what position you come in at, you are getting some great stuff here.

I am going to make a new post about this, so this is the scoop right here(buried in a six page thread). Everyone else in about 3 hours will have a new post to read.

GO!

Gram
Now THAT'S the way to get the masses excited about the project. :up:

Dolfan954
06-21-2004, 05:43 PM
I know this sentiment has been reitterated by 954 and others, but this thread really rubbed me the wrong way.

Gram,

In the past, Ive been firmly in your corner and supported your "crusades" to make this board a better place. However, the tone of the posts in this thread are quite frankly tactless and offensive. You have no right to lambast others for not paying membership. Its obnoxious and unbecoming of patrons of this site.

87, please try and be a bit more persuasive and a bit less argumentative in future posts on this subject. I know youre taking this whole episode quite seriously, but there are better ways to handle situations such as these.

Muck AJ and others - I appreciate your candor (as always) dealing with site issues with the utmost dignity. :)
Thank you. That was my only point from the beginning.

dolfanreal69
06-21-2004, 05:45 PM
I would pay if there were more pics of the cheerleaders. Maybe some of them would give you guys some free photo ops to support the site.

Phin-o-rama
06-21-2004, 06:13 PM
i thought about donating but it is alot of money...i would do 25 bucks........also i agree with the band thing...i buy the cd's of the bands i really like ...like bad religion

dolphindan1970
06-21-2004, 06:17 PM
AJ,Muck,Dolfan87 and other Admins on this site , first of all, let me say, this is a great site, and I appreciate you guys and the work all of you do. I am an ADMIN on a basketball site for the Kentucky Wildcats, and I know it keeps one busy. Also guys, I want you to know, I wish I could afford the Premmy membership, but I cant right now, however, I can afford somewhere between $15 and $25, and somewhere around the middle of next week, I will gladly send you guys what I can . I read alot here, but due to my admin duties at the other site, just dont have alot of extra posting time, but I try to all I can. Good Luck guys, I hope my donation will help somewhat, as I will be glad to do so. Thanks again for all you guys do, been a Dolphin follower since 1970, and love the Imformation and reports that you guys put out !!! ........................................... One more thing, AJ, I hope you dont put your stuff on E-Bay also ! Come on guys, just do what you can, a $1, $2, $5, !), their not forcing you to contribute, but a caring person would want to help out these guys for all they provide and try to do !

Surferosa
06-21-2004, 06:27 PM
Also wanted to add this for all the single guys out there that are NOT married and cannot appreciate the finer aspects of the word "compromise":

Many familes (such as mine) have budgetary considerations that are determined by both husband and wife. And as far as Mrs Surfer is concerned, I am already spending too much money on cable sports packages, Fantasy football leagues, poker games with the guys, NCAA tournament brackets, etc. Its not always a quesition of cost, but principal - she often reminds me that our money can be spent in a more productive manner that benefits the entire family. And as much as I hate to admit it, shes right.

Needless to say, its not always comfortable trying to justify spending money on leisure activities that are not shared by both members of a family/relationship. ESEPCIALLY when it comes to sports. AND Internet Sites. And this is coming from a guy, who in good times, is able to afford $84 a year for internet site memberships (Being out of work for six months means now is not one of those times :( ).

Hope you all understand. I'd like to think that I'll become a member of this site in the near future (depends on the job hunt), however, please understand that there are other issues to consider as well (that were overlooked in the original thread topic).

Thats all I wanted to say about that.

TeeMoney
06-21-2004, 06:42 PM
Is there a link for the E-Bay stuff? I think that is a great way to raise money. Plus, you are selling Dolphin stuff to get money to support Dolphin Stuff, what goes around comes around.

VanDolPhan
06-21-2004, 06:51 PM
Didn't realize Finheaven was getting hit hard again. I'll see what I can scrape up next pay (get paid every 2 months).

As someone whose been surfing since the early 90's I've seen a lot of good sites die off. In fact content on the internet is really at an all time low as greed and governments stick their noses where it isn't wanted. These kind of sites are rare and if any of you think that there would be a replacement for this site if it folded all I have to say to you is "get real". You'd have a better chance of being struck by lightning. If you got $5-10 to spare then spare it. Don't sit here and tell me you can't afford it when your sitting at Starbucks this morning sucking down on a $5 coffee.

I myself probably won't go out to restaurants for a couple weeks and give that cash over to Finheaven when I get paid. Unless your under 19 living at home I don't see how anyone couldn't afford even $2 just to show your appreciation...cause every dollar helps when running a non profit site.

Finfan80
06-21-2004, 07:36 PM
It's not about what's free and what's not free. It's about supporting something important to you. I download music like the next guy. But if I like a band, I go out and buy their CD to support them. It's just the principle of it. Doesn't make me better or worse than anyone else. Just something I like to do. As for this board, I give hundreds of dollars and many hours of my time. Last year I lost my job. But I donated as much as I could (after all, this site kept me sane. :rofl: ). Just something I like to support. :)



Not true. This site cost next to nothing when Gram and A.J. started it. It was very, very small. Now it's not small anymore. And it ain't cheap. People complain when the site is slow. They complain when the site goes down. Well, keeping the site fast and stable costs a lot of money. Two years ago, the site nearly shut down. That's when we finally starting accepting Premium Members.



Question: Why do people automatically feel like we're going to ban them from the site, and then throw down that ultimatum?? Why get hostile like that?? We're not forcing anybody to pay for anything. Believe me, it KILLS us to have to ask for money. And the goal is to make the site pay for itself (without any member having to give a dime). And we've made great progress towards that. But we're not there yet. We're just a few young guys running a site. Most of whom are college students. So you can understand what the cash flow is like. :lol:

ESPN, the Herald, etc. has paid employees. They're in business to make a profit. We gladly do this for free and will never make a profit. That never has been and never will be our goal. We do not and will not profit from our membership or this site. Premium Members know this, as they are privy to our bottom line. We just want the site to remain on the net in an enjoyable state.



Andrew was about 14 when he started this site. Can't knock them for not forseeing his little site becoming the biggest out there.

If you want to give $1, great. There's a donation button at the top of the screen (well, there was. :smackhead In the meantime, use xiidaen's link). We appreciate ANYTHING we receive. And we'll put an award for donating (a star) under your screenname. So it will be seen and everyone will know you donated.

Again, the site will always remain free to all. And we're working towards creating a self-sustaining entity. Right now, we just need a little help.

Thank you to all who have donated and to all who visit this great site. We appreciate you all. :)

Cool, I'll def pitch in something. Have to admit I did not know how this board was financed, who started it, or anything else...but ALSO have to say, I had never heard of premium membership or what the benefits were. $85 is a little steep for a membership, I wholly agree with those who said lowering the cost to $25 would being lots of members and greatly increase the amount raised. Maybe some kind of advertising of Premium Membership and what you get with it would be cool, too. I def want to keep the site vibrant and running and in the black, I'm grateful to the guys who started the site and put lots of time and energy into running it, and I feel strongly that we should all pitch in and contribute.

That being said, I do think the message that started this thread was out of line. How can you be so angry at everyone when probably most of us had no idea what the situation was? A much better approach would have been: "Hey guys, there's a situation we should talk about..." etc etc. I guarantee a post like that would have generated a lot of positive responses

Justasportsfan
06-21-2004, 07:48 PM
:rolleyes2:

So... in other words.... BillsZone solicits the help of the members also?yes they do.

dolfan87
06-21-2004, 07:55 PM
I know this sentiment has been reitterated by 954 and others, but this thread really rubbed me the wrong way.

Gram,

In the past, Ive been firmly in your corner and supported your "crusades" to make this board a better place. However, the tone of the posts in this thread are quite frankly tactless and offensive. You have no right to lambast others for not paying membership. Its obnoxious and unbecoming of patrons of this site.

87, please try and be a bit more persuasive and a bit less argumentative in future posts on this subject. I know youre taking this whole episode quite seriously, but there are better ways to handle situations such as these.

Muck AJ and others - I appreciate your candor (as always) dealing with site issues with the utmost dignity. :)


Surferosa,

I said what I felt needed to be said. Sorry you disagree with my tact, but that's just how I feel, and I am not going to hide it just to stop from offending some people.

I find the lack of help offensive, so I guess we are even.

Gram

dolfan87
06-21-2004, 08:02 PM
FinFan80,

There has been a post stuck to the top of the this board for quite some time, regarding this very issue.

I guess maybe that post just didn't stand out enough.

87

Muck
06-21-2004, 10:59 PM
Cool, I'll def pitch in something. Have to admit I did not know how this board was financed, who started it, or anything else...but ALSO have to say, I had never heard of premium membership or what the benefits were. $85 is a little steep for a membership, I wholly agree with those who said lowering the cost to $25 would being lots of members and greatly increase the amount raised. Maybe some kind of advertising of Premium Membership and what you get with it would be cool, too. I def want to keep the site vibrant and running and in the black, I'm grateful to the guys who started the site and put lots of time and energy into running it, and I feel strongly that we should all pitch in and contribute.

Thank you very much man. We appreciate the help and the kind words. :)

Goodness I can't wait for training camp!!

Fresh
06-21-2004, 11:53 PM
CO84 and I had this discussion already, he and I have had such discussions before, and have always come to an understanding. I'm sure he's of the same mind I am... we're not angry with each other, just debating. Calling me (or anyone else) out for having that discussion is a little presumptuous on your part, don't you think?

That's basically how I look at it. It's nothing personal, ya know what I'm saying? I wasn't going to respond to this post originally, but the tones of some of you(not to call out or offend anybody) were what got my attention, but it's all good. I'm probably gonna donate some $ at the end of this week or next and I'll pitch in every now or then. Like I said, it wasn't the money that got to me really, it was just the original tone of the post, like 954 said.

WharfRat
06-22-2004, 12:56 AM
That's basically how I look at it. It's nothing personal, ya know what I'm saying? I wasn't going to respond to this post originally, but the tones of some of you(not to call out or offend anybody) were what got my attention, but it's all good. I'm probably gonna donate some $ at the end of this week or next and I'll pitch in every now or then. Like I said, it wasn't the money that got to me really, it was just the original tone of the post, like 954 said.


:hi5:

Clumpy
06-22-2004, 01:30 AM
:roflmao:

Between you, CW, and Clump, I'm almost starting to not hate Bills fans anymore...or not. :barf:


I feel the love :D

Clumpy
06-22-2004, 01:34 AM
I donate because I respect what AJ, et al have done here. Message board communities are important to many people. Hopefully, more people will understand what this site provides and contribute whatever they can. Plain and simple.

Muck
06-22-2004, 09:01 AM
Not only does he donate, but Clumpy does a kickass salary cap page to boot. Check ours and you'll see what I mean.

CrunchTime
07-19-2004, 04:16 PM
Most people cannot afford to shell out for "Inside Info" sites.However there is a small segment of fans who can and 84 dlrs to them is just a drop of the bucket.So its not really a bad idea to charge this amount as long as the member base is large enough.It seems that you are gradually getting to that base to where you will be able to finance yourselfs.Charging 99 cents as has been suggested would require infrastructure and increase overhead costs.

Perhaps a solution is to offer what credit cards do.Platinum,Gold,Silver etc...donor memberships according to the amounts that can be afforded.

MOULDSROCKS
07-19-2004, 07:50 PM
i thought about donating but it is alot of money...i would do 25 bucks........also i agree with the band thing...i buy the cd's of the bands i really like ...like bad religion
you listen to bad religion and support Bush?


what is wrong with you?

Phin-o-rama
07-20-2004, 05:18 PM
you listen to bad religion and support Bush?


what is wrong with you?


nothing....i like their music. i like their lyrics but i do not look to music for my political views...period. i like alot of punk rock and right now im a bit disenchanted with the whole thing due to the new compilation cd entitled "rock against bush" which features many of the bands i like going on and on about their views on political issues. i just wish they'd stfu and play music.

take the band guttermouth for instance. their newest album "eat your face" has a track on it called "party of two"....basically they are ripping on all these bands that have jumped on the political bandwagon against bush when 1 year ago all they cared about was surfboard wax and drugs.


anyways like i said i don't look to music for my political views yet i enjoy bad religions style and greg graffins voice. ive seen them live several times too and they rock

P4E
07-21-2004, 01:31 AM
<------- similarly conflicted

Favorite band of past 25 years: The Clash

Party of Choice: Republican

Not a big fan of Geo. Bush, but the thought of John Kerry and the people he'd surround himself with in office terrifies me.

But why are you all here reading my babbling? You should be CONTRIBUTING TO FINHEAVEN.:)

WharfRat
07-21-2004, 08:01 AM
<------- similarly conflicted

Favorite band of past 25 years: The Clash

Party of Choice: Republican

Not a big fan of Geo. Bush, but the thought of John Kerry and the people he'd surround himself with in office terrifies me.

But why are you all here reading my babbling? You should be CONTRIBUTING TO FINHEAVEN.:)


:yeahthat:

Add me to that list...

A "Republican Deadhead" sounds slightly oximoronic, does it not? :goof:

CirclingWagons
07-22-2004, 01:40 AM
Bad Religion and The Clash are both insane...
<--listening to "Rudie Can't Fail" as we post

Samphin
07-22-2004, 02:23 AM
Samphin really likes Bad Religion. I had the opportunity to see them with Less Than Jake and Hot Water Music a few years back and took it. No a big fan of the Ska music, but Samphin can definately get into a little Link 80 every now and then. Bands such as:

Bad Religion, NOFX, A.F.I., Clash, as well as many other great punk bands have always held political views within their songs. Heck, even gutter punkrockers Rancid have some very anti-repulican, anti-establishment songs. The fact is, most of the musicians would make the same music whether Bush, or Kerry were in office. They know that no matter who is in office, pitting your music against them generally will tap a nerve with some part of the population somewhere and sell records.

Everyone listen to Pennywise and Slipknot on occasion too. Samphin listens to the them before braving the terrible horrendous traffic in the San Francisco Bay Area.

CirclingWagons
07-22-2004, 03:32 PM
Samphin really likes Bad Religion. I had the opportunity to see them with Less Than Jake and Hot Water Music a few years back and took it. No a big fan of the Ska music, but Samphin can definately get into a little Link 80 every now and then. Bands such as:

Bad Religion, NOFX, A.F.I., Clash, as well as many other great punk bands have always held political views within their songs. Heck, even gutter punkrockers Rancid have some very anti-repulican, anti-establishment songs. The fact is, most of the musicians would make the same music whether Bush, or Kerry were in office. They know that no matter who is in office, pitting your music against them generally will tap a nerve with some part of the population somewhere and sell records.

Everyone listen to Pennywise and Slipknot on occasion too. Samphin listens to the them before braving the terrible horrendous traffic in the San Francisco Bay Area.
throw in Planet Smashers, Pietasters, Ozomatli, and Johnny Socko :)